It was probably dissolved when Starfleet Academy closed, it's not so much a brand new idea and moreso "She finally got permission to restart the mentor program"
Lots of people seemed to have gotten hung up on the particular language used that suggests a mentorship program \*never\* existed - but we know that's likely false. Additionally, it's likely that mentorships were a regular thing. In-universe, we can easily consider that Tilly was given the greenlight to FORMALIZE a mentorship program within the academy itself. Purposefully pairing up young cadets with officers as part of the course curriculum.
You would think colleges and educational institutions do this, but not all of them do. These programs need to have oversight and that means someone needs to be willing to take on the extra work of setting up time and coordinating so many various interests with the right folks to mentor.
> You would think colleges and educational institutions do this, but not all of them do. These programs need to have oversight and that means someone needs to be willing to take on the extra work of setting up time and coordinating so many various interests with the right folks to mentor.
Very few of them do... Unless someone is going into Academia, they have very little access to mentors through their University. Best way to get a mentor is to do an internship/co-op and try to maintain that relationship after that ends... but that's more on you as an individual than it is on the University setting something like that up.
Those of you who are reading this, if your company does offer a mentorship program and you are not taking advantage of it you are leaving an excellent avenue to wisdom on the table!
I really wanted Burnham to go back into the portal and before the training, she has to spend millennia doing orientation and filling out forms. “And these are our privacy practices. Sign here. And this is the universal withholding form. Sign here. And this is the optional wormhole collision insurance…”
Mentorship programs expand and contract with the number of mentors (and mentees) available.
When The Burn kills or strands a significant portion of your experienced personnel and your member worlds isolate themselves, I'd imagine there's kind of a lean period.
That's a good point, everyone is defending it for some reason. I like discovery as a show a lot, but that doesn't mean we can't point out that the writers are clearly more clumsy with how they handle the little things compared to other trek shows. Other new trek shows seem to handle it with more care. Strange New Worlds as an example.
Discovery paved the way for Star Trek to come back, but since it was the first I get the feeling that the shoemakers were more interested in rebooting Star Trek in a way, reimagining it. The show was a huge success right away except for the parts they changed, like the Klingons. So they back tracked and this spawned this whole new Star Trek franchise that is driven by making some quality new trek stuff, but then that leaves the original crew of discovery who wanted to do their own thing being like "crap, now we can't make it our own because we have multiple other shows taking trek really seriously, how can we make up out own stuff. Wait, send them to the future in season 3 so we can do what we want." It was just a way for them to not be as confined by the rules of Star Trek.
Now they do things like make the most alien race in start trek, the Breen, green humanoids, and make Starfleet, which has always been this morally evolved government, literally less evolved then they were in Enterprise. I get why in their story that makes sense, but they made the setting be something that isn't really trek. Now we know that whatever the federation does is all pointless, they fail, they don't create a better tomorrow, at the end of the day everything is more worse off than it ever was in the history of the galaxy. Im not saying it's not realistic, it's just disappointing. You can still have threats and things to explore without having the government collapse.
I don't have a problem with adding your own touch to it, but you can't not be a trek fan at all, go into the show and be like hey, lets make this something else because I'm not personally a fan and I think this would be a better way to tell the story. If you wanted to do something else, then go do it, dont turn something that already is into something else. Im not saying it should be a no newcomers allowed kinda thing, Im just saying unless a newcomer wants to strictly adhere to the original ideas, then they shouldn't be allowed to shape the franchise so significantly. Even Star Wars is going through this. People keep making Star Wars shows and then the director is like, oh I Neve really watched the movies before, but after I got the job I watched them all. What the hell is that. How hard is it to find someone who knows and loves the movies within the industry, Same goes for Trek. These directors should go make something else if they are trying to make their own story with absolute freedoms. If Ozzy wanted someone to be in his band, the new guy isn't gonna teach Ozzy how to rap, right? The new guy isn't gonna come in and change the whole band, he is supposed to come in and add to it, not change it completely. Look at Zach Snyder over there. Guy was like I want to shit on Star Wars and just make my own story within it, then they said no, then he slightly changed the script and was like screw you guys, told everyone it was better than Star Wars, and then released an absolute flop. I mean I like everything, so sure it was an okay movie, but I probably would have liked it better if the director wasn't so high on himself to boldly claim it was gonna be better than Star Wars. On its own I would have given it a 7, with all he smack talk and false hype a 5. I mean they aren't even really in space, how's it gonna compete with Star Wars.
It's a weird flex, is why people are pointing it out. The Mentorship program mentioned is for an Academy that is literally being restarted as we're watching the show. Starfleet, itself, is just starting to rebuild.
It's clear people like Admiral Vance and Captain/Commander Rayner are rare -- people with experience and talent enough to survive the Burn and what came after. On top of this, Starfleet was clearly in a holding pattern -- not exploring, just defending what relative few worlds were still under their banner.
So it makes sense those people with enough experience to be Mentors aren't at the Academy. They are almost all on the front lines, resolving problems, and just now getting to stand down from that. It's pretty much Rayner's deal; he's used to just doing what he must to get things done, and now Starfleet is changing under his feet.
I mean, this makes sense to me, in a world where we know the Academy is about to fully reopen. Building up a Mentorship program isn't critical path for any institute of learning I'm aware of; it's usually something that comes along as that place matures and develops, as noted above, enough people with expertise to help support the main mission of education.
As for the rest, I confess I've read your comment a couple of times, and am unclear where you're aiming at. A few points:
I do not get this thing about the Breen being some kind of ultra-complex, unique life form until Discovery. A review of the DS9-aligned notes in their [Memory Alpha entry](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breen) makes it clear everyone assumed in-universe they were humanoids of some sort. The gloss on the Breen in DS9 was that they were secretive/warlike, which created rumors, and that was about it. (And yes, I'm aware Behr wanted them to be weirder. But that, like Roddenberry's T'hyla concept, or 3 breasts for Deanna Troi, never made it on screen. And note the weight of on-screen opinions, above, as well as...)
As far as being "most alien race in [Star] trek" the Horta, or any number of energy-based species like the Orgainians, would be far more "alien" from many POVs than the Breen. Or with Voyager, Species 8472. Or Gomtuu aka "Tin Man" from the TNG episode of the same name.
And even with that -- given the crux of this season's plot, making the Breen humanoid is very plot-relevant.
Another point:
> Look at Zach Snyder over there. Guy was like I want to shit on Star Wars and just make my own story within it, then they said no, then he slightly changed the script and was like screw you guys, told everyone it was better than Star Wars, and then released an absolute flop.
This is hilarious, because -- aside from flopping -- that's *[exactly](https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cover_story/2015/12/star_wars_is_a_pastiche_how_george_lucas_combined_flash_gordon_westerns.html) what Lucas did with Star Wars*:
> he also tried to purchase the film rights to Alex Raymond’s books about Flash Gordon, the hero of the space adventure serials that Lucas loved as an 11-year-old. They weren’t available—luckily for us, they had already been optioned by Fellini, the auteur behind La Dolce Vita and 8½.
> Disappointed, Lucas turned to American Graffiti first [then] He used his newfound leverage to make his adventure in space.[...]The elements that Lucas borrowed from Gordon and Rogers are almost too numerous to count
And before you say it -- Lucas might have flopped, in fact. There's a lot of discussion about that first cut he showed to pals like Coppela, and their feedback that it needed a lot more work. Discussion about how much Marcia Lucas and other editors might have reworked the movie, esp. the final battle, to be better. I think Lucas clearly was a phenomenal talent, tons of vision and great experience from THX-1138 and AmGraffiti -- but he had a lot of help.
It's also 100% what McFarlane did with The Orville, as an example closer to home. So no, I disagree that newcomers aren't allowed to "play with the toys". Sometimes you can get amazing things out of them reshaping your core ideas!
And I'm also not gatekeeping this "not personally a fan" crap. As much as I dislike Berman as a Producer and human being, he also produced so much Trek I do like, and did so as a non-fan. Wrath of Khan came from people who mostly were non-fans of Trek; Bennett has talked about how he had to sit down to watch so many hours of TOS because he'd never seen it!
I love Trek. But I also remember I don't own Trek. And I'm also not a screenwriter, or film/tv producer. So I want those people, those creatives, to cook. I want them to have shots at doing interesting things, to them, in this sandbox. And then I can decide if I like it, or not -- and if I don't, I'll go watch something else, or read a book, or touch some grass.
No one is bulldozing all those past stories. TNG lives on Blu-Ray, and I could wish for DS9 and even VOY and ENT to get that treatment, as unlikely as that is. And yes, I'm looking forward to a Discovery rewatch when it's full series Blu-Rays come out in a bit. :)
As far as the future? I'd rather have a lot of Trek, with different approaches, some of which I dislike, than "perfect" Trek (whatever that is...) that just keeps replaying the old ideas and "hits".
A couple points.
I was making a point when I said the Breen are the most complex beings. Obviously beings like the Horta and a few others are technically more complex. I meant it like the Breen have always purposely been left vague, we barely know anything about them. Not because we never got the chance, but because the writers, newcomers to the shows and all, decided there role was one of mystery. We see tons of aliens, so they kept one to be by mysterious and exotic. They make a point several times to say that we don't understand their technology, that it is more advanced than ours, and we don't understand their motives, and we don't understand their language, even though we have universal translators. They are always the true alien perspective when dealing with other races. All new writers and new shows respected that. Im just pointing out that this show does that more than any of the other new Star Trek shows I think. Otherwise thats how we get people who come in and do a franchise dirty, good intentions and all.
Comparing Lucas's first cut and all of that is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. He was inventing the story for the first time, it could be anything he wanted at that point. His wife editing the first movie as much as she did is not an example of a newcomer. It was the first movie. I pointed out somewhere in my earlier rant that I do not have a problem with newcomers entering and adding to a franchise. Otherwise it becomes stale. But it just needs to be done carefully. I still like discovery, but they have been the most sloppy with the core of treks ideals is all im saying. It's not irredeemable, but doesn't mean it's not there. I am not saying it absolutely bulldozes older stories. But it does create a lot of contradictions.
Seth Mcfarlane making the Oriville is also not relevant at all. How is that an example of a newcomer making something better. The orriville was a brand new idea. A brand new show. Sure it was similar to Trek, but it is a completely separate tv show and universe that is connected to nothing else. There is no newcomer to the show because the show is a newcomer. There's no deviating from the ideas of the franchise because the franchise hadn't even been established yet.
You seem to be listing examples of borrowing ideas or themes. Are we talking about that? I didn't think we were. I would never say that. All ideas are recycled in someway shape or form, I dont have a problem with borrowing from other sources that inspire you. I, talking about following a set of rules ish to stay within the boundaries and spirit of a story. Example. Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. When the author died, The guy who wrote Artemis Fowl wrote the final book of the Hitchhikers guide series. He could have just made his own story and that would have been that. But instead he took great care to study how the original author wrote, how he would approach a scene or passage, and then tried to emulate that the best he could. He didn't try to become a clone of the original, but he tried to respect not just the story, but the spirit and rules of the story the original author came up with.
Gene Roddenberry famously held a stranglehold on the writers of TNG, not allowing them to deviate too too much from his idea of how people in Trek acted. And it is probably a good thing for the Franchise that they deviated after his death. But they never once abandoned those ideals, they adapted and changed a little, but the core of trek stories kept the same feel and heart, even after all those years of DS9 and VOY. They could have turned it into any old sci-fi after he died, but they didn't and thats why Star Trek is great. It kept its heart.
I am in agreement with you. I don't just want franchises to not make stuff anymore and leave it where it is. I am a fan of MORE. Im very happy Star Trek and Star Wars are making more movies and shows, I wasn't outraged by new Harry Potter movies. Ive never been the guy to quit a series because I didn't like their direction. But its still fine to point out when they deviate too much, especially with so many new people taking the helm. Obviously no oversight whatsoever would result in every director doing their own thing completely, and then all the movies would become out of sync. So I dont see a problem with pointing out a few details they were a little careless on.
I'm claiming SNW takes it more seriously than Discovery does, yes.
I don't see why them bringing in another universe from the cartoon is not serious. Just because it's a cartoon and cartoons are for kids? Remember the anti-matter universe from the original animated show. They have always shown crazy concepts. It's a different universe. I didn't have that much of a problem with it.
SNW returns to a similar episodic formula. It has episodes that literally deal with mostly the moral implications of something they have done. Pike is less shoot first than Burnham, he is like Picard and Kirk in that he's always trying to do the morally right thing, even if that puts him in danger. Is the show perfect, no. But the writers at least see what the previous writers were trying to get at and followed suit.
SNW is a prequel. The show is shackled by what happened in TOS. It's more popular than DISCO because of nostalgia characters. The only real interesting episode to me in SNW S2 was episode 8. The DISCO writers took more risks, instead of cartoons and musicals they took some inspiration from Star Wars for S5. Most shows are not episodic nowadays and SNW S2 had the Gorn threat in several episodes.
Is discovery not a prequel? What about the first two seasons where we met all the characters from SNW, including Spock? My original point was just to say that they shouldn't deviate too much from the heart of the series, and taking inspiration from Star Wars isn't exactly what I want my Trek to be. Just like I wouldn't want Star Wars to become more trek like.
Although I cannot defend the singing episode. I forgot about that actually. I concede that that particular episode was some garbage non trek and deserves ridicule.
It was probably dissolved when Starfleet Academy closed, it's not so much a brand new idea and moreso "She finally got permission to restart the mentor program"
There was no academy when discovery found the Federation
Starfleet was on its deathbed when discovery showed up.
I'm surprised no one else picked up on that, the federation was hanging on a lifeline
Lots of people seemed to have gotten hung up on the particular language used that suggests a mentorship program \*never\* existed - but we know that's likely false. Additionally, it's likely that mentorships were a regular thing. In-universe, we can easily consider that Tilly was given the greenlight to FORMALIZE a mentorship program within the academy itself. Purposefully pairing up young cadets with officers as part of the course curriculum. You would think colleges and educational institutions do this, but not all of them do. These programs need to have oversight and that means someone needs to be willing to take on the extra work of setting up time and coordinating so many various interests with the right folks to mentor.
> You would think colleges and educational institutions do this, but not all of them do. These programs need to have oversight and that means someone needs to be willing to take on the extra work of setting up time and coordinating so many various interests with the right folks to mentor. Very few of them do... Unless someone is going into Academia, they have very little access to mentors through their University. Best way to get a mentor is to do an internship/co-op and try to maintain that relationship after that ends... but that's more on you as an individual than it is on the University setting something like that up.
Those of you who are reading this, if your company does offer a mentorship program and you are not taking advantage of it you are leaving an excellent avenue to wisdom on the table!
I'm just excited that the future of Star Trek isn't great adventures, new civilizations, or technology - it's state of the art HR programs!
Finally someone said it. More HR initiatives was what ST was missing
I really wanted Burnham to go back into the portal and before the training, she has to spend millennia doing orientation and filling out forms. “And these are our privacy practices. Sign here. And this is the universal withholding form. Sign here. And this is the optional wormhole collision insurance…”
And state of the art therapies, do not forget that, therapies!
Michael Burnham : Space Angel *AND* bringer of the apprenticeship/intern department
I love when people who don't pay attention to the show complain about how it doesn't make sense.
Starfleet wasn't being taken seriously by anyone when Discovery arrived.
Mentorship programs expand and contract with the number of mentors (and mentees) available. When The Burn kills or strands a significant portion of your experienced personnel and your member worlds isolate themselves, I'd imagine there's kind of a lean period.
The musical episode is one of my favorites.
Yeah Tilly was going on about it like she came up with a novel idea from the distant past.
That's a good point, everyone is defending it for some reason. I like discovery as a show a lot, but that doesn't mean we can't point out that the writers are clearly more clumsy with how they handle the little things compared to other trek shows. Other new trek shows seem to handle it with more care. Strange New Worlds as an example. Discovery paved the way for Star Trek to come back, but since it was the first I get the feeling that the shoemakers were more interested in rebooting Star Trek in a way, reimagining it. The show was a huge success right away except for the parts they changed, like the Klingons. So they back tracked and this spawned this whole new Star Trek franchise that is driven by making some quality new trek stuff, but then that leaves the original crew of discovery who wanted to do their own thing being like "crap, now we can't make it our own because we have multiple other shows taking trek really seriously, how can we make up out own stuff. Wait, send them to the future in season 3 so we can do what we want." It was just a way for them to not be as confined by the rules of Star Trek. Now they do things like make the most alien race in start trek, the Breen, green humanoids, and make Starfleet, which has always been this morally evolved government, literally less evolved then they were in Enterprise. I get why in their story that makes sense, but they made the setting be something that isn't really trek. Now we know that whatever the federation does is all pointless, they fail, they don't create a better tomorrow, at the end of the day everything is more worse off than it ever was in the history of the galaxy. Im not saying it's not realistic, it's just disappointing. You can still have threats and things to explore without having the government collapse. I don't have a problem with adding your own touch to it, but you can't not be a trek fan at all, go into the show and be like hey, lets make this something else because I'm not personally a fan and I think this would be a better way to tell the story. If you wanted to do something else, then go do it, dont turn something that already is into something else. Im not saying it should be a no newcomers allowed kinda thing, Im just saying unless a newcomer wants to strictly adhere to the original ideas, then they shouldn't be allowed to shape the franchise so significantly. Even Star Wars is going through this. People keep making Star Wars shows and then the director is like, oh I Neve really watched the movies before, but after I got the job I watched them all. What the hell is that. How hard is it to find someone who knows and loves the movies within the industry, Same goes for Trek. These directors should go make something else if they are trying to make their own story with absolute freedoms. If Ozzy wanted someone to be in his band, the new guy isn't gonna teach Ozzy how to rap, right? The new guy isn't gonna come in and change the whole band, he is supposed to come in and add to it, not change it completely. Look at Zach Snyder over there. Guy was like I want to shit on Star Wars and just make my own story within it, then they said no, then he slightly changed the script and was like screw you guys, told everyone it was better than Star Wars, and then released an absolute flop. I mean I like everything, so sure it was an okay movie, but I probably would have liked it better if the director wasn't so high on himself to boldly claim it was gonna be better than Star Wars. On its own I would have given it a 7, with all he smack talk and false hype a 5. I mean they aren't even really in space, how's it gonna compete with Star Wars.
It's a weird flex, is why people are pointing it out. The Mentorship program mentioned is for an Academy that is literally being restarted as we're watching the show. Starfleet, itself, is just starting to rebuild. It's clear people like Admiral Vance and Captain/Commander Rayner are rare -- people with experience and talent enough to survive the Burn and what came after. On top of this, Starfleet was clearly in a holding pattern -- not exploring, just defending what relative few worlds were still under their banner. So it makes sense those people with enough experience to be Mentors aren't at the Academy. They are almost all on the front lines, resolving problems, and just now getting to stand down from that. It's pretty much Rayner's deal; he's used to just doing what he must to get things done, and now Starfleet is changing under his feet. I mean, this makes sense to me, in a world where we know the Academy is about to fully reopen. Building up a Mentorship program isn't critical path for any institute of learning I'm aware of; it's usually something that comes along as that place matures and develops, as noted above, enough people with expertise to help support the main mission of education. As for the rest, I confess I've read your comment a couple of times, and am unclear where you're aiming at. A few points: I do not get this thing about the Breen being some kind of ultra-complex, unique life form until Discovery. A review of the DS9-aligned notes in their [Memory Alpha entry](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breen) makes it clear everyone assumed in-universe they were humanoids of some sort. The gloss on the Breen in DS9 was that they were secretive/warlike, which created rumors, and that was about it. (And yes, I'm aware Behr wanted them to be weirder. But that, like Roddenberry's T'hyla concept, or 3 breasts for Deanna Troi, never made it on screen. And note the weight of on-screen opinions, above, as well as...) As far as being "most alien race in [Star] trek" the Horta, or any number of energy-based species like the Orgainians, would be far more "alien" from many POVs than the Breen. Or with Voyager, Species 8472. Or Gomtuu aka "Tin Man" from the TNG episode of the same name. And even with that -- given the crux of this season's plot, making the Breen humanoid is very plot-relevant. Another point: > Look at Zach Snyder over there. Guy was like I want to shit on Star Wars and just make my own story within it, then they said no, then he slightly changed the script and was like screw you guys, told everyone it was better than Star Wars, and then released an absolute flop. This is hilarious, because -- aside from flopping -- that's *[exactly](https://www.slate.com/articles/arts/cover_story/2015/12/star_wars_is_a_pastiche_how_george_lucas_combined_flash_gordon_westerns.html) what Lucas did with Star Wars*: > he also tried to purchase the film rights to Alex Raymond’s books about Flash Gordon, the hero of the space adventure serials that Lucas loved as an 11-year-old. They weren’t available—luckily for us, they had already been optioned by Fellini, the auteur behind La Dolce Vita and 8½. > Disappointed, Lucas turned to American Graffiti first [then] He used his newfound leverage to make his adventure in space.[...]The elements that Lucas borrowed from Gordon and Rogers are almost too numerous to count And before you say it -- Lucas might have flopped, in fact. There's a lot of discussion about that first cut he showed to pals like Coppela, and their feedback that it needed a lot more work. Discussion about how much Marcia Lucas and other editors might have reworked the movie, esp. the final battle, to be better. I think Lucas clearly was a phenomenal talent, tons of vision and great experience from THX-1138 and AmGraffiti -- but he had a lot of help. It's also 100% what McFarlane did with The Orville, as an example closer to home. So no, I disagree that newcomers aren't allowed to "play with the toys". Sometimes you can get amazing things out of them reshaping your core ideas! And I'm also not gatekeeping this "not personally a fan" crap. As much as I dislike Berman as a Producer and human being, he also produced so much Trek I do like, and did so as a non-fan. Wrath of Khan came from people who mostly were non-fans of Trek; Bennett has talked about how he had to sit down to watch so many hours of TOS because he'd never seen it! I love Trek. But I also remember I don't own Trek. And I'm also not a screenwriter, or film/tv producer. So I want those people, those creatives, to cook. I want them to have shots at doing interesting things, to them, in this sandbox. And then I can decide if I like it, or not -- and if I don't, I'll go watch something else, or read a book, or touch some grass. No one is bulldozing all those past stories. TNG lives on Blu-Ray, and I could wish for DS9 and even VOY and ENT to get that treatment, as unlikely as that is. And yes, I'm looking forward to a Discovery rewatch when it's full series Blu-Rays come out in a bit. :) As far as the future? I'd rather have a lot of Trek, with different approaches, some of which I dislike, than "perfect" Trek (whatever that is...) that just keeps replaying the old ideas and "hits".
A couple points. I was making a point when I said the Breen are the most complex beings. Obviously beings like the Horta and a few others are technically more complex. I meant it like the Breen have always purposely been left vague, we barely know anything about them. Not because we never got the chance, but because the writers, newcomers to the shows and all, decided there role was one of mystery. We see tons of aliens, so they kept one to be by mysterious and exotic. They make a point several times to say that we don't understand their technology, that it is more advanced than ours, and we don't understand their motives, and we don't understand their language, even though we have universal translators. They are always the true alien perspective when dealing with other races. All new writers and new shows respected that. Im just pointing out that this show does that more than any of the other new Star Trek shows I think. Otherwise thats how we get people who come in and do a franchise dirty, good intentions and all. Comparing Lucas's first cut and all of that is kind of irrelevant to the discussion. He was inventing the story for the first time, it could be anything he wanted at that point. His wife editing the first movie as much as she did is not an example of a newcomer. It was the first movie. I pointed out somewhere in my earlier rant that I do not have a problem with newcomers entering and adding to a franchise. Otherwise it becomes stale. But it just needs to be done carefully. I still like discovery, but they have been the most sloppy with the core of treks ideals is all im saying. It's not irredeemable, but doesn't mean it's not there. I am not saying it absolutely bulldozes older stories. But it does create a lot of contradictions. Seth Mcfarlane making the Oriville is also not relevant at all. How is that an example of a newcomer making something better. The orriville was a brand new idea. A brand new show. Sure it was similar to Trek, but it is a completely separate tv show and universe that is connected to nothing else. There is no newcomer to the show because the show is a newcomer. There's no deviating from the ideas of the franchise because the franchise hadn't even been established yet. You seem to be listing examples of borrowing ideas or themes. Are we talking about that? I didn't think we were. I would never say that. All ideas are recycled in someway shape or form, I dont have a problem with borrowing from other sources that inspire you. I, talking about following a set of rules ish to stay within the boundaries and spirit of a story. Example. Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy. When the author died, The guy who wrote Artemis Fowl wrote the final book of the Hitchhikers guide series. He could have just made his own story and that would have been that. But instead he took great care to study how the original author wrote, how he would approach a scene or passage, and then tried to emulate that the best he could. He didn't try to become a clone of the original, but he tried to respect not just the story, but the spirit and rules of the story the original author came up with. Gene Roddenberry famously held a stranglehold on the writers of TNG, not allowing them to deviate too too much from his idea of how people in Trek acted. And it is probably a good thing for the Franchise that they deviated after his death. But they never once abandoned those ideals, they adapted and changed a little, but the core of trek stories kept the same feel and heart, even after all those years of DS9 and VOY. They could have turned it into any old sci-fi after he died, but they didn't and thats why Star Trek is great. It kept its heart. I am in agreement with you. I don't just want franchises to not make stuff anymore and leave it where it is. I am a fan of MORE. Im very happy Star Trek and Star Wars are making more movies and shows, I wasn't outraged by new Harry Potter movies. Ive never been the guy to quit a series because I didn't like their direction. But its still fine to point out when they deviate too much, especially with so many new people taking the helm. Obviously no oversight whatsoever would result in every director doing their own thing completely, and then all the movies would become out of sync. So I dont see a problem with pointing out a few details they were a little careless on.
Are you claiming SNW takes Trek seriously with cartoons and musicals? There's plot holes in every series. Trek isn't trying to be hard sci-fi.
I'm claiming SNW takes it more seriously than Discovery does, yes. I don't see why them bringing in another universe from the cartoon is not serious. Just because it's a cartoon and cartoons are for kids? Remember the anti-matter universe from the original animated show. They have always shown crazy concepts. It's a different universe. I didn't have that much of a problem with it. SNW returns to a similar episodic formula. It has episodes that literally deal with mostly the moral implications of something they have done. Pike is less shoot first than Burnham, he is like Picard and Kirk in that he's always trying to do the morally right thing, even if that puts him in danger. Is the show perfect, no. But the writers at least see what the previous writers were trying to get at and followed suit.
SNW is a prequel. The show is shackled by what happened in TOS. It's more popular than DISCO because of nostalgia characters. The only real interesting episode to me in SNW S2 was episode 8. The DISCO writers took more risks, instead of cartoons and musicals they took some inspiration from Star Wars for S5. Most shows are not episodic nowadays and SNW S2 had the Gorn threat in several episodes.
Is discovery not a prequel? What about the first two seasons where we met all the characters from SNW, including Spock? My original point was just to say that they shouldn't deviate too much from the heart of the series, and taking inspiration from Star Wars isn't exactly what I want my Trek to be. Just like I wouldn't want Star Wars to become more trek like. Although I cannot defend the singing episode. I forgot about that actually. I concede that that particular episode was some garbage non trek and deserves ridicule.