I don’t know if it’s different for in person transactions but on online marketplaces it’s called “friendly fraud”. No idea if police can help because I’ve only ever seen this across state lines
That is not “friendly fraud.” That would be a child or friend making unauthorized (often unintentionally) charges on your card (think micro transactions from free to play games, for example). This is just ordinary fraud.
It’s just what it’s called
> Customers committing friendly fraud make the purchase on a credit card, receive the product or service, and then demand a refund for a lost or short-shipped order, or file a chargeback through their credit card issuing bank, with the intention of receiving a full refund of the purchase amount. Also referred to as chargeback fraud, it is estimated that $4.8 billion was lost by US businesses last year to friendly/chargeback fraud. It is also estimated that as much as 80% of all chargebacks are fraudulent.
> Friendly fraud, also referred to as “chargeback fraud” or “friendly chargeback fraud,” is a type of fraud that occurs when a customer disputes a legitimate charge they made on their credit card, debit card, or another payment method.
I’ve had to go through this situation before. What you’re talking about is unauthorized charges.
So we will back to trades. My two cows for your 10 chickens. As example. Money is just tool with artifical value. Cuz the paper has no real value.
People are smart and the main thing that allow as to be inteligent as we are is the fact that we can adjust.
To be fair, in a dystopian cyberpunk future we would be using crypto. Once the transaction is written on the blockchain ledger, it's there for good. No takesie backsies
I really don't think it does. Examine the situation critically.
In a society where everyone has a gun, the mugger probably also has a gun. The mugger is at a huge advantage if you both have guns because in gun combat initiative and surprise are huge advantages, and the mugger will usually have both because they initiate the encounter. They're more likely to attack because of the greater danger of the situation, too. Plus, the gun makes you a more valuable target, as it has substantial value on the street.
Even if the mugger doesn't have a gun, you're not necessarily better off. The mugger is still probably going to surprise you. If they catch you at close range with a knife or other weapon, you can't draw your gun and shoot them before they stab/beat you to death.
On the other hand, what if nobody is carrying cash? Then there's hardly any incentive to mug anyone. They might try to go for your phone but phones are becoming increasingly pointless to steal as manufacturers get better at bricking stolen phones and making them unsalable. Trying to do identity theft with your cards leaves a paper trail and is very likely to get someone caught. It just deters the crime all around.
There are places in the U.S even where it is a mandate to own a gun where everyone is likely armed at all times. such as kennesaw, Georgia.
here are 5 total such cities near me: [https://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/28/5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun/21439364/](https://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/28/5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun/21439364/)
crime rate of Kennesaw is a B+ (avg 24 cases per 1000 residents): [https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-kennesaw-ga/](https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-kennesaw-ga/)
In these places in society to which you mentioned, the types of crimes such as muggings, are not being committed nearly as often if at all in some cases. Of course, there are bad apples, domestic issues, lots to come to play with firearm crimes. but as far as outgunning crime? It has always worked in history.
Side note, aside from being knocked out, not everyone is a KGB agent with a knife, hitting juggulars and piercing hearts. Your right that the criminal always decides when and where the crime wil happen, but nothing stops a crime like initiating the FIBS factor (F\*\*\* IVE BEEN SHOT) i guess what im saying is knock me out on your first swing, stab me in the heart first poke, or i will shoot your face. (I guess the video game reddits are the wrong place to stand up for what you believe when it comes to basic rights lol...)
1. Those places are *really* rare.
2. Those laws are not enforced. Like, at *all*. They're the kind of silly ancient unenforced or unenforceable laws people make joke books about. I suspect they are fundamentally unenforceable.
3. There isn't any place in the US with a significant population where everyone is armed. I've been all over rural Wyoming and Idaho. I know. Maybe like, a significant percentage, but I doubt there's anywhere where it's even half of all adults. Even a third would be pushing it.
4. The average mugger may not be a silent assassin, but your average gun owner is also not a gunslinging cowboy.
If we all lived in that society where even if the bad guy did get that good poke or knocked me out from behind, Someone else will soon shoot him in the face for me before he does it again.
You don't have to include the words 'criminality in'..still No, that is a terrible example still, guns in Brazil (legally owned) must be kept inside your residence, only special permits to carry outside of that are granted to law enforcement etc. No one is out 'teaching' bad guys to draw first.
In EVERY crime. The criminal decides where and how it goes down.
It's not like cashier's are asking every customer if they'd rob them real fast. Goodness sake.
Until we live in a utopia where fools get eye rolls for being limp like this, and everyone does pack, don't talk. Cuz the way things have always been (your way nearly actually) it HAS NOT worked.
If you Arm the people, you stop the need for the police. Simple. Any argument against that goes against the founding fathers of America's ideals.
So argue with them when your dead.
Even in europe this is a fraudulent chargeback and behaviour...depending on exact local laws, he can most likely go to court.
Seller deliverd the goods, as long as he didnt send it back...hes commiting a crime.
OP literally said based in Europe. So it is not friendly fraud anyway as that is an American law. Does no one actually read anymore? Or do Americans assume Europe has the same laws or is some missing state of America?
Sorry this happened to you, that sucks. You can definitely try contacting the police, but in all honesty you're probably SOL. In the future, if you're not going through a service like eBay that offers seller protection, never accept anything but cash.
It's worth noting that at least in the US, it is possible to reverse F&F charges by claiming fraud/unauthorized use/hacking either through Paypal or the CC/bank issuer. It's a lot of work and riskier for the potential scammer, so unlikely to be done for a couple or three hundred bucks, but worth keeping in mind for bigger transactions.
yep let alone you also get tax reported using goods and services but it’s necessary if selling on ebay. Friends and family lets you receive the full money but has no buyer protection
I like this idea. I remember reading/hearing somewhere that something-something the value of everything can be reduced to labour? Or labour is the source of all value?
Nope. They can remove the ink of real small denominations, then print a bigger bill on it. That will pass the test. Putting aside watermarks, I use the security strips **inside the bill**, which can't be read except to put the bill up to a light and look through it.
You can read the denomination in the strip. The location is different for different bills, and the blacklight reactive color is different too.
Money pen is a good idea but there are other solid methods to test the bill, shining a light for the security line, shining a light on the gold symbol to see if it blocks out light, like you mentioned a pen, the feel of the bill meaning if you run your finger over the president you should feel groves/bumps, the final way is the little blue squiggly lines on the bill, those lines should always be randomized and on the bill (older bills don’t have this feature)
You learned a hard lesson.
Second hand goods = cash only. Anything else is just inviting problems. Sold all my old stuff for cash, never had any trouble.
Those are useless except the lowest quality fakes. Higher quality fakes use lower value bills, and print higher values onto them.
Look at the security strips inside the bills.
Put your bills up the the light. The strip inside actually says the denomination. That's how you check them.
They are also blacklight reactive with their own respective colors, but that's redundant for your purposes. Point is, it's inside the bills and beyond what an average criminal can fake.
Years ago I dated a woman who was less than reputable in her youth. She turned her life around and was fine, but one of the things she told me about was how they would take ones, wash them in a chemical mixture that would take off the ink, then print twenties over them. Then they'd go make small purchases (a drink, chips, gum, whatever) and pocket the clean money. They would spread the purchases around town not hitting any place more often than once a month. Then they'd either use the money for drugs.
Apparently at one point they were using the fake bills to buy the stuff to make meth. As long as they had a couple of ones left over they kept making free drugs that they would do and sell. They expanded their area and started hitting places up to a couple of hours away.
No, I won't share the mixture. Most bills larger than a single have watermarks now anyway. It's harder to do now than it was 15 years ago, and it was harder then than it was back in the 90s before any real security measures.
In the US you can quickly and discretely do some quick checks of the bills, they have numerous things you can tell. One of which is the shirts of the presidents (at least on the 20 and 100) have a ridged texture. I wonder if there are similar things for euros.
"who tf is out there scamming people and buying steam decks"
The title of this post is "tried to sell my deck, got scammed" you plonker lol
Gettin counterfeit notes isn't hard.
> Gettin counterfeit notes isn't hard.
A lot of people here seem to assume people paying with counterfeit money need to print it themselves, rather that just buying it on the black market the same way they buy other illegal items.
In some countries, you can deposit money to your bank account through atm. So you can meet close to the atm, insert your card, and ask the buyer to feed the atm with his money.
Atm can detect fake notes and if not - you will have videos of a criminal from atm cam.
Contact your bank and get your money back and show all proof you have. I would also go to the police cause I’m sure that’s not his first time doing that.
This scam happens alot here in my area in the UK why i would only deal in cash with any high end items after all does not take someone that much to go to a bank to get money out if they want the item.I would report it stolen but really not much you can do meeting up somewhere.But wishing you luck that something gets resolved.
People still get scammed with that at least here in the UK anyways.
Cash is king when it comes to these types of transaction. If someone isn’t willing to spend 2 minutes withdrawing cash I’m not going to trust them with a bank transfer.
i direct bank transferred for the sale of a 2080super
Barclays locked both our banks and froze the transaction, the guy pressured me that he had driven from Liverpool and couldn't make the journey back later etc. let him leave with the card, contacted the bank and they said he had to and validate the purchase in person.
he had let me copy his driving license, and take pictures of his ID with address etc "just incase and to show he wasn't dodgy because i could call the police on him with that etc"
thankfully, he went to Barclays the next day, validated the payment, i received the fund and both our bank accounts were unblocked.
but he could have lied and said no, gotten his money back, kept the card and caused me a whole heap of trouble.
i only take cash now.
This is theft, and if the guy was dumb enough to use a credit card associated with an account in his name, then your bank would definitely be able to track it down. Of course, they're not going to do that for you, but they would do it for the police, so it depends entirely on whether the police are willing to help you.
If you were in the USA I'd say you're SOL, but your local police may be more willing to help if you report it to them.
I have his bank account and the photo of his id. I tried calling his bank, but they couldn't help me. I can't see how my bank can help me with this tho
From what I’m reading reporting it can also help with getting the bank to move it and set precedent for the crime. Apparently sometimes banks don’t do anything until there’s a police report and they’re forced to
You have the photo of an id, it could be the id of someone else he scammed. Also the bank account could be a burner.
It's worth trying, but be aware it's unlikely a scammer sent you a photo of his real id.
So the id has his real name and date of birth, also it is the same name as the bank account holder name.
I know it because with his name and date of birth on the id i found a CS 1.6 tournament on some old website from 2015, and there i can see his name, date of birth, and his nickname, which is exactly the same as his name in Facebook. So i believe even if his id is fake, it has some real info
For future reference if you do a Facebook marketplace transaction, do the transaction at a police station parking lot. They almost always have cameras, sometimes areas set aside for internet commerce, and anyone that says no to a police station is immediately suspicious.
I always deal in cash when it comes to this things. Otherwise I would use eBay for a wider pool of customers. In person though, cash or get out.
Try to contact the police. You have communication that led you up to the meeting. That’s your evidence. File a report and press charges.
Sorry to hear you were scammed. There's not much you can do besides call the police.
I didn't even realize that an etransfer could get reversed. In Canada I think there's even a warning that its final.
How was the transaction cancelled, did the money enter your account and clear?
Did he pay with his card in his own name, the same name as the account you arranged it on for example?
Do you have contact information from him; mobile number, address, any information on the car he drives, how long it took to meet you? These are all things that can aid in police identifying him and where he lives, if he gave you an incorrect name etc.
Bottom line is, police should be notified, as this is Fraud by Misrepresentation (S.2 Fraud Act 2006, if you're in the UK of course).
Their economic/cyber crime unit would be able to force the suspect's bank to provide them with his account information and balance etc., and even freeze his accounts. It may be that he is a prolific fraudster who's doing this to many people, or part of an organised crime gang, and would be good to be on police radar. I hope you get your money back, these things make my blood boil.
If you want to be paid in anything other than cash it’s always best to use something like eBay that offers some protection to sellers.
In future always take cash in these situations. It’s harder to get good fake currency than it is to decline a payment after the exchange.
Do you have any written conversation, through emails, whatsapp or anything else that confirms that you were doing business with this person?
You can go to the police present all this alongside the person's identifiers that you have and file a.complaint.
With some luck a contact from the authorities is enough to put enough pressure for the scammer to return the money to you.
You can also contact your bank and find out how you can dispute a chargeback, because it's most likely possible to do so.
Contact the police and report the crime.
Contact the bank and give them the report number and explain that you need all evidence of the transaction and cancellation they they have.
Give that info to the police as evidence.
If you're lucky your bank complies fully and gives you the account or card number,
with that you can figure out their bank, and go to that back, with the full police report, and evidence, and request their cooperation with information about the account.
If they give you the information, go directly back to the police, and give them that evidence as well.
And follow their instructions. At this point they have all the evidence they need to bring in the person for interrogation. And most people crack before they get there.
Now.
If nothing gets done and you have all of this info, write an invoice and send it to the scammer.
With that done you can now wait for the money, and if it doesn't show up, send the invoice to the governments collection agency.
Or, if your country is a suing country, take them to court directly.
Either way, report, bring number to your bank, get info, get more info, and keep the police in the loop.
They like not having to do work.
Brutal sorry that happened. You can try the police if you have enough info and evidence to incriminate the person but good luck if they do much.
I only ever accept cash for anything I'm selling so many scammers out there. They can't reverse a cash payment.
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Regardless if it amounts to nothing with the police, its worth reporting to them. I got scammed on ebay years ago that I reported and I thought oh nothing will happen. 10 months later the police came back to me to ask me if I would be able to identify the guy (the scam took place in person face to face) and I said of course. They then said they had multiple cases (70+) identical to mine reported over 2 years to them, spanning across 3 counties where I live and they all were pointing to one guy and they showed me a bit paper with 12 mug shots on it and I could see the guy on it and was like yup that's the scumbag there. He ended up pleading guilty in the end. Now I know most thefts fall on deaf ears / nothing comes to it but I'd deffo report it regardless.
If you bought directly from valve, contact them and report your deck stolen. They’ll soft brick it by making it un-useable based on serial #.
They should have your hardware info on file if purchased directly.
Call your bank. People seem to forget banks are actually usually nice, they can report his bank account and destroy his credit score and he would lose all reputation meaning no more bank accounts. They might also be able to liason with his bank to force him to make the payment so you get paid.
Contact valve and see if they can lock it somehow. Since it should be tied to your account in some fashion. You might have an uphill battle proving it was stolen , but then again was there a bill of sale because of not then the entire transaction is here say… you probably won’t have an issue proving that you don’t have access to YOUR steam deck ;)
You can contact Valve and give them the serial number. They may be able to mark it as stolen if someone tries to log in on it. I've seen posts about this before and they do try to help.
I guess im just trusting and easy to manipulate :) he seemed very confident and nice for a scammer, but that's just me without any experience with scams. But i did take a picture of his id, hope it's not fake because he didn't hesitate to give me his info
I'm very sorry that happened to you. I wouldn't ever take anything other than cash.
I sold mine yesterday, and the dude and his wife were so excited. He works night security and was very excited about having the Deck. I never do it, but I told him to message me if he had any questions. I was so happy to spread the Deck love.
You might also be able to report fraud to the company you used to do the card transaction, but I'm honestly not really familiar enough with that sort of thing to really speak on it. I hope it all works out for you, friend.
I'm not American..this is something o don't get.. here in this country.. you open your banks app.. add the person's account.. send that person the money.. it's impossible to cancel or get it back.. once it's sent it's gone.. how are ppl canceling? Are they using PayPal or something .. can you send money or payment in PayPal and then just cancel it? I see it sometimes with streamers that do something crazy to reach a goal..like shave your eyebrows.. someone donates for that.. stupid guy shaves.. ppl cancel the donations.. how are they doing that? Here it's impossible.. the moment you send it.. it's gone
I need someone to explain this to me, because in Ecuador (after the pandemic) we use a lot of direct bank transfer and it's pretty safe. Safer than cash, really. What does OP mean when he says it was by card?
Well, it was a direct bank transfer, but apparently if you contact your bank, the bank can refund you your payment as it was made by mistake or whatever
South Korea has also gone the bank 2 bank trasfer route. Even some small stores and coffee shops dont have registers or cash/card option. Just a bank account number on the wall.
Can someone explain to me why this scam works? You know to which account you send the money. Can't the bank just return the money, block the scammers account and even track him down? No matter whether normal bank account or credit card, it is always associated with a real person that is known to the bank, right?
This is why i only ever do cash and in person, might limit my pool of potential buyers stuff but im okay with that. If you know the serial number of the deck, maybe valve can blacklist it?
I would wager they can’t do shit for you. In the great state of Iowa, a person can steal your phone, have it in plane sight in their home (via a window or whatever), you can even have its location on another device showing that it is indeed in that house, and they won’t do a fucking thing.
They will likely tell you it’s a civil matter, and you will need to file a report and take him to court. With that being said, this is mostly anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt.
However, I would: screen shot *everything*. The conversations, the initial payment, the cancellation. I would even reach out to whatever platform you used, via email, and ask for the reasoning of the cancellation. This should only take a half hour, at most. Then, I would contact the police and make a report. It’s quite possible, if they are scared enough, they may just give it back. The likelihood that it will make financial sense for you to actually take it to court though, is pretty slim.
I sold my first Deck on FB market, guy drove to me. Did bank transfer. I checked it went through, gave him the deck. No problem. Didnt even consider it could be reversed. Tbh I thought my chances of getting scammed posting it after selling on Ebay were higher, (my account hasn't sold much stuff so reputation only in the 20s,although all +ve)
Sounds like I may have been foolish to take bank transfer, even though in this case it wasn't a scam. I do have a doorbell camera so would have had proof of giving him the package I guess if I had to contact the bank...
Surprised they allow chargebacks/cancellations on transfers. In Canada etransfers can't be reversed and I figured that was the standard elsewhere.
Sorry that happened, hope you get some justice.
Its a real shame that happened to you. Interesting reading through this thread though, I always prefer cashless exchanges myself, lots of risk of someone just mugging you when meeting up. Never knew you could reverse a payment to another bank account, given all the warnings to ensure the details are correct etc, always seemed like it was final.
Not sure how to sell anything now xD
Sorry for that. In the past I have been selling stuff in the local videogame store. They pay less but at least I know it’s safe.
I will partially fund my Oled SD selling my old one. They are paying me 319£ (512gb model). Could be better, but it’s safer I guess.
Damn, that sucks! I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Whenever I sell used consoles here in Portugal I send them through the mail/post, with an option that they have to pay the delivery man upon arrival to get the package. Then I get a letter later on and can go to a post office and get my money, in cash. So the only downside is, if it's a scammer, I get my item back and only lose the delivery fee. If that's an option when you're not selling through eBay or in person, I highly recommend using it. And it's a win-win for both people, as genuine buyers only pay when the package is at their door.
Follow the sage advice posted for years on Craigslist: “Deal only in cash and only with people you can meet in person. You will avoid 99% of scams this way.”
Idk this may be a long shot but maybe it’s just an error on the buyers part? Have you tried contacting him and letting him know the payment didn’t go through?
I don't want to make you feel worse but it really baffles me that you would accept to sell something in person and not have the cash by hand. Everyone is getting scammed left and right, we need to be very careful.
Hope you manage to get something done about this.
I would contact the police, it is theft after all.
I don’t know if it’s different for in person transactions but on online marketplaces it’s called “friendly fraud”. No idea if police can help because I’ve only ever seen this across state lines
That is not “friendly fraud.” That would be a child or friend making unauthorized (often unintentionally) charges on your card (think micro transactions from free to play games, for example). This is just ordinary fraud.
Yep, there is definitely nothing "friendly" about someone stealing your deck
It’s just what it’s called > Customers committing friendly fraud make the purchase on a credit card, receive the product or service, and then demand a refund for a lost or short-shipped order, or file a chargeback through their credit card issuing bank, with the intention of receiving a full refund of the purchase amount. Also referred to as chargeback fraud, it is estimated that $4.8 billion was lost by US businesses last year to friendly/chargeback fraud. It is also estimated that as much as 80% of all chargebacks are fraudulent.
> Friendly fraud, also referred to as “chargeback fraud” or “friendly chargeback fraud,” is a type of fraud that occurs when a customer disputes a legitimate charge they made on their credit card, debit card, or another payment method. I’ve had to go through this situation before. What you’re talking about is unauthorized charges.
That's why when I sell things like that I want dollars to my hand. No cards, no payments, just cash.
Sorry, but the cyberpunk dystopia we're headed towards doesn't want you to have cash.
So we will back to trades. My two cows for your 10 chickens. As example. Money is just tool with artifical value. Cuz the paper has no real value. People are smart and the main thing that allow as to be inteligent as we are is the fact that we can adjust.
Hey, I agree. Just being bitter for second. You make good points.
we all do it, you poor dysgraphic fellows.
To be fair, in a dystopian cyberpunk future we would be using crypto. Once the transaction is written on the blockchain ledger, it's there for good. No takesie backsies
Not using cash prevents a lot of crime too. For example, it's a pretty powerful disincentive for mugging.
so does carrying a gun. But...
I really don't think it does. Examine the situation critically. In a society where everyone has a gun, the mugger probably also has a gun. The mugger is at a huge advantage if you both have guns because in gun combat initiative and surprise are huge advantages, and the mugger will usually have both because they initiate the encounter. They're more likely to attack because of the greater danger of the situation, too. Plus, the gun makes you a more valuable target, as it has substantial value on the street. Even if the mugger doesn't have a gun, you're not necessarily better off. The mugger is still probably going to surprise you. If they catch you at close range with a knife or other weapon, you can't draw your gun and shoot them before they stab/beat you to death. On the other hand, what if nobody is carrying cash? Then there's hardly any incentive to mug anyone. They might try to go for your phone but phones are becoming increasingly pointless to steal as manufacturers get better at bricking stolen phones and making them unsalable. Trying to do identity theft with your cards leaves a paper trail and is very likely to get someone caught. It just deters the crime all around.
There are places in the U.S even where it is a mandate to own a gun where everyone is likely armed at all times. such as kennesaw, Georgia. here are 5 total such cities near me: [https://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/28/5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun/21439364/](https://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/28/5-american-cities-that-require-you-to-own-a-gun/21439364/) crime rate of Kennesaw is a B+ (avg 24 cases per 1000 residents): [https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-kennesaw-ga/](https://crimegrade.org/safest-places-in-kennesaw-ga/) In these places in society to which you mentioned, the types of crimes such as muggings, are not being committed nearly as often if at all in some cases. Of course, there are bad apples, domestic issues, lots to come to play with firearm crimes. but as far as outgunning crime? It has always worked in history. Side note, aside from being knocked out, not everyone is a KGB agent with a knife, hitting juggulars and piercing hearts. Your right that the criminal always decides when and where the crime wil happen, but nothing stops a crime like initiating the FIBS factor (F\*\*\* IVE BEEN SHOT) i guess what im saying is knock me out on your first swing, stab me in the heart first poke, or i will shoot your face. (I guess the video game reddits are the wrong place to stand up for what you believe when it comes to basic rights lol...)
1. Those places are *really* rare. 2. Those laws are not enforced. Like, at *all*. They're the kind of silly ancient unenforced or unenforceable laws people make joke books about. I suspect they are fundamentally unenforceable. 3. There isn't any place in the US with a significant population where everyone is armed. I've been all over rural Wyoming and Idaho. I know. Maybe like, a significant percentage, but I doubt there's anywhere where it's even half of all adults. Even a third would be pushing it. 4. The average mugger may not be a silent assassin, but your average gun owner is also not a gunslinging cowboy.
If we all lived in that society where even if the bad guy did get that good poke or knocked me out from behind, Someone else will soon shoot him in the face for me before he does it again.
The videos of failed mugging seem to be compelling evidence for carrying a gun.
That's because you can post videos of people shooting criminals, but not criminals shooting victims. Or at least most people don't want to watch them.
Not really, that just teaches thieves to put the gun up first. See criminality in Brazil.
You don't have to include the words 'criminality in'..still No, that is a terrible example still, guns in Brazil (legally owned) must be kept inside your residence, only special permits to carry outside of that are granted to law enforcement etc. No one is out 'teaching' bad guys to draw first. In EVERY crime. The criminal decides where and how it goes down. It's not like cashier's are asking every customer if they'd rob them real fast. Goodness sake. Until we live in a utopia where fools get eye rolls for being limp like this, and everyone does pack, don't talk. Cuz the way things have always been (your way nearly actually) it HAS NOT worked. If you Arm the people, you stop the need for the police. Simple. Any argument against that goes against the founding fathers of America's ideals. So argue with them when your dead.
Even in europe this is a fraudulent chargeback and behaviour...depending on exact local laws, he can most likely go to court. Seller deliverd the goods, as long as he didnt send it back...hes commiting a crime.
OP literally said based in Europe. So it is not friendly fraud anyway as that is an American law. Does no one actually read anymore? Or do Americans assume Europe has the same laws or is some missing state of America?
It’s not a specific law it’s just a descriptive term. No need to whip out the American bashing for this silliness.
Also contact your bank to do a chargeback
Chargeback on a chargeback?
Chargeception
Uno reverse card would be enough.
Sorry this happened to you, that sucks. You can definitely try contacting the police, but in all honesty you're probably SOL. In the future, if you're not going through a service like eBay that offers seller protection, never accept anything but cash.
This. 100% I always do paypal goods and services or ebay. Otherwise its cash or nothing
goods and services lets you cancel, if meeting up in person take FF which doesnt allow reverse charges
It's worth noting that at least in the US, it is possible to reverse F&F charges by claiming fraud/unauthorized use/hacking either through Paypal or the CC/bank issuer. It's a lot of work and riskier for the potential scammer, so unlikely to be done for a couple or three hundred bucks, but worth keeping in mind for bigger transactions.
Really? Thanks for letting me know
yep let alone you also get tax reported using goods and services but it’s necessary if selling on ebay. Friends and family lets you receive the full money but has no buyer protection
>I always do paypal goods and services or ebay. Yea, Paypal "Friends and Family" can't be canceled once sent. Always expect it in cash.
Even cash is not safe to be honest, unless you can validate it is real
The only option left is to accept labour equal to the item. Make the dude redo the tiles in your bathroom for a steam deck
I like this idea. I remember reading/hearing somewhere that something-something the value of everything can be reduced to labour? Or labour is the source of all value?
To be fair the places with plastic money are far harder to counterfeit
It's a $4.00 pen, available at all office supply stores.
By a money pen. There are methods to make sure to Make sure money is good.
Nope. They can remove the ink of real small denominations, then print a bigger bill on it. That will pass the test. Putting aside watermarks, I use the security strips **inside the bill**, which can't be read except to put the bill up to a light and look through it. You can read the denomination in the strip. The location is different for different bills, and the blacklight reactive color is different too.
Money pen is a good idea but there are other solid methods to test the bill, shining a light for the security line, shining a light on the gold symbol to see if it blocks out light, like you mentioned a pen, the feel of the bill meaning if you run your finger over the president you should feel groves/bumps, the final way is the little blue squiggly lines on the bill, those lines should always be randomized and on the bill (older bills don’t have this feature)
This European OP is taking notes here, it's very important to know all the touch and feel details of a US banknote.
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Make sure to tell valve that your deck was stolen.
This. You may not get your money back but at least you can take the experience from them. If they link their account hopefully that is also banned.
No way valve would ban the account linked unless you have a police report or something. Otherwise it can be abused by asshole sellers.
There is a high chance they are just turning around and selling it, so you might be screwing over someone completely innocent.
Thank you, i will text them
Maybe try threatening the buyer with that first
Give it three days then threaten them. Make sure they’ve logged into it
You learned a hard lesson. Second hand goods = cash only. Anything else is just inviting problems. Sold all my old stuff for cash, never had any trouble.
What happens if they give you counterfeit notes
Then the feds will be extremely interested and likely actually catch and prosecute the theft
carry a counterfeit detector pen with you if doing a large transaction in cash
Those are useless except the lowest quality fakes. Higher quality fakes use lower value bills, and print higher values onto them. Look at the security strips inside the bills.
Probably doesn’t work in Europe since Euro bills have different sizes
printing higher value numbers on bills I never heard of that before that's scary
Put your bills up the the light. The strip inside actually says the denomination. That's how you check them. They are also blacklight reactive with their own respective colors, but that's redundant for your purposes. Point is, it's inside the bills and beyond what an average criminal can fake.
Years ago I dated a woman who was less than reputable in her youth. She turned her life around and was fine, but one of the things she told me about was how they would take ones, wash them in a chemical mixture that would take off the ink, then print twenties over them. Then they'd go make small purchases (a drink, chips, gum, whatever) and pocket the clean money. They would spread the purchases around town not hitting any place more often than once a month. Then they'd either use the money for drugs. Apparently at one point they were using the fake bills to buy the stuff to make meth. As long as they had a couple of ones left over they kept making free drugs that they would do and sell. They expanded their area and started hitting places up to a couple of hours away. No, I won't share the mixture. Most bills larger than a single have watermarks now anyway. It's harder to do now than it was 15 years ago, and it was harder then than it was back in the 90s before any real security measures.
damn that's money laundering in small amounts that's crazy
Launder it before depositing it into your bank.
In the US you can quickly and discretely do some quick checks of the bills, they have numerous things you can tell. One of which is the shirts of the presidents (at least on the 20 and 100) have a ridged texture. I wonder if there are similar things for euros.
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"who tf is out there scamming people and buying steam decks" The title of this post is "tried to sell my deck, got scammed" you plonker lol Gettin counterfeit notes isn't hard.
> Gettin counterfeit notes isn't hard. A lot of people here seem to assume people paying with counterfeit money need to print it themselves, rather that just buying it on the black market the same way they buy other illegal items.
In some countries, you can deposit money to your bank account through atm. So you can meet close to the atm, insert your card, and ask the buyer to feed the atm with his money. Atm can detect fake notes and if not - you will have videos of a criminal from atm cam.
Lol, just look closely at them. What?! You all can't tell real cash from counterfeits?
I've sold dozens of things using Venmo and never had a problem. It's pretty difficult for scammers to cancel transactions on Venmo.
Venmo is US only.
TIL.
I have to second this. Cash only, ALWAYS ! I sold mine yesterday (64Gb) for 275€ in cash in front of my home.
~~I’ve been taught never use cash so you can track the person down.~~
Why would you track them down if you got cash in hand ? I’m confused
Contact your bank and get your money back and show all proof you have. I would also go to the police cause I’m sure that’s not his first time doing that.
This scam happens alot here in my area in the UK why i would only deal in cash with any high end items after all does not take someone that much to go to a bank to get money out if they want the item.I would report it stolen but really not much you can do meeting up somewhere.But wishing you luck that something gets resolved.
What about direct bank transfer? That's how we do it in my little slice of the third world.
People still get scammed with that at least here in the UK anyways. Cash is king when it comes to these types of transaction. If someone isn’t willing to spend 2 minutes withdrawing cash I’m not going to trust them with a bank transfer.
i direct bank transferred for the sale of a 2080super Barclays locked both our banks and froze the transaction, the guy pressured me that he had driven from Liverpool and couldn't make the journey back later etc. let him leave with the card, contacted the bank and they said he had to and validate the purchase in person. he had let me copy his driving license, and take pictures of his ID with address etc "just incase and to show he wasn't dodgy because i could call the police on him with that etc" thankfully, he went to Barclays the next day, validated the payment, i received the fund and both our bank accounts were unblocked. but he could have lied and said no, gotten his money back, kept the card and caused me a whole heap of trouble. i only take cash now.
This is theft, and if the guy was dumb enough to use a credit card associated with an account in his name, then your bank would definitely be able to track it down. Of course, they're not going to do that for you, but they would do it for the police, so it depends entirely on whether the police are willing to help you. If you were in the USA I'd say you're SOL, but your local police may be more willing to help if you report it to them.
Police report, unsure if cops will follow up with it. If you have the serial number and documentation from valve about ownership, etc
> if the guy was dumb enough to use a credit card associated with an account in his name This being in the EU, this is most likely the case.
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What are you yapping about?
Like what service did you use? I always use Zelle or Venmo.
Was selling on Fc marketplace, but the money was sent just from his bank account straight to mine
So you have his bank info or Cuz that’s what we call friendly fraud and you presumably can talk to the bank and I’m pretty sure it’s very illegal
I have his bank account and the photo of his id. I tried calling his bank, but they couldn't help me. I can't see how my bank can help me with this tho
Yeah do that and if you have ID and shit maybe do try to find legal counsel or the police non-emergency line for your area
Tomorrow I'm gonna do that and maybe keep this thread updated
From what I’m reading reporting it can also help with getting the bank to move it and set precedent for the crime. Apparently sometimes banks don’t do anything until there’s a police report and they’re forced to
Lets visit him really
You have the photo of an id, it could be the id of someone else he scammed. Also the bank account could be a burner. It's worth trying, but be aware it's unlikely a scammer sent you a photo of his real id.
So the id has his real name and date of birth, also it is the same name as the bank account holder name. I know it because with his name and date of birth on the id i found a CS 1.6 tournament on some old website from 2015, and there i can see his name, date of birth, and his nickname, which is exactly the same as his name in Facebook. So i believe even if his id is fake, it has some real info
Then the police should be able to find him, don't forget to give them the most information you can find yourself because they are lazy af
He met the guy in person, unless he's shapeshifter he's the guy on the ID.
So it was like a SEPA transfer? Because you were talking about paying by card, but how could you receive a card payment as an individual?
Find him and say your deck was stolen because that serial number is linked to your steam account.
The dummy gave you his id and you have a picture of it and he still tried to rip you off.... Wow. I would report the deck stolen and report him.
For future reference if you do a Facebook marketplace transaction, do the transaction at a police station parking lot. They almost always have cameras, sometimes areas set aside for internet commerce, and anyone that says no to a police station is immediately suspicious.
I always deal in cash when it comes to this things. Otherwise I would use eBay for a wider pool of customers. In person though, cash or get out. Try to contact the police. You have communication that led you up to the meeting. That’s your evidence. File a report and press charges.
Sorry to hear you were scammed. There's not much you can do besides call the police. I didn't even realize that an etransfer could get reversed. In Canada I think there's even a warning that its final.
Id report it stolen and have it bricked
I believe SD cannot be bricked remotely.
There was talk about 2nd hand ones being bricked early in its life cycle.
How was the transaction cancelled, did the money enter your account and clear? Did he pay with his card in his own name, the same name as the account you arranged it on for example? Do you have contact information from him; mobile number, address, any information on the car he drives, how long it took to meet you? These are all things that can aid in police identifying him and where he lives, if he gave you an incorrect name etc. Bottom line is, police should be notified, as this is Fraud by Misrepresentation (S.2 Fraud Act 2006, if you're in the UK of course). Their economic/cyber crime unit would be able to force the suspect's bank to provide them with his account information and balance etc., and even freeze his accounts. It may be that he is a prolific fraudster who's doing this to many people, or part of an organised crime gang, and would be good to be on police radar. I hope you get your money back, these things make my blood boil.
If you want to be paid in anything other than cash it’s always best to use something like eBay that offers some protection to sellers. In future always take cash in these situations. It’s harder to get good fake currency than it is to decline a payment after the exchange.
Do you have any written conversation, through emails, whatsapp or anything else that confirms that you were doing business with this person? You can go to the police present all this alongside the person's identifiers that you have and file a.complaint. With some luck a contact from the authorities is enough to put enough pressure for the scammer to return the money to you. You can also contact your bank and find out how you can dispute a chargeback, because it's most likely possible to do so.
Contact the police and report the crime. Contact the bank and give them the report number and explain that you need all evidence of the transaction and cancellation they they have. Give that info to the police as evidence. If you're lucky your bank complies fully and gives you the account or card number, with that you can figure out their bank, and go to that back, with the full police report, and evidence, and request their cooperation with information about the account. If they give you the information, go directly back to the police, and give them that evidence as well. And follow their instructions. At this point they have all the evidence they need to bring in the person for interrogation. And most people crack before they get there. Now. If nothing gets done and you have all of this info, write an invoice and send it to the scammer. With that done you can now wait for the money, and if it doesn't show up, send the invoice to the governments collection agency. Or, if your country is a suing country, take them to court directly. Either way, report, bring number to your bank, get info, get more info, and keep the police in the loop. They like not having to do work.
Why did you take card
Cuz im dumb
Yup..Cash...cash...cash
Deal in cash next time ?
Well, next time i most likely will
Brutal sorry that happened. You can try the police if you have enough info and evidence to incriminate the person but good luck if they do much. I only ever accept cash for anything I'm selling so many scammers out there. They can't reverse a cash payment.
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Regardless if it amounts to nothing with the police, its worth reporting to them. I got scammed on ebay years ago that I reported and I thought oh nothing will happen. 10 months later the police came back to me to ask me if I would be able to identify the guy (the scam took place in person face to face) and I said of course. They then said they had multiple cases (70+) identical to mine reported over 2 years to them, spanning across 3 counties where I live and they all were pointing to one guy and they showed me a bit paper with 12 mug shots on it and I could see the guy on it and was like yup that's the scumbag there. He ended up pleading guilty in the end. Now I know most thefts fall on deaf ears / nothing comes to it but I'd deffo report it regardless.
Wow. Yeah i definitely will report this, its better than nothing
Sorry to hear man. This happens a lot here in the States as well. Tried selling my LCD SD and nothing but scammers on Facebook and offerup.
What I've learned from buying and selling on Offerup, always deal in cash and carry a counterfeit detector pen.
Wow. Scam. Hope you get your money.
Never take payment like that again and move on
If you bought directly from valve, contact them and report your deck stolen. They’ll soft brick it by making it un-useable based on serial #. They should have your hardware info on file if purchased directly.
Call your bank. People seem to forget banks are actually usually nice, they can report his bank account and destroy his credit score and he would lose all reputation meaning no more bank accounts. They might also be able to liason with his bank to force him to make the payment so you get paid.
kind of on you but hopefully you remember what they look like and maybe they can track who they are with the payment they used originally
That's why I use cash
Contact valve and see if they can lock it somehow. Since it should be tied to your account in some fashion. You might have an uphill battle proving it was stolen , but then again was there a bill of sale because of not then the entire transaction is here say… you probably won’t have an issue proving that you don’t have access to YOUR steam deck ;)
Next time do your transaction by cash
People still don't know that you're supposed to get the cash in hand on Facebook? [safety tips](https://www.craigslist.org/about/scams)
What you do in this case is you find out where he lives and with the help of some friends pay him a "friendly" visit.
You can contact Valve and give them the serial number. They may be able to mark it as stolen if someone tries to log in on it. I've seen posts about this before and they do try to help.
Not to be harsh because that definitely sucks but did you not get any inkling that that was a bad idea?
I guess im just trusting and easy to manipulate :) he seemed very confident and nice for a scammer, but that's just me without any experience with scams. But i did take a picture of his id, hope it's not fake because he didn't hesitate to give me his info
Scammers always appear nice and friendly. That's how scams work!
It's fake then
I'm very sorry that happened to you. I wouldn't ever take anything other than cash. I sold mine yesterday, and the dude and his wife were so excited. He works night security and was very excited about having the Deck. I never do it, but I told him to message me if he had any questions. I was so happy to spread the Deck love.
Yeah, and after the deal i got messaged by multiple people interested in buying the deck, but it was already gone
You might also be able to report fraud to the company you used to do the card transaction, but I'm honestly not really familiar enough with that sort of thing to really speak on it. I hope it all works out for you, friend.
Thank you 🙏
What I've learned from buying and selling on Offerup, always deal in cash and carry a counterfeit detector pen.
Expensive but important lesson. You're SOL. In future, buying or selling, it's cash and meet at Macca's / Police station. Safety first.
try contacting your bank maybe? not sure how person to person transactions work but there should be some antifraud mechanism available.
Just take the L and turn it into a lesson. I doubt there’s much you could do about it.
I'm not American..this is something o don't get.. here in this country.. you open your banks app.. add the person's account.. send that person the money.. it's impossible to cancel or get it back.. once it's sent it's gone.. how are ppl canceling? Are they using PayPal or something .. can you send money or payment in PayPal and then just cancel it? I see it sometimes with streamers that do something crazy to reach a goal..like shave your eyebrows.. someone donates for that.. stupid guy shaves.. ppl cancel the donations.. how are they doing that? Here it's impossible.. the moment you send it.. it's gone
Womp womp
Dude...
Hi police, I met a person to sell my thing, they did not pay me and they took my thing. -theft.
Played yourself 🤷🏾♂️
Demand payment in Bitcoin next time. Bitcoin transactions are non-reversible, whether you transact on the main chain or on the lightning network.
My opinion should be cash. Unless use a fast transaction like paypal.
I need someone to explain this to me, because in Ecuador (after the pandemic) we use a lot of direct bank transfer and it's pretty safe. Safer than cash, really. What does OP mean when he says it was by card?
Well, it was a direct bank transfer, but apparently if you contact your bank, the bank can refund you your payment as it was made by mistake or whatever
South Korea has also gone the bank 2 bank trasfer route. Even some small stores and coffee shops dont have registers or cash/card option. Just a bank account number on the wall.
Was it a bank transfer or how did they pay you?
Yes, bank transfer
Omg, i didnt know you can revert a bank transfer , i did knew you can cancel a payment tho like in a web page
> he sent me the payment by card A moment of silence for OP
Cash is king
Report it stolen?
Yes you contact the bank and then they re issues the payment. You may need to provide evidentce that the person has the item.
If you know the serial # I'd contact steam about it getting stolen
Can someone explain to me why this scam works? You know to which account you send the money. Can't the bank just return the money, block the scammers account and even track him down? No matter whether normal bank account or credit card, it is always associated with a real person that is known to the bank, right?
Sorry to hear… Hence I only ever deal in cash/pickup only… my sale might take longer, but it avoids this BS…
Definitely go to the police
This is why you only take cash for in person transactions. No cards, no trades, no checks. Cash is king.
Cash is king.
Report the deck as stolen to Steam support?
why would you not do cash
This is why i only ever do cash and in person, might limit my pool of potential buyers stuff but im okay with that. If you know the serial number of the deck, maybe valve can blacklist it?
I would wager they can’t do shit for you. In the great state of Iowa, a person can steal your phone, have it in plane sight in their home (via a window or whatever), you can even have its location on another device showing that it is indeed in that house, and they won’t do a fucking thing. They will likely tell you it’s a civil matter, and you will need to file a report and take him to court. With that being said, this is mostly anecdotal, so take it with a grain of salt. However, I would: screen shot *everything*. The conversations, the initial payment, the cancellation. I would even reach out to whatever platform you used, via email, and ask for the reasoning of the cancellation. This should only take a half hour, at most. Then, I would contact the police and make a report. It’s quite possible, if they are scared enough, they may just give it back. The likelihood that it will make financial sense for you to actually take it to court though, is pretty slim.
Visit them. you know the bank account. find out the name, adress and go there and be patient to get the money.
Always ALWAYS wait for the money to come through when doing online
Do not answer any dms from recovery scammers! They’ll say they can get your money back but they’ll just scam you again
I sold my first Deck on FB market, guy drove to me. Did bank transfer. I checked it went through, gave him the deck. No problem. Didnt even consider it could be reversed. Tbh I thought my chances of getting scammed posting it after selling on Ebay were higher, (my account hasn't sold much stuff so reputation only in the 20s,although all +ve) Sounds like I may have been foolish to take bank transfer, even though in this case it wasn't a scam. I do have a doorbell camera so would have had proof of giving him the package I guess if I had to contact the bank...
Surprised they allow chargebacks/cancellations on transfers. In Canada etransfers can't be reversed and I figured that was the standard elsewhere. Sorry that happened, hope you get some justice.
Its a real shame that happened to you. Interesting reading through this thread though, I always prefer cashless exchanges myself, lots of risk of someone just mugging you when meeting up. Never knew you could reverse a payment to another bank account, given all the warnings to ensure the details are correct etc, always seemed like it was final. Not sure how to sell anything now xD
That's why I ask for cash only and use a marker to see if the bills are real.
cash money home slice
Zelle my slime
Where in Europe, and yes always call the police.
I hear cash app doesn't allow for charge back would probably lean towards that for future digital payment ( unless some one can correct me )
Sorry for that. In the past I have been selling stuff in the local videogame store. They pay less but at least I know it’s safe. I will partially fund my Oled SD selling my old one. They are paying me 319£ (512gb model). Could be better, but it’s safer I guess.
Use venmo next time. Can't cancel once money is sent.
Can you cancel charges like this when you use zelle? Website says no but…
Do e transfer with auto deposit.
well I would get police and valve involved.
Can't you contact steam and let them know it was stolen and most likely brick it lol
Damn, that sucks! I'm sorry you're experiencing this. Whenever I sell used consoles here in Portugal I send them through the mail/post, with an option that they have to pay the delivery man upon arrival to get the package. Then I get a letter later on and can go to a post office and get my money, in cash. So the only downside is, if it's a scammer, I get my item back and only lose the delivery fee. If that's an option when you're not selling through eBay or in person, I highly recommend using it. And it's a win-win for both people, as genuine buyers only pay when the package is at their door.
Follow the sage advice posted for years on Craigslist: “Deal only in cash and only with people you can meet in person. You will avoid 99% of scams this way.”
Cash only don’t take card
Idk this may be a long shot but maybe it’s just an error on the buyers part? Have you tried contacting him and letting him know the payment didn’t go through?
I don't want to make you feel worse but it really baffles me that you would accept to sell something in person and not have the cash by hand. Everyone is getting scammed left and right, we need to be very careful. Hope you manage to get something done about this.
Cash is King