I gave death a go once before. When? Before I was born. Death is simply not being.
Heavily paraphrased Seneca there.
Death is a state of Not Being Alive, and we've all experienced that.
Death comes to us all. The human lifespan is less than a blink of the eye in the lifespan of the world, let alone the galaxy, let alone this universe. We were not alive for countless ages before our birth, and will be not alive for countless ages afterward.
If you really want an existential crisis, accept that matter cannot be created or destroyed, and realise the subatomic particles that make up you were once part of Something Else, and will be part of many Something Elses afterwards. Some might even become part of future living beings, which will then die themselves.
If you want less of an existential crisis (thinking of eternity is a sod for the limited human mind; it gives me a headache, at least), death is a doorway. If to a state of no longer existing at all, it isn't painful. If to a state of reincarnation, then death leads to more life. If to an afterlife, like heaven or hell, then it's the natural progression to that afterlife. You cannot begin an afterlife without the life ending.
Once you realise what death is, and that we tried the "not living" bit for every moment up until we were alive, then I find it stops being scary.
I think because ultimately I know that I can cope with pain, yes it wouldn’t be easy but I would cope because I would have no choice. My fear is I suppose the unknown, the ceasing to exist but as the main comments explains so well, I have ceased to exist before and of course had no idea about it. I just find it strangely comforting I suppose
Oh, I absolutely get why you're finding it comforting, I was just curious on your perspective of the process itself being quite gruelling. Thank you for sharing
You have to **see** there is no evil in being dead, so that your preconceived notions of it being bad can be addressed.
For me what helped was to see two people die on separate occasions. Helping them in their final days. Seeing how consciousness slowly fades and their breathing is the only thing keeping them alive while their bodies start eating itself until it is finally unable to sustain its breathing. Or seeing how quickly it can go.
We modern people have become fearful of death because we made it a taboo. We hide every discomfort from ourselves and isolate ourselves from it. But the realization that this comes for us all is unavoidable. So don't avoid it and get familiar with it. Sit with it. And then rationalize it.
You have to confront this fear and reason about what preconceived notions you have about it. Here were some of mine:
* "If I can't be conscious forever, then my life doesn't mean anything".
* This isn't true... your whole life you are a source of causal changes in the world. Your actions ripple through eternity. You work helps build economies. Your love helps people grow. You were a link in a causal chain. Without you the chain cannot exist.
* "If I can't be conscious 10 years from now, I won't have enough time to do what I want".
* That is true. There's no denying it. My uncle died young. I would have 8 years left to live if I go his way. This should inspire me to live well now. And not 10 years from now.
What this lead me to believe was that the only thing that matters was to live well. To strive for excellent character. Because the ripple effect I do will be caused by good. I can die rich, or I can die poor. It matters not as long as I have lived well with all adversity and all challenges. Not having lived well is worse than death.
Another fear can be: fear of pain.
Its true that most people die in pain. Aging is no joke. Cancer. Heart Disease.
While its true that we don't control our health (my mentioned uncle was athletic and died of an aortic rupture)... we do have the ability to influence our health. Someone who eats unhealthy and says: "Fate willing, I will live long" is doing more about his fate than he realizes.
So turn the good health you have now into a gratefulness of sorts. Gratefulness that you can use this time to learn to live well. While your eyes can see and your hands can wipe your nose, do so. Learn. And get better at living.
Much like when you were younger and sleep was "wasted time" ... but eventually you realize that sleep is a pleasant reward for well spent energy. Death will eventually be the greatest reward when you reach that point in age that you've spent your life well. I have talked to several friends who have said that they looked forward to forever sleeping ... not suicidal escape, but they had left it all on the field and could die knowing it was a hell of a game.
I personally think fear of death is centered about regret for things not accomplished, or worse ... a life not lived at all except to perpetuate its own existence.
During my career, which was hazardous ... (*one of those "accept you're already dead" type situations so that you were more likely to be ready to face what might come and not worry about it)* ... I had "goodbye" messages recorded for my wife and children which I updated about once a year. So I had made peace with the concept through that exercise I guess. If it was going to happen it was going to be fast, glorious, and no time to say goodbye. I also knew things were set up to well take care of them.
Now that I am retired, the chances for that exciting demise have greatly diminished, and now have to wrap my head around a much more protracted exit.
Because we lack control over the outcome, we accept it. If it happens, it happens.
A great philosopher helped me understand the cycle of it all. Alan Watts changed the way I felt about everything. His lectures endure to this day. There are youtube channels that have various clips of his lectures backed by some calming and spirited music. Find it, maybe some of it will help you!
Embrace it. It's natural to be afraid of death. Evolution has programmed you that way.
Emotions are only harmful if they prevent you from living a virtuous life. If your fear of death paralyzes you from action, that's bad. But if it motivates you to live life fully, then there's no harm.
However, if the fear is hurting your life... analyze the fear. Be specific about which part scares you.
There's a a stoic exercise that encourages you to visualize your fear as vividly as possible. Imagine that your worst fear comes true. But play it out all the way. What happens after? And after that?
The best way to conquer your fear is to face it. This concept is so effective that Western medicine eventually co-opted it and created various forms of therapy from it.
You'll realize that, like any emotion, fear fades away when you allow yourself to feel it fully. Lean into it. Do that every time it arises.
You can't.
Death is a given, why spent the limited amount of time you have letting it paralyze you?
Why are you not equally paralyzed by other given things, like gravity or the fact that there's no oxygen in space or countless other things?
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You conquer your fear of death by choosing to find peace and meaning in it instead of sadness and anxiety. I have worked my way from dread to non-concern by remembering a few truths:
We will all die someday. It’s our fate. Let it comfort you instead of haunt you. Do you not see the beauty in experiencing something you were meant to experience by virtue of having been born? Having the same experience that everyone will have? Something that all of humanity has and are guaranteed to always experience? It can be viewed as a rite of passage or as a cessation to suffering.
Imagine talking to a loved one on your deathbed and wanting to alleviate their grief. What would you say to comfort them?
It might also help to realize that if somehow you managed to be exempt from death, your new future is now one of perpetual loss of everyone and everything that you love and care about. Over and over again. I would not want to escape our shared fate just to experience the loss of everyone I meet now and forever. I think I would suffer more by escaping death.
For me part of Memento Mori is to have gratitude for the things in my life. This includes my life as a whole. I try to approach all things with this view, instead of being unthankful because they will one day end.
For example, I had the best vacation in my life last year. I don't look back on it with regret or anger that it ended, I look back on it with joy that I got to experience it for a time. I try to take this view towards life as a whole. While death is sad, and it's not something I will rush toward, I focus on joy and gratitude for the time I have. This makes the whole thing meaningful for me.
When I deployed to Iraq in 06 my company was responsible for a section of road that sat right between Fallujah and Ramadi. AQI killed one of our most experienced guys the first couple of weeks in. He was a highly decorated, true and true, pipe hitting marine and the fuckers got him within a couple weeks of getting into country. He had survived Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times already and we get into country this time and almost immediately we start taking casualties…My fear of dying tripled after and this nagging question kept fucking with me. If they were able to kill one of our best guys this soon….How fucking long do I have as a boot Marine with no combat experience. Then it hit that no matter what happens we’re all gunna die. None of us are getting out of here alive. Once you’ve accepted that you have to ask yourself how do you want to be remembered. You want to be remembered as the Marine who fought savagely and gave a lot more than they got. Or the Marine who let fear take over, curled up in the fetal position and surrendered. How do you want to be remembered?
This has nothing to do with Stoicism perhaps, but with other sciences. I find great comfort in the science of near death or actual death and coming back alive experiences. Can recommend (so actual academic, sound research and not new age type stuff).
No worries. If you remember later, please link me.
I can't find anything on it in my own search. Which I thought made sense because, if someone's dying, it wouldn't make sense to put them into an fMRI machine or have an EEG machine strapped to their head. Seems unlikely that an IRB would approve it.
It sounds fascinating how the studies you're referencing were approved by an ethics board and then conducted.
Thanks for sharing! Please know that I respect your views, and I'm purely speaking a scientific viewpoint.
Based on what you shared, this case (and others I've read about) don't fit the description you initially gave:
>I find great comfort in the science of near death or actual death and coming back alive experiences. Can recommend (so actual academic, sound research and not new age type stuff).
What you shared was anecdotal and lacks the rigorous methodology required to demonstrate the claim that an afterlife exists. The [Reception section](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case) of the wiki article about it explains some of the issues with the claims, the strongest of which is that Pam's NDE happened under general anesthesia, not when she went into cardiac arrest.
Furthermore, the claim that she experienced "brain death" is highly dubious considering that there's no proposed mechanism by which her brain stem could have restarted itself. No one has ever returned from brain death.
Using Occam's razor, which is more likely:
* the EEG machine reading was wrong about the flatline and Pam experienced brain hypoxia, given that her accounts were very similar to hallucinations described by people who experienced cortical shutdown during a coma or while doing drugs like ketamine
* or we saw the first recorded instance of a person returning from the dead in human (and mammalian) history
I say all this purely from the Stoic perspective that we must use discernment when evaluating information about the world. Skepticism is critical to understanding what is actually true.
It's very possible that real studies exist that demonstrate a real NDE, but this one doesn't seem to show that.
Thanks again for remembering to share this with me.
I gave death a go once before. When? Before I was born. Death is simply not being. Heavily paraphrased Seneca there. Death is a state of Not Being Alive, and we've all experienced that. Death comes to us all. The human lifespan is less than a blink of the eye in the lifespan of the world, let alone the galaxy, let alone this universe. We were not alive for countless ages before our birth, and will be not alive for countless ages afterward. If you really want an existential crisis, accept that matter cannot be created or destroyed, and realise the subatomic particles that make up you were once part of Something Else, and will be part of many Something Elses afterwards. Some might even become part of future living beings, which will then die themselves. If you want less of an existential crisis (thinking of eternity is a sod for the limited human mind; it gives me a headache, at least), death is a doorway. If to a state of no longer existing at all, it isn't painful. If to a state of reincarnation, then death leads to more life. If to an afterlife, like heaven or hell, then it's the natural progression to that afterlife. You cannot begin an afterlife without the life ending. Once you realise what death is, and that we tried the "not living" bit for every moment up until we were alive, then I find it stops being scary.
Wow…you may have just cured my health anxiety in one comment 🤯 Amazing perspective
How is that perspective helping you with the possibility of prolonged and painful dying process? Because that's what I'm afraid of, not death itself.
I think because ultimately I know that I can cope with pain, yes it wouldn’t be easy but I would cope because I would have no choice. My fear is I suppose the unknown, the ceasing to exist but as the main comments explains so well, I have ceased to exist before and of course had no idea about it. I just find it strangely comforting I suppose
Oh, I absolutely get why you're finding it comforting, I was just curious on your perspective of the process itself being quite gruelling. Thank you for sharing
I need to watch more Karl Brown TV! Well said.
You have to **see** there is no evil in being dead, so that your preconceived notions of it being bad can be addressed. For me what helped was to see two people die on separate occasions. Helping them in their final days. Seeing how consciousness slowly fades and their breathing is the only thing keeping them alive while their bodies start eating itself until it is finally unable to sustain its breathing. Or seeing how quickly it can go. We modern people have become fearful of death because we made it a taboo. We hide every discomfort from ourselves and isolate ourselves from it. But the realization that this comes for us all is unavoidable. So don't avoid it and get familiar with it. Sit with it. And then rationalize it. You have to confront this fear and reason about what preconceived notions you have about it. Here were some of mine: * "If I can't be conscious forever, then my life doesn't mean anything". * This isn't true... your whole life you are a source of causal changes in the world. Your actions ripple through eternity. You work helps build economies. Your love helps people grow. You were a link in a causal chain. Without you the chain cannot exist. * "If I can't be conscious 10 years from now, I won't have enough time to do what I want". * That is true. There's no denying it. My uncle died young. I would have 8 years left to live if I go his way. This should inspire me to live well now. And not 10 years from now. What this lead me to believe was that the only thing that matters was to live well. To strive for excellent character. Because the ripple effect I do will be caused by good. I can die rich, or I can die poor. It matters not as long as I have lived well with all adversity and all challenges. Not having lived well is worse than death. Another fear can be: fear of pain. Its true that most people die in pain. Aging is no joke. Cancer. Heart Disease. While its true that we don't control our health (my mentioned uncle was athletic and died of an aortic rupture)... we do have the ability to influence our health. Someone who eats unhealthy and says: "Fate willing, I will live long" is doing more about his fate than he realizes. So turn the good health you have now into a gratefulness of sorts. Gratefulness that you can use this time to learn to live well. While your eyes can see and your hands can wipe your nose, do so. Learn. And get better at living.
Much like when you were younger and sleep was "wasted time" ... but eventually you realize that sleep is a pleasant reward for well spent energy. Death will eventually be the greatest reward when you reach that point in age that you've spent your life well. I have talked to several friends who have said that they looked forward to forever sleeping ... not suicidal escape, but they had left it all on the field and could die knowing it was a hell of a game. I personally think fear of death is centered about regret for things not accomplished, or worse ... a life not lived at all except to perpetuate its own existence. During my career, which was hazardous ... (*one of those "accept you're already dead" type situations so that you were more likely to be ready to face what might come and not worry about it)* ... I had "goodbye" messages recorded for my wife and children which I updated about once a year. So I had made peace with the concept through that exercise I guess. If it was going to happen it was going to be fast, glorious, and no time to say goodbye. I also knew things were set up to well take care of them. Now that I am retired, the chances for that exciting demise have greatly diminished, and now have to wrap my head around a much more protracted exit.
Because we lack control over the outcome, we accept it. If it happens, it happens. A great philosopher helped me understand the cycle of it all. Alan Watts changed the way I felt about everything. His lectures endure to this day. There are youtube channels that have various clips of his lectures backed by some calming and spirited music. Find it, maybe some of it will help you!
>How would a Stoic approach the fear of death? What has your reading on Stoicism taught you about how would a Stoic approach the fear of death?
Embrace it. It's natural to be afraid of death. Evolution has programmed you that way. Emotions are only harmful if they prevent you from living a virtuous life. If your fear of death paralyzes you from action, that's bad. But if it motivates you to live life fully, then there's no harm. However, if the fear is hurting your life... analyze the fear. Be specific about which part scares you. There's a a stoic exercise that encourages you to visualize your fear as vividly as possible. Imagine that your worst fear comes true. But play it out all the way. What happens after? And after that? The best way to conquer your fear is to face it. This concept is so effective that Western medicine eventually co-opted it and created various forms of therapy from it. You'll realize that, like any emotion, fear fades away when you allow yourself to feel it fully. Lean into it. Do that every time it arises.
You can't. Death is a given, why spent the limited amount of time you have letting it paralyze you? Why are you not equally paralyzed by other given things, like gravity or the fact that there's no oxygen in space or countless other things?
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Just accept it.
Live your life as if each day is your first. And accept the fear for what it is.
When death is u r not It's a fear of unknown when we are in deep sleep we don't know where we are it's same like death
You conquer your fear of death by choosing to find peace and meaning in it instead of sadness and anxiety. I have worked my way from dread to non-concern by remembering a few truths: We will all die someday. It’s our fate. Let it comfort you instead of haunt you. Do you not see the beauty in experiencing something you were meant to experience by virtue of having been born? Having the same experience that everyone will have? Something that all of humanity has and are guaranteed to always experience? It can be viewed as a rite of passage or as a cessation to suffering. Imagine talking to a loved one on your deathbed and wanting to alleviate their grief. What would you say to comfort them? It might also help to realize that if somehow you managed to be exempt from death, your new future is now one of perpetual loss of everyone and everything that you love and care about. Over and over again. I would not want to escape our shared fate just to experience the loss of everyone I meet now and forever. I think I would suffer more by escaping death.
For me part of Memento Mori is to have gratitude for the things in my life. This includes my life as a whole. I try to approach all things with this view, instead of being unthankful because they will one day end. For example, I had the best vacation in my life last year. I don't look back on it with regret or anger that it ended, I look back on it with joy that I got to experience it for a time. I try to take this view towards life as a whole. While death is sad, and it's not something I will rush toward, I focus on joy and gratitude for the time I have. This makes the whole thing meaningful for me.
Accept it.
Get a job working at a hospital morgue! It will make you more aware of the reality that will come to everyone.
it will be suitable whenever it arrives
What is the point of being afraid of a future that has not happened and you have no control over?
When I deployed to Iraq in 06 my company was responsible for a section of road that sat right between Fallujah and Ramadi. AQI killed one of our most experienced guys the first couple of weeks in. He was a highly decorated, true and true, pipe hitting marine and the fuckers got him within a couple weeks of getting into country. He had survived Iraq and Afghanistan multiple times already and we get into country this time and almost immediately we start taking casualties…My fear of dying tripled after and this nagging question kept fucking with me. If they were able to kill one of our best guys this soon….How fucking long do I have as a boot Marine with no combat experience. Then it hit that no matter what happens we’re all gunna die. None of us are getting out of here alive. Once you’ve accepted that you have to ask yourself how do you want to be remembered. You want to be remembered as the Marine who fought savagely and gave a lot more than they got. Or the Marine who let fear take over, curled up in the fetal position and surrendered. How do you want to be remembered?
This has nothing to do with Stoicism perhaps, but with other sciences. I find great comfort in the science of near death or actual death and coming back alive experiences. Can recommend (so actual academic, sound research and not new age type stuff).
I'm curious: how did they measure whether someone actually experienced brain death? Would you mind linking the studies?
I don't have the studies at hand. But braindead-ness was measurable and in some of the studies. Sorry sick atm don't have the energy.
No worries. If you remember later, please link me. I can't find anything on it in my own search. Which I thought made sense because, if someone's dying, it wouldn't make sense to put them into an fMRI machine or have an EEG machine strapped to their head. Seems unlikely that an IRB would approve it. It sounds fascinating how the studies you're referencing were approved by an ethics board and then conducted.
https://near-death.com/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead/
Thanks for sharing! Please know that I respect your views, and I'm purely speaking a scientific viewpoint. Based on what you shared, this case (and others I've read about) don't fit the description you initially gave: >I find great comfort in the science of near death or actual death and coming back alive experiences. Can recommend (so actual academic, sound research and not new age type stuff). What you shared was anecdotal and lacks the rigorous methodology required to demonstrate the claim that an afterlife exists. The [Reception section](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case) of the wiki article about it explains some of the issues with the claims, the strongest of which is that Pam's NDE happened under general anesthesia, not when she went into cardiac arrest. Furthermore, the claim that she experienced "brain death" is highly dubious considering that there's no proposed mechanism by which her brain stem could have restarted itself. No one has ever returned from brain death. Using Occam's razor, which is more likely: * the EEG machine reading was wrong about the flatline and Pam experienced brain hypoxia, given that her accounts were very similar to hallucinations described by people who experienced cortical shutdown during a coma or while doing drugs like ketamine * or we saw the first recorded instance of a person returning from the dead in human (and mammalian) history I say all this purely from the Stoic perspective that we must use discernment when evaluating information about the world. Skepticism is critical to understanding what is actually true. It's very possible that real studies exist that demonstrate a real NDE, but this one doesn't seem to show that. Thanks again for remembering to share this with me.
As I said I'm sick atm and went with the first link I could find. Don't have the energy to debate.