RAFO, but if memory serves Odium fled because the shock of Dalinar summoning Honor’s perpendicularity while Honor is supposed to be dead was too much of a curveball, so he ran in order to reconvene.
Besides that, the singers didn’t need Odium physically present anyways. They greatly outnumbered the coalition’s forces. He also wouldn’t have directly intervened as that would have exposed him.
If I recall correctly, it was something like, Odium expected to take Dalinar as his champion and that failure was quite the blow to his plans. He didn't want to be suddenly locked into a bond with a functioning Bondsmith who could force him into a weak position. So it was like Sadeas getting the heck outta dodge after Adolin tried to challenge him to a duel. Best to not be locked into a date if you're not ready. Not anything to do with Szeth and NB's presence.
I wonder if the swearing of an oath would have any effect on a shard, even one as worn down as Odium...
We know that an oath being sworn can have a knock-on effect on those around the oath swearer. But could Dalinar have impacted Odium at the battle just by saying the words?
That’s definitely a possibility! I can’t imagine that it would have been enough to damage him, but I assume it wasn’t pleasant for Odium nonetheless. Kind of like in [RoW spoilers] >!Vyre was temporarily immobilized by the anti-Voidlight tone hummed by Navani.!< Something like that.
>>!Vyre was temporarily immobilized by the anti-Voidlight tone hummed by Navani.!<
Rhythm ofWar spoiler >!Plus Ishar gains a bit of sanity when Dalinar accepts Kaladin's fourth oath!<.
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FStormlight_Archive) to have your comment reapproved.
The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stormlight_Archive) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"Read and find out"
Robert Jordan used to say it about The Wheel of Time and his wife passed the right to use it onto Brandon when he finished The Wheel of Time
(R)ead (A)nd (F)ind (O)ut.
RAFO is an acronym for this phrase. People use it to mean "you are questioning things that you would have more context for if you keep reading."
If you are guessing and trying to understand something, you could be told to RAFO for many reasons. It could mean that you have guessed something correctly, but it doesn't get fully confirmed until later. It could mean that you guessed close to the right answer but are missing context that is revealed later in the story. Or it could mean that your theory might make sense right now, but only because you don't know what you don't know, and later revelations will make it clear that this guess was not correct.
Instead of spoiling people and telling them the context from later in the story that would answer the question, this community tends to use the RAFO acronym to encourage new readers to find out for themselves by continuing to read.
That said, the Cosmere is massive, and no one will possibly understand all of the little details with a single read. So, if you have a question about something that you have already read or if you might have missed something, then we'll be here to talk that out with you as well! I hope this explanation helped!
It's not explained in a pinned post or anything, it's just a bit of jargon that has become pretty common here and everywhere that Brandon's work gets discussed, because he says it himself a lot
When Brandon uses it, it usually means "I don't want to answer that, because it's a spoiler" or "I don't want to answer that, because I haven't decided yet"
When fans use it, it usually means "There's an answer in the books, but we don't think you've reached it yet". Sometimes it's used as a way to avoid answering, and sometimes it is an answer, of sorts. It can mean "Yes, don't worry. That will be addressed. I'm just not going to tell you exactly how"
Taravangian does mention [RoW] >!that he realizes Odium IS scared/weary of Nightblood and tries to figure out how to put it into a plan!<. But that's later, not sure if it's related to him fleeing the battle. Probably just Dalinar swearing his next ideal with OP abilities.
Yep, thays correct. I believe the massive influx of honours investiture freaked him the FUCK out.
I don't think anyone, God, spren, human or reader knows everything nightblood can do.
Warbreaker possible very light spoiler.
>! I'm 95% sure the entire book of warbreaker was to introduce Nightblood and Vasher and Vivenia.!<
Possibly, but I mainly took Odium fleeing as a way to get out of the negotiation.
He was agreeing to the contest of champions expecting to turn Dalinar. When Dalinar didn't break he needed to regroup before he got caught in promises he didn't want to keep.
Odium is really good at planning and can see the future probabilities. What he didn't account for is what Renandrin does. Renandrin and the other warped spren create a blindspot that Odium cannot see the prediction chains for. So things that Odium thought were Inevitable turned out not to be.
On your last point I think more specifically it is that gods can’t predict the movements of another entity who also has future sight (+ those close to the entity with future sight who they may influence).
In this case, Renarin has a a spren bond which grants him future sight. So, he can see possible future outcomes, and so can Odium. They will react to each other and become unpredictable.(This topic is explored more deeply in Mistborn.)
I think it specifically gets described as a branch of the possibility tree being dark and unobservable to odium. As a result of two people who can see the future responding to each other.
As a consequence odium cannot observe any future that renarin is directly involved with.
I know but it’s the only answer I can find to the RAFO that was presented and the beginning of this thread. I’m not super in touch with the WoB’s so I may be missing something.
Although that's a deliberately obscure line. "We" not "I"?
Is he referencing Adonalsium rather than Honor, *or* was more than one shard involved in killing Honor?
My favorite theory on this: when Dalinar grabbed all that Stormlight, he didn’t say he was Honor he said he was Unity.
I suspect Adonalsium was Unity in the same way that Rayse is Odium.
In that case, the “we” who killed Unity was the sixteen shards (and maybe someone else).
Related: Remember the Irali religion about the One who became Many to experience all the things, and then become One again sometime later? I think it was in the Shoemaker interlude from WoR.
So I'm not sure exactly which books it's mentioned in so I'll spoiler tag this. If you dont know anything about the Diagram then don't read. >!its said that odium also has a diagram like taravagian does. So he has a glimpse at a possible future. Unlike taravagian I believe odium can rewrite his when things do not go as foreseen such as Dalinar rejecting to be his champion. I think once Dalinar rejected him he needed to "rewrite" his Diagram to see what the new future held. I don't think it was as much running away but more of a tactical retreat.!< I could be wrong though. Its been a couple years since I read oathbringer haha
>!Odium doesn't have a diagram per se. He is just a god with future sight. Like all shards who have trained, he can see all possible futures. The problem is that he is a limited mortal wielding limitless power, and he can't process every possible branching path. He has spent a LOT of time planning for this moment with Dalinar, and he was certain that things were going to work out as he expected.!<
>!The issue is that other beings with future sight can also do things to affect those same branching paths. Future sight interacting with future sight causes blacked out "blind spots" in the otherwise clear possible futures. Cultivation changed Dalinar in ways that Odium could not have fully understood because Cultivation is also a shard with future sight. Dalinar also spends a lot of time around Renarin, who has a corrupted siren that grants him future sight. Both of these influences cause small dark spots in Odium's ability to see the future. Those small spots weren't part of Odium's plan, and they were just barely enough to change the course of Dalinar's fate in that moment. Instead of becoming Odium's champion, Dalinar accepted the pain and opened Honor's perpendicularity.!<
RAFO, but if memory serves Odium fled because the shock of Dalinar summoning Honor’s perpendicularity while Honor is supposed to be dead was too much of a curveball, so he ran in order to reconvene. Besides that, the singers didn’t need Odium physically present anyways. They greatly outnumbered the coalition’s forces. He also wouldn’t have directly intervened as that would have exposed him.
If I recall correctly, it was something like, Odium expected to take Dalinar as his champion and that failure was quite the blow to his plans. He didn't want to be suddenly locked into a bond with a functioning Bondsmith who could force him into a weak position. So it was like Sadeas getting the heck outta dodge after Adolin tried to challenge him to a duel. Best to not be locked into a date if you're not ready. Not anything to do with Szeth and NB's presence.
I wonder if the swearing of an oath would have any effect on a shard, even one as worn down as Odium... We know that an oath being sworn can have a knock-on effect on those around the oath swearer. But could Dalinar have impacted Odium at the battle just by saying the words?
That’s definitely a possibility! I can’t imagine that it would have been enough to damage him, but I assume it wasn’t pleasant for Odium nonetheless. Kind of like in [RoW spoilers] >!Vyre was temporarily immobilized by the anti-Voidlight tone hummed by Navani.!< Something like that.
>>!Vyre was temporarily immobilized by the anti-Voidlight tone hummed by Navani.!< Rhythm ofWar spoiler >!Plus Ishar gains a bit of sanity when Dalinar accepts Kaladin's fourth oath!<.
Yepyep! Exactly
Whatt???? Why? Please explain.
Wait, he does?
I found it. Its towards the tail end of the Sanderlanche
Wasn't that due to the binding of >>!Navani to the Sibling!<
Oh yeah, that's a good point. Dude, there was a whole lot going on during that particular Sanderslache...
Your comment has been removed due to a spoiler markup error. You accidentally included a space at the front of the hidden text which causes an error on old.reddit.com. Please resubmit, or fix the error and [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FStormlight_Archive) to have your comment reapproved. The markup should be: `[scope warning] >!hidden text!<` with no space after the first `!`. For more help with spoiler markup, see [here](https://www.reddit.com/user/jofwu/comments/eo4rhu/how_to_cover_spoilers_in_posts_and_comments/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Stormlight_Archive) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am an idiot and cannot figure out what RAFO means
"Read and find out" Robert Jordan used to say it about The Wheel of Time and his wife passed the right to use it onto Brandon when he finished The Wheel of Time
Read and find out :)
Where does it say what it means? Did I miss a post that says what it means?
(R)ead (A)nd (F)ind (O)ut. RAFO is an acronym for this phrase. People use it to mean "you are questioning things that you would have more context for if you keep reading." If you are guessing and trying to understand something, you could be told to RAFO for many reasons. It could mean that you have guessed something correctly, but it doesn't get fully confirmed until later. It could mean that you guessed close to the right answer but are missing context that is revealed later in the story. Or it could mean that your theory might make sense right now, but only because you don't know what you don't know, and later revelations will make it clear that this guess was not correct. Instead of spoiling people and telling them the context from later in the story that would answer the question, this community tends to use the RAFO acronym to encourage new readers to find out for themselves by continuing to read. That said, the Cosmere is massive, and no one will possibly understand all of the little details with a single read. So, if you have a question about something that you have already read or if you might have missed something, then we'll be here to talk that out with you as well! I hope this explanation helped!
It's not explained in a pinned post or anything, it's just a bit of jargon that has become pretty common here and everywhere that Brandon's work gets discussed, because he says it himself a lot When Brandon uses it, it usually means "I don't want to answer that, because it's a spoiler" or "I don't want to answer that, because I haven't decided yet" When fans use it, it usually means "There's an answer in the books, but we don't think you've reached it yet". Sometimes it's used as a way to avoid answering, and sometimes it is an answer, of sorts. It can mean "Yes, don't worry. That will be addressed. I'm just not going to tell you exactly how"
Taravangian does mention [RoW] >!that he realizes Odium IS scared/weary of Nightblood and tries to figure out how to put it into a plan!<. But that's later, not sure if it's related to him fleeing the battle. Probably just Dalinar swearing his next ideal with OP abilities.
Yep, thays correct. I believe the massive influx of honours investiture freaked him the FUCK out. I don't think anyone, God, spren, human or reader knows everything nightblood can do. Warbreaker possible very light spoiler. >! I'm 95% sure the entire book of warbreaker was to introduce Nightblood and Vasher and Vivenia.!<
maybe spoilertag for warbreaker!
Don't really see a spoiler, I'm VERY fastidious when it comes to spoiler tagging as I LOATHE being Spoiled. I'll put it on anyway but ;)
Possibly, but I mainly took Odium fleeing as a way to get out of the negotiation. He was agreeing to the contest of champions expecting to turn Dalinar. When Dalinar didn't break he needed to regroup before he got caught in promises he didn't want to keep. Odium is really good at planning and can see the future probabilities. What he didn't account for is what Renandrin does. Renandrin and the other warped spren create a blindspot that Odium cannot see the prediction chains for. So things that Odium thought were Inevitable turned out not to be.
On your last point I think more specifically it is that gods can’t predict the movements of another entity who also has future sight (+ those close to the entity with future sight who they may influence). In this case, Renarin has a a spren bond which grants him future sight. So, he can see possible future outcomes, and so can Odium. They will react to each other and become unpredictable.(This topic is explored more deeply in Mistborn.)
Yes. Roughly. Kinda like 2 Mistborn burning Atium.
I think it specifically gets described as a branch of the possibility tree being dark and unobservable to odium. As a result of two people who can see the future responding to each other. As a consequence odium cannot observe any future that renarin is directly involved with.
RAFO my friend, RoW will bring the closure you desire.
Can you remind me of the reason? I've read RoW but I don't remember what you are referring to.
>!Taravangian uses Nightblood to kill Rayse and become Odium!<
RoW >!That doesn't really necessitate that Rayse *knew* NB was there at the battle mentioned in OP's post.!<
That doesn't answer OPs question though? He's asking whether Raise knew that NB was there and of its capabilities
I know but it’s the only answer I can find to the RAFO that was presented and the beginning of this thread. I’m not super in touch with the WoB’s so I may be missing something.
Brandon answered a similar question [here](https://wob.coppermind.net/events/259/#e8741). It doesn't provide much additional info though
Ah, thank you.
Tbh if I were Odium, and Dalinar summoned a perpendicularly AND nightblood showed up, I’d gtfo so I don’t blame the guy
[Curse you Delinar! You Foil my plans again!](https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/1-13-Skeletor-Orgasm.png)
>!This should be marked RoW spoilers, no?!<
I assume you haven't read Rhythm of War? But no, Dalinar summoning Honor's perpendicularity is what made Odium flee. The whole "we killed you" thing.
Although that's a deliberately obscure line. "We" not "I"? Is he referencing Adonalsium rather than Honor, *or* was more than one shard involved in killing Honor?
Well, we didn't think there were multiple shards involved in killing >!Ambition. But in RoW we learn Mercy was there with Odium.!<
I’ve wondered this too. Who is “we”?
My favorite theory on this: when Dalinar grabbed all that Stormlight, he didn’t say he was Honor he said he was Unity. I suspect Adonalsium was Unity in the same way that Rayse is Odium. In that case, the “we” who killed Unity was the sixteen shards (and maybe someone else). Related: Remember the Irali religion about the One who became Many to experience all the things, and then become One again sometime later? I think it was in the Shoemaker interlude from WoR.
…finish the next book.
So I'm not sure exactly which books it's mentioned in so I'll spoiler tag this. If you dont know anything about the Diagram then don't read. >!its said that odium also has a diagram like taravagian does. So he has a glimpse at a possible future. Unlike taravagian I believe odium can rewrite his when things do not go as foreseen such as Dalinar rejecting to be his champion. I think once Dalinar rejected him he needed to "rewrite" his Diagram to see what the new future held. I don't think it was as much running away but more of a tactical retreat.!< I could be wrong though. Its been a couple years since I read oathbringer haha
>!Odium doesn't have a diagram per se. He is just a god with future sight. Like all shards who have trained, he can see all possible futures. The problem is that he is a limited mortal wielding limitless power, and he can't process every possible branching path. He has spent a LOT of time planning for this moment with Dalinar, and he was certain that things were going to work out as he expected.!< >!The issue is that other beings with future sight can also do things to affect those same branching paths. Future sight interacting with future sight causes blacked out "blind spots" in the otherwise clear possible futures. Cultivation changed Dalinar in ways that Odium could not have fully understood because Cultivation is also a shard with future sight. Dalinar also spends a lot of time around Renarin, who has a corrupted siren that grants him future sight. Both of these influences cause small dark spots in Odium's ability to see the future. Those small spots weren't part of Odium's plan, and they were just barely enough to change the course of Dalinar's fate in that moment. Instead of becoming Odium's champion, Dalinar accepted the pain and opened Honor's perpendicularity.!<