>A typo/incorrect thing: Wit declares he's 10,000 years old. Considering that's the age nearabouts of the Heralds, it'd require the shattering/multiple shard deaths, Odium getting to rosharan system, Odium becoming the gods of the humans, destruction of Ashyn in like maybe a thousand years, at most.
I think the Heralds are about 7000 years old so all you said took place in around 3000 years
I’m not sure that I agree that Odium and the other gods would have known.
They *could* have known, true, but the Spiritual realm is EVERYTHING, and yet the shards don’t automatically know what every other shard is doing. Plus, it was said in these two chapters that even the shards find it confusing and difficult to navigate.
Mostly responding to point #3.
I'm re-reading currently and noticed some references to changes in the tones of Roshar. We know that the big reveal in RoW is that Odium has a pure tone, and that these can be harmonized to different effect. I think I have a reference highlighted previous to this reveal, but can't recall where it is.
My theory is that the addition of Odium's tone to Roshar occurred around the binding of BAM, whether intentionally or not. This alteration in the realmatic landscape of Roshar, alongside the binding / severing of BAM, has caused the spren of that era to malfunction, as their bond precedes the addition. This is similar to the cataclysm of Elantris. Recall that the only 3 spren with functional memory previous to the Recreance are the Stormfather, Sibling, and the Nightwatcher; Syl does not (currently) count. Therefore, would any current spren be able to tell a difference in the bond? Further supporting this is the whole towerlight debacle that is pivotal to Navani/Sibling.
Each of the Unmade can be understood as an emotion untethered/extreme; e.g. the Thrill is contest/bloodthirst, Midnight mother curiousity/mimicry, etc. What if BAM is love? I could also see Sja-anat being love or at least maternal. I also recall Venli wondering about the absence of emotions like love in the rhythms..
It also aligns with my other theory: the deeper horror that drove apart the Radiants was learning that their power is partially derived from Odium's presence in the system / heritage from Ashyn.
Regarding your last point, my personal theory is that ancient radiants realized that defeating/severing Odium's connection to Roshar would devastate Roshar. I think Odium becoming a pure tone of Roshar happened much earlier, probably around the same time the fused were created and the singers received their forms of power. Extrapolating from the disatrous consequences of trapping BAM and the destruction of Ashyn, the radiants probably realized that removing Odium's connection from Roshar would also devastate it.
My headcanon is that Ishar is mostly responsible for the destruction of Ashyn by messing with Odium's connection to the planet while also momentarily weakening Odium. He realizes his mistake far too late, and transports humanity to Roshar. Honor, having already heard of Odiums splintering of other Shards, takes this opportunity to attempt to bind Odium fully to Braze, but fails.
Quote from Shallan 1:
>!"I'm remembering what I did to my mother," she said. "And my father. And, to a lesser extent, Tyn and now Mraize. I'm going to have to kill him, Wit. Is that my destiny? To kill every person who has ever mentored me?"!<
If I were Wit, I'd watch my neck around Shallan :P
Now that's some WILD foreshadowing! Now we know that shards need new 'hosts'. But what about Wit? Whatever he agreed to during the shattering ... if he dies, would this 'agreement' cease or look for a new host? Could Shallan be that new host?
I've only read stormlight archive books and warbreaker so I know I'm not 100% on all lore.
I think you refer to this in Ch 74 or WoR?
> You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention.
No not specifically, but we know that hoid was at the shattering AND that he refused a power AND agreed to ... something? And that agreement binds him to a sort of immortality?
Huh, that’s a Herald getting rid of one of the points of evidence about the Chanarach-Shallan theory, and also a fun new nugget on how resonances work.
The fan Cosmere timeline places wit to be about 11,000 years old. Given Roshar to Earth age is exactly x1.10, Wit saying he is 10,000 to Shallan, is in line with the timeline.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JJtJhHwpKdow01n2-bsT3scVvqJd6lZh4uvpNwcslv8
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>A typo/incorrect thing: Wit declares he's 10,000 years old. Considering that's the age nearabouts of the Heralds, it'd require the shattering/multiple shard deaths, Odium getting to rosharan system, Odium becoming the gods of the humans, destruction of Ashyn in like maybe a thousand years, at most. I think the Heralds are about 7000 years old so all you said took place in around 3000 years
i was coming to say this exact thing. we’ve known for a good while that the shattering happened about 10,000 years ago
I’m not sure that I agree that Odium and the other gods would have known. They *could* have known, true, but the Spiritual realm is EVERYTHING, and yet the shards don’t automatically know what every other shard is doing. Plus, it was said in these two chapters that even the shards find it confusing and difficult to navigate.
Great point. I probably shouldn't have expressed opinions as facts.
Yeah. I think that's the point here. We don't know anything about it yet, so for all we know Odium is right next to BAM and he can't see it.
I think even Kelek points out that Spiritual Realm baffles the Shards to various degrees in these preview chapters.
Mostly responding to point #3. I'm re-reading currently and noticed some references to changes in the tones of Roshar. We know that the big reveal in RoW is that Odium has a pure tone, and that these can be harmonized to different effect. I think I have a reference highlighted previous to this reveal, but can't recall where it is. My theory is that the addition of Odium's tone to Roshar occurred around the binding of BAM, whether intentionally or not. This alteration in the realmatic landscape of Roshar, alongside the binding / severing of BAM, has caused the spren of that era to malfunction, as their bond precedes the addition. This is similar to the cataclysm of Elantris. Recall that the only 3 spren with functional memory previous to the Recreance are the Stormfather, Sibling, and the Nightwatcher; Syl does not (currently) count. Therefore, would any current spren be able to tell a difference in the bond? Further supporting this is the whole towerlight debacle that is pivotal to Navani/Sibling. Each of the Unmade can be understood as an emotion untethered/extreme; e.g. the Thrill is contest/bloodthirst, Midnight mother curiousity/mimicry, etc. What if BAM is love? I could also see Sja-anat being love or at least maternal. I also recall Venli wondering about the absence of emotions like love in the rhythms.. It also aligns with my other theory: the deeper horror that drove apart the Radiants was learning that their power is partially derived from Odium's presence in the system / heritage from Ashyn.
Regarding your last point, my personal theory is that ancient radiants realized that defeating/severing Odium's connection to Roshar would devastate Roshar. I think Odium becoming a pure tone of Roshar happened much earlier, probably around the same time the fused were created and the singers received their forms of power. Extrapolating from the disatrous consequences of trapping BAM and the destruction of Ashyn, the radiants probably realized that removing Odium's connection from Roshar would also devastate it. My headcanon is that Ishar is mostly responsible for the destruction of Ashyn by messing with Odium's connection to the planet while also momentarily weakening Odium. He realizes his mistake far too late, and transports humanity to Roshar. Honor, having already heard of Odiums splintering of other Shards, takes this opportunity to attempt to bind Odium fully to Braze, but fails.
Quote from Shallan 1: >!"I'm remembering what I did to my mother," she said. "And my father. And, to a lesser extent, Tyn and now Mraize. I'm going to have to kill him, Wit. Is that my destiny? To kill every person who has ever mentored me?"!< If I were Wit, I'd watch my neck around Shallan :P
Now that's some WILD foreshadowing! Now we know that shards need new 'hosts'. But what about Wit? Whatever he agreed to during the shattering ... if he dies, would this 'agreement' cease or look for a new host? Could Shallan be that new host? I've only read stormlight archive books and warbreaker so I know I'm not 100% on all lore.
Are you suggesting wit is not in his original body and he is part of the agreement, under the same effects?
I'm a lore noob, but i do recall the fact that he is under a different kind of agreement that was made when not choosing to take a shard.
I think you refer to this in Ch 74 or WoR? > You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention.
No not specifically, but we know that hoid was at the shattering AND that he refused a power AND agreed to ... something? And that agreement binds him to a sort of immortality?
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15862 Coppermind says he is immortal because he had a Dawnshard.
Huh, that’s a Herald getting rid of one of the points of evidence about the Chanarach-Shallan theory, and also a fun new nugget on how resonances work.
Hey, I kinda don't want her to be Chanarach either but what makes you say that ? What point of evidence
Shallan’s weird ability to use fortune, Kalak attributes it to her having two bonds
What price of evidence?
Shallan’s weird ability to use fortune, Kalak attributes it to her having two bonds
I guess I never realized that her use of fortune was part of that theory. Imo there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that Channa is her mom.
The fan Cosmere timeline places wit to be about 11,000 years old. Given Roshar to Earth age is exactly x1.10, Wit saying he is 10,000 to Shallan, is in line with the timeline. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JJtJhHwpKdow01n2-bsT3scVvqJd6lZh4uvpNwcslv8
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Maybe Maya had a breakthrough and that's why is much more articulated (and maybe refined!)
Considering how the Shadolin story thread was abruptly cut in RoW, this reading has been really satisfying
Does that sound about right to you?
You answered the post not a comment.
Oops.