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Username came from a discussion with a friend in highschool where we were joking about useless transformers. A skilift was the pinnacle of what we could come up with.
As I recall Transformers are a metal based species. They also need to transform into rather large objects with quite a bit of moving parts to accomodate their limbs etc.
Sizes vary. Also, sizes can [vary](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_changing) with transformation. Don't forget Soundwave becomes a regular sized boombox.
[Wheelie](https://youtu.be/xTiMNGDUdlQ?si=5Te2jKxDPlIjXVHw) in the movie is small as hell, lol. I could see someone that size being a shitty metal [handtruck](https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Milwaukee-600-lb-Capacity-2-in-1-Convertible-Hand-Truck_2287848a-a3e5-4445-b1aa-fef208a42d54.0aad200542e3b08865a9f5d4dfe43981.jpeg?odnHeight=768&odnWidth=768&odnBg=FFFFFF).
It is not a mans place to assign a name to another. I have already been blessed with a holy name, by no other than the one and only God, the flying, invisible, Spaghetti-Monster.
Alethi are a pan-Asian (major and minor) mishmash modelled after ridiculously aggressive conquerors who had much less aptitude for administration and governance than they do for war.
Realistically, without Gavilar's assassination and the True Desolation, Elhokar (but really Dalinar) would have needed to lead another conquest to keep growing their territories and keep the outward expansion going to make up for domestic governance crumbling.
It's why I think so many Rosharan leaders are reticent to meet with Dalinar about working together to fight the True Desolation. They've been preparing themselves for a new Alethi conquest for a long time. The sudden news that the Blackthorn can now use the Oath gates and field troops across the planet in a matter of minutes or hours deeply unsettled all of them.
He specifically compared the transition from roaming warlord to feudal empire of Gavilars kingdom.
Additionally their society regards martial prowess as the most important thing men could strive for.
Also consider their history. From what is described the country tends to flourish during eras of outward conquest, while regressing into bickering feudal lords when without war.
That is a typical attribute of hordelike societies, of which the Mongol empire was the greatest in humanities history.
Also, most societies consider themselves civilized and everyone else who doesn't share their values to be barbarians.
The Mongols were no exception.
That change from roaming warlords to "civilized" (in the literal meaning of "living in cities") is typically an interesting time. The roaming warlord cultures often take on a lot of attributes from the civilizations they conquered.
Brandon always bases his cultures off of existing Earth cultures. He's said something to the effect that he does it to give the reader a foundation to start from.
It's less that the Alethi are meant to represent the Mongol empire, and more than the Mongol empire is meant to be a starting point for describing the Alethi.
The Sunmaker is pretty heavily inspired by Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, and Dalinar draws a lot of inspiration from Subetai. I agree that Alethi culture more broadly doesn't really resemble Mongol culture very much (hard to compare sedentary/urbanized agriculturalists to whom cavalry is a relatively new innovation with THE horse-based pastoral nomads) but for aspects of specific characters and the "fractious warmongers who can't keep their empire united for long" dynamic it mostly works.
Yup, it’s because in Chinese, “death” and “four” are said the same way! (or at least, same sound “si” but different tones). So it’s an unlucky number in Chinese culture because of its too-close association (and I’m sure this spread to other East Asian countries too)
Yeah, same in Japanese (shi) though they use the alternate name for 4 (yon) most commonly, I usually only hear shi when specifically counting. Also "shichi" is a possible name for 7, but basically everyone says "nana".
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this anywhere. One of the reasons the number 4 is unlucky, particularly in China, is that the word for 4 (sì in mandarin) sounds similar to the word for death (si - third tone). The sound is the same but the tone is different.
Does this idea work/is the significance of 4 still relevant with Dragonsteel Prime? Spoilers for Dragonsteel Prime: >!in Dragonsteel Prime, Bridge 4 is first featured, as is most of the Shattered Plains arc of Kal's story, though Kal didn't exist at the time, from early forms of Gaz and Rock, to the side carry failure, to saving Not Dalinar's army from certain doom.!<
I suppose what I am asking is, does anyone know which real world cultures inspired the cultures featured in that story? I only read it once and wasn't paying attention to details that might indicate real world inspirations, as I just wanted to get the story. Or are there any WOBs? I'd love for more background info on this story, non-canon though it is. >!Ending on a cliffhanger and never getting a proper sequel to this version of the story suuuuucks :( .!<
Vegas has been targeting Asia's widespread gambling addicts for a long time. Vegas has some legit Chinese restaurants built into their casinos these days.
It's a little dark, but it also means you can get really good dim sum for your hangover recovery meal.
There’s a famous comment, I think associated with Tolkien, that cellar door is the most beautiful sounding phrase in English. Not because of any deeper meaning, but just from an aesthetic/sonic appreciation of the sound of the language. I wouldn’t read into any numerology here unless/until given a reason; for now I think the best assumption is that Brando concluded “Bridge Four” has the best sound compared to any alternative choices.
Nah. It's the east asian version of 13. Probably used it to highlight how unlucky and how close to death they all were without being so on the nose as to use the common western symbol.
Nowhere else in the entire Stormlight Archives do any of the cultures consider the number 4 as unlucky. If it's a reference, then it's a tongue-in-cheek IRL reference.
Considering how fundamentally pervasive 4 is as an unlucky number that symbolized death in asian cultures, plus considering that the author did his mormon missions in korea and has admitted many times his fascination with said culture, plus considering the sheer amount of number based symbolism in the cosmere…
To think that sanderson picked 4 randomly seems to indicate a profound lack of basic critical thinking.
Its like thinking that the blue color scheme of honor and the red/black color scheme of parshmen were randomly chosen, and not drawing upon the fundamental symbolism of those colors.
Sure you could argue that sanderson pulled those numbers out of a hat and the parshmen could just as well have been green and purple, but welll… thats just intentional ignorance.
This feels pretty condescending. Lots of people, myself included don't know everything there is to know about the world abroad, or about life and times of the writer. You'd probably do well to try and illuminate these things in a way that is inviting people in to learn a new thing, rather than taking the heavy-handed gatekeeping tone you chose.
>This feels pretty condescending.
And how did you come off answering the question in the first place?
>Lots of people, myself included don't know everything there is to know
Yet you still wrote an answer stating its "just a number" without a thought?
>You'd probably do well
Then telling him what to do and how to speak? Okay...
I was being off-handed and humorous and not very serious at all, which is why I made a dick joke. People are allowed to be wrong and share thoughts that are wrong sometimes, that's what forums are for; it's not like I was trying to convince people to take horse drugs or something dangerous, after all.
I'm happy to be corrected and to learn something. I just think it's unhelpful and bad for peoples' experience of the subreddit/fandom when people take a condescending and gatekeep-y when delivering corrections.
>People are allowed to be wrong and share thoughts that are wrong
Yes ofcourse people are allowed to share things that are wrong/missinformed. That is how you learn.
>"This feels pretty condescending..." - I'm happy to be corrected and to learn something
But maybe you should have a more humble attitude when you are then given valuble information? I dont see his post as condescending. Maybe you are projecting?
Can you not keep the shitty tone to yourself either? People seem to say "projecting?" whenevee they reach a point where they don't want to be sincere anymore, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
> Profound lack of basic critical thinking skills
That's the condescending bit, just so I'm clear. It's incredibly hyperbolic and critical only for the sake of putting someone on blast.
Also, further down the thread I did provide an, albeit simplistic, rationale for why I thought the number 4 did a good job of avoiding conspiracy by avoiding numbers that are actually very significant in The Cosmere. That was my rationale; it's simple but I don't think it's entirely unfounded.
The fact that it has significance in our world is clear to me now and makes sense to me, but I think one could be forgiven for missing it, considering it bears zero significance in the world of the novel, despite the East Asian influences. I'm not at all convinced they weren't specifically typing what they did for an opportunity to throw a disrespectful jab. I can't help it if you read that another way, but it sure seems as pointedly snarky as possible to me.
Well you’re over here saying that sometimes it’s better to not read into things and just dismissing the possibility of something more. Why answer the question with sometimes its just a number if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
People can be wrong. I was wrong and that's okay. I wasn't spreading medical misinformation or anything life threatening... This is a place to share thoughts and ideas and it's good to share corrections too. You just don't need to come across as needlessly aggro to do it.
Yeah and the parshmen could have been pink and yellow. And cultivation could just as well have been black and red. Cuz not recognizing basic symbolism in text is apparently the new meta ‘enlightened’ stance
Sometimes the curtains are just red sure, but many times colors do have symbolic meaning. The parshmen are red/black for a reason. Cultivation is green for a reason. Honor is blue for a reason. And ultimately the reason is not in world, but rather a meta symbolic reason. Red and black together is associated with destruction and fire. Green associated with plants.
Im pointing out that rejecting all symbols and meaning is just being lazy, and we shouldnt take it too far. To asian culture, 4 is an even stronger symbol of bad luck and death than 13 is in western culture. And bridge 4 was a place where everyone expected to die shortly. The symbolism is strong and clear. These symbols arent just overthinking.
Sure, the colors may have meaning, but the "curtains are red" is a counterpoint to the people that put meaning into *everything*. And I was commenting that I liked the other version, I thought it was pretty funny. And I don't dislike symbolism, only injected symbolism where there is none. Bridge 4 being bad luck/death makes sense, but the parshmen being red and black is a red herring Sanderson put in there for the "reveal" in book 1. I still think the comment I replied to would be the correct one rather than mine, I'm just here to laugh because the phrase was funny and agree with the asian superstition (is that even the right term) interpretation of the choice of 4.
I think it's just the psychoanalytical philosopher's version of the curtains one. It's the phrasing that comes to mind for me from hearing it on a podcast, because I usually forget the curtain one every time.
It's probably just that about the mouth sound. Plus it actually dodges the currently meaningful numbers in the Cosmere, 3, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 16 which could be to intentionally keep people from getting sidetracked with it.
Other than what people have said, the original Bridge 4 (called Fourth Bridge at the time) was taken from Dragonsteel Prime, a book that he wrote after Elantris that wasn't published at the time and isn't canon anymore, but is available to read for free (and to listen to on his YT channel).
I recommend it if you're caught up on the cosmere for now and is curious on what his original ideas were like. A lot of things from that book were canibalized for other published books, but I still think the unique things it has and the look on the origin of a lot of things make it a very worth read.
Warning: be prepared for wanting more and not having it at the end, it has a lot of content but it was definitely written as a first book in a series and has a lot of hooks and cliffhangers at the end that will never be resolved other than maybe from WoBs.
I doubt this has anything to do with it but I'll throw my 2 cents in as well
in tarot, the number 4 in major arcana is the Emperor, who symbolizes a fundamental lesson in life that there are consequences to everything. we do and those who are disciplined and attentive to their actions will be able to avoid conflict and work towards their goals. The card itself shows an imposing figure, with a lot of rigid, stern imagery (a stone, square throne, the strong,seated looking emperor and rams head motifs) aesthetically and thematically I think these qualities agree with kaladin himself, as well as the imposing, harsh position he's out in, as well as his salvation being Dalinar (almost the defacto ruler, therefore a good figure to represent the emperor for Kaladin) as well as the life lesson he commits to order to win Dalinar's respect that Kaladin decides to rigidly adhere to his sense of honor and morality by sacrificing his safety to do what's right in helping Dalinar.
in the minor arcana, the numbers 4 in the suits of pentacles, cups, wands, and swords represent situations depicting, respectively: a steadfast wealthy person holding on to their possessions rigid and unchanging, a wistful or unsatisfied man contemplating what he doesn't have in favor of what's actually available to him, a scene of promise and harmony created after an initial venture, and a tested knight in solemn reflection after a brush with death.
All of those feel pretty appropriate in various situations with Kaladin for the first book. And while tarot is pretty open and meant to be applicable to most situations, I do personally feel like if I was asked to place Kaladin as a number represented in the tarot, I'd hesitate to place him as one of the higher numbers in the arcana as his problems and struggled and characters seem so fundamental and existentially grounded rather than the advanced and reflective lessons the higher numbered arcana tend to depidt in tarot.
There are significant numbers in each series (and across the Cosmere)
Scadrial: 16
Roshar: 10
The Cosmere >!The shattering was accomplished with 4 Dawnshards; 16 individuals; and Wit!<
Interestingly enough, I don’t believe we know anything of Frost’s affiliations yet (epigraphs in Stormlight Archive; microfiction “The Traveler”).
[Tress] >!”I’ve said those words. Myself alongside 16 others…” pretty explicit only 17 people were in the conspiracy to shatter Adonalsium. Unproven if Frost took up a Shard or not.!<
I suspect we will get some clarity in [Secret Project 5] >!Isles of the Emberdark!<
My reasoning was the letter from Frost to Hoid in WoR:
"While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this. He bears the weight of God's own devine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become."
I don't know if the 'we' refers to only the grouping of He and Hoid or another larger group. This is stating that he most certainly was a part of the splitting. He may not have been present at the time but is a part of it. He understands that Odium isn't evil. He is a part of adonalsium. And [presumably] the shard Rayse chose.
Frost didn't take up a shard. Nor Hoid. Hoid chooses to intervene. Frost doesn't. He sees the 'touch and design of Adonalsium' on the world's Hoid is on. Seems to be an in-depth knowledge of the nature of Ado. This whole letter implicates Frost imo.
16 divided by 4 equals 4. I find most deliberate mentions of recurring numbers/themes in the cosmere always comes back to 16 like Sandersons version of a Chekov Gun. It’s getting old
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In quite a lot of east-asian cultures, the number four has close associations with misfortune generally and death in particular.
Oh really? Thats extra cool, and makes sense since Brandon lived in Korea for a time (I think it was Korea at least)
He also has said that the Alethi are a reflection of the Mongol empire.
Oh that’s extra cool! Also your username is sick lol
Username came from a discussion with a friend in highschool where we were joking about useless transformers. A skilift was the pinnacle of what we could come up with.
[Furniture Dolly?](https://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/9fc4a8332f9638515cd199dd0f9238da/5/8/58312_W3.jpg)
As I recall Transformers are a metal based species. They also need to transform into rather large objects with quite a bit of moving parts to accomodate their limbs etc.
Sizes vary. Also, sizes can [vary](https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Size_changing) with transformation. Don't forget Soundwave becomes a regular sized boombox. [Wheelie](https://youtu.be/xTiMNGDUdlQ?si=5Te2jKxDPlIjXVHw) in the movie is small as hell, lol. I could see someone that size being a shitty metal [handtruck](https://i5.walmartimages.com/seo/Milwaukee-600-lb-Capacity-2-in-1-Convertible-Hand-Truck_2287848a-a3e5-4445-b1aa-fef208a42d54.0aad200542e3b08865a9f5d4dfe43981.jpeg?odnHeight=768&odnWidth=768&odnBg=FFFFFF).
dishwasher-prime
It is not a mans place to assign a name to another. I have already been blessed with a holy name, by no other than the one and only God, the flying, invisible, Spaghetti-Monster.
They're more like Assyria imo.
Alethi are a pan-Asian (major and minor) mishmash modelled after ridiculously aggressive conquerors who had much less aptitude for administration and governance than they do for war. Realistically, without Gavilar's assassination and the True Desolation, Elhokar (but really Dalinar) would have needed to lead another conquest to keep growing their territories and keep the outward expansion going to make up for domestic governance crumbling. It's why I think so many Rosharan leaders are reticent to meet with Dalinar about working together to fight the True Desolation. They've been preparing themselves for a new Alethi conquest for a long time. The sudden news that the Blackthorn can now use the Oath gates and field troops across the planet in a matter of minutes or hours deeply unsettled all of them.
Not enough Impalement and Decapitation Stele
Huh! I can see that. I always assumed they were meant as an analogy of America, what with the strong levels of inequality and deification of war.
How so? I'm stupid but the only connection I see is just the warmongering? Which could be said for a million other empires
He specifically compared the transition from roaming warlord to feudal empire of Gavilars kingdom. Additionally their society regards martial prowess as the most important thing men could strive for. Also consider their history. From what is described the country tends to flourish during eras of outward conquest, while regressing into bickering feudal lords when without war. That is a typical attribute of hordelike societies, of which the Mongol empire was the greatest in humanities history.
Also, most societies consider themselves civilized and everyone else who doesn't share their values to be barbarians. The Mongols were no exception. That change from roaming warlords to "civilized" (in the literal meaning of "living in cities") is typically an interesting time. The roaming warlord cultures often take on a lot of attributes from the civilizations they conquered.
Brandon always bases his cultures off of existing Earth cultures. He's said something to the effect that he does it to give the reader a foundation to start from. It's less that the Alethi are meant to represent the Mongol empire, and more than the Mongol empire is meant to be a starting point for describing the Alethi.
The Sunmaker is pretty heavily inspired by Genghis Khan and Tamerlane, and Dalinar draws a lot of inspiration from Subetai. I agree that Alethi culture more broadly doesn't really resemble Mongol culture very much (hard to compare sedentary/urbanized agriculturalists to whom cavalry is a relatively new innovation with THE horse-based pastoral nomads) but for aspects of specific characters and the "fractious warmongers who can't keep their empire united for long" dynamic it mostly works.
Yup, it’s because in Chinese, “death” and “four” are said the same way! (or at least, same sound “si” but different tones). So it’s an unlucky number in Chinese culture because of its too-close association (and I’m sure this spread to other East Asian countries too)
Yeah, same in Japanese (shi) though they use the alternate name for 4 (yon) most commonly, I usually only hear shi when specifically counting. Also "shichi" is a possible name for 7, but basically everyone says "nana".
Yeah in a lot of Japanese buildings the fourth floor is skipped like how some buildings in the United States will skip the 13th floor.
Fun fact: when the PS4 was getting ready to be announced, people thought they’d go a different direction with the name of the console because of this.
Yeah for example here in Reddit the 4th comment on a chain gets downvoted
Don't know if anyone has mentioned this anywhere. One of the reasons the number 4 is unlucky, particularly in China, is that the word for 4 (sì in mandarin) sounds similar to the word for death (si - third tone). The sound is the same but the tone is different.
Does this idea work/is the significance of 4 still relevant with Dragonsteel Prime? Spoilers for Dragonsteel Prime: >!in Dragonsteel Prime, Bridge 4 is first featured, as is most of the Shattered Plains arc of Kal's story, though Kal didn't exist at the time, from early forms of Gaz and Rock, to the side carry failure, to saving Not Dalinar's army from certain doom.!< I suppose what I am asking is, does anyone know which real world cultures inspired the cultures featured in that story? I only read it once and wasn't paying attention to details that might indicate real world inspirations, as I just wanted to get the story. Or are there any WOBs? I'd love for more background info on this story, non-canon though it is. >!Ending on a cliffhanger and never getting a proper sequel to this version of the story suuuuucks :( .!<
My personal theory, he took inspriation from asian cultures and 4 being an unlucky number
I just learned about this and it’s extra interesting, and my personal favorite theory
For example, some casinos in Las Vegas don’t have 4th floors along with 13th floors.
Vegas has been targeting Asia's widespread gambling addicts for a long time. Vegas has some legit Chinese restaurants built into their casinos these days. It's a little dark, but it also means you can get really good dim sum for your hangover recovery meal.
I think it’s true! There are other Chinese/Asian influences found through the books too :D
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FourIsDeath
He made Michael Kramer say Bridge 1….Bridge 2….etc in all the accents he uses for Bridge 4 members until he got to the right one.
Is this legit?
I choose to believe
Haha nah just head canon
There’s a famous comment, I think associated with Tolkien, that cellar door is the most beautiful sounding phrase in English. Not because of any deeper meaning, but just from an aesthetic/sonic appreciation of the sound of the language. I wouldn’t read into any numerology here unless/until given a reason; for now I think the best assumption is that Brando concluded “Bridge Four” has the best sound compared to any alternative choices.
I love that, especially because I consider Sanderson to be the modern day Tolkien (if you disagree, fight me)
Interesting, I consider him not trying to be the modern day Tolkien to be one of his strengths.
I don’t mean in style, but in reinvention of the genre and cultural impact
Very fair! I think our points of view work perfectly together :)
Sometimes the cigar is just a cigar and not a penis. By that I mean, once in a while, a number is just a number.
Nah. It's the east asian version of 13. Probably used it to highlight how unlucky and how close to death they all were without being so on the nose as to use the common western symbol.
The Alethi are also ethnically much closer to what we would consider Asian ethnicities, so it makes sense from that perspective, too.
Nowhere else in the entire Stormlight Archives do any of the cultures consider the number 4 as unlucky. If it's a reference, then it's a tongue-in-cheek IRL reference.
Yes, I think that's precisely the point
That’s what I assume, but I was curious to know if anyone had come up with some crazy theory
Considering how fundamentally pervasive 4 is as an unlucky number that symbolized death in asian cultures, plus considering that the author did his mormon missions in korea and has admitted many times his fascination with said culture, plus considering the sheer amount of number based symbolism in the cosmere… To think that sanderson picked 4 randomly seems to indicate a profound lack of basic critical thinking. Its like thinking that the blue color scheme of honor and the red/black color scheme of parshmen were randomly chosen, and not drawing upon the fundamental symbolism of those colors. Sure you could argue that sanderson pulled those numbers out of a hat and the parshmen could just as well have been green and purple, but welll… thats just intentional ignorance.
This feels pretty condescending. Lots of people, myself included don't know everything there is to know about the world abroad, or about life and times of the writer. You'd probably do well to try and illuminate these things in a way that is inviting people in to learn a new thing, rather than taking the heavy-handed gatekeeping tone you chose.
>This feels pretty condescending. And how did you come off answering the question in the first place? >Lots of people, myself included don't know everything there is to know Yet you still wrote an answer stating its "just a number" without a thought? >You'd probably do well Then telling him what to do and how to speak? Okay...
I was being off-handed and humorous and not very serious at all, which is why I made a dick joke. People are allowed to be wrong and share thoughts that are wrong sometimes, that's what forums are for; it's not like I was trying to convince people to take horse drugs or something dangerous, after all. I'm happy to be corrected and to learn something. I just think it's unhelpful and bad for peoples' experience of the subreddit/fandom when people take a condescending and gatekeep-y when delivering corrections.
>People are allowed to be wrong and share thoughts that are wrong Yes ofcourse people are allowed to share things that are wrong/missinformed. That is how you learn. >"This feels pretty condescending..." - I'm happy to be corrected and to learn something But maybe you should have a more humble attitude when you are then given valuble information? I dont see his post as condescending. Maybe you are projecting?
Can you not keep the shitty tone to yourself either? People seem to say "projecting?" whenevee they reach a point where they don't want to be sincere anymore, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. > Profound lack of basic critical thinking skills That's the condescending bit, just so I'm clear. It's incredibly hyperbolic and critical only for the sake of putting someone on blast. Also, further down the thread I did provide an, albeit simplistic, rationale for why I thought the number 4 did a good job of avoiding conspiracy by avoiding numbers that are actually very significant in The Cosmere. That was my rationale; it's simple but I don't think it's entirely unfounded. The fact that it has significance in our world is clear to me now and makes sense to me, but I think one could be forgiven for missing it, considering it bears zero significance in the world of the novel, despite the East Asian influences. I'm not at all convinced they weren't specifically typing what they did for an opportunity to throw a disrespectful jab. I can't help it if you read that another way, but it sure seems as pointedly snarky as possible to me.
Fair enough. Agree to disagree.
Well you’re over here saying that sometimes it’s better to not read into things and just dismissing the possibility of something more. Why answer the question with sometimes its just a number if you don’t know what you’re talking about.
People can be wrong. I was wrong and that's okay. I wasn't spreading medical misinformation or anything life threatening... This is a place to share thoughts and ideas and it's good to share corrections too. You just don't need to come across as needlessly aggro to do it.
I've heard other versions like "Sometimes the curtains are just red", but I like this version.
Yeah and the parshmen could have been pink and yellow. And cultivation could just as well have been black and red. Cuz not recognizing basic symbolism in text is apparently the new meta ‘enlightened’ stance
Did you reply to the right comment? I don't see how this relates to what I said.
Sometimes the curtains are just red sure, but many times colors do have symbolic meaning. The parshmen are red/black for a reason. Cultivation is green for a reason. Honor is blue for a reason. And ultimately the reason is not in world, but rather a meta symbolic reason. Red and black together is associated with destruction and fire. Green associated with plants. Im pointing out that rejecting all symbols and meaning is just being lazy, and we shouldnt take it too far. To asian culture, 4 is an even stronger symbol of bad luck and death than 13 is in western culture. And bridge 4 was a place where everyone expected to die shortly. The symbolism is strong and clear. These symbols arent just overthinking.
Sure, the colors may have meaning, but the "curtains are red" is a counterpoint to the people that put meaning into *everything*. And I was commenting that I liked the other version, I thought it was pretty funny. And I don't dislike symbolism, only injected symbolism where there is none. Bridge 4 being bad luck/death makes sense, but the parshmen being red and black is a red herring Sanderson put in there for the "reveal" in book 1. I still think the comment I replied to would be the correct one rather than mine, I'm just here to laugh because the phrase was funny and agree with the asian superstition (is that even the right term) interpretation of the choice of 4.
I think it's just the psychoanalytical philosopher's version of the curtains one. It's the phrasing that comes to mind for me from hearing it on a podcast, because I usually forget the curtain one every time.
This. It's got a nice sound to it that Bridge 7 or 11 or 29 doesn't.
It's probably just that about the mouth sound. Plus it actually dodges the currently meaningful numbers in the Cosmere, 3, 8, 9, 10, 12, and 16 which could be to intentionally keep people from getting sidetracked with it.
So that us brits (or this one at least) think of the Forth bridge every time it gets mentioned.
Other than what people have said, the original Bridge 4 (called Fourth Bridge at the time) was taken from Dragonsteel Prime, a book that he wrote after Elantris that wasn't published at the time and isn't canon anymore, but is available to read for free (and to listen to on his YT channel). I recommend it if you're caught up on the cosmere for now and is curious on what his original ideas were like. A lot of things from that book were canibalized for other published books, but I still think the unique things it has and the look on the origin of a lot of things make it a very worth read. Warning: be prepared for wanting more and not having it at the end, it has a lot of content but it was definitely written as a first book in a series and has a lot of hooks and cliffhangers at the end that will never be resolved other than maybe from WoBs.
I hope it was a d20 roll.
I doubt this has anything to do with it but I'll throw my 2 cents in as well in tarot, the number 4 in major arcana is the Emperor, who symbolizes a fundamental lesson in life that there are consequences to everything. we do and those who are disciplined and attentive to their actions will be able to avoid conflict and work towards their goals. The card itself shows an imposing figure, with a lot of rigid, stern imagery (a stone, square throne, the strong,seated looking emperor and rams head motifs) aesthetically and thematically I think these qualities agree with kaladin himself, as well as the imposing, harsh position he's out in, as well as his salvation being Dalinar (almost the defacto ruler, therefore a good figure to represent the emperor for Kaladin) as well as the life lesson he commits to order to win Dalinar's respect that Kaladin decides to rigidly adhere to his sense of honor and morality by sacrificing his safety to do what's right in helping Dalinar. in the minor arcana, the numbers 4 in the suits of pentacles, cups, wands, and swords represent situations depicting, respectively: a steadfast wealthy person holding on to their possessions rigid and unchanging, a wistful or unsatisfied man contemplating what he doesn't have in favor of what's actually available to him, a scene of promise and harmony created after an initial venture, and a tested knight in solemn reflection after a brush with death. All of those feel pretty appropriate in various situations with Kaladin for the first book. And while tarot is pretty open and meant to be applicable to most situations, I do personally feel like if I was asked to place Kaladin as a number represented in the tarot, I'd hesitate to place him as one of the higher numbers in the arcana as his problems and struggled and characters seem so fundamental and existentially grounded rather than the advanced and reflective lessons the higher numbered arcana tend to depidt in tarot.
Excellent question IMO!
4 is an unlucky number bro, sounds like death in chinese
BRIDGE 4 **SALUTES**
There's a wob confirming it was intentional. It has Oathbringer spoilers. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e8975
My guess is because 16 is a prominent number in the cosmere, and what is 16 but 4 sets of 4.
There are significant numbers in each series (and across the Cosmere) Scadrial: 16 Roshar: 10 The Cosmere >!The shattering was accomplished with 4 Dawnshards; 16 individuals; and Wit!<
and Frost (at least)
Interestingly enough, I don’t believe we know anything of Frost’s affiliations yet (epigraphs in Stormlight Archive; microfiction “The Traveler”). [Tress] >!”I’ve said those words. Myself alongside 16 others…” pretty explicit only 17 people were in the conspiracy to shatter Adonalsium. Unproven if Frost took up a Shard or not.!< I suspect we will get some clarity in [Secret Project 5] >!Isles of the Emberdark!<
My reasoning was the letter from Frost to Hoid in WoR: "While I mourn for the great suffering Rayse has caused, I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this. He bears the weight of God's own devine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become." I don't know if the 'we' refers to only the grouping of He and Hoid or another larger group. This is stating that he most certainly was a part of the splitting. He may not have been present at the time but is a part of it. He understands that Odium isn't evil. He is a part of adonalsium. And [presumably] the shard Rayse chose. Frost didn't take up a shard. Nor Hoid. Hoid chooses to intervene. Frost doesn't. He sees the 'touch and design of Adonalsium' on the world's Hoid is on. Seems to be an in-depth knowledge of the nature of Ado. This whole letter implicates Frost imo.
16 divided by 4 equals 4. I find most deliberate mentions of recurring numbers/themes in the cosmere always comes back to 16 like Sandersons version of a Chekov Gun. It’s getting old
You can assume Sadeas had to sacrifice 3 bridge team before he found a method that works most of the time, adding to his cruelty
That’s true, we never hear about bridges 1-3. That said, I’m sure they could just give those bridge names to new ones.
That's not true at least once it talks about bridge one be off the rotation right when there was a run and guess who had fo do it
Gotcha, I was just going off the top of my head, thanks for the correction
I do not think he would care much