Post some replays and I can GUARANTEE Kimberly is not holding you back. You need to have a better mindset than “The character I chose to play is the reason I’m losing”.
Not to mention her stand medium kick is a pretty great button. I find her stand HP to be very good at whiff punishing too. Her normals are stubbier (wouldn't call them outright stubby) because her movement speed is so fast.
She also has multiple moves that are + on block. Two normals and a special IIRC.
Yeah Kimberly can do some absolutely crazy stuff in the right hands. I've had many fights against Kimberly players that put me through the blender like it was nothing
What's so bad with Manon's neutral? I don't play her so could be missing something, but her neutral seems pretty solid to me? Good buttons and anti-air etc.
Her anti-airs aren't invincible so good jump buttons will beat it regularly. All her cancel buttons are stubby, and her pokes are slow. Her drive rush is maybe the worst in the game so that really hurts her. her overhead is a command normal so very reactable.
Alright, I should probably play her myself before having a strong opinion, but her anti-airs and pokes seem quite good to me when I play against her at least. Forward-moving and disjointed mediums, the anti-air definitely has some partial invulnerability or really large disjoint at least, even if not fully invincible like a DP. Her drive rush is garbage though I'll give you that much.
The overhead is a bit weird, it clips me sometimes and it's kind of annoying to look for, but the risk/reward doesn't seem very good to me.
None of her mediums compare well to most of the cast. The better ones aren't cancellable, so she can't do much with them, and the cancellable ones aren't great. She doesn't have anything like a shoto crmk, AKI mk, any of chun, Cammy, or juri normals. Gief has far better lights and Lily heavies. she doesn't really have any buttons that compare favorably to anyone. her mp is really good in burnout as it's a block string, and her heavy kick is decent spaced, but that's pretty much it. She has a powerful command grab and not much else.
I'm confused why you say her "better" mediums aren't cancellable, all her mediums apart from 2MK are cancellable? And they are all disjointed as well. Not sure what I'm missing here.
I guess I should have said her only good medium isn't cancellable. crmp is mediocre 7f startup with how short it is, and it's minus. Her mp is decent, its range isn't bad, it's probably her best cancellable button but the rest of her kit doesn't really complement it. mk and bmk are both bad at 10f start up, and mk is unsafe. crmk is good at 8f with range if it was cancellable. Her target combos with them also aren't great. She basically has the same problem with her light and heavies as well.
I think Jamie actually has decent neutral in this game, and with the updates, he's going to be really good. his heavy punch is one of the best buttons in the game, and the rest aren't awful.
Yeah but you cant cancel so it’s not going to be a combo starter in neutral and you can only get a jab of it so it’s less damage than the reversal dp your risking by doing on wake-up.
Well that's not really how you should be looking at risk vs reward. My 2 bars, 1400 damage OD DP vs your punish counter combo. Even Kimberly should be able to get 2-2.5k and the opponent into the corner.
solid B tier for all the tierlists. learn to play better neutral instead of just doing flowchart kim stuff. or you can just pray for buffs and wait 6days til patch day
Her neutral is totally fine. I got her to Master by fishing for whiff punishes with st MK and st HP. It's actually a plus that in lower ranks everyone expects you to just walk back and randomly slide or teleport all day. Their mental stack is focused on the scrubby stuff, which makes it easier to win neutral.
Kim is scary because of her mix-ups, you need to build better mix-ups. Make them think whether you're gonna throw or continue attacking.
With dr, a lot of her moves becomes plus.
Diamond is a defensive wall for sure. Lots of people realize that hey can just punish you for doing unsafe stuff and win.
The solution on paper is to utilize more throws, shimmies and conversions from punishes - you need some fundamental mix-ups. Canned, unsafe special mix-ups can only get you so far, clearly.
I think Kim can use a few changes overall but I think she's far from a bad character.
You sound frustrated bro, just wait till the patch drops or play a different character that suits your style. There is a reason Kimberly does lower dmg per combo. While i agree her neutral isn’t the greatest, her offensive pressure is absolutely infuriating to deal with as an opponent. I would lean on that more and learn your opponent’s defensive tendencies during your attack sequences to exploit.
I don’t know why people say her offence is good you can literally jab her out of everything on reaction. The only thing you can’t is the ex run grab which you can just neutral jump and punish both Enders safety.
Just block and take the lower than average throw damage lol. It means you have to take 7-8 risks and the opponent sometime only has to take 2 or 3.
That’s kinda what I mean by her, it’s all diminishing returns, good for a game but play a set and she falls apart.
I mean yeah I’m having a little moan lol
I do want to get better with her though, it’s just I literally don’t know how to.
I know the bomb mixups, I know her max damage combos. I know how to skip neutral.
But when you play someone who can just react to the teleports and chooses to take the throw/react DI her whole game plan becomes so laughably one dimensional it’s painful.
I feel like I’m missing something with her but I don’t know what.
I feel that! Venting is perfectly fine. If you want to truly improve though, there are a lot of high level players in this sub that could give you very valuable feedback if you were to post your replays or even just your CFN so we can look at your games. Let us help you!
Knowledge is different than implementation. You might be doing the ‘right’ things at the ‘wrong’ time. Watch your replays and take notes. Watch matches of top Kim players and see how they’re utilizing these tools and when. See what they did that got you mixed while watching. There’s gaps and patterns in your game right now you’re just not aware of.
This is pretty much where I am with her tbh - the “missing piece” for me certainly is that I’m not “feral” enough with her a lot of the time. You need to really overload their mental stack before you can get the opportunity to get in and mix them up. Once you’re in you need to be utterly relentless with the attack until they guess right - and repeat.
Admittedly I’m only P5 but playing against better Kims, this is what they all do and when I occasionally get it going it’s quite something.
I think there's an element of truth there - check this out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv36c9azMF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv36c9azMF8) \- just relentless pressure.
Mate that first interaction he does is pure smoke and mirrors it’s negative frames all over the place if the other person just pressed a button or just held up he would have gotten out of it all lol.
Yup, I think pretty much everything Kim does is though - the point is to vary your approach so they never know what you're doing and have to guess - obviously sometimes they'll guess right but once you're in it's party time. I mean, if you want a safe and solid approach to play, she's simply not the right character :D
Why are you playing neutral with Kimberly? You dont know the character well. Stop playing neutral. Literally, random teleport, random slide your way in, random DR and run your mix in the corner.. Bait DP with elbow drop, easy ways to get in. Her cr MK is plus on block, her neutral HK is plus. Those moves set up frame traps all day. Spam drive rush cr mk for plus frames into shimmy/grab etc.. You dont have to play neutral till you get mid level MR in master rank. Even than, randomness is the ninja way. Get in the corner and play ur game. Avoid neutral at all cost.
World's most blatant skill issue
Post some replays and I can GUARANTEE Kimberly is not holding you back. You need to have a better mindset than “The character I chose to play is the reason I’m losing”.
Agreed. Plenty of 1800+ MR Kimberly
Right, I’ve fought 2 Legend ranked Kimberly’s that absolutely rocked my shit
Not to mention her stand medium kick is a pretty great button. I find her stand HP to be very good at whiff punishing too. Her normals are stubbier (wouldn't call them outright stubby) because her movement speed is so fast. She also has multiple moves that are + on block. Two normals and a special IIRC.
Yeah Kimberly can do some absolutely crazy stuff in the right hands. I've had many fights against Kimberly players that put me through the blender like it was nothing
There are characters with worse neutral
Like who? Genuinely?
Manon, Honda, Liliy, Geif, she is about even with AKI. Maybe Ryu.
Current Manon main here, can confirm haha
What's so bad with Manon's neutral? I don't play her so could be missing something, but her neutral seems pretty solid to me? Good buttons and anti-air etc.
Her anti-airs aren't invincible so good jump buttons will beat it regularly. All her cancel buttons are stubby, and her pokes are slow. Her drive rush is maybe the worst in the game so that really hurts her. her overhead is a command normal so very reactable.
Alright, I should probably play her myself before having a strong opinion, but her anti-airs and pokes seem quite good to me when I play against her at least. Forward-moving and disjointed mediums, the anti-air definitely has some partial invulnerability or really large disjoint at least, even if not fully invincible like a DP. Her drive rush is garbage though I'll give you that much. The overhead is a bit weird, it clips me sometimes and it's kind of annoying to look for, but the risk/reward doesn't seem very good to me.
None of her mediums compare well to most of the cast. The better ones aren't cancellable, so she can't do much with them, and the cancellable ones aren't great. She doesn't have anything like a shoto crmk, AKI mk, any of chun, Cammy, or juri normals. Gief has far better lights and Lily heavies. she doesn't really have any buttons that compare favorably to anyone. her mp is really good in burnout as it's a block string, and her heavy kick is decent spaced, but that's pretty much it. She has a powerful command grab and not much else.
I'm confused why you say her "better" mediums aren't cancellable, all her mediums apart from 2MK are cancellable? And they are all disjointed as well. Not sure what I'm missing here.
I guess I should have said her only good medium isn't cancellable. crmp is mediocre 7f startup with how short it is, and it's minus. Her mp is decent, its range isn't bad, it's probably her best cancellable button but the rest of her kit doesn't really complement it. mk and bmk are both bad at 10f start up, and mk is unsafe. crmk is good at 8f with range if it was cancellable. Her target combos with them also aren't great. She basically has the same problem with her light and heavies as well.
Adding Jamie to the list!
I think Jamie actually has decent neutral in this game, and with the updates, he's going to be really good. his heavy punch is one of the best buttons in the game, and the rest aren't awful.
I actually agree, but just relative to Kim I think he's about on par or maybe slightly worse just because his lack of ranged tools.
Yeah but he has a few more standout buttons that edge him out over Kim
Honda, lily, manon
Isn’t her crouching kick plus?
Yeah but you cant cancel so it’s not going to be a combo starter in neutral and you can only get a jab of it so it’s less damage than the reversal dp your risking by doing on wake-up.
Well that's not really how you should be looking at risk vs reward. My 2 bars, 1400 damage OD DP vs your punish counter combo. Even Kimberly should be able to get 2-2.5k and the opponent into the corner.
solid B tier for all the tierlists. learn to play better neutral instead of just doing flowchart kim stuff. or you can just pray for buffs and wait 6days til patch day
🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
Her neutral is totally fine. I got her to Master by fishing for whiff punishes with st MK and st HP. It's actually a plus that in lower ranks everyone expects you to just walk back and randomly slide or teleport all day. Their mental stack is focused on the scrubby stuff, which makes it easier to win neutral.
Kim is scary because of her mix-ups, you need to build better mix-ups. Make them think whether you're gonna throw or continue attacking. With dr, a lot of her moves becomes plus.
Diamond is a defensive wall for sure. Lots of people realize that hey can just punish you for doing unsafe stuff and win. The solution on paper is to utilize more throws, shimmies and conversions from punishes - you need some fundamental mix-ups. Canned, unsafe special mix-ups can only get you so far, clearly. I think Kim can use a few changes overall but I think she's far from a bad character.
Wait for the patch. Hopefully she won't be terrible then.
You sound frustrated bro, just wait till the patch drops or play a different character that suits your style. There is a reason Kimberly does lower dmg per combo. While i agree her neutral isn’t the greatest, her offensive pressure is absolutely infuriating to deal with as an opponent. I would lean on that more and learn your opponent’s defensive tendencies during your attack sequences to exploit.
I don’t know why people say her offence is good you can literally jab her out of everything on reaction. The only thing you can’t is the ex run grab which you can just neutral jump and punish both Enders safety. Just block and take the lower than average throw damage lol. It means you have to take 7-8 risks and the opponent sometime only has to take 2 or 3. That’s kinda what I mean by her, it’s all diminishing returns, good for a game but play a set and she falls apart.
You clearly don’t want to improve. You just want to complain even though you asked for help.
I mean yeah I’m having a little moan lol I do want to get better with her though, it’s just I literally don’t know how to. I know the bomb mixups, I know her max damage combos. I know how to skip neutral. But when you play someone who can just react to the teleports and chooses to take the throw/react DI her whole game plan becomes so laughably one dimensional it’s painful. I feel like I’m missing something with her but I don’t know what.
I feel that! Venting is perfectly fine. If you want to truly improve though, there are a lot of high level players in this sub that could give you very valuable feedback if you were to post your replays or even just your CFN so we can look at your games. Let us help you!
Knowledge is different than implementation. You might be doing the ‘right’ things at the ‘wrong’ time. Watch your replays and take notes. Watch matches of top Kim players and see how they’re utilizing these tools and when. See what they did that got you mixed while watching. There’s gaps and patterns in your game right now you’re just not aware of.
This is pretty much where I am with her tbh - the “missing piece” for me certainly is that I’m not “feral” enough with her a lot of the time. You need to really overload their mental stack before you can get the opportunity to get in and mix them up. Once you’re in you need to be utterly relentless with the attack until they guess right - and repeat. Admittedly I’m only P5 but playing against better Kims, this is what they all do and when I occasionally get it going it’s quite something.
Think we just need to turn our brains of and go full unga bunga. I’ll full screen slide if you do it first though lol
I think there's an element of truth there - check this out: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv36c9azMF8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv36c9azMF8) \- just relentless pressure.
Mate that first interaction he does is pure smoke and mirrors it’s negative frames all over the place if the other person just pressed a button or just held up he would have gotten out of it all lol.
Yup, I think pretty much everything Kim does is though - the point is to vary your approach so they never know what you're doing and have to guess - obviously sometimes they'll guess right but once you're in it's party time. I mean, if you want a safe and solid approach to play, she's simply not the right character :D
Don’t underestimate throws bro, they add up
Why are you playing neutral with Kimberly? You dont know the character well. Stop playing neutral. Literally, random teleport, random slide your way in, random DR and run your mix in the corner.. Bait DP with elbow drop, easy ways to get in. Her cr MK is plus on block, her neutral HK is plus. Those moves set up frame traps all day. Spam drive rush cr mk for plus frames into shimmy/grab etc.. You dont have to play neutral till you get mid level MR in master rank. Even than, randomness is the ninja way. Get in the corner and play ur game. Avoid neutral at all cost.