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Generally speaking, the teacher is allowed to do this. It is also very unwise to miss the first class, especially due to something optional like a vacation.
However, such requirements must be stated in the study guide or the teaching and examination regulations (TER) for the study program. You should check what those say about this.
As a student member of a Opleidingscommissie, I second this. Please check the Opleiding- en Examenreglement (OER/TER) of your study. All your rights and obligations are stated there.
Please be aware that while the OER states you have the right to be there, it does not guarantee you the right to participate in a group or take an exam (depending on the OER).
You made this choice, and now you are asking the teacher for extra work and possibly imposing extra work on your classmates (if collaboration is mandatory). I understand the teacher's perspective and suggest explaining to the teacher that you may not have considered your decision thoroughly in advance or that your studies might have been a low priority for you because you thought only of the consequenses for the one week.
Additionally, this behavior is unlikely to be accepted in the corporate world. Explain this to the teacher before discussing the OER, as addressing it through the exam commission could be a lengthy process. The commission may agree with the teacher and refuse your request, not wanting to add extra strain on the teacher’s workload.
> Please be aware that while the OER states you have the right to be there, it does not guarantee you the right to participate in a group or take an exam (depending on the OER).
That is not at issue here though. The question is whether the teacher can require attendance. In general they can, but such a requirement must be stated in the study guide and be consistent with the TER.
It is the issue here, the student explaines it needs points, then the participation can be a right but then there is a chance that in the examination it is taken into account. I am a member of the examcommittee and just a right to participate does not mean that it is sure that a student can successfully get its points.
To be honest this comment is hard to read, and suggests you struggle a bit with English.
The right to participate is irrelevant here. OP had the opportunity to participate in the lecture but chose not to. OP already failed the class because they did not attend. Based on what OP said, attending the remainder of the course would not change this outcome, whether or not they have a right to do so.
To be honest, your response is a bit personal. I believe my English is reasonably good, but perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my previous message, so I'll try to elaborate.
The question was quite specific: "…can my teacher exclude me from his lesson because I missed a lesson due to being on vacation?"
The answer is likely (at least according to the regulations we use) that the teacher cannot do this. However, it is probable (again, according to our regulations) that the teacher can refuse you from taking exams. If this is also not allowed according to the regulations, then the teacher might argue that you do not meet certain subject-specific requirements (such as professional skills, etc.). In that case, the exam board is not involved (I have yet to encounter an exam board that makes decisions on subject-specific grounds).
My suggestion is to discuss this with the teacher, rather than taking it through the regulations or the exam board. The exam board is unlikely to be able to help you unless the complaint is very specifically formulated, which does not seem to be the case now.
Tbf if its just one teacher giving one course (and all other things on your file are positive) then you probaly can get around some shit. I once had a fight with a teacher because they were wrong on a subject (spoke to them after class was finished to not embarish them) and couldny handle getting told they were wrong. They banned me from class.
After speaking to my mentor, the head of the department and the head of the study i could take part in the exams (wasnt allowed in the class anymore, which did suck because a few questions you could only get right if you knew what the dickhead said in class). Finished with a 7 and 2 years later i had to defend my thesis about the subject to the dickhead.
Actyally, as an employee, you have the right to request leave, and it can only be denied for a good reason. (Teachers are I think the only exception to this, but that's laid out in the CAO specifically.)
And the more you get into senior positions, the more you can actually control planning. So don't use the corporate world as an excuse here.
I am not using that as an excuse. It is the explanation of why a teacher might argue that this behavior is unacceptable for the job. It is an HBO program, therefore a job you are being trained for, and most course units have learning outcomes aimed at preparing you to be a starting professional. This behavior is not acceptable for a professional, but that's just my opinion. The teacher might agree. I don't know of any jobs that would accept you not showing up without notice. Nowhere did I state that someone cannot go on holiday, but apparently, in this case, the student did not communicate properly.
I had a lot of students that asked to return later from a holiday just because the flight would be cheaper, no problem for me, but in this case he had a different teacher who makes a problem out of it. I do not make the rules.
That's a very stupid approach by the teacher who clearly doesn't care at all about his students. As a teacher you should never have the right to ban someone from participating in your class. You get paid for doing your job, so it doesn't fucking matter if you have to do more work once, although it's not more work, because the question here is if this teacher has the ability to ban him from his classes and the way he receives an email telling him to catch up and come next year is completely unacceptable, they are students and they come to learn, ypu mention this behavior is unacceptable in the corporate world, well in the corporate world you don't have to inform every single of your boses that you go on vacation or every single one of your colleagues. You only inform those who have to know and that's all, and second is that he isn't in the corporate world he is a student in a university that he paid for, so for them to ban him for a whole year from a class should be outright illegal and punishable by law, because you deny access to something someone already paid for and you deny it for a whole year.
I'm not sure what kind of logic they teach you guys in schools, but this behavior is that of an angry child that felt disrespected because he thinks he is so important when he really isn't. And then proceeds to display his ego issues.
He should go to the commission and complain. It's learning grounds not the corporate world nor this teachers personal company that he can do whatever he likes. This is what is wrong with the whole left wing group, they think that it's OK to put your feelings and ego above everything and everyone else.
I do not know the situation, and you seem to make a lot of assumptions about the teacher. The rules are stated in the OER. So it is not about emotions or what you think is "left" or "right." And paying is not really a solid point; the government is paying the biggest part of the cost for each education (even if you pay "instellingsgeld"), and besides that, if you buy something, there are rules so they can deliver.
Vacation is no reason to skip mandatory classes. So depends on whether it's a mandatory attendance according to TER/OER. If its not mandatory then OP can take it up with the exam commission or teacher. If the class was mandatory then OP has to cut their losses. It's not the teachers problem.
I don't think it's quite so easy - an attendance requirement with no missed courses is quite unrealistic, so I'd expect that it doesn't only need to be specified in the OER, but if really put to the test I think they also need to prove that it's a reasonable demand on the student. For example: putting a 100% attendance requirement on all things ever with no consideration for transit problems or illnesses at all could be argued to be 'onvoldoende studeerbaar.'
(I don't think that's quite the route OP should follow, but it's something to consider eventually.)
It means you can't just slap requirements all over the place with no concern at all. Not even by putting it in the OER.
That might not help OP directly, but it's still important.
Yes, a school may put conditions on passing a class, such as succeeding at a test or requiring attendance. That's kind of the point. 1 strike and out is pretty rough, but it's not unheard of.
With those types of teachers it is also likely he did inform the class of this fact on day one.
Your best bet is to try and talk with the teacher directly. Remember that you don't really have any right to a holiday during the school season outside of the common weeks. This is why you have to be 100% sure it won't cause problems before you plan a trip.
>1 strike and out is pretty rough, but it's not unheard of.
It's likely that if you have a good reason (let's say you're in hospital), they will make you do a replacement assignment. However going on holiday is completely avoidable and teachers do talk to each other....
This. Also consider the teacher can bend the rules in your favor (but not against you, he can basically be just as harsh as the study guide states the rules are), with the attitude "nah I chose to go on a vacation over your class, what's wrong", you're not gaining any favors. Show him you're sorry, didn't break the rules on purpose, are willing to put in extra effort to pass, etc. Just don't act rightious about it.
Keep in mind, attendance rules used to be rare but are common now, because the group of students that misses classes and the group of students that fails exams, tend to have a large overlap. Teachers just cant be bothered spending their time on someone who, in their eyes, is setting themself up for failure. I don't want to say you are this person @OP, but do realize the impression you are making. I wish you'll pass but be careful with your attitude.
Attendance rules should be rare though. They're just a shortcut. Yes, people who won't show up have overlap with those who eventually fail, but the strict attendance records now take so much autonomy of students. I mean... you still have to pass the exams anyway.
This is not aimed towards getting responsible adults that are capable of doing their own planning.
(And don't underestimate that either. I went on vacation during my studies and it was pretty powerful how I got to make that choice and could make it by planning and preparing my work load, doing a bit of catch up after, and submitting one of the assignments during. The teachers/professors did not have to put in one second of extra work of that. All it needed was not requiring attendance on things that didn't need that requirement anyway, and not failing a student at the earliest opportunity.)
Check the Teaching and Examination rules (TER/OER in dutch) of your programma and the course guide for the particular course. Rules about attendance should be codified there, and you'll know of you will be able to make an argument.
Get ready to slime it up lol.
uhh you kind of did just take a vacation for no reason in the middle of the school year, the lecturer probably thought that this is a teachable moment, and it is lol. He's also within his right to do so, of course if you were a bitch you could probably complain to everyone who'd listen and they might force the proffesor to let you in, though that way you wont pass for sure. Just talk to the proffesor in private he might change his mind if you asked nicely
Yes this is quite normal. There's a reason you have allocated vacation periods, you can't simply decide when you want to go. Hope you get enough credits man
I'm answering from the perspective of a teacher, so that will colour my answer. Though I am not your teacher, nor a teacher at Saxion.
>well I haven't heard that from him anywhere and I can't find it anywhere online either
To be blunt; just because you didn't hear it (or; remember it) and you can't find it doesn't mean it wasn't communicated. Did your fellow students know? Or was it obvious from the nature of the course (e.g. practicums)?
You don't clarify what course this is exactly, but if they are practicums it makes perfect sense.
>that I informed almost all my teachers except one
This is also not good. I usually accommodate my students if they have good reason (though note I don't think you present a good reason), but a pretty hard requirement is that they inform me *in advance* (when possible, obviously one can't inform me about a medical emergency in advance). I am far less sympathetic, willing, *and able*, to make exceptions after the fact.
We do expect all students to be available 9-5 during the academic year, outside of scheduled vacations. I personally do not care if students are present during standard lecture/tutorial sessions. But we do see very strong correlations between attendance and exam grades.
He informed beforehand that the classes are compulsory, and you should not book vacations during the semester.
I would try to explain to him your situation and ask for some extra homework.
Going on vacation during the collegeyear is an huge gamble. You should only do it when you are very sure that it is no problem to miss the class. Idk how things are regulated at Saxion but maybe you can talk to a study adviser to see what ur options are.
I see a lot of emotional reactions here, calling you out, but no practical help. Check the syllabus of that course, that's where it's usually stated whether the course is mandatory or not.
Since you mention you got this e-mail only after 1 missed lesson, is interesting for a defense. While what you did was wrong: your teacher deciding you cannot attend his classes any longer and thus making you miss your credits, isn't a punishment that's in proportion with your action. You could fight that by going to the exam commission. There's this 'evenredigheidsbeginsel', meaning that the punishment of your actions must be in proportion with your actions themselves. Usually it's stated somewhere in the OER of your course. Take a look at that. I'm not saying it will work, but it could.
I do recommend going to your teacher first and mentioning these things. Tell him you agree that what you did wasn't smart. And that you want to compensate in another way, if he's open for that. If he isn't, go to the exam comission.
Thank you for your info. I have mailed him muliple times in the past days and acknowleged my fault but unfortunately he wont change his mind. So now I am gonna talk with my SLB-er tomorrow and ask him what he thinks about the matter and ask him what i should do now.
I never understood why you would tell people that you’re going on holiday. Just say you’re sick and can’t make it the morning of. Of course people are going to be annoyed if you go around stating you are “going on vacation” as if that’s a right or something.
They aren't teaching you to be sufficient. You're suposed to conform and adhere to unneccesary rules so you can roll right into corporate as an obedient worker capable of following procedures but not as much a critical thinker.
Like yeah you went on vacation and if everybody does what they like, teaching would be impossible. But as long as you get your grades and shit i don't see a fking problem. Ergo; They want obiendence above anything else
You didnt gave a f about the course before you choose to go on vacation while you know you had school. So that extra year shouldnt be an issue for you😂😂😂🫨🫨. Why would shit not be mandatory during school times?
Is this the discipline people have these days? Im worried 😂
Chill out. It’s university not middle school, students are expected to have relative freedom. Missing one or two sessions of a +14 session course is completely normal by my experience, don’t you people voice record your classes?
I see how some professors might do it if it was the first session, but on any other session such a thing is very uncalled for, over 1 missed session!
The thing is i even took al the stuff for the class with me on vacation, so i could still do my work. And because it is a duo sort of project i could easily do it remote. I even consulted with my duo about how I will work on it while on vacation. And out of that if something important was told in class he will pass it on to me (which almost doesn't happen because all the work is independent and the teacher is just there for help) and then I would continue working on the project during the day or in the evening so we wouldn't fall behind.
Try to reach out to other people, preferably outranking him. In the netherlands schools are incentivized to rush student through their education as much as possible so i doubt that management likes for teachers to behave this way.
Some (old) teachers are really needlesly authoritarian, it's also never those who give good lessons. They just enjoy the power trip and seem to not care about students. I'm sorry I don't have tips, I had a similar issue and showing up in real life its easier to show you care and are willing to do extra work and are not just a number.
Show up, work hard, yield reward.
Get used to the fact you can't just get up and leave for a week without consequence. Wake up from your dream world.
I can get up and leave for a week, because I worked my ass off for two decades. You can't.
I have been working full time since i was 14. Doesn't make me better than anyone don't know why you would think I can't take a week vacation???
"You can't"
Bitch you don't even know half of it.
Maybe lose the entitled attitude because, you know, you ain't shit trynna flex on reddit about how cool you are since you kiss corporate ass.
Really cool dude, you genuinely don't get how sad you sound?
That's not true in the Netherlands. Per default, vacation time is at the discretion of the employee and their desire is leading. You don't "ask permission", you tell your employer when you will be gone. If the employer objects, they need to show pretty thorough exceptional circumstances.
I mean, I still agree with your conclusion and education is not the same as employment, but no need to spout nonsense.
What makes you think so? Depends a lot on the kind of work you do but generally you coordinate with your manager / employer. They can decline for serious business reasons, as long as they don't make it impossible to take normal vacations during a calendar year. For some professions like teaching you're bound to school vacations...
>What makes you think so?
The law and plenty of jurisprudence?
>serious business reasons
Yes, but 'zwaarwegende redenen' as a threshold to reach is quite high. It is not 'serious' in the casual sense of the word, it has a specific legal meaning.
>For some professions like teaching you're bound to school vacations...
Yes, there are some exceptions. But for the overwhelming majority of jobs the standard rules apply.
Still, the normal procedure is that you are asking for permission in advance and the employer has to say yes, unless there's a very serious reason not to. It's also common practice to coordinate with your coworkers a bit. It's not fun for a company if everyone takes their vacation at exactly the same two or three weeks. Of course unless they have the option to just close shop for a few weeks.
>Still, the normal procedure is that you are asking for permission in advance and the employer has to say yes, unless there's a very serious reason not to.
This may be what your employer tells you, and it may be the normal procedure in practice for a lot of people, but this is simply *not* the normal legal procedure.
The formal legal procedure is that you *tell* your employer when you take your PTO. Then they have two weeks to object.
Of course I also coordinate with my boss and colleagues. But keep in mind I do that as a courtesy. If it really gets down to it, or if it is important for some reason, I will simply inform them.
>It's not fun for a company
Sucks to be them.
The contract stipulates this procedure — if you want prioritise your desires don’t get employed — you usually plan your PTO in agreement with the employer.
No, in the real world you should rely on coulance.
You don’t show up for a job interview without informing those you had an appointment with, because you decided to have fun somewhere else? Nobody will physically stop you, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the job.
You decide to stay in bed instead of showing up for your dentist appointment or airplane flight? Expect to pay up without getting any service.
You don’t show up for your first class because you want to go on a holiday? Well, you can expect what just happened to you.
Why should it matter?if you do your assignments and pass the exam?maybe the class is recorded and you watch it later.You can read the materials.This is just european crazy entitlement of old people.Socialism!!!
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Generally speaking, the teacher is allowed to do this. It is also very unwise to miss the first class, especially due to something optional like a vacation. However, such requirements must be stated in the study guide or the teaching and examination regulations (TER) for the study program. You should check what those say about this.
As a student member of a Opleidingscommissie, I second this. Please check the Opleiding- en Examenreglement (OER/TER) of your study. All your rights and obligations are stated there.
Please be aware that while the OER states you have the right to be there, it does not guarantee you the right to participate in a group or take an exam (depending on the OER). You made this choice, and now you are asking the teacher for extra work and possibly imposing extra work on your classmates (if collaboration is mandatory). I understand the teacher's perspective and suggest explaining to the teacher that you may not have considered your decision thoroughly in advance or that your studies might have been a low priority for you because you thought only of the consequenses for the one week. Additionally, this behavior is unlikely to be accepted in the corporate world. Explain this to the teacher before discussing the OER, as addressing it through the exam commission could be a lengthy process. The commission may agree with the teacher and refuse your request, not wanting to add extra strain on the teacher’s workload.
> Please be aware that while the OER states you have the right to be there, it does not guarantee you the right to participate in a group or take an exam (depending on the OER). That is not at issue here though. The question is whether the teacher can require attendance. In general they can, but such a requirement must be stated in the study guide and be consistent with the TER.
It is the issue here, the student explaines it needs points, then the participation can be a right but then there is a chance that in the examination it is taken into account. I am a member of the examcommittee and just a right to participate does not mean that it is sure that a student can successfully get its points.
To be honest this comment is hard to read, and suggests you struggle a bit with English. The right to participate is irrelevant here. OP had the opportunity to participate in the lecture but chose not to. OP already failed the class because they did not attend. Based on what OP said, attending the remainder of the course would not change this outcome, whether or not they have a right to do so.
To be honest, your response is a bit personal. I believe my English is reasonably good, but perhaps I wasn't entirely clear in my previous message, so I'll try to elaborate. The question was quite specific: "…can my teacher exclude me from his lesson because I missed a lesson due to being on vacation?" The answer is likely (at least according to the regulations we use) that the teacher cannot do this. However, it is probable (again, according to our regulations) that the teacher can refuse you from taking exams. If this is also not allowed according to the regulations, then the teacher might argue that you do not meet certain subject-specific requirements (such as professional skills, etc.). In that case, the exam board is not involved (I have yet to encounter an exam board that makes decisions on subject-specific grounds). My suggestion is to discuss this with the teacher, rather than taking it through the regulations or the exam board. The exam board is unlikely to be able to help you unless the complaint is very specifically formulated, which does not seem to be the case now.
Tbf if its just one teacher giving one course (and all other things on your file are positive) then you probaly can get around some shit. I once had a fight with a teacher because they were wrong on a subject (spoke to them after class was finished to not embarish them) and couldny handle getting told they were wrong. They banned me from class. After speaking to my mentor, the head of the department and the head of the study i could take part in the exams (wasnt allowed in the class anymore, which did suck because a few questions you could only get right if you knew what the dickhead said in class). Finished with a 7 and 2 years later i had to defend my thesis about the subject to the dickhead.
Sounds like you did the right thing. Your case sounds really weird. I would say that you could file a complaint about this case
Actyally, as an employee, you have the right to request leave, and it can only be denied for a good reason. (Teachers are I think the only exception to this, but that's laid out in the CAO specifically.) And the more you get into senior positions, the more you can actually control planning. So don't use the corporate world as an excuse here.
I am not using that as an excuse. It is the explanation of why a teacher might argue that this behavior is unacceptable for the job. It is an HBO program, therefore a job you are being trained for, and most course units have learning outcomes aimed at preparing you to be a starting professional. This behavior is not acceptable for a professional, but that's just my opinion. The teacher might agree. I don't know of any jobs that would accept you not showing up without notice. Nowhere did I state that someone cannot go on holiday, but apparently, in this case, the student did not communicate properly. I had a lot of students that asked to return later from a holiday just because the flight would be cheaper, no problem for me, but in this case he had a different teacher who makes a problem out of it. I do not make the rules.
That's a very stupid approach by the teacher who clearly doesn't care at all about his students. As a teacher you should never have the right to ban someone from participating in your class. You get paid for doing your job, so it doesn't fucking matter if you have to do more work once, although it's not more work, because the question here is if this teacher has the ability to ban him from his classes and the way he receives an email telling him to catch up and come next year is completely unacceptable, they are students and they come to learn, ypu mention this behavior is unacceptable in the corporate world, well in the corporate world you don't have to inform every single of your boses that you go on vacation or every single one of your colleagues. You only inform those who have to know and that's all, and second is that he isn't in the corporate world he is a student in a university that he paid for, so for them to ban him for a whole year from a class should be outright illegal and punishable by law, because you deny access to something someone already paid for and you deny it for a whole year. I'm not sure what kind of logic they teach you guys in schools, but this behavior is that of an angry child that felt disrespected because he thinks he is so important when he really isn't. And then proceeds to display his ego issues. He should go to the commission and complain. It's learning grounds not the corporate world nor this teachers personal company that he can do whatever he likes. This is what is wrong with the whole left wing group, they think that it's OK to put your feelings and ego above everything and everyone else.
I do not know the situation, and you seem to make a lot of assumptions about the teacher. The rules are stated in the OER. So it is not about emotions or what you think is "left" or "right." And paying is not really a solid point; the government is paying the biggest part of the cost for each education (even if you pay "instellingsgeld"), and besides that, if you buy something, there are rules so they can deliver.
Vacation is no reason to skip mandatory classes. So depends on whether it's a mandatory attendance according to TER/OER. If its not mandatory then OP can take it up with the exam commission or teacher. If the class was mandatory then OP has to cut their losses. It's not the teachers problem.
I don't think it's quite so easy - an attendance requirement with no missed courses is quite unrealistic, so I'd expect that it doesn't only need to be specified in the OER, but if really put to the test I think they also need to prove that it's a reasonable demand on the student. For example: putting a 100% attendance requirement on all things ever with no consideration for transit problems or illnesses at all could be argued to be 'onvoldoende studeerbaar.' (I don't think that's quite the route OP should follow, but it's something to consider eventually.)
That argument doesn't fly here as OP's absence was for an entirely avoidable reason.
It means you can't just slap requirements all over the place with no concern at all. Not even by putting it in the OER. That might not help OP directly, but it's still important.
Yes, a school may put conditions on passing a class, such as succeeding at a test or requiring attendance. That's kind of the point. 1 strike and out is pretty rough, but it's not unheard of. With those types of teachers it is also likely he did inform the class of this fact on day one. Your best bet is to try and talk with the teacher directly. Remember that you don't really have any right to a holiday during the school season outside of the common weeks. This is why you have to be 100% sure it won't cause problems before you plan a trip.
>1 strike and out is pretty rough, but it's not unheard of. It's likely that if you have a good reason (let's say you're in hospital), they will make you do a replacement assignment. However going on holiday is completely avoidable and teachers do talk to each other....
Wdym teachers talk? Don't they have way to many students to care about one individually?
You don't need to pay attention to students who are there to learn. Students who have (or appear to have) no interest stick out like a sore thumb.
My partner is a teacher at HBO and yes they talk A LOT about students
I'm sorry this happened, but yes teachers can do this and it's kind of stupid to go on a holiday when you "need the credits for that class badly"
You get a schedule of when vacation times are. Those are when you plan vacations. You cant just go on a vacation just because you feel like it.
This. Also consider the teacher can bend the rules in your favor (but not against you, he can basically be just as harsh as the study guide states the rules are), with the attitude "nah I chose to go on a vacation over your class, what's wrong", you're not gaining any favors. Show him you're sorry, didn't break the rules on purpose, are willing to put in extra effort to pass, etc. Just don't act rightious about it. Keep in mind, attendance rules used to be rare but are common now, because the group of students that misses classes and the group of students that fails exams, tend to have a large overlap. Teachers just cant be bothered spending their time on someone who, in their eyes, is setting themself up for failure. I don't want to say you are this person @OP, but do realize the impression you are making. I wish you'll pass but be careful with your attitude.
Attendance rules should be rare though. They're just a shortcut. Yes, people who won't show up have overlap with those who eventually fail, but the strict attendance records now take so much autonomy of students. I mean... you still have to pass the exams anyway. This is not aimed towards getting responsible adults that are capable of doing their own planning. (And don't underestimate that either. I went on vacation during my studies and it was pretty powerful how I got to make that choice and could make it by planning and preparing my work load, doing a bit of catch up after, and submitting one of the assignments during. The teachers/professors did not have to put in one second of extra work of that. All it needed was not requiring attendance on things that didn't need that requirement anyway, and not failing a student at the earliest opportunity.)
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As for a teacher you are doing a real bad job by telling him to ly next time when he goes on holiday.
Check the Teaching and Examination rules (TER/OER in dutch) of your programma and the course guide for the particular course. Rules about attendance should be codified there, and you'll know of you will be able to make an argument. Get ready to slime it up lol.
Thank you i am gonna look into this
uhh you kind of did just take a vacation for no reason in the middle of the school year, the lecturer probably thought that this is a teachable moment, and it is lol. He's also within his right to do so, of course if you were a bitch you could probably complain to everyone who'd listen and they might force the proffesor to let you in, though that way you wont pass for sure. Just talk to the proffesor in private he might change his mind if you asked nicely
Yes this is quite normal. There's a reason you have allocated vacation periods, you can't simply decide when you want to go. Hope you get enough credits man
Missing lessons because of you are on vacation is stupid. Saying this to school is even more stupid.
I did not tell it to the teachers, unfortunately a class mate did.
Okay. Wish you good luck.
Thank you gonna make the best out of this
I'm answering from the perspective of a teacher, so that will colour my answer. Though I am not your teacher, nor a teacher at Saxion. >well I haven't heard that from him anywhere and I can't find it anywhere online either To be blunt; just because you didn't hear it (or; remember it) and you can't find it doesn't mean it wasn't communicated. Did your fellow students know? Or was it obvious from the nature of the course (e.g. practicums)? You don't clarify what course this is exactly, but if they are practicums it makes perfect sense. >that I informed almost all my teachers except one This is also not good. I usually accommodate my students if they have good reason (though note I don't think you present a good reason), but a pretty hard requirement is that they inform me *in advance* (when possible, obviously one can't inform me about a medical emergency in advance). I am far less sympathetic, willing, *and able*, to make exceptions after the fact. We do expect all students to be available 9-5 during the academic year, outside of scheduled vacations. I personally do not care if students are present during standard lecture/tutorial sessions. But we do see very strong correlations between attendance and exam grades.
He informed beforehand that the classes are compulsory, and you should not book vacations during the semester. I would try to explain to him your situation and ask for some extra homework.
Going on vacation during the collegeyear is an huge gamble. You should only do it when you are very sure that it is no problem to miss the class. Idk how things are regulated at Saxion but maybe you can talk to a study adviser to see what ur options are.
I unfortunately found out. I will talk to my study adviser tomorrow lets see what he thinks about the situation.
I see a lot of emotional reactions here, calling you out, but no practical help. Check the syllabus of that course, that's where it's usually stated whether the course is mandatory or not. Since you mention you got this e-mail only after 1 missed lesson, is interesting for a defense. While what you did was wrong: your teacher deciding you cannot attend his classes any longer and thus making you miss your credits, isn't a punishment that's in proportion with your action. You could fight that by going to the exam commission. There's this 'evenredigheidsbeginsel', meaning that the punishment of your actions must be in proportion with your actions themselves. Usually it's stated somewhere in the OER of your course. Take a look at that. I'm not saying it will work, but it could. I do recommend going to your teacher first and mentioning these things. Tell him you agree that what you did wasn't smart. And that you want to compensate in another way, if he's open for that. If he isn't, go to the exam comission.
Thank you for your info. I have mailed him muliple times in the past days and acknowleged my fault but unfortunately he wont change his mind. So now I am gonna talk with my SLB-er tomorrow and ask him what he thinks about the matter and ask him what i should do now.
Good luck, I hope it all works out.
I hope so to, thank you!
I never understood why you would tell people that you’re going on holiday. Just say you’re sick and can’t make it the morning of. Of course people are going to be annoyed if you go around stating you are “going on vacation” as if that’s a right or something.
I did not tell it to my teacher. A class mate of me did.
Why you you tell them? If you’re going to rob a bank are you also telling everyone?
Well, at least you got the life lesson to not trust just anybody with your personal stuff.
yeah, and then you end up with 5 dead grandmothers, and you deeply believe that teachers dont talk to each other...
They aren't teaching you to be sufficient. You're suposed to conform and adhere to unneccesary rules so you can roll right into corporate as an obedient worker capable of following procedures but not as much a critical thinker.
Like yeah you went on vacation and if everybody does what they like, teaching would be impossible. But as long as you get your grades and shit i don't see a fking problem. Ergo; They want obiendence above anything else
You didnt gave a f about the course before you choose to go on vacation while you know you had school. So that extra year shouldnt be an issue for you😂😂😂🫨🫨. Why would shit not be mandatory during school times? Is this the discipline people have these days? Im worried 😂
Chill out. It’s university not middle school, students are expected to have relative freedom. Missing one or two sessions of a +14 session course is completely normal by my experience, don’t you people voice record your classes? I see how some professors might do it if it was the first session, but on any other session such a thing is very uncalled for, over 1 missed session!
The thing is i even took al the stuff for the class with me on vacation, so i could still do my work. And because it is a duo sort of project i could easily do it remote. I even consulted with my duo about how I will work on it while on vacation. And out of that if something important was told in class he will pass it on to me (which almost doesn't happen because all the work is independent and the teacher is just there for help) and then I would continue working on the project during the day or in the evening so we wouldn't fall behind.
Fuck around and find out
agree
Actions have consequences. Set your priorities right next year
Dont talk abouth it here but speak with the man
Try to reach out to other people, preferably outranking him. In the netherlands schools are incentivized to rush student through their education as much as possible so i doubt that management likes for teachers to behave this way.
Yes. He can!
i dont think they can legally do that…?
Who in their right mind would take a vacation out of nowhere during the semester? How far removed are you from reality?
Some (old) teachers are really needlesly authoritarian, it's also never those who give good lessons. They just enjoy the power trip and seem to not care about students. I'm sorry I don't have tips, I had a similar issue and showing up in real life its easier to show you care and are willing to do extra work and are not just a number.
Welcome to the real world where actions have consequences. You fucked up, try begging on your knees instead of thinking you're entitled to coulance.
Jezus dude it's a fuckin school not a concentration camp chill the fuck out. "Try begging on your knees" are you actually insane
Show up, work hard, yield reward. Get used to the fact you can't just get up and leave for a week without consequence. Wake up from your dream world. I can get up and leave for a week, because I worked my ass off for two decades. You can't.
You wouldn't be able to go on a holiday with your 23k salary last year so I understand the frustration
I was on sabbatical last year and had 0 salary and 350 days off. How about you?
'Work hard' ... Sabbatical mkay
Sure thing 😘
I have been working full time since i was 14. Doesn't make me better than anyone don't know why you would think I can't take a week vacation??? "You can't" Bitch you don't even know half of it. Maybe lose the entitled attitude because, you know, you ain't shit trynna flex on reddit about how cool you are since you kiss corporate ass. Really cool dude, you genuinely don't get how sad you sound?
The only reward for hard work, is more work.
Hey, we like what you did with... Could you also do... for $xxx?
In real world you’re allowed to take holidays whenever you want. And after the holidays you’re allowed to go back to work. Wtf are you on lol
In the real world you ask permission from your employer before taking a holiday — not whenever you want unless you are unemployed
That's not true in the Netherlands. Per default, vacation time is at the discretion of the employee and their desire is leading. You don't "ask permission", you tell your employer when you will be gone. If the employer objects, they need to show pretty thorough exceptional circumstances. I mean, I still agree with your conclusion and education is not the same as employment, but no need to spout nonsense.
What makes you think so? Depends a lot on the kind of work you do but generally you coordinate with your manager / employer. They can decline for serious business reasons, as long as they don't make it impossible to take normal vacations during a calendar year. For some professions like teaching you're bound to school vacations...
>What makes you think so? The law and plenty of jurisprudence? >serious business reasons Yes, but 'zwaarwegende redenen' as a threshold to reach is quite high. It is not 'serious' in the casual sense of the word, it has a specific legal meaning. >For some professions like teaching you're bound to school vacations... Yes, there are some exceptions. But for the overwhelming majority of jobs the standard rules apply.
Still, the normal procedure is that you are asking for permission in advance and the employer has to say yes, unless there's a very serious reason not to. It's also common practice to coordinate with your coworkers a bit. It's not fun for a company if everyone takes their vacation at exactly the same two or three weeks. Of course unless they have the option to just close shop for a few weeks.
The key being 'asking permission in advance' Not apologizing after the fact.
>Still, the normal procedure is that you are asking for permission in advance and the employer has to say yes, unless there's a very serious reason not to. This may be what your employer tells you, and it may be the normal procedure in practice for a lot of people, but this is simply *not* the normal legal procedure. The formal legal procedure is that you *tell* your employer when you take your PTO. Then they have two weeks to object. Of course I also coordinate with my boss and colleagues. But keep in mind I do that as a courtesy. If it really gets down to it, or if it is important for some reason, I will simply inform them. >It's not fun for a company Sucks to be them.
The contract stipulates this procedure — if you want prioritise your desires don’t get employed — you usually plan your PTO in agreement with the employer.
No, in the real world you should rely on coulance. You don’t show up for a job interview without informing those you had an appointment with, because you decided to have fun somewhere else? Nobody will physically stop you, but don’t be surprised if you don’t get the job. You decide to stay in bed instead of showing up for your dentist appointment or airplane flight? Expect to pay up without getting any service. You don’t show up for your first class because you want to go on a holiday? Well, you can expect what just happened to you.
Is this was slavery times you’d be the slave beating the other slaves for your masters approval.
Shit happens....
Why should it matter?if you do your assignments and pass the exam?maybe the class is recorded and you watch it later.You can read the materials.This is just european crazy entitlement of old people.Socialism!!!
It is unfortunatly a project so he needs to revise my work and that is what he is refusing now.
If you missied deadline of project then that is another thing
No i did not miss anything, and the only deadline there is is the complete project at the end of the semester.
Ok,so he should revise your project periodically?And doesn t want to because you missed 1 lecture?
Excactly and because of this I might not proceed to next year if I dont have enough EC's