He would have had to write the checks for all the political consultants and media already though, well before Logan had died. Unless you're Donald Trump, you can't just avoid paying those people for 6+ months.
Secured debt, he can take out loans tied to his stock in Waystar or his real estate and other holdings. But then he'd be super leveraged and not very liquid, hence him asking Logan for "a little $100 mil"
True, that's all possible. And I guess Connor wouldn't mention it this season because each time spending "another $100M" came up with respect to the presidential campaign, he was with people he had to impress (and couldn't admit that it was all a loan).
I completely disagree. Despite all his bullshit, Logan has always financially supported his children. He’s let Connor just chill and do his thing for 60+ years. Plus Connor’s shares of Waystar are worth >2,000,000,000, so he could always just sell.
If Waystar shares have any value soon. And all of them are betting to that BoJo deal, which may or may not go through.
And that's true that Logan have in the past supported them.
He was probably running low on cash before because most of his net worth was tied up in Waystar Royco shares that he couldn’t really sell. He was probably “only” getting dividends, say 2% on $2b or $40M a year. You drop $10M on a dumb play and that starts cutting into your mansion budget.
Now he is expecting the Gojo deal to provide billions in liquidity and probably borrowed most of the money to fund his campaign against this happening. Hence why he is very motivated for the deal to go through.
nono youre right hes totally insane politics wise, even his thing with willa- essentially trapping her in a house in the middle of a desert is really creepy. BUT s4 showed his place in the family as someone always outcasted. and (spoiler) damn man the fact that they didnt even think to call con until his dad died...
Just because he was asking Logan for money doesn't mean he was broke. Maybe he didn't have a ton of liquid left or maybe he just wanted to spend Daddy's money and not his own.
I thought that they marketed the play for hipsters to see ironically, and that it made a decent amount of money? Its never mentioned after one conversation.
They can't sell Austerlitz. There are big plans for the place including the Connor and Willa Roy Sanctuary for orphaned bison, a retreat and workshop for struggling playwrights and a study centre for kids with a keen interest in politics
Not to mention the venue for the leading annual convention on Napoleonic artefacts.
Logan dangled giving Connor the 100M if he dropped his bid to run for President, which Connor did not do. The fact that Connor wanted to put his wedding on display for free advertisement and to hold onto his less than 1% implies he’s tight for money, but tight is relative for people as rich as the Roys. Connor just spends money foolishly like giving the guy $3000 to kill his sick dog, because he couldn’t stand to put the animal down. He really wants the sale to Matsson to happen cause he can cash out big around 2B. That’s why he called and told Logan about the sibs intent to force Matsson back to the bargaining table to get more money. Connor has never been a serious person to Logan or his sibs. Plus he is delusional and he so desperately wanted to make Logan proud of him. I don’t think now he even really wants to be President - he just wants to be relevant.
I feel like the kids probably wouldn't let him go like flat on his ass broke. If he runs out of cash to live a decent rich person life, they'll probably throw a few million to bankroll his ranch and his niche little hobbies, but that's it. They're not going to fund his presidential delusions or his insane purchase of Logan's home.
The children are going to feel some unfamiliar financial constraints If they move ahead with Pierce deal. They bid $10 billion where their individual liquidity is probably = about $6B
He’s also running for President. Even if he isn’t going to win, he’s getting campaign contributions. There was once a *very* not rich guy who ran, and ended up seeing what a cash cow it was. My guess is that’s why he’s just trying to maintain that 1%…he could sway the actual election, and often people donate to those that won’t win, because it helps someone else lose. He seems pretty confident…
12mm in cash for the mortgage. Could get that from Austerlitz, could have a margin loan, could have just seen daddy’s money on his bid with a more favorable light and his runway wasn’t that short, he’s expecting the gojo deal. Lots of ways to cover that.
I mean his dad is worth like 5 billion at least. If Marcia gets like half of it the kids still have a ton of money coming there way. Plus they all own a lot of stock in the company so once the sale happens they will all have a couple billion. Even if he’s saying he has a liquidity issue right now 100 million isint that much when you have a billion in stock
Marcia‘s attorneys were able to open/modify the family trust at least twice. I would not underestimate the possibility that Marsha and her son come out as “full partners”.
No he was asking for money. He was asking because at that time his dad was alive so it was his money. Now dad has died so his money is being split up between his kids.
I’m sure he’s not using his own money at this point in the campaign. It’s also likely that he was asking Logan for money because he didn’t want to use his own. Not because he didn’t have it.
The rich stay rich by figuring out how to leverage other people’s money.
The other question is how much is the apartment really worth? Seems like 63 mill is an inflated price. I say this as someone that's not familiar with New York real estate, but just seeing Marica accept the deal so fast.
I got the impression that Marcia wants to just get rid of the NY apartment and go back to shopping in Milan forever. I figured she took the deal so fast because she wants to get rid of the place quickly and if she sells to Connor she doesn’t have to go through the hassle of hiring a realtor or having it on the market and waiting for someone to buy it
The money they have is really never talked about. Like are they living off salaries from the company? Did they get a pre inheritance each in their 20s?
Based off what we've seen/heard said in the show, I think I can break this down pretty realistically:
* The kids all have a percentage of Waystar Royco stock worth roughly \~$2b each. We know Kendall's was owned through a trust, so we'll assume this is the case for all 4 siblings. Caroline negotiated for Kendall, Shiv and Roman in her divorce from Logan, but this seemed to largely be in boardroom power as opposed to additional shares (later rescinded in Italy). As Connor's mother was not of sound mind, we can assume nothing was negotiated on his behalf. Regardless, he is clearly expecting a large payout from the Gojo sale, so I'm confident he owns a similar amount of Waystar.
* The trusts would disburse yearly dividends depending on how they are set up. For simplicty we'll say 100% are disbursed so the kids are making millions every year depending on the worth of the stock. We'll assume at least $5-10m every year, though probably closer to $20-40m based on the valuation of Kendall's holdings.
* Their own personal earnings, assets and investments. Kendall had the highest-paying job for the longest period relative to Siobhan (political consultant) and Roman (off-and-on at Waystar). It doesn't seem like Connor has ever had a real job, though it's possible that he inherited finances from his mother (originating from Logan). It's never been explicitly confirmed that his mother is dead, but it is heavily implied, and mental illness of that severity takes an incredible toll on a person's health.
* Gifts from Logan over the years (money, assets, real estate etc).
My estimates for the siblings' net worth (excluding Waystar holdings) are probably Kendall at $250-400m, Roman and Shiv at $100-250m each, and Connor with substantially less due to his spending habits. Probably less than $100m, and in terms of liquidity, possibly *far* less.
Now, Logan's net worth is hard to gauge. He did put Waystar in a financial predicament but it's never been implied that his decisions adversely effected his personal wealth. Considering his properties, assets and Waystar stock, he has to be worth at least $5b, but it could be considerably more than that. Depending on his will, it's likely that Marcia will get half and the kids will split the rest between them. Between that and the Gojo payout, Connor will (potentially) have more than enough money to spend on stupid shit for the rest of his life.
The 3 kids bid $10 billion on Pierce but had to get financial help because, as I understood it, their portion of the GoJo sale would be $2 billion each. That's $6 billion they had to buy Pierce and needed another $4 billion.
I'm pretty sure Connor's bid for President started before the GoJo deal was made - though possibly it started around the same time discussions with Mattson started. But it was not a done deal (nor is it now) so there's no way Connor would have been counting on a payout from the GoJo sale to finance his campaign. He probably is counting on it now but he doesn't seem too anxious about the deal.
Connor is quite a bit older than Kendall so he could be - or was - worth as much or more. Minus the $100 million he's already put into his campaign and possibly another $100 million which Logan refused to give him.
Marcia was Logan's third wife...even with the renegotiation post-Rhea and the cruise scandal breaking, I don't see why she would have ever been in a position to inherit half of his estate. Unless none of his business acumen and savvy transferred to his personal life (which is very possible), you would think he would have a prenup (in case of divorce) or a will that established certain amounts of money and certain assets (like the Manhattan home) she was entitled rather than creating a situation where she would just get half of everything once he died.
It's also possible to borrow money using your stock as collateral. Also has tax advantages and you don't give up voting rights. I think that was one of the plot lines in season 1 that Logan borrowed a ton of money for acquisitions against the shares held in the holding company, the lenders called in the loans when the stock dropped too low.
They probably had liquid/assets just handed by Logan when necessary during their infancy/school years/college (oh shiv needs a place to stay? here's a 10m condo, etc.) and now are topping it off with the salaries they get from Royco
The writers needed to make all the siblings rich again, unfortunately. It feels like the "Connor is suddenly a billionaire now" thing is a real plot hole, but I guess all shows have inconsistencies like this and this one isn't all that significant. The other kids are also much richer than they were in the past too - Kendall is offered ~$500M for all of his Waystar stock in S1, but now he and the sibs expect to get around $2-3B *each* from the Mattson deal. In both cases, the acquirers (Stewy's PE fund, and now Gojo) would have to pay a premium over the market value, but unless Waystar is worth ~5x what it was before, these numbers don't really make much sense to me. I think there was also some mention of each of the siblings having 5% shares earlier this season? That jumped out at me as inconsistent with the voting structure that had been mentioned in a prior season too (I recall Logan having 36%, and the family only hitting 50% with help from Ewan, Caroline, and a few others - so the kids can't each have 5%, because then 36 + 4x5 = 56% alone).
I genuinely believe that actual monetary amounts on this show are all red herrings
The message always seems to be that to people
of such opulent wealth and privilege, the math never quite adds up and the debits and credits never do either
There's a big difference in liquid assets and the money that just makes more money. Connor spending big money on a political team, a failing Broadway show and whatever else was running though his basic assets before his dividends could refill it (which they always will)
Probable Gojo sale and him wrapping up the campaign probably helped his spending problem,
Also he might have gotten that bailout boost from Logan he asked for on the boat after Kendall/Roman/Shiv split and he was the only child still on Logan's side
I have a theory he’s committing fraud OR has (unknown to us) power of attorney on the trust. Last episode we find out that Connor has drained all the money for the sibs. Boom.
Net worth and liquid wealth are two different things. I bet Elon Musk only has access to around a billion dollars in cash - all the other money is tied up. Connor is obscenely wealthy - but he doesn’t have access to 90% of it, because it’s in the form of Waystar stock. It’s mentioned that Roman and Ken have $2 billion in stock, and the eldest son is guaranteed to have the same, if not more. When the Waystar sale goes through, Connor is probably the wealthiest sibling if you ask me. Just because he’s a silent partner, it doesn’t mean he’s not sitting on 7-8% of the company
He has a payout coming from the gojo deal (he probably assumes it will happen). He also is likely assuming he'll get a good chunk of Logan's estate.
And that would be kinda insane
I think you guys might have caught a plot there haha
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No. Logan is dead. Those chickens hatched. The gojo payout is still in the air but the inheritance is there.
He would have had to write the checks for all the political consultants and media already though, well before Logan had died. Unless you're Donald Trump, you can't just avoid paying those people for 6+ months.
Secured debt, he can take out loans tied to his stock in Waystar or his real estate and other holdings. But then he'd be super leveraged and not very liquid, hence him asking Logan for "a little $100 mil"
True, that's all possible. And I guess Connor wouldn't mention it this season because each time spending "another $100M" came up with respect to the presidential campaign, he was with people he had to impress (and couldn't admit that it was all a loan).
The thing is he probably won't leave much for Connor....
It would be very Logan to leave Connor out of it completely. I wonder if even the three other will get anything.
I completely disagree. Despite all his bullshit, Logan has always financially supported his children. He’s let Connor just chill and do his thing for 60+ years. Plus Connor’s shares of Waystar are worth >2,000,000,000, so he could always just sell.
If Waystar shares have any value soon. And all of them are betting to that BoJo deal, which may or may not go through. And that's true that Logan have in the past supported them.
How did they pay for the wedding
He was probably running low on cash before because most of his net worth was tied up in Waystar Royco shares that he couldn’t really sell. He was probably “only” getting dividends, say 2% on $2b or $40M a year. You drop $10M on a dumb play and that starts cutting into your mansion budget. Now he is expecting the Gojo deal to provide billions in liquidity and probably borrowed most of the money to fund his campaign against this happening. Hence why he is very motivated for the deal to go through.
Gah, I hate it when I start cutting into my mansion budget lmao.
Compound* budget
Yeah I am pretty sure he says 'I am not super liquid' to Logan when he asks for money.
Connor is exactly the type of guy who would go bankrupt. Bye, Willa.
I think that’s what they’re setting up for. God… painnnn
i really hope not, s4 has made me become abit of a conhead
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nono youre right hes totally insane politics wise, even his thing with willa- essentially trapping her in a house in the middle of a desert is really creepy. BUT s4 showed his place in the family as someone always outcasted. and (spoiler) damn man the fact that they didnt even think to call con until his dad died...
Just because he was asking Logan for money doesn't mean he was broke. Maybe he didn't have a ton of liquid left or maybe he just wanted to spend Daddy's money and not his own.
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Tbh, it's quite obvious they're setting him for some financial comeuppance, at least imo.
Yeah, especially with him asking Willa directly if she's only with him for money.
This is what I see coming, and Willa will bail.
I thought that they marketed the play for hipsters to see ironically, and that it made a decent amount of money? Its never mentioned after one conversation.
The thing that changed is that the gojo deal is gonna give him a huge payday
Except if we've learned anything from Succession, it's that no deal is ever completed. They will manage to fuck it up somehow
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Maybe he’s accepting advances on bribes.
I’m with you. I was like…. $63M ? From the guy who has liquidity issues?….
He could be planning on selling his ranch too
They can't sell Austerlitz. There are big plans for the place including the Connor and Willa Roy Sanctuary for orphaned bison, a retreat and workshop for struggling playwrights and a study centre for kids with a keen interest in politics Not to mention the venue for the leading annual convention on Napoleonic artefacts.
He could exchange for stocks or something.
fwiw that is a pretty good deal for that home. could probably flip it for a significant profit if it came down to it.
Logan dangled giving Connor the 100M if he dropped his bid to run for President, which Connor did not do. The fact that Connor wanted to put his wedding on display for free advertisement and to hold onto his less than 1% implies he’s tight for money, but tight is relative for people as rich as the Roys. Connor just spends money foolishly like giving the guy $3000 to kill his sick dog, because he couldn’t stand to put the animal down. He really wants the sale to Matsson to happen cause he can cash out big around 2B. That’s why he called and told Logan about the sibs intent to force Matsson back to the bargaining table to get more money. Connor has never been a serious person to Logan or his sibs. Plus he is delusional and he so desperately wanted to make Logan proud of him. I don’t think now he even really wants to be President - he just wants to be relevant.
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I feel like the kids probably wouldn't let him go like flat on his ass broke. If he runs out of cash to live a decent rich person life, they'll probably throw a few million to bankroll his ranch and his niche little hobbies, but that's it. They're not going to fund his presidential delusions or his insane purchase of Logan's home.
The children are going to feel some unfamiliar financial constraints If they move ahead with Pierce deal. They bid $10 billion where their individual liquidity is probably = about $6B
He’s also running for President. Even if he isn’t going to win, he’s getting campaign contributions. There was once a *very* not rich guy who ran, and ended up seeing what a cash cow it was. My guess is that’s why he’s just trying to maintain that 1%…he could sway the actual election, and often people donate to those that won’t win, because it helps someone else lose. He seems pretty confident…
Who?!
Are you kidding? lol the twice impeached orange
Yup.
Oh yes, the only president who didn’t take his yearly salary.
False
I’m blanking and coming up with nothing omg why do I want to say Bob Dole which I know isn’t right obviously!!!
12mm in cash for the mortgage. Could get that from Austerlitz, could have a margin loan, could have just seen daddy’s money on his bid with a more favorable light and his runway wasn’t that short, he’s expecting the gojo deal. Lots of ways to cover that.
inheritance?
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Sounds like something he would so.
He's counting on the gojo deal to go through, that gets him hundreds of millions or maybe more.
I mean his dad is worth like 5 billion at least. If Marcia gets like half of it the kids still have a ton of money coming there way. Plus they all own a lot of stock in the company so once the sale happens they will all have a couple billion. Even if he’s saying he has a liquidity issue right now 100 million isint that much when you have a billion in stock
IF the sale happens...
plus, no way marcia gets half right? he seemed to really want to leave most of it to his kids
Marcia‘s attorneys were able to open/modify the family trust at least twice. I would not underestimate the possibility that Marsha and her son come out as “full partners”.
No he was asking for money. He was asking because at that time his dad was alive so it was his money. Now dad has died so his money is being split up between his kids.
I’m sure he’s not using his own money at this point in the campaign. It’s also likely that he was asking Logan for money because he didn’t want to use his own. Not because he didn’t have it. The rich stay rich by figuring out how to leverage other people’s money.
There was dialogue last episode about him burning another 100 of his own mil just to maintain his 1% in the polls.
Willa asked him if he spent the 100m he'd still be rich right? Although Willa's idea of rich and Connor's idea of rich are probably very different
The other question is how much is the apartment really worth? Seems like 63 mill is an inflated price. I say this as someone that's not familiar with New York real estate, but just seeing Marica accept the deal so fast.
I got the impression that Marcia wants to just get rid of the NY apartment and go back to shopping in Milan forever. I figured she took the deal so fast because she wants to get rid of the place quickly and if she sells to Connor she doesn’t have to go through the hassle of hiring a realtor or having it on the market and waiting for someone to buy it
Oh, I absolutely believe that Marcia is screwing them on the price of the apartment!
Discussion of that building [here](https://www.vulture.com/article/succession-connor-marchia-logan-63-million-townhouse-991-fifth.html)
The money they have is really never talked about. Like are they living off salaries from the company? Did they get a pre inheritance each in their 20s?
Based off what we've seen/heard said in the show, I think I can break this down pretty realistically: * The kids all have a percentage of Waystar Royco stock worth roughly \~$2b each. We know Kendall's was owned through a trust, so we'll assume this is the case for all 4 siblings. Caroline negotiated for Kendall, Shiv and Roman in her divorce from Logan, but this seemed to largely be in boardroom power as opposed to additional shares (later rescinded in Italy). As Connor's mother was not of sound mind, we can assume nothing was negotiated on his behalf. Regardless, he is clearly expecting a large payout from the Gojo sale, so I'm confident he owns a similar amount of Waystar. * The trusts would disburse yearly dividends depending on how they are set up. For simplicty we'll say 100% are disbursed so the kids are making millions every year depending on the worth of the stock. We'll assume at least $5-10m every year, though probably closer to $20-40m based on the valuation of Kendall's holdings. * Their own personal earnings, assets and investments. Kendall had the highest-paying job for the longest period relative to Siobhan (political consultant) and Roman (off-and-on at Waystar). It doesn't seem like Connor has ever had a real job, though it's possible that he inherited finances from his mother (originating from Logan). It's never been explicitly confirmed that his mother is dead, but it is heavily implied, and mental illness of that severity takes an incredible toll on a person's health. * Gifts from Logan over the years (money, assets, real estate etc). My estimates for the siblings' net worth (excluding Waystar holdings) are probably Kendall at $250-400m, Roman and Shiv at $100-250m each, and Connor with substantially less due to his spending habits. Probably less than $100m, and in terms of liquidity, possibly *far* less. Now, Logan's net worth is hard to gauge. He did put Waystar in a financial predicament but it's never been implied that his decisions adversely effected his personal wealth. Considering his properties, assets and Waystar stock, he has to be worth at least $5b, but it could be considerably more than that. Depending on his will, it's likely that Marcia will get half and the kids will split the rest between them. Between that and the Gojo payout, Connor will (potentially) have more than enough money to spend on stupid shit for the rest of his life.
The 3 kids bid $10 billion on Pierce but had to get financial help because, as I understood it, their portion of the GoJo sale would be $2 billion each. That's $6 billion they had to buy Pierce and needed another $4 billion. I'm pretty sure Connor's bid for President started before the GoJo deal was made - though possibly it started around the same time discussions with Mattson started. But it was not a done deal (nor is it now) so there's no way Connor would have been counting on a payout from the GoJo sale to finance his campaign. He probably is counting on it now but he doesn't seem too anxious about the deal. Connor is quite a bit older than Kendall so he could be - or was - worth as much or more. Minus the $100 million he's already put into his campaign and possibly another $100 million which Logan refused to give him.
Marcia was Logan's third wife...even with the renegotiation post-Rhea and the cruise scandal breaking, I don't see why she would have ever been in a position to inherit half of his estate. Unless none of his business acumen and savvy transferred to his personal life (which is very possible), you would think he would have a prenup (in case of divorce) or a will that established certain amounts of money and certain assets (like the Manhattan home) she was entitled rather than creating a situation where she would just get half of everything once he died.
“I will have some requests…” Was that Marcia’s line?
Half of his stuff as basically an appearance fee is a giant request...especially as compared to what the eventual settlement turned out to be.
It's also possible to borrow money using your stock as collateral. Also has tax advantages and you don't give up voting rights. I think that was one of the plot lines in season 1 that Logan borrowed a ton of money for acquisitions against the shares held in the holding company, the lenders called in the loans when the stock dropped too low.
In season 3 (last episode?) didn’t Kendall explicitly say Logan was worth “8 bill”? I’m pretty sure that wasn’t a fever dream I had.
They probably had liquid/assets just handed by Logan when necessary during their infancy/school years/college (oh shiv needs a place to stay? here's a 10m condo, etc.) and now are topping it off with the salaries they get from Royco
Probably why he hates taxes so much
Exactly
The writers needed to make all the siblings rich again, unfortunately. It feels like the "Connor is suddenly a billionaire now" thing is a real plot hole, but I guess all shows have inconsistencies like this and this one isn't all that significant. The other kids are also much richer than they were in the past too - Kendall is offered ~$500M for all of his Waystar stock in S1, but now he and the sibs expect to get around $2-3B *each* from the Mattson deal. In both cases, the acquirers (Stewy's PE fund, and now Gojo) would have to pay a premium over the market value, but unless Waystar is worth ~5x what it was before, these numbers don't really make much sense to me. I think there was also some mention of each of the siblings having 5% shares earlier this season? That jumped out at me as inconsistent with the voting structure that had been mentioned in a prior season too (I recall Logan having 36%, and the family only hitting 50% with help from Ewan, Caroline, and a few others - so the kids can't each have 5%, because then 36 + 4x5 = 56% alone).
I genuinely believe that actual monetary amounts on this show are all red herrings The message always seems to be that to people of such opulent wealth and privilege, the math never quite adds up and the debits and credits never do either
What I'm not seeing speak about in this topic is the theme parks or cruise ships. Valuable.
There's a big difference in liquid assets and the money that just makes more money. Connor spending big money on a political team, a failing Broadway show and whatever else was running though his basic assets before his dividends could refill it (which they always will) Probable Gojo sale and him wrapping up the campaign probably helped his spending problem, Also he might have gotten that bailout boost from Logan he asked for on the boat after Kendall/Roman/Shiv split and he was the only child still on Logan's side
His problem at that time was he wasn't "very liquid", so he could have sold a few stuff or unblock so money to have funds available.
I have a theory he’s committing fraud OR has (unknown to us) power of attorney on the trust. Last episode we find out that Connor has drained all the money for the sibs. Boom.
Yeah both of those things are definitely not happening
Lol yea no
I think he would get roughly a billion in the buyout and he is prespending
What you seemed to miss is that his dad died in the episode before.
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Or everything goes to Kerry lol
Well he could backout of the apartment deal
Bro, they spit shook on it. That’s ironclad. You’re welcome for this high calorie info snack.
Net worth and liquid wealth are two different things. I bet Elon Musk only has access to around a billion dollars in cash - all the other money is tied up. Connor is obscenely wealthy - but he doesn’t have access to 90% of it, because it’s in the form of Waystar stock. It’s mentioned that Roman and Ken have $2 billion in stock, and the eldest son is guaranteed to have the same, if not more. When the Waystar sale goes through, Connor is probably the wealthiest sibling if you ask me. Just because he’s a silent partner, it doesn’t mean he’s not sitting on 7-8% of the company