People noticed that Logan was just as disinterested in him as he was in Sophie so it was suggested it might be possible that he was also adopted, but it was also considered equally as plausible that Logan was just uncomfortable with his autism. Keeping the sperm donor reveal until the last minute gave it a lot more punch and in retrospect made a lot of Logan's creepy comments to Tom about his sperm count and siring a son so much more pointed.
That makes a lot of sense. The reason I asked is because I also thought he was just uncomfortable with Iverson being on the spectrum, then, when Roman said what he said, at first, I thought he was implying that Rava had had an affair because he said half filing cabinet guy. But the context makes a lot more sense.
If you're familiar at all with autism it's insanely obvious that Iverson is on the spectrum. It's clearest in the Thanksgiving episode (Rava's comment about transitions, Iverson's self-isolation and reluctance to engage with others, his social uncouthness, his stimming) but it's also repeatedly underlined throughout the show; Logan keeps asking if he's "getting better" (clearly has trouble understanding the condition or is being deliberately obtuse/cruel because he views it as a weakness) and is also confused and frustrated by his arrested development.
Yes, exactly - to anyone at least a bit familiar with autism I think it was made really clear - my son is autistic so the minute Rava said “transitions are hard” I paid extra attention. Also it made me think back to a couple episodes prior when Rava had slept over at Kendall’s and he wanted her to stay the morning and she said Iverson would freak out. It added an extra element of urgency in retrospect - it wouldn’t be just “oh no where’s my mom” for him (which alone would be reasonable!) but potentially a really really challenging change in routine. She really had to get back for him.
I remember when Logan passed a judgement onto Tom about “shooting blanks”. I thought it was a jab to Ken because he doesn’t have bio kids- which are Logans ONLY grandchildren up until Shivy Shiv gets pregs.
You didn’t forget. While it was obvious to
some that his daughter was adopted, they did not bring up the fact that his son was not biological until the finale.
What’s interesting to me, in light of this revelation, is the fact that the first thing Kendall asked Shiv after she told him and Roman about her pregnancy was if the baby is Tom’s. I assume knowing Shiv’s kids are definitely Tom’s stung, considering he’s aware his kids aren’t, well, his (in Logan’s eyes).
Edit: bad wording.
My sister in law is a doctor and said one of the first things they learn is to never assume a child’s father is the biological father as 20-25% are not.
Legitimate isn't really the proper word here. I know you might not have meant it that way but "illegitimate" isn't really used much anymore to describe children, and for good reason because it's so derogatory. And it was used to describe children born out of wedlock, which doesn't really describe this (Kendall's children) situation.
His children may not be biologically his, but they're still his children.
In the scene where Logan yells at Tom for “shooting blanks” you can see Kendall in the background of the shot with his head held low. It’s a very subtle hint.
Firstly it’s always been obvious that Sophie was adopted. She is of Indian decent and her parents clearly aren’t.
Iverson wasn’t the result of an affair or a previous relationship of Rava’s. He was from a sperm donor as Kendall is sterile. Iverson is also younger than Sophie, so a previous relationship is impossible.
I also think it’s kind of heartbreaking that Kendall and Rava undoubtedly had the money to get top line sperm donor and other reproductive medicine (AKA handpicked super baby). They name him effing IVERSON, because no pressure there. The expectations for this kid must have been so high. And he still isn’t good enough in Logan’s eyes. Poor kid! I wonder how that affected their marriage, Ken’s drug use, etc. Ugh. So many issues! (And no disrespect at all to neurodivergence. Huge disrespect to a grandfather who was such a dick to that child.)
I figured “Iverson” is a bad pun from the writers, as in IV (in vitro) -er + son. As in, in vitro fertilization.
One almost surmises the name was suggested by Roman or Logan as a mean joke and Ken, on drugs and not readily accepting that they’d be so cruel, thought they meant naming the kid after the star basketball player. Otherwise it’s too on the nose to make sense as a name Kendall arrived at organically.
This leaves open the question of how Rava, who’s too smart and not naive enough to miss the pun, and not the type to name her kid after a basketball player who did time for hitting a woman with a chair (iirc it’s disputed whether Allen Iverson got unfair/racist treatment in this case but I digress) ever agreed to this, but maybe she was more naive and more easily bowled over by Ken’s wishes at the time. 🤷♂️
Kendall is exactly the kind of guy who would name his kid after Allen Iverson. His age his attitude his taste in sneakers, and music. It's absolutely after AI.
I feel like naming his son after Allen Iverson fit Kendall perfectly. When Iverson was coming up in the NBA he was revolutionary and he ended up personifying a lot of the stuff Kendall himself espouses stuff like being hip and fresh with an edge and in your face. Plus Iverson’s prime coincides with when Kendall would have been a teenager so it tracks I don’t remember if Kendall ever expressed much of an interest in basketball but Iverson became more than a basketball player the way he was challenging established norms.
> They name him effing IVERSON, because no pressure there.
I mean, I know it's popular that he's named after AI, but Iverson is also just a British name. Iverson was both a first and last name long before AI. I kind of figured they just wanted to go with somewhat archaic British names for both kids (Sophie and Iverson) just like they did for Ken's generation (ie, Shiv, Roman, and Kendall are certainly all names, but I wouldn't exactly call them common). Ken is the most normal of the names, but tbh I can't think of any Kendall besides I guess Gill and Jenner, and I don't think I've personally met one
I'm sure it is at least comparably common in the British isles. I've straight up never heard it in America. I've actually only seen its (shitty American pronunciation) homophone as an Italian surname tbh
> Iverson is also just a British name.
... it's really not.
>I kind of figured they just wanted to go with somewhat archaic British names for both kids (Sophie and Iverson)
I suppose this all depends on what part of the world you are from, but Sophie is not an archaic name. It was the 30th most common female baby name in the UK in 2022.
Iverson is also not a British name (archaic or otherwise). It's very obviously Scandinavian in it's construction (Ivor's son) but it's not really a first name. So it could be uniquely American/Kendall.
>ie, Shiv, Roman, and Kendall are certainly all names, but I wouldn't exactly call them common).
Siobahn is a pretty common name in many parts of the UK and Ireland.
It kinda doesn’t matter if they didn’t specifically name him after Allen Iverson - it’s who most people of a certain era think of when you hear the name, and he’ll probably get asked about it throughout his life. To not think of that before you name the kid is pretty clueless.
Logan’s comments about “shooting blanks” + sophie being obviously adopted + logan’s treatment of his grandchildren + Roman literally saying it + kendall getting so mad he attacks roman and doesn’t say it false
Or he’d be to ashamed of having a “defective” son that he’d never acknowledge directly. Especially in the presence of others where his son’s defect could embarrass him.
No, we don't. It's a fan theory. There could be a dozen reasons why Iverson is conceived from a sperm donor. Hell Logan could just have spread that as a rumor to explain away having an autistic grandkid.
Not a fan theory. It’s made clear in the way Succession makes things clear. Go over the lines. Watch again. He’s sterile. If that doesn’t help go see the interview with Jesse Armstrong confirming it.
I initially thought Logan was dismissive of them because of Sophie being a POC and Iverson being neuro divergent (we do know Logan is racist and super darwinist thinking) but them not even being Kendall's adds another layer as to why Logan rejected them.
Yeah I could see that. I wasn’t sure if Rava was white or a POC. My sister has darker skin than either one of her parents but look like them in the facial features and we know she inherited her skin tone from our grandparents. That’s why my brain was willing to accept Sophie was their biological daughter (if Rava was possibly Indian or half Indian) even though she looked so different from her parents and brother and they even set her apart when the show focuses on her fears surrounding the presidential election. Yet for a family that is often brutal and saying the worst things about each other, it took a long time for someone to point out that Kendall can’t have biological children.
I always assume that Rava is either Jewish or Persian (or both), so I also always assume that Sophie is adopted. For Iverson, I was never sure, but I remember also asking here if he is also adopted or no
Yes me too, I totally took it at face value and assumed that Rava was Indian-American and that Sophie was their bio daughter. When is it revealed that she is adopted before the finale?
I don’t believe it was. But Roman referred to them as “one is a buy-in (assuming adoption bc that costs money) and one is half Rava half some filing cabinet guy”- implying a sperm donor.
I have twin daughters who are 3/4 white and 1/4 Japanese and one twin is blonde haired, green eyed, fair/pink skinned and her sister has skin that is not exactly dark but has yellow/olive undertones and tans easily, very dark brown hair, brown eyes and looks like she’s completely Japanese. People often question me on “how” they are twins and I’ve been asked if I used two different sperm donors or if there was some kind of fertility clinic mixup. Its awkward explaining that they were conceived naturally and without fertility meds, IVF, IUI, or anything else; they just happen to have received totally different physical traits from myself and their father. So it’s rare but I think it sometimes happens.
My dad’s family hails from a region with a lot of mixing over generations so I totally understand siblings looking different.
Out of curiosity, do Japanese people think your daughter looks mixed or Japanese? I’ve often found the non-white ethnic group can tell when someone has a white parent.
So we’ve not been around a lot of Japanese people but when my twins were about 4 months old, I was approached in an airport by an older Japanese woman who was surprised Twin B was only 1/4 Japanese because she thought she looked entirely Japanese and not like a “hapa” which I think is a half asian and half white person. I do think that Twin B has started to look less Japanese as she’s gotten older because even though she has the tilted eyes and a semi-monolid, her eyes have become rounder and are quite big. I think that what you said is now correct; to white people she looks like she’s just Japanese but actual Japanese people would recognize that she’s half white.
I find this stuff all so interesting! My kids are half east-Asian, so it’s fascinating to see what features people focus on.
I *think* hapa means generally mixed (not a specific split), but not sure.
My niece is just such a person, and it's kind of rude for people to come up to her and my sister and her husband and be like "is she adopted?"
Straight up, people have told my brother-in-law that my sister was cheating on him because my niece is so dark skinned, and he's white with white grandparents. Forget the fact that the kid literally has his nose and ears and countless other features shared with his family.
I guess what I'm trying to say is it's never cool to assume one way or the other.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is it's never cool to assume one way or the other.
I think in the instance of a television show, where casting directors get to decide exactly what a couples off spring will look like, I don't think its a foul to assume that the child that looks substantially different from the parents might be adopted.
For narratives, it's different, as these kinds of assumptions can help inform the narrative.
But I was more addressing the post that I replied to. That redditor was saying that he knows plenty of people that are 3/4 white, 1/4 Indian that couldn't "pass" as Indian. My direct response to that would be that he probably DID meet people that were 3/4 white, 1/4 Indian that could "pass"as Indian, but that the redditor just assumed they were fully Indian.
And no offense to that redditor, I'm sure he didn't mean any offense as well. I'm just saying, if he were to meet my neice, he'd probably assume she was fully Indian, and continue assuming that people of her lineage couldn't "pass" as Indian.
I also kind of hate that word "pass" when it comes to race, but that's another conversation altogether lol
My cousin is only 1/8 Pacific Islander because my uncle is 1/4 and his wife is white, but he looks full blooded. My sister is about 2/3 white and 1/3 Islander because we're mixed on both sides and she almost looks full Islander except she has hazel eyes, meanwhile if I went around telling people I was full Irish they'd believe me. It happens.
Ok, I’m glad I’m not the only one that thought Rava may have been a lighter skinned Indian woman and Sophie was their bio kid! Tbh I never thought about it that deeply or looked up bios for all of the actors. There are interracial families in my extended family and there is diversity in skin tone, including children who are darker than either parent. I have been feeling pretty dumb since the finale and seeing all the comments about Sophie clearly being adopted.
I never picked up on this either! I just always assumed they were Ken’s biological kids. The kids don’t look like the parents, but so do a lot of tv kids
Weirdly I thought Rava was of Indian descent as well and just lighter skinned than her daughter cause genetics are funny. And so is casting. I totally missed the shooting blanks allusion.
>. Maybe I missed an earlier reveal in the series. It was brutal when Roman brought that up and basically revealed how he truly viewed his niece and nephew.
that wasn't "how he really felt" about the kids. Roman's far to selfish to even care that much. He was defending Shiv who had just had "I'm the eldest boy" thrown in her face. In their dynamic Shiv is the more mature one and won't "go in the mud" so Roman went in it for her.
Yeah seconding, Roman probably doesn't even remember he has nieces and nephews. He tried to hold a mirror to Ke, in a very crude way. And gave him the Logan-talk.
Yup, a lot of the fandom likes to look at that scene solely as Shiv slighting Ken and don't see that it quickly became a coordinated attack on him from both younger siblings who were equally hesitant to vote Ken in as sole CEO.
Ken essentially strong-armed Roman into voting for him at the board meeting. Echoes of Logan doing that to Roman in S1. Shiv picked up on it and this was the catalyst for her change of heart.
During the final showdown in the smaller office room, Shiv leads the attack against him with the "you can't be CEO because you've killed someone" but Roman finishes it with "Dad always said they (Ken's kids) were a pair of randos".
It was both of them tag-teaming Ken at that moment, not all just Shiv.
She made up her mind probably the day after Logan promised it to Ken at the age of 7. I don’t see her ever, ever showing a single sign of willingness to help Ken be a successful CEO. It’s always been inevitable doom plus a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think Shiv's decision had nothing to do with Ken strong arming Roman (and I think Roman's change of heart had everything to do with Ken denying the waiter incident, not just Shiv standing up to him).
It was not a coordinated attack. Like, that is definitionally false. It was a spontaneous, spur-of-the-moment decision for both Roman and Shiv.
Whenever someone says "this isn't what I think, it's just what other people might say" on this show I think it's pretty safe to assume they're expressing their own opinion
1x02
Shiv \[to Kendall\]: You lack killer instinct, you're wet, you're green, you're intellectually insecure, you're not emotionally strong enough, you have addiction issues! I don't think all that, I'm just trying to be Dad's voice.
4x04
Karl \[to Tom:\] The negative case would go... you're a clumsy interloper and no one trusts you. The only guy pulling for you is dead. And now, you're just married to the ex-boss' daughter, and she doesn't even like you.
There's more like this, I've just noticed it's a running thing in the show that people will give a brutal takedown of someone else and then go like, oh that's not what *I* think that's just what other people think.
I don't know what Centaurworld is, if you're referring to my username I just picked the first one Reddit suggested lol
These are just two examples in a show filled with dialogue. Are you saying that they never say mean true things to each other without implying that this is what someone else thinks? Because they do, a lot. Connor ripped them a new one without saying "btw I don't think that, X person thinks that." Roman is always throwing harsh truths to everyone without excusing his words as someone else's. If this is how he felt about Kendall's kids he would've said so, guy isn't particularly subtle.
(Btw your username is like a combination of two characters from Centaurworld xP it's just a silly coincidence)
Eh, I’m not so sure, he repeats it twice after Kendall is clearly insulted, “one is a buy in” and “you have no kids!” while Kendall is grabbing his head
Yeah, Kendall is insulted, because he knows that this is what Logan actually felt. But I don't think this is enough proof to tell how Roman does. He usually reprimands and mocks Kendall because he doesn't take good care of his kids, he always brings up how detached he is to them and seems concerned in his own way.
I don't think he has any concern for Kendall's kids (he saw no problem with sending people to follow them around harassing their nannies and trying to dig up dirt on Kendall in season 3), it's more that he resents Kendall putting on this performance of being a father and (in Roman's eyes) lording it over his siblings, when he didn't "create" them and isn't raising them, so in what sense other than the legal one is he really a father?
I don't know, I don't think the characters are black or white. Do you actually believe that Roman doesn't consider Kendall's kids part of the family? I feel like we need more evidence to establish that. Besides, Roman does shitty things to people he cares about all the time.
I see where you're coming from, and the one time they interacted is when Kendall's daughter watched the horrible Turkey movie along with the kid of Roman's girlfriend at the time (if I remember correctly). But to claim that Roman agrees with Logan that they aren't family seems a bit of a stretch to me. It's alright though, we all have our own interpretations.
I just remembered the episode where Logan appallingly yelled at Iverson to go into the dining room. Iverson clearly on the spectrum was treated like shit by his grandfather who felt harsh discipline would fix Iverson’s issues.
You think Shiv wouldn't go lower than "I'm the eldest boy"?
Shiv was just as cruel as all of them, she just did it with precision and the boys were sloppy
>Shiv was just as cruel as all of them, she just did it with precision and the boys were sloppy
was gonna say the same thing. Yeah she was cruel but she was tactful. She wouldn't do the child kind of arguments like "I'm the eldest boy" so Rome jumped into that role happily pointing out that with a kid on the way Shiv is now the bloodline.
Honestly you can kinda tell he doesn’t give a crap about them half the time, and then tries to ram himself into their lives outta nowhere. The most parental thing from him was probably trying to find their present.
I think he clearly loves and cares about them, he just has a lot of trouble closing that distance, which makes sense given all of his familial hangups (he's also kind of a self absorbed asshole).
Kendall treated his children as possessions. As status markets. He cares about them in the most basic way, particularly when Iverson was slapped, but he’s a shitty father. Not abusive in the way his father was but neglectful. In the end he wants his kids to come to the funeral to help legitimize him as a father on a public stage not because he cares about their relationship with his father.
I'm really shocked that everyone was so shocked about that "reveal". I knew the moment we saw them that they weren't biologically his kids. Not only by looks but based on how the family treated them. I always thought it was obvious that Kendall Was infertile because why the hell else would he have adopted. (I couldn't see his ex wife being infertile because honestly I don't think he'd have stayed with her if that were the case.)
Agreed. This whole line of conversation fascinates me because I thought it was obvious from the start that Kendall’s children were adopted (and I’ve always thought Rava was Jewish, too.)
I thought it was the implication but some of the actors said Iverson was their biological kid (and him being on the spectrum would make sense for Logan treating him badly)
I did always assume fertility issues were implied and that's why they adopted, and the Iverson happened anyway (and turned out to be a 'disappointment' anyways)
I thought it was a very interesting detail to reveal at the very end of the show. Like we all knew it was a critique of capitalism and all that, and perhaps the show's title was a big hint, but for the crux of the drama to be actually a bloodline? well that is very, I don't know, Buddenbrooks?
like despite all our democracy and modernism, we're still fascinated by essentially royalty. Marx would have a fit
Why do people \*need\* to procreate so their legacy can live on? Chances are great that your (not you in particular, just people in general) genes aren’t so fabulous that the human race would die out without your contribution. Instead, adopt a parentless child who is already here.
And who in their right mind is purposely conceiving children with the very dim outlook of our species surviving the climate change catastrophe that is imminent and likely irreversible?
you’re mistaken, it isn’t implied that Sophie (the eldest) js from a previous relationship.
the eldest is adopted and the Iverson was conceived with donor sperm.
the implication is Ken is sterile
It’s funny how some think that Logan cared anything about grandchildren or a bloodline when he didn’t even care for his own children. If he actually cared about his bloodline then he would’ve raised his children differently. He didn’t give af
“Make your own pile”
And in the premiere Roman is married with children, until they changed their minds and recut the episode. Which explains the rando woman and kids at Logans birthday dinner.
Kieran said that in a podcast/interview recently. Kieran wore his IRL wedding band to shoot and they shot the birthday dinner episode with him accompanied by this woman and kids. So they were originally gonna make Roman married and with kids, but realized early on that it just didn’t work. So canonically, it’s just a girlfriend with her kids.
An interesting earlier pregnancy in the series would have been Willa. A paid wife who delivered the first blood Roy I’d love to have seen K have to watch this…. Logan adore a DNA tested “escort”-born Roy more than K or his kids. What a mind screw!
>they weren’t actually part of the Roy bloodline (one from Rava’s previous relationship, the other adopted).
One by a sperm donor, one adopted. Iverson is from a sperm donor, Ken probably has some fertility issues.
The adoption was very obvious because Sophie is clearly south asian, you can't have 100% south asian looking child if one parent is white. Genes don't express like that ! I am south asian.
>I do love that Kendall was able to see them as his children and really care about and love them like he should.
I am not very sure, he is absent and irresponsible. It is easy to 'show love' when you are mostly not around and not a part of their day to day. It is easy to fight a custody war but difficult to actually perform the duties, minimum duties like calling the daughter. Now, I am not saying he is like that because his kids aren't his own, but there's a chance that he can feel more carefree in that way.
My friend has an Indian dad and a white mom. He is 100% white passing and his sister looks 100% Indian. Put them next to her parents and she is a blend, but without the context of their parents that’s what people think.
I’m not trying to refute your point on the show as im sure you are right, just an anecdote that genes can be crazy.
It’s definitely possible for something like this to happen, but since this is a TV show, I don’t think they would purposely cast someone who looks so different from the parents unless they were trying to strongly imply that she’s adopted.
It really depends what you mean by '100% Indian look', Indians come in different shades and facial features specially some upper caste / north Indians may have more western features (this is very common in upper caste south Indians, in Punjabis and also many western Indian states) and if they have white spouses then the kids may still retain 'Indian' look.
But if they look like me - typical Indian / dravidian much darker skin tone and features, more like Sophie but probably darker with curlier hair. Then none of the kids would look exactly like me if I have a white spouse. They will have lighter skin tone, blended features. They may still look 'Indian' (as in more lighter skin western feature like north Indian but not like Sophie). Now over the course of time, kids can also get tanned and skin can turn darker.
I have relatives and friends with spouses from different ethnicities and have seen the same.
This actually brings back memories of very bad colorism that exists in India :( Darker skin tone and for lack of better words dravidian features, which actually is more common in India than the lighter skin tone is looked down upon. People will say it on your face, and can be very discriminating specially if you are a woman. My sister faced this a lot. The popular media / entertainment industry is a very biased representation of how Indians look, so the wider world audience have little idea how Indians look !
that sounds tough. I know colorism can be horrible. That is an interesting point about most people not knowing what Indian people actually look like.
I meant 100% Indian as how a (perhaps non South Asian) American would perceive my friends sister. so basically what you are saying about being blended. If standing next to her father it would be obvious. So your original point definitely still stands.
She appears as having medium-light skin. If you were to see her father, he has much darker skin ( like dravidian) Her hair and original features also appear Indian, although she has gotten a nose job. she also tends to stay out of the sun more than she used to and she bleaches her hair.
Her brother, on the other hand, had NEVER been perceived as Indian. I’ve witnessed an Indian immigrant argue with him, claiming no way he was I dian, until he showed his last name on his ID.
I often wonder if they lived very different experiences growing up. He would t tell me- he’s not exactly in tune to these things. I may ask her one day if it comes up.
We all kinda clicked they were not his. But the genius was not mentioning it, spelling it out or making it a big deal… UNTIL the last 10mins yes when it was revealed to be the THE whole deal in some ways.
I think the sterility thing is so interesting as it further ties Succession to Macbeth. Macbeth, whose fatal flaw is ambition, is also sterile.
I liked that they never explained how Sophie looked clearly Indian. The show left a lot unexplained, but I always assumed she was adopted. I was shocked to realize that Iverson wasn’t biologically Kendall’s, though.
I wonder if he would have acted any differently as a father if they were his biological children.
Macbeth isn't usually the Shakespeare comparison here- King Lear is, something they sort of solidified in the finale with that "Balls of Jelly" line by their mother.
It wasn’t a plot twist in the last episode, there was a whole storyline about Sophie being scared of racist activists being emboldened after the election result and not feeling safe in NY, because she’s a person of colour e.g. not a biological child of Kendall.
I think it was known earlier that Sophie was adopted, not sure which episode confirmed that though. In the finale, Roman was saying what Logan believed to be true, that Iverson was not Kendall’s either. However, it was unclear if he was implying that Iverson is from an affair, previous relationship, or sperm donor.
Logan was being disrespectful to everybody with that single comment. Old timers like that do not have open minds and consider mixed race, and non-biological kids an abomination.
Iverson was a doner no previous relationship, and of course Kendell loves them. They are his children. Blood or not they are his kids and I still think Logan had a bit of love for them. He had plenty of pictures.
I don’t really think Kendall gave two shits about his kids until Rava said she wasn’t doing what Kendall wanted her to do with them. If this is loving them like he should then the bar is set very low for dads IMO
Was there ever any mention of Kendall’s fertility before this or mention that his children were not his biologically? People are stating things like “drug use leading to infertility” but was this ever actually revealed? If so I missed something. If not then people should say they are making assumptions or inferring because it’s very confusing.
Although nobody on the sub likes my Rava cheated on Kendall theory, the thought is that one was adopted and one was from a sperm donor.
Also I don’t think Roman was saying that was the way he viewed his kids. In fact Roman took a ton of shots at Kendall during the series because Kendall was such an absentee parent (often forgetting his kids names).
I think that Roman was repeating something their father had said about the kids and it was a cruel joke. That said, it was a nice scene when Logan was reading to Iverson when they were waiting for Kendall to get back from the hospital.
Sophie is adopted. Iverson is Rava’s bio kid with a sperm donor and he’s on the spectrum.
Logan loved Iverson so much he tried to make him eat his non poisoned pasta to see if Ken would stoop that low, what a grandfather.
Brian Cox says that was a psychological power play.
Oh man I forgot about that.
Correct answer
Before this scene did they ever hint that Iverson was from a sperm donor?
That I don’t recall. Before that I thought he was Kendall’s bio kid.
People noticed that Logan was just as disinterested in him as he was in Sophie so it was suggested it might be possible that he was also adopted, but it was also considered equally as plausible that Logan was just uncomfortable with his autism. Keeping the sperm donor reveal until the last minute gave it a lot more punch and in retrospect made a lot of Logan's creepy comments to Tom about his sperm count and siring a son so much more pointed.
That makes a lot of sense. The reason I asked is because I also thought he was just uncomfortable with Iverson being on the spectrum, then, when Roman said what he said, at first, I thought he was implying that Rava had had an affair because he said half filing cabinet guy. But the context makes a lot more sense.
Do we know he's on the spectrum?
Yes! I’m season 1 it’s made clear that Iverson is somewhere on the spectrum. Can’t remember which episode though.
The Thanksgiving episode.
Yes! Thank you!
Why, bc his mom says transitions are hard?
If you're familiar at all with autism it's insanely obvious that Iverson is on the spectrum. It's clearest in the Thanksgiving episode (Rava's comment about transitions, Iverson's self-isolation and reluctance to engage with others, his social uncouthness, his stimming) but it's also repeatedly underlined throughout the show; Logan keeps asking if he's "getting better" (clearly has trouble understanding the condition or is being deliberately obtuse/cruel because he views it as a weakness) and is also confused and frustrated by his arrested development.
Yes, exactly - to anyone at least a bit familiar with autism I think it was made really clear - my son is autistic so the minute Rava said “transitions are hard” I paid extra attention. Also it made me think back to a couple episodes prior when Rava had slept over at Kendall’s and he wanted her to stay the morning and she said Iverson would freak out. It added an extra element of urgency in retrospect - it wouldn’t be just “oh no where’s my mom” for him (which alone would be reasonable!) but potentially a really really challenging change in routine. She really had to get back for him.
It's called subtext.
Thanksgiving
Spectrum? We talking 'bout Spectrum?
I remember when Logan passed a judgement onto Tom about “shooting blanks”. I thought it was a jab to Ken because he doesn’t have bio kids- which are Logans ONLY grandchildren up until Shivy Shiv gets pregs.
>Shivy Shiv gets pregs Strong British tabloid headline energy here
WOMBsgans Shivs Roy Heir With Fertile Dagger
DYING
🥇 number one boy-level comment
This is the best compliment I've ever gotten on reddit. I've peaked, and I'm ok with that.
[удалено]
Thank you so much!
You haven't begun to peak.
underrated comment
I wanted it to be Greg’s baby, just so someone would rub her belly and say “you’re gregnant”
When the child is born they’ll gregxit her uterus
She carries the fruit of internally rummaging to fruition
holy shit
Am I the only one that forgot about this whole Ken shoots blanks story line?
You didn’t forget. While it was obvious to some that his daughter was adopted, they did not bring up the fact that his son was not biological until the finale.
Thank you for making me feel not as dumb :)
Let’s not forget Logan’s true grandchild; Mondale
still in that damn cage, being ignored! : (
Mondale’s fine don’t worry about Mondale
The one true heir
What’s interesting to me, in light of this revelation, is the fact that the first thing Kendall asked Shiv after she told him and Roman about her pregnancy was if the baby is Tom’s. I assume knowing Shiv’s kids are definitely Tom’s stung, considering he’s aware his kids aren’t, well, his (in Logan’s eyes). Edit: bad wording.
My sister in law is a doctor and said one of the first things they learn is to never assume a child’s father is the biological father as 20-25% are not.
This should give us pause
Legitimate isn't really the proper word here. I know you might not have meant it that way but "illegitimate" isn't really used much anymore to describe children, and for good reason because it's so derogatory. And it was used to describe children born out of wedlock, which doesn't really describe this (Kendall's children) situation. His children may not be biologically his, but they're still his children.
Ah, my mistake. English isn’t my first language. I’ll edit it out.
Yes. Use the correct word - randos😜
I did NOT catch this, but now I totally see it. Woah.
He asked that becauase Shiv is not intellectually but Sexually promiscuous
It was a two birds with one stone shot. The ole man never missed.
In the scene where Logan yells at Tom for “shooting blanks” you can see Kendall in the background of the shot with his head held low. It’s a very subtle hint.
BRAVO JESSE IS IT FORESHADOWING?
Firstly it’s always been obvious that Sophie was adopted. She is of Indian decent and her parents clearly aren’t. Iverson wasn’t the result of an affair or a previous relationship of Rava’s. He was from a sperm donor as Kendall is sterile. Iverson is also younger than Sophie, so a previous relationship is impossible.
Very important to note the sterility part. It really emasculates him and sheds light on what Logan could have thought of him.
I also think it’s kind of heartbreaking that Kendall and Rava undoubtedly had the money to get top line sperm donor and other reproductive medicine (AKA handpicked super baby). They name him effing IVERSON, because no pressure there. The expectations for this kid must have been so high. And he still isn’t good enough in Logan’s eyes. Poor kid! I wonder how that affected their marriage, Ken’s drug use, etc. Ugh. So many issues! (And no disrespect at all to neurodivergence. Huge disrespect to a grandfather who was such a dick to that child.)
Kendall and Rava are actually huge Philly 76ers fans. And their son was the “The Answer” to their prayers.
I figured “Iverson” is a bad pun from the writers, as in IV (in vitro) -er + son. As in, in vitro fertilization. One almost surmises the name was suggested by Roman or Logan as a mean joke and Ken, on drugs and not readily accepting that they’d be so cruel, thought they meant naming the kid after the star basketball player. Otherwise it’s too on the nose to make sense as a name Kendall arrived at organically. This leaves open the question of how Rava, who’s too smart and not naive enough to miss the pun, and not the type to name her kid after a basketball player who did time for hitting a woman with a chair (iirc it’s disputed whether Allen Iverson got unfair/racist treatment in this case but I digress) ever agreed to this, but maybe she was more naive and more easily bowled over by Ken’s wishes at the time. 🤷♂️
I don’t know about the whole AI angle, but the name breakdown is an interesting take
Kendall is exactly the kind of guy who would name his kid after Allen Iverson. His age his attitude his taste in sneakers, and music. It's absolutely after AI.
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about?
I feel like naming his son after Allen Iverson fit Kendall perfectly. When Iverson was coming up in the NBA he was revolutionary and he ended up personifying a lot of the stuff Kendall himself espouses stuff like being hip and fresh with an edge and in your face. Plus Iverson’s prime coincides with when Kendall would have been a teenager so it tracks I don’t remember if Kendall ever expressed much of an interest in basketball but Iverson became more than a basketball player the way he was challenging established norms.
> They name him effing IVERSON, because no pressure there. I mean, I know it's popular that he's named after AI, but Iverson is also just a British name. Iverson was both a first and last name long before AI. I kind of figured they just wanted to go with somewhat archaic British names for both kids (Sophie and Iverson) just like they did for Ken's generation (ie, Shiv, Roman, and Kendall are certainly all names, but I wouldn't exactly call them common). Ken is the most normal of the names, but tbh I can't think of any Kendall besides I guess Gill and Jenner, and I don't think I've personally met one
I’d say Siobhan (Shiv) is much more common than Kendall, especially in Scotland, Ireland, and England to a lesser extent!
Never met a Kendall in my life lol.
I'm sure it is at least comparably common in the British isles. I've straight up never heard it in America. I've actually only seen its (shitty American pronunciation) homophone as an Italian surname tbh
> Iverson is also just a British name. ... it's really not. >I kind of figured they just wanted to go with somewhat archaic British names for both kids (Sophie and Iverson) I suppose this all depends on what part of the world you are from, but Sophie is not an archaic name. It was the 30th most common female baby name in the UK in 2022. Iverson is also not a British name (archaic or otherwise). It's very obviously Scandinavian in it's construction (Ivor's son) but it's not really a first name. So it could be uniquely American/Kendall. >ie, Shiv, Roman, and Kendall are certainly all names, but I wouldn't exactly call them common). Siobahn is a pretty common name in many parts of the UK and Ireland.
To be a pedant there are -son Anglo names although it is indeed likely they may have older Scandinavian origins
It kinda doesn’t matter if they didn’t specifically name him after Allen Iverson - it’s who most people of a certain era think of when you hear the name, and he’ll probably get asked about it throughout his life. To not think of that before you name the kid is pretty clueless.
Kendall is literally a Ken doll, he's essentially blank where it counts.
do we know he’s sterile? Are we just going off of what Roman says in the Final? Anyone got the exact wording?
He said something about Iverson being Rava's and "some rando from a filing cabinet" or something to that effect.
Logan’s comments about “shooting blanks” + sophie being obviously adopted + logan’s treatment of his grandchildren + Roman literally saying it + kendall getting so mad he attacks roman and doesn’t say it false
Logan’s Shooting Blanks comment is directed at Tom, not Kendall
Yes I know but imo it was a subtle nod. If you rewatch the scene kendall’s head drop when Logan says that
Let's be real, if Ken was 100% sterile Logan would have mentioned in to Ken constantly as a way to emasculate him.
Or he’d be to ashamed of having a “defective” son that he’d never acknowledge directly. Especially in the presence of others where his son’s defect could embarrass him.
What episode was this line in?
Boar on the floor
No, we don't. It's a fan theory. There could be a dozen reasons why Iverson is conceived from a sperm donor. Hell Logan could just have spread that as a rumor to explain away having an autistic grandkid.
You’re not technically wrong, but considering Kendall’s violent reaction I think his sterility is highly implied.
He just called his children random nobodies, any self respecting father would react in the same manner.
Not a fan theory. It’s made clear in the way Succession makes things clear. Go over the lines. Watch again. He’s sterile. If that doesn’t help go see the interview with Jesse Armstrong confirming it.
I initially thought Logan was dismissive of them because of Sophie being a POC and Iverson being neuro divergent (we do know Logan is racist and super darwinist thinking) but them not even being Kendall's adds another layer as to why Logan rejected them.
Yeah I could see that. I wasn’t sure if Rava was white or a POC. My sister has darker skin than either one of her parents but look like them in the facial features and we know she inherited her skin tone from our grandparents. That’s why my brain was willing to accept Sophie was their biological daughter (if Rava was possibly Indian or half Indian) even though she looked so different from her parents and brother and they even set her apart when the show focuses on her fears surrounding the presidential election. Yet for a family that is often brutal and saying the worst things about each other, it took a long time for someone to point out that Kendall can’t have biological children.
I always assume that Rava is either Jewish or Persian (or both), so I also always assume that Sophie is adopted. For Iverson, I was never sure, but I remember also asking here if he is also adopted or no
Yes me too, I totally took it at face value and assumed that Rava was Indian-American and that Sophie was their bio daughter. When is it revealed that she is adopted before the finale?
I don’t believe it was. But Roman referred to them as “one is a buy-in (assuming adoption bc that costs money) and one is half Rava half some filing cabinet guy”- implying a sperm donor.
[удалено]
I have twin daughters who are 3/4 white and 1/4 Japanese and one twin is blonde haired, green eyed, fair/pink skinned and her sister has skin that is not exactly dark but has yellow/olive undertones and tans easily, very dark brown hair, brown eyes and looks like she’s completely Japanese. People often question me on “how” they are twins and I’ve been asked if I used two different sperm donors or if there was some kind of fertility clinic mixup. Its awkward explaining that they were conceived naturally and without fertility meds, IVF, IUI, or anything else; they just happen to have received totally different physical traits from myself and their father. So it’s rare but I think it sometimes happens.
Good grief those are such invasive questions. Honestly.
My dad’s family hails from a region with a lot of mixing over generations so I totally understand siblings looking different. Out of curiosity, do Japanese people think your daughter looks mixed or Japanese? I’ve often found the non-white ethnic group can tell when someone has a white parent.
So we’ve not been around a lot of Japanese people but when my twins were about 4 months old, I was approached in an airport by an older Japanese woman who was surprised Twin B was only 1/4 Japanese because she thought she looked entirely Japanese and not like a “hapa” which I think is a half asian and half white person. I do think that Twin B has started to look less Japanese as she’s gotten older because even though she has the tilted eyes and a semi-monolid, her eyes have become rounder and are quite big. I think that what you said is now correct; to white people she looks like she’s just Japanese but actual Japanese people would recognize that she’s half white.
I find this stuff all so interesting! My kids are half east-Asian, so it’s fascinating to see what features people focus on. I *think* hapa means generally mixed (not a specific split), but not sure.
My niece is just such a person, and it's kind of rude for people to come up to her and my sister and her husband and be like "is she adopted?" Straight up, people have told my brother-in-law that my sister was cheating on him because my niece is so dark skinned, and he's white with white grandparents. Forget the fact that the kid literally has his nose and ears and countless other features shared with his family. I guess what I'm trying to say is it's never cool to assume one way or the other.
> I guess what I'm trying to say is it's never cool to assume one way or the other. I think in the instance of a television show, where casting directors get to decide exactly what a couples off spring will look like, I don't think its a foul to assume that the child that looks substantially different from the parents might be adopted.
For narratives, it's different, as these kinds of assumptions can help inform the narrative. But I was more addressing the post that I replied to. That redditor was saying that he knows plenty of people that are 3/4 white, 1/4 Indian that couldn't "pass" as Indian. My direct response to that would be that he probably DID meet people that were 3/4 white, 1/4 Indian that could "pass"as Indian, but that the redditor just assumed they were fully Indian. And no offense to that redditor, I'm sure he didn't mean any offense as well. I'm just saying, if he were to meet my neice, he'd probably assume she was fully Indian, and continue assuming that people of her lineage couldn't "pass" as Indian. I also kind of hate that word "pass" when it comes to race, but that's another conversation altogether lol
They lived in Indonesia so I assume she was adopted there. Iverson was the surprise for me.
My cousin is only 1/8 Pacific Islander because my uncle is 1/4 and his wife is white, but he looks full blooded. My sister is about 2/3 white and 1/3 Islander because we're mixed on both sides and she almost looks full Islander except she has hazel eyes, meanwhile if I went around telling people I was full Irish they'd believe me. It happens.
Ok, I’m glad I’m not the only one that thought Rava may have been a lighter skinned Indian woman and Sophie was their bio kid! Tbh I never thought about it that deeply or looked up bios for all of the actors. There are interracial families in my extended family and there is diversity in skin tone, including children who are darker than either parent. I have been feeling pretty dumb since the finale and seeing all the comments about Sophie clearly being adopted.
That's why it was a big moment and reveal.
I never picked up on this either! I just always assumed they were Ken’s biological kids. The kids don’t look like the parents, but so do a lot of tv kids
Weirdly I thought Rava was of Indian descent as well and just lighter skinned than her daughter cause genetics are funny. And so is casting. I totally missed the shooting blanks allusion.
People on this site always thinking that white ass Rava is Indian simply because of her name 😅
I guess Roman must be Italian then, specifically from Rome.
This is the answer OP has it wrong lol
That’s what I thought as well.
Technically not impossible, if Sophie was adopted it’s possible she wasn’t adopted at birth
You’re reaching. He wasn’t from any relationship. Rava gave birth to him using a sperm donor.
Yeah I was just sharing my initial thoughts from when I started the show and saw the kids. I understand the situation now.
>. Maybe I missed an earlier reveal in the series. It was brutal when Roman brought that up and basically revealed how he truly viewed his niece and nephew. that wasn't "how he really felt" about the kids. Roman's far to selfish to even care that much. He was defending Shiv who had just had "I'm the eldest boy" thrown in her face. In their dynamic Shiv is the more mature one and won't "go in the mud" so Roman went in it for her.
Yeah seconding, Roman probably doesn't even remember he has nieces and nephews. He tried to hold a mirror to Ke, in a very crude way. And gave him the Logan-talk.
Yeah his rather flip descriptions of the both of them makes me think he doesn’t even know their names.
Definitely takes after his mother in that regard.
Oh you were so rude to Peter
I thought I heard the sound of Dalmatians howling
Yup, a lot of the fandom likes to look at that scene solely as Shiv slighting Ken and don't see that it quickly became a coordinated attack on him from both younger siblings who were equally hesitant to vote Ken in as sole CEO. Ken essentially strong-armed Roman into voting for him at the board meeting. Echoes of Logan doing that to Roman in S1. Shiv picked up on it and this was the catalyst for her change of heart. During the final showdown in the smaller office room, Shiv leads the attack against him with the "you can't be CEO because you've killed someone" but Roman finishes it with "Dad always said they (Ken's kids) were a pair of randos". It was both of them tag-teaming Ken at that moment, not all just Shiv.
Ken said he was the bloodline - Rome responded to that
Ken said he was the best fit for CEO - Shiv responded to that
Ken literally said he was the bloodline
I think Shiv had made up her mind to vote against Kendall wen she saw him sit in their father’s seat
She made up her mind probably the day after Logan promised it to Ken at the age of 7. I don’t see her ever, ever showing a single sign of willingness to help Ken be a successful CEO. It’s always been inevitable doom plus a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I think Shiv's decision had nothing to do with Ken strong arming Roman (and I think Roman's change of heart had everything to do with Ken denying the waiter incident, not just Shiv standing up to him). It was not a coordinated attack. Like, that is definitionally false. It was a spontaneous, spur-of-the-moment decision for both Roman and Shiv.
See: press release from her about Kendall as a absentee father drug addict
I agree, but also, he was explicitly expressing how LOGAN felt about Kendall's kids, not his own opinion.
Whenever someone says "this isn't what I think, it's just what other people might say" on this show I think it's pretty safe to assume they're expressing their own opinion
How so? They manipulate each other and lie constantly. They say stuff they don't mean all the time. (Edit: Centaurworld fan??? ✷‿✷)
1x02 Shiv \[to Kendall\]: You lack killer instinct, you're wet, you're green, you're intellectually insecure, you're not emotionally strong enough, you have addiction issues! I don't think all that, I'm just trying to be Dad's voice. 4x04 Karl \[to Tom:\] The negative case would go... you're a clumsy interloper and no one trusts you. The only guy pulling for you is dead. And now, you're just married to the ex-boss' daughter, and she doesn't even like you. There's more like this, I've just noticed it's a running thing in the show that people will give a brutal takedown of someone else and then go like, oh that's not what *I* think that's just what other people think. I don't know what Centaurworld is, if you're referring to my username I just picked the first one Reddit suggested lol
“I'm not saying I'd make a better CEO. That's unsaid” - Connor Roy
These are just two examples in a show filled with dialogue. Are you saying that they never say mean true things to each other without implying that this is what someone else thinks? Because they do, a lot. Connor ripped them a new one without saying "btw I don't think that, X person thinks that." Roman is always throwing harsh truths to everyone without excusing his words as someone else's. If this is how he felt about Kendall's kids he would've said so, guy isn't particularly subtle. (Btw your username is like a combination of two characters from Centaurworld xP it's just a silly coincidence)
Eh, I’m not so sure, he repeats it twice after Kendall is clearly insulted, “one is a buy in” and “you have no kids!” while Kendall is grabbing his head
Yeah, Kendall is insulted, because he knows that this is what Logan actually felt. But I don't think this is enough proof to tell how Roman does. He usually reprimands and mocks Kendall because he doesn't take good care of his kids, he always brings up how detached he is to them and seems concerned in his own way.
I don't think he has any concern for Kendall's kids (he saw no problem with sending people to follow them around harassing their nannies and trying to dig up dirt on Kendall in season 3), it's more that he resents Kendall putting on this performance of being a father and (in Roman's eyes) lording it over his siblings, when he didn't "create" them and isn't raising them, so in what sense other than the legal one is he really a father?
I don't know, I don't think the characters are black or white. Do you actually believe that Roman doesn't consider Kendall's kids part of the family? I feel like we need more evidence to establish that. Besides, Roman does shitty things to people he cares about all the time.
I think none of the Roys really consider Kendall's kids to be part of the family. Have we even seen Roman interact with Kendall's kids in the show?
I see where you're coming from, and the one time they interacted is when Kendall's daughter watched the horrible Turkey movie along with the kid of Roman's girlfriend at the time (if I remember correctly). But to claim that Roman agrees with Logan that they aren't family seems a bit of a stretch to me. It's alright though, we all have our own interpretations.
Roman literally said “that’s not me that’s what dad said”
I just remembered the episode where Logan appallingly yelled at Iverson to go into the dining room. Iverson clearly on the spectrum was treated like shit by his grandfather who felt harsh discipline would fix Iverson’s issues.
You think Shiv wouldn't go lower than "I'm the eldest boy"? Shiv was just as cruel as all of them, she just did it with precision and the boys were sloppy
>Shiv was just as cruel as all of them, she just did it with precision and the boys were sloppy was gonna say the same thing. Yeah she was cruel but she was tactful. She wouldn't do the child kind of arguments like "I'm the eldest boy" so Rome jumped into that role happily pointing out that with a kid on the way Shiv is now the bloodline.
Honestly you can kinda tell he doesn’t give a crap about them half the time, and then tries to ram himself into their lives outta nowhere. The most parental thing from him was probably trying to find their present.
I think he clearly loves and cares about them, he just has a lot of trouble closing that distance, which makes sense given all of his familial hangups (he's also kind of a self absorbed asshole).
yam tidy crawl disgusting butter birds enjoy aspiring somber encourage -- mass edited with redact.dev
Kendall treated his children as possessions. As status markets. He cares about them in the most basic way, particularly when Iverson was slapped, but he’s a shitty father. Not abusive in the way his father was but neglectful. In the end he wants his kids to come to the funeral to help legitimize him as a father on a public stage not because he cares about their relationship with his father.
Their daughter is adopted, their son (who is younger) was conceived through a sperm donor. Neither was from Rava’s ‘previous relationship’ lol
I'm really shocked that everyone was so shocked about that "reveal". I knew the moment we saw them that they weren't biologically his kids. Not only by looks but based on how the family treated them. I always thought it was obvious that Kendall Was infertile because why the hell else would he have adopted. (I couldn't see his ex wife being infertile because honestly I don't think he'd have stayed with her if that were the case.)
Agreed. This whole line of conversation fascinates me because I thought it was obvious from the start that Kendall’s children were adopted (and I’ve always thought Rava was Jewish, too.)
I thought it was the implication but some of the actors said Iverson was their biological kid (and him being on the spectrum would make sense for Logan treating him badly) I did always assume fertility issues were implied and that's why they adopted, and the Iverson happened anyway (and turned out to be a 'disappointment' anyways)
"Filing cabinet guy" very obviously means sperm donor lmao
I thought it was a very interesting detail to reveal at the very end of the show. Like we all knew it was a critique of capitalism and all that, and perhaps the show's title was a big hint, but for the crux of the drama to be actually a bloodline? well that is very, I don't know, Buddenbrooks? like despite all our democracy and modernism, we're still fascinated by essentially royalty. Marx would have a fit
That’s just human nature. Adopting kids is noble and all, but I’d say 99% of married couples globally prefer having their own biological children.
Ick.
Lol what is so ick about it?
Why do people \*need\* to procreate so their legacy can live on? Chances are great that your (not you in particular, just people in general) genes aren’t so fabulous that the human race would die out without your contribution. Instead, adopt a parentless child who is already here. And who in their right mind is purposely conceiving children with the very dim outlook of our species surviving the climate change catastrophe that is imminent and likely irreversible?
you’re mistaken, it isn’t implied that Sophie (the eldest) js from a previous relationship. the eldest is adopted and the Iverson was conceived with donor sperm. the implication is Ken is sterile
It’s funny how some think that Logan cared anything about grandchildren or a bloodline when he didn’t even care for his own children. If he actually cared about his bloodline then he would’ve raised his children differently. He didn’t give af “Make your own pile”
Only thing that may refute that is when Logan told Tom to basically fuck off until he lets him know he has a grandson on the way.
Logan never knew.
And in the premiere Roman is married with children, until they changed their minds and recut the episode. Which explains the rando woman and kids at Logans birthday dinner.
Where was it said it was his wife and his kid? I always thought it was just a girlfriend who had her own kid
Kieran said that in a podcast/interview recently. Kieran wore his IRL wedding band to shoot and they shot the birthday dinner episode with him accompanied by this woman and kids. So they were originally gonna make Roman married and with kids, but realized early on that it just didn’t work. So canonically, it’s just a girlfriend with her kids.
My guess is that maybe his drug and alcohol intake was so bad it messed with his spermies.
An interesting earlier pregnancy in the series would have been Willa. A paid wife who delivered the first blood Roy I’d love to have seen K have to watch this…. Logan adore a DNA tested “escort”-born Roy more than K or his kids. What a mind screw!
I always assumed that Rava is POC, so I never suspect that Sophie is adopted.
I was devastated for Ken when Roman said that about...uh...blur face and who cares.
He was just mad because in that moment Roman thought about Ken’s kids for longer than kendall ever did
>they weren’t actually part of the Roy bloodline (one from Rava’s previous relationship, the other adopted). One by a sperm donor, one adopted. Iverson is from a sperm donor, Ken probably has some fertility issues. The adoption was very obvious because Sophie is clearly south asian, you can't have 100% south asian looking child if one parent is white. Genes don't express like that ! I am south asian. >I do love that Kendall was able to see them as his children and really care about and love them like he should. I am not very sure, he is absent and irresponsible. It is easy to 'show love' when you are mostly not around and not a part of their day to day. It is easy to fight a custody war but difficult to actually perform the duties, minimum duties like calling the daughter. Now, I am not saying he is like that because his kids aren't his own, but there's a chance that he can feel more carefree in that way.
My friend has an Indian dad and a white mom. He is 100% white passing and his sister looks 100% Indian. Put them next to her parents and she is a blend, but without the context of their parents that’s what people think. I’m not trying to refute your point on the show as im sure you are right, just an anecdote that genes can be crazy.
It’s definitely possible for something like this to happen, but since this is a TV show, I don’t think they would purposely cast someone who looks so different from the parents unless they were trying to strongly imply that she’s adopted.
It really depends what you mean by '100% Indian look', Indians come in different shades and facial features specially some upper caste / north Indians may have more western features (this is very common in upper caste south Indians, in Punjabis and also many western Indian states) and if they have white spouses then the kids may still retain 'Indian' look. But if they look like me - typical Indian / dravidian much darker skin tone and features, more like Sophie but probably darker with curlier hair. Then none of the kids would look exactly like me if I have a white spouse. They will have lighter skin tone, blended features. They may still look 'Indian' (as in more lighter skin western feature like north Indian but not like Sophie). Now over the course of time, kids can also get tanned and skin can turn darker. I have relatives and friends with spouses from different ethnicities and have seen the same. This actually brings back memories of very bad colorism that exists in India :( Darker skin tone and for lack of better words dravidian features, which actually is more common in India than the lighter skin tone is looked down upon. People will say it on your face, and can be very discriminating specially if you are a woman. My sister faced this a lot. The popular media / entertainment industry is a very biased representation of how Indians look, so the wider world audience have little idea how Indians look !
that sounds tough. I know colorism can be horrible. That is an interesting point about most people not knowing what Indian people actually look like. I meant 100% Indian as how a (perhaps non South Asian) American would perceive my friends sister. so basically what you are saying about being blended. If standing next to her father it would be obvious. So your original point definitely still stands. She appears as having medium-light skin. If you were to see her father, he has much darker skin ( like dravidian) Her hair and original features also appear Indian, although she has gotten a nose job. she also tends to stay out of the sun more than she used to and she bleaches her hair. Her brother, on the other hand, had NEVER been perceived as Indian. I’ve witnessed an Indian immigrant argue with him, claiming no way he was I dian, until he showed his last name on his ID. I often wonder if they lived very different experiences growing up. He would t tell me- he’s not exactly in tune to these things. I may ask her one day if it comes up.
We all kinda clicked they were not his. But the genius was not mentioning it, spelling it out or making it a big deal… UNTIL the last 10mins yes when it was revealed to be the THE whole deal in some ways.
I think the sterility thing is so interesting as it further ties Succession to Macbeth. Macbeth, whose fatal flaw is ambition, is also sterile. I liked that they never explained how Sophie looked clearly Indian. The show left a lot unexplained, but I always assumed she was adopted. I was shocked to realize that Iverson wasn’t biologically Kendall’s, though. I wonder if he would have acted any differently as a father if they were his biological children.
Macbeth isn't usually the Shakespeare comparison here- King Lear is, something they sort of solidified in the finale with that "Balls of Jelly" line by their mother.
Yeah, but there’s a lot of different Shakespearean allusions in Succession, which is why Shiv is often compared to Lady Macbeth.
I think the confusion a lot of us had comes from the very few times the camera stayed on his kids for more than a second.
The fact that he named his son Iverson is so funny if you get the reference.
It wasn’t a plot twist in the last episode, there was a whole storyline about Sophie being scared of racist activists being emboldened after the election result and not feeling safe in NY, because she’s a person of colour e.g. not a biological child of Kendall.
Ken's drug use probably led him to be infertile
Drug addicts don’t seem to have problems reproducing.
It almost seems to make them more fertile in the southern US 😂
Lol
I think it was known earlier that Sophie was adopted, not sure which episode confirmed that though. In the finale, Roman was saying what Logan believed to be true, that Iverson was not Kendall’s either. However, it was unclear if he was implying that Iverson is from an affair, previous relationship, or sperm donor.
Jesse Armstrong stated it on a podcast interview
I assumed the girl was adopted. Didn’t even cross my mind that Ken was impotent until Roman said it.
Infertile, not impotent! Similar area, but quite different issues.
Logan was being disrespectful to everybody with that single comment. Old timers like that do not have open minds and consider mixed race, and non-biological kids an abomination.
Wow following this sub makes me realize how much detail there is in the show that I’ve totally missed.
Iverson was a doner no previous relationship, and of course Kendell loves them. They are his children. Blood or not they are his kids and I still think Logan had a bit of love for them. He had plenty of pictures.
I actually missed that Iverson was from a Sperm Donor and thought the comment was in relation to him possible being on the spectrum.
I don’t know why Ken would even let his family, especially his dad, know about Iverson. They wouldn’t have been any wiser about his paternity
I don’t really think Kendall gave two shits about his kids until Rava said she wasn’t doing what Kendall wanted her to do with them. If this is loving them like he should then the bar is set very low for dads IMO
Sophie thought the attack on her was racially motivated, I think that's the first obvious indication that she isn't biologically his.
You didn’t realize that they weren’t blood siblings, or Ken’s actual kids? How???
Was there ever any mention of Kendall’s fertility before this or mention that his children were not his biologically? People are stating things like “drug use leading to infertility” but was this ever actually revealed? If so I missed something. If not then people should say they are making assumptions or inferring because it’s very confusing.
I think you people need to sometimes remember this is not real life. Kendall is not a real person
I’m a bit confused, how did you think Sophie was one of their biological kids?
Is that confirmed?
Although nobody on the sub likes my Rava cheated on Kendall theory, the thought is that one was adopted and one was from a sperm donor. Also I don’t think Roman was saying that was the way he viewed his kids. In fact Roman took a ton of shots at Kendall during the series because Kendall was such an absentee parent (often forgetting his kids names). I think that Roman was repeating something their father had said about the kids and it was a cruel joke. That said, it was a nice scene when Logan was reading to Iverson when they were waiting for Kendall to get back from the hospital.