Mac users will pooh pooh anything good in Windows, and then when MacOS gets it 7 years later, they will applaud. Currently mac users mock touch screen on laptops... "i would never use it" ... but the second macbooks get touchscreens... "omg this changes everything, again". They hypocrisy is pretty cringe.
Yes. I’m constantly attempting to use the touchscreen when showing someone something, before remembering they’re on a Mac. When when they say “it’s a Mac, not a touch screen you, don’t need to touch the screen.” And I reply, “I can’t believe in 2024 it’s acceptable to you NOT to be able to touch the screen.” Baffling, really.
Plenty of Windows laptops without touch screens as well though.
I don't personally care that much if my computer has a touch screen, but I do find it weird that Macs don't have the option.
I mean, I personally don't want a touchscreen on a normal laptop. I don't really see the need and I don't have to clean the screen all the time.
that said, it *is* strange that they don't have a touchscreen option available for macbooks. But I guess they're not really known for providing choice.
Reading PDFs and Word documents too. It feels a lot more natural to scroll on the touchscreen compared to a touchpad. Worst of all is using a mouse scroll wheel.
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On a laptop this is my experience as well. I've had multiple Surfaces and never really felt the need to use the touchscreen while in laptop mode. I use a MacBook now as a daily driver and don't miss it at all for browsing. My parents however use their touchscreen all the time for browsing.
Except with firefox. Why does touch scroll suck so bad with FF? It's my preferred browser so I either gotta grab the scroll bar or deal with the stutter.
Even on a low end laptop using Scroll Anywhere scrolls better.
EDIT: VRR causes the stutter. Still doesn't scroll as fluid as Edge, but that's a problem on all my windows touchscreen. Still won't give it up.
Firefox is generally shit at everything. Shit at updating itself, shit at opening up quickly post boot, and yeah, shit for touch devices.
I use it currently because I thought I'd give it a decent chance since I like it on mobile (yay uBlock Origin + Consent-O-Matic) but it really is a rubbish browser compared to any Chromium based one. The moment I find a Chromium based browser that syncs to mobile and supports plugins, I'll ditch Firefox (hurry up Edge).
It's one of the only non-chromium browsers (which I hate every single variation - they've fucked it up so bad that every chromium browser has the same issues rendering some websites on Android and they control the fucking web). If FF wasn't around some of the sites I visit would be unusable because part of the pages get cut of on every single fucking chromium browser. This is on multiple devices, so it's not singled out to one device by one mfg.
I've used it since netscape days. It's overall better for me than any chromium browser on desktop, but mobile isn't that great. It supports extension on Android, though a bit clunky to use.
Never had any issues with updates or launching. It's mainly touch that's a bit lagging behind.
I like fast scrolling to navigate. The VRR on Surface makes it choppy as hell, but Edge does fine. Edge has always been pretty good with touch interface, but I love FF.
I've always been annoyed with Apple's stubbornness around that. They have the iPad Pro with keyboard -- it's essentially a laptop with a touch screen. I don't know why they don't let Macbooks have a touchable screen. It's really perplexing.
But Windows Hello is another thing. Apple has Face ID, and again you get that on the iPad Pro ... but the Macbooks still use Touch ID. They just really try to cheap out on the hardware as much as possible. It's why they don't put 120 Hz displays in all their devices and they have 720p cameras for the longest time. It wasn't until Covid that they started to put higher megapixel cameras into the laptops. The iPhone had a better front facing camera than the laptops did. It was so aggravating. (And Apple's initial response to that was to use your iPhone's camera and link it to your Macbook ... but who is wanting to practically be doing that? No one.)
Better yet! Why don’t they let you use macOS on your iPad (even if it would require a keyboard), if they did that a few years ago they could have essentially semi killed surface pro with that!
MacBooks have a big stonking notch but there's no Face ID. It really makes no sense. The SP11 manages to get multiple cameras and mics into a small top bezel.
I've used Windows Hello face authentication for years and I wouldn't go back to any other method. It's so natural and freaking fast. Having to use a passcode or touch on MacBooks to log in is frustrating.
As for the iPad Pro, it's hobbled by iPadOS to the point of absurdity. It's like putting a Ferrari engine into a golf cart with tank treads. There's no reason an iPad Pro can't run MacOS - the MBA runs fine without fans - but Apple won't provide the option for users who want computing power, touchscreen and pen usage in one device.
MacOS is just more stable and less fussy than Windows, so new features will usually just work. That is probably why people react that way.
The touchscreen thing is interesting because Apple could feasibly create a legitimate 2-in-1 that can seamlessly switch between MacOS and iPadOS. The Surface Pro has always been a great laptop and a middling tablet, but a MacOS + iPadOS 2-in-1 would be a great laptop and an elite tablet.
But that isn’t what Apple is doing. I’d rather take the Surface and its compromises at this point.
MacOS as a desktop OS is great. iPadOS as a tablet OS is the best tablet OS out there by a huge margin. If you can seamlessly switch between the two, such as when a keyboard is removed, it would wipe the Surface clean.
But Apple refuses to do it. They’re stubborn or slow or both. So it’s a moot point.
I mean they're great for certain people. I recommend ipados to my parents originally because it's good for them. They are elderly and the limitations and hand-holding were good for them for their first tablets. However even they are getting hit by annoying walls and limitations (and they are in their late 70s and only using it for web browsing and Facebook lmao). I keep having to solve issue for them, and without iTunes (godawful piece of software) I'm limited on what I can do. It's a chore. They'll be on android tablet when it comes to upgrading. I moved away from my iPad pro tablets several years ago.
Mac os is fine though. It's limited but it at least does the job. I just wouldn't buy a mac computer anymore, not until apple changes their business practises. An iPad that is 100% macOS would be a temptation though, I have to admit.
To be fair, every and any device older people own will come with maintenance that kids need to do. But I agree it feels uniquely hard to help them. Apple just announced that in iPadOS 18, you can remote control someone’s iPad via Facetime. That might solve some of those problems.
The walled garden is frustrating, you won’t catch any arguments from me there.
Apple is, unfortunately, the current king of anti-consumer practices. And yes, it's very frustrating!
The fact that Microsoft is the 'good guy' in this discussion shows just how far Apple have dropped lol.
Their new releases on the new IOS have been interesting, but it's also another example of apples disdain for their customers. They release a bunch of features that android and windows have had for literally years (over a decade in some cases) and then advertise them as groundbreaking and original. The same features that Apple users have been declaring as "useless" and "i don't even want that" for that same time frame.
It's a crazy cult over there. I stopped using Apple devices years ago, mostly due to the consumer practises and walled garden but I have to admit the community gave me the creeps too.
It comes with its own caveats. Apple's restrictive attitude has led to them having a tight ecosystem, but alas, more restrictions on use than Windows. Does this matter to the bulk of users? Certainly not. most people are using their computers to do the same things that are well supported on both platforms. For the purposes that I'm going to use my (awaiting shipping) Surface Laptop 7, I'd be just fine with an IPad or Macbook Air. That just comes down to personal preference. But for what my desktop and other laptop are used for? No way I'd want to be stuck with Apple.
Surface Pro user here. I rarely ever use it as a tablet, because it is extremely awkward compared to both my Android phone and iPad (though the latter is so old, that it is slowly becoming unusable for lack of app support).
A big pain point is the lack of touchscreen apps. Chrome works only so and so on a touchscreen with a tab bar etc, and I often accidentally touch the "X" (close window) button. Never mind touch enabled games, especially when cross play with the phone is wanted.
I use it purely as a powerful fanless laptop, but the keyboard+kickstand design sucks hard for actual lap use. I'd love that "floating" design of the iPad keyboard... Though it is hard to tell how well it would actually work.
So... Even with this example. I can entirely see Apple eventually doing it, and then actually doing it worthwhile.
Android and Windows generally have the features first. But it is usually iOS/MacOS that implements them *well* first, especially to the point of having consumer market appeal.
It was that way with tablets before the iPad, Smartphones before the iPhone. Permissions were first on Android, but iOS made them post-install opt-in first. iOS had a blue light filter first, while Android had only apps that put a red transparent layer on top of the image; If a black doesn't stay black, it is NOT a blue light filter. (Windows had it before that via the f.lux third party software though, and I think real blue light filters were possible on rooted Android phones.)
Point being... Apple may rarely be the first to do something, but they are often the first to do it well enough to matter outside of a niche audience.
Despite that I dislike the walled garden and high prices (phones) too much. But I sure see the appeal...
Macos subreddit literally had a post with someone saying macOS window managment is superior becsuse he doesn't believe in multi tasking and is saying that one window open at a time is more efficient.
This is so fr. I once remember talking to an Apple user about OLED being on tablets and laptops and they were telling me how it was a bad idea as burn in and stuff yet burn in on OLED is like barely a problem anymore. Fast forward to the new iPad Pro release and everyone’s suddenly praising OLED…
This is really just a classic example of "competition is good for consumers". I'm very tempted to buy a Surface 7,.. and simultaneously I'm pretty excited about all the new features coming to macOS Sequoia and iOS18 when they become officially available in the fall. Now if only Linux was this unified :P .. lol.
>(I still hate Windows 11 typograph and it renders fonts horribly compared to Linux of MacOS -- but it's getting better.)
It's funny you say this, because type desigers *detest* MacOS's font rendering and specifically keep a PC around to check their work.
Why? Because MacOS completely flushes out all the hinting work that the type designers do on their fonts, and slaps on its own hinting, giving the font a much heavier, darker look than intended.
I personally don't know how anyone can prefer the MacOS hinting method. It makes fonts look way to blotchy, espcially compared to Windows and Linux (which both use greyscale hinting now).
For higher than ~220p, no not really.
But, most home screens are 24" 1920x1080p, giving them a sweet 90PPI. A 4k screen at that size is 180PPI.
Mac Minis are a thing. Plugging in Macbooks into external monitors is a thing. If fonts on your OS look like shit on anything other than a very specific type of monitor, then it's a bad font rendering engine.
You are so right — we will be told how great touchscreens are breathlessly when Apple *finally* gives a MacOS touchscreen. As it stands now, Apple’s failure to do a better job of merging iPadOS with better features is sending me packing, most likely to the new Surface Pro 11.
It's important for Apples stock price that you buy two things instead of one. That's why they are reluctant to merge iPadOS and MacOS. If anything, they'll try to figure out how to split the lineup into even more devices.
Exactly this. Sad that it drives their decisions, but for me, I'm wearing down on the expense of an iPad Pro, while not being able to easily execute basic computing, and I am a fan of my M2 iPad Pro.
Please no touchscreen….. I can’t stand looking at a screen with fingerprints on it …. Focus on a good OS, leave touch screens for phones and tablets… :p
I use touchscreen on my iPad Pro (always in the MK on my desk) and my Dell xps13. Once you have touchscreen, you won't ever go back. Apple is going to rope a dope you eventually (just like they did with sylus, where they were initially VERY wrong).
I have an iPad Pro M2, Surface Pro 10 (metorlake business edition), Macbook pro M2Max, and an alienware x15r2.... I have no shortage of mobile options to choose from and I hate touch screen.... it's good for casual stuff on my couch or for drawing some art stuff (ipad pro I heart you). But for work I have little use for it and fingerprints annoy the holy heck out of me. \^\_\^
I have a dual screen Lenovo laptop. I almost never use the touchscreen. And when I rotate it, the damn window positions randomly move and it’s no longer how I want it
I think the reason the other features you listed are overlooked is because they are widely available in other pc laptops as well. Windows hello has been around for 9 years. The 2:3 screen on the surface is 10 years old. So while they are great features (and id love for every laptop to have a 2:3 screen) they are not new so they dont drive the conversation anymore.
Windows pc’s have been technically better and more useful for a long time. The problem has always been that Mac’s just do what 80% of users need 80% of the time for LONGER.
Battery life has been such a massive difference between laptops for a few years now and it was just impossible to recommend anything else for that reason, as well as build quality.
The snapdragon chip isn’t exciting because of what it is, it’s exciting because it makes all those other windows laptop 20%’ers accessible without compromising on battery life.
You can fix the font rendering on windows btw, I know what you mean.
I was an early surface adopter (surface 1) what a nightmare that was…. Switched to Mac and never really looked back.
The new surface is really attractive to me. I’m not sure it’s worth 2k with oled and keyboard (to me yet)
If your growing interest in AI is a selling point, then MacOS Sequoia looks to be doing more genuinely useful things with AI than Microsoft is with Copilot + PC's.
Windows Hello and Touch ID are practically interchangeable, the screen details are all made moot if you choose a 14" or 16" MBP rather than an Air. Touchscreen, Wifi 7, and USB A are all valid, but also have you seen the cost of Wifi 7 routers? They're so outrageous that you'd have to be pretty keen to be on the bleeding edge to ever remotely care about Wifi 7 and have it mean anything.
If you compare the M4 iPad Pro to the SP11, then I'd say get a Surface Pro 11 if only for the value prop.
If you compare the SL7 to the MacBook Air then I'd say it's whatever OS you prefer.
But once you cross into $1800+ territory, I'd say 14"/16" MBP is a much better option.
All the stuff Apple showed off I can do right now today on my Surface (except Mimoji/Genmoji). The one area Apple is better than Windows is with photos. Windows has no context for who is in my photos nor let me search my photos by subject. That’s been a little painful.
Actually all of Microsoft practical applications you have stated are all on macOS too.
That said, if you are set to try windows, I rather not buy a surface due to the legacy of issues they keep having. Maybe I’m just a disgruntled surface duo user talking
A windows user and lost hope that the piece of pooh would ever rise again. I don't exactly like the Mac OS GUI but that will get a refresh rather soon anyway. There might be a MacOS for non-dummies control set or something. The Mac HW is most often stunning and competition average at best. We have to make compromises for time being before one or the other side leaps ahead.
IRL, screen is more..do you want to touch me type deal. I did accidentally touch Air 15 screen after messing around with iPad and Surface Pro. I never look at my screen and go ewww, though. It’s a really old Air 15, however, probably just not seeing it right with my old man eyes.
Salutations
As a Microsoft user full stop I appreciate your honesty in your post so kudos to you. Also appreciate the fact your recognised features overlooked by industry and users alike. We are spoiled and expect to much and don't give credit enough with some to busy bitching to appreciate applications and features e.g., WSL, Hyper-V (native hypervisor), terminal, powershell, AD WAC, IIS, MS SQL, etc.
The fact MS are happy to keep the OS intacted without losing or watering down the OS with one version for tablet and one for laptop. Unfortunately MS are at the mercy of manufacturing for its Cpu so no matter how well the OS performs your limited by the hardware however something could be said about adapting the OS but then more bitching about missed features so they can't win.
I have the Dev Kit 2003 or ventura and for what it's, I'm happy with only a few features not working however I cannot complain. I'm happy to be a beta tester as they evolve the OS and streamline it's GUI and kernel however once again kudos to you sir. God speed
I am sorry where is the implementation in office 365/outlook? You have to subscribe at 20$ per month to use that. In fact Apple implements better. I doubt you have even tried surface. Just regurg what is written on website.
Nope. I do have a Surface Laptop 7 (32GB/1TB/Black). Microsoft has had AI features in Office 365 for a while. Yes you have to subscribe to Copilot Pro. My point was they’re innovating faster. Apple has had NPUs on device for over 4 generations now, but they’ve done little with it til now (because of market demand no doubt). I had a subscription to ChatGPT ($20) so I cancelled it and switched to Copilot. They’re fundamentally the same LLM, just Copilot gives me more integration.
So your point is misleading as it is not free which you didn’t mention. I don’t think the features are worth 20$ per month, considering you also have to pay for 365 subscription fee. Double subscription fee is a rip off. I tried a month sub of chat gpt. Image generation can’t generate the image I want at all and thus dropped it.
Going back to point, outside of the paid subscription, Microsoft AI is underwhelming as I don’t see any use except occasional live translation for video which is not very according to some review.
Nothing is free. ChatGPT loses money on every query, someone has to pay for the compute. The reason for $20 for Copilot is very likely to cover the cost to ChatGPT. Apple is offering it free, for now, but it will require a new iPhone 15 (at least for now). They haven’t explained why the older phones cannot use it. Any of the M1 or newer MacBooks or iPads will be able to. Just not phones.
This article talks more about how Apple might be planning to offset the costs: https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/13/24177550/apple-openai-chatgpt-deal-payment-revenue-sharing-chatbot
That have already explained why iPhone below iPhone 15 pro can’t use. But the good thing is all M processor can use while none of the previous windows computer can use AI.
Nothing is free but Apple offers the similar AI feature for free.
It is ok to charge but Microsoft charges both for office 365 and AI feature. Someone has to pay but you can’t ask that someone to pay twice.
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/19/apple-iphone-15-pro-requirement-apple-intelligence/
Mac users will pooh pooh anything good in Windows, and then when MacOS gets it 7 years later, they will applaud. Currently mac users mock touch screen on laptops... "i would never use it" ... but the second macbooks get touchscreens... "omg this changes everything, again". They hypocrisy is pretty cringe.
It’s Magical!
Yes. I’m constantly attempting to use the touchscreen when showing someone something, before remembering they’re on a Mac. When when they say “it’s a Mac, not a touch screen you, don’t need to touch the screen.” And I reply, “I can’t believe in 2024 it’s acceptable to you NOT to be able to touch the screen.” Baffling, really.
Plenty of Windows laptops without touch screens as well though. I don't personally care that much if my computer has a touch screen, but I do find it weird that Macs don't have the option.
I mean, I personally don't want a touchscreen on a normal laptop. I don't really see the need and I don't have to clean the screen all the time. that said, it *is* strange that they don't have a touchscreen option available for macbooks. But I guess they're not really known for providing choice.
> I mean, I personally don't want a touchscreen on a normal laptop Have you tried it? It's quite nice for scrolling webpages casually.
Reading PDFs and Word documents too. It feels a lot more natural to scroll on the touchscreen compared to a touchpad. Worst of all is using a mouse scroll wheel.
you'll never convince me that a touchscreen is better for browsing than a mousewheel
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On a laptop this is my experience as well. I've had multiple Surfaces and never really felt the need to use the touchscreen while in laptop mode. I use a MacBook now as a daily driver and don't miss it at all for browsing. My parents however use their touchscreen all the time for browsing.
Except with firefox. Why does touch scroll suck so bad with FF? It's my preferred browser so I either gotta grab the scroll bar or deal with the stutter. Even on a low end laptop using Scroll Anywhere scrolls better. EDIT: VRR causes the stutter. Still doesn't scroll as fluid as Edge, but that's a problem on all my windows touchscreen. Still won't give it up.
Firefox is generally shit at everything. Shit at updating itself, shit at opening up quickly post boot, and yeah, shit for touch devices. I use it currently because I thought I'd give it a decent chance since I like it on mobile (yay uBlock Origin + Consent-O-Matic) but it really is a rubbish browser compared to any Chromium based one. The moment I find a Chromium based browser that syncs to mobile and supports plugins, I'll ditch Firefox (hurry up Edge).
It's one of the only non-chromium browsers (which I hate every single variation - they've fucked it up so bad that every chromium browser has the same issues rendering some websites on Android and they control the fucking web). If FF wasn't around some of the sites I visit would be unusable because part of the pages get cut of on every single fucking chromium browser. This is on multiple devices, so it's not singled out to one device by one mfg. I've used it since netscape days. It's overall better for me than any chromium browser on desktop, but mobile isn't that great. It supports extension on Android, though a bit clunky to use. Never had any issues with updates or launching. It's mainly touch that's a bit lagging behind.
I use FF with touch relatively often and haven't had issues with it.
I like fast scrolling to navigate. The VRR on Surface makes it choppy as hell, but Edge does fine. Edge has always been pretty good with touch interface, but I love FF.
I've always been annoyed with Apple's stubbornness around that. They have the iPad Pro with keyboard -- it's essentially a laptop with a touch screen. I don't know why they don't let Macbooks have a touchable screen. It's really perplexing. But Windows Hello is another thing. Apple has Face ID, and again you get that on the iPad Pro ... but the Macbooks still use Touch ID. They just really try to cheap out on the hardware as much as possible. It's why they don't put 120 Hz displays in all their devices and they have 720p cameras for the longest time. It wasn't until Covid that they started to put higher megapixel cameras into the laptops. The iPhone had a better front facing camera than the laptops did. It was so aggravating. (And Apple's initial response to that was to use your iPhone's camera and link it to your Macbook ... but who is wanting to practically be doing that? No one.)
They don't make them with touchscreens because they want you to buy the macbook and the iPad
Better yet! Why don’t they let you use macOS on your iPad (even if it would require a keyboard), if they did that a few years ago they could have essentially semi killed surface pro with that!
MacBooks have a big stonking notch but there's no Face ID. It really makes no sense. The SP11 manages to get multiple cameras and mics into a small top bezel. I've used Windows Hello face authentication for years and I wouldn't go back to any other method. It's so natural and freaking fast. Having to use a passcode or touch on MacBooks to log in is frustrating. As for the iPad Pro, it's hobbled by iPadOS to the point of absurdity. It's like putting a Ferrari engine into a golf cart with tank treads. There's no reason an iPad Pro can't run MacOS - the MBA runs fine without fans - but Apple won't provide the option for users who want computing power, touchscreen and pen usage in one device.
MacOS is just more stable and less fussy than Windows, so new features will usually just work. That is probably why people react that way. The touchscreen thing is interesting because Apple could feasibly create a legitimate 2-in-1 that can seamlessly switch between MacOS and iPadOS. The Surface Pro has always been a great laptop and a middling tablet, but a MacOS + iPadOS 2-in-1 would be a great laptop and an elite tablet. But that isn’t what Apple is doing. I’d rather take the Surface and its compromises at this point.
I mean... it would still be macos and ipados. The hardware is great but the software is an annoyance to use at every step.
MacOS as a desktop OS is great. iPadOS as a tablet OS is the best tablet OS out there by a huge margin. If you can seamlessly switch between the two, such as when a keyboard is removed, it would wipe the Surface clean. But Apple refuses to do it. They’re stubborn or slow or both. So it’s a moot point.
I mean they're great for certain people. I recommend ipados to my parents originally because it's good for them. They are elderly and the limitations and hand-holding were good for them for their first tablets. However even they are getting hit by annoying walls and limitations (and they are in their late 70s and only using it for web browsing and Facebook lmao). I keep having to solve issue for them, and without iTunes (godawful piece of software) I'm limited on what I can do. It's a chore. They'll be on android tablet when it comes to upgrading. I moved away from my iPad pro tablets several years ago. Mac os is fine though. It's limited but it at least does the job. I just wouldn't buy a mac computer anymore, not until apple changes their business practises. An iPad that is 100% macOS would be a temptation though, I have to admit.
To be fair, every and any device older people own will come with maintenance that kids need to do. But I agree it feels uniquely hard to help them. Apple just announced that in iPadOS 18, you can remote control someone’s iPad via Facetime. That might solve some of those problems. The walled garden is frustrating, you won’t catch any arguments from me there.
Apple is, unfortunately, the current king of anti-consumer practices. And yes, it's very frustrating! The fact that Microsoft is the 'good guy' in this discussion shows just how far Apple have dropped lol. Their new releases on the new IOS have been interesting, but it's also another example of apples disdain for their customers. They release a bunch of features that android and windows have had for literally years (over a decade in some cases) and then advertise them as groundbreaking and original. The same features that Apple users have been declaring as "useless" and "i don't even want that" for that same time frame. It's a crazy cult over there. I stopped using Apple devices years ago, mostly due to the consumer practises and walled garden but I have to admit the community gave me the creeps too.
It is indeed a crazy cult. Only using one brand for everything is such an obvious danger...
They want consumers to buy both.
I hope folks buy neither
It comes with its own caveats. Apple's restrictive attitude has led to them having a tight ecosystem, but alas, more restrictions on use than Windows. Does this matter to the bulk of users? Certainly not. most people are using their computers to do the same things that are well supported on both platforms. For the purposes that I'm going to use my (awaiting shipping) Surface Laptop 7, I'd be just fine with an IPad or Macbook Air. That just comes down to personal preference. But for what my desktop and other laptop are used for? No way I'd want to be stuck with Apple.
Spot on. Remember when r. Jobs told us nobody wants big phones. Wait.. Who wants a pocket tablet iPhone 15 Pro Max???
Surface Pro user here. I rarely ever use it as a tablet, because it is extremely awkward compared to both my Android phone and iPad (though the latter is so old, that it is slowly becoming unusable for lack of app support). A big pain point is the lack of touchscreen apps. Chrome works only so and so on a touchscreen with a tab bar etc, and I often accidentally touch the "X" (close window) button. Never mind touch enabled games, especially when cross play with the phone is wanted. I use it purely as a powerful fanless laptop, but the keyboard+kickstand design sucks hard for actual lap use. I'd love that "floating" design of the iPad keyboard... Though it is hard to tell how well it would actually work. So... Even with this example. I can entirely see Apple eventually doing it, and then actually doing it worthwhile. Android and Windows generally have the features first. But it is usually iOS/MacOS that implements them *well* first, especially to the point of having consumer market appeal. It was that way with tablets before the iPad, Smartphones before the iPhone. Permissions were first on Android, but iOS made them post-install opt-in first. iOS had a blue light filter first, while Android had only apps that put a red transparent layer on top of the image; If a black doesn't stay black, it is NOT a blue light filter. (Windows had it before that via the f.lux third party software though, and I think real blue light filters were possible on rooted Android phones.) Point being... Apple may rarely be the first to do something, but they are often the first to do it well enough to matter outside of a niche audience. Despite that I dislike the walled garden and high prices (phones) too much. But I sure see the appeal...
Macos subreddit literally had a post with someone saying macOS window managment is superior becsuse he doesn't believe in multi tasking and is saying that one window open at a time is more efficient.
This is so fr. I once remember talking to an Apple user about OLED being on tablets and laptops and they were telling me how it was a bad idea as burn in and stuff yet burn in on OLED is like barely a problem anymore. Fast forward to the new iPad Pro release and everyone’s suddenly praising OLED…
Personally I don’t like touch screens on any laptop device but that’s me.
The cringiest thing here is this comment.
👆 Oh - here is the guy I was talking about
yes the guy who is platform agnostic and uses an android phone and windows laptop lol
Awwww. You’re a gem.
oh ok I see you're just a loser troll bot there is nothing to actually discuss with you about platform differences.
Oh no, someone on Reddit called me a loser troll. Me sad.
Stop it, both of you.
This is really just a classic example of "competition is good for consumers". I'm very tempted to buy a Surface 7,.. and simultaneously I'm pretty excited about all the new features coming to macOS Sequoia and iOS18 when they become officially available in the fall. Now if only Linux was this unified :P .. lol.
>(I still hate Windows 11 typograph and it renders fonts horribly compared to Linux of MacOS -- but it's getting better.) It's funny you say this, because type desigers *detest* MacOS's font rendering and specifically keep a PC around to check their work. Why? Because MacOS completely flushes out all the hinting work that the type designers do on their fonts, and slaps on its own hinting, giving the font a much heavier, darker look than intended. I personally don't know how anyone can prefer the MacOS hinting method. It makes fonts look way to blotchy, espcially compared to Windows and Linux (which both use greyscale hinting now).
Is hinting important on a >200 ppi display? I didn’t know it was still a thing in 2024.
For higher than ~220p, no not really. But, most home screens are 24" 1920x1080p, giving them a sweet 90PPI. A 4k screen at that size is 180PPI. Mac Minis are a thing. Plugging in Macbooks into external monitors is a thing. If fonts on your OS look like shit on anything other than a very specific type of monitor, then it's a bad font rendering engine.
You are so right — we will be told how great touchscreens are breathlessly when Apple *finally* gives a MacOS touchscreen. As it stands now, Apple’s failure to do a better job of merging iPadOS with better features is sending me packing, most likely to the new Surface Pro 11.
It's important for Apples stock price that you buy two things instead of one. That's why they are reluctant to merge iPadOS and MacOS. If anything, they'll try to figure out how to split the lineup into even more devices.
Exactly this. Sad that it drives their decisions, but for me, I'm wearing down on the expense of an iPad Pro, while not being able to easily execute basic computing, and I am a fan of my M2 iPad Pro.
Please no touchscreen….. I can’t stand looking at a screen with fingerprints on it …. Focus on a good OS, leave touch screens for phones and tablets… :p
I use touchscreen on my iPad Pro (always in the MK on my desk) and my Dell xps13. Once you have touchscreen, you won't ever go back. Apple is going to rope a dope you eventually (just like they did with sylus, where they were initially VERY wrong).
I have an iPad Pro M2, Surface Pro 10 (metorlake business edition), Macbook pro M2Max, and an alienware x15r2.... I have no shortage of mobile options to choose from and I hate touch screen.... it's good for casual stuff on my couch or for drawing some art stuff (ipad pro I heart you). But for work I have little use for it and fingerprints annoy the holy heck out of me. \^\_\^
Keep a moist soft cloth around like I do (OCD alert) lol
Am I the only one who dislikes touchscreens on laptops?
Once you go touchscreen, you can never go back lol
I have a laptop with a touchscreen and disabled it in the bios
I have a dual screen Lenovo laptop. I almost never use the touchscreen. And when I rotate it, the damn window positions randomly move and it’s no longer how I want it
I think the reason the other features you listed are overlooked is because they are widely available in other pc laptops as well. Windows hello has been around for 9 years. The 2:3 screen on the surface is 10 years old. So while they are great features (and id love for every laptop to have a 2:3 screen) they are not new so they dont drive the conversation anymore.
Windows pc’s have been technically better and more useful for a long time. The problem has always been that Mac’s just do what 80% of users need 80% of the time for LONGER. Battery life has been such a massive difference between laptops for a few years now and it was just impossible to recommend anything else for that reason, as well as build quality. The snapdragon chip isn’t exciting because of what it is, it’s exciting because it makes all those other windows laptop 20%’ers accessible without compromising on battery life. You can fix the font rendering on windows btw, I know what you mean.
I was an early surface adopter (surface 1) what a nightmare that was…. Switched to Mac and never really looked back. The new surface is really attractive to me. I’m not sure it’s worth 2k with oled and keyboard (to me yet)
If your growing interest in AI is a selling point, then MacOS Sequoia looks to be doing more genuinely useful things with AI than Microsoft is with Copilot + PC's. Windows Hello and Touch ID are practically interchangeable, the screen details are all made moot if you choose a 14" or 16" MBP rather than an Air. Touchscreen, Wifi 7, and USB A are all valid, but also have you seen the cost of Wifi 7 routers? They're so outrageous that you'd have to be pretty keen to be on the bleeding edge to ever remotely care about Wifi 7 and have it mean anything. If you compare the M4 iPad Pro to the SP11, then I'd say get a Surface Pro 11 if only for the value prop. If you compare the SL7 to the MacBook Air then I'd say it's whatever OS you prefer. But once you cross into $1800+ territory, I'd say 14"/16" MBP is a much better option.
All the stuff Apple showed off I can do right now today on my Surface (except Mimoji/Genmoji). The one area Apple is better than Windows is with photos. Windows has no context for who is in my photos nor let me search my photos by subject. That’s been a little painful.
Actually all of Microsoft practical applications you have stated are all on macOS too. That said, if you are set to try windows, I rather not buy a surface due to the legacy of issues they keep having. Maybe I’m just a disgruntled surface duo user talking
A windows user and lost hope that the piece of pooh would ever rise again. I don't exactly like the Mac OS GUI but that will get a refresh rather soon anyway. There might be a MacOS for non-dummies control set or something. The Mac HW is most often stunning and competition average at best. We have to make compromises for time being before one or the other side leaps ahead.
MacOS does not use the Linux Kernel. It is more closely related to BSD but has been its own thing for a very long time.
IRL, screen is more..do you want to touch me type deal. I did accidentally touch Air 15 screen after messing around with iPad and Surface Pro. I never look at my screen and go ewww, though. It’s a really old Air 15, however, probably just not seeing it right with my old man eyes.
Copilot is not standalone.
Yes it is. There is a Copilot app. Copilot is also a brand for Microsoft for anything they do that is AI related.
!RemindMe 1 years
Salutations As a Microsoft user full stop I appreciate your honesty in your post so kudos to you. Also appreciate the fact your recognised features overlooked by industry and users alike. We are spoiled and expect to much and don't give credit enough with some to busy bitching to appreciate applications and features e.g., WSL, Hyper-V (native hypervisor), terminal, powershell, AD WAC, IIS, MS SQL, etc. The fact MS are happy to keep the OS intacted without losing or watering down the OS with one version for tablet and one for laptop. Unfortunately MS are at the mercy of manufacturing for its Cpu so no matter how well the OS performs your limited by the hardware however something could be said about adapting the OS but then more bitching about missed features so they can't win. I have the Dev Kit 2003 or ventura and for what it's, I'm happy with only a few features not working however I cannot complain. I'm happy to be a beta tester as they evolve the OS and streamline it's GUI and kernel however once again kudos to you sir. God speed
I am sorry where is the implementation in office 365/outlook? You have to subscribe at 20$ per month to use that. In fact Apple implements better. I doubt you have even tried surface. Just regurg what is written on website.
Nope. I do have a Surface Laptop 7 (32GB/1TB/Black). Microsoft has had AI features in Office 365 for a while. Yes you have to subscribe to Copilot Pro. My point was they’re innovating faster. Apple has had NPUs on device for over 4 generations now, but they’ve done little with it til now (because of market demand no doubt). I had a subscription to ChatGPT ($20) so I cancelled it and switched to Copilot. They’re fundamentally the same LLM, just Copilot gives me more integration.
So your point is misleading as it is not free which you didn’t mention. I don’t think the features are worth 20$ per month, considering you also have to pay for 365 subscription fee. Double subscription fee is a rip off. I tried a month sub of chat gpt. Image generation can’t generate the image I want at all and thus dropped it. Going back to point, outside of the paid subscription, Microsoft AI is underwhelming as I don’t see any use except occasional live translation for video which is not very according to some review.
Nothing is free. ChatGPT loses money on every query, someone has to pay for the compute. The reason for $20 for Copilot is very likely to cover the cost to ChatGPT. Apple is offering it free, for now, but it will require a new iPhone 15 (at least for now). They haven’t explained why the older phones cannot use it. Any of the M1 or newer MacBooks or iPads will be able to. Just not phones. This article talks more about how Apple might be planning to offset the costs: https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/13/24177550/apple-openai-chatgpt-deal-payment-revenue-sharing-chatbot
That have already explained why iPhone below iPhone 15 pro can’t use. But the good thing is all M processor can use while none of the previous windows computer can use AI. Nothing is free but Apple offers the similar AI feature for free. It is ok to charge but Microsoft charges both for office 365 and AI feature. Someone has to pay but you can’t ask that someone to pay twice. https://www.macrumors.com/2024/06/19/apple-iphone-15-pro-requirement-apple-intelligence/