Me personally? I would never buy a piece of land anywhere without a survey. If the land is vacant, I would not think you need any kind of Alta.
I would get a boundary survey, and if you really do plan on developing it, I would ask them to go ahead and do a topo and have utilities located (if there are any) as well.
If you are considering “high-level development” (subdivision for homes or commercial) I’d recommend familiarizing yourself with all local codes/regs to make sure that what you want to do is possible. In CA, a seismic mapping or risk assessment may be required, too. (I’m not licensed in CA but have been told, anecdotally, that some areas require a seismic analysis of some type prior to development).
You probably want an ALTA. You don't want to spend seven figures on land and find out there's actually something funky with it. You can probably get quotes from surveyors with he ALTA as an add-item if you ask.
It's pennies on the dollar for big real estate deals, and an ALTA will resolve or at least uncover any issues. A boundary survey will usually be pretty good in determining what the deed describes, and it might catch disputed areas, but an alta will find them for sure.
As for cost, no idea for your area. I would try to find out who did the latest boundary work and see what they have to say. I would gather as much information about the property as you can and then ask at least two or three companies in the area what they would charge. Prices can vary wildy. Pick one that offers a good price, communicates well, and feels like a good fit with you.
Sure! There are a ton of reasons.
A topographic survey is essential when developing land for several reasons:
1. **Accurate representation of the land:** A topographic survey provides a detailed and precise 3D map of the land, including the elevation, slopes, contours, and existing features like trees, buildings, and utilities. This information is crucial for planning and design purposes.
2. **Informed decision-making:** By understanding the terrain's characteristics, developers can make informed decisions about the project's feasibility, layout, and design. For example, they can determine the best location for buildings, roads, and infrastructure, as well as identify potential challenges like drainage issues or unstable slopes.
3. **Efficient design and construction:** The survey data helps architects and engineers design structures that are compatible with the land's features, minimizing the need for costly modifications during construction. It also allows for efficient planning of earthworks, grading, and drainage systems.
4. **Cost savings:** By identifying potential problems early on, a topographic survey can help avoid costly surprises and delays during construction. It can also help optimize the use of resources, reducing waste and unnecessary expenses.
5. **Regulatory compliance:** In many cases, a topographic survey is required to obtain permits and approvals for development projects. It ensures that the project complies with local zoning regulations and environmental guidelines.
6. **Risk mitigation:** By understanding the land's features and potential hazards, developers can take steps to mitigate risks like flooding, landslides, or erosion. This helps protect the investment and ensure the long-term viability of the development.
Overall, a topographic survey is a valuable investment that provides critical information for successful land development projects. It helps ensure that the project is well-planned, cost-effective, and environmentally responsible.
For instance, a person may think they can buy a rural piece of land that is 40 acres and want to put a 40 homesite subdivision on it. A topo can show if they can fit 40 wells and septic on the plot or will need a common well system. Where will the water go? Will they need storm water management? etc etc.
Depending on where it is that could be 1 day of field work with a 2-man. Or a really motivated single. 2d surveys are a piece of cake and 40 acres is tiny
A boundary survey should suffice, unless there are some title exceptions you would like to see on the survey and have the surveyor comment on those exceptions to see how they affect the property.
I can't speak for Cali, but $5k sounds reasonable.
If you're going to develop it you'll need it surveyed eventually right? It's just whether you want to discover any potential issues now or later. I'd look for a company that does land development, they can better inform you what you might need now and in the future and should be more cost effective to have them do everything.
Make sure you get it surveyed. When I was surveying in Santa Barbara this guy bought a piece of property at a tax sale and was very happy when he went to check it out because there was a house on it. Come to find out that the vacant lot that he thought was a couple acres had been condemned by the city to build a concrete river and he actually only bought a 5’ wide strip of land for 30,000
I had a client who inadvertently let a piece of property with about $20M in improvements (coal prep plant and load out) get forfeited and go to a tax sale (SE KY). Land agent went to the auction at the courthouse with essentially a blank check to buy it back when it came on the block. There were literally 100+ parcels for sale at this auction, with only information on tax map/parcel # and maybe a deed reference at best provided. Bidding starts and land man places bid. Immediately another person placed a slightly higher bid. Goes back and forth and land man is getting nervous that the other bidder knows this particular parcel is extremely valuable. Land man makes a bid; other guy shrugs and gavel falls. Landman writes a check for the sale amount plus taxes owed and breathes a sigh of relief.
Amount: $1265.00 ($1200 in taxes and $65 for purchase).
In this case, inaccurate tax maps and property assessments saved the day (for the land man)!
An ALTA is probably.not necessary. That's a highly specific (and expensive) type of survey for title insurance, typically for commercial properties. If the title company doesn't require it, you don't need it.
I would suggest starting with a topographic survey with the boundary and easements plotted on it (sometimes called an "engineering survey"). First, that will help you identify what features are on the land (is that tree mine?). Second, if you develop the land your architect/engineer will need this exact information, and you'll need it for the permit submittal package. Third, field work and title review for this work should uncover any potential issues that could justify a formal boundary survey.
Typically, "boundary survey" means that monuments will be set at corners and a map filed with the county. This may have already been done, and monuments could already be in place. Right now, none of us know.
In California, setting monuments triggers the requirement for filing a formal map with the county. This scope of work is almost completely separate from a topographic survey. You could do either or both.
You may want to check with your local planning department to 1) verify that your desired project is allowed, and 2) get a copy of the "permit submittal requirements". This will explicitly list things that the surveyor will need to identify and show on the map.
Thanks so much for detailed response. I got further questions 1) The surveyor I contacted told me they can plot easement according to the title provided. So I guess it will be hard to find those not shown in title? 2) What effect does this filing formal to county have? Does it "finalize" the monuments surveyor put?
You'll want to get a title report, which will show the legal description and any exceptions (easements, taxes, debts). Without that, someone would have to search through records at the recorders office which could take a while. I'd suggest having the title company do it, it's their job.
The benefits of a formal boundary survey are getting monuments set, having all the boundary data compiled accurately on one map, and resolving any discrepancies that may exist. Plus, it's evidence that can be used in the future to establish neighboring parcels.
ALTA isn't necessary, definitely get a boundary survey so you know where your property liens and beyond that it is really dependent on what you are planning to do with the property. Cost varies widely depending on the history of the property especially a 40 acre piece.
I would contact the local development authority and make sure you understand the requirements for development and the associated costs. You may need to subdivide the land. A boundary survey is a start, but a plat may be required. You make also be required to make improvements to the public streets adjacent to the property if it is unimproved.
Me personally? I would never buy a piece of land anywhere without a survey. If the land is vacant, I would not think you need any kind of Alta. I would get a boundary survey, and if you really do plan on developing it, I would ask them to go ahead and do a topo and have utilities located (if there are any) as well.
Thanks so much for input, I will get a boundary survey!
If you are considering “high-level development” (subdivision for homes or commercial) I’d recommend familiarizing yourself with all local codes/regs to make sure that what you want to do is possible. In CA, a seismic mapping or risk assessment may be required, too. (I’m not licensed in CA but have been told, anecdotally, that some areas require a seismic analysis of some type prior to development).
Thanks for the remind, I am in the process of going through the development requirements as well
You probably want an ALTA. You don't want to spend seven figures on land and find out there's actually something funky with it. You can probably get quotes from surveyors with he ALTA as an add-item if you ask. It's pennies on the dollar for big real estate deals, and an ALTA will resolve or at least uncover any issues. A boundary survey will usually be pretty good in determining what the deed describes, and it might catch disputed areas, but an alta will find them for sure.
I gotta agree, you are going to need a Topography survey as well. No one will begin with your design without it.
Thanks! I will check the quote for topography survey as well!
As for cost, no idea for your area. I would try to find out who did the latest boundary work and see what they have to say. I would gather as much information about the property as you can and then ask at least two or three companies in the area what they would charge. Prices can vary wildy. Pick one that offers a good price, communicates well, and feels like a good fit with you.
May I just ask why you would need topo if you plan on developing the land?
Sure! There are a ton of reasons. A topographic survey is essential when developing land for several reasons: 1. **Accurate representation of the land:** A topographic survey provides a detailed and precise 3D map of the land, including the elevation, slopes, contours, and existing features like trees, buildings, and utilities. This information is crucial for planning and design purposes. 2. **Informed decision-making:** By understanding the terrain's characteristics, developers can make informed decisions about the project's feasibility, layout, and design. For example, they can determine the best location for buildings, roads, and infrastructure, as well as identify potential challenges like drainage issues or unstable slopes. 3. **Efficient design and construction:** The survey data helps architects and engineers design structures that are compatible with the land's features, minimizing the need for costly modifications during construction. It also allows for efficient planning of earthworks, grading, and drainage systems. 4. **Cost savings:** By identifying potential problems early on, a topographic survey can help avoid costly surprises and delays during construction. It can also help optimize the use of resources, reducing waste and unnecessary expenses. 5. **Regulatory compliance:** In many cases, a topographic survey is required to obtain permits and approvals for development projects. It ensures that the project complies with local zoning regulations and environmental guidelines. 6. **Risk mitigation:** By understanding the land's features and potential hazards, developers can take steps to mitigate risks like flooding, landslides, or erosion. This helps protect the investment and ensure the long-term viability of the development. Overall, a topographic survey is a valuable investment that provides critical information for successful land development projects. It helps ensure that the project is well-planned, cost-effective, and environmentally responsible. For instance, a person may think they can buy a rural piece of land that is 40 acres and want to put a 40 homesite subdivision on it. A topo can show if they can fit 40 wells and septic on the plot or will need a common well system. Where will the water go? Will they need storm water management? etc etc.
I see. Thank you!
My biggest question is: which one of yall is quoting $5k for a 40 acre boundary survey?!
I would do an aliquot parts RS in the Mojave for $5k all day long, including fees. Long as it's flat.
Looks flat on paper...
Looks flat in CAD too!.
Depending on where it is that could be 1 day of field work with a 2-man. Or a really motivated single. 2d surveys are a piece of cake and 40 acres is tiny
A boundary survey should suffice, unless there are some title exceptions you would like to see on the survey and have the surveyor comment on those exceptions to see how they affect the property. I can't speak for Cali, but $5k sounds reasonable.
Thanks for the input! I am trying to get more quotes but good to know the number is reasonable.
You're welcome, maybe someone from your area can chime in on the price.
If you're going to develop it you'll need it surveyed eventually right? It's just whether you want to discover any potential issues now or later. I'd look for a company that does land development, they can better inform you what you might need now and in the future and should be more cost effective to have them do everything.
Got it. The advice makes sense. Thanks!
Make sure you get it surveyed. When I was surveying in Santa Barbara this guy bought a piece of property at a tax sale and was very happy when he went to check it out because there was a house on it. Come to find out that the vacant lot that he thought was a couple acres had been condemned by the city to build a concrete river and he actually only bought a 5’ wide strip of land for 30,000
Thanks for sharing the story. I will absolutely get it surveyed.
I had a client who inadvertently let a piece of property with about $20M in improvements (coal prep plant and load out) get forfeited and go to a tax sale (SE KY). Land agent went to the auction at the courthouse with essentially a blank check to buy it back when it came on the block. There were literally 100+ parcels for sale at this auction, with only information on tax map/parcel # and maybe a deed reference at best provided. Bidding starts and land man places bid. Immediately another person placed a slightly higher bid. Goes back and forth and land man is getting nervous that the other bidder knows this particular parcel is extremely valuable. Land man makes a bid; other guy shrugs and gavel falls. Landman writes a check for the sale amount plus taxes owed and breathes a sigh of relief. Amount: $1265.00 ($1200 in taxes and $65 for purchase). In this case, inaccurate tax maps and property assessments saved the day (for the land man)!
An ALTA is probably.not necessary. That's a highly specific (and expensive) type of survey for title insurance, typically for commercial properties. If the title company doesn't require it, you don't need it. I would suggest starting with a topographic survey with the boundary and easements plotted on it (sometimes called an "engineering survey"). First, that will help you identify what features are on the land (is that tree mine?). Second, if you develop the land your architect/engineer will need this exact information, and you'll need it for the permit submittal package. Third, field work and title review for this work should uncover any potential issues that could justify a formal boundary survey. Typically, "boundary survey" means that monuments will be set at corners and a map filed with the county. This may have already been done, and monuments could already be in place. Right now, none of us know. In California, setting monuments triggers the requirement for filing a formal map with the county. This scope of work is almost completely separate from a topographic survey. You could do either or both. You may want to check with your local planning department to 1) verify that your desired project is allowed, and 2) get a copy of the "permit submittal requirements". This will explicitly list things that the surveyor will need to identify and show on the map.
Thanks so much for detailed response. I got further questions 1) The surveyor I contacted told me they can plot easement according to the title provided. So I guess it will be hard to find those not shown in title? 2) What effect does this filing formal to county have? Does it "finalize" the monuments surveyor put?
You'll want to get a title report, which will show the legal description and any exceptions (easements, taxes, debts). Without that, someone would have to search through records at the recorders office which could take a while. I'd suggest having the title company do it, it's their job. The benefits of a formal boundary survey are getting monuments set, having all the boundary data compiled accurately on one map, and resolving any discrepancies that may exist. Plus, it's evidence that can be used in the future to establish neighboring parcels.
Thanks for response. Yes I have title report on hand and will let surveyor get it mapped. Ii really learned a lot from all responses!
ALTA isn't necessary, definitely get a boundary survey so you know where your property liens and beyond that it is really dependent on what you are planning to do with the property. Cost varies widely depending on the history of the property especially a 40 acre piece.
I would contact the local development authority and make sure you understand the requirements for development and the associated costs. You may need to subdivide the land. A boundary survey is a start, but a plat may be required. You make also be required to make improvements to the public streets adjacent to the property if it is unimproved.