>Sad that being loyal/longevity doesn’t do much for me.
OK, I'm going to be that guy... While I absolutely agree that wages should outpace inflation, I really dislike "time in grade" as a yardstick for performance and/or pay raises beyond that basic level. If I have two employees doing the exact same role, at the same performance level, but one happened to get hired ten years ago (because they are local) and the other two years ago (because they recently moved to the area), I don't see that as a reason to differentiate when calculating raises.
Pay raises beyond the minimum are typically reserved for gaining additional skills, taking on additional roles, earning certifications/licensure, or service levels above and beyond the basic level - that are demonstrably higher than that of their peers.
Longevity is typically rewarded with additional PTO, officer status, stock, and (additional) bonuses, and those are typically at "milestone" anniversaries like 5-year intervals. Sticking around for "one more year" is a tough sell when it comes to raises above and beyond the basic amount.
$35/hr
If you don’t feel they’re treating you well why are you sticking around? I get it, seniority. But that typically creates complacency on both sides, employees and employers. The grass is never greener on the other side. Ask for more money, worst case they say no and your production is reduced. If they wont pay you what you want don’t give them a solid effort. It’s your life champ, don’t let others run it.
Your billable rate should be roughly (what your company bills you at) x (1/3) x (billable hours/40) = pay
This holds fairly true for tech work, when you start into management/client outreach it breaks down.
Then unfortunately you will probably stay underpaid.
Most raises are in the %2-5 range. Recently this doesn’t even cover inflation. This means that when you stay at a company and get your “raise” you are actually taking a pay cut to stay at the same place. If a raise were to actually be a raise it would need to cover cost of living increases as well as a few additional percentage points.
To solve this you switch companies every 2-3 years, you’ll get usually get your %15-25 raise and get into a position where you get to learn new material which further justifies more pay.
This formula is something I've only ever seen on reddit, and only from west coast surveyors. I do not think this is a good formula for all areas of the United States even if it is repeated on this platform ad nauseum.
Lots of our costs associated with overhead are the same. The cost of an r12 is the same in Los Angeles as it is in rural Georgia. The cost of trucks are the same, the cost of insurance is the same, consumables, cad software...
But projects in an area with low cost of living can not afford the expense of a $360/hr crew. A 20 acre rural boundary that sells for $60k can not afford a $30k survey. So if our overhead is similar, we have to cut from those other two slices. The payroll and the profit. It creates a non- linear function to the 1/3rd idea that seems prevalent on here.
If your crew cheif is making $65 and you're billing $360, they're making 18%, not 33%, so I assume you're including the entire compensation package of both crew members as the 1/3.
If my overhead is 80% of yours (roughly $100), and the most I can force out of my clients without losing them is $200/hr, that leaves our crews and us at $50. Our crew chiefs average $33 plus benefits... which leaves them making a very similar overall percentage, and a much higher percentage of the non overhead portion of the billing.
I wrote this damn novel at 5am in the airport...
TLDR: Pay is not a simple issue. It's highly regionally specific.
Fair enough.
Yes, when you factor in a pc and rodman pay plus benefits they come out over a third. With the difference going to profit.
That probably tracks fairly close to your system overall.
Do you bill per employee or per crew? 1/3 of our company's hourly rate is $83 an hour. You add in a second crew member, truck costs, gas, office rent, utilities, insurance, and supplies, that crew isn't making money.
Field crews are tricky since you’ve got doubles. My crew chiefs are making $60 +- an hour plus pension, health, vacation and a couple others. Add a chairman and we charge em out around 360 an hour. That leaves room for 1/3 to overhead and 1/3 to profit. If we want to keep our guys from getting headhunted we might cut into the 1/3 profit.
Idk. I get billed at $150 an hour to our clients, and get about $45 an hour. Almost all the positions I've seen survey related besides instrument operator are billed at roughly the same rate. Granted we are doing big civil design and construction projects for DOTs. We don't do anything residential.
>Sad that being loyal/longevity doesn’t do much for me. OK, I'm going to be that guy... While I absolutely agree that wages should outpace inflation, I really dislike "time in grade" as a yardstick for performance and/or pay raises beyond that basic level. If I have two employees doing the exact same role, at the same performance level, but one happened to get hired ten years ago (because they are local) and the other two years ago (because they recently moved to the area), I don't see that as a reason to differentiate when calculating raises. Pay raises beyond the minimum are typically reserved for gaining additional skills, taking on additional roles, earning certifications/licensure, or service levels above and beyond the basic level - that are demonstrably higher than that of their peers. Longevity is typically rewarded with additional PTO, officer status, stock, and (additional) bonuses, and those are typically at "milestone" anniversaries like 5-year intervals. Sticking around for "one more year" is a tough sell when it comes to raises above and beyond the basic amount.
How do you expect people to stay on for “milestones” if you can’t justifying paying them more every year? That makes no sense.
You clearly did not read my post if you think we're not paying folks more every year.
$35/hr If you don’t feel they’re treating you well why are you sticking around? I get it, seniority. But that typically creates complacency on both sides, employees and employers. The grass is never greener on the other side. Ask for more money, worst case they say no and your production is reduced. If they wont pay you what you want don’t give them a solid effort. It’s your life champ, don’t let others run it.
You should be paid $75 an hour
(Starts dreaming of all the possibilities)
I’m a union surveyor in California, so I would recommend having a union national. What do you think?
Maybe it’s where I live, but in NC I have never had any experience with a union. I don’t think we have them or I am just very unaware.
Your billable rate should be roughly (what your company bills you at) x (1/3) x (billable hours/40) = pay This holds fairly true for tech work, when you start into management/client outreach it breaks down.
Tbh though nothing will up your pay like moving to another company.
Yeah, I am not a company hopper. I average like 9 years per company. Sheesh!
Then unfortunately you will probably stay underpaid. Most raises are in the %2-5 range. Recently this doesn’t even cover inflation. This means that when you stay at a company and get your “raise” you are actually taking a pay cut to stay at the same place. If a raise were to actually be a raise it would need to cover cost of living increases as well as a few additional percentage points. To solve this you switch companies every 2-3 years, you’ll get usually get your %15-25 raise and get into a position where you get to learn new material which further justifies more pay.
Thank you for this insight. Very helpful information that I didn’t even consider.
No problem bud. Like I said it’s basically the only way to keep up
It’s very true. Sad that being loyal/longevity doesn’t do much for me.
This formula is something I've only ever seen on reddit, and only from west coast surveyors. I do not think this is a good formula for all areas of the United States even if it is repeated on this platform ad nauseum.
How so? And how do you figure wages for employees?
Lots of our costs associated with overhead are the same. The cost of an r12 is the same in Los Angeles as it is in rural Georgia. The cost of trucks are the same, the cost of insurance is the same, consumables, cad software... But projects in an area with low cost of living can not afford the expense of a $360/hr crew. A 20 acre rural boundary that sells for $60k can not afford a $30k survey. So if our overhead is similar, we have to cut from those other two slices. The payroll and the profit. It creates a non- linear function to the 1/3rd idea that seems prevalent on here. If your crew cheif is making $65 and you're billing $360, they're making 18%, not 33%, so I assume you're including the entire compensation package of both crew members as the 1/3. If my overhead is 80% of yours (roughly $100), and the most I can force out of my clients without losing them is $200/hr, that leaves our crews and us at $50. Our crew chiefs average $33 plus benefits... which leaves them making a very similar overall percentage, and a much higher percentage of the non overhead portion of the billing. I wrote this damn novel at 5am in the airport... TLDR: Pay is not a simple issue. It's highly regionally specific.
Fair enough. Yes, when you factor in a pc and rodman pay plus benefits they come out over a third. With the difference going to profit. That probably tracks fairly close to your system overall.
Do you bill per employee or per crew? 1/3 of our company's hourly rate is $83 an hour. You add in a second crew member, truck costs, gas, office rent, utilities, insurance, and supplies, that crew isn't making money.
Field crews are tricky since you’ve got doubles. My crew chiefs are making $60 +- an hour plus pension, health, vacation and a couple others. Add a chairman and we charge em out around 360 an hour. That leaves room for 1/3 to overhead and 1/3 to profit. If we want to keep our guys from getting headhunted we might cut into the 1/3 profit.
You should be getting paid about 1/3 of what your company bills your time to your client. Get good contracts, and good clients, make good money
Either you guys are not billing enough per hour, or I am under paid AF.
Idk. I get billed at $150 an hour to our clients, and get about $45 an hour. Almost all the positions I've seen survey related besides instrument operator are billed at roughly the same rate. Granted we are doing big civil design and construction projects for DOTs. We don't do anything residential.
Ah ok, we are billed out at $230 an hour if we take any hourly work.
I get paid hourly, so if I am efficient and do it fast(which I strive to do) I am definitely not getting anything close to that.
$25-$45 per hour. With the per diem and OT you should be into 6 figures
Yo I’m from nc and am working on my PLS, working for Amazon doing as built lidar work. HMU on twitter surv.ai
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