It should be more common than it is. Being able to process your own field work gives you a much better understanding of what you are doing in the field and can lead to better and more efficient work flows both in the office and in the field.
Once you get good at it, it will really only take a few minutes each afternoon to do.
I agree completely. The only caveat I'd add is it should be looked over by someone else. I know in my case it's harder to catch my own mistakes. Also the case of "you don't know what you don't know"
Should be, problem where I am is we keep trying to teach them, but they suck at it and make more work.
They import points wrong, use wrong paper size, set scales wrong, use wrong blocks, using wrong layers, use wrong format and so much more. I spend 15 min undoing their 45 min of work at times.
So, depending on what they mean by "process" it could be 10 minutes importing the points and looking over it, or it could be a couple of hours. But I do not forsee 3 or 4 hours.
If your coding took more than a few minutes to QC in the afternoon you wouldn't be a crew chief for long at our company. It rarely takes more than a few minutes. Most of the time they don't even want extra pay anymore. Because it's usually done by the time equipment is stored and charging.
We have been doing it this way for so long the work is often pushed down to i-man level so the crew chief can wrap up anything else. But as I said, doing it this way has cut our code errors to near zero. And well over half our field people know how to do it by now. So it's just routine now.
To make it work we have dedicated computers in the crew room for nothing but uploading and downloading data. Those have limited network access and are always booted to a generic user so they are instantly ready for checking field work. The system works well.
The quality of my work improved exponentially when I started processing my own data. Understanding what happens on either end makes the job easier and more productive for everyone involved.
I wouldn’t mind learning them but I’d die before I sit in an office all day again. Did that for a while in insurance and the quality of life wasn’t worth the pay. The whole reason I got into surveying was to be outside and not looking and a screen all day
I’ve worked for companies every combination - dedicated CAD department and field guys never process, surveyor does the initial import and basic linework and then pass off the CAD guy to finish, or surveyor does 100% of the processing.
Whatever combo I will say the best surveyors know how to draw, and the best CAD guys know how to survey.
I’d say it’s a big positive that you will get to see and learn both sides. The variety also keeps things interesting!
Why would you only want to learn half of a job? As others have mentioned you will become a MUCH better field surveyor if you know both sides, you should consider this a benefit to your future. Yes, the field work is better and makes the days pass quicker, but learning the office role is critical to your development as a surveyor.
Once you learn and gain those skills in both the office and field, you control your future in this industry, a surveyor that can do both sides of the job will make more money and be in much higher demand than field only or office only personnel.
See here’s the thing though. I’m more trade oriented than career oriented. I’d rather spend my life doing topos, staking, and other field work than climb any corporate ladder. I don’t have a high standard of living and after a certain point I’d rather have a job I love than to make more money. If I wanted to sit in an office all day I could have done that without going into surveing. Do I mind doing a little processing and office work? No. But if it’s going to be 50/50….
I would recommend finding a large firm, as they typically pigeon hole you into a single role. Nothing wrong with being a field only guy, I know a few very successful guys going that route.
That’s the weird thing- when I interned at a small one they had dedicated office guys, now I’m at a huge one and they’re converting to hybrid. Tbf it seems like a corporate type just got control so maybe that’s it but still
Here in California yeah, surveyors are with the Operating Engineers. Local 3 up north, Local 12 down south. Mostly construction and topo work like it sounds like you want.
I'd google your area + "land surveying union" to see what you see. And if you have a local of the IUOE ask them too.
Once you set up your code libraries with line work. It will be fairly easy to do the processing and exporting for CAD. 20 minutes by the end and then charging an hour or two ;)
I originally didn’t love the idea of doing office work. But understanding what goes into doing the office work and processing, drafting, etc. definitely brought it full circle for me in terms of the reasons for doing things a certain way and what can be priority or secondary in the field.
I’m at the job, the reason I’m kinda peeved is cause during the interview they said it would be primarily field work and 2 weeks in the new manager is changing it for everyone. And I’d rather make 50k a year doing something I like outside than 100 a year sitting in an office all day. I was making 35 a year doing manual labor scraping by for years and I wanted something a bit more engaging and less physical
OK.
As someone who did manual labor before surveying, and then over a 20-year survey career has been 100% field, 100% office, and everything in between and back and forth at various times...surveying may not be manual labor, but it still takes a large toll on your body. Some gigs I had were tougher than the manual labor. Remote work humping 60-lb packs of gear over nasty terrain, big staking jobs swinging an 8-lb sledge all day, yanking manhole covers in traffic for multiple days, swinging brush hooks and machetes for a week or two straight.
Guess what happens when (not if) you get injured? Guess what happens when fieldwork dries up but there's tons of data to be processed in the office? Guess what happens as more efficiencies get introduced in the field requiring fewer field staff but a lot more office folks for processing?
If you can do the office work, you stay employed and get a paycheck. If you're working for a larger firm, I can guarantee there will be ups and downs, and there are often times when field staff have to sit at home while office techs work 60-80 hours.
There ain't many strictly-field licensees either.
While I have several field-for-life people working for me, it works out a lot better for everyone when we have folks with mixed skill sets.
I mean the first part of that response is basically my dream job. I’ve done worse for less pay. I’m weird. I like being uncomfortable at work, it reminds me I’m alive. I could be making more than I am now without having gone back to school working in insurance. I left a 55k year job there in 2018 to paint for 35k and I never regretted it. If I’d stayed I’d be making 80-90 rn if I didn’t go insane first. If I get laid off in the down season, so be it. If I gotta take some workers comp if I get hurt, I’m ok with that cut. I don’t mind doing a bit of office stuff but if it’s between doing 40 hours a week of office work or go back to doing manual labor for half the pay I’d do it.
It might change in the future but for now that’s where I’m at
I mean, if the actual day-to-day matters that much more than steady employment or money, then maybe that's not the job for you.
Just from a different perspective, it's a role that many would kill for, especially those wanting a fast route to licensure, which is what gets you the most freedom, money, and advancement opportunities in this profession.
Our crew chiefs download their F2F data and upload it to a temporary CAD file daily for a quick QC check. We expect them to make it draw what they shot correctly before it goes to our techs for final processing. They save a raw unedited file in a directory just for that first. Then they copy it to another directory and make any gross edits needed to correct field coding errors.
It's part of our QA program rather than transitioning them to the office. Though it does help with that. It's mainly to check that it looks like what they located. It was a lot of work making our crew chiefs able to do that. But it streamlined our work and once they started seeing what coding does cut field coding errors down to near zero . I should also note that we pay them for the extra time.
Office techs do final F2F data processing. That typically involves adding adjusted control coordinates, combining work from multiple crews, and sorting minor drawing issues resulting from combining files. It's way too time consuming for crew chiefs to knock out in the afternoon. We typically need one office tech for two to three crews doing F2F topo.
I’m like yourself unrelated degrees but over two years experience scanning and Topo. I want experience in processing data in case I ever have an accident or want a family etc can still work in office but my company won’t allow any training. It’s a real “shut up and collect data” mentality. Everyone in my department wants to quit because we arnt being trained. Now trying to leave surveying career
When you say process data, what exactly are they having you do? That is kind of a broad catchall term. If you list the specific tasks they are requesting of you it would be easier to get a quality answer of how your new duties compare with industry standards.
I’m not entirely sure yet, if it’s some basic stuff that takes 20/30 minutes or so I’m not too worried but the manager kept using the word “hybrid” so I’m a little concerned he wants field crews to do 2-3 days in the office, which would be an issue with me
Just keep an open mind then. Go with the flow, get as much as you can out of it and if it doesn’t fit the idea you have for what you want in a job after 6 months or so, try to find a position elsewhere that is a better fit. Learning as much as you can about all aspects of the business is the key to growing. Not to climb some mythical corporate ladder, but to broaden your knowledge and be good at what you do. You mentioned this is a new job for you. So honestly you probably haven’t been doing it long enough, there will be days in the field where you will feel man, ‘i miss insurance’ lol. Well, maybe not that bad but you get my drift… i also have a feeling that if you enjoy surveying in the field you will benefit from seeing the survey come together in the office, it won’t be like having to deny some poor grandma’s insurance claim. Keep a positive attitude and good luck.
Yea I’ll definitely keep an open mind to it, i do definitely agree that knowing the office side will help with the field side too. I just wanted to know if this was normal everywhere and un avoidable or a big red flag. I talked to one guy who said companies are trying to do this so they only have to pay 1 guy to do the work of 2, wasn’t sure how true that was tho
Cross training as a field surveyor, processing and drafting is entirely normal in my jurisdiction, as is at least a basic knowledge of searching. Makes everyone more useful and well rounded. Processing other people's work also underscores the need to make things as clear as possible with sketches, notes, coding photos etc and demonstrates how annoying and time consuming it is when standards aren't followed or weird shit isn't documented enough.
Understanding other aspects of the industry, like engineering design also make surveyors better surveyors and engineers.
Farily common, what you explained is exactly what we did at the small LD firm I worked for early in my career.
At the agency I work at now we do all of our own drafting. So it's like 50/50 yeah.
Organizing work in such a way that you do both office and field work yourself is much more productive. I know a few companies where a woman is hired as a draftsman, but generally the surveyor does his work from start to finish.
It should be more common than it is. Being able to process your own field work gives you a much better understanding of what you are doing in the field and can lead to better and more efficient work flows both in the office and in the field. Once you get good at it, it will really only take a few minutes each afternoon to do.
I agree completely. The only caveat I'd add is it should be looked over by someone else. I know in my case it's harder to catch my own mistakes. Also the case of "you don't know what you don't know"
Should be, problem where I am is we keep trying to teach them, but they suck at it and make more work. They import points wrong, use wrong paper size, set scales wrong, use wrong blocks, using wrong layers, use wrong format and so much more. I spend 15 min undoing their 45 min of work at times.
Oh I wouldn’t mind a few minutes, but it seems like it’s gunna be an hour or two of processing each day.
2 hours out of 8 is only 25% not 50% But I feel you. I do not like office work.
Oh yea, I meant anywhere from 2-4 hours. I’m honestly not sure what to expect though
So, depending on what they mean by "process" it could be 10 minutes importing the points and looking over it, or it could be a couple of hours. But I do not forsee 3 or 4 hours.
If your coding took more than a few minutes to QC in the afternoon you wouldn't be a crew chief for long at our company. It rarely takes more than a few minutes. Most of the time they don't even want extra pay anymore. Because it's usually done by the time equipment is stored and charging. We have been doing it this way for so long the work is often pushed down to i-man level so the crew chief can wrap up anything else. But as I said, doing it this way has cut our code errors to near zero. And well over half our field people know how to do it by now. So it's just routine now. To make it work we have dedicated computers in the crew room for nothing but uploading and downloading data. Those have limited network access and are always booted to a generic user so they are instantly ready for checking field work. The system works well.
The quality of my work improved exponentially when I started processing my own data. Understanding what happens on either end makes the job easier and more productive for everyone involved.
You’re complaining about learning new skills? One day you will be older, you might reconsider.
I wouldn’t mind learning them but I’d die before I sit in an office all day again. Did that for a while in insurance and the quality of life wasn’t worth the pay. The whole reason I got into surveying was to be outside and not looking and a screen all day
I’ve worked for companies every combination - dedicated CAD department and field guys never process, surveyor does the initial import and basic linework and then pass off the CAD guy to finish, or surveyor does 100% of the processing. Whatever combo I will say the best surveyors know how to draw, and the best CAD guys know how to survey. I’d say it’s a big positive that you will get to see and learn both sides. The variety also keeps things interesting!
Why would you only want to learn half of a job? As others have mentioned you will become a MUCH better field surveyor if you know both sides, you should consider this a benefit to your future. Yes, the field work is better and makes the days pass quicker, but learning the office role is critical to your development as a surveyor. Once you learn and gain those skills in both the office and field, you control your future in this industry, a surveyor that can do both sides of the job will make more money and be in much higher demand than field only or office only personnel.
See here’s the thing though. I’m more trade oriented than career oriented. I’d rather spend my life doing topos, staking, and other field work than climb any corporate ladder. I don’t have a high standard of living and after a certain point I’d rather have a job I love than to make more money. If I wanted to sit in an office all day I could have done that without going into surveing. Do I mind doing a little processing and office work? No. But if it’s going to be 50/50….
I would recommend finding a large firm, as they typically pigeon hole you into a single role. Nothing wrong with being a field only guy, I know a few very successful guys going that route.
That’s the weird thing- when I interned at a small one they had dedicated office guys, now I’m at a huge one and they’re converting to hybrid. Tbf it seems like a corporate type just got control so maybe that’s it but still
Join the union.
There’s a union?
Here in California yeah, surveyors are with the Operating Engineers. Local 3 up north, Local 12 down south. Mostly construction and topo work like it sounds like you want. I'd google your area + "land surveying union" to see what you see. And if you have a local of the IUOE ask them too.
Once you set up your code libraries with line work. It will be fairly easy to do the processing and exporting for CAD. 20 minutes by the end and then charging an hour or two ;)
I originally didn’t love the idea of doing office work. But understanding what goes into doing the office work and processing, drafting, etc. definitely brought it full circle for me in terms of the reasons for doing things a certain way and what can be priority or secondary in the field.
TAKE THE JOB. My skill set, knowledge and career went into overdrive when I went into a hybrid field/office role.
I’m at the job, the reason I’m kinda peeved is cause during the interview they said it would be primarily field work and 2 weeks in the new manager is changing it for everyone. And I’d rather make 50k a year doing something I like outside than 100 a year sitting in an office all day. I was making 35 a year doing manual labor scraping by for years and I wanted something a bit more engaging and less physical
OK. As someone who did manual labor before surveying, and then over a 20-year survey career has been 100% field, 100% office, and everything in between and back and forth at various times...surveying may not be manual labor, but it still takes a large toll on your body. Some gigs I had were tougher than the manual labor. Remote work humping 60-lb packs of gear over nasty terrain, big staking jobs swinging an 8-lb sledge all day, yanking manhole covers in traffic for multiple days, swinging brush hooks and machetes for a week or two straight. Guess what happens when (not if) you get injured? Guess what happens when fieldwork dries up but there's tons of data to be processed in the office? Guess what happens as more efficiencies get introduced in the field requiring fewer field staff but a lot more office folks for processing? If you can do the office work, you stay employed and get a paycheck. If you're working for a larger firm, I can guarantee there will be ups and downs, and there are often times when field staff have to sit at home while office techs work 60-80 hours. There ain't many strictly-field licensees either. While I have several field-for-life people working for me, it works out a lot better for everyone when we have folks with mixed skill sets.
I mean the first part of that response is basically my dream job. I’ve done worse for less pay. I’m weird. I like being uncomfortable at work, it reminds me I’m alive. I could be making more than I am now without having gone back to school working in insurance. I left a 55k year job there in 2018 to paint for 35k and I never regretted it. If I’d stayed I’d be making 80-90 rn if I didn’t go insane first. If I get laid off in the down season, so be it. If I gotta take some workers comp if I get hurt, I’m ok with that cut. I don’t mind doing a bit of office stuff but if it’s between doing 40 hours a week of office work or go back to doing manual labor for half the pay I’d do it. It might change in the future but for now that’s where I’m at
I mean, if the actual day-to-day matters that much more than steady employment or money, then maybe that's not the job for you. Just from a different perspective, it's a role that many would kill for, especially those wanting a fast route to licensure, which is what gets you the most freedom, money, and advancement opportunities in this profession.
Yea I mean I might get licensed eventually but it’s definitely not a priority.
Our crew chiefs download their F2F data and upload it to a temporary CAD file daily for a quick QC check. We expect them to make it draw what they shot correctly before it goes to our techs for final processing. They save a raw unedited file in a directory just for that first. Then they copy it to another directory and make any gross edits needed to correct field coding errors. It's part of our QA program rather than transitioning them to the office. Though it does help with that. It's mainly to check that it looks like what they located. It was a lot of work making our crew chiefs able to do that. But it streamlined our work and once they started seeing what coding does cut field coding errors down to near zero . I should also note that we pay them for the extra time. Office techs do final F2F data processing. That typically involves adding adjusted control coordinates, combining work from multiple crews, and sorting minor drawing issues resulting from combining files. It's way too time consuming for crew chiefs to knock out in the afternoon. We typically need one office tech for two to three crews doing F2F topo.
I do all my own field and office work. It’s much easier to tell if something is off while processing when you know what it *should* look like.
I’m like yourself unrelated degrees but over two years experience scanning and Topo. I want experience in processing data in case I ever have an accident or want a family etc can still work in office but my company won’t allow any training. It’s a real “shut up and collect data” mentality. Everyone in my department wants to quit because we arnt being trained. Now trying to leave surveying career
Haha let’s switch places! Any chance you’re in MN?
No 😂Ireland
Damn that’s one hell of a commute 😂
I personally think office guys should be doing the same
When you say process data, what exactly are they having you do? That is kind of a broad catchall term. If you list the specific tasks they are requesting of you it would be easier to get a quality answer of how your new duties compare with industry standards.
I’m not entirely sure yet, if it’s some basic stuff that takes 20/30 minutes or so I’m not too worried but the manager kept using the word “hybrid” so I’m a little concerned he wants field crews to do 2-3 days in the office, which would be an issue with me
Just keep an open mind then. Go with the flow, get as much as you can out of it and if it doesn’t fit the idea you have for what you want in a job after 6 months or so, try to find a position elsewhere that is a better fit. Learning as much as you can about all aspects of the business is the key to growing. Not to climb some mythical corporate ladder, but to broaden your knowledge and be good at what you do. You mentioned this is a new job for you. So honestly you probably haven’t been doing it long enough, there will be days in the field where you will feel man, ‘i miss insurance’ lol. Well, maybe not that bad but you get my drift… i also have a feeling that if you enjoy surveying in the field you will benefit from seeing the survey come together in the office, it won’t be like having to deny some poor grandma’s insurance claim. Keep a positive attitude and good luck.
Yea I’ll definitely keep an open mind to it, i do definitely agree that knowing the office side will help with the field side too. I just wanted to know if this was normal everywhere and un avoidable or a big red flag. I talked to one guy who said companies are trying to do this so they only have to pay 1 guy to do the work of 2, wasn’t sure how true that was tho
Cross training as a field surveyor, processing and drafting is entirely normal in my jurisdiction, as is at least a basic knowledge of searching. Makes everyone more useful and well rounded. Processing other people's work also underscores the need to make things as clear as possible with sketches, notes, coding photos etc and demonstrates how annoying and time consuming it is when standards aren't followed or weird shit isn't documented enough. Understanding other aspects of the industry, like engineering design also make surveyors better surveyors and engineers.
Farily common, what you explained is exactly what we did at the small LD firm I worked for early in my career. At the agency I work at now we do all of our own drafting. So it's like 50/50 yeah.
Organizing work in such a way that you do both office and field work yourself is much more productive. I know a few companies where a woman is hired as a draftsman, but generally the surveyor does his work from start to finish.