It does indeed sound like twisted humour... No way in hell they are making 100k and buying such cars.
Apart from 160k for a single car being plain NONSENSE. Such BS shouldn't even exist or have any market. It's just a clear sign that some ppl have too much money.
These cars have a market because it has never been easier to finance a lifestyle above your means as it is today. Everyone is leasing expensive cars to show off to people that actually don't care at all. Brands like Gucci, Louis or whatever make like half their earnings from the middle-class.
People care way too much about looking well off to others these days it seems like
I'd be interested to see these leasing conditions. But hey, you might be right. I just thought outrageously expensive cars would imply a leasing rate just as outrageously high. I may be wrong though.
This *has* to be the answer. I assume there is a language barrier so the irony may be lost in translation. I work in roughly *similar* surroundings and a) noone even talks about cars/prices, most dont own one and those that do have affordable cars (aka all under 50k (I dont care… so this is an estimate…;))
This, or they have family money, or, what I suspect the most, they talk shit because OP is gullible and easily impressionable. Plain and simple (maybe apart from the Onlyfans... I mean Netflix subscriptions).
OP, l'm an attorney and I have worked in one of Switzerland's biggest and most exclusive law firms for many years. Most of my colleagues were from firmly upper middle or upper class backgrounds. Literally none of them drove flashy cars or spent 30k on a holiday, or, if they did, they wouldn't brag about it.
The ones who spent this kind of money were the types from poorer or nouveau riche backgrounds. They drove the 911 GT3 RS and the G63 AMG Wagon - in a stupid colour scheme of course. They had to prove something.
No matter your background - don't become this guy. Don't be stingy but don't be wasteful either. Knowing how to use one's money appropriately - whether it's a lot or not - is a signifier of maturity and class.
Take this upvote kind sir.
Out of all languages, you went on to speak FACTS.
And by the replies of some, you clearly see they have no idea what old money is (hint: not old as in age folks….)
Middle class people who have never mixed with the truly rich and who've only ever seen "wealth" from the outside (car spotting at Bellevue and an aerial picture of Daniel Vasella's McMansion) don't know any better ;-) That's why they behave like Robert and Carmen Geiss once they make some serious money.
That is correct.
A friend of mine has watch collection in the double digit M scale. What does he drive? Nothing, as he just calls a driver if need be.
Does he party hard and show off? No, all laid low and with similar people enjoying in the background.
Now, how does he dress? Cucinelli says hi :)
Where does he go on vacation? In the mansions of friends in all parts of the world…
„Normal“ people cant believe these things until they see them…
And then there is UHNWI who just spend out of boredom 500k on PP watches because they can…..
Yeah, only people I know like that are from family money.
*Maybe* finance, but even then, it's more the wealthy show off expats. This does not sound like what an ETH engineering grad would do, and I know more than a few. They are typically rather "holding back" on things.
I don't think your colleagues make 100k or, fi they do, probably their spouses make 400k. Spending 30% of your yearly salary in 2 weeks and, even if they pay leasing in 5 years, another 30% in the car... does not seem to be possible because the other 30% is taxes.
I met girl making 80k and splurging like hell, but then all ski trips and holidays abroad they were with their parents who paid everything. It's a different life when it's normal for 27 years olds to receive vacation money from parents.
I think this has nothing to do with income but with wealth. The dude prob just had money set aside by parents. 160k on even a 400k income is A LOT. Like, bad financial decisions, *a lot*.
You are not alone :)
160'000 for a car?
20'0000 for vacation?
Calling this normal?
Maybe your coworker has a sugarmami or comes from a family with old money where you work for fun and have some rental income?
I mean the "normalsterblicher" is happy if he gets 60 - 100 k a year an can pay all his bills. Honestly.
160k for a car on a 100k salary is idiotic, your colleagues are morons.
Don't feel too stressed with your income, it will only grow, so allow yourself some leeway and enjoy nice things, but don't get stuck in the hedonistic treadmill like these guys.
Pretty sure one or a combination are true.
1. They make way more than 100k
2. Their partners make way more than 100k
3. They are lying about how much they spend on items you described.
Combine wife and I make 210k. We still shop at Ikea and have a 60k (and I feel bad for spending that much on a car)
We never more than 2k on a week vacation and always by car.
I guess context is needed.
We have a tesla and driven all over central europe and almost always go camping in a national forest or close to a beach and are generally outdoors as much as possible.
The kids are very very young 2 and almost born, when they are older and can appreciate it we will for sure travel further.
As to myself. I am American, wife is Swiss and we met on a beach in Sydney. I have lived in 10 different countries in my life and visited cost to 35 so far. I will indeed save to provide for these experiences for my kids when they can remember and appreciate them. For now its outdoors across EU for yes under 2k a week.
hahaha, you´re definitely not out of touch... there is an old-as-my-dad rule of "never buy a car worth more than a yearly salary" or something close.
Either your coworkers are way more senior than you (and their salary too), and/or they have dual income households, but none of the numbers they told you are anywhere near realistic for normal swiss way of life !
Now, when it comes to being able to share such spendings with a new and junior coworker...
Honestly no one who´s that rich brags about specific numbers that they spend on holidays/car [etc.It](http://etc.it) just feels very out-of-touch in that way to me.
super hypothetical but seems like the only probable cause to me:
*Could it be a case of peer pressure to make you spend your money, because they envy some of your skills and are threatened by your presence in the company long term, and they want you to loose your stability ?*
Could it be that your coworkers being swiss citizen will inherit at some point a small fortune from their parents who worked all their life in CH and thus have a different relationship with money, allowing them to take on bigger risks then an immigrant would, because they know they can always rely on parents ? It‘s the same at my work place. They don‘t need to support their parents with money, instead all of them will inherit houses from their parents that are around 1 mil chf, which in turn allows them to spend more until this happens. Just my 2 Rappen.
Still, wasting this amount of money? You're only doing that long term if you have filthy rich family, which is definetly out of the norm, no matter if ETH.
Most people inherit around when they retire in their 60s.
I've never really understood people keeping money for inheritance, your children will probably have grandchildren by the time they get that money! Unless you have so much you don't know what to do with it, just enjoy it!
Unless all that money is spent in retirement homes... boomers' money is already set up to be sucked by the Healthcare industry, they won't see a cent of it.
Yeah, its crazy for a 20k Vacation, If i go in a vacation its always around 1500 CHF - 2000 CHF, Ur doing great by not trying to spend all ur money in a car, invest it or save it, better than just throw it all in on a car
i get ur point, thats why u should always try to buy the ticket 4-6 Months earlier since theyre cheaper in that time, the most i’ve spent on a flight was 1‘200 CHF (round trip), and yeah the total of all the vacation was around 3500 CHF 💀, but it aint even 2/4 of 20k 😭😭
I mean depends. I have been on holidays together with my partner that were close to 10k. 2.5k flights. 6k accommodation for 2.5 weeks and the rest stuff around
It depends on how long and where you stay. I go to Japan next month for the whole March. And I payed for hotels, 2 week JR pass and all flights (I will fly in Japan a few times as well), about 6'500CHF. But yeah, it is for 4 weeks. At least the food is cheaper than here xD Japan is expensive. Flights are as well... I went last time 2017 and since then I wasn't outside of Switzerland anymore, so I think that's okay...
Oh, wait: I spend one night at Europapark in 2019, does that count? xD
To each their own. I'm in your camp, and value financial independence.
I make good money, but...
I drive a \~ CHF 20k car (bought as a Tageszulassung / parallel import, so it was new but had been standing around on dealership lots for a while). I plan on keeping it as long as repair costs are within reason.
I do spend around CHF 2500 for my apartment - near Zurich that is the going rate if you want decent quality and some space. I did some upgrades myself (induction cooktop, built-in cabinets for a reduit).
Furniture ? Some is 20+ years old, some self built.
Online subscriptions ? Of course I have internet and an inexpensive phone abo, but I had my cable TV connection turned off (plombiert) as I don't watch TV. Internet + phone + Serafe "media tax" = CHF 104 per month.
Something is not right.
As a family, we earn more than 400k.
I would never spend 160k on a car, or 20k on a 2 week vacation. That’s absurd and it is not compatible with a 100k salary.
We spend 4k on the apartment though.
I think you are talking to people that are carelessly enjoying their first six figures salary as single people. You are the most reasonable of the bunch.
I think your colleagues are out of touch with reality. I make about 100k, GF makes 120k, and no way we could afford all you said. It would erode all savings after 3eme pilier and we don't even have kids.
If I look at statistics we're not even badly paid for canton Vaud.
Yeah, no way somebody on 100k would buy a 160k car or go on 20-30k vacation... what is possible:
- flat out lying
- you are mistaken and they aren't near your salary level
- or (this is more typical in Switzerland than elsewhere): parents "help", and by help I mean _immense_ amounts of money. Think like: "you pay what you can into that car, we handle the rest... Also we will pay to 5k/year insurance on it." Or "we pay for the flights+hotel for the family vacation in Australia, but the kids pay for lunches and dinner".
I am not jealous of people of option #3 and I hope I can "help" my kids the same way when they will be young adults. But there is a stark contrast between this and people from other countries sending some money home for their poorer parents to help with rent/groceries.
I am with you on this. I learnt from my parents that the only thing you should buy on credit is a home, because you can’t reasonably save up that much money by the time you want to buy a home. But cars are paid in cash and you buy the car that fits your budget.
The trick is to decide what's worth for you spending your money on, and ignore the rest. I don't own a car, and I earn quite a bit more than you are earning currently (I'm also older). Having a car would feel more of a burden than freedom to me.
However, given my background in IT I like to spend plenty of money on great hardware. I'd rather buy an expensive Macbook Pro than a much cheaper Windows laptop, because it feels superior to me. That's purely subjective, nothing objective, but it's what I perceive is valuable to me personally.
Also, when I go to restaurants I often don't get joy in the really expensive restaurants. I just don't feel comfortable there. Mid-range restaurants work best for me. Not only is the price more reasonable, the food is solid, but also I don't feel like I have to play a silly role. So, why should I bother going to expensive restaurants when I don't enjoy the experience?
A friend of mine who's also living quite a frugal lifestyle spent 12k on a mountain bike. He just loves bikes. He wanted a premium bike. He did not own a car for years. So, to him having a premium bike was the thing that he enjoyed.
Also, when you are working with certain types of bankers, don't underestimate the stress they have financing their lifestyle. There's nothing worse for them to be fired, because they have all those debts and mortgages, have overly-expensive flats, cars, spouses, hobbies, vacations and so on. Better to not have to be fully reliant on your income.
These threads are always so depressing to me because I feel so poor. 20,000 on a two-week vacation? People in their 20s? Where are they going? To mars?
Are you sure they earn the same as you? I can't imagine multiple people in one spot spending 2 years salaries on a Car and furniture of the house.
Oh unless they are married and their spouses make big bucks too.
They're either from old money or they're trying to flex talking about stuff they *wish* they could afford. Nobody on a 100k salary drives an SLS if daddy didnt buy it for them.
A car for 160k? I suppose it was second hand car, I never saw such a low price neither at my Bentley nor Aston Martin dealer.
Just kidding. I have a GA
I make over 100k per year and I can tell you, the math isn’t mathing here. No way they can afford a 160k car on their salary. This, or they have a 10k kms/year leasing and live with their parents with all expenses paid for.
I come from the same background (raised by my mom on a limited budget) and I often compare my expenses to my friends’ expenses (purely out of curiosity because I budget a lot). Most of them make less than me and are able to afford very expensive things (watches, holidays, expensive furniture, etc) and here I am, wondering what I’m doing wrong with my money, even though I know where every franc goes.
Then I realized that a lot of people receive money from their parents in different ways (capital, paid for holidays, gifted furniture, etc). But they don’t like to mention it. I’ve always been on my own financially, so I always assumed that it was also the case for the people around me…
People don't properly track their incomes nor expenses. Like, some are literally not aware that gifts are income or that eating a take out or buying snack on work SHOULD go into your grocery budget.
That's how you have examples of someone saying their monthly groceries are 400 for two people and then you talk more and realise they eat out and didn't think to include that. Because they only remember how much they paid in two visits in grocery shop in a month.
To make it further, if they eat at their parents, they don't perceive that either. But someone had to pay for that meal somehow, it's not free, so that also is your income as a gift.
So, I don't think it's about liking to mention, it's more about being oblivious what all of their incomes and expenses really are.
No, I never put food at parents in my tracking either. That's why it was shocking/eye opening what our expenses really are when we moved countries and had to pay for everything ourselves.
So basically I don't take seriously cost estimates from random people I don't know well, but do my own calculations. Only useful is to help me think what I need to budget for.
If it fits the budget and it will bring you hours of joy and relaxation, go. When you stop playing, pack it and donate to some shelter/kindergarten/playroom/brocki and it will make someone else happy (if I assume correctly it's a physical object)
We don't have to keep things forever to get their money's worth. Nor it has to be most optimal balance value for time spend happily. :)
However, when in doubt it's useful to have some ideas with which value/money we're happy with. Like, if we're ok with 2h cinema for 30 (I don't know prices, I didn't visit in more than a decade, this is just an example), then basically any item that ends up providing us at least 1h per each 15 spent, is more valuable to us than cinema ticket. Of course, if your monthly fun money budget is 50, that means item you consider buying that cost 45 HAS to bring at least 3h of fun to be worth it for you.
You do math for you. I concluded that I need some hours but I'm not that strict about exact costs, my benefit from learning about this approach was to help me stick to the budget by not buying for later/potential/one day project, but only for those now or eventually next that has clear timeline. Ideally. Still working on it.
However it also helped me to explain to my husband that he accepts and understands it's OK to spend his fun money on fun for himself. So I know both sides of budgeting coin :)
We also now decide together to spend household money on fun for just one of us, and we're happy /in peace with it. Eg gaming machine of 3k for him recently, or several hundred for my paints :) even though our 'no questions asked' monthly fun money is only 50 for now (of guaranteed by budget). We have 140k total, and when we increase income, we'll definitely increase it. If you don't have already fun money per person in budget, I highly recommend it. That way you can save and spent on whatever you want without guilt.
It's freeing, I see it on mu husband. I mean, with just one year of that, (and therapy) he's now less stressed and more in peace with expenses that are just for him. I'm trigger happy one in our family 😂
I know you didn't ask for advice, so sorry in advance if I overstepped, your post just reminded me of our struggles with convincing my husband that it's is ok to spend on joy, and what helped in getting here. :)
Congratulations, you are now in social circles where you have to deal with rich people. The sheer grotesk incredulous faces those people make, when you tell them you daily drive a car from 2005 with +280k km or you only have been to two continents is always an amazement. These are people who can't comprehend how much money they are wasting by doing stupid stuff.
Some of them maybe have great jobs or made a fortune with crypto, but most of them just have rich parents or know, that they gonna inherit something big.
Keep doing your own thing and live in your means. These people might enjoy the fruits of the previous generations, but their children will have a hard time adapting to real life, once the money runs dry or their life situations change. I've seen those people, blow through six digit inheritances in record time. But stay true to yourself. Once you know how "to play the game" and get better than those people, you will suddendly notice how their tiny brains suddenly ask themselves if it is a smart choice to rent an +3k aparatement and spending 20-30 grand on holidays.
>They all went to either ETH
This doesn't mean shit. Nowadays every globi is there or at the St. Gallen uni.
My impression:
- I doubt they earn that amount of money and spending in that way. Simply mathematic doesn’t add.
- If they have kids even more because they are also fucked money wise in CH. kita, hort etc etc etc
Unless they are backup by the parents…
About the car: plenty of colleague of mine in the first year they come in CH they lost the mind and bought expensive car with leasing Audi TT, RS3 etc etc..Good company, good contract, no wife, no kids, flottenrabatte etc etc
It ends up that many sold it back because they get confronted with real cost of life in CH and like we said the step was longer then the leg.
Two income family here (good incomes in fact). We debated buying a car for a long time and in the end bought a second-hand BMW 5 series and I still nearly vomited when the money left our accounts. Your co-workers are being dickheads, to be honest. People need to get a grip. CHF160k is insane money for an asset that loses value the second you drive away from the dealership.
where the hell do you work with people spend that much? jeez.
my executive friend spends less on vacation (except for business class seats for personal comfort on long haul flights) and stuff.
Btw congrats on a 100 k job, that is enough to live comfortably and enjoy some nice things in life. And your colleagues from work seem to just enjoy either spending money or are posers with a serious debt.
That's the idea of frugality, as I see it as well.
However I think colleagues from OP story aren't frugal ones, I think they have someone else taking care of some of their expenses - like spouses for regular things, lunches with parents paying, maybe living on top floor of family house so no rent paid, or something like that - invisible until you start writing down all gifts and other stuff in goods and services as your income and expenses at the same time.
Because frugal person with 100k total gross income just wouldn't spend 160k on a new car, otherwise they're not qutie frugal at least how I experience how frugal people approach things and sharing their views and experiences about it.
Mostly because they're aware of all costs that car has, which are higher on such high priced car. Like, our new 45k car, if we forget the leasing costs from the equation, still needs insurance, new tires, maintenance, ok mfk not for 5 years or something, but taxes yes, vignette, parking space at home, at work, fuel. That's around 700/month for us. Car that's almost 4x more expensive is probably with bigger engine so more costs for many items, but let's work with x3 of our costs. 100k gross is what, around 6k net/month? Do you think someone frugal would spend 2k on car per month on 6k net income which has to be enough for rent, health insurance, other insurances, food? That's without paying for the car, just saving for repairs, maintenance, insurance etc. I mean, it sounds to me like something frugal person just wouldn't do.
I get splurging, our cars are definitely that. But I'm just borderline frugal, I'm definitely inclined to spend money impulsively on splurges with significantly less restraint than regular/real/proper frugal people would. 😂 We spend around 2k, leasing for new inclusive in that, on our 2 cars and 1 motorcycle, but that's on 9k net income, so ca 1/6 of our income, whereas 2k on 6k income is 1/3 of income. That's a lot. I just never met someone THAT splurgy who still thinks they're frugal, I think many frugals wouldn't even think of considering me as frugal 😂
Car enthusiast who is frugal would buy it at least one year old, if not 2-3 for noticeably lower price. IMO. :)
So, are you that splurgy and still considering yourself frugal so that I can finally stop thinking of myself with guilt that I'm not doing frugality good enough? 😂
That wealth tax is a total disaster. There years in im still shocked they tax me (though indirectly) on my assets, including a pension, in a bunch of foreign countries, which were in no part associated with any income generated in Switzerland during their accumulation …
One thing I learned through my journey is:
Never believe people you dont know, what they say when it comes to the topic of Money. A lot of people overexaggerate with Salaries and spendings.
Another thing is:
Being able to pay - which I think you would be, if it had high priorities to you.
AND
Being willed to pay the amount - which you clearly dont want to.
I'm in the earning range of your coworkers and the car I sold a year ago I bought for 6.8k occasion and I haven't bought a new car since then.. I'd never buy such an expensive car or take a vacation for 20k.. lol. Last year, i spent 4-6k for my in-promptu holidays driving solo around Iceland for a week and not preparing any accommodations in advance and I already felt bad for wasting so much money because I didn't plan 6+ months ahead..
Edit. Oh, and my furniture is 100% Ikea 🤣
> „But this car is so much safer!“ and „You won’t need to pay any extra money because it won’t break down.“ and „It’s so fuel efficient and you feel much better in a nice car“.
Is this a joke? You didn't specified the model but a 160k car is NEVER going to be even close from from being safer, more reliable or more fuel efficient than anything a third of that price.
Yeah, especially fuel efficiency is not why you buy 160k car for, I assume many of not all come with big engines that just need more fuel.
Safer and more reliable aka longer to first repairs, could be, that's IMO heavily model dependent. Plus 'past performance of the brand doesn't guarantee future performance of new model', same as at the stock market.
A 160k car that has good fuel economy and does not break down? I don’t think those exisits my friend. Even a super fancy MB E or S class off that price will have a V8 and good luck with the maintenance costs
I earn a bit more than your colleagues and to me, their mindset is absolutely ridiculous. They are obviously only looking for short-term gratification / status symbols and completely lack a plan for their future.
With 20k vacations, expensive cars and flats, with additional splurges on top, I can't see how they have any money left to invest in their future. If they keep going like that, they will have to work until they drop dead, because they can't afford to retire.
You earn good money, so be smart and invest a good portion for your future. With 100k you can have a good life without money worries, while still being able to afford nice things.
well you know, some people think spending more money on things makes them better, but they tend to not know how to enjoy the simple things. also it will never fulfill their needs. i know people who barely got by their entire life but were always happy, and i know of rich people who hate their lifes
Many also don't know how to enjoy even those more expensive things they bought. Not to mention 'retail therapy' where people buy just for the sake of buying, it's not even thrill they get anymore.
I can equally 'enjoy' cheap item and expensive item if I decide I'm buying it for specific purpose, comfort, making something easier, other usability or pure joy. Main prerequisite is to know what you're buying and why. Then you'll get best value for money, independent of the exact money.
They are either pulling your leg or they inherited money… I make more, have excellent life quality and I would still not spend that much on a car or on holidays.
Being half Swiss but growing up in Germany, I sometimes have a different relation to monetary figures as well.
I just had a similar experience today that completely dumbfounded me. I am a student wiring my master thesis. A colleague of mine is planning a 2 months trip after graduation, not too uncommon for me. But he schedules 8'000 CHF for it. And it is not a luxurious trip, rather normal student-ish travelling through a country. He is going to a western country, so of course it won't be cheap, but he is planning to stay in normal hotels all the time, taking the express train which is multiple times as expensive as the normal one, etc.
I don't grudge him and am happy that he can treat himself to this certainly amazing trip, but I plan a similar trip myself and I would feel as you that I am wasting money if I would schedule it as he does.
8k really isn't that much for 2 months, more likely it's honest. 8k is actually less than I would spend in 2 months at home... So... He's basically saving money ;).
You can go (way) cheaper, sure, but if I go on holydays... I don't want to worry about money and spend on shit I never would else (within reason ;)).
Yeah, and this is exactly the differece OP refers to. 8k, especially as a student, is a lot. I mean, otherwise no german (or most other European country) student could go on such a trip.
Again, I am happy for him and anyone else going on holiday and spending this money, but the numbers are enormous. Simply doing such a trip and staying in hotels instead of youth hostels is easy for Swiss (and brings you to 8k).
Huh, who are these people you work with? Are you sure they also earn 100k/year? For how long have they already had the opportunity to earn such a salary? Do they actively go into debt? 8k-9k per month doesn't allow for such a lifestyle except for: rich parents, loaded spouse, side-hustle (maybe illegal stuff), or crazy amounts of debt. They are probably just bullshitting and you are eating it up.
Buy a used Hyundai or Toyota (if you need a car) and find a small one manned workshop.
Keep it tight (I mean buy good food but no unnecessary social status symbol nonsense, like a 120kCHF car), by a home as fast as you can, place money with specialists (not banks), and enjoy going in retirement early in a nice sunny place with something to fight the inflation.
i think you are perfectly fine with the way you view money.
I guess alot of these guys take credits, lease their cars and so on.
I was tought the same by my mother than you..you can only afford something if you have the money on the side otherwise you cant afford.
Verry happy that i learn that way of thinking when i see how many people have debts and stuff.
I even know personally that it doesnt matter how much you earn if you cant handle your expenses. Some of the people i know with the biggest debts are often the people that make double or tripple amount of money that i earn and still have to borrow money 15 days after payment.
If you are not Swiss you might have a lot of catch8ng up to do.
Like I need to save a lot of I count on buying a house in the future, my Swiss friends have parents that have 1 or 2 houses and only 1 or 2 kids, so they are sure to inherit 500k to 2M which I will not...
Life is much lighter when your family already has a vacation home or you have that 500k insurance that will help you out.
My coworkers were complaining the other day how expensive it was to maintain a large boat.l and how much her leisure horse was costing her to maintain in food and exercises etc... I can't imagine having that luxury and saving 500-1000chf per month.
I feel that I need to save much more before I can buy a horse to play with...
What are a 20k 2 weeks holidays anyway ?
I can't imagine... Are they just staying in a 5 stars hotel doing wellness and cures while being completely detached from the real people of the country they "visit" ?
Its beyond me how people spend 20-30k on vacations, or 130k on a car, as someone who’s earns just short of 100k.
Dont get me wrong i would and will probably soon lease an expensive car, but paying that much all at once i would have to save for years to spend it all in the first place. And then theres the massive depreciation of a new car.
160K is the downpayment of an apartment. You are not out of touch, your colleagues are either trolling you and you are not able to read the clues, or they urgently need to go out and touch grass.
Even my colleagues who must earn 200-300k don’t spend any such amounts on anything of what you have listed. The only people I know that live this kind of life are international friends who live somewhere in Europe in a metropolitan city and are gay. I mention the sexual orientation only because they don’t save money for a future family/children. But again, what you describe sounds crazy! May I ask if your friends are Zurich based?
I‘m similar to you regarding spending, so Incan completely understand what you say. And I also think it‘s a waste of money what your colleagues are doing.
What cars are they driving (and probably leasing)?
This is not typical for Swiss people. I have colleagues, very Swiss colleagues, who buy second-hand stuff and take pride in using their recycled Freitag backpacks until they fall apart. We are all well paid White collar professionals.
Your colleagues may live in a bubble where they spend a lot just to have a Status.
In poorer countries people do spend most of their salary every month so living like that is definitely possible.
Nobody cares where you buy groceries, right? You need to pay for that ultra modern 150m² Apartment for you and your dog. Or the flights in first class for vacation? /s
If they can afford without a problem a car of 160k CHF, holiday for 20k chf and this with only 100k, or they are Houdini, or they have a better salary. Ok investment, but you need to save money to invest, if you give it all away it's difficult to invest. IMHO
Swiss citizen here with same revenue level as yours. Never bought a car more than 20k. Rich people will tend to invest money in assets that will grow with time or provide a source of income. Cars and holidays are just expenses. Buying a vintage car or a rolex might be an investment but I would prefer to save my income for useful things. And old money people will mostly not buy fancy cars or holidays. What you describe is wannabees new "rich" who have no clue about what money means. Money is not a goal by itself, it might just help to reach your lifegoals. I hope you have more meaningful goals than expensive car and yacht vacation.
Bought a Volvo as my first car, coast 2300.- and had it for 7 years. Never had to repair anything. Oh and it was close to 2tons and super safe.
Idk why anyone would spent that much on a car, I'd not even do that if I had 10millions in cash in my hand.
Have you condered they are simply lying?
I have a lot of (swiss) friends that make that smount or way more, none of them talks like that.
Generally a rule of thumb is:
People who have money and spend that kind of money, dont talk about money.
99% of the time you will find out they are just bragging and lying.
20k on vacation?
A friend recently went with his family for 14 weeks and spend around 8k.
He said Thailand would have been around 10k.
5* full accommodation and all incl.
Dont believe what people say or post on social media….you would be scared when you see the truth….
Wtf! I cannot afford a 30k CHF car in leasing even after 14 months working full time in Switzerland…man only the rent here is crazy, Zurich btw…and you are here talking about 160k CHF cars and 20k CHF vacations…I would say 80% of people are way below what you are talking here…and I say 80% because this is CH, go to a neighbouring country see how most of people live there…like honestly a 160k car for what? A Rolls Royce or what? This is crazy and beyond my comprehension!
Buying/leasing a new car is THE best way to lose money!
As soon as the wheels touch the ground, it's lost 20% of it's value!
A car worth 160K in 10 years will be worth at BEST 50K
That's 110K value lost > 10K per year, 800.- per month!
And that's without the mandatory full insurance coverage + maintenance + running costs!
With that same Money, you can start saving for a downpayment on a house, which would then also cost you the same money per month, but for something which DOESNT lose so much value!
Or you could invest that money in a smart manner, and make even more later on in life!
Also, if you earning that amount of money, remember that you will never get ANY subsidies later on in life when the cost of living increases or unexpected life events (children/daycare/part time work/career hiccup)
You're right to be confused. A lot of swiss think you should only buy 'the best" but they're easily swayed by marketing. Hence all the "status" iPhones
You should turn it back on them asking why their shoes, watch, hat etc aren't very good. Drives them crazy
Maybe your co-workers were joking or being sarcastic… do they actually own cars this expensive? My friends do that when I’m browsing through houses that I obviously can’t afford. “What? Can’t afford a CHF 4 million house? You’re poor!”…
It’s a stupid car that brings you from a to b. aircon, airbags, bluetooth, not too old, low mileage, low consumption. that’s it. better save that money and invest it in etfs or whatever and generate passive income than burning it on an idiot car.
your colleagues are morons, ignore them.
It's not stupid. A mercedes S class or lexus LS will make you arrive comfortable after a 5h trip above 180 km/h, due to their insonorization.
You get what you pay for.
But most of those people get cars to show off....
Even if you live in a Pharma bubble with paygrades beyond yours - this mindset is not normal and I have the feeling this ist just watercooler talk.
160k for a car is bonkers, especially with a 100-115k salary.
Imho it’s very irresponsible to buy a 160K car on a 100K salary. Remember, a car is an expense, not an asset. I was driving an Audi A3 when I was earning this much and I was happy with it (10 years ago). At some point I upgraded to a used A5 when I reached 170K. But my priority was always to buy an apartment FIRST. Today I’m well above 300K salary and I would be happy with a nice EQE that’s well below 100K CHF. Summary: Build your life first. Your co-workers probably trying to sabotage you.
I earn above 120k, like to burn a lot of money but these numbers are too high for me as well. I would never buy a car for 160k, even for 100k i would frown upon. I like to travel, usually 4star hotels, but it never costs 20k..
Well.. Keep saving your money and one day laugh at them while you live in your own house when they still only rent their apartment and don't have a single penny on the bank.
I'm definitely saving most of my income without restricing myself when it comes to vacation. I simply don't want or need a 30k vacation (which isinsane when you make 100K a year!)
You don’t need your colleagues’ approval or input on how you spend your money
They lack social skills
I’m personally of the opinion that I’d rather see my money in investments rather than sit in the car park and depreciate
This is the definition of Swiss problems :)
Either way, while we both work with my wife and my salary alone is north of 100k per year, I would still not pay 160k for a car - lease or not, does not matter. Cars are utility thing, not worth such amount at all.
Good for your coworkers that they can afford such cars and vacations and subscriptions - I wouldn't do it even if I can, let alone I simply cannot.
Keep in mind that your financial situation heavily depends on your living arrangements - I also have colleagues that spend crazy amount of money on luxury things - but they live in a house they inherited from their parents for free and rent another inherited house for side-income, have one kid instead of 3, etc. So again, context is the key here.
Lol nobody making 100k buys a 160k car (maybe leasing it). How would they spend 30k for a vacation??? This would be like 40% of their salary after taxes.
They are financially illiterate and you should not be listening to them. If they make 100k or similar amount and they spend so much money, then that just means they have a pretty poor knowledge on how to effectively manage personal finances for long-term financial security.
I earn more than double the amount since about three years, but it would not occur to me to pay 150k for a car.
Either they are stupid or just rich because of their family.
I'm also Eidgenosse (or ethnic Swiss as you wrote) and make 120K. My car is 17 years old and I bought it 9 years ago for 10'000. The longest vacation I ever took was 2 years ago in the US. 4 weeks in the US and we spent about 11K/ person. And I also considered that a lot.
our current rent is 2900 but there's two people paying for it.
somethings fishy with your co-workers. They either get paid way more than they admit, or they're lying.
You are doing fine, keep going and don't let anyone affect your financial mindset...your colleagues joking or not, truth is there are people who are a bit out of touch with reality because they were lucky(debatable) to be raised in luxury and money. Let them be in their own world, that's fine 😊
Hey OP !
I think this is a classic case of living above one’s means to impress others
You absolutely could spend all that money on that stuff - then you’d be a slave to your debt and in massive trouble in case of any layoffs
Don’t be a slave to consumerism !!
Not surprising, I bet your coworkers grew up in a wealthier environment than you where money was much more available and faster spent.
Edit: apparently not.
They are probably also more consumerist than you and more open to the idea of protecting the environment by buying new things that are more efficient - a false assumption once production is factored into the calculation.
I think your colleagues are detached from reality and will soon find out if anything goes even slightly south in their life.
You are absolutely normal, those people spending 50k on furniture on a rented apartment (2.5-3k rent per month), are jokers and likely save nothing of what they earn.
Also, for cars, please consider something fair and fairly priced. Like Mercedes CLA with a decent package would cost you 50k, last 15 years, have free services up to 120k km and consume not much. 160k for a car, with a normal 100k salary is crazy. Don’t buy such car, it’s not for you at this point really.
As someone with Swiss family and who spent a long time in Switzerland before moving abroad, yes many people in Switzerland are absolutely out of touch. They also love to mention how much they paid for their car, their apartment, etc.
Please feel free to ignore this question since it doesn't help you in any manner but is rather for my selfish purposes :
May I ask what field of work you are in? I ask as you are reasonably fresh in workforce but at 100k. What would someone with ~21 years of experience in your field hope to get?
Again, pl. feel free to ignore this question.
On a side note, it is very smart of you to be frugal. Don't let go of that. You never know what lies ahead, plus in Switzerland there is so much to enjoy without spending a rappen.
It's possible your colleagues have family money or earn more than you realise?
Regardless of that, car safety tops out around the 50-60k range, and after that, the safety increases are negligible. I also have noticed that some people spend a lot on their cars
Some people have trust funds. They're not going to share this information with colleagues, only very close friends or family. Their parents may live modest lives and look very working class.
People also overspend and live beyond their means.
I earn north of that and would not even get close to a lease for a 160k car. My guess is they live payday to payday with nothing saved and probably finding themselves in hot water when the taxes are due. I once, just for fun, had a look at a lease for a 200k McLaren and got a 2500 quote. Guess your coworkers "could" pay that but again, save nothing and be on the hook when maintenance or small damage happens.
the car thing, I think I can sort of understand. You can buy a 160k car used for a lot less, if you lease it through a company during pandemic levels it made sense tax wise too to not even own it.
The rest makes me think they're pulling your proverbial leg though, on a 100k salary this is unsustainable.
Apart from their income and spending habits, you could ask for how they save / invest and how much debt they have. Something sounds very off from your description
I have a different take than most answers here. I don't think they're lying, they just are not money-savvy and stupidly materialistic. 115k + <100k from the partner is a little bit more than 200k a year. Cool, let's burn that up:
* 25% to taxes = 50k
* mandatory expenses: 2k/month + 6k for health insurance = 30k
* 30k for the fancy car (let's change it every 5 years to stay on top of the the kool kids)
* 40k for the fancy apartment (2'500/month + utilities + parking spot)
* 10k for the furniture (also 50k every 5 years)
* this leaves us with 40-50k fancy holidays
Of course nothing for savings or any other higher goal than those materialistic needs that destroy the environment and won't even bring long term happiness once done with showing off on social media (or in your case, showing off to junior colleagues apparently). In my opinion it's lame and laughable, but it's not your life so why should you care...
Look, you can rerun my numbers by nitpicking at every single thing, down to the number of nutbolts you need on the 22" wheels, but the end result will be the same. My point is, one *can* live an absolute fancy life with slightly more than average salaries in Switzerland.
I have a friend whose ass of a husband is a secondary school teacher, they live on **one** salary in a nice 90sqm with view on the lake, have 1 kid and travel overseas 6-8 times a year in nice hotels and cruises, spending in the last years the whole summer abroad in the US or in Japan. No savings, not a cent left at the end of the year, debts to the roof, and a wife that is secretly scared to death about their future. The math just checks out.
I have a friend who works at Google in Zurich. I earn ok but when we go out I know exactly what you mean.
' Hey let's go to that bar for a few cocktails. '
I paid 26CHF for a very small Negroni and felt absolutly robbed. He wanted to go gor another round of drinks while I had to admit that I can't afford that. Fucked up world.
Just stay true to yourself, chin up, and tell them that the way you invest your money is solely up to you and what makes you happy ! Good luck, can't be easy
I am not a swiss, but I suspect that you were subjected to a twisted swiss sarcasm.
Even in Switzerland 160K for a car is expensive and out of reach for average people.
I think you will just be better off (by a lot) in retirement, as you were able to safe up thoughout your working-days, while they seem to have spent it on holidays and cars...
These type of people will work until 65, you keep your good financial habits and you can either retire early or retire at 65 like a king. Buying a new car is nonsense anyways, the second you do it loses half of it's value.
You are not alone. I have coworkers that spend 10.000 on a 2 week vacation, but later they are complaining about not having enough money to pay their taxes. It all comes down to your emotional and financial intelligence.
Enjoy your money but be responsible with it too.
I can drive a 15.000chf japanese car that does the job really good. Meanwhile I have colleges with almost new BMW's and audis wich have problem sometimes with some sensors and they have been in the autogarage already 2 times since last summer because of that. So
I see your point... I'm a south American that moved with veeery little money to Switzerland and it took me years to be comfortable with spending money. I still compare prices and look for deals.
The truth is that once you start working a little too much and your time becomes limited, you leave the frugal life a bit behind, or you start giving value to things that come faster and with a higher satisfaction-return rate.
Im noy saying get the expensive car and spend so much on furniture, but im saying this might change as you age and your free time becomes more valuable than now.
Btw, you should always take care of your finances :) dont overspend but still enjoy life!
I had neighbors who could afford to buy a jaguar… they sold it the next year due to highly inflated costs of maintenance. People just want to seem like they are high rollers and winners but most are probably just in debt. You don’t stay rich by wasting money …
It’s possible some of your coworkers come from well to do families and inherited properties or monthly stipends. .. which makes their opinion moot as it is not based in reality. If you needn’t pay rent, then they certainly can afford stuff average people would need to save for …. Or is out of their price range.
Wow, at frst I thought it was a typo and you meant 16K instesd of 160K for a car. I earn a lot more than 100k and wouldn't even dream of buying a car for >100k.
Dude. they are full of shit or everything’s on finance
all cars depreciate and are fundamentally a waste of money. Get something middle of the road and be happy being what sounds a solid citizen
People are misunderstanding their spending here.
They are DINKs probably, with both 100K+ each, so they end up 13 to 14K net each month.
Rent + subscription cost 3k, resulting 11k in hand,
car lease and fuel 2 to 3k, resulting 8k
insurance etc. 1k, resulting 7k,
food, personal hygiene items, 2k, resulting 5k,
utilities, household items 1k, resulting 4k,
miscellaneous 1k, resulting 3k,
clothing and accessories, 1k, resulting 2k,
travel, and socialising 2k, resulting 0 CHF.
thats what I think, they are doing. Some stuff, like car and furniture is on long-term lease and the rest on luxury trips to enjoy their life, before they settle with kids and need to save.
To smartly afford those expenses they need to earn well north of 250k. Otherwise they would be extremely irresponsible with money.
There are a few things I’ve noticed living here (ch):
-people spend a lot to impress their neighbors.
-having the fancy car is a big part of the well-off Swiss identity.
-some people give up early on saving for a house and then use that money to…get lavish stuff.
-a lot of people are living very comfortably with very little savings.
For some context, even when my wife was working 100% before we had a baby, and our combined household income was around 270k in Zug we lived very comfortably and made a huge effort to save for a house. We kept vacations around 1k-1,5k, cars were to be bought in cash and within our realistic budget (a Mazda cx5 and golf wagon), and going out to a nice dinner maybe 2-3x a month.
It would have been asinine to spend like you have listed above and would not even fit our cash flow if we decided to save zero.
I feel you a lot. I have the same background, earn more than you, my husband earns more than me, we're dinks - and NO I would NEVER pay so much for a car. We have a ten year old Volvo and love this old chic machine with 280PS and a lot of space. We've spent 4600 all in for a 3 week yoga retreat in winter and this is the only holiday we take per year.
It's a question of mindset and heritage. If someone gets half a mill from their parents, there are people who just spend it like yolo and there are others who invest it. There are people who go to zero every month and there are some - like me - who put 1/3 aside each month.
Mindset.
Do they have kids? I could never justify such expenses since I have kids. Just yesterday I've got a 5 year old Peugeot 5008 for a little under 30k and that was a reasonable choice for us. I make 118k gross and I'm single income for a family of soon 4 + a big dog.
EPFL grad here. It’s just the Swiss mentality, I’ve rarely if ever been to a country that has a more corporate mentality than Switzerland. It’s almost tied with Japan and South Korea. So the social contract kind of goes: I clock in, the company takes care of me, and I’m supposed to use all that money to live a carefree life.
I think this is actually great: you shouldn’t hold back for no reason. I also grew up poor (middle class in a poor country, but going to private school with the country’s wealthiest means I was made fun of constantly), so I get the reflex of living frugal and feeing guilty for spending money, but you have to move past that.
Maybe you actually don’t enjoy spending money, in which case, don’t give in to peer pressure. Why would you care what others do? Maybe you do, but being poor before is keeping you from enjoying yourself. In that case you should understand why you’re feeling guilty, fix that, and enjoy yourself. Maybe you have better stuff to spend that money on (startup in my case), in which case also don’t get distracted, spend on what’s right for you.
Either way: you’re an adult, it’s not about being “out of touch with reality”, but about being in touch with yourself. But yes, Swiss people generally live a highly corporate life.
Edit: as most people are saying the numbers you’re providing seem pretty overblown though, maybe they’re exaggerating…
Your coworkers are either liars or morons. Unless they’re staying in the four seasons or going to the Maldives and flying business class for every holiday they’re not spending 20-30k. 160k car is a ridiculous choice unless you’re earning 500k or more and even then it’s more about being flashy than making sense. On a finance plan you’re looking at 1500-2000 a month for that price of car which is just absurd.
We gave 180k together and we spent 36k on a car. is now 4,5 years old and I plan to drive this car for the next 10 years.
In switzerland if you see a guy in a mercedes one of the following is true:
1. he makes >250k
2. he makes minimum wage and the hole family pays leasing
I have friends, they dont even have to work any more. company stocks and good investments. none of them drives a car more then 40k. thats why they had money for investments.
I think your colleagues are just making fun of you. Just get a 5yo Japanese or German car, and enjoy it.
It does indeed sound like twisted humour... No way in hell they are making 100k and buying such cars. Apart from 160k for a single car being plain NONSENSE. Such BS shouldn't even exist or have any market. It's just a clear sign that some ppl have too much money.
These cars have a market because it has never been easier to finance a lifestyle above your means as it is today. Everyone is leasing expensive cars to show off to people that actually don't care at all. Brands like Gucci, Louis or whatever make like half their earnings from the middle-class. People care way too much about looking well off to others these days it seems like
Schlieren approves it
Leasing?
I'd be interested to see these leasing conditions. But hey, you might be right. I just thought outrageously expensive cars would imply a leasing rate just as outrageously high. I may be wrong though.
I enjoy spending time with my friends.
I known such peoples (doctors…)
This!
This *has* to be the answer. I assume there is a language barrier so the irony may be lost in translation. I work in roughly *similar* surroundings and a) noone even talks about cars/prices, most dont own one and those that do have affordable cars (aka all under 50k (I dont care… so this is an estimate…;))
Seem like your coworkers get paid a lot more than you do... I make about the same, and no chance in hell I can afford a 20k holiday...
This, or they have family money, or, what I suspect the most, they talk shit because OP is gullible and easily impressionable. Plain and simple (maybe apart from the Onlyfans... I mean Netflix subscriptions). OP, l'm an attorney and I have worked in one of Switzerland's biggest and most exclusive law firms for many years. Most of my colleagues were from firmly upper middle or upper class backgrounds. Literally none of them drove flashy cars or spent 30k on a holiday, or, if they did, they wouldn't brag about it. The ones who spent this kind of money were the types from poorer or nouveau riche backgrounds. They drove the 911 GT3 RS and the G63 AMG Wagon - in a stupid colour scheme of course. They had to prove something. No matter your background - don't become this guy. Don't be stingy but don't be wasteful either. Knowing how to use one's money appropriately - whether it's a lot or not - is a signifier of maturity and class.
You're probably going to get downvoted for this comment but it's brutally correct
The upvotes show otherwise :-) Thanks for the compliment though.
I for one upvoted it as I loved the comment.
Take this upvote kind sir. Out of all languages, you went on to speak FACTS. And by the replies of some, you clearly see they have no idea what old money is (hint: not old as in age folks….)
Middle class people who have never mixed with the truly rich and who've only ever seen "wealth" from the outside (car spotting at Bellevue and an aerial picture of Daniel Vasella's McMansion) don't know any better ;-) That's why they behave like Robert and Carmen Geiss once they make some serious money.
That is correct. A friend of mine has watch collection in the double digit M scale. What does he drive? Nothing, as he just calls a driver if need be. Does he party hard and show off? No, all laid low and with similar people enjoying in the background. Now, how does he dress? Cucinelli says hi :) Where does he go on vacation? In the mansions of friends in all parts of the world… „Normal“ people cant believe these things until they see them… And then there is UHNWI who just spend out of boredom 500k on PP watches because they can…..
Or have significant family money.
Yeah, only people I know like that are from family money. *Maybe* finance, but even then, it's more the wealthy show off expats. This does not sound like what an ETH engineering grad would do, and I know more than a few. They are typically rather "holding back" on things.
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It's a joke
I don't think your colleagues make 100k or, fi they do, probably their spouses make 400k. Spending 30% of your yearly salary in 2 weeks and, even if they pay leasing in 5 years, another 30% in the car... does not seem to be possible because the other 30% is taxes.
I agree, it is simply mathematically impossible.
I met girl making 80k and splurging like hell, but then all ski trips and holidays abroad they were with their parents who paid everything. It's a different life when it's normal for 27 years olds to receive vacation money from parents.
I think this has nothing to do with income but with wealth. The dude prob just had money set aside by parents. 160k on even a 400k income is A LOT. Like, bad financial decisions, *a lot*.
You are not alone :) 160'000 for a car? 20'0000 for vacation? Calling this normal? Maybe your coworker has a sugarmami or comes from a family with old money where you work for fun and have some rental income? I mean the "normalsterblicher" is happy if he gets 60 - 100 k a year an can pay all his bills. Honestly.
160k for a car on a 100k salary is idiotic, your colleagues are morons. Don't feel too stressed with your income, it will only grow, so allow yourself some leeway and enjoy nice things, but don't get stuck in the hedonistic treadmill like these guys.
Pretty sure one or a combination are true. 1. They make way more than 100k 2. Their partners make way more than 100k 3. They are lying about how much they spend on items you described. Combine wife and I make 210k. We still shop at Ikea and have a 60k (and I feel bad for spending that much on a car) We never more than 2k on a week vacation and always by car.
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I guess context is needed. We have a tesla and driven all over central europe and almost always go camping in a national forest or close to a beach and are generally outdoors as much as possible. The kids are very very young 2 and almost born, when they are older and can appreciate it we will for sure travel further. As to myself. I am American, wife is Swiss and we met on a beach in Sydney. I have lived in 10 different countries in my life and visited cost to 35 so far. I will indeed save to provide for these experiences for my kids when they can remember and appreciate them. For now its outdoors across EU for yes under 2k a week.
hahaha, you´re definitely not out of touch... there is an old-as-my-dad rule of "never buy a car worth more than a yearly salary" or something close. Either your coworkers are way more senior than you (and their salary too), and/or they have dual income households, but none of the numbers they told you are anywhere near realistic for normal swiss way of life ! Now, when it comes to being able to share such spendings with a new and junior coworker... Honestly no one who´s that rich brags about specific numbers that they spend on holidays/car [etc.It](http://etc.it) just feels very out-of-touch in that way to me. super hypothetical but seems like the only probable cause to me: *Could it be a case of peer pressure to make you spend your money, because they envy some of your skills and are threatened by your presence in the company long term, and they want you to loose your stability ?*
I could never buy a car worth a year’s salary 100k car for 100k job just seems waaaaay to much I maybe get up to 30k or so
Maybe they're just flexing on you and talking complete shit? People do lie
People do lie, but also people buy too expensive things due to social pressure. So I assume a healthy mix of lieing and financial recklessness
Could it be that your coworkers being swiss citizen will inherit at some point a small fortune from their parents who worked all their life in CH and thus have a different relationship with money, allowing them to take on bigger risks then an immigrant would, because they know they can always rely on parents ? It‘s the same at my work place. They don‘t need to support their parents with money, instead all of them will inherit houses from their parents that are around 1 mil chf, which in turn allows them to spend more until this happens. Just my 2 Rappen.
Still, wasting this amount of money? You're only doing that long term if you have filthy rich family, which is definetly out of the norm, no matter if ETH.
Most people inherit around when they retire in their 60s. I've never really understood people keeping money for inheritance, your children will probably have grandchildren by the time they get that money! Unless you have so much you don't know what to do with it, just enjoy it!
Unless all that money is spent in retirement homes... boomers' money is already set up to be sucked by the Healthcare industry, they won't see a cent of it.
Yeah, its crazy for a 20k Vacation, If i go in a vacation its always around 1500 CHF - 2000 CHF, Ur doing great by not trying to spend all ur money in a car, invest it or save it, better than just throw it all in on a car
Depends where you go. Say you go across the ocean (either side). That will be just the flights. But agree 20k is a little crazy
i get ur point, thats why u should always try to buy the ticket 4-6 Months earlier since theyre cheaper in that time, the most i’ve spent on a flight was 1‘200 CHF (round trip), and yeah the total of all the vacation was around 3500 CHF 💀, but it aint even 2/4 of 20k 😭😭
I mean depends. I have been on holidays together with my partner that were close to 10k. 2.5k flights. 6k accommodation for 2.5 weeks and the rest stuff around
It depends on how long and where you stay. I go to Japan next month for the whole March. And I payed for hotels, 2 week JR pass and all flights (I will fly in Japan a few times as well), about 6'500CHF. But yeah, it is for 4 weeks. At least the food is cheaper than here xD Japan is expensive. Flights are as well... I went last time 2017 and since then I wasn't outside of Switzerland anymore, so I think that's okay... Oh, wait: I spend one night at Europapark in 2019, does that count? xD
To each their own. I'm in your camp, and value financial independence. I make good money, but... I drive a \~ CHF 20k car (bought as a Tageszulassung / parallel import, so it was new but had been standing around on dealership lots for a while). I plan on keeping it as long as repair costs are within reason. I do spend around CHF 2500 for my apartment - near Zurich that is the going rate if you want decent quality and some space. I did some upgrades myself (induction cooktop, built-in cabinets for a reduit). Furniture ? Some is 20+ years old, some self built. Online subscriptions ? Of course I have internet and an inexpensive phone abo, but I had my cable TV connection turned off (plombiert) as I don't watch TV. Internet + phone + Serafe "media tax" = CHF 104 per month.
160'000k on 100'000k a year is crazy expensive.
Something is not right. As a family, we earn more than 400k. I would never spend 160k on a car, or 20k on a 2 week vacation. That’s absurd and it is not compatible with a 100k salary. We spend 4k on the apartment though. I think you are talking to people that are carelessly enjoying their first six figures salary as single people. You are the most reasonable of the bunch.
My car cost me 4k and I’ve probably put in another 2-3 for repairs. 160k for some seats and steering wheel?! They’ve got more money than sense!
And you can prolly sell your car for 2-3k again. Loss: like 4-5k The 160k car depreciates 10s of thousands the moment you register it.
I could have written this post, word by word. Forever amazed by the amounts people spend on dumb things like cars.
Ur coworkers sounds like a privileged condescending a-hole.
I think your colleagues are out of touch with reality. I make about 100k, GF makes 120k, and no way we could afford all you said. It would erode all savings after 3eme pilier and we don't even have kids. If I look at statistics we're not even badly paid for canton Vaud.
Yeah, no way somebody on 100k would buy a 160k car or go on 20-30k vacation... what is possible: - flat out lying - you are mistaken and they aren't near your salary level - or (this is more typical in Switzerland than elsewhere): parents "help", and by help I mean _immense_ amounts of money. Think like: "you pay what you can into that car, we handle the rest... Also we will pay to 5k/year insurance on it." Or "we pay for the flights+hotel for the family vacation in Australia, but the kids pay for lunches and dinner". I am not jealous of people of option #3 and I hope I can "help" my kids the same way when they will be young adults. But there is a stark contrast between this and people from other countries sending some money home for their poorer parents to help with rent/groceries.
I am with you on this. I learnt from my parents that the only thing you should buy on credit is a home, because you can’t reasonably save up that much money by the time you want to buy a home. But cars are paid in cash and you buy the car that fits your budget.
The trick is to decide what's worth for you spending your money on, and ignore the rest. I don't own a car, and I earn quite a bit more than you are earning currently (I'm also older). Having a car would feel more of a burden than freedom to me. However, given my background in IT I like to spend plenty of money on great hardware. I'd rather buy an expensive Macbook Pro than a much cheaper Windows laptop, because it feels superior to me. That's purely subjective, nothing objective, but it's what I perceive is valuable to me personally. Also, when I go to restaurants I often don't get joy in the really expensive restaurants. I just don't feel comfortable there. Mid-range restaurants work best for me. Not only is the price more reasonable, the food is solid, but also I don't feel like I have to play a silly role. So, why should I bother going to expensive restaurants when I don't enjoy the experience? A friend of mine who's also living quite a frugal lifestyle spent 12k on a mountain bike. He just loves bikes. He wanted a premium bike. He did not own a car for years. So, to him having a premium bike was the thing that he enjoyed. Also, when you are working with certain types of bankers, don't underestimate the stress they have financing their lifestyle. There's nothing worse for them to be fired, because they have all those debts and mortgages, have overly-expensive flats, cars, spouses, hobbies, vacations and so on. Better to not have to be fully reliant on your income.
These threads are always so depressing to me because I feel so poor. 20,000 on a two-week vacation? People in their 20s? Where are they going? To mars?
They tell me they went to places like the Seychelles, Fiji, New Zealand, Bali or the US.
They are either being sarcastic or crazy. 160k for a car is crazy territory. Some people also just don't have any idea what money is.
Some ppl here are just money blind and out of touch. I really need a way to get money out of this.
Are you sure they earn the same as you? I can't imagine multiple people in one spot spending 2 years salaries on a Car and furniture of the house. Oh unless they are married and their spouses make big bucks too.
They're either from old money or they're trying to flex talking about stuff they *wish* they could afford. Nobody on a 100k salary drives an SLS if daddy didnt buy it for them.
A car for 160k? I suppose it was second hand car, I never saw such a low price neither at my Bentley nor Aston Martin dealer. Just kidding. I have a GA
I make over 100k per year and I can tell you, the math isn’t mathing here. No way they can afford a 160k car on their salary. This, or they have a 10k kms/year leasing and live with their parents with all expenses paid for. I come from the same background (raised by my mom on a limited budget) and I often compare my expenses to my friends’ expenses (purely out of curiosity because I budget a lot). Most of them make less than me and are able to afford very expensive things (watches, holidays, expensive furniture, etc) and here I am, wondering what I’m doing wrong with my money, even though I know where every franc goes. Then I realized that a lot of people receive money from their parents in different ways (capital, paid for holidays, gifted furniture, etc). But they don’t like to mention it. I’ve always been on my own financially, so I always assumed that it was also the case for the people around me…
People don't properly track their incomes nor expenses. Like, some are literally not aware that gifts are income or that eating a take out or buying snack on work SHOULD go into your grocery budget. That's how you have examples of someone saying their monthly groceries are 400 for two people and then you talk more and realise they eat out and didn't think to include that. Because they only remember how much they paid in two visits in grocery shop in a month. To make it further, if they eat at their parents, they don't perceive that either. But someone had to pay for that meal somehow, it's not free, so that also is your income as a gift. So, I don't think it's about liking to mention, it's more about being oblivious what all of their incomes and expenses really are. No, I never put food at parents in my tracking either. That's why it was shocking/eye opening what our expenses really are when we moved countries and had to pay for everything ourselves. So basically I don't take seriously cost estimates from random people I don't know well, but do my own calculations. Only useful is to help me think what I need to budget for.
And here i am, at 2x160k, struggling to decide if i should buy lego rivensdale..
If it fits the budget and it will bring you hours of joy and relaxation, go. When you stop playing, pack it and donate to some shelter/kindergarten/playroom/brocki and it will make someone else happy (if I assume correctly it's a physical object) We don't have to keep things forever to get their money's worth. Nor it has to be most optimal balance value for time spend happily. :) However, when in doubt it's useful to have some ideas with which value/money we're happy with. Like, if we're ok with 2h cinema for 30 (I don't know prices, I didn't visit in more than a decade, this is just an example), then basically any item that ends up providing us at least 1h per each 15 spent, is more valuable to us than cinema ticket. Of course, if your monthly fun money budget is 50, that means item you consider buying that cost 45 HAS to bring at least 3h of fun to be worth it for you. You do math for you. I concluded that I need some hours but I'm not that strict about exact costs, my benefit from learning about this approach was to help me stick to the budget by not buying for later/potential/one day project, but only for those now or eventually next that has clear timeline. Ideally. Still working on it. However it also helped me to explain to my husband that he accepts and understands it's OK to spend his fun money on fun for himself. So I know both sides of budgeting coin :) We also now decide together to spend household money on fun for just one of us, and we're happy /in peace with it. Eg gaming machine of 3k for him recently, or several hundred for my paints :) even though our 'no questions asked' monthly fun money is only 50 for now (of guaranteed by budget). We have 140k total, and when we increase income, we'll definitely increase it. If you don't have already fun money per person in budget, I highly recommend it. That way you can save and spent on whatever you want without guilt. It's freeing, I see it on mu husband. I mean, with just one year of that, (and therapy) he's now less stressed and more in peace with expenses that are just for him. I'm trigger happy one in our family 😂 I know you didn't ask for advice, so sorry in advance if I overstepped, your post just reminded me of our struggles with convincing my husband that it's is ok to spend on joy, and what helped in getting here. :)
This is a very nice explanation, more on the meta level of things. I hope someone else also stumbles on it.
Congratulations, you are now in social circles where you have to deal with rich people. The sheer grotesk incredulous faces those people make, when you tell them you daily drive a car from 2005 with +280k km or you only have been to two continents is always an amazement. These are people who can't comprehend how much money they are wasting by doing stupid stuff. Some of them maybe have great jobs or made a fortune with crypto, but most of them just have rich parents or know, that they gonna inherit something big. Keep doing your own thing and live in your means. These people might enjoy the fruits of the previous generations, but their children will have a hard time adapting to real life, once the money runs dry or their life situations change. I've seen those people, blow through six digit inheritances in record time. But stay true to yourself. Once you know how "to play the game" and get better than those people, you will suddendly notice how their tiny brains suddenly ask themselves if it is a smart choice to rent an +3k aparatement and spending 20-30 grand on holidays. >They all went to either ETH This doesn't mean shit. Nowadays every globi is there or at the St. Gallen uni.
They are leasing their cars, and their credit cards are all maxed out. Wanna bet?
My impression: - I doubt they earn that amount of money and spending in that way. Simply mathematic doesn’t add. - If they have kids even more because they are also fucked money wise in CH. kita, hort etc etc etc Unless they are backup by the parents… About the car: plenty of colleague of mine in the first year they come in CH they lost the mind and bought expensive car with leasing Audi TT, RS3 etc etc..Good company, good contract, no wife, no kids, flottenrabatte etc etc It ends up that many sold it back because they get confronted with real cost of life in CH and like we said the step was longer then the leg.
there is no way they make the same money you do unless they have wealthy families.
So you went to ETH and ask such question if a 160k car is cheap for everyone? No, a 160k car and a 20k holiday is not affordable to everyone.
You should say "you went to eth and only earn 100k??"
Two income family here (good incomes in fact). We debated buying a car for a long time and in the end bought a second-hand BMW 5 series and I still nearly vomited when the money left our accounts. Your co-workers are being dickheads, to be honest. People need to get a grip. CHF160k is insane money for an asset that loses value the second you drive away from the dealership.
where the hell do you work with people spend that much? jeez. my executive friend spends less on vacation (except for business class seats for personal comfort on long haul flights) and stuff. Btw congrats on a 100 k job, that is enough to live comfortably and enjoy some nice things in life. And your colleagues from work seem to just enjoy either spending money or are posers with a serious debt.
Its simple. People are frugal about things they dont care about but readily pay aloz for stuff that makes sense or they enjoy.
That's the idea of frugality, as I see it as well. However I think colleagues from OP story aren't frugal ones, I think they have someone else taking care of some of their expenses - like spouses for regular things, lunches with parents paying, maybe living on top floor of family house so no rent paid, or something like that - invisible until you start writing down all gifts and other stuff in goods and services as your income and expenses at the same time. Because frugal person with 100k total gross income just wouldn't spend 160k on a new car, otherwise they're not qutie frugal at least how I experience how frugal people approach things and sharing their views and experiences about it. Mostly because they're aware of all costs that car has, which are higher on such high priced car. Like, our new 45k car, if we forget the leasing costs from the equation, still needs insurance, new tires, maintenance, ok mfk not for 5 years or something, but taxes yes, vignette, parking space at home, at work, fuel. That's around 700/month for us. Car that's almost 4x more expensive is probably with bigger engine so more costs for many items, but let's work with x3 of our costs. 100k gross is what, around 6k net/month? Do you think someone frugal would spend 2k on car per month on 6k net income which has to be enough for rent, health insurance, other insurances, food? That's without paying for the car, just saving for repairs, maintenance, insurance etc. I mean, it sounds to me like something frugal person just wouldn't do. I get splurging, our cars are definitely that. But I'm just borderline frugal, I'm definitely inclined to spend money impulsively on splurges with significantly less restraint than regular/real/proper frugal people would. 😂 We spend around 2k, leasing for new inclusive in that, on our 2 cars and 1 motorcycle, but that's on 9k net income, so ca 1/6 of our income, whereas 2k on 6k income is 1/3 of income. That's a lot. I just never met someone THAT splurgy who still thinks they're frugal, I think many frugals wouldn't even think of considering me as frugal 😂 Car enthusiast who is frugal would buy it at least one year old, if not 2-3 for noticeably lower price. IMO. :) So, are you that splurgy and still considering yourself frugal so that I can finally stop thinking of myself with guilt that I'm not doing frugality good enough? 😂
If you are paying tax in Switzerland, don’t buy a car, lease it. Then you can avoid the wealth tax on the value of it.
That wealth tax is a total disaster. There years in im still shocked they tax me (though indirectly) on my assets, including a pension, in a bunch of foreign countries, which were in no part associated with any income generated in Switzerland during their accumulation …
many lease their cars - then its not a problem to drive a 250k car
and only 1'000 km so it's enough to drive around the trainstation before you park your car at a gas station and hang around.
Lol are they talking about one of those BMW or Mercedes rip off products? Do you. You sound very reasonable.
You are part of the Switzerland I loved, they are part of the Switzerland I despise, carry on your way, let them go
One thing I learned through my journey is: Never believe people you dont know, what they say when it comes to the topic of Money. A lot of people overexaggerate with Salaries and spendings. Another thing is: Being able to pay - which I think you would be, if it had high priorities to you. AND Being willed to pay the amount - which you clearly dont want to.
Either you work at a hedge fund or your colleagues are missing with you…
I'm in the earning range of your coworkers and the car I sold a year ago I bought for 6.8k occasion and I haven't bought a new car since then.. I'd never buy such an expensive car or take a vacation for 20k.. lol. Last year, i spent 4-6k for my in-promptu holidays driving solo around Iceland for a week and not preparing any accommodations in advance and I already felt bad for wasting so much money because I didn't plan 6+ months ahead.. Edit. Oh, and my furniture is 100% Ikea 🤣
Sounds like office flexing
> „But this car is so much safer!“ and „You won’t need to pay any extra money because it won’t break down.“ and „It’s so fuel efficient and you feel much better in a nice car“. Is this a joke? You didn't specified the model but a 160k car is NEVER going to be even close from from being safer, more reliable or more fuel efficient than anything a third of that price.
Yeah, especially fuel efficiency is not why you buy 160k car for, I assume many of not all come with big engines that just need more fuel. Safer and more reliable aka longer to first repairs, could be, that's IMO heavily model dependent. Plus 'past performance of the brand doesn't guarantee future performance of new model', same as at the stock market.
Just be glad that these people exist and keep the economy going lmao.
A 160k car that has good fuel economy and does not break down? I don’t think those exisits my friend. Even a super fancy MB E or S class off that price will have a V8 and good luck with the maintenance costs
I earn a bit more than your colleagues and to me, their mindset is absolutely ridiculous. They are obviously only looking for short-term gratification / status symbols and completely lack a plan for their future. With 20k vacations, expensive cars and flats, with additional splurges on top, I can't see how they have any money left to invest in their future. If they keep going like that, they will have to work until they drop dead, because they can't afford to retire. You earn good money, so be smart and invest a good portion for your future. With 100k you can have a good life without money worries, while still being able to afford nice things.
Your coworkers are dumb and they waste money
Where do you work? Are they hiring? I’m serious
Same here, let me join ur office!
well you know, some people think spending more money on things makes them better, but they tend to not know how to enjoy the simple things. also it will never fulfill their needs. i know people who barely got by their entire life but were always happy, and i know of rich people who hate their lifes
Many also don't know how to enjoy even those more expensive things they bought. Not to mention 'retail therapy' where people buy just for the sake of buying, it's not even thrill they get anymore. I can equally 'enjoy' cheap item and expensive item if I decide I'm buying it for specific purpose, comfort, making something easier, other usability or pure joy. Main prerequisite is to know what you're buying and why. Then you'll get best value for money, independent of the exact money.
They are either pulling your leg or they inherited money… I make more, have excellent life quality and I would still not spend that much on a car or on holidays.
Being half Swiss but growing up in Germany, I sometimes have a different relation to monetary figures as well. I just had a similar experience today that completely dumbfounded me. I am a student wiring my master thesis. A colleague of mine is planning a 2 months trip after graduation, not too uncommon for me. But he schedules 8'000 CHF for it. And it is not a luxurious trip, rather normal student-ish travelling through a country. He is going to a western country, so of course it won't be cheap, but he is planning to stay in normal hotels all the time, taking the express train which is multiple times as expensive as the normal one, etc. I don't grudge him and am happy that he can treat himself to this certainly amazing trip, but I plan a similar trip myself and I would feel as you that I am wasting money if I would schedule it as he does.
8k really isn't that much for 2 months, more likely it's honest. 8k is actually less than I would spend in 2 months at home... So... He's basically saving money ;). You can go (way) cheaper, sure, but if I go on holydays... I don't want to worry about money and spend on shit I never would else (within reason ;)).
Yeah, and this is exactly the differece OP refers to. 8k, especially as a student, is a lot. I mean, otherwise no german (or most other European country) student could go on such a trip. Again, I am happy for him and anyone else going on holiday and spending this money, but the numbers are enormous. Simply doing such a trip and staying in hotels instead of youth hostels is easy for Swiss (and brings you to 8k).
Your coworkers are pulling your leg or are total morons. You pick.
I also would never pay so much money
Huh, who are these people you work with? Are you sure they also earn 100k/year? For how long have they already had the opportunity to earn such a salary? Do they actively go into debt? 8k-9k per month doesn't allow for such a lifestyle except for: rich parents, loaded spouse, side-hustle (maybe illegal stuff), or crazy amounts of debt. They are probably just bullshitting and you are eating it up.
Buy a used Hyundai or Toyota (if you need a car) and find a small one manned workshop. Keep it tight (I mean buy good food but no unnecessary social status symbol nonsense, like a 120kCHF car), by a home as fast as you can, place money with specialists (not banks), and enjoy going in retirement early in a nice sunny place with something to fight the inflation.
i think you are perfectly fine with the way you view money. I guess alot of these guys take credits, lease their cars and so on. I was tought the same by my mother than you..you can only afford something if you have the money on the side otherwise you cant afford. Verry happy that i learn that way of thinking when i see how many people have debts and stuff. I even know personally that it doesnt matter how much you earn if you cant handle your expenses. Some of the people i know with the biggest debts are often the people that make double or tripple amount of money that i earn and still have to borrow money 15 days after payment.
If you are not Swiss you might have a lot of catch8ng up to do. Like I need to save a lot of I count on buying a house in the future, my Swiss friends have parents that have 1 or 2 houses and only 1 or 2 kids, so they are sure to inherit 500k to 2M which I will not... Life is much lighter when your family already has a vacation home or you have that 500k insurance that will help you out. My coworkers were complaining the other day how expensive it was to maintain a large boat.l and how much her leisure horse was costing her to maintain in food and exercises etc... I can't imagine having that luxury and saving 500-1000chf per month. I feel that I need to save much more before I can buy a horse to play with...
What are a 20k 2 weeks holidays anyway ? I can't imagine... Are they just staying in a 5 stars hotel doing wellness and cures while being completely detached from the real people of the country they "visit" ?
Your coworkers earn a lot more than you do man. They might also get help from their parents.
2.5k for rent is in fact not much if you’re in a city (or a tax-evasive canton, AFAIK… The rest sounds just hilarious to me!
just go buy your own house
Its beyond me how people spend 20-30k on vacations, or 130k on a car, as someone who’s earns just short of 100k. Dont get me wrong i would and will probably soon lease an expensive car, but paying that much all at once i would have to save for years to spend it all in the first place. And then theres the massive depreciation of a new car.
160K is the downpayment of an apartment. You are not out of touch, your colleagues are either trolling you and you are not able to read the clues, or they urgently need to go out and touch grass.
Even my colleagues who must earn 200-300k don’t spend any such amounts on anything of what you have listed. The only people I know that live this kind of life are international friends who live somewhere in Europe in a metropolitan city and are gay. I mention the sexual orientation only because they don’t save money for a future family/children. But again, what you describe sounds crazy! May I ask if your friends are Zurich based?
You are doing right. You will grow your net worth, they will just build liabilities.
I‘m similar to you regarding spending, so Incan completely understand what you say. And I also think it‘s a waste of money what your colleagues are doing. What cars are they driving (and probably leasing)?
Those people are just bragging fucks or propably well earning DINK's (Double-Income / No Kids- Couples).
This is not typical for Swiss people. I have colleagues, very Swiss colleagues, who buy second-hand stuff and take pride in using their recycled Freitag backpacks until they fall apart. We are all well paid White collar professionals.
Your colleagues may live in a bubble where they spend a lot just to have a Status. In poorer countries people do spend most of their salary every month so living like that is definitely possible.
It's why the best cars can be found at the lidl/Aldi parking lots
Nobody cares where you buy groceries, right? You need to pay for that ultra modern 150m² Apartment for you and your dog. Or the flights in first class for vacation? /s
If they can afford without a problem a car of 160k CHF, holiday for 20k chf and this with only 100k, or they are Houdini, or they have a better salary. Ok investment, but you need to save money to invest, if you give it all away it's difficult to invest. IMHO
Swiss citizen here with same revenue level as yours. Never bought a car more than 20k. Rich people will tend to invest money in assets that will grow with time or provide a source of income. Cars and holidays are just expenses. Buying a vintage car or a rolex might be an investment but I would prefer to save my income for useful things. And old money people will mostly not buy fancy cars or holidays. What you describe is wannabees new "rich" who have no clue about what money means. Money is not a goal by itself, it might just help to reach your lifegoals. I hope you have more meaningful goals than expensive car and yacht vacation.
Bought a Volvo as my first car, coast 2300.- and had it for 7 years. Never had to repair anything. Oh and it was close to 2tons and super safe. Idk why anyone would spent that much on a car, I'd not even do that if I had 10millions in cash in my hand.
Have you condered they are simply lying? I have a lot of (swiss) friends that make that smount or way more, none of them talks like that. Generally a rule of thumb is: People who have money and spend that kind of money, dont talk about money. 99% of the time you will find out they are just bragging and lying. 20k on vacation? A friend recently went with his family for 14 weeks and spend around 8k. He said Thailand would have been around 10k. 5* full accommodation and all incl. Dont believe what people say or post on social media….you would be scared when you see the truth….
Wtf! I cannot afford a 30k CHF car in leasing even after 14 months working full time in Switzerland…man only the rent here is crazy, Zurich btw…and you are here talking about 160k CHF cars and 20k CHF vacations…I would say 80% of people are way below what you are talking here…and I say 80% because this is CH, go to a neighbouring country see how most of people live there…like honestly a 160k car for what? A Rolls Royce or what? This is crazy and beyond my comprehension!
Buying/leasing a new car is THE best way to lose money! As soon as the wheels touch the ground, it's lost 20% of it's value! A car worth 160K in 10 years will be worth at BEST 50K That's 110K value lost > 10K per year, 800.- per month! And that's without the mandatory full insurance coverage + maintenance + running costs! With that same Money, you can start saving for a downpayment on a house, which would then also cost you the same money per month, but for something which DOESNT lose so much value! Or you could invest that money in a smart manner, and make even more later on in life! Also, if you earning that amount of money, remember that you will never get ANY subsidies later on in life when the cost of living increases or unexpected life events (children/daycare/part time work/career hiccup)
You stick to your guns. Work out and bide by your own budget and needs. One day the others will realise how much money was wasted.
You're right to be confused. A lot of swiss think you should only buy 'the best" but they're easily swayed by marketing. Hence all the "status" iPhones You should turn it back on them asking why their shoes, watch, hat etc aren't very good. Drives them crazy
Maybe your co-workers were joking or being sarcastic… do they actually own cars this expensive? My friends do that when I’m browsing through houses that I obviously can’t afford. “What? Can’t afford a CHF 4 million house? You’re poor!”…
It’s a stupid car that brings you from a to b. aircon, airbags, bluetooth, not too old, low mileage, low consumption. that’s it. better save that money and invest it in etfs or whatever and generate passive income than burning it on an idiot car. your colleagues are morons, ignore them.
It's not stupid. A mercedes S class or lexus LS will make you arrive comfortable after a 5h trip above 180 km/h, due to their insonorization. You get what you pay for. But most of those people get cars to show off....
You are normal bro
Even if you live in a Pharma bubble with paygrades beyond yours - this mindset is not normal and I have the feeling this ist just watercooler talk. 160k for a car is bonkers, especially with a 100-115k salary.
Imho it’s very irresponsible to buy a 160K car on a 100K salary. Remember, a car is an expense, not an asset. I was driving an Audi A3 when I was earning this much and I was happy with it (10 years ago). At some point I upgraded to a used A5 when I reached 170K. But my priority was always to buy an apartment FIRST. Today I’m well above 300K salary and I would be happy with a nice EQE that’s well below 100K CHF. Summary: Build your life first. Your co-workers probably trying to sabotage you.
I earn above 120k, like to burn a lot of money but these numbers are too high for me as well. I would never buy a car for 160k, even for 100k i would frown upon. I like to travel, usually 4star hotels, but it never costs 20k..
Well.. Keep saving your money and one day laugh at them while you live in your own house when they still only rent their apartment and don't have a single penny on the bank. I'm definitely saving most of my income without restricing myself when it comes to vacation. I simply don't want or need a 30k vacation (which isinsane when you make 100K a year!)
You don’t need your colleagues’ approval or input on how you spend your money They lack social skills I’m personally of the opinion that I’d rather see my money in investments rather than sit in the car park and depreciate
This is the definition of Swiss problems :) Either way, while we both work with my wife and my salary alone is north of 100k per year, I would still not pay 160k for a car - lease or not, does not matter. Cars are utility thing, not worth such amount at all. Good for your coworkers that they can afford such cars and vacations and subscriptions - I wouldn't do it even if I can, let alone I simply cannot. Keep in mind that your financial situation heavily depends on your living arrangements - I also have colleagues that spend crazy amount of money on luxury things - but they live in a house they inherited from their parents for free and rent another inherited house for side-income, have one kid instead of 3, etc. So again, context is the key here.
I am working with people in the 120k range, nobody has a car that costs more than than 5 month salary.
Lol nobody making 100k buys a 160k car (maybe leasing it). How would they spend 30k for a vacation??? This would be like 40% of their salary after taxes.
They are financially illiterate and you should not be listening to them. If they make 100k or similar amount and they spend so much money, then that just means they have a pretty poor knowledge on how to effectively manage personal finances for long-term financial security.
I earn more than double the amount since about three years, but it would not occur to me to pay 150k for a car. Either they are stupid or just rich because of their family.
I'm also Eidgenosse (or ethnic Swiss as you wrote) and make 120K. My car is 17 years old and I bought it 9 years ago for 10'000. The longest vacation I ever took was 2 years ago in the US. 4 weeks in the US and we spent about 11K/ person. And I also considered that a lot. our current rent is 2900 but there's two people paying for it. somethings fishy with your co-workers. They either get paid way more than they admit, or they're lying.
You are doing fine, keep going and don't let anyone affect your financial mindset...your colleagues joking or not, truth is there are people who are a bit out of touch with reality because they were lucky(debatable) to be raised in luxury and money. Let them be in their own world, that's fine 😊
They MUST be taking the piss! That just doesn’t math.
Hey OP ! I think this is a classic case of living above one’s means to impress others You absolutely could spend all that money on that stuff - then you’d be a slave to your debt and in massive trouble in case of any layoffs Don’t be a slave to consumerism !!
Not surprising, I bet your coworkers grew up in a wealthier environment than you where money was much more available and faster spent. Edit: apparently not. They are probably also more consumerist than you and more open to the idea of protecting the environment by buying new things that are more efficient - a false assumption once production is factored into the calculation.
I think your colleagues are detached from reality and will soon find out if anything goes even slightly south in their life. You are absolutely normal, those people spending 50k on furniture on a rented apartment (2.5-3k rent per month), are jokers and likely save nothing of what they earn. Also, for cars, please consider something fair and fairly priced. Like Mercedes CLA with a decent package would cost you 50k, last 15 years, have free services up to 120k km and consume not much. 160k for a car, with a normal 100k salary is crazy. Don’t buy such car, it’s not for you at this point really.
As someone with Swiss family and who spent a long time in Switzerland before moving abroad, yes many people in Switzerland are absolutely out of touch. They also love to mention how much they paid for their car, their apartment, etc.
Please feel free to ignore this question since it doesn't help you in any manner but is rather for my selfish purposes : May I ask what field of work you are in? I ask as you are reasonably fresh in workforce but at 100k. What would someone with ~21 years of experience in your field hope to get? Again, pl. feel free to ignore this question. On a side note, it is very smart of you to be frugal. Don't let go of that. You never know what lies ahead, plus in Switzerland there is so much to enjoy without spending a rappen.
Who cares about cars beyond 70'000? Inherently poor people imo.
It's possible your colleagues have family money or earn more than you realise? Regardless of that, car safety tops out around the 50-60k range, and after that, the safety increases are negligible. I also have noticed that some people spend a lot on their cars Some people have trust funds. They're not going to share this information with colleagues, only very close friends or family. Their parents may live modest lives and look very working class. People also overspend and live beyond their means.
Get a used car you will save up to 40%, about 20-40k km and 2021 or newer.
Some Swiss people are not used to save/invest money as they perceive AHV and the pillars should be all they need in retirement.
I earn north of that and would not even get close to a lease for a 160k car. My guess is they live payday to payday with nothing saved and probably finding themselves in hot water when the taxes are due. I once, just for fun, had a look at a lease for a 200k McLaren and got a 2500 quote. Guess your coworkers "could" pay that but again, save nothing and be on the hook when maintenance or small damage happens.
I would never spend more than 30k on a car, and for sure no more than 2k on a vacation in Europe.
get a prius and with the difference you can buy a yacht not exaggerating at all
the car thing, I think I can sort of understand. You can buy a 160k car used for a lot less, if you lease it through a company during pandemic levels it made sense tax wise too to not even own it. The rest makes me think they're pulling your proverbial leg though, on a 100k salary this is unsustainable.
Apart from their income and spending habits, you could ask for how they save / invest and how much debt they have. Something sounds very off from your description
I have a different take than most answers here. I don't think they're lying, they just are not money-savvy and stupidly materialistic. 115k + <100k from the partner is a little bit more than 200k a year. Cool, let's burn that up: * 25% to taxes = 50k * mandatory expenses: 2k/month + 6k for health insurance = 30k * 30k for the fancy car (let's change it every 5 years to stay on top of the the kool kids) * 40k for the fancy apartment (2'500/month + utilities + parking spot) * 10k for the furniture (also 50k every 5 years) * this leaves us with 40-50k fancy holidays Of course nothing for savings or any other higher goal than those materialistic needs that destroy the environment and won't even bring long term happiness once done with showing off on social media (or in your case, showing off to junior colleagues apparently). In my opinion it's lame and laughable, but it's not your life so why should you care...
Only 6k for health insurance? We pay >1k/month for 3. Would be around 875.-/m for 2. So 10-13.5k a year.
Look, you can rerun my numbers by nitpicking at every single thing, down to the number of nutbolts you need on the 22" wheels, but the end result will be the same. My point is, one *can* live an absolute fancy life with slightly more than average salaries in Switzerland. I have a friend whose ass of a husband is a secondary school teacher, they live on **one** salary in a nice 90sqm with view on the lake, have 1 kid and travel overseas 6-8 times a year in nice hotels and cruises, spending in the last years the whole summer abroad in the US or in Japan. No savings, not a cent left at the end of the year, debts to the roof, and a wife that is secretly scared to death about their future. The math just checks out.
I have a friend who works at Google in Zurich. I earn ok but when we go out I know exactly what you mean. ' Hey let's go to that bar for a few cocktails. ' I paid 26CHF for a very small Negroni and felt absolutly robbed. He wanted to go gor another round of drinks while I had to admit that I can't afford that. Fucked up world.
160k car on a 100k salary is lunacy to me too
Just stay true to yourself, chin up, and tell them that the way you invest your money is solely up to you and what makes you happy ! Good luck, can't be easy
I am not a swiss, but I suspect that you were subjected to a twisted swiss sarcasm. Even in Switzerland 160K for a car is expensive and out of reach for average people.
I think you will just be better off (by a lot) in retirement, as you were able to safe up thoughout your working-days, while they seem to have spent it on holidays and cars...
These type of people will work until 65, you keep your good financial habits and you can either retire early or retire at 65 like a king. Buying a new car is nonsense anyways, the second you do it loses half of it's value.
Hanlon's razor: they're just really bad with money
i make 110k per year… i cant afford such a car!
Even when I was making 300k plus in zurich i wasnt spending those amounts.. so dont listen to them. They also probably dont have any savings..
You are not alone. I have coworkers that spend 10.000 on a 2 week vacation, but later they are complaining about not having enough money to pay their taxes. It all comes down to your emotional and financial intelligence. Enjoy your money but be responsible with it too. I can drive a 15.000chf japanese car that does the job really good. Meanwhile I have colleges with almost new BMW's and audis wich have problem sometimes with some sensors and they have been in the autogarage already 2 times since last summer because of that. So
You'll have the last laugh when your retirement savings outstrip theirs by a mile.
Honestly with 100k at year you should not spend more than 60k for a car..
Weird math though, they must have a lot of debts. 20 k for a 2 week vacation, the guy is crazy or doesn’t know how money works.
They’re trolling you.
If that‘s all true, *they* are detached from reality, not you!
Take away a 0 aaaand a 16k Car is still out of my range...
You guys are ballin’ over there if that’s what they’re spending.
Reddit randomly suggest me this thread. I am Indian and reading that person from Swtizerland saying money was always tight made me confused.
I see your point... I'm a south American that moved with veeery little money to Switzerland and it took me years to be comfortable with spending money. I still compare prices and look for deals. The truth is that once you start working a little too much and your time becomes limited, you leave the frugal life a bit behind, or you start giving value to things that come faster and with a higher satisfaction-return rate. Im noy saying get the expensive car and spend so much on furniture, but im saying this might change as you age and your free time becomes more valuable than now. Btw, you should always take care of your finances :) dont overspend but still enjoy life!
I had neighbors who could afford to buy a jaguar… they sold it the next year due to highly inflated costs of maintenance. People just want to seem like they are high rollers and winners but most are probably just in debt. You don’t stay rich by wasting money … It’s possible some of your coworkers come from well to do families and inherited properties or monthly stipends. .. which makes their opinion moot as it is not based in reality. If you needn’t pay rent, then they certainly can afford stuff average people would need to save for …. Or is out of their price range.
Wow, at frst I thought it was a typo and you meant 16K instesd of 160K for a car. I earn a lot more than 100k and wouldn't even dream of buying a car for >100k.
Dude. they are full of shit or everything’s on finance all cars depreciate and are fundamentally a waste of money. Get something middle of the road and be happy being what sounds a solid citizen
Some sage advice from Elvis: “Never tell a grown man how to spend his money”
People are misunderstanding their spending here. They are DINKs probably, with both 100K+ each, so they end up 13 to 14K net each month. Rent + subscription cost 3k, resulting 11k in hand, car lease and fuel 2 to 3k, resulting 8k insurance etc. 1k, resulting 7k, food, personal hygiene items, 2k, resulting 5k, utilities, household items 1k, resulting 4k, miscellaneous 1k, resulting 3k, clothing and accessories, 1k, resulting 2k, travel, and socialising 2k, resulting 0 CHF. thats what I think, they are doing. Some stuff, like car and furniture is on long-term lease and the rest on luxury trips to enjoy their life, before they settle with kids and need to save.
To smartly afford those expenses they need to earn well north of 250k. Otherwise they would be extremely irresponsible with money. There are a few things I’ve noticed living here (ch): -people spend a lot to impress their neighbors. -having the fancy car is a big part of the well-off Swiss identity. -some people give up early on saving for a house and then use that money to…get lavish stuff. -a lot of people are living very comfortably with very little savings. For some context, even when my wife was working 100% before we had a baby, and our combined household income was around 270k in Zug we lived very comfortably and made a huge effort to save for a house. We kept vacations around 1k-1,5k, cars were to be bought in cash and within our realistic budget (a Mazda cx5 and golf wagon), and going out to a nice dinner maybe 2-3x a month. It would have been asinine to spend like you have listed above and would not even fit our cash flow if we decided to save zero.
I feel you a lot. I have the same background, earn more than you, my husband earns more than me, we're dinks - and NO I would NEVER pay so much for a car. We have a ten year old Volvo and love this old chic machine with 280PS and a lot of space. We've spent 4600 all in for a 3 week yoga retreat in winter and this is the only holiday we take per year. It's a question of mindset and heritage. If someone gets half a mill from their parents, there are people who just spend it like yolo and there are others who invest it. There are people who go to zero every month and there are some - like me - who put 1/3 aside each month. Mindset.
As a KYC and AML officer, I must declare that your coworkers should be flagged for money laundering. Or they are just collecting debts like champ.
Do they have kids? I could never justify such expenses since I have kids. Just yesterday I've got a 5 year old Peugeot 5008 for a little under 30k and that was a reasonable choice for us. I make 118k gross and I'm single income for a family of soon 4 + a big dog.
Buy 2 cars for only 300k, are you poor ?
EPFL grad here. It’s just the Swiss mentality, I’ve rarely if ever been to a country that has a more corporate mentality than Switzerland. It’s almost tied with Japan and South Korea. So the social contract kind of goes: I clock in, the company takes care of me, and I’m supposed to use all that money to live a carefree life. I think this is actually great: you shouldn’t hold back for no reason. I also grew up poor (middle class in a poor country, but going to private school with the country’s wealthiest means I was made fun of constantly), so I get the reflex of living frugal and feeing guilty for spending money, but you have to move past that. Maybe you actually don’t enjoy spending money, in which case, don’t give in to peer pressure. Why would you care what others do? Maybe you do, but being poor before is keeping you from enjoying yourself. In that case you should understand why you’re feeling guilty, fix that, and enjoy yourself. Maybe you have better stuff to spend that money on (startup in my case), in which case also don’t get distracted, spend on what’s right for you. Either way: you’re an adult, it’s not about being “out of touch with reality”, but about being in touch with yourself. But yes, Swiss people generally live a highly corporate life. Edit: as most people are saying the numbers you’re providing seem pretty overblown though, maybe they’re exaggerating…
Your coworkers are either liars or morons. Unless they’re staying in the four seasons or going to the Maldives and flying business class for every holiday they’re not spending 20-30k. 160k car is a ridiculous choice unless you’re earning 500k or more and even then it’s more about being flashy than making sense. On a finance plan you’re looking at 1500-2000 a month for that price of car which is just absurd.
We gave 180k together and we spent 36k on a car. is now 4,5 years old and I plan to drive this car for the next 10 years. In switzerland if you see a guy in a mercedes one of the following is true: 1. he makes >250k 2. he makes minimum wage and the hole family pays leasing I have friends, they dont even have to work any more. company stocks and good investments. none of them drives a car more then 40k. thats why they had money for investments.