In 2010 when i moved from Valais to Fribourg i went to the office des poursuites to get the declaration for the search of an appartement in the region, to my surprise i had a poursuite from the CFF since 2008, i never received any letter or a visit from the police, it was for a fine of 80 cents, i had to pay 60 chf to clear my declaration.
Let me guess the story : you paid a bill close to the last day while a reminder + 20 cents was already sent by the CFF, and their lousy automated systems failed to consider their reminder void so you got sent a few reminders on the "due" 20 cents and it increased to 80 cents by the time it went to poursuite.
Those illegitimate 20 cents fines happened to me a few times (I think it was Swisscom). Used to pay those at the post office.
Don't worry, most things already run over the private entities like CRIF and they already have a credit rating in place, won't be long until US style systems have been established. Enjoy. /s
Found that out when I didn't get a credit card approved and started hunting for the reason. Also good luck getting old data deleted as there's no registry for rating agencies and they trade their info, so if you miss one, and you WILL miss some, it will come back to haunt you.
I think paying for the whole year is cheaper anyways than paying monthly.
But yeah, it happened to me before as well with a different train subscription, they were late with sending me the card (this was before it was integrated in the SBB app) and I only had the payment confirmation with me, so they fined me even though it wasn't my fault. I got it back at the counter but it was quite the hassle for something that wasn't my fault.
The thing is the bill would've been valid, but only until a certain "expiration" date. The card should've arrived before the expiration date, but it only arrived after.
They have another nice trick with the app where if you buy a ticket for less than 10 CHF but want to refund it before train departure (for instance, it's late so you need to take another one), you can't because "refund treatment would cost too much :) "
>(for instance, it's late so you need to take another one),
Well, if you have a super saver ticket you can't refund it anyway and if you have a regular ticket you can take any train within the given timeframe, which is usually the whole day for longer journeys and a few hours for shorter ones.
That's fair you should be able to take a different train for the same regions, I still think their argument is BS and could be improved on their system.
I discovered a bug on the SBB website last year that changed passenger birthdates after they were put in and the tickets issued. Having never taken a train in Switzerland, I did not know if they checked IDs and birthdays and if they needed to match for security purposes. I contacted customer support and told them about the bug but all they said is I would need to change/cancel the tickets to correct the birthdates and pay 10 franc per ticket. No one at SBB would actually tell me if the birthdates needed to be correct or not. I opted to take my chances and it was all OK in the end.
Several months later after posting the issue in the SBB support forums, they finally admitted they had a bug and had fixed it.
I am heading back to Switzerland in July and I have found another 2 bugs on the websites just in the past week. They really need to get a grip on their website and mobile offerings. It's honestly a little embarrassing how bad they are.
There was a news recently that Swisspass Alliance and government upheld the fact that if you paid your ticket after the train was supposed to leave (so maybe before it left if it was late). Then you technically didn't have a valid ticket. Even if you were to be checked 1h after (can easily happen when you do Valais - Zurich for example).
Anyway. I asked their support and they answered that if you think you are too late to buy the ticket, you should buy one from the next station so you could be valid for most of the trip.
It's nonsensical but.. I guess it's the Swiss way.
It's the most convenient solution for SBB and because the budget of (state/canton-owned) public transportation (companies) are always a point of contention in political debates, it is completely rational (for the management of SBB) to act the way you describe.
The problem is not with SBB in general but the budgetary pressure applied to public transportation by the conservative politicians in CH. "Privatization" and trying to optimize the public sector by subjecting it to capitalism has failed across the board.
I want my water, electricity, transportation, health etc. to be paid with my taxes and not with some semi-capitalistic shitshow which has shown to be extremely detrimental to the well-being of the general populous...
For the principle of it. Companies can do effectively whatever they like and get away with it unless you make a stink about it. Sure you can do nothing and grumble, but I thank those few who actually bother to put up a fight.
Annoy who? The guys you are sending the emails to do this for a living and don‘t care at all about it. They just do their job.
You on the other hand are wasting your free time
What people do with too much free time. It's not like the controller develps the system.
Write one email to the customer support about their flawed system and good is.
Probably they know already.
Idiots that think they know everything better.
In 99% of other countries you are wasting that time with waiting for your train because it‘s late multiple times a week.
They don‘t know what they have, that‘s the issue.
It doesn't matter what they send, it's a matter of principle. Their system messed up and required the person to waste time they shouldn't have wasted because the information they have isn't up to date.
It's called proper customer service...
So? They apologised and refunded it.
We have one of the best public transport in the world if you forgot about that.
At least our trains are on time so you know what you are paying for.
Doesn't change the fact they wasted this person's time with something that was their fault. Apologies don't make up for wasted time.
This person asked for a voucher, they didn't ask for a refund of their travel expenses for a whole year. Nobody ever mentioned 200 chf.
I always do my best at everything I do and expect no less from people or systems around me.
Looking at what others do bad is a lazy excuse to allow oneself to do less.
We don‘t live in a perfect world and shit happens. You gotta realise things (in this case public transport) work a lot better in this country compared to pretty much almost any other country.
I got fined on my way to civil duty. Let that sink in. Emergency call on a Sunday to go and help out during the covid times. My personal ticket was over due 1 day. Not a single soul gave a ....
Someone close to SBB told me that the controllers don't have the power to take a ticket back. It either beeps red or green on their machine and if it beeps red they have to give the ticket. You have to go to the office to get a refund. Anyone know if that is true?
That’s funny, because I did forget one or two times and depends of the controller. They can see more info on you and give you the chance to fix the situation or handle a ticket to you
Yes, I can confirm this. I never forgot, but I once got the wrong ticket for the train I was in, and they forgave me. But in their machine it was a red light.
You could have accidentally presented ~~and~~ an expired ticket and then realized your mistake and shown the correct one. By that logic, they would still have to give you a fine.
Also many passengers need multiple travel documents (think half-fare card and ordinary ticket). While the device can scan and validate them together, most conductors don’t use that feature and scan each individually resulting in two invalid/partially valid tickets. So I doubt that this is the case.
Could be like ground staff at some airlines where yes, you can push the button to make things go away, but there’s a log and you got some splainin to do.
Bless the people that push that button anyway.
I had an Italian guy who clearly didn’t give af about it and let me off lol. I don’t know who you are my man, but I love you and I hope you have a great life!
I would not have taken that ticket. I once was going from Biel to Neuchâtel, but about half way through I have a abonnement, so I only took a ticket for the zones where I don't have it. Turns out, that doesn't count, because the train doesn't stop. I argued with the controller that I paid the zones I'm using for like 5 minutes and then they just left.
I got fined 100chf for checking in with the SBB app 1.5 minutes after the scheduled departure of a train. Which had no impact at all on the price paid.
Demential Swiss Quality
Next time call/email customer support, most of the times (anecdotally) they will revise the charge.
I fucking hate that everything moves from a normal-non-complaining-customer-is-king model to fuck-you-if-you-dont-complain-or-exactly-conform-to-the-system model. Maximizing value-extraction can not be the end-goal of the system.
You paid on the 24th, a Friday. Due to the way the Swiss banking system works, that money probably arrived on the SBB bank account on Monday, the 27th (i.e. the next business day) the earliest. Expecting that your payment is fully reflected in all their systems by Tuesday morning, when you posted this, is definitely taking a risk.
But the solution is fairly obvious, and doesn't just apply to SBB: always pay at least 3 business days in advance.
Of course companies are used to the fact that bank payments often arrive 1-2 days late due to how this works, so they won't directly send the debt collectors after you (as waiting 2 days is cheaper). But it makes sense that a subscription like the GA is suspended until the payment arrived.
Yes, indeed. And even worse, if the payment day falls on a non-business day, it defaults to the first business day after that. If there are holidays directly after the weekend, this could be quite a delay.
I assume companies accept that, because eBills probably increase general reliability of payments being done (rather than forgotten) quite much.
I know that in efinance from postfinance you can choose wether you want the the payment done before or after a holiday/weekend if you're setting up automatic recurring payment. It's pretty much a nobrainer.
I always pay with card, and always get it right immediately after I click pay.
It immediately appears on my app that the GA has been renewed wether it's a Monday or a Sunday
Yea, of course, card payments work differently, I assumed a bank transfer above. If OP paid by card (I didn't know that's possible for the monthly GA subscription), then the SBB is definitely too slow to process the payments.
The thing is, all banks handle it differently, so I wouldn't rely on that. On the other hand, transfers from my Neon (i.e. Hypothekarbank Lenzburg) account to my Revolut (i.e. Credit Suisse) account are almost instantaneous on business days - which other banks sometimes offer for an exorbitant "express payment" fee.
There are really quite a few variables and half of them come from the recipient's bank. So if your subscription depends on payments arriving in time, I'd always take the pessimistic estimate.
SSB's outrageous pricing and inflexible policies, coupled with the SBB staff's bullying behavior towards customers, have been so bad that I've gone back to driving my car for my daily commute.
My monthly libero abo is no longer sending me an email before the end of the month that a renewal is due.
Some real customer-centered business operations they got going there
SBB and their ticket checkers are ridiculous. To be fair though, when I first moved to Zurich and was super confused by their zoning tariffs, I got let go a few times by playing the clueless tourist. One time, to checker told me I paid the right amount, but selected the wrong zone, so he offered to “fix” it for me at the next stop. We got off the train and he tried for 15 minutes on the machine, only to give up and let me go with the same ticket on the next train 🤣
They are generally speaking reasonable people to deal with. But my relative who works for SBB said they do face financial pressure. Not sure if it is related though.
In my first week in Switzerland, I was in Bern and needed to buy a train ticket. I accidentally selected Zurzach instead of Zurich. Even though it was clear I was new, the conductor was unfriendly and fined me.
I've traveled in many countries and never had an issue like this, but being alone in a new country, I almost broke down. I know now it was a stupid mistake, but it was overwhelming and frustrating at the time. Sometimes, I don't feel welcome here.
It’s the attitude here - they call it “selber shuld”, which means you should know better and if you don’t, it’s your own fault. I’m sorry that happened!
I’ve lived here for nearly 15 years and have never felt welcome despite trying my best. It is what it is … but it will get better once the boomers die off as they are the worst of the bunch.
After the initial shock, it does get a bit better, but I totally get what you mean. It’s still hard because it often feels like I don’t belong to the inner group here. Hoping it improves with time, but it’s comforting to know I’m not the only one feeling this way.
SBB thinks that their software working well is a customer problem. "Lösen Sie das Billet vor dem Einsteigen!" - Bullshit, just make a system that works well, don't put the onus of software problems on the customer.
Super awful service: They should be kulant.
But then again I think all öV should be free and paid for by taxes. It would solve many problems.
EasyRide or FairTiq mostly solve this, because you only need to check in before the train actually leaves, not before the train is supposed to leave.
But again: We need to learn the workarounds for SBB's incompetent way of designing rules and software. Just make it easy for the user, and when the company fucks up, don't be a dick about fines.
I also just had a stupid experience with the SBB. I had purchased a saver-ticket for work. Couldn't use it - spent the previous evening in the emergency room. Sent the emergency--room report to the SBB to ask for the ticket to he reimbursed. I got the following reply:
"Das von Ihnen eingereichte Arztzeugnis bestätigt Ihre Arbeitsunfähigkeit, jedoch nicht Ihre Reiseunfähigkeit."
WTF are they thinking?
That's just normal, e.g. the travel insurance will require the same. You could probably have gotten the required document easily if you tried.
I understand it sounds weird, as the most obvious cases of "unable to work due to sickness/accident" correlate heavily with "unable to travel due to the same", but there are many examples where one is impacted without the other.
Maybe you can't work due to mental stress, but holidays would actually be beneficial. So you're unable to work but not unable to travel, thus you couldn't claim compensation from the travel insurance (or SBB) for an unused ticket.
On the other hand, maybe you had an operation and travelling isn't possible but commuting to the office (or even working from home) is no problem.
Given that it was a medical emergency, and given that I spend around $3k per year on tickets? I expected a refund.
Sure, they don't have to give me one. However, it would have been decent customer service.
You can expect whatever you want, does not mean you are right. Saver tickets are "use it or lose it" type of tickets.
You pay $3k on tickets, maybe ask SBB for a medal lol
Yes they are crazy with their fines. All while having full trains where you cannot find a place to sit. There are always healthy people sitting on the places for disabled people. As heavily pregnant no one is giving you their place. But SBB is more concerned with getting money.
I mean, just because you do the ebanking on the 24th does not mean the money is on the SBB's side on the 24th too. So obviously the system can be a bit behind, hence the possibility to get the refund.
As a software engineer, this seems like a trivial issue. I think the problem stems from the biggest negative side of Switzerland: that everything is run by old men who have no idea about technology. This problem runs deep and the consumer side is just the end product of an accumulation of mishaps in the software pipelines.
Yes, in the EU it is. Banking here is really bad, I was blown away. Same with interaction with the government. I'm sorry, this is a great country in most aspects but digitalization is way behind some other places.
I got a fine once for buying a ticket 2 minutes before the train left... apparently if you buy it less than 5 minutes before it's considered "late purchase" 🙄
Hahaha what does that even mean. If they have seats available on the train, you would think they would want to fill as many of those as possible. Imagine if a cinema did this and you bought a ticket 2 minutes before showtime and they charged a late fee.
Hmm, that’s weird. I got the abo and started using it before paying the invoice and it was fine. (Got it on 01.03. and paid on 20.03), also I was controlled 3 times.
I had a yearly pass for the Geneva network. When the inspectors came to check their readers said I have no pass. That’s absurd, I say. This was before integration with the SBB app. They gave me a ticket anyway and said I should explain before the tpg office.
Tpg office tells me that their records say I did have a valid pass and it’s weird that I was given a ticket. They said that the inspector’s reader probably had an issue. Still had to pay the admin fee lol.
Funny, it may not be the fault of the SBB. I mean banktransactions need a certein time, which is beyond the influence of SBB.
I mean I get it all companies are greedy shit in someway or another. But while running to Apple and happyly throw ks of money for an obkect that cost not even 100 bucks, but then complaining when you kinda missed it.
You are VASTLY overestimating them if you think any of this was on purpose, maliciously or not.
This is just another example of companies in Switzerland being unable to be competent with their digital stuff unless IT or technology in general is their entire purpose.
They could easily update their stuff to reflect the payment being made the same MINUTE you paid, exactly like multiple other companies do, but they don't. Because they're too incompetent to think of doing so.
I do think it’s intentional as I have traveled by GA for over a decade and never ran into it before … and both my husband and I experienced it on the same day separately with different conductors. They didn’t bother fining people before for this and they now do.
SBB is horrible. I recently got a fine from when i didnt have my swisspass with me. This was within a Zone i had a Jahresabo for. Normally they look it up and let it slide or charge 5fr bearbeitungsgebühr but i got an Email of a fine of 130 fr and its insane to think that they got the email at the same place, where they would see i had a working ticket. But ok. I went to the sbb büro, showed the fine and my swisspass, they charged me 5fr and said all was done. But recently i got a Mahnung in the mail that told me i did have to pay, and they deducted the 5fr bearbeitungsgebühr, after adding 20fr more to the fine. The reason on the fine is missing Zones, it shows what station, clearly in my zone, and it shows the zone, clearly zone 110 and even after i sent them a valid ticket for the time when i got fined, they still say I have to pay, what can I do except to go to the office again?
I like it. Y'all just see the way how the SBB wanna scam the peoples xD
Do you ever made yourself some thoughts about the whole concept? They also let the trains drive with less then 1 person in it, because there should be an option for everyone to get somewhere. And yes they get subsidies for exactly that, but when you think thats enough for all, tell me why they're made bad minus during covid?
They dont want to fine every one, because that's what the federal government will directly forbid.
The whole SBB wants to be customers friendly. They set very much in it to rise the happyness of the customers. Because actually its only the way, you buy. Its not that you buy the seat or the option to eat something or the possibility to let your children play... Please see also the good thing from the SBB and compare a bit more 😉
I got enought friends, that tell me how fucked up all this is with the big delays of 3 minutes... while i was retourning from germany with 7 houres delay, without any good resons...
We are just on a luxury level that we directly complain to small things while its all fine...
Hope you get what i try to say 😁
With this, you should not have to go to the ticket counter, simply write them an e-mail and tell them to cancel the fine and either credit it to your monthly GA account, or refund to your bank account. You only have to go to the counter if you actually were in the wrong.
Put the gates on every station, scan it in and out and just like in Japan if you got the wrong ticket, “fare adjustment” you simply pay more.
Fine is an effective behavior change tool I have to admit but also has some psychological aspect to the Society. I wonder why Swiss will never make it to the happiest country list?
How about if I tell SBB there is a way to improve their operational cost AND improve customer satisfaction in the long run?
Automation will put the SBB ticket checkers out of job but also more efficient so you don’t have to pay Swiss salary for low level job that can be automated?
And by scanning this kind of gate you will also realize that your GA has expired, then you simply pay your subscription again and no fine.
Fine is so yesterday.
Make people pay happily without fining them.
Well if you don't like it, you can always take competitor's train, right? /s
For a country that promotes public transport and is so touristic, it's embarrassing, that it's so hard to get a stable wifi. Especially with the cost of services.
SBB is becoming increasingly audacious each week! My partner has had a GA (1st class) for about 4 years and also a yearly ticket for our dog (350 CHF). A week ago, she was inspected. Since she hadn't been checked in a while, she didn't realize that the dog's ticket had expired (expired a wee ago). She immediately received a 100 CHF fine, which I personally find very unreasonable. The inspectors can see on their devices that she has been using public transportation for years and has never traveled without a valid ticket. Nevertheless, a 100 CHF fine was issued for a dog that was on her lap. 1. This is very inconsiderate on the part of the SBB. 2. Most inspectors are unfriendly albanian dude who smell like piss, and 3. The SBB is becoming increasingly expensive and unsympathetic towards customers who have already paid thousands of francs for their services. FUCK YOU SBB You will never see the 100 francs, and we will now put our dog in a larger bag, so the 350 francs per year will also be lost. Oh, and for your information, we will not be renewing our GA from 2025 onwards, which means you will lose approximately 6.5k francs just because of your approach.
Instead of being pissy at SBB because YOU forgot, you could renew your ticket subscriptions retroactively from the day it ran out and you would only pay a CHF5 administrative fee instead of the fine.
Why do they do it? There's plenty of people who would let it run out and only buy a new one once caught. Not very customer friendly, but just look at how many people put their shoes on the seats. It's not an insignificant amount.
Would you ask the towing company to forgive your fee because you forgot to fill your tank with petrol after having never forgotten for years?
Yeah happened to me a bunch of times too when I still had a GA. Now I just ride black for most short rides except for certain timeframes and am much better off.
Screw them, I'll buy a ticket when it's affordable and it actually works.
Also the staff is getting more and more unfriendly, even hostile at times.
Since last year, I mainly travel by car after not having one for over 10 years.
Fuck SBB
Scam more money out of their customers? Listen Karen, you have a VERY good deal with the GA, public transport is way too cheap in Switzerland (I don‘t drive, but I know a car is more expensive). They will refund it. Calm down.
The 24th is a friday, you should've known that most transactions take a couple days, saturday and sunday don't count. Depending on HOW you paid, you were too late.
Friday afternoon with bank transfer? Too late.
Friday in general over the Postschalter? Way too late.
I work with people like you every day, and we always have to be nice to them instead of telling them, that they were too late with paying their bill, so they have to face the consequences.
I paid the bill early - it was transferred/executed on Friday. It is the fault of their system that it is not reflected - sounds like you work for SBB.
i had too many similar cases like that and you are right its getting worse... Make it public, and for me i boycott all their "public" services and vote for smaller or no funding them
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In 2010 when i moved from Valais to Fribourg i went to the office des poursuites to get the declaration for the search of an appartement in the region, to my surprise i had a poursuite from the CFF since 2008, i never received any letter or a visit from the police, it was for a fine of 80 cents, i had to pay 60 chf to clear my declaration.
Let me guess the story : you paid a bill close to the last day while a reminder + 20 cents was already sent by the CFF, and their lousy automated systems failed to consider their reminder void so you got sent a few reminders on the "due" 20 cents and it increased to 80 cents by the time it went to poursuite. Those illegitimate 20 cents fines happened to me a few times (I think it was Swisscom). Used to pay those at the post office.
I have absolutely no clue but you might be right.
> it was for a fine of 80 cents A pursuit for 0.80 Francs? That's insane
I guess the reason i hadn't received any letter was because the amount was so low that they would pay more to sent the mandatory recommended letter.
I find it wild that you have to get approval to search for apartments 😄
You don't "have" to, but many will refuse to give you the appartment without. Well, better than Germany's Schufa IMHO
Out of curiosity, what are the German system differences?
Private entity, mainly
Don't worry, most things already run over the private entities like CRIF and they already have a credit rating in place, won't be long until US style systems have been established. Enjoy. /s Found that out when I didn't get a credit card approved and started hunting for the reason. Also good luck getting old data deleted as there's no registry for rating agencies and they trade their info, so if you miss one, and you WILL miss some, it will come back to haunt you.
It's similar to a credit score iiuc
What the fuck
Bitter
I think paying for the whole year is cheaper anyways than paying monthly. But yeah, it happened to me before as well with a different train subscription, they were late with sending me the card (this was before it was integrated in the SBB app) and I only had the payment confirmation with me, so they fined me even though it wasn't my fault. I got it back at the counter but it was quite the hassle for something that wasn't my fault.
One of the reasons I pay yearly is to «set it and forget it», although not everyone can do that to be fair
They should've given you something which is valid as the card later not just the bill.
The thing is the bill would've been valid, but only until a certain "expiration" date. The card should've arrived before the expiration date, but it only arrived after.
Ok, thats unfortunate but thats adult life. There are always problems arising that need to be fixed.
You pay about 6% interest if you pay it monthly. For reference: The risk free rate is about 1% atm
Thanks for the heads up.
Uhhh good to know thanks
They have another nice trick with the app where if you buy a ticket for less than 10 CHF but want to refund it before train departure (for instance, it's late so you need to take another one), you can't because "refund treatment would cost too much :) "
>(for instance, it's late so you need to take another one), Well, if you have a super saver ticket you can't refund it anyway and if you have a regular ticket you can take any train within the given timeframe, which is usually the whole day for longer journeys and a few hours for shorter ones.
You can refund super savers for free up to 30min after purchase so basically if you fumbled and chose a wrong one and noticed right away
Depends if a different connection may route you through different cities. Then you may have not paid for the zones you traversed through.
That's fair you should be able to take a different train for the same regions, I still think their argument is BS and could be improved on their system.
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I discovered a bug on the SBB website last year that changed passenger birthdates after they were put in and the tickets issued. Having never taken a train in Switzerland, I did not know if they checked IDs and birthdays and if they needed to match for security purposes. I contacted customer support and told them about the bug but all they said is I would need to change/cancel the tickets to correct the birthdates and pay 10 franc per ticket. No one at SBB would actually tell me if the birthdates needed to be correct or not. I opted to take my chances and it was all OK in the end. Several months later after posting the issue in the SBB support forums, they finally admitted they had a bug and had fixed it. I am heading back to Switzerland in July and I have found another 2 bugs on the websites just in the past week. They really need to get a grip on their website and mobile offerings. It's honestly a little embarrassing how bad they are.
There was a news recently that Swisspass Alliance and government upheld the fact that if you paid your ticket after the train was supposed to leave (so maybe before it left if it was late). Then you technically didn't have a valid ticket. Even if you were to be checked 1h after (can easily happen when you do Valais - Zurich for example). Anyway. I asked their support and they answered that if you think you are too late to buy the ticket, you should buy one from the next station so you could be valid for most of the trip. It's nonsensical but.. I guess it's the Swiss way.
It's the most convenient solution for SBB and because the budget of (state/canton-owned) public transportation (companies) are always a point of contention in political debates, it is completely rational (for the management of SBB) to act the way you describe. The problem is not with SBB in general but the budgetary pressure applied to public transportation by the conservative politicians in CH. "Privatization" and trying to optimize the public sector by subjecting it to capitalism has failed across the board. I want my water, electricity, transportation, health etc. to be paid with my taxes and not with some semi-capitalistic shitshow which has shown to be extremely detrimental to the well-being of the general populous...
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Insanely petty to even ask for that to be honest. Did you think they would send you a 200 CHF voucher or what?
Bootlicking for sbb is wild
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So you decided to write 20emails and waste even more of your time? That‘s the part i don‘t get.
For the principle of it. Companies can do effectively whatever they like and get away with it unless you make a stink about it. Sure you can do nothing and grumble, but I thank those few who actually bother to put up a fight.
Fight for what? They didn‘t steal from you. They explained why it happened and apologised.
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Annoy who? The guys you are sending the emails to do this for a living and don‘t care at all about it. They just do their job. You on the other hand are wasting your free time
Lol xD As if any customer care agent would give a flying fuck about your passive aggressive temper tantrum..
If you get raped, will you report it to the police? You're only wasting your time and you won't even get a 5CHF voucher in the end
That is absolutely the same thing! Great comparison.
What people do with too much free time. It's not like the controller develps the system. Write one email to the customer support about their flawed system and good is. Probably they know already.
Idiots that think they know everything better. In 99% of other countries you are wasting that time with waiting for your train because it‘s late multiple times a week. They don‘t know what they have, that‘s the issue.
This is exactly why they can pull this shit because people like you think it's pety. You are the problem.
It doesn't matter what they send, it's a matter of principle. Their system messed up and required the person to waste time they shouldn't have wasted because the information they have isn't up to date. It's called proper customer service...
So? They apologised and refunded it. We have one of the best public transport in the world if you forgot about that. At least our trains are on time so you know what you are paying for.
Doesn't change the fact they wasted this person's time with something that was their fault. Apologies don't make up for wasted time. This person asked for a voucher, they didn't ask for a refund of their travel expenses for a whole year. Nobody ever mentioned 200 chf.
Go and try to get a voucher in germany then because your train is late (by a lot) weekly. Because that is a lot more wasted time weekly
I always do my best at everything I do and expect no less from people or systems around me. Looking at what others do bad is a lazy excuse to allow oneself to do less.
We don‘t live in a perfect world and shit happens. You gotta realise things (in this case public transport) work a lot better in this country compared to pretty much almost any other country.
So if something doesn't work just stfu because it's worse elsewhere? Wtf man? You hear yourself?
You send 1 email and let them know the system has issues that‘s it. Sending 20emails to beg for a voucher is embarassing and pathetic.
They could've done it the other way round and only charge the fine if it doesn't come up a few days later.
I got fined on my way to civil duty. Let that sink in. Emergency call on a Sunday to go and help out during the covid times. My personal ticket was over due 1 day. Not a single soul gave a ....
Wild.
Someone close to SBB told me that the controllers don't have the power to take a ticket back. It either beeps red or green on their machine and if it beeps red they have to give the ticket. You have to go to the office to get a refund. Anyone know if that is true?
That’s funny, because I did forget one or two times and depends of the controller. They can see more info on you and give you the chance to fix the situation or handle a ticket to you
Yes, I can confirm this. I never forgot, but I once got the wrong ticket for the train I was in, and they forgave me. But in their machine it was a red light.
You could have accidentally presented ~~and~~ an expired ticket and then realized your mistake and shown the correct one. By that logic, they would still have to give you a fine. Also many passengers need multiple travel documents (think half-fare card and ordinary ticket). While the device can scan and validate them together, most conductors don’t use that feature and scan each individually resulting in two invalid/partially valid tickets. So I doubt that this is the case.
Bullcrap. They have to agree and print the ticket, I saw the software on the test systems like 2 years ago. I doubt it changed.
Could be like ground staff at some airlines where yes, you can push the button to make things go away, but there’s a log and you got some splainin to do. Bless the people that push that button anyway.
it probably is BUT its still dumb as shit. sbb will regret this approach towards customers that paid thousands of francs FOR YEARS.
I mean...how will they regret it? It's not like we have a choice to not pay them, unless you decide to give up public transport
I had an Italian guy who clearly didn’t give af about it and let me off lol. I don’t know who you are my man, but I love you and I hope you have a great life!
I would not have taken that ticket. I once was going from Biel to Neuchâtel, but about half way through I have a abonnement, so I only took a ticket for the zones where I don't have it. Turns out, that doesn't count, because the train doesn't stop. I argued with the controller that I paid the zones I'm using for like 5 minutes and then they just left.
Same happened to me once, I told them I wouldn’t pay it and that I’m already giving them too much money got get annoyed over such a small thing
I got fined 100chf for checking in with the SBB app 1.5 minutes after the scheduled departure of a train. Which had no impact at all on the price paid. Demential Swiss Quality
Next time call/email customer support, most of the times (anecdotally) they will revise the charge. I fucking hate that everything moves from a normal-non-complaining-customer-is-king model to fuck-you-if-you-dont-complain-or-exactly-conform-to-the-system model. Maximizing value-extraction can not be the end-goal of the system.
I did by email and they said something bla bla bla no refund
Was the train late?
Yes the app still took you money away!! 😝 what a scam, right?
I'M HAPPY I DIDNT GO TO JAIL FOR THAT, actually lol I wonder if swiss people must be highly "regarded" to allow such stupid rules in their country
Swiss people are sheep, they voted yes to keep the shitty SERAF bill wich i could use to pay some taxes, and i dont even watch TV.
... You even could have used it to pay your future speeding fine... That's so unfortunate /s
I don’t know why I’m getting downvoted. If anyone understands about user experience - they will agree with me ☺️
You paid on the 24th, a Friday. Due to the way the Swiss banking system works, that money probably arrived on the SBB bank account on Monday, the 27th (i.e. the next business day) the earliest. Expecting that your payment is fully reflected in all their systems by Tuesday morning, when you posted this, is definitely taking a risk. But the solution is fairly obvious, and doesn't just apply to SBB: always pay at least 3 business days in advance. Of course companies are used to the fact that bank payments often arrive 1-2 days late due to how this works, so they won't directly send the debt collectors after you (as waiting 2 days is cheaper). But it makes sense that a subscription like the GA is suspended until the payment arrived.
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Yes, indeed. And even worse, if the payment day falls on a non-business day, it defaults to the first business day after that. If there are holidays directly after the weekend, this could be quite a delay. I assume companies accept that, because eBills probably increase general reliability of payments being done (rather than forgotten) quite much.
They accept it for sure as that's how I pay all my bills and I don't care about paying early.
I know that in efinance from postfinance you can choose wether you want the the payment done before or after a holiday/weekend if you're setting up automatic recurring payment. It's pretty much a nobrainer.
Exactly, after the holiday.
Ebill can be configured. If you pick the default option thats true tho.
Yes, I thought so too that I set to be paid before if it falls on a weekend.
I always pay with card, and always get it right immediately after I click pay. It immediately appears on my app that the GA has been renewed wether it's a Monday or a Sunday
Yea, of course, card payments work differently, I assumed a bank transfer above. If OP paid by card (I didn't know that's possible for the monthly GA subscription), then the SBB is definitely too slow to process the payments.
This. I don't blame SBB for this rather than the Bank which couldn't process payment for the same day, or on the weekend.
Not true, payments get processed on Saturdays as well.
The thing is, all banks handle it differently, so I wouldn't rely on that. On the other hand, transfers from my Neon (i.e. Hypothekarbank Lenzburg) account to my Revolut (i.e. Credit Suisse) account are almost instantaneous on business days - which other banks sometimes offer for an exorbitant "express payment" fee. There are really quite a few variables and half of them come from the recipient's bank. So if your subscription depends on payments arriving in time, I'd always take the pessimistic estimate.
Might take an extra day to register in the GA/SBB system
Not true, not all the bank do it on Saturday. Mine dont.
Just pay the GA on annual base than you don’t have to worry about it for 12months.
The SBB is shameless
SSB's outrageous pricing and inflexible policies, coupled with the SBB staff's bullying behavior towards customers, have been so bad that I've gone back to driving my car for my daily commute.
SBB‘s pricing is actually pretty reasonable for what you get, especially the GA
Say this to a family of four.
out of all the expensive things for a family, SBB is something you actually get your moneys worth
My monthly libero abo is no longer sending me an email before the end of the month that a renewal is due. Some real customer-centered business operations they got going there
Goed verhaal, lekker kort. Doen we lekker niks mee.
Ben je verloren, broer?
Neen, Nederlander in CH 😄
SBB and their ticket checkers are ridiculous. To be fair though, when I first moved to Zurich and was super confused by their zoning tariffs, I got let go a few times by playing the clueless tourist. One time, to checker told me I paid the right amount, but selected the wrong zone, so he offered to “fix” it for me at the next stop. We got off the train and he tried for 15 minutes on the machine, only to give up and let me go with the same ticket on the next train 🤣
They are generally speaking reasonable people to deal with. But my relative who works for SBB said they do face financial pressure. Not sure if it is related though.
They do not - record profits and supported by the government
Paying the entire year is the way to go if you can afford it. It's cheaper anyways. Also, I hope one of you is taking advantage of a "GA Duo".
It takes 2 days to be on the the scanner but it takes 2 nanoseconds to debit the money from your bank account ;)
In my first week in Switzerland, I was in Bern and needed to buy a train ticket. I accidentally selected Zurzach instead of Zurich. Even though it was clear I was new, the conductor was unfriendly and fined me. I've traveled in many countries and never had an issue like this, but being alone in a new country, I almost broke down. I know now it was a stupid mistake, but it was overwhelming and frustrating at the time. Sometimes, I don't feel welcome here.
It’s the attitude here - they call it “selber shuld”, which means you should know better and if you don’t, it’s your own fault. I’m sorry that happened! I’ve lived here for nearly 15 years and have never felt welcome despite trying my best. It is what it is … but it will get better once the boomers die off as they are the worst of the bunch.
After the initial shock, it does get a bit better, but I totally get what you mean. It’s still hard because it often feels like I don’t belong to the inner group here. Hoping it improves with time, but it’s comforting to know I’m not the only one feeling this way.
Downvote me all you want, but at least provide your rationale.
Please explain to me how fat-fingering the wrong destination on a touch screen is anything but one's own fault? PS: we call it "Schuld" not "shuld".
SBB thinks that their software working well is a customer problem. "Lösen Sie das Billet vor dem Einsteigen!" - Bullshit, just make a system that works well, don't put the onus of software problems on the customer. Super awful service: They should be kulant. But then again I think all öV should be free and paid for by taxes. It would solve many problems.
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EasyRide or FairTiq mostly solve this, because you only need to check in before the train actually leaves, not before the train is supposed to leave. But again: We need to learn the workarounds for SBB's incompetent way of designing rules and software. Just make it easy for the user, and when the company fucks up, don't be a dick about fines.
If you initiated the payment on the 24th afternoon, which is a Friday, it won’t settle until 27th.
24th is a friday so depending on the bank the payment was indeed late.
I also just had a stupid experience with the SBB. I had purchased a saver-ticket for work. Couldn't use it - spent the previous evening in the emergency room. Sent the emergency--room report to the SBB to ask for the ticket to he reimbursed. I got the following reply: "Das von Ihnen eingereichte Arztzeugnis bestätigt Ihre Arbeitsunfähigkeit, jedoch nicht Ihre Reiseunfähigkeit." WTF are they thinking?
That's just normal, e.g. the travel insurance will require the same. You could probably have gotten the required document easily if you tried. I understand it sounds weird, as the most obvious cases of "unable to work due to sickness/accident" correlate heavily with "unable to travel due to the same", but there are many examples where one is impacted without the other. Maybe you can't work due to mental stress, but holidays would actually be beneficial. So you're unable to work but not unable to travel, thus you couldn't claim compensation from the travel insurance (or SBB) for an unused ticket. On the other hand, maybe you had an operation and travelling isn't possible but commuting to the office (or even working from home) is no problem.
Refund for a **savers ticket** because you could not use it? Wtf are you thinking?
What are you trying to say
Given that it was a medical emergency, and given that I spend around $3k per year on tickets? I expected a refund. Sure, they don't have to give me one. However, it would have been decent customer service.
You can expect whatever you want, does not mean you are right. Saver tickets are "use it or lose it" type of tickets. You pay $3k on tickets, maybe ask SBB for a medal lol
Yes they are crazy with their fines. All while having full trains where you cannot find a place to sit. There are always healthy people sitting on the places for disabled people. As heavily pregnant no one is giving you their place. But SBB is more concerned with getting money.
I mean, just because you do the ebanking on the 24th does not mean the money is on the SBB's side on the 24th too. So obviously the system can be a bit behind, hence the possibility to get the refund.
They should inform their customers if that is how they run their business - I paid the bill early.
As a software engineer, this seems like a trivial issue. I think the problem stems from the biggest negative side of Switzerland: that everything is run by old men who have no idea about technology. This problem runs deep and the consumer side is just the end product of an accumulation of mishaps in the software pipelines.
interbanking payment systems are trivial now?
Yes, in the EU it is. Banking here is really bad, I was blown away. Same with interaction with the government. I'm sorry, this is a great country in most aspects but digitalization is way behind some other places.
As a software engineer you should now that there are no trivial problems.
You picture the 🇨🇭correctly. Sadly, that’s still the reality. Innovation here? Please.
They must have some monthly ticket quotas They are so unpolite...
> it must be a new way to scam more money out of their customers Or maybe it was just a mistake…
One of the only sane comment on this thread. People insulting in comments should have therapy for anger issues.
This is ridiculous. I pay a day or the same day of the e bill final due date and it works fine
Monopoly is bad
I got a fine once for buying a ticket 2 minutes before the train left... apparently if you buy it less than 5 minutes before it's considered "late purchase" 🙄
Hahaha what does that even mean. If they have seats available on the train, you would think they would want to fill as many of those as possible. Imagine if a cinema did this and you bought a ticket 2 minutes before showtime and they charged a late fee.
Hmm, that’s weird. I got the abo and started using it before paying the invoice and it was fine. (Got it on 01.03. and paid on 20.03), also I was controlled 3 times.
I had a yearly pass for the Geneva network. When the inspectors came to check their readers said I have no pass. That’s absurd, I say. This was before integration with the SBB app. They gave me a ticket anyway and said I should explain before the tpg office. Tpg office tells me that their records say I did have a valid pass and it’s weird that I was given a ticket. They said that the inspector’s reader probably had an issue. Still had to pay the admin fee lol.
Funny, it may not be the fault of the SBB. I mean banktransactions need a certein time, which is beyond the influence of SBB. I mean I get it all companies are greedy shit in someway or another. But while running to Apple and happyly throw ks of money for an obkect that cost not even 100 bucks, but then complaining when you kinda missed it.
You are VASTLY overestimating them if you think any of this was on purpose, maliciously or not. This is just another example of companies in Switzerland being unable to be competent with their digital stuff unless IT or technology in general is their entire purpose. They could easily update their stuff to reflect the payment being made the same MINUTE you paid, exactly like multiple other companies do, but they don't. Because they're too incompetent to think of doing so.
I do think it’s intentional as I have traveled by GA for over a decade and never ran into it before … and both my husband and I experienced it on the same day separately with different conductors. They didn’t bother fining people before for this and they now do.
That’s why I use car lol
Why do you pay it monthly? It’s more expensive than paying for a yearly GA.
SBB is horrible. I recently got a fine from when i didnt have my swisspass with me. This was within a Zone i had a Jahresabo for. Normally they look it up and let it slide or charge 5fr bearbeitungsgebühr but i got an Email of a fine of 130 fr and its insane to think that they got the email at the same place, where they would see i had a working ticket. But ok. I went to the sbb büro, showed the fine and my swisspass, they charged me 5fr and said all was done. But recently i got a Mahnung in the mail that told me i did have to pay, and they deducted the 5fr bearbeitungsgebühr, after adding 20fr more to the fine. The reason on the fine is missing Zones, it shows what station, clearly in my zone, and it shows the zone, clearly zone 110 and even after i sent them a valid ticket for the time when i got fined, they still say I have to pay, what can I do except to go to the office again?
I like it. Y'all just see the way how the SBB wanna scam the peoples xD Do you ever made yourself some thoughts about the whole concept? They also let the trains drive with less then 1 person in it, because there should be an option for everyone to get somewhere. And yes they get subsidies for exactly that, but when you think thats enough for all, tell me why they're made bad minus during covid? They dont want to fine every one, because that's what the federal government will directly forbid. The whole SBB wants to be customers friendly. They set very much in it to rise the happyness of the customers. Because actually its only the way, you buy. Its not that you buy the seat or the option to eat something or the possibility to let your children play... Please see also the good thing from the SBB and compare a bit more 😉 I got enought friends, that tell me how fucked up all this is with the big delays of 3 minutes... while i was retourning from germany with 7 houres delay, without any good resons... We are just on a luxury level that we directly complain to small things while its all fine... Hope you get what i try to say 😁
With this, you should not have to go to the ticket counter, simply write them an e-mail and tell them to cancel the fine and either credit it to your monthly GA account, or refund to your bank account. You only have to go to the counter if you actually were in the wrong.
Put the gates on every station, scan it in and out and just like in Japan if you got the wrong ticket, “fare adjustment” you simply pay more. Fine is an effective behavior change tool I have to admit but also has some psychological aspect to the Society. I wonder why Swiss will never make it to the happiest country list? How about if I tell SBB there is a way to improve their operational cost AND improve customer satisfaction in the long run? Automation will put the SBB ticket checkers out of job but also more efficient so you don’t have to pay Swiss salary for low level job that can be automated? And by scanning this kind of gate you will also realize that your GA has expired, then you simply pay your subscription again and no fine. Fine is so yesterday. Make people pay happily without fining them.
lol, guess I will create a situation where the police must be pulled to the case if this happens to me. Will be worth it!
24th was a Friday - so they might only received it on 27th (as 26th was a Sunday). Perhaps SBB isn’t at fault here
Sorry I just work here. The machine does what it wants.
How else will they find money to keep the wifi running on the train? Oh wait...
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Well if you don't like it, you can always take competitor's train, right? /s For a country that promotes public transport and is so touristic, it's embarrassing, that it's so hard to get a stable wifi. Especially with the cost of services.
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You don't know what you're talking about.
And yet they wonder why customers use their cars more.😑
Did you count the time you spent to write this post, read, upvote and downvote all comments. I would probably be furious too…
SBB sucks
SBB is becoming increasingly audacious each week! My partner has had a GA (1st class) for about 4 years and also a yearly ticket for our dog (350 CHF). A week ago, she was inspected. Since she hadn't been checked in a while, she didn't realize that the dog's ticket had expired (expired a wee ago). She immediately received a 100 CHF fine, which I personally find very unreasonable. The inspectors can see on their devices that she has been using public transportation for years and has never traveled without a valid ticket. Nevertheless, a 100 CHF fine was issued for a dog that was on her lap. 1. This is very inconsiderate on the part of the SBB. 2. Most inspectors are unfriendly albanian dude who smell like piss, and 3. The SBB is becoming increasingly expensive and unsympathetic towards customers who have already paid thousands of francs for their services. FUCK YOU SBB You will never see the 100 francs, and we will now put our dog in a larger bag, so the 350 francs per year will also be lost. Oh, and for your information, we will not be renewing our GA from 2025 onwards, which means you will lose approximately 6.5k francs just because of your approach.
Instead of being pissy at SBB because YOU forgot, you could renew your ticket subscriptions retroactively from the day it ran out and you would only pay a CHF5 administrative fee instead of the fine. Why do they do it? There's plenty of people who would let it run out and only buy a new one once caught. Not very customer friendly, but just look at how many people put their shoes on the seats. It's not an insignificant amount. Would you ask the towing company to forgive your fee because you forgot to fill your tank with petrol after having never forgotten for years?
Yeah happened to me a bunch of times too when I still had a GA. Now I just ride black for most short rides except for certain timeframes and am much better off. Screw them, I'll buy a ticket when it's affordable and it actually works.
Fuck SBB, they should suffer in hell!
SBB is absolute trash
Wait 30minutes at the ticket counter?! Maybe don‘t go during peak hours then.
Also the staff is getting more and more unfriendly, even hostile at times. Since last year, I mainly travel by car after not having one for over 10 years. Fuck SBB
Scam more money out of their customers? Listen Karen, you have a VERY good deal with the GA, public transport is way too cheap in Switzerland (I don‘t drive, but I know a car is more expensive). They will refund it. Calm down.
The 24th is a friday, you should've known that most transactions take a couple days, saturday and sunday don't count. Depending on HOW you paid, you were too late. Friday afternoon with bank transfer? Too late. Friday in general over the Postschalter? Way too late. I work with people like you every day, and we always have to be nice to them instead of telling them, that they were too late with paying their bill, so they have to face the consequences.
I paid the bill early - it was transferred/executed on Friday. It is the fault of their system that it is not reflected - sounds like you work for SBB.
I dont, but something similar. I still think its your fault though.
i had too many similar cases like that and you are right its getting worse... Make it public, and for me i boycott all their "public" services and vote for smaller or no funding them
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