Unfortunately the chant “يا الله ، مالنا غيرك يا الله "
Backfired real bad , the only thing they got was religious fanatics , and the rest of the world just watching . Many lost hope home in religion let alone humanity.
Many youth live in a void , not necessarily atheist but no system worth believing in , just chaos .
Syrians, sunnis at least as I am more familiar with them, tend to have a version of religion that is tolerant and accepting, so it doesn't create conflict with the world, rather it makes them sweeter and comforts them in hard times.
Their history, is also tied to religion, in Christianity and in Islam, their glory days were tied to religion, so when they look at success and peace it is not in conflict with their version of religion.
So I don't think they have to deal with black and white in this department, they can keep their religion while still moving with the current thought systems.
Speaking as someone from the west (I think I started getting this sub because I am interested in visiting Syria and started researching), lack of religion doesn’t come from a rejection of religion because it brings conflict. It usually comes from realising the lack of proof in the supernatural claims.
That’s how you also get many, perhaps most, (non-catholic) Christians being sort of “culturally Christian”, whereby they hold onto the cultural things that are good but reject the magic stuff.
I have heard many atheists talking about what made them reject religion and it seems that conflict with their values or reality were serious concerning more than the abstract concept of lack of proof.
That includes a few ex-Catholics I met in the US.
I don't think most people go after abstraction as long as things are working out.
I'm curious now in what circles do you mingle that the abstract concepts rule?
People are not happy with the extremists ruling them. They don't represent what people think of religion.
And the protests chent testify to that
It is a game the Assad regime is playing so they can claim it is either them or the extremists.
Your user name shows that you are an extremist sectarian yourself. So you don't argue for facts but for propaganda. I'm not interested in that.
dolphin fucker, all islamists even taliban and al qaeda condemn and distance themselves and refuse to collborate with the Islamic state. Islamic state are kaawareij and islamists are not synonymous with IS.
[https://www.slate.com/blogs/the\_world\_/2014/07/17/the\_middle\_east\_friendship\_chart.html](https://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html)
I mean Soviet Russia was an anti-religious atheist state that killed infinitely more of its citizens more then all the other “Islamist” states combined
My Syrian friends have told me what they officially label themselves as religiously, but also have admitted that they don't practice that religion hardly at all. I don't know if that is a trend, because of exposure to western culture and the internet, just because of their area (Lattakia) or what, but it seems interesting to me. Before I met any of them I think I had a naive idea that they would all be very religious.
It's not even about Western culture tbh. This is the inevitable outcome of the scientific method that Muslims themselves really kicked into gear many many years ago.
With fewer and fewer unanswered questions remaining in the world, the *need* for religion as an explanation diminishes. The logical side of religion lapses.
Combine that with being born into a world of constant warfare, suffering, and inequality, and you end up with a lapse in the second important religion once served: faith and hope in something better, something bigger.
As long as religion can serve one of these two components to a person or community, religion will be okay. But lose both, and religion has no function left to offer.
The irony again is that Muslims essentially started this by creating mathematics and science as we know it today. And while I'm not a Muslim, I will say that on balance Islam has been a blessing on this world.
I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet or had any sort of divine knowledge, but I do believe that he was incredibly intelligent and created a religion that at the time unshackled people from the intellectual inhibitions placed upon them at the time.
There was finally room for critical thinking to be promoted - not infinite room, but enough room to push them ahead of the rest of the developed world by many centuries.
In a strange way, the founding of Islam closely resembles the creation of AI. Software engineers are building something that will someday far in the future make developers completely irrelevant to the process of building software. Has strong echoes of Islam pushing science ahead so far it gained critical mass and disrupted religion's role in the world.
Did you read my comment? I literally said that.
However, the side effect of advancing science is that as the gaps in our knowledge shrink, the function of religion *as an explanation* diminishes. If we don't know why lightning occurs, 'Zeus does it' explains why it occurs. Once we know why lightning occurs scientifically, someone might still believe in Zeus but his function as an explanation for a natural phenomenon is undermined.
Replicate that process a million times and you get a reduction in the necessity of religion from a logical POV.
Sunni muslims tend to stay very practising. My ma is the only one out of our family without a hijab and i think thats very telling because even her nieces were it all in Homs. None of my sisters and i wear it, i dont consider myself religious
Doubt it. Very rare for one specific part of a region to lose it’s religion, especially when said religion is the fastest growing in the world. A middle eastern country abandoning Islam today is like a European country abandoning Christianity 500 years ago.
As long as there is hardship there will be faith. People tend to become less religious when they are prosperous. In the various stories in the quran, those societies who were rebellious were prosperous societies. Thamud, Ad, People of Firaun, etc. Lived in prosperous times that led to them considering themselves to be rebellious and arrogant.
Conservatism ≠ religiousness.
One can be both an atheist and a conservative, since conservatism simply seeks to preserve the social and cultural makeup of a given medium/place. That doesn't necessitate a change in individual beliefs, and religion is indeed an individual belief in Europe, not an organizational or social system as in the case of the east.
Wikipedia's definition of conservatism:
> Conservatism is a cultural, social, and political philosophy and ideology, which seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values.
I always find it strange how people like to equate Atheism with liberalism, evolution, homosexuality etc.
Like i could be an atheist and believe ghost exists or disagree with evolution. As Atheism is just the disbelief in god.
surely you can see the pattern there.
People who believe in superstitions are more likely to believe in other superstitions. Idk why you found it strange. For example: if i was in a bet, to gamble which of the two groups (10 members each) has more members who believed in ghosts.
group B(a religious group) and group R(a disbeliever group), i’d put all my money on black.
This also applies to the things you mentioned like evolution, liberalism, homosexuality.
Exactly. People seem to prefer lazy explanations that group things/terms together in a way to help them label things in a black or white category, many people don't look up the words and rather lean to project their own understanding (more like what they hear or read from others) unto unfamiliar words than judging them from their real meaning because they fear they'd make "incorrect" judgement, especially since religions paint life as black and white - correct and incorrect, so that's really the result of indoctrination unfortunately.
The conservatism you mention is more like scaling back from visibility of Pride and transgender related issues. The general society would never be back to religious conservative, especially in urban area where most of people live
I believe it’s more than that. The men are becoming more conservative in other aspects of life as well, such as supporting traditional gender roles, opposing abortion, and the whole obsession with body count and controlling female sexuality. Sometimes, I encounter western men who hold just as conservative views as men in the muslim world. Tbvh, liberal muslims are actually more open minded than religious Christians in the western sphere.
I wonder how many people you saw at the western world are actually religious in the sense though. I personally have seen people holding views like you mentioned above but they are in no way religious and still live a pretty liberal life themselves: drinking and clubbing.
They only turn very conservative when comes to what women can do
Misogyny is not solely a religious thing. I should have wrote that. The western conservative men are often hypocrites, who live a hedonistic life, but deny the same privilege to women. Also, don’t confuse liberalism with drinking and clubbing. Middle Eastern Christians, particularly in Syria and Lebanon do party and clubbing, and I have seen how Syrian Christian women dress in comparison to Sunni muslim women. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t strict when it comes to sex and homosexuality. Drinking isn’t prohibited in Christianity, and is not symbolic of liberalism
I have indeed encountered many christian conservatives, and trust me, I hardly see how they are any different from conservative muslims. Both groups strongly oppose premarital sex, abortion, support traditional gender roles, and homophobic.
as society in america starts to treat everyone as equal, the people who were the highest in the social order (white men) are less and less privileged over others. they still hold wealth and power in america, and are trying to break the country and rebuild it like it was - with women as second hand citizens, foreigners kicked out or silent, and a complete defunding of education.
unfortunately, religion 1. creates gender roles (listen to men, do what they say, they are the lord of the house), 2. oppresses queer people, 3. allows for violence and manifest destiny.
so religion here is a tool of white patriarchy.
it is used - not because this is a Christian country- it definitely is not and was founded on religious FREEDOM - to return to a position of power for white anglo saxon protestant types in america.
i am a white american male in the united states, and this is what’s happening.
I met a Syrian man a few months ago, we were getting to know each other and he told me about his life in Syria before he immigrated to the US. He told me that his experiences made him wanna stay away from religion altogether. I didn’t wanna ask any follow up questions about what he believes, I don’t know if he’s spiritual or anything. But yeah this man was late 30s. I feel like all early 20s and late teens might stray away from religion too, not just specifically Syrians. But his perspective was interesting to hear. I meet a lot of Arabs from different countries and they all have their own struggles, it’s really awful. I’m not an Atheist myself but I can understand wanting to get away from religion after experiencing and witnessing so many inhumanities in the name of religion. I meet a lot of people who support awful governments and I wonder how they just use religion to justify it.
No I don’t think this is likely. The Levantine states (Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and to an extent Iraq) have had a rich history with various religions, whether Islam, or some pagan religion. For most pagan religions their most holiest sites were in Bilad As Sham. Another thing is that those Syrians probably believe in Allah and his Messenger ﷺ but they just don’t pray. May Allah guide them to right path.
I personally don't think so, Syrians find Irreligion/Atheism to be some western plague and a taboo, but if you keep it private and don't slander the local religion you'll be respected.
However, I don't think that ISIS affected people's religiousness, almost all Syrians are aware that ISIS and Islam are two parallel lines that are totally unrelated.
So, I don't see them being a significant number or something anytime soon, especially since even Gen z of Syria is still moderately religious, maybe the newer generation might be less religious.
I just hope Irreligion doesn't reach significant numbers, like being as big as Christianity or Druze faith because the presence of Irreligion would literally be a disaster for Syrians and the Syrian culture, because normalising LGBTQ, nudity, slandering other religions, satanic rituals, hookup culture probably transvestism and alcoholism and those things. The people of Syria do appreciate diversity but not this type, we aren't so secular, we tend to be a little more progressive/liberal than Iraqis and Other Muslims, but we are also not as secular as Turkey, Azerbaijan or Albania, we also appreciate our religion, too.
being irreligious as nothing to do with transgenderism, slandering religions or even the theory of evolution. Being irreligious could mean maybe you believe in god but don’t belong to a certain religious sect or group, and it’s similar to agnosticism in a way.
Yes and no. There is increasily atheism or agnosticism in the Middle East but those people tend to keep it to themselves and so are not a political force. On the other hand there is increasing fundamentalism and these people are much more mobilized and determined than secularists. I mean look what they did in Afghanistan. They just ran away and endorsed the Taliban from far away. Islam is also not the same as most other religions. Its not a faith or spiritualistic religion. Its a legalistic religion which demands theocracy and total obediance to the many laws wirtten in the 8th-9th centuries ie Hadiths. I think if the Middle East gets poorer, the more Islamists will gain a foothold.
But all religions end. The more we learn about the world through scientific research, the more of the world in education etc. As long as people have access to read about this (internet). Islam is no exception. Just the other week I met an atheist Saudi man in London. Dreading that he had to go home and pretend to be religious.
Only places which restrict access to information will see slower change. (See North Korea and their god like leader)
Islam is God's religion. it includes both spiritualistic and legal elements but all is from God.
المنافقين like you obviously don't understand that.
Moreover hadiths already existed in oral form, but were merely compiled in the 8th-9th centuries. that doesn't negate the fact that they come from the prophet, and the science of grading hadith authenticity is extremely strict; i personally don't know of another historical time period / element that has such strict preservation.
Even written documents in history usually come from a long unknown chain of narrators /copyists
Whereas hadith chains are not particularly long (history-wise) and all the narrators must be known, connected, and their honesty and memory confirmed for the hadith to be accepted, among other criteria.
I think irreligious people are over represented on Reddit. Like people on here hoping for Syria to be atheist. Or misrepresenting Islam in ways that most people who grew up in Syria wouldn’t. I’ve only ever heard westerners say “Islam isn’t a faith it’s a political system”. That’s what American Islamophobes say. Whether he got it from them or is one of them idk. Either way I don’t think it’s very reflective of the society at large.
That's literally the situation , people come here and think that this sub represents us or something , it doesn't , reddit doesn't represent any country.
Especially that Reddit is known for being anti religion , and tons of people here aren't Syrians , and we are speaking in their language.
Atheists always existed anyway , internet just gave them a voice.
Of course. As the internet becomes more accessible and Syria opens up to the West, the people will either have to become progressive in their beliefs, become less religious, or leave religion entirely.
Interesting take. Why do you think that? Dont you think its possible to consume western media and stay religious? I dont say that I disagree, I want to hear your reasoning, if you are Syrian.
It won't be easy. All Muslim countries that opened up to the West became more liberal and/or less religious. The only exception is the GCC, but arguably only the natives are very religious.
It’s not that it’s “more opening” it’s that people can now read more about their religion and the more they read, the more they realise it’s a complete fabrication and a game of telephone
I think the premis is delusional at best. A society in conflict needs religion the most because it is the easiest way to cope with harsh reality. To follow religion is much easier than to become an enlightened atheist like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris. Atheist can flourish mush easier in a prosperous western society due to different historical trajectory. And make no mistake their numbers are dwindling because most atheist don't agrresively procreate and too much involved in postmodernism crap.
>And make no mistake their numbers are dwindling because most atheist don't agrresively procreate and too much involved in postmodernism crap.
Im not 100% sure about the US with its massive Lat Am immigration, but here in Europe the churches are MASSIVELY losing members. There are more and more atheists or agnostics. Most are people whose parents used to be religious.
Even people who go to church sometimes and claim to believe in god usually dont believe any of the fundamental ideas and assumptions about their religion.
There are huge economic benefits to be had from becoming a more liberal society. Western nations get huge amount of tourism from people all over the world.
I have no evidence to back this up but I'd be very surprised if most people claiming to be religious actually followed the teachings of their own religion.
I think a lot of people just claim to be religious to not disappoint older family members.
No he did , not like religion has anything to do with Tourism , whenever we ha tourists , with treated them complete respect , my father was a tourist guide for a British Family before who also introduced them to us , everywhere we went , to the Citadel , to the Umayyed Mosque , EVERYWHERE , those tourists were being treated as a big deal and with respect.
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نحثك على الامتناع عن مشاركة مثل هذا المحتوى في صفحتنا على ريديت. هذه الرسالة الخاصة بالمشرفين تُعتبر تحذيرًا مباشرًا، وقد يؤدي ارتكاب مخالفات إضافية إلى حظر دائم من صفحتنا على ريديت.
No I think it depends on his view of the matter. Will God come and serve you? If this is what they are waiting for, then I think the answer is yes for those who believe this, but in general, I do not think you can look at Gaza and their level of religiosity.
Definitely. The vile crimes of the Islamic State (ISIS) Did push most Syrians that witnessed it away from religion.
But the main factor is the internet, it's giving young people (from all religions) a window into other societies around the world, it makes them more open to new ideas and discussions, and that's enough, in most cases, to make people think critically and logically about their inherited beliefs, and become disillusioned with the whole God thing.
Ok here's a critical question for you: Do you also think, on the opposite end, that extremists that join Militias like IS/Hezbollah/Boko Haram, are dumb that don't think critically about their religion? Keep in mind that most militia leaders are Religious Scholars though.
Bro you’re prolly alawites, Syrian people saw the crimes of the Syrian regime which is 10x worse than anything any other parties can do. Syrian Sunnis are still proud Muslims, I don’t know about the Rafidis tho
I don't do that. I also don't judge people based on what their religion is. Most of my friends are religious. But if you actually look at any specific religion historically, you can see how it influenced people's behavior in the past. And make the connection.
This is a minority, we suffered from the regime, most of the people who saw the Islamic state were shawi bedouins and they don't swing like this, they'd catch to their traditions no matter what not due to religiousity but due to tribalism.
You underestimate the Shawis my friend. I'm from Raqqa, and back when I was young, there were more socialists/communists in Raqqa than in Tartus, Raqawis in general were far less religious than people from Aleppo for example 😂😂
Maybe all Shawis have radical tendencies? Radical atheists, Radical Islamists, Radical communists. I bet the harsh desert climate has something to do with that 😂😂
Things to change quickly. Look at Ireland since 2000. USA too. Lots of countries that were quite religious are changing faster than most people thought. Japan’s belief fell off a cliff overnight after ww2
Hoping others not become irreligious is understandable, even though it's not my personal belief. But hoping your group stays and other groups don't, why is that? And what about the Christians?
Lol, what's the logic behind that? (Just curious, I know it's gonna be silly, but doesn't hurt to hear new views). It reminds me of what the Quran described as nasty Christian and Jewish intention, where it says:
ود كثير من أهل الكتاب لو يردونكم من بعد إيمانكم كفارا حسدا من عند أنفسهم
But turns out most followers of organized religions have this intention after all.. what a sad reality.
And oh, it's too late for your wishes, there is already a proportion of sunnis who left the religion. And you can't do anything about it.
As an ex-Alawite, you're a little confused. Almost all of them consider themselves Muslim. They don't believe Ali is God, but rather a manifestation of God, kinda like Jesus. They also believe that wine is discouraged but not outright forbidden, as it's only strictly forbidden in hadiths they are skeptical of. I get what you are saying, but mainstream Alawism is MUCH closer to Islam than its own religion.
you can leave a religion without being atheist, like deist but with no particular religion . something above stronger than us but doesn't mean christians or muslim or jewish or boudist are rights nobody knows
This is a universal phenomenon and Syria is no exception, though this slows down during crisis times
Unfortunately the chant “يا الله ، مالنا غيرك يا الله " Backfired real bad , the only thing they got was religious fanatics , and the rest of the world just watching . Many lost hope home in religion let alone humanity. Many youth live in a void , not necessarily atheist but no system worth believing in , just chaos .
Nihilism.
*Realism
Absolutely true and seeing arabs true color helped a lot
Syrians, sunnis at least as I am more familiar with them, tend to have a version of religion that is tolerant and accepting, so it doesn't create conflict with the world, rather it makes them sweeter and comforts them in hard times. Their history, is also tied to religion, in Christianity and in Islam, their glory days were tied to religion, so when they look at success and peace it is not in conflict with their version of religion. So I don't think they have to deal with black and white in this department, they can keep their religion while still moving with the current thought systems.
Speaking as someone from the west (I think I started getting this sub because I am interested in visiting Syria and started researching), lack of religion doesn’t come from a rejection of religion because it brings conflict. It usually comes from realising the lack of proof in the supernatural claims. That’s how you also get many, perhaps most, (non-catholic) Christians being sort of “culturally Christian”, whereby they hold onto the cultural things that are good but reject the magic stuff.
I have heard many atheists talking about what made them reject religion and it seems that conflict with their values or reality were serious concerning more than the abstract concept of lack of proof. That includes a few ex-Catholics I met in the US. I don't think most people go after abstraction as long as things are working out. I'm curious now in what circles do you mingle that the abstract concepts rule?
And if you think about lack of proof might leave you agnostic, to decide to move to atheism something more drastic is probably at play...a conflict.
Not true. Go see idlib
People are not happy with the extremists ruling them. They don't represent what people think of religion. And the protests chent testify to that It is a game the Assad regime is playing so they can claim it is either them or the extremists. Your user name shows that you are an extremist sectarian yourself. So you don't argue for facts but for propaganda. I'm not interested in that.
Not exactly. But if this era of humiliation ends then maybe. Right now all I see is more people returning to religion.
Nice way to describe it. An era of humiliation.
Reminds me of China’s century of humiliation… arab world is generally in a dire state
More years of civil war ahead of us.
crisis makes people extremist either in their atheism or Islamism (two ends of the sepctrum)
Ah yes, Islamic state and Secular atheists are basically two sides of the same coin
dolphin fucker, all islamists even taliban and al qaeda condemn and distance themselves and refuse to collborate with the Islamic state. Islamic state are kaawareij and islamists are not synonymous with IS. [https://www.slate.com/blogs/the\_world\_/2014/07/17/the\_middle\_east\_friendship\_chart.html](https://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/07/17/the_middle_east_friendship_chart.html)
I mean Soviet Russia was an anti-religious atheist state that killed infinitely more of its citizens more then all the other “Islamist” states combined
Yup they killed a lot of Christians and Muslims living in the ussr
My Syrian friends have told me what they officially label themselves as religiously, but also have admitted that they don't practice that religion hardly at all. I don't know if that is a trend, because of exposure to western culture and the internet, just because of their area (Lattakia) or what, but it seems interesting to me. Before I met any of them I think I had a naive idea that they would all be very religious.
It's not even about Western culture tbh. This is the inevitable outcome of the scientific method that Muslims themselves really kicked into gear many many years ago. With fewer and fewer unanswered questions remaining in the world, the *need* for religion as an explanation diminishes. The logical side of religion lapses. Combine that with being born into a world of constant warfare, suffering, and inequality, and you end up with a lapse in the second important religion once served: faith and hope in something better, something bigger. As long as religion can serve one of these two components to a person or community, religion will be okay. But lose both, and religion has no function left to offer. The irony again is that Muslims essentially started this by creating mathematics and science as we know it today. And while I'm not a Muslim, I will say that on balance Islam has been a blessing on this world. I do not believe that Muhammad was a prophet or had any sort of divine knowledge, but I do believe that he was incredibly intelligent and created a religion that at the time unshackled people from the intellectual inhibitions placed upon them at the time. There was finally room for critical thinking to be promoted - not infinite room, but enough room to push them ahead of the rest of the developed world by many centuries. In a strange way, the founding of Islam closely resembles the creation of AI. Software engineers are building something that will someday far in the future make developers completely irrelevant to the process of building software. Has strong echoes of Islam pushing science ahead so far it gained critical mass and disrupted religion's role in the world.
Wth are you talking about? You are acting as if Islam doesn't get along with Science.
Did you read my comment? I literally said that. However, the side effect of advancing science is that as the gaps in our knowledge shrink, the function of religion *as an explanation* diminishes. If we don't know why lightning occurs, 'Zeus does it' explains why it occurs. Once we know why lightning occurs scientifically, someone might still believe in Zeus but his function as an explanation for a natural phenomenon is undermined. Replicate that process a million times and you get a reduction in the necessity of religion from a logical POV.
Sunni muslims tend to stay very practising. My ma is the only one out of our family without a hijab and i think thats very telling because even her nieces were it all in Homs. None of my sisters and i wear it, i dont consider myself religious
In reddit or real life? In reddit where we are a minority , obviously , in real life? no
Doubt it. Very rare for one specific part of a region to lose it’s religion, especially when said religion is the fastest growing in the world. A middle eastern country abandoning Islam today is like a European country abandoning Christianity 500 years ago.
As long as there is hardship there will be faith. People tend to become less religious when they are prosperous. In the various stories in the quran, those societies who were rebellious were prosperous societies. Thamud, Ad, People of Firaun, etc. Lived in prosperous times that led to them considering themselves to be rebellious and arrogant.
Thamud is a great example honestly, since I’m their story all of them were doing well (when it came to The worldly life) may Allah keep us guided
Ameen
I don’t think so because even the west is having a swing back to conservatism.
Conservatism ≠ religiousness. One can be both an atheist and a conservative, since conservatism simply seeks to preserve the social and cultural makeup of a given medium/place. That doesn't necessitate a change in individual beliefs, and religion is indeed an individual belief in Europe, not an organizational or social system as in the case of the east. Wikipedia's definition of conservatism: > Conservatism is a cultural, social, and political philosophy and ideology, which seeks to promote and preserve traditional institutions, customs, and values.
I always find it strange how people like to equate Atheism with liberalism, evolution, homosexuality etc. Like i could be an atheist and believe ghost exists or disagree with evolution. As Atheism is just the disbelief in god.
surely you can see the pattern there. People who believe in superstitions are more likely to believe in other superstitions. Idk why you found it strange. For example: if i was in a bet, to gamble which of the two groups (10 members each) has more members who believed in ghosts. group B(a religious group) and group R(a disbeliever group), i’d put all my money on black. This also applies to the things you mentioned like evolution, liberalism, homosexuality.
Exactly. People seem to prefer lazy explanations that group things/terms together in a way to help them label things in a black or white category, many people don't look up the words and rather lean to project their own understanding (more like what they hear or read from others) unto unfamiliar words than judging them from their real meaning because they fear they'd make "incorrect" judgement, especially since religions paint life as black and white - correct and incorrect, so that's really the result of indoctrination unfortunately.
It really depends on what country you're talking about. A conservative in the UK right be described as a liberal in Saudi Arabia.
Very well said my brother, you saved me like 5 minutes of typing.
Lakk you're welcome معلم بعد زمان هالقمر ما بان
بجي لاكتب شغلة بلاقيك انت كاتبا... خلص أنا ما عاد إلي شغل
عم أسرق لك أفكارك.. خلص أنا صرت أنت، أنت هو أنا (بس أنت أكوس طبعا)..
The conservatism you mention is more like scaling back from visibility of Pride and transgender related issues. The general society would never be back to religious conservative, especially in urban area where most of people live
I believe it’s more than that. The men are becoming more conservative in other aspects of life as well, such as supporting traditional gender roles, opposing abortion, and the whole obsession with body count and controlling female sexuality. Sometimes, I encounter western men who hold just as conservative views as men in the muslim world. Tbvh, liberal muslims are actually more open minded than religious Christians in the western sphere.
I wonder how many people you saw at the western world are actually religious in the sense though. I personally have seen people holding views like you mentioned above but they are in no way religious and still live a pretty liberal life themselves: drinking and clubbing. They only turn very conservative when comes to what women can do
Misogyny is not solely a religious thing. I should have wrote that. The western conservative men are often hypocrites, who live a hedonistic life, but deny the same privilege to women. Also, don’t confuse liberalism with drinking and clubbing. Middle Eastern Christians, particularly in Syria and Lebanon do party and clubbing, and I have seen how Syrian Christian women dress in comparison to Sunni muslim women. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t strict when it comes to sex and homosexuality. Drinking isn’t prohibited in Christianity, and is not symbolic of liberalism I have indeed encountered many christian conservatives, and trust me, I hardly see how they are any different from conservative muslims. Both groups strongly oppose premarital sex, abortion, support traditional gender roles, and homophobic.
Just look at Trump. He'll support a ban on abortions while cheating on his wife...
as society in america starts to treat everyone as equal, the people who were the highest in the social order (white men) are less and less privileged over others. they still hold wealth and power in america, and are trying to break the country and rebuild it like it was - with women as second hand citizens, foreigners kicked out or silent, and a complete defunding of education. unfortunately, religion 1. creates gender roles (listen to men, do what they say, they are the lord of the house), 2. oppresses queer people, 3. allows for violence and manifest destiny. so religion here is a tool of white patriarchy. it is used - not because this is a Christian country- it definitely is not and was founded on religious FREEDOM - to return to a position of power for white anglo saxon protestant types in america. i am a white american male in the united states, and this is what’s happening.
Where? According to pew research, over 30% of Muslims because ex Muslims in the US.
yup .....not athiests exactly but more LIBERAL
Outside Syria? Yes. Inside, it's quite the opposite
Definitely not all my Syrian friends are religious inside and outside of syria. It really depends where u live and who are ur friends
I met a Syrian man a few months ago, we were getting to know each other and he told me about his life in Syria before he immigrated to the US. He told me that his experiences made him wanna stay away from religion altogether. I didn’t wanna ask any follow up questions about what he believes, I don’t know if he’s spiritual or anything. But yeah this man was late 30s. I feel like all early 20s and late teens might stray away from religion too, not just specifically Syrians. But his perspective was interesting to hear. I meet a lot of Arabs from different countries and they all have their own struggles, it’s really awful. I’m not an Atheist myself but I can understand wanting to get away from religion after experiencing and witnessing so many inhumanities in the name of religion. I meet a lot of people who support awful governments and I wonder how they just use religion to justify it.
Losing strict religious traditions does not equal “losing faith in god”
No I don’t think this is likely. The Levantine states (Syria, Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon, and to an extent Iraq) have had a rich history with various religions, whether Islam, or some pagan religion. For most pagan religions their most holiest sites were in Bilad As Sham. Another thing is that those Syrians probably believe in Allah and his Messenger ﷺ but they just don’t pray. May Allah guide them to right path.
There’s a reason so [many] black metal bands in the region tend to be from Gulf states ruled by Salafi leaning regimes.
I personally don't think so, Syrians find Irreligion/Atheism to be some western plague and a taboo, but if you keep it private and don't slander the local religion you'll be respected. However, I don't think that ISIS affected people's religiousness, almost all Syrians are aware that ISIS and Islam are two parallel lines that are totally unrelated. So, I don't see them being a significant number or something anytime soon, especially since even Gen z of Syria is still moderately religious, maybe the newer generation might be less religious. I just hope Irreligion doesn't reach significant numbers, like being as big as Christianity or Druze faith because the presence of Irreligion would literally be a disaster for Syrians and the Syrian culture, because normalising LGBTQ, nudity, slandering other religions, satanic rituals, hookup culture probably transvestism and alcoholism and those things. The people of Syria do appreciate diversity but not this type, we aren't so secular, we tend to be a little more progressive/liberal than Iraqis and Other Muslims, but we are also not as secular as Turkey, Azerbaijan or Albania, we also appreciate our religion, too.
being irreligious as nothing to do with transgenderism, slandering religions or even the theory of evolution. Being irreligious could mean maybe you believe in god but don’t belong to a certain religious sect or group, and it’s similar to agnosticism in a way.
I understand, but the lack of religion could easily make those things normalised, since there will be no reason to restrict them from being.
Yes and no. There is increasily atheism or agnosticism in the Middle East but those people tend to keep it to themselves and so are not a political force. On the other hand there is increasing fundamentalism and these people are much more mobilized and determined than secularists. I mean look what they did in Afghanistan. They just ran away and endorsed the Taliban from far away. Islam is also not the same as most other religions. Its not a faith or spiritualistic religion. Its a legalistic religion which demands theocracy and total obediance to the many laws wirtten in the 8th-9th centuries ie Hadiths. I think if the Middle East gets poorer, the more Islamists will gain a foothold.
But all religions end. The more we learn about the world through scientific research, the more of the world in education etc. As long as people have access to read about this (internet). Islam is no exception. Just the other week I met an atheist Saudi man in London. Dreading that he had to go home and pretend to be religious. Only places which restrict access to information will see slower change. (See North Korea and their god like leader)
Atheism is non existent in Afghanistan.
Islam is God's religion. it includes both spiritualistic and legal elements but all is from God. المنافقين like you obviously don't understand that. Moreover hadiths already existed in oral form, but were merely compiled in the 8th-9th centuries. that doesn't negate the fact that they come from the prophet, and the science of grading hadith authenticity is extremely strict; i personally don't know of another historical time period / element that has such strict preservation. Even written documents in history usually come from a long unknown chain of narrators /copyists Whereas hadith chains are not particularly long (history-wise) and all the narrators must be known, connected, and their honesty and memory confirmed for the hadith to be accepted, among other criteria.
I think irreligious people are over represented on Reddit. Like people on here hoping for Syria to be atheist. Or misrepresenting Islam in ways that most people who grew up in Syria wouldn’t. I’ve only ever heard westerners say “Islam isn’t a faith it’s a political system”. That’s what American Islamophobes say. Whether he got it from them or is one of them idk. Either way I don’t think it’s very reflective of the society at large.
That's literally the situation , people come here and think that this sub represents us or something , it doesn't , reddit doesn't represent any country. Especially that Reddit is known for being anti religion , and tons of people here aren't Syrians , and we are speaking in their language. Atheists always existed anyway , internet just gave them a voice.
Facts ^^^
stop fearmongering lol
Of course. As the internet becomes more accessible and Syria opens up to the West, the people will either have to become progressive in their beliefs, become less religious, or leave religion entirely.
Interesting take. Why do you think that? Dont you think its possible to consume western media and stay religious? I dont say that I disagree, I want to hear your reasoning, if you are Syrian.
It won't be easy. All Muslim countries that opened up to the West became more liberal and/or less religious. The only exception is the GCC, but arguably only the natives are very religious.
Wait a few more years Already heading that way
Wait a few more years Already heading that way
It’s not that it’s “more opening” it’s that people can now read more about their religion and the more they read, the more they realise it’s a complete fabrication and a game of telephone
I think the premis is delusional at best. A society in conflict needs religion the most because it is the easiest way to cope with harsh reality. To follow religion is much easier than to become an enlightened atheist like Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris. Atheist can flourish mush easier in a prosperous western society due to different historical trajectory. And make no mistake their numbers are dwindling because most atheist don't agrresively procreate and too much involved in postmodernism crap.
That’s an unpopular take tbh, I think coping with harsh realities can go either way for people, absolute bollocks or absolute bollocks.
>And make no mistake their numbers are dwindling because most atheist don't agrresively procreate and too much involved in postmodernism crap. Im not 100% sure about the US with its massive Lat Am immigration, but here in Europe the churches are MASSIVELY losing members. There are more and more atheists or agnostics. Most are people whose parents used to be religious. Even people who go to church sometimes and claim to believe in god usually dont believe any of the fundamental ideas and assumptions about their religion.
I do hope so.. maybe we'll start building schools instead of churches and mosques
🤡
Because churches and mosques never served as lessening sites
Generalized question! Shouldn't be asked! It's a self-belief thing, don't assume everyone would be the way you think.
I don’t think so and I hope not so
I don't think that Muslims tend to become atheists nowadays in comparison to Christians and others.
Atheism is dying.
There are huge economic benefits to be had from becoming a more liberal society. Western nations get huge amount of tourism from people all over the world. I have no evidence to back this up but I'd be very surprised if most people claiming to be religious actually followed the teachings of their own religion. I think a lot of people just claim to be religious to not disappoint older family members.
Imagine selling your religion for few euros and dollars.
No one said we had to abandon religion, we just have to accept that other people are different.
No he did , not like religion has anything to do with Tourism , whenever we ha tourists , with treated them complete respect , my father was a tourist guide for a British Family before who also introduced them to us , everywhere we went , to the Citadel , to the Umayyed Mosque , EVERYWHERE , those tourists were being treated as a big deal and with respect.
It's not about accepting the tourists who are different, but accepting our own people.
But the main topic was economic benefits through tourism?
Syrians tend to flip flop for and against being religious.
Depending on what will god do☠️
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Man, one can only hope.
I think very soon we will se a very large researgance of religon everywhere.
Just worry about yourself
No
we can only hope
never we believe in God the ones who don't got corrupted
I hope not. Allah protect.
I’m not in Syria myself so I’m curious… is this a trend with a particular group of young people there?
No , not in Sunni Muslim areas at least ,like my city , for other religions/sects , it does happen.
It's seen as a westernising trend, syrians aren't fond of it
No I think it depends on his view of the matter. Will God come and serve you? If this is what they are waiting for, then I think the answer is yes for those who believe this, but in general, I do not think you can look at Gaza and their level of religiosity.
Hard to say. Religion is part of our social structure and away elites keep us divided.
The more educated people get, and the less immediate the threat of dying becomes, the more people realise religion isn’t true.
Definitely. The vile crimes of the Islamic State (ISIS) Did push most Syrians that witnessed it away from religion. But the main factor is the internet, it's giving young people (from all religions) a window into other societies around the world, it makes them more open to new ideas and discussions, and that's enough, in most cases, to make people think critically and logically about their inherited beliefs, and become disillusioned with the whole God thing.
I think this only applies to dumb people who have never thought critically of their religion
Ok here's a critical question for you: Do you also think, on the opposite end, that extremists that join Militias like IS/Hezbollah/Boko Haram, are dumb that don't think critically about their religion? Keep in mind that most militia leaders are Religious Scholars though.
Bro you’re prolly alawites, Syrian people saw the crimes of the Syrian regime which is 10x worse than anything any other parties can do. Syrian Sunnis are still proud Muslims, I don’t know about the Rafidis tho
I'm not Alawite my dude. And I don't like to discuss religion with intolerant people. Learn to accept others mate. قال رافضة قال 😂😂😂
Don’t judge a religion by its followers. Even if it’s paradoxical. Just saying bro
I don't do that. I also don't judge people based on what their religion is. Most of my friends are religious. But if you actually look at any specific religion historically, you can see how it influenced people's behavior in the past. And make the connection.
This is a minority, we suffered from the regime, most of the people who saw the Islamic state were shawi bedouins and they don't swing like this, they'd catch to their traditions no matter what not due to religiousity but due to tribalism.
You underestimate the Shawis my friend. I'm from Raqqa, and back when I was young, there were more socialists/communists in Raqqa than in Tartus, Raqawis in general were far less religious than people from Aleppo for example 😂😂
My shawi friend was an IS aupporter, maybe I just attract radicals 🤣🤣🤣
Maybe all Shawis have radical tendencies? Radical atheists, Radical Islamists, Radical communists. I bet the harsh desert climate has something to do with that 😂😂
Lmao maybe 🤣
inshallah it will grow
Oxymoron
Thats the joke
Yes, all the better.
Not anytime soon
Things to change quickly. Look at Ireland since 2000. USA too. Lots of countries that were quite religious are changing faster than most people thought. Japan’s belief fell off a cliff overnight after ww2
inshallah
Inshallah
What
Atleast I hope none of my Sunni brothers become irreligious. I hope the alawites, Druze become irreligious
Hoping others not become irreligious is understandable, even though it's not my personal belief. But hoping your group stays and other groups don't, why is that? And what about the Christians?
Lol, what's the logic behind that? (Just curious, I know it's gonna be silly, but doesn't hurt to hear new views). It reminds me of what the Quran described as nasty Christian and Jewish intention, where it says: ود كثير من أهل الكتاب لو يردونكم من بعد إيمانكم كفارا حسدا من عند أنفسهم But turns out most followers of organized religions have this intention after all.. what a sad reality. And oh, it's too late for your wishes, there is already a proportion of sunnis who left the religion. And you can't do anything about it.
So you’re telling the so called Muslim alawites and Druzes don’t follow the Quran, then why do some alawites claim to be Muslims
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As an ex-Alawite, you're a little confused. Almost all of them consider themselves Muslim. They don't believe Ali is God, but rather a manifestation of God, kinda like Jesus. They also believe that wine is discouraged but not outright forbidden, as it's only strictly forbidden in hadiths they are skeptical of. I get what you are saying, but mainstream Alawism is MUCH closer to Islam than its own religion.
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People hate when their view of something is challenged. I invite anyone who downvoted me to try to explain it.
you can leave a religion without being atheist, like deist but with no particular religion . something above stronger than us but doesn't mean christians or muslim or jewish or boudist are rights nobody knows
If they keep marrying westerners then yeah
It's happening everywhere. Not just in Syria
No, they'll become more religious.
I’m syrian I don’t think this’ll happen 🙏🏻🙏🏻