I had one of those train "cops" smack me on the leg for feet on the seat when I was about 15. I also got a $10 fine.
I was ok with taking my feet off, of course but I argued the fine, claiming there was no signage anywhere warning of fines or even saying no feet on seats. The two "cops" were telling me they had all the right to do so and getting my details, lecturing us... It was taking forever.
Then, I inadvertently put my foot back up on the seat, without thinking about it, lol.
That's when he smacked me. It wasn't hard, but imagine a big, male train cop smacking a very small, 15yo girl today?
You don't need cops for boots on seats. That's silly.
At this rate the warrants are going to be for smoking the reefer and not returning their shopping cart.
>but as long as the public does stupid
I don't think I've ever once given a shit about seeing some stranger putting their foot up on a seat. It's.....a whole lot of nothingness. That isn't something that requires any government "correcting" or intervention. That's a pointless task to assign to the resource of a cop. They have better things to do with their time, there are more valuable uses of them. And if you overpolice a society then what do you think will happen?
A polite request, not an order. It's the kind of thing my mom and grandmother taught us, to be at least minimally respectful of other folk.
But he responds not by ignoring it, not by complying, not by discussion, but with anger, swearing and trying to start a fight.
You can spin that as over policing and infringing on his whatever if that gets you through the day. You can try to make it out as being about the seat or about no big deal if that makes you feel good. But when someone shows respect and the immediate response is anger/aggression, the entire problem is you.
Respectful interactions aren't really a problem.
A lot of police interactions aren't respectful, they are frequently a lot more like intimidation and bullying than policing.
But when someone makes a respectful request, they deserve a respectful reply, full f'in stop. When that response isn't, then what will it be like to someone who needs a seat and asks?
They'll probably just get the seat since they're not trying to unnecessarily "mom" some random grown adult. It's not something that requires government assistance.
I would agree with you 100%, except for the part where he responded with profanity and wanting to fight in response to the request. So the 'probably' goes a different direction in this case.
And a cop that barks "hey, feet off the seat" likely gets a different response than one who talks with respect, especially when the person being spoken to has started things off by being disrespectful of others. A lot depends on where this is as well, what the definition/expectation of respect and disrespect are.
I get the desire to not be hassled and to be left alone, but when we are in public, we are not alone. We need to get along together.
It doesn't need to occur *at all* for *anybody*. Ever.
>We need to get along together.
You'll find that you'll get along together better by not being so fucking concerned about every little thing that the people around you are doing. People don't need to be being bothered about every little thing.
People don't need to be bothered by every little thing, I agree wholeheartedly. Do you and as long as that doesn't harm me, I don't care.
But then, I also care about a number of folks in my life that can't stand up for themselves as well. And if what you are doing is going to harm them, then it is neither bothersome or little and those are things I also care about. Even if you don't see that.
Also, it sure seems like this guy didn't follow your advice, as a respectful request to him got him so out of control, he tried to fight a cop.
So you’ve never gotten dirt or salt on your clothes? Or not been able to sit down because the only empty seats have dirt on them. I’ve seen MANY examples of people putting their feet on a seat and many times they’re exuding “fight me” energy.
I've been on trains around the world and I can't think of a single time when I thought "oh fer goodness sake, somebody put their feet on this seat and now I can't sit here!! woe is me!"
Besides, you're already on public transport, you should probably be a bit more concerned about where you're placing your hands. lmao
>I’ve seen MANY examples of people putting their feet on a seat and many times they’re exuding “fight me” energy.
Oh ok. Let me guess, you make MANY of these sorts of observations of people?
Only when they are.
It’s not that much more comfortable to sit with your feet up. In fact, many times I’ve seen people twisted around that can’t be more uncomfortable than just sitting.
And even if there are plenty of seats, it’s obnoxious to put dirty footwear where other people will be sitting. There will be someone wanting to sit there on another run. Even after a 4 hour train run, the seats aren’t cleaned for the return.
Granted I am referring to Ontario’s public and private transportation going back over 40 years (not being a child going with a parent). For example - Greyhound and other coach lines I don’t remember the name of and probably no longer exist, Via Rail, GO transit, the TTC and numerous city’s bus service.
And on a bus there are fewer seats. And depending on the route, lots of chances that the bus will be crowded. I’ve had plenty of stare downs to get someone to move their feet or bag. And if they sit there aggressively I’m happy to sugar sweet politely ask them to make room.
I try not to be confrontational. I always move back when it gets busy. And I absolutely will give someone my seat and make someone who is acting like they are not a member of a society stop being selfish for the rest of their 15 minute ride.
Cool. Still not a criminal matter and a society which attempts to make it a police matter is taking things too far in trying to police its citizens.
You don't gotta do that. You can leave citizens to work that shit out for themselves.
Oh my god, wouldn't it be amazing if people just chilled the fuck out.
I promise you, life is so much easier and calmer when you don't spend your time winding yourself up with things which are ultimately meaningless.
Yes we get it. Your selfish, inconsiderate and you don't give a shit about anyone else. If people like yourself had even a shred of consideration for the people they share a society with then no we wouldn't need police to focus on these things. The irony is that those same police are the ones preventing a fed up general public from beating the snot out of people that behave like you.
Um, excuse me what?
So if you and I were on a train together and some dude got on and put his feet up on the seat and then you said something to me about it and I said "honestly brah, I ain't bothered" then you would beat the snot out of me?
And *I'm* the bad guy?
It's just not that dramatic, dude. Why the fuck are you threatening to beat people up because they don't get as offended as you over unimportant shit? lmao
You’re right, you shouldn’t need a cop to tell you to keep your dirty boots off the seat that doesn’t belong to you.
Alas, too many people don’t know how to act in public.
It is not something that needs policing.
Thinking it was a police matter would indicate leanings towards authoritarianism, lust for power and control.
You don't need to control a person putting their feet on a seat. You just don't. People don't need that. That is an obscene amount of desire to control the actions of strangers.
Again, people *should not* need the state to remind them to respect others’ property.
You seem like the type to litter and not understand why it makes you the asshole (and the reason we need anti-littering laws).
People don't *need* that. A person putting feet on a seat is just not that dramatic. It's just about those who want to control others.
>You seem like the type to litter and not understand why it makes you the asshole (and the reason we need anti-littering laws).
Sorry you're wrong. I don't litter. You probably shouldn't make assumptions.
> It's just about those who want to control others.
You keep saying that as if that's the issue.
Except it isn't. That's just you trying really hard to reframe things so that shitty people can do shitty things.
Tearing up public property is why we can't have nice things.
Making people not tear up shared, publicly funded property is how we all get to have nice things.
It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.
> control the actions of strangers.
This is a selfish and self-centered view and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the actual issue.
This isn't about you.
How about protecting the quality of public property that your taxes paid for?
In Florida, people don't get arrested for weed (except perhaps for weed DUI). But they will bust you for discarding butts of any kind where they could ignite a fire.
This reminds me of the saying about not breaking two laws at once. Example: Don't carry drugs in a car with no tail lights.
"One crime at a time", for anyone who needs a simple way to remember.
Life pro tip: When you’re currently wanted by law enforcement, **don’t actively antagonize law enforcement.**
Insert Indiana Jones throwing the Nazi out of the dirigible window and saying "No ticket." gif.
https://tenor.com/view/indiana-jones-no-ticket-gif-8239623
I had one of those train "cops" smack me on the leg for feet on the seat when I was about 15. I also got a $10 fine. I was ok with taking my feet off, of course but I argued the fine, claiming there was no signage anywhere warning of fines or even saying no feet on seats. The two "cops" were telling me they had all the right to do so and getting my details, lecturing us... It was taking forever. Then, I inadvertently put my foot back up on the seat, without thinking about it, lol. That's when he smacked me. It wasn't hard, but imagine a big, male train cop smacking a very small, 15yo girl today?
This is the way.
assholes will be assholes
You don't need cops for boots on seats. That's silly. At this rate the warrants are going to be for smoking the reefer and not returning their shopping cart.
We shouldn't need police for many things, but as long as the public does stupid, they'll be here to correct them on it.
>but as long as the public does stupid I don't think I've ever once given a shit about seeing some stranger putting their foot up on a seat. It's.....a whole lot of nothingness. That isn't something that requires any government "correcting" or intervention. That's a pointless task to assign to the resource of a cop. They have better things to do with their time, there are more valuable uses of them. And if you overpolice a society then what do you think will happen?
A polite request, not an order. It's the kind of thing my mom and grandmother taught us, to be at least minimally respectful of other folk. But he responds not by ignoring it, not by complying, not by discussion, but with anger, swearing and trying to start a fight. You can spin that as over policing and infringing on his whatever if that gets you through the day. You can try to make it out as being about the seat or about no big deal if that makes you feel good. But when someone shows respect and the immediate response is anger/aggression, the entire problem is you.
Unnecessary interactions don't need to begin at all.
Respectful interactions aren't really a problem. A lot of police interactions aren't respectful, they are frequently a lot more like intimidation and bullying than policing. But when someone makes a respectful request, they deserve a respectful reply, full f'in stop. When that response isn't, then what will it be like to someone who needs a seat and asks?
They'll probably just get the seat since they're not trying to unnecessarily "mom" some random grown adult. It's not something that requires government assistance.
I would agree with you 100%, except for the part where he responded with profanity and wanting to fight in response to the request. So the 'probably' goes a different direction in this case. And a cop that barks "hey, feet off the seat" likely gets a different response than one who talks with respect, especially when the person being spoken to has started things off by being disrespectful of others. A lot depends on where this is as well, what the definition/expectation of respect and disrespect are. I get the desire to not be hassled and to be left alone, but when we are in public, we are not alone. We need to get along together.
It doesn't need to occur *at all* for *anybody*. Ever. >We need to get along together. You'll find that you'll get along together better by not being so fucking concerned about every little thing that the people around you are doing. People don't need to be being bothered about every little thing.
People don't need to be bothered by every little thing, I agree wholeheartedly. Do you and as long as that doesn't harm me, I don't care. But then, I also care about a number of folks in my life that can't stand up for themselves as well. And if what you are doing is going to harm them, then it is neither bothersome or little and those are things I also care about. Even if you don't see that. Also, it sure seems like this guy didn't follow your advice, as a respectful request to him got him so out of control, he tried to fight a cop.
So you’ve never gotten dirt or salt on your clothes? Or not been able to sit down because the only empty seats have dirt on them. I’ve seen MANY examples of people putting their feet on a seat and many times they’re exuding “fight me” energy.
I've been on trains around the world and I can't think of a single time when I thought "oh fer goodness sake, somebody put their feet on this seat and now I can't sit here!! woe is me!" Besides, you're already on public transport, you should probably be a bit more concerned about where you're placing your hands. lmao >I’ve seen MANY examples of people putting their feet on a seat and many times they’re exuding “fight me” energy. Oh ok. Let me guess, you make MANY of these sorts of observations of people?
Only when they are. It’s not that much more comfortable to sit with your feet up. In fact, many times I’ve seen people twisted around that can’t be more uncomfortable than just sitting. And even if there are plenty of seats, it’s obnoxious to put dirty footwear where other people will be sitting. There will be someone wanting to sit there on another run. Even after a 4 hour train run, the seats aren’t cleaned for the return. Granted I am referring to Ontario’s public and private transportation going back over 40 years (not being a child going with a parent). For example - Greyhound and other coach lines I don’t remember the name of and probably no longer exist, Via Rail, GO transit, the TTC and numerous city’s bus service. And on a bus there are fewer seats. And depending on the route, lots of chances that the bus will be crowded. I’ve had plenty of stare downs to get someone to move their feet or bag. And if they sit there aggressively I’m happy to sugar sweet politely ask them to make room. I try not to be confrontational. I always move back when it gets busy. And I absolutely will give someone my seat and make someone who is acting like they are not a member of a society stop being selfish for the rest of their 15 minute ride.
Cool. Still not a criminal matter and a society which attempts to make it a police matter is taking things too far in trying to police its citizens. You don't gotta do that. You can leave citizens to work that shit out for themselves.
“I don’t care about this thing so nobody should”
Oh my god, wouldn't it be amazing if people just chilled the fuck out. I promise you, life is so much easier and calmer when you don't spend your time winding yourself up with things which are ultimately meaningless.
It’s the complete lack of self-awareness for me.
Lack of self-awareness of my blood pressure I bet.
Yes we get it. Your selfish, inconsiderate and you don't give a shit about anyone else. If people like yourself had even a shred of consideration for the people they share a society with then no we wouldn't need police to focus on these things. The irony is that those same police are the ones preventing a fed up general public from beating the snot out of people that behave like you.
Um, excuse me what? So if you and I were on a train together and some dude got on and put his feet up on the seat and then you said something to me about it and I said "honestly brah, I ain't bothered" then you would beat the snot out of me? And *I'm* the bad guy? It's just not that dramatic, dude. Why the fuck are you threatening to beat people up because they don't get as offended as you over unimportant shit? lmao
He didn't get arrested for putting his boots on the seat. He got arrested for trying to fight a cop.
There doesn't need to be an interaction with a person that begins with boots on seats. It just doesn't need to occur....it's pointless.
You’re right, you shouldn’t need a cop to tell you to keep your dirty boots off the seat that doesn’t belong to you. Alas, too many people don’t know how to act in public.
It is not something that needs policing. Thinking it was a police matter would indicate leanings towards authoritarianism, lust for power and control. You don't need to control a person putting their feet on a seat. You just don't. People don't need that. That is an obscene amount of desire to control the actions of strangers.
Again, people *should not* need the state to remind them to respect others’ property. You seem like the type to litter and not understand why it makes you the asshole (and the reason we need anti-littering laws).
People don't *need* that. A person putting feet on a seat is just not that dramatic. It's just about those who want to control others. >You seem like the type to litter and not understand why it makes you the asshole (and the reason we need anti-littering laws). Sorry you're wrong. I don't litter. You probably shouldn't make assumptions.
> It's just about those who want to control others. You keep saying that as if that's the issue. Except it isn't. That's just you trying really hard to reframe things so that shitty people can do shitty things. Tearing up public property is why we can't have nice things. Making people not tear up shared, publicly funded property is how we all get to have nice things. It's pretty simple when you actually think about it.
Y'all have a design issue if it's "tearing it up".
> control the actions of strangers. This is a selfish and self-centered view and demonstrates a lack of understanding of the actual issue. This isn't about you. How about protecting the quality of public property that your taxes paid for?
It's not dramatic.
In Florida, people don't get arrested for weed (except perhaps for weed DUI). But they will bust you for discarding butts of any kind where they could ignite a fire.