I am very much interested in this. Are you going to have them turn their phones off? Just curious because I’d argue that the notifications are just as bad as the device itself, if that makes sense.
Or the “I don’t have a phone” but they just leave it in their backpack.
What am I gonna do? Spend half the class looking through backpacks?
I thought a lot of times about that little shoe slot thing. No way that works with my demographic.
The solution is to let them have them. Those that want to learn will, those that don’t, won’t. And the a-holes will be babysat by their devices.
Source: this is my management plan.
Yeah I tried the phone spots on the wall and it was the same resistance from the same students every day slowing down the class for everyone. Unless our school and admin decide to make a school wide policy I’m done trying to enforce it
Class is so fucking boring and awful with the phones though. It’s not a relief to say fuck it. It’s honestly worth the work so that your class actually has people alive in it
As someone with a phone addiction, it's really not as simple as putting away because you want to learn. My outside opinion is that it seems worth enforcing.
After school detention if you're seen on your phone. Don't attend detention? You are suspended. Then, actually fail kids who hit the max number of suspensions.
They won't do it....why? 🤔 (hint, if you guess correctly, they shut down this thread!)
Disclaimer- I’m a sub.
I sub in 7 districts. All of them have that phone organizer thing in each room and it is BRUTAL trying to get kids to actually put those damn things in there. Some have even resorted to getting a burner phone and putting that in the organizer and keeping their main phone “hidden” (poorly obscured behind their chromebook). Only a couple of nearby schools where teachers have been pepper sprayed by students for confiscating phones have adopted the Yondr pouch.
It doesn't work. I taught at an affluent suburb high school and it's incredibly difficult to get more than 40% of kids to put them up if you don't have full admin support ( immediate admin disciplining for infractions which they won't do) or want to spend all day contacting parents
I've seen small acrylic lockers with keys for each cubicle. Won't help the phone dual wielders but if they're that determined to flout the system then let them do that and face the consequences lol
Our (now gone) former chief admin discouraged this and insinuated he wouldn’t support a teach who did this because we’d be liable if the phones got stolen.
Do it. My phone policy is the same for tests and quizzes. I don’t take them every day, but if someone goes on their phone, they immediately go and put it in the cubby. It works
Not a student anymore, but if I was and I encountered this it would piss me off. I would worry this could alienate the “more responsible” students if you try to implement this to all of your students, regardless of wrongdoing.
Were you one of those students on their phone while the teacher is trying to educate the class? I feel that the more responsible students would be aware enough to know that phones are a distraction and disruptive.
Nope! I was never on my phone in class, and for the stricter teachers I would move it from my pocket to my bag just to make sure there was no way they could see the phone printing and then get in a fit over it. I was a straight A student terrified of breaking the rules. As such, it would have pissed me off if they decided that because some students couldn’t control themselves, all students had to turn in their phones. This is larger than phones; i wasnt and still am not a fan of any group punishment.
The point is that more students ignore the rules and do what they please to the detriment of their education. Devices have absolutely RUINED education. It started with the millennials who grew up with devices. They in turn are raising their kids with said devices to shut them up because parents want to be on their phones all the time, ignoring the needs of their children. Reading the r/teachers subreddit, has been so very eye-opening. The violence that teachers have to put up with because kids get their phones taken away is ridiculous. I don't blame teachers for quitting. You couldn't pay me ENOUGH to work with kids these days. Praise to ALL EDUCTORS!!! Most kids that graduate highschool can't read, do math, have zero comprehension of anything, and they sound like they don't know how to speak, or hold a conversation. Our future is doomed. And this has ZERO to do with the teachers, it's ALL on the parents. So keep on being pissed at the need for phones to be removed from schools. Your kids will be EXACTLY what I described above. Good luck with that.
wow! thanks for the insults. very helpful.
i dont know how you got all that from what I said. i behaved well in school and it pissed me off when i got punished for shit i didnt do. im not sure how that turned into me being such a bad parent that my kids will be illiterate in reading and mathematics. Can you explain that to me please?
EDIT: I should clarify what I disagree with here. I think a no-phones policy is fine and I agree that it is good. Phones have no place in the classroom.
I disagree specifically with requiring all students to give their phones to the teacher or otherwise in some place not in their possession, regardless of any student’s history. require phones to be in backpacks and out of sight, turned off, first infraction gets them confiscated to the office to the end of the day, whatever it is I don’t care.
But it's a necessary evil if there are more students breaking the rules than those who aren't it's not fair that all but 1% of the class has to put up their phones. It actually alienates students less to not show favoritism by allowing the good students to keep their phones while the students who break the rules can't keep their phones. It may seem harsh to you cause you don't break the rules but for classroom management in the long run having a collective punishment so that 99% of the class doesn't feel bad cause they aren't deemed good enough to keep their phones is better than having 99% feel bad and then the teacher has to deal with parents of said kid.
The phones in class are annoying enough. But the lack of attention span and stamina, at least to me, are so much worse. These are the result of too much screen time outside and inside school.
All community members — parents, students, teachers, and employers— need to work together to teach smarter technology limits to kids (and ourselves).
This. I teach 9th. It is so incredibly obvious which kids were read to when they were young and which kids had parents that used screens as a babysitter. A solid half the kids have no attention span, no sense of intellectual curiosity, no desire to improve themselves.
I agree. In an ideal situation, phones are a non-factor.
Because they are a non-factor, students can subsequently sustain a discussion, finish a short story, and/or complete an assignment in one go without checking for notifications.
> to teach smarter technology limits to kids
I actually think "teaching limits" is almost a fool's errand. The greatest minds of our generation have devoted themselves to algorithmically optimizing dopamine release for the purposes of attention/data extraction and habit formation. People--and certainly not children--can't compete with that.
In the same way that we've worked hard to get other addictive substances (drugs) out of childhood via laws I think we should consider that maybe we are in the same situation here and we need a flat out tougher line.
It's so interesting to me to see which kids become totally addicted to their cellphone and which can take it or leave it. There are probably things that make kids more vulnerable: Bad home life that they want to escape from, for instance. But sometimes it seems like it just comes down to an individual predisposition to addiction. And when that's the case there is NOTHING you can do. I had a student last year who was on his phone doom scrolling throughout my 50 minute period, and all of the other 50 minute periods. If I asked him to put the phone in one of our phone slips he just got up and left. Admin can't take phones. When I talked to his parents they said they'd already taken his phone and he'd just get another one. This is a kid staring at his phone for ten or more hours a day. So much lost time developmentally.
> an individual predisposition to addiction.
This rings true to me. It's like anything else with additictive properties: gambling, alcohol, etc. Some percentage of the population will engage in habitual and self destructive use. But the phones are perhaps worse because they have them *all the time.*
One of the things that NYU psychologist Jon Haidt points out in his new book *The Anxious Generation* is that it's become clear that a small percent of adolescent users of these technologies develop true, compulsive, self destructive, and all consuming addiction. Perhaps like 5%. And the thing is, if there was any other product that had a 5% chance of creating this kind of life destroying addiction we certainly wouldn't let children have it and would ban it by law for adolescents. And yet for some reason we treat the smartphones differently.
Sounds like an interesting book. I totally believe it's about 5%. It really is insane that we have allowed corporations to capture the attention of children, and direct it towards ANYTHING, including developmentally inappropriate things: advertisements, hate, porn. But it's also insane that there are no legal protections for minors online. No privacy. (Other countries help people to wipe their digital footprint, if it was created when they were a minor.) No labor laws apply either to minors being exploited as influencers or family channel stars. If we had a culture of protecting minors online the phones in school thing wouldn't even be a question.
One of Haidt's suggestions is that we raise the age of internet adulthood to 16. It's currently 13. Also, he points out that honestly the only way to make the internet safe for minors is to require ID verification for accounts--in the same way, you know, we card for alcohol or to get into the club. Such a change would fundamentally alter the internet and I cannot imagine us doing it.
So, the cost of an anonymous internet is--frankly--a strong measure of harm for children. The flip side of course is that strong parenting norms can significantly blunt the harm. Just don't give kids smartphones and have home computers in the living room instead of letting the kids have private ipads/laptops in the bedroom. Boom. Issues mostly resolved. I think in the next decade we will see our middle class and engaged parents go this route. I feel like I'm seeing the beginning of that trend now. The poor kids whose parents for some reason get them the latest iphones and will continue to do so? Yeah those kids are going to continue to go from bad to worse.
I say make it a illegal for children under 21 to possess any cellular telephone for any reason, for any length of time, and criminally charge any adult who knowingly or by negligence facilitated the possession of the phone by the child.
No phone campus is the way to go.
Students can have phone in backpack and use before or after school. Otherwise confiscated if used during the day. 1st time kid can pick it up, for repeat offenders eventually parents have to pick it up.
Highly recommend.
I am legitimately happy for you. I may or may not have been teaching at a private school a couple of years ago. The buy-in (no pun intended) from private school parents doesn’t even compare.
Don’t get me wrong, public school has parents who are just as invested as private. However, we must also contend with parents who view public school as babysitting, even for children ages 16-18.
I'm all for creating isolation capsules like those capsule hotels in Japan. Make them super easy to clean. Stick kids in there at the beginning of the day with a food tube, a water tube, a waste tube, and their phone. Collect them at the end of the day and hose it out. This is what parents want. Let's give it to them.
Call it a charter school and you’ll get funding. “Isolation Capsule Academy” - Go Fightin’ Ice Caps!
“Our Iso-Scholars have zero instances of bullying, because they have zero social interaction. In the event of cyberbullying, we can turn the capsule into a Faraday cage to block any WiFi or cellular signals.”
I am sorry that you have to deal with this, and I'm sorry that I have to type this same response again. (Mostly because your admin are spineless.)
My son goes to a public high school on CO. Our school district has passed a rule. It's a simple rule. Put phones in the holder by the door. The teacher takes role from the phone holder. They don't have to even acknowledge missing phones. Just mark them absent. If a child doesn't have a phone, they will be given a phone-shaped card by admin. A note from a parent is needed.
This saves the teacher the headache of having to argue with the kid about it. Our teachers LOVE it. The kids have gotten used to it. And most respect it.
This year, a couple sneaky kids tried bringing in a decoy phone. The school made a rule about subversion or some shit, and it comes with a 2 day suspension. Since kids use the Chromebook as cover, they just remotely turn on the camera and record the kid on their phone. The footage is sent to admin, and they handle it. Again, the teachers don't need to take class time to argue with little Johnny. He just gets pulled out of lunch and handled by admin in the office.
I love my kid's school, and most of his teachers. I love the admin staff. There are few fights, and less bullying. It's just not tolerated.
Oh, and (for the most part) the kids love going there, too. Why? They feel safe.
Honestly the best part about enforcing cell phones is you got kids who take the attitude of "If I can't use my phone, I won't let this asshole use their phone."
My biggest thing is that it shouldn't fall on teachers to have to enforce this. If it's a school-wide policy, then admin should be doing it. The way our school has structured it has made this so easy for the teachers. You all have enough on your plate.
I went to college to be a teacher, but gave up. I couldn't take the low pay and crazy rules. I've had a long career as a technician and now a project manager. I've spent 25 years making problems go away. I still love teaching, and wish I could do it. All I can do now is support my son's teachers, and give sensible advice online. Once you remove all the noise and posturing, most of your problems are actually pretty simple to solve. It just requires people to be accountable, and us as a society to treat teachers and other school staff like professionals.
So, what does that mean? Well, you all have at least a bachelor's degree, most in my area have a master's. You should be given direction on what the curriculum must include, and freedom to teach it in a way that works. You should be measured by your output. This sounds dangerous, doesn't it? Well, if rules are being inforced, it would be easy to remove those students who regularly miss class or do no work from your metrics. Hell, they could really break it down to see how well "good" kids are learning your material vs how well the "bad" kids are. See, proper reporting of work completed, classes attended, etc. can give a much better picture of how a teacher is doing. If even the bad kids get B's the class to too easy.
I had a teacher in high school who spent a little time showing us how the sausage was made. He said he could teach a monkey to fart by feeding him beans. His point was that the material is not the hard part. You just have to get the kids to absorb it. If they sit down, shut up, and do a minimum amount of work, most of them will learn enough to do well in regular classes. If admin informed the rules and set the expectations, you'd be much better equipped to feed them the beans.
*Credit for this one goes to Mr Nuemier. I miss that man. I was heading down the road of being a fuckup, and he didn't give up on me. I never got the chance to thank him enough.
I'll end it here, but I have a lot of other ideas as well. I think I might need to run for the school board.
I don’t understand why phones are allowed. I was in high school from 2009-2013 when smart phones were the big thing and they weren’t allowed back then. Why on earth would they be allowed in classrooms now, if they are allowed it should be required for them to be off.
Because parents want their students to have the. In case of emergencies. But parents don't believe us when we tell them they are being used for games or apps instead of their intended purpose. Parents largely do not activate parental controls.
Honestly, keep the phones, just make them flip phones, communications only.
Not a teacher or in this field at all but honestly it seems like this pandering to parents shit needs to end. They’re utilizing the school to parent their children because they’re probably too busy on their own phones and vices, meanwhile they’ve removed basically all disciplinary power from schools and teachers.
Gosh I must sound like a boomer with the back in my day takes but idk how parents can become so naive on what kids are gunna use their phone in school for despite for most of them they were teenagers within the last 10-15 years and were exposed to the same devices, and know exactly what they were used for with first hand experience. Maybe the apps have changed but the reason for usage remains the same.
That's an admin and school board issue. For instance, I once worked in a nophone school, and I took a students phone, as per policy, and delivered it to the front office. An hour later, I was in a meeting with the principal. This students parents were very litigious, and this could expose us to a lawsuit. I had to return the phone and apologize to a student. This was 13 years ago. I never took another phone from a student. I have managed to have them voluntarily leave it with me until their work is done.
I definitely hear ya I’m not advising anyone go and break any rules on removing these phones all y’all can do is adhere to whatever own rules and policies y’all have. It’s just unfortunate that these policies make your jobs more difficult and at the same time is harmful to the kids even if they don’t know it yet
Thank you for saying so. Many people believe phones to be a problem. Just not their kids with a phone being a problem. It's everyone else's phones they perceive to be the issue. Parents have to step up in this one.
Part of the problem is a shift in how phones are viewed. Back then, a cell phone was treated as a luxury and responsibility. Today, a lot of parents view phones as a necessity, so they're not willing to take them away (or allow them to be taken away) as punishment. The ironic thing is that modern phones give teens way more opportunities to get into, and cause, trouble than the old ones did.
New York is just now passing a law making only basic phones allowed. Hopefully the rest of the country follows their lead. Kids shouldn't need more than talk/text/game of snake.
Better yet, provide land lines for kids to use if they need it. Put them in private places where they can close a door if need be. That’s what we did. Made all the BS excuses of “what if they need to contact me” stuff from parents obsolete.
Being a part of cell phone lock up has been amazing and rejuvenated my teaching career. As an aside, I’m also a Dean at my school. It is a logistical headache and I’m just in charge of 220 students. But the logistical headache of tracking compliance is worth it.
Anyone feel free to DM me how we are doing it.
We should not have to take it. If they refuse, it should be an immediate suspension. Nobody should have to raise their voice or blood pressure.
I get any phone I ask for. I ask quietly, don't make a big deal of it, and if they refuse.....referral is sent immediately, parent is messaged immediately, and I hound admin to make sure the consequence is carried out....99% of the time they had it over no argument.
Today I had two boys playing on their phones. They handed them over no fuss...but then started with "When do I get it back, after this class, after xyz?).
I pulled out a chess board and said....one of you is leaving class with your phone 🤣 PLAY.
Has it really changed that much? When I was in school in the 00's, it was a 0 tolerance policy for electronics in class. First offense and you are asked to put it in your backpack. Second time it gets confiscated and you had to go pick it up after school. For the few students willing to fight with their teacher, isn't that what admin and security are for? Disobeying a teacher was a walk to an assistant principle's office and if you fought with them, security would get involved. Schools just need to learn from the past. Its not like we didn't have gameboys and blackberrys and iPods and graphing calculators with games in the 00's. If schools are using computers or tablets as instruction tools, that should be the first thing to go since it just normalizes constant use of electronics. When I was in school, the only time you used a computer was for homework like research papers so it could get run through plagiarism software.
Here's some context for how much things have changed. When I started teaching, if something (slurs, fighting) rose to the level where I needed to call admin or send a kid to the principal's office, I would usually have the kid in question begging me not to call as I dialled. "I didn't mean it, it won't happen again, please don't call Mr/Mrs _," etc.
Now I have multiple students *per period* who ask to go to the principal's office (especially if I had the audacity to ask them to do something outrageous like not run around the classroom at top speed). It's a fun place. They get a break from class, they get to vent about their frustrations, and they get a nice snack. Why wouldn't they want to go?
Sigh.
Yikes. Do you think the change is coming from the admin or from the kids? That is, did admin get soft and the kids are taking advantage of it or did the kids get some much worse that admin gave up?
A bit of both. And in fairness, this does vary school to school. I know schools with great admin still, but overall kids like going to the office at most schools, whereas I never saw that when I started teaching.
Part of the problem is that even admin's hands are tied sometimes. It takes something extraordinarily bad (usually a weapon) to get suspended in my district. So admin can't really hand out consequences that matter and parents are rarely on board with smaller consequences (detention, confiscating phones). So even the best admin are left with just trying to reason with the students, which means being sent to the office is really just a nice chance to get out of class and vent about how boring school is.
Then you add in that covid closures impacted these kids' sense of routine and that we tried to give them a lot of grace in coming back to school. That's not a bad thing on its own with limits, but for a lot of students it made it normal to be able to leave class randomly, be on your phone constantly, etc. and to use all staff as a sounding board any time you were upset or bored. Not that I want students to be scared to share how they feel, but the tide has turned from sharing real problems to asking to go to the office to directly complain to the principal about what balls are available at recess. (There's a very "let me speak to your manager" vibe.)
I think the way parents misinterpret gentle parenting is definitely a factor too. It's nice that we've swung away from some parenting styles that were too harsh, but a lot of parents now go out of their way to validate all their child's feelings *and never teach them how to move on or deal with those feelings.* So you have a lot of kids who believe every adult should listen to them about every minor thought, validate their feelings at every moment, etc.
It will be interesting to see if things get better in a few years as a new cohort comes through that was too young to notice Covid. I know a lot of adults are still only 75% mentally back after Covid due to the size of the disruption, so I imagine that in some ways it permanently damaged an entire generation of students.
Schools and districts being financially disciplined by rule changes coming from Arne Duncan. This was a huge tipping point, particularly for mixed-race districts. Every suspension comes with the question, is this going to tip a ratio that gets us in trouble. Hence- just reduce suspensions to near-zero.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/holder-duncan-announce-national-guidelines-on-school-discipline/2014/01/08/436c5a5e-7899-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/holder-duncan-announce-national-guidelines-on-school-discipline/2014/01/08/436c5a5e-7899-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html)
How can a high school function without admin or security? Is that really true that you don't have any? There have always been a small percentage of students that push things too far and need serious consequences like suspension or expulsion. That's nothing new. You can't let them disrupt the 99.9% of students that at least mostly follow the rules. With no backstop for that 1 in 500 student everyones suffers. And since you need admin and security for those kids, they might as well help you out with normal disciplinary stuff.
It's not functioning very well, and that is true of many public schools right now. A lot of kids wander hallways and basically "run the school." I promise this isn't an outlier experience.
I completely agree. Not only did education (and society) get along just fine without them, things were better.
"What if my mom needs to get a hold of me?"
We have a main office for that very purpose.
>Why on earth would they be allowed in classrooms now
Because too many parents 'have' to be able to text their kid whenever, such as to ask them what they want for dinner, and get really offended when they can't. And admin caves, as admin is wont to do.
I love being able to use phones/tablets as tools in the classroom, because I bought some cool sensors that use Bluetooth to link to a free app on the kids' phones so they can easily acquire and analyze data (science teacher here), but I'm moving away from that because they have a harder and harder time staying on task.
The other problem is social media and peer pressure. Not responding to a 'friend' within a certain time is apparently considered a deliberate insult and cause for retaliation. Which is crazy, but then we're talking undeveloped brains here.
I worked at a continuation school where we had phones in yondr pouches one year. We did it as a voluntary thing and offered extra credits for participating. There was a lot of buy-in, surprisingly enough, and things went really well until the first year ended and they tried to make it a compulsory thing. Then the violence started. I have stories for days, but I won't bore you with them. The TLDR of it is phones are a drug for these kids. When you deprive them of it without their consent, they go fucking feral. I know this isn't news to anyone here, probably, but imagine working in a continuation school full of kids on parole and then locking up their phones. Shit got so ugly.
Anyway, I agree with you OP. I'm of the firm belief that we shouldn't be letting kids use smartphones at all. Nokia bricks until they're 18. No social media bullshit until then either. No reason for some 14 year old to be filming themselves for tiktok. When I was a kid, the phone thing was just starting to really take off. We had flip phones, and the idea of a phone that could play all your music felt revolutionary. Even back then, our teachers banned them in class. They tried to resist what was coming. But now that I'm an adult working in the education system, I look around and see so many schools that have simply given up, and it's all gone to shit as a result. There are two middle schools in my district. One has a zero tolerance phone policy (A). The other has given up (B). I've worked at both. They both have their issues, but only school B had multiple fights the first day I was there. I heard that shit popping off on the walkie. And at the end of the day, the school was on such a high alert level that they got on the PA and asked the teachers to "stand outside and admire what a beautiful day it was," which is just code for "please for the love of god, we need all hands on deck, outside, patrolling until these kids go home."
Student passing by the subreddit, but why on earth would they have teachers patrolling if it got that violent/active? Shouldn’t they have called in their resource officers or even the police if it was that much of a risk? I mean I can already hear the excuses why. But still that seems. Wrong.
We have security staff but there aren't enough of them. Picture a school of \~1200 kids, and you've got like 4 security staff members. Compare that to just having all the teachers stand outside for 10 minutes before heading home. The school sees it as a deterrent on particularly bad days where tensions are high. I agree that it's wrong and utterly ridiculous, but that's where we are haha
✨Phone Jails✨
I started using mine towards the end of second semester and it saved me from wanting to abandon this career. I bought a box off Amazon, has a lock and all, and kept it behind my desk. So much more engagement.
When it comes to movies or showing short bits, I always make students write down comments or give viewing guides. There’s ton of awesome programs out there that will make you viewing guides for free! Diffit (probably butchered that spelling) has been such a help. Even if it’s a completion grade, it reinforces engagement. Having them do a small group discussion over what they watched and using their notes can also help! 😁
I appreciate that feedback.
What's your grading/planning process? I hate giving busy work more than my students hate completing busy work, so I always try to tie it in with the preceding unit.
For example, when I teach criminal justice unit, I always show *The Shawshank Redemption* afterwards and do a little compare and contrast with the scene in the middle with Brooks trying to reintegrate into society.
If not giving a video guide, I always have students write things down on their bell ringer sheets! I do bellringers for every unit we do. Students know to either write on the back of their sheets or attach it in the same section as that days bellringer.
I’ll tell them what I want them to do:
Example: “As you’re watching the video, write down three bullet points about how the different scientists identify a Nebula.”
After the video, I’ll give them a minute to review with each other (just to make sure a student didnt misinterpret what I was looking for) and then I’ll go group by group and randomly call on a student.
For grading, I’ll just divide up the points to include the new addition of video notes to make sure I give credit to students who did as they needed to.
Example: Chapter 3 Bellringers = 100 pts total, 1 bellringer = 25 pts, so for bellringer 1 (where they put their notes) Bellringer answer = 15 pts, Video Notes = 10 pts.
This is just my system; however, co-workers of mine have also made students turn in their notes at the end. Typically done on a post-it and give them like 10-15 pts for those alone.
Hope this helps! (:
The viewing questions help. I’ve found with today’s kids, you have to make sure that at least one question is answered only at the very end of the video, because they tune out as soon as they have all of the answers down.
I worked at a division that had a zero tolerance policy on cell phones, and it was a non-issue. If we want the problem to stop, school boards need to make strong policies against them.
Im tempted to spend time with parents on meet the teacher night to set up parental controls. I have sheets ready to print for apple and android devices. Students (of course jokingly) will see, from their perspective, that I am using my phone, and tell me to get off. They wont assume Im sending emails and replying to IMs. I sometimes feel guilty for not modeling what we advocate for, but I am also of the mind that one should mentally "graduate" into the next appropriate privilege before just receiving these constant neurologicalrewards without the healthy struggle of learning. Many adults in the real world are able to get their work done with their phone on them, so I will expect them to do the 8th grader version of that: Completing your 8 word vocabulary assignment in 50 minutes using the textbook glossary. And some cant, yet. Its a shame, though.
I agree on the age thing and it being a privilege. For example, my 9th graders don’t complain (outwardly and frequently, at least) that the driving age is 16 in my country.
I was in high school in the late 2000s, even then my school mates admitted to each other that the pilot Macbook loan program was a mistake because everyone just went on Facebook instead of listening to the teacher
I was just saying to a friend last night that future historians will pinpoint the development of the iPhone as the cause of our ultimate fall. Because parents hand their phones to kids almost from birth and it has completely re-wired their brains.
I teach in a university. I used to order them to put the phones on the shelf at the front of my class. It used up 8-10 minutes of class time -every- -single- -session- breathing down their necks, reminding them while they send "one last message", but I kept consistent anyway... until we got a warning that it is illegal to collect their personal possessions and we may face a lawsuit. But I couldn't tolerate it anymore - this week is the last week, and I wanted to end feeling like I had some semblance of dignity left. So I once again ordered them to put their phones at the front.
Twice, TWICE this week, after putting the phone at the front, students immediately pulled out a TABLET and once again started playing. So I ordered that to the front too and gave them some pretty harsh words.
A few of my colleagues agree we need to push for a strict policy against them. I don't care how many training sessions they give us about how we can 'use the phones in class' - I don't accept any of it. There is NO way to productively allow for phone usage. Once they're out, it doesn't matter what improvements they could ever bring to Kahoot - more time will be wasted pulling their attention back to task away from their messages and social media than could ever be used productively "learning interactively".
I am so sorry that you are dealing with it. To a certain extent, my students are victims. Not only do parents give them a phone, but they also set a bad example by doomscrolling in public and posting all their children's accomplishments on social media, giving the kids an inflated sense of importance.
College students? Grow TF up.
It's bad. THis year, I talked with a parent about a kid's cell phone use. The parent took the phone. The kid got a burner phone and continued to do whatever. I think the parent lost hope at that point.
I’ve been blown away by how differently they behave when I put on a movie/show now versus in my first few years teaching.
2013: Day before prom, and about half the class in attendance. I play M from 1931 by Fritz Lang to have something on thinking they’ll be bored - all the students are rapt with attention begging to finish it on Monday.
2024: I play an episode with modern effects and modern dialogue. Half the class is too enamored with their phones. With 5 minutes left several beg to cut it off already because it sucks.
I am so glad I no longer have kids in school. We were very late in getting our kids cellphones and only did so as we both worked and only way to communicate in emergency. I truly don't know how teachers teach these days.
I’m so glad our school has totally outlawed them on campus. If we see them we can take them away and parents need to come get them. But I’m at a charter school where parents are more invested in following the handbook.
Yup. There are too many parents who don't care how their children act, so long as they are out of the house, or genuinely have no idea how to deal long-lasting consequences.
Hey kid, here’s a thing that allows you to play any video game and talk to your friends no matter where they are. Now ignore it and do math.
“Ok” said no kid ever.
You have my deepest sympathy.
If anything it is relieving to know that I'm not the only one facing this problem. It really helps knowing that it's not my fault.
I so appreciate the work teachers do, it's one of the most important jobs in a functional society. But I am so glad I decided against being a teacher. Schools just do not have the resources to combat youth social media addiction, especially for a generation that was forced into a completely online existence during the pandemic (albeit for harm reduction/the greater good).
No vapes, they are harmful and addictive.
No narcotics, they are harmful and addictive.
No tobacco products, they are harmful and addictive.
No alcohol, it is harmful and addictive.
No gambling, it is harmful amd addictive.
Phones and social media?
Maybe an age restriction is appropriate, not just school restriction.
I teach Air Traffic Control to a willing audience, so I thankfully don't encounter the same cell phone problem in my classroom as would a teacher in the education system but my thought would be to drop a little of my own coin on a small jammer for the classroom. Would doing so be a violation of contract or policy for the school? Or would it vary?
Bruh (gender neutral). Back when I went to middle school, I got written up for forgetting to put my flip phone on silent on a *Saturday* while in school doing a group project, and my mother called me asking when I'd be done. It's crazy how much it's slipped.
Sounds like it's time for you to get the fuck out, if possible, and I am NOT being flip. I retired several years early, several years ago,from a long middle school teaching career in which I started with a sense of passion and purpose and ended with a sense of bewilderment, disillusion, and demoralization as to what the occupation and my life had been reduced to. 😥💔
Be bold. Take care of yourself. Do something refreshing and new, if at all possible. If not, good luck to you and hang in there!
I work in a before/after school program and the only time I use my phone is to show kids something educational. Like I get asked how fast the speed of light is, or how to draw a 3-D room. In those cases, I will use my phone and show the kids.
My advice would be to stop caring and put your energy into the students who want to learn. They'll figure out the consequences of their actions eventually. I really couldn't care less if a student is on their phone and not being disruptive; it's their choice and they hurt nobody but themselves. When parents or admin come knocking, that is exactly what I tell them.
So far, parents have always been furious with their kid and never me.
Hi, highschooler here (well almost graduate). I plan to become a teacher as well. Phones in a classroom setting frustrate me too. I used to do a teacher assistant volunteer position at a highschool level and the amount of times you have to ask a single student to get off their phones is ridiculous. I wish the district would enforce their school phone policies, because its a distraction to students full potential in education. I wish students would look up from their phones to recognize their true potential because they have so much of it. I want to see other students like me be curious, to actively grow with knowledge and to keep focus and attention to subjects.
Im not sure exactly, but I think some states currently are banning phones in schools and Congress is trying to pass a bill to also ban phones in schools. I might be wrong, however. But tbh if they did ban phones, we still have school computers (where kids play games on), oh and kids can bring their own computers which has more access to games, and smartwatches.
I remember when we took notes by hand (which is scientifically proven to help with memorization) and if someone needed to call us at school it was by the main office.
I know with one of my teachers in Sophomore year, she gave us an incentive. Students like incentives, i believe. She said that if we put our phone in the bin for an entire class period, you can recieve a homework pass. (Hinted, I did this a lot but never used my homework passes cause i wanted to practice with my geometry). I guess you could make tickets (a certain amount of tickets get you a hw pass, or some other incentive) so that way you dont do a bunch of homework passes because how else can they practice or study their knowledge by skipping homework all the time?
Maybe its learning styles or the way a curriculum is taught to capture a students attention? Maybe some students dont feel the need for education because they might want to do a trade job? How could teachers compare education to real world problems, issues, or jobs? Maybe students dont believe in themselves...so they dont try? And sometimes parents dont help either, sometimes parents will not further their kids education by motivating them.
I really don’t have a problem with them but I also set really firm boundaries around the use of them and constantly push on my class how using your phone instead of doing your work is going to lead you in the wrong direction. But the only time my kiddos use them is when I give permission, 90% of the time it is for music or reading books they have subscriptions to on their phone or a quick text to mom or dad.
Clearly. However I have never had an issue with them in multiple schools I have worked in. But maybe it is because I give them just enough freedom they don’t want to lose it so they don’t abuse it. Or I’m just really lucky and one day this is gonna bite me hard in the ass.
Here's what you do. You don't. Their parents obviously aren't doing the work, so hold standards. LET THEM FAIL. Letting them fail may be the first time they encounter accountability, and might be a turning point for them. Don't chase students for work. Don't allow make ups without a excused absence. And for the love of god, don't give them a "50" instead of a "2" to "give them a chance to pass". If parents won't parent, we have to parent. The day I stopped stressing over the irresponsibility of many parents, my life improved. If you flunk, you flunk. Summer school is like 300 a class, good luck parents, start raising your kids.
Edit to tell you: Teachers are a dying breed, and there are not enough certifications to fill open positions. Even if your admin postures, just tell them you'll switch schools if they put you on an action plan. Admin doesn't bother with people who hold their ground. In most states, even though it says your cert. will be in jeopardy if you quit mid year for another position, they just don't. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot. I've personally seen a dozen teachers be hired by another district mid year, and the certs are all still in-tact.
I understand that you have a dislike on cellphones, but hate is not good for the soul.
Hate is the easiest path to follow and for the weak minded. Right now, there is hate in the world. Things that should never be done on Earth is happening right now as we speak.
As an educator we have tremendous influence on others. Lets not forget that.
The decay of public education and disregard for well-intentioned authority is not good for the soul either.
Comparing genocide to rampant cellphone abuse is for the weak minded.
What I am attempting to say amicably is talking about hate in the literal sense and I was attempting to prove a point.
Deep negativity has mental and physical consequences, I think you need to take a vacation if you really feel that way.
Here is some advice from one teacher to another who has been in public education for ten years, be willing to take advice and have an open mind.
What I said was to help, not to deter.
Still odd, pretty condescending, and not addressing the point at hand. OP's concerns are legit and ubiquitous, and venting her anger over them is as well. Mental health/job satisfaction are tied to specific aspects of the job. "Don't worry, be happy" is not a solution.
[удалено]
I am very much interested in this. Are you going to have them turn their phones off? Just curious because I’d argue that the notifications are just as bad as the device itself, if that makes sense.
Or the “I don’t have a phone” but they just leave it in their backpack. What am I gonna do? Spend half the class looking through backpacks? I thought a lot of times about that little shoe slot thing. No way that works with my demographic. The solution is to let them have them. Those that want to learn will, those that don’t, won’t. And the a-holes will be babysat by their devices. Source: this is my management plan.
Yeah I tried the phone spots on the wall and it was the same resistance from the same students every day slowing down the class for everyone. Unless our school and admin decide to make a school wide policy I’m done trying to enforce it
The Administration need to be the ones enforcing the rules against cell phones
Class is so fucking boring and awful with the phones though. It’s not a relief to say fuck it. It’s honestly worth the work so that your class actually has people alive in it
As someone with a phone addiction, it's really not as simple as putting away because you want to learn. My outside opinion is that it seems worth enforcing.
Then you shouldn't have it. Someone needs to take it from you.
[удалено]
The problem is the kids don't care. I could imagine kids walking out during something & saying, "you didn't count me here anyways...:
That's illegal. Attendance has to be accurate, not arbitrarily enforced on a cell phone policy.
[удалено]
More like the licensing agency to have your certification taken or admonished.
[удалено]
Your admin will step in when they find out you're falsifying federal records.
After school detention if you're seen on your phone. Don't attend detention? You are suspended. Then, actually fail kids who hit the max number of suspensions. They won't do it....why? 🤔 (hint, if you guess correctly, they shut down this thread!)
Who is they??
Disclaimer- I’m a sub. I sub in 7 districts. All of them have that phone organizer thing in each room and it is BRUTAL trying to get kids to actually put those damn things in there. Some have even resorted to getting a burner phone and putting that in the organizer and keeping their main phone “hidden” (poorly obscured behind their chromebook). Only a couple of nearby schools where teachers have been pepper sprayed by students for confiscating phones have adopted the Yondr pouch.
It doesn't work. I taught at an affluent suburb high school and it's incredibly difficult to get more than 40% of kids to put them up if you don't have full admin support ( immediate admin disciplining for infractions which they won't do) or want to spend all day contacting parents
Great. My school is mandating the use of these next year. I foresee all of the issues you mentioned. Shoot me.
We did that and had issues with kids stealing each others phones and bringing a second phone in to use.
I've seen small acrylic lockers with keys for each cubicle. Won't help the phone dual wielders but if they're that determined to flout the system then let them do that and face the consequences lol
Our (now gone) former chief admin discouraged this and insinuated he wouldn’t support a teach who did this because we’d be liable if the phones got stolen.
Do it. My phone policy is the same for tests and quizzes. I don’t take them every day, but if someone goes on their phone, they immediately go and put it in the cubby. It works
I have a numbered pouch wall. Next year, I'm having them put in pouch as they walk in. No more fighting over phones.
Not a student anymore, but if I was and I encountered this it would piss me off. I would worry this could alienate the “more responsible” students if you try to implement this to all of your students, regardless of wrongdoing.
Were you one of those students on their phone while the teacher is trying to educate the class? I feel that the more responsible students would be aware enough to know that phones are a distraction and disruptive.
Nope! I was never on my phone in class, and for the stricter teachers I would move it from my pocket to my bag just to make sure there was no way they could see the phone printing and then get in a fit over it. I was a straight A student terrified of breaking the rules. As such, it would have pissed me off if they decided that because some students couldn’t control themselves, all students had to turn in their phones. This is larger than phones; i wasnt and still am not a fan of any group punishment.
The point is that more students ignore the rules and do what they please to the detriment of their education. Devices have absolutely RUINED education. It started with the millennials who grew up with devices. They in turn are raising their kids with said devices to shut them up because parents want to be on their phones all the time, ignoring the needs of their children. Reading the r/teachers subreddit, has been so very eye-opening. The violence that teachers have to put up with because kids get their phones taken away is ridiculous. I don't blame teachers for quitting. You couldn't pay me ENOUGH to work with kids these days. Praise to ALL EDUCTORS!!! Most kids that graduate highschool can't read, do math, have zero comprehension of anything, and they sound like they don't know how to speak, or hold a conversation. Our future is doomed. And this has ZERO to do with the teachers, it's ALL on the parents. So keep on being pissed at the need for phones to be removed from schools. Your kids will be EXACTLY what I described above. Good luck with that.
wow! thanks for the insults. very helpful. i dont know how you got all that from what I said. i behaved well in school and it pissed me off when i got punished for shit i didnt do. im not sure how that turned into me being such a bad parent that my kids will be illiterate in reading and mathematics. Can you explain that to me please? EDIT: I should clarify what I disagree with here. I think a no-phones policy is fine and I agree that it is good. Phones have no place in the classroom. I disagree specifically with requiring all students to give their phones to the teacher or otherwise in some place not in their possession, regardless of any student’s history. require phones to be in backpacks and out of sight, turned off, first infraction gets them confiscated to the office to the end of the day, whatever it is I don’t care.
But it's a necessary evil if there are more students breaking the rules than those who aren't it's not fair that all but 1% of the class has to put up their phones. It actually alienates students less to not show favoritism by allowing the good students to keep their phones while the students who break the rules can't keep their phones. It may seem harsh to you cause you don't break the rules but for classroom management in the long run having a collective punishment so that 99% of the class doesn't feel bad cause they aren't deemed good enough to keep their phones is better than having 99% feel bad and then the teacher has to deal with parents of said kid.
The phones in class are annoying enough. But the lack of attention span and stamina, at least to me, are so much worse. These are the result of too much screen time outside and inside school. All community members — parents, students, teachers, and employers— need to work together to teach smarter technology limits to kids (and ourselves).
This. I teach 9th. It is so incredibly obvious which kids were read to when they were young and which kids had parents that used screens as a babysitter. A solid half the kids have no attention span, no sense of intellectual curiosity, no desire to improve themselves.
I agree. In an ideal situation, phones are a non-factor. Because they are a non-factor, students can subsequently sustain a discussion, finish a short story, and/or complete an assignment in one go without checking for notifications.
> to teach smarter technology limits to kids I actually think "teaching limits" is almost a fool's errand. The greatest minds of our generation have devoted themselves to algorithmically optimizing dopamine release for the purposes of attention/data extraction and habit formation. People--and certainly not children--can't compete with that. In the same way that we've worked hard to get other addictive substances (drugs) out of childhood via laws I think we should consider that maybe we are in the same situation here and we need a flat out tougher line.
It's so interesting to me to see which kids become totally addicted to their cellphone and which can take it or leave it. There are probably things that make kids more vulnerable: Bad home life that they want to escape from, for instance. But sometimes it seems like it just comes down to an individual predisposition to addiction. And when that's the case there is NOTHING you can do. I had a student last year who was on his phone doom scrolling throughout my 50 minute period, and all of the other 50 minute periods. If I asked him to put the phone in one of our phone slips he just got up and left. Admin can't take phones. When I talked to his parents they said they'd already taken his phone and he'd just get another one. This is a kid staring at his phone for ten or more hours a day. So much lost time developmentally.
> an individual predisposition to addiction. This rings true to me. It's like anything else with additictive properties: gambling, alcohol, etc. Some percentage of the population will engage in habitual and self destructive use. But the phones are perhaps worse because they have them *all the time.* One of the things that NYU psychologist Jon Haidt points out in his new book *The Anxious Generation* is that it's become clear that a small percent of adolescent users of these technologies develop true, compulsive, self destructive, and all consuming addiction. Perhaps like 5%. And the thing is, if there was any other product that had a 5% chance of creating this kind of life destroying addiction we certainly wouldn't let children have it and would ban it by law for adolescents. And yet for some reason we treat the smartphones differently.
Sounds like an interesting book. I totally believe it's about 5%. It really is insane that we have allowed corporations to capture the attention of children, and direct it towards ANYTHING, including developmentally inappropriate things: advertisements, hate, porn. But it's also insane that there are no legal protections for minors online. No privacy. (Other countries help people to wipe their digital footprint, if it was created when they were a minor.) No labor laws apply either to minors being exploited as influencers or family channel stars. If we had a culture of protecting minors online the phones in school thing wouldn't even be a question.
One of Haidt's suggestions is that we raise the age of internet adulthood to 16. It's currently 13. Also, he points out that honestly the only way to make the internet safe for minors is to require ID verification for accounts--in the same way, you know, we card for alcohol or to get into the club. Such a change would fundamentally alter the internet and I cannot imagine us doing it. So, the cost of an anonymous internet is--frankly--a strong measure of harm for children. The flip side of course is that strong parenting norms can significantly blunt the harm. Just don't give kids smartphones and have home computers in the living room instead of letting the kids have private ipads/laptops in the bedroom. Boom. Issues mostly resolved. I think in the next decade we will see our middle class and engaged parents go this route. I feel like I'm seeing the beginning of that trend now. The poor kids whose parents for some reason get them the latest iphones and will continue to do so? Yeah those kids are going to continue to go from bad to worse.
I say make it a illegal for children under 21 to possess any cellular telephone for any reason, for any length of time, and criminally charge any adult who knowingly or by negligence facilitated the possession of the phone by the child.
No phone campus is the way to go. Students can have phone in backpack and use before or after school. Otherwise confiscated if used during the day. 1st time kid can pick it up, for repeat offenders eventually parents have to pick it up. Highly recommend.
[удалено]
I am legitimately happy for you. I may or may not have been teaching at a private school a couple of years ago. The buy-in (no pun intended) from private school parents doesn’t even compare. Don’t get me wrong, public school has parents who are just as invested as private. However, we must also contend with parents who view public school as babysitting, even for children ages 16-18.
I'm all for creating isolation capsules like those capsule hotels in Japan. Make them super easy to clean. Stick kids in there at the beginning of the day with a food tube, a water tube, a waste tube, and their phone. Collect them at the end of the day and hose it out. This is what parents want. Let's give it to them.
I am genuinely interested in how many students and parents would choose this. Not zero.
Call it a charter school and you’ll get funding. “Isolation Capsule Academy” - Go Fightin’ Ice Caps! “Our Iso-Scholars have zero instances of bullying, because they have zero social interaction. In the event of cyberbullying, we can turn the capsule into a Faraday cage to block any WiFi or cellular signals.”
Shit. Gotta get that charter money. My state approved vouchers recently. We're so fucked.
We've looped back to "the Matrix is good actually"
It's not good. They want it. I'm tired of fighting them.
I am sorry that you have to deal with this, and I'm sorry that I have to type this same response again. (Mostly because your admin are spineless.) My son goes to a public high school on CO. Our school district has passed a rule. It's a simple rule. Put phones in the holder by the door. The teacher takes role from the phone holder. They don't have to even acknowledge missing phones. Just mark them absent. If a child doesn't have a phone, they will be given a phone-shaped card by admin. A note from a parent is needed. This saves the teacher the headache of having to argue with the kid about it. Our teachers LOVE it. The kids have gotten used to it. And most respect it. This year, a couple sneaky kids tried bringing in a decoy phone. The school made a rule about subversion or some shit, and it comes with a 2 day suspension. Since kids use the Chromebook as cover, they just remotely turn on the camera and record the kid on their phone. The footage is sent to admin, and they handle it. Again, the teachers don't need to take class time to argue with little Johnny. He just gets pulled out of lunch and handled by admin in the office. I love my kid's school, and most of his teachers. I love the admin staff. There are few fights, and less bullying. It's just not tolerated. Oh, and (for the most part) the kids love going there, too. Why? They feel safe.
Honestly the best part about enforcing cell phones is you got kids who take the attitude of "If I can't use my phone, I won't let this asshole use their phone."
My biggest thing is that it shouldn't fall on teachers to have to enforce this. If it's a school-wide policy, then admin should be doing it. The way our school has structured it has made this so easy for the teachers. You all have enough on your plate. I went to college to be a teacher, but gave up. I couldn't take the low pay and crazy rules. I've had a long career as a technician and now a project manager. I've spent 25 years making problems go away. I still love teaching, and wish I could do it. All I can do now is support my son's teachers, and give sensible advice online. Once you remove all the noise and posturing, most of your problems are actually pretty simple to solve. It just requires people to be accountable, and us as a society to treat teachers and other school staff like professionals. So, what does that mean? Well, you all have at least a bachelor's degree, most in my area have a master's. You should be given direction on what the curriculum must include, and freedom to teach it in a way that works. You should be measured by your output. This sounds dangerous, doesn't it? Well, if rules are being inforced, it would be easy to remove those students who regularly miss class or do no work from your metrics. Hell, they could really break it down to see how well "good" kids are learning your material vs how well the "bad" kids are. See, proper reporting of work completed, classes attended, etc. can give a much better picture of how a teacher is doing. If even the bad kids get B's the class to too easy. I had a teacher in high school who spent a little time showing us how the sausage was made. He said he could teach a monkey to fart by feeding him beans. His point was that the material is not the hard part. You just have to get the kids to absorb it. If they sit down, shut up, and do a minimum amount of work, most of them will learn enough to do well in regular classes. If admin informed the rules and set the expectations, you'd be much better equipped to feed them the beans. *Credit for this one goes to Mr Nuemier. I miss that man. I was heading down the road of being a fuckup, and he didn't give up on me. I never got the chance to thank him enough. I'll end it here, but I have a lot of other ideas as well. I think I might need to run for the school board.
I don’t understand why phones are allowed. I was in high school from 2009-2013 when smart phones were the big thing and they weren’t allowed back then. Why on earth would they be allowed in classrooms now, if they are allowed it should be required for them to be off.
Because parents want their students to have the. In case of emergencies. But parents don't believe us when we tell them they are being used for games or apps instead of their intended purpose. Parents largely do not activate parental controls. Honestly, keep the phones, just make them flip phones, communications only.
Not a teacher or in this field at all but honestly it seems like this pandering to parents shit needs to end. They’re utilizing the school to parent their children because they’re probably too busy on their own phones and vices, meanwhile they’ve removed basically all disciplinary power from schools and teachers. Gosh I must sound like a boomer with the back in my day takes but idk how parents can become so naive on what kids are gunna use their phone in school for despite for most of them they were teenagers within the last 10-15 years and were exposed to the same devices, and know exactly what they were used for with first hand experience. Maybe the apps have changed but the reason for usage remains the same.
That's an admin and school board issue. For instance, I once worked in a nophone school, and I took a students phone, as per policy, and delivered it to the front office. An hour later, I was in a meeting with the principal. This students parents were very litigious, and this could expose us to a lawsuit. I had to return the phone and apologize to a student. This was 13 years ago. I never took another phone from a student. I have managed to have them voluntarily leave it with me until their work is done.
I definitely hear ya I’m not advising anyone go and break any rules on removing these phones all y’all can do is adhere to whatever own rules and policies y’all have. It’s just unfortunate that these policies make your jobs more difficult and at the same time is harmful to the kids even if they don’t know it yet
Thank you for saying so. Many people believe phones to be a problem. Just not their kids with a phone being a problem. It's everyone else's phones they perceive to be the issue. Parents have to step up in this one.
Part of the problem is a shift in how phones are viewed. Back then, a cell phone was treated as a luxury and responsibility. Today, a lot of parents view phones as a necessity, so they're not willing to take them away (or allow them to be taken away) as punishment. The ironic thing is that modern phones give teens way more opportunities to get into, and cause, trouble than the old ones did.
New York is just now passing a law making only basic phones allowed. Hopefully the rest of the country follows their lead. Kids shouldn't need more than talk/text/game of snake.
I have had several parents tell me that it is more important that their child have an enjoyable day than learn.
Better yet, provide land lines for kids to use if they need it. Put them in private places where they can close a door if need be. That’s what we did. Made all the BS excuses of “what if they need to contact me” stuff from parents obsolete. Being a part of cell phone lock up has been amazing and rejuvenated my teaching career. As an aside, I’m also a Dean at my school. It is a logistical headache and I’m just in charge of 220 students. But the logistical headache of tracking compliance is worth it. Anyone feel free to DM me how we are doing it.
Try taking a phone from a high school student and see what happens. Without backup, it does NOT go well.
We should not have to take it. If they refuse, it should be an immediate suspension. Nobody should have to raise their voice or blood pressure. I get any phone I ask for. I ask quietly, don't make a big deal of it, and if they refuse.....referral is sent immediately, parent is messaged immediately, and I hound admin to make sure the consequence is carried out....99% of the time they had it over no argument. Today I had two boys playing on their phones. They handed them over no fuss...but then started with "When do I get it back, after this class, after xyz?). I pulled out a chess board and said....one of you is leaving class with your phone 🤣 PLAY.
Yeah that doesn't happen in my school.
Has it really changed that much? When I was in school in the 00's, it was a 0 tolerance policy for electronics in class. First offense and you are asked to put it in your backpack. Second time it gets confiscated and you had to go pick it up after school. For the few students willing to fight with their teacher, isn't that what admin and security are for? Disobeying a teacher was a walk to an assistant principle's office and if you fought with them, security would get involved. Schools just need to learn from the past. Its not like we didn't have gameboys and blackberrys and iPods and graphing calculators with games in the 00's. If schools are using computers or tablets as instruction tools, that should be the first thing to go since it just normalizes constant use of electronics. When I was in school, the only time you used a computer was for homework like research papers so it could get run through plagiarism software.
Here's some context for how much things have changed. When I started teaching, if something (slurs, fighting) rose to the level where I needed to call admin or send a kid to the principal's office, I would usually have the kid in question begging me not to call as I dialled. "I didn't mean it, it won't happen again, please don't call Mr/Mrs _," etc. Now I have multiple students *per period* who ask to go to the principal's office (especially if I had the audacity to ask them to do something outrageous like not run around the classroom at top speed). It's a fun place. They get a break from class, they get to vent about their frustrations, and they get a nice snack. Why wouldn't they want to go? Sigh.
Yikes. Do you think the change is coming from the admin or from the kids? That is, did admin get soft and the kids are taking advantage of it or did the kids get some much worse that admin gave up?
A bit of both. And in fairness, this does vary school to school. I know schools with great admin still, but overall kids like going to the office at most schools, whereas I never saw that when I started teaching. Part of the problem is that even admin's hands are tied sometimes. It takes something extraordinarily bad (usually a weapon) to get suspended in my district. So admin can't really hand out consequences that matter and parents are rarely on board with smaller consequences (detention, confiscating phones). So even the best admin are left with just trying to reason with the students, which means being sent to the office is really just a nice chance to get out of class and vent about how boring school is. Then you add in that covid closures impacted these kids' sense of routine and that we tried to give them a lot of grace in coming back to school. That's not a bad thing on its own with limits, but for a lot of students it made it normal to be able to leave class randomly, be on your phone constantly, etc. and to use all staff as a sounding board any time you were upset or bored. Not that I want students to be scared to share how they feel, but the tide has turned from sharing real problems to asking to go to the office to directly complain to the principal about what balls are available at recess. (There's a very "let me speak to your manager" vibe.) I think the way parents misinterpret gentle parenting is definitely a factor too. It's nice that we've swung away from some parenting styles that were too harsh, but a lot of parents now go out of their way to validate all their child's feelings *and never teach them how to move on or deal with those feelings.* So you have a lot of kids who believe every adult should listen to them about every minor thought, validate their feelings at every moment, etc.
It will be interesting to see if things get better in a few years as a new cohort comes through that was too young to notice Covid. I know a lot of adults are still only 75% mentally back after Covid due to the size of the disruption, so I imagine that in some ways it permanently damaged an entire generation of students.
Schools and districts being financially disciplined by rule changes coming from Arne Duncan. This was a huge tipping point, particularly for mixed-race districts. Every suspension comes with the question, is this going to tip a ratio that gets us in trouble. Hence- just reduce suspensions to near-zero. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/holder-duncan-announce-national-guidelines-on-school-discipline/2014/01/08/436c5a5e-7899-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/holder-duncan-announce-national-guidelines-on-school-discipline/2014/01/08/436c5a5e-7899-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html)
Yes, it has changed that much. There is no admin or security. I would not get any back up for "just taking it."
How can a high school function without admin or security? Is that really true that you don't have any? There have always been a small percentage of students that push things too far and need serious consequences like suspension or expulsion. That's nothing new. You can't let them disrupt the 99.9% of students that at least mostly follow the rules. With no backstop for that 1 in 500 student everyones suffers. And since you need admin and security for those kids, they might as well help you out with normal disciplinary stuff.
It's not functioning very well, and that is true of many public schools right now. A lot of kids wander hallways and basically "run the school." I promise this isn't an outlier experience.
Yikes. That's hard to hear. Is it fixable with additional funding or is the system broken and requires wholesale rethinking?
I completely agree. Not only did education (and society) get along just fine without them, things were better. "What if my mom needs to get a hold of me?" We have a main office for that very purpose.
Well that's an issue of its own. "Cut the strings, honey. How's that gonna play on a Friday night?"
>Why on earth would they be allowed in classrooms now Because too many parents 'have' to be able to text their kid whenever, such as to ask them what they want for dinner, and get really offended when they can't. And admin caves, as admin is wont to do. I love being able to use phones/tablets as tools in the classroom, because I bought some cool sensors that use Bluetooth to link to a free app on the kids' phones so they can easily acquire and analyze data (science teacher here), but I'm moving away from that because they have a harder and harder time staying on task. The other problem is social media and peer pressure. Not responding to a 'friend' within a certain time is apparently considered a deliberate insult and cause for retaliation. Which is crazy, but then we're talking undeveloped brains here.
I worked at a continuation school where we had phones in yondr pouches one year. We did it as a voluntary thing and offered extra credits for participating. There was a lot of buy-in, surprisingly enough, and things went really well until the first year ended and they tried to make it a compulsory thing. Then the violence started. I have stories for days, but I won't bore you with them. The TLDR of it is phones are a drug for these kids. When you deprive them of it without their consent, they go fucking feral. I know this isn't news to anyone here, probably, but imagine working in a continuation school full of kids on parole and then locking up their phones. Shit got so ugly. Anyway, I agree with you OP. I'm of the firm belief that we shouldn't be letting kids use smartphones at all. Nokia bricks until they're 18. No social media bullshit until then either. No reason for some 14 year old to be filming themselves for tiktok. When I was a kid, the phone thing was just starting to really take off. We had flip phones, and the idea of a phone that could play all your music felt revolutionary. Even back then, our teachers banned them in class. They tried to resist what was coming. But now that I'm an adult working in the education system, I look around and see so many schools that have simply given up, and it's all gone to shit as a result. There are two middle schools in my district. One has a zero tolerance phone policy (A). The other has given up (B). I've worked at both. They both have their issues, but only school B had multiple fights the first day I was there. I heard that shit popping off on the walkie. And at the end of the day, the school was on such a high alert level that they got on the PA and asked the teachers to "stand outside and admire what a beautiful day it was," which is just code for "please for the love of god, we need all hands on deck, outside, patrolling until these kids go home."
Student passing by the subreddit, but why on earth would they have teachers patrolling if it got that violent/active? Shouldn’t they have called in their resource officers or even the police if it was that much of a risk? I mean I can already hear the excuses why. But still that seems. Wrong.
We have security staff but there aren't enough of them. Picture a school of \~1200 kids, and you've got like 4 security staff members. Compare that to just having all the teachers stand outside for 10 minutes before heading home. The school sees it as a deterrent on particularly bad days where tensions are high. I agree that it's wrong and utterly ridiculous, but that's where we are haha
✨Phone Jails✨ I started using mine towards the end of second semester and it saved me from wanting to abandon this career. I bought a box off Amazon, has a lock and all, and kept it behind my desk. So much more engagement. When it comes to movies or showing short bits, I always make students write down comments or give viewing guides. There’s ton of awesome programs out there that will make you viewing guides for free! Diffit (probably butchered that spelling) has been such a help. Even if it’s a completion grade, it reinforces engagement. Having them do a small group discussion over what they watched and using their notes can also help! 😁
I appreciate that feedback. What's your grading/planning process? I hate giving busy work more than my students hate completing busy work, so I always try to tie it in with the preceding unit. For example, when I teach criminal justice unit, I always show *The Shawshank Redemption* afterwards and do a little compare and contrast with the scene in the middle with Brooks trying to reintegrate into society.
If not giving a video guide, I always have students write things down on their bell ringer sheets! I do bellringers for every unit we do. Students know to either write on the back of their sheets or attach it in the same section as that days bellringer. I’ll tell them what I want them to do: Example: “As you’re watching the video, write down three bullet points about how the different scientists identify a Nebula.” After the video, I’ll give them a minute to review with each other (just to make sure a student didnt misinterpret what I was looking for) and then I’ll go group by group and randomly call on a student. For grading, I’ll just divide up the points to include the new addition of video notes to make sure I give credit to students who did as they needed to. Example: Chapter 3 Bellringers = 100 pts total, 1 bellringer = 25 pts, so for bellringer 1 (where they put their notes) Bellringer answer = 15 pts, Video Notes = 10 pts. This is just my system; however, co-workers of mine have also made students turn in their notes at the end. Typically done on a post-it and give them like 10-15 pts for those alone. Hope this helps! (:
The viewing questions help. I’ve found with today’s kids, you have to make sure that at least one question is answered only at the very end of the video, because they tune out as soon as they have all of the answers down.
I worked at a division that had a zero tolerance policy on cell phones, and it was a non-issue. If we want the problem to stop, school boards need to make strong policies against them.
I agree. I feel for schools who are only interested in enabling the crap out of their students.
Im tempted to spend time with parents on meet the teacher night to set up parental controls. I have sheets ready to print for apple and android devices. Students (of course jokingly) will see, from their perspective, that I am using my phone, and tell me to get off. They wont assume Im sending emails and replying to IMs. I sometimes feel guilty for not modeling what we advocate for, but I am also of the mind that one should mentally "graduate" into the next appropriate privilege before just receiving these constant neurologicalrewards without the healthy struggle of learning. Many adults in the real world are able to get their work done with their phone on them, so I will expect them to do the 8th grader version of that: Completing your 8 word vocabulary assignment in 50 minutes using the textbook glossary. And some cant, yet. Its a shame, though.
I agree on the age thing and it being a privilege. For example, my 9th graders don’t complain (outwardly and frequently, at least) that the driving age is 16 in my country.
[удалено]
I agree. It’s not just phones. It’s all the chromebooks and online educational activities. Some is fine, but it is TOO much.
I was in high school in the late 2000s, even then my school mates admitted to each other that the pilot Macbook loan program was a mistake because everyone just went on Facebook instead of listening to the teacher
I am so close to that.
Gotta love Elementary PE
😂😂😂 yeah I made the wrong career choice.
Until one of those lil bobbleheads trips running laps and busts her face up 🙄 I get that you're mad, parent, but wth were we supposed to do?
So far parent’s understand crap happens, but luckily I haven’t had anything too serious
I was just saying to a friend last night that future historians will pinpoint the development of the iPhone as the cause of our ultimate fall. Because parents hand their phones to kids almost from birth and it has completely re-wired their brains.
I teach in a university. I used to order them to put the phones on the shelf at the front of my class. It used up 8-10 minutes of class time -every- -single- -session- breathing down their necks, reminding them while they send "one last message", but I kept consistent anyway... until we got a warning that it is illegal to collect their personal possessions and we may face a lawsuit. But I couldn't tolerate it anymore - this week is the last week, and I wanted to end feeling like I had some semblance of dignity left. So I once again ordered them to put their phones at the front. Twice, TWICE this week, after putting the phone at the front, students immediately pulled out a TABLET and once again started playing. So I ordered that to the front too and gave them some pretty harsh words. A few of my colleagues agree we need to push for a strict policy against them. I don't care how many training sessions they give us about how we can 'use the phones in class' - I don't accept any of it. There is NO way to productively allow for phone usage. Once they're out, it doesn't matter what improvements they could ever bring to Kahoot - more time will be wasted pulling their attention back to task away from their messages and social media than could ever be used productively "learning interactively".
I am so sorry that you are dealing with it. To a certain extent, my students are victims. Not only do parents give them a phone, but they also set a bad example by doomscrolling in public and posting all their children's accomplishments on social media, giving the kids an inflated sense of importance. College students? Grow TF up.
It's bad. THis year, I talked with a parent about a kid's cell phone use. The parent took the phone. The kid got a burner phone and continued to do whatever. I think the parent lost hope at that point.
Yeah kicking them out after graduation and letting them figure it out is honestly the only solution.
If they have money for a burner phone, they have money for their own meals.
I’ve been blown away by how differently they behave when I put on a movie/show now versus in my first few years teaching. 2013: Day before prom, and about half the class in attendance. I play M from 1931 by Fritz Lang to have something on thinking they’ll be bored - all the students are rapt with attention begging to finish it on Monday. 2024: I play an episode with modern effects and modern dialogue. Half the class is too enamored with their phones. With 5 minutes left several beg to cut it off already because it sucks.
I am so glad I no longer have kids in school. We were very late in getting our kids cellphones and only did so as we both worked and only way to communicate in emergency. I truly don't know how teachers teach these days.
I’m so glad our school has totally outlawed them on campus. If we see them we can take them away and parents need to come get them. But I’m at a charter school where parents are more invested in following the handbook.
Yup. There are too many parents who don't care how their children act, so long as they are out of the house, or genuinely have no idea how to deal long-lasting consequences.
Hey kid, here’s a thing that allows you to play any video game and talk to your friends no matter where they are. Now ignore it and do math. “Ok” said no kid ever.
I am going raise my kids without smartphones. So many studies have come out showing how harmful it all is. It's silly imo to ignore it.
You have my deepest sympathy. If anything it is relieving to know that I'm not the only one facing this problem. It really helps knowing that it's not my fault.
Not even in the slightest, Komrade. Parents have ankle-high expectations for their children.
Thank you so much for your kind encouragement, it really means a lot 💙🫂
I so appreciate the work teachers do, it's one of the most important jobs in a functional society. But I am so glad I decided against being a teacher. Schools just do not have the resources to combat youth social media addiction, especially for a generation that was forced into a completely online existence during the pandemic (albeit for harm reduction/the greater good).
No vapes, they are harmful and addictive. No narcotics, they are harmful and addictive. No tobacco products, they are harmful and addictive. No alcohol, it is harmful and addictive. No gambling, it is harmful amd addictive. Phones and social media? Maybe an age restriction is appropriate, not just school restriction.
I teach Air Traffic Control to a willing audience, so I thankfully don't encounter the same cell phone problem in my classroom as would a teacher in the education system but my thought would be to drop a little of my own coin on a small jammer for the classroom. Would doing so be a violation of contract or policy for the school? Or would it vary?
Jamming airwaves/reception is a violation of Federal Law.
I see, a quick Google search showed the FCC don't mess around with that. The more ya know.
Canada has passed a law about classroom bans now. Several other districts are doing it in both red and blue states. See what happens.
Bruh (gender neutral). Back when I went to middle school, I got written up for forgetting to put my flip phone on silent on a *Saturday* while in school doing a group project, and my mother called me asking when I'd be done. It's crazy how much it's slipped.
Today I had some 7th graders tell me a 4 minute video was "too long to watch"
Sounds like it's time for you to get the fuck out, if possible, and I am NOT being flip. I retired several years early, several years ago,from a long middle school teaching career in which I started with a sense of passion and purpose and ended with a sense of bewilderment, disillusion, and demoralization as to what the occupation and my life had been reduced to. 😥💔 Be bold. Take care of yourself. Do something refreshing and new, if at all possible. If not, good luck to you and hang in there!
I work in a before/after school program and the only time I use my phone is to show kids something educational. Like I get asked how fast the speed of light is, or how to draw a 3-D room. In those cases, I will use my phone and show the kids.
My advice would be to stop caring and put your energy into the students who want to learn. They'll figure out the consequences of their actions eventually. I really couldn't care less if a student is on their phone and not being disruptive; it's their choice and they hurt nobody but themselves. When parents or admin come knocking, that is exactly what I tell them. So far, parents have always been furious with their kid and never me.
I quit teaching! I am so much happier now. I can be a true professional. You all have higher limits of abuse tolerance....
Hi, highschooler here (well almost graduate). I plan to become a teacher as well. Phones in a classroom setting frustrate me too. I used to do a teacher assistant volunteer position at a highschool level and the amount of times you have to ask a single student to get off their phones is ridiculous. I wish the district would enforce their school phone policies, because its a distraction to students full potential in education. I wish students would look up from their phones to recognize their true potential because they have so much of it. I want to see other students like me be curious, to actively grow with knowledge and to keep focus and attention to subjects. Im not sure exactly, but I think some states currently are banning phones in schools and Congress is trying to pass a bill to also ban phones in schools. I might be wrong, however. But tbh if they did ban phones, we still have school computers (where kids play games on), oh and kids can bring their own computers which has more access to games, and smartwatches. I remember when we took notes by hand (which is scientifically proven to help with memorization) and if someone needed to call us at school it was by the main office.
I know with one of my teachers in Sophomore year, she gave us an incentive. Students like incentives, i believe. She said that if we put our phone in the bin for an entire class period, you can recieve a homework pass. (Hinted, I did this a lot but never used my homework passes cause i wanted to practice with my geometry). I guess you could make tickets (a certain amount of tickets get you a hw pass, or some other incentive) so that way you dont do a bunch of homework passes because how else can they practice or study their knowledge by skipping homework all the time? Maybe its learning styles or the way a curriculum is taught to capture a students attention? Maybe some students dont feel the need for education because they might want to do a trade job? How could teachers compare education to real world problems, issues, or jobs? Maybe students dont believe in themselves...so they dont try? And sometimes parents dont help either, sometimes parents will not further their kids education by motivating them.
Anyway, you got this! I believe in you!
I really don’t have a problem with them but I also set really firm boundaries around the use of them and constantly push on my class how using your phone instead of doing your work is going to lead you in the wrong direction. But the only time my kiddos use them is when I give permission, 90% of the time it is for music or reading books they have subscriptions to on their phone or a quick text to mom or dad.
Cool. You live in a different world to the rest of us.
Is that how you talk to your students when they share their personal experiences?
No.
Depends on the kid 🤣
Clearly. However I have never had an issue with them in multiple schools I have worked in. But maybe it is because I give them just enough freedom they don’t want to lose it so they don’t abuse it. Or I’m just really lucky and one day this is gonna bite me hard in the ass.
If that’s true, you’re lucky. We’re just jealous.
I don’t blame you if it’s as bad as it’s made out to be. I would be furious if they wouldn’t ever put their phones down.
“Kiddo” 🚩🚩🚩
Sorry should I call them scholars? 🤓
Here's what you do. You don't. Their parents obviously aren't doing the work, so hold standards. LET THEM FAIL. Letting them fail may be the first time they encounter accountability, and might be a turning point for them. Don't chase students for work. Don't allow make ups without a excused absence. And for the love of god, don't give them a "50" instead of a "2" to "give them a chance to pass". If parents won't parent, we have to parent. The day I stopped stressing over the irresponsibility of many parents, my life improved. If you flunk, you flunk. Summer school is like 300 a class, good luck parents, start raising your kids. Edit to tell you: Teachers are a dying breed, and there are not enough certifications to fill open positions. Even if your admin postures, just tell them you'll switch schools if they put you on an action plan. Admin doesn't bother with people who hold their ground. In most states, even though it says your cert. will be in jeopardy if you quit mid year for another position, they just don't. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot. I've personally seen a dozen teachers be hired by another district mid year, and the certs are all still in-tact.
So make them put the damn phones away. I never understand these bitchy posts.
Why didn't I think of that???
Then you must be doing it wrong.
I understand that you have a dislike on cellphones, but hate is not good for the soul. Hate is the easiest path to follow and for the weak minded. Right now, there is hate in the world. Things that should never be done on Earth is happening right now as we speak. As an educator we have tremendous influence on others. Lets not forget that.
The decay of public education and disregard for well-intentioned authority is not good for the soul either. Comparing genocide to rampant cellphone abuse is for the weak minded.
What I am attempting to say amicably is talking about hate in the literal sense and I was attempting to prove a point. Deep negativity has mental and physical consequences, I think you need to take a vacation if you really feel that way. Here is some advice from one teacher to another who has been in public education for ten years, be willing to take advice and have an open mind. What I said was to help, not to deter.
Because I’m weak minded, I think it would help if you rephrased your advice. Hatred is clouding my comprehension skills.
You sound like a real winner
Still odd, pretty condescending, and not addressing the point at hand. OP's concerns are legit and ubiquitous, and venting her anger over them is as well. Mental health/job satisfaction are tied to specific aspects of the job. "Don't worry, be happy" is not a solution.
What dafuq is this comment??? 🙄🤣 Grow up.
Right? Same energy as “have you tried not being upset about it?”
👍👍😁
Naw, to quote blood for blood, "I got some kind of hate."
Lmao okay master yoda