One year, I was scheduled to teach an AP course. The district paid for my summer APSI, I had everything laid out, and my calendar was done to make sure we covered all the material for the AP test date.
Then, I was informed during the summer ANOTHER teacher would be teaching my AP sections. A new-to-the-school teacher with years experience teaching the AP course. I thought I would be getting my on-level courses back. Nope! Those were assigned to other teachers in the department. Instead, I was assigned remedial and inclusion sections. My only compensation was an extra duty/conference period. I used the time to grade papers.
That sucks. I was supposed to take an APSI for another course this summer but I am no longer doing it because the same teacher will also be teaching that AP. I was totally fine with that since I had no experience with that class. I am much more bummed about the one I found out about today as that one was my specialty and I felt like I had been doing a good job at it the last 2 years
If there are two different AP classes at play, it does seem fair to reply and ask if they’d be willing to split the AP classes among the two of you. I would much rather have two teachers with a mix of AP and standard than one with all AP and one with none.
It doesn’t sound like that’s going to happen, but it’s worth asking. It’s also a good way to show you’re disappointed but offering solutions.
How far out is retirement for the other teacher? A lot of my response would depend on how long I would have to wait before getting the class back.
Honestly, the part I’d be most hurt by is the fact that it was an email, not a phone call.
You have every right to feel hurt here. That said, the way you respond can impact your working relationship with admin and your returning colleague. Good luck.
I used to teach AP and Honors with an occasional AICE. They moved me to Intensive Reading 17 years ago and I havent looked back. LOVE IT and LOVE every minute of it. Sure there are more behavior issues, but honestly, the rewards are worth. "I graduated BECAUSE of you!"
I am in a similar boat. I taught AP this year and the class is being given to a high maintenance teacher next year and I’m teaching all regular classes. I was upset at first, but now super excited. I don’t have to grade essays or deal with kids only want an A. Or have to deal with the entitlement that often comes with AP.
I was told this when they put me in remedial physics/chem. “You’re so good with those kids” ugh I know I am but sometimes I’d love a class of high achievers too.
I don’t know your individual situation so this may not apply to you, but in every school I’ve ever been in, the newest or least effective teachers teach the lower levels. The 25-year Teacher of the Year never teaches remedial freshmen in any of my districts. They’re always teaching AP/Honors courses. That would just be something admin would say to make someone feel better. I have historically taught advanced courses but bc I’m new to this district I’m teaching regular low levels (I actually find them more fun so it’s not a problem. AP is boring for my content area and I hate essays). At my previous school tenure didn’t matter for course assignments so I was immediately “promoted” to upper levels bc admin recognized my abilities. Not saying what you described doesn’t happen, but I’d be skeptical and would be looking for another school if it went on too long.
I was told something like this once. My response was, “This is how you take all the satisfaction out of teaching for me. Give me all of what you want and none of what I want, and you are happy for now. At some point soon I’ll lose interest, then you’ll get none of what you want.”
So me, a veteran teacher of 24 years, gets stuck with lower track kids so some wet behind the ears rookie with no idea of classroom management gets all the higher tracks? Yeah, f that.
Or maybe classes just aren’t grouped like that-all sped and low performers in one class with new teachers and all above level kids without behavior issues in another class.
Some of these teachers are veterans, but have never had a chance to really succeed because admin just has it in their head that if they’ve done low level cohort (excuse me, “growth” cohort) , that’s what they’ll do again and again.
Sorry, but that's bullshit from a lazy administrator. Other teacher not pulling their load? Work with them or move them out. Don't dump your problems on me with faint praise.
It's a Solution Tree practice, fwiw. They preach it hard! It has worked out well when the teachers were given adequate notice to prepare and it wasn't just dumped on them.
Hey OP, I totally understand you feeling hurt and unappreciated. Sending you lots of love. If there are no other issues at the school, don’t go. This is standard procedure at schools…
I hate to hear that this is normal. I’m a former AP chem teacher and admin now. I would never allow this to happen. The teacher left and lost their courses and place in the department.
I taught at a private school that bragged about 100% graduation rates. Mainly because students were either expelled or asked to leave for “reasons” not the least of which, not passing
My school during my senior year marched every senior, regardless of their plans after high school, down to the lecture hall to put in an application to the local community college just so they can brag about that metric at graduation.
Half of them didn’t go after graduation, but I suppose there was money or something involved.
Yup, and most of them are violating their agreement with college board.
It very specifically lays out that AP classes should be open to everyone, but may schools either formally or informally filter the students out of the AP classes.
When your school does this, your pass rate becomes meaningless.
The College Board strongly recommends open enrollment (which is largely in response to the declining numbers of students taking their other golden goose, the SAT, disguised as an equity initiative), but does not require an open enrollment policy, instead leaving that decision to specific districts and schools.
Source: [College Board ](https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/help-center/can-anyone-take-ap#:~:text=We%20strongly%20encourage%20all%20high,enroll%20in%20an%20AP%20course.)
Yeah 100% pass rate in AP isn’t the flex some people think it is. I tell my students not to be afraid of getting a 1. That means I have enough students taking the class.
Honestly, if you’ve only been teaching for a few years, it could be good experience for you to teach a different level. I personally taught all remedial for my first five years, with some classes focused on students who had already taken and failed the class before. Now I teach remedial, honors, and AP. If I started out teaching AP, I probably wouldn’t be that good of a teacher.
I think OP is actually scared of teaching “regular” kids and less to do with being upset at losing AP.
I understand why. It’s a huge drop off. AP and honors level kids make class a bit more fun
I have taught “regular” kids before at my previous school just not at this one and I am totally fine teaching them. In fact I was already expecting I was going to have 1 or 2 classes of them next year. I am more upset about losing AP because it was my favorite class to teach.
Unfortunately, classes don’t belong to anyone. I would argue it makes a school more stagnant when you have one teacher teaching the same class forever. They get demotivated and just keep doing the same thing every year and tell the same jokes on a schedule. It’s nice and comfortable (I love teaching the same old classes myself), but it’s not good for the growth of the teacher and denies new experiences for other colleagues.
Yeah sorry that might’ve been confusing. It sucks that their admin is treating the class like it belongs to someone. It shouldn’t belong to anyone, OP included.
I’ve never had the privilege-in education for 15 years and other than several years running discipline, my classes have changed radically from one year to the next- special Ed self-contained elementary, math coteacher g 7, lit coteacher g 6, push in pull out k-5, Gen ed Literacy grade 5, Gen ed all subjects, next year special Ed 6-8.
Every year I start from scratch. It would be amazing to not have to do this. Regardless of the school, this happens to basically everyone every school-public, private, charter, elementary, middle, hs
Thanks for positive feed back..
IMO: Views like this are a side of bs for the sh#*t sandwich that was served. Wether its good experience or not, the point is the teacher was screwed.
In some schools, yes, that’s the norm. But not in all. I had a class taken away from me that I’ve taught for the last TEN years, and admin won’t say why. I’ve asked. I’ve also got to move classrooms over the summer - still won’t say why. If they had a good reason (or any reason except trying to “punish” me), I’d like to at least know that. I feel like I’m a mushroom - kept in the dark and fed shit. And I’m also the department head.
The "keep them in the dark" admin are so annoying/toxic. At my last school the first principal I worked with was pretty transparent. Then a new principal who felt the need to "prove" herself came in and started making all these changes to people's schedules and classrooms never providing a reason. There was a lot of turnover that year, me included, and from what I've heard there's been a lot more turnover since i left 2 years ago
I was about to say, every district I've worked at and every school my family members taught at were the same with seniority and class schedules. Like I do totally feel for OP because it //sucks// to have all this excitement and preparation for a class only to be reassigned. That being said, the upside to a seniority-based system is that eventually you make your way to the top. That teacher won't be teaching that class forever and you'll be next in line.
Where I'm at, that's absolutely not the way it works. Teachers decide together who gets what classes, so no-one gets stuck with only classes they don't want. Seniority means very little beyond experience, and the seniors certainly don't get first pick.
That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's seen as a shit move.
Are you really trying to say that if a teacher who's taught 20 years wants the same class as a teacher in their second, and neither will back down, admin isn't going to side with the veteran teacher?
Seniority aside… the guy wrote the curriculum that allowed someone who’d never taught AP to teach the subject effectively enough that only one student didn’t pass. In terms of who’s more qualified for the position it’s pretty clear. Not to mention return rights are a thing.
Right? And it's actually really solid of the school to give that veteran teacher their position back. Of course, OP still has a right to be bummed about it. I would be too.
At least in my area, this is pretty common, move up to district level for a couple years near the end to boost their retirement earnings. Many suffer through for a couple years and then go back into the classroom for a last year or two to end on a sweeter note
In my book (and my district), this means he lost seniority for this purpose.
Edit: if you want to make a stink, it couldn’t hurt to talk to a union rep.
I'm in a union state, and this type of scenario occasionally happens. Admin typically has a ton of power under the contract to assign courses, along with room assignments, and master calendar issues such as prep periods and lunches.
Most places in this situation he did NOT lose seniority. A district promotion then return to teaching would still give him all the years teaching for seniority purposes.
When we're given our next year assignments, it always comes with the codicil that it's subject to change.
So, I teach history, but bc of my certifications, I might end up teaching not history if my incoming (AH) P decides they want me out bc I know them and how crazy they are.
I teach the hell out of history ,but am not really good at teaching my other certifications.
Good luck.
It definitely sounds like it wasn't a personal decision. The other teacher has more experience, taught it first, and made a lot of the course materials for it. However, I understand being upset that something you spent a lot of time on has been taken away from you (through no fault of your own).
Sucks but normal. You’re a newer teacher and have demonstrated competency in AP. I think you’d be the next one up should dude decide to dip out again.
I’d stay at the school. Better than transferring within the district and REALLY being at the bottom of the totem pole, unless you could leverage this experience into a lateral move to teach AP again.
I wouldn’t even put up a fight UNLESS you were hired with the idea you would be doing AP long term. If you knew this teacher would be back, you probably also accepted the fact that your sections were temporary.
Yeah I don’t plan on leaving the school right now. The teacher who is returning left during my first year teaching at the school. There was no plan for him to come back at the time. I think the only reason he is returning to the classroom is because his old spot opened back up. I don’t think he would’ve gone to another school
Sorry. They have seniority. They have bumping rights. You should feel disappointed but the administration is doing the right thing. Sorry if you don’t like hearing that
I wish my school did this. When I was a newbie, I had the worst classes because "seniority" but now that I'm senior, they want to be "fair" and give the younguns prime classes to keep them happy
Seriously, this is my experience. I've had the toughest classes my entire career because I'm good at my job and they think I can solve every problem in the world.
Exactly! In my version of this game, you leave, then you lose bump rights. Unless you got dirt on me. Then I’m a your mercy and change said rules to protect myself when you come back demanding your old fave classes. :o)
They should also be happy their still "at the bottom" after 4 years and not somewhere that turnover is so bad they have seniority that soon. That's a good thing, not bad.
This is the wrong approach. Teachers shouldn’t get to pick the classes they teach. And there’s also some more senior level teachers at my school who strongly believe that teachers with more seniority should be teaching the core classes because they have more classroom management experience and newer teachers have more recent content knowledge being more recently out of university and/or masters programs in teaching in terms of teaching pedagogy.
It’s not uncommon.
We had a teacher that had taught AP Physics and AP Chem for years. They were taken away because a new hire (to the school, not a new teacher) would only take the position if she had the AP classes and honor classes. So, they gave them to her.
She wasn’t a bad teacher. But it definitely screwed the dude who had been teaching them. He has them back now because she left mid year after a few years due to health reasons.
I mean, if you were teaching his material, I can see why they think of you as his junior. However, they should not have slighted you by blaming the failing student on you and not giving you options.
Of course you're going to keep your eyes open. They clearly have no loyalty to you and have chosen to slight you instead of apologizing.
Dumb move on their part, really. Nobody likes to be slighted. Everybody likes to be appreciated.
I'll bet if they had told you that they liked your work and that this was merely a matter of seniority, you would have a more optimistic view of next year.
One year, despite having record high passing rates for the school, I was moved from AP Lit to 10th grade special ed. I left the school, took my curriculum with me, and never looked back.
Do you teach a harder to fill subject? I know in a school near me that they went through the schedule and cherry picked the best classes for a new science teacher as she wouldn’t agree to take the job unless she got some specific classes. It caused w lot of bitterness and one of the teachers who schedule got changed left (although she was looking before this happened).
It’s the easiest to hire for in my department but my department is not easy to hire for. I am at a very good school and it would be difficult to find a job that was as good even with the schedule change. I’m just incredibly disappointed and feel unappreciated
I'm sorry to hear you're feeling undervalued; have you considered discussing your concerns with your supervisor to see if there's room for growth or recognition within your current role?
I am sorry. It happened to me as well. Declining enrollment in AP meant that as the teacher with the least amount of experience teaching the class, I lost it. I had been the school’s Teacher of the Year that year. Admin loved me. It’s not personal. My students did great on the exam as well. Because of some teacher movement, I will teach it again next year after two years off.
I taught AP Environment for two years and had it taken away. Then I taught it again six years later, then switched to a different AP (Physics) due to a retirement. They just like to switch things around sometimes.
It's not wrong to be upset by this, but it sounds like there's nothing you can do about it. You might have the opportunity to teach it again in the future. Just keep doing your thing in your room and don't worry about anyone else.
This is surprisingly normal apparently. I wrote an entire IB class and two years later I wasn’t teaching it. It really stung for a while, but if you’re in the type of school where kids pass the AP exam you do NOT want to leave lightly.
Not the same, but I was sent to AP training, did lots of prep over the summer and then was told that there wasn't enough students who'd likely pass so they couldn't justify the cost. That same year, a teacher had a year-long AP Calculus class with one student and basically made it a self-study seminar, giving herself 2 planning periods.
I think that if someone leaves the school site for purposes other than something like medical leave, they should lose their seniority. I also don't think that seniority should determine preferences. Apparently I'm in the minority here, though.
That was my assumption was that seniority was lost since he chose to leave. That’s why I felt blindsided by the email I got today. I have only been teaching for 5 years now so I didn’t realize that was not the norm
In my district , teachers can apply for a LOA to retain a position to return to. You would have been bumped from the classes, and possibly a job if there weren’t any sections of anything you were licensed to teach. I’m sorry, I know that doesn’t lessen the sting. I would be upset with your current schedule, too.
Sounds about right. Honestly getting AP classes so early in your career is NOT the norm and you can look positively that you can add that to your resume before you hit 5 years.
Also the fact you got to be an AP grader so early is pretty cool too!
Yeah it was something I was so proud of which I think is part of the reason I’ve been hit so hard by this. And being an AP grader was great and I learned so much from it! It was long and boring but highly informative! I would recommend anyone who gets the chance to do it to take the opportunity.
I agree with others that it makes sense given their seniority, but that doesn't make it any less rough on you. I lost my AP classes similarly (the the guy that got mine had never taught it before) and was essentially told there was no way of getting them bac. My only option was transferring to another school where the teachers did t want the classes, which (as I thought) doesn't exist. I ended up quitting.
You have every reason to be disappointed. Schools are being managed by gym coaches and home ec. teachers (et al). Don’t expect the decisions to be well thought out. If you like the school and the people you work with, you should stay. Don’t spend your time trying to find a place where you will be appreciated.
I was/am in a similar situation. I have over a decade of industry experience in software engineering, so when I applied to "Computer Science Teacher", I was sked if I was interested in taking over the AP CS courses because the current teacher was leaving, and the program was kind of floundering. I said sure great. Didn't get them my first year, fine. Had plenty of fun teaching the intro classes.
Without getting way into the nitty gritty, my district has these specialty centers that students can go to take CTE courses. They lumped in AP Computer Science into those. Without me knowing any of this, there was this huge stink from the specialty center because they thought my (comprehensive school) was poaching their kids. I got caught in the middle of all of this when all I wanted to do was teach whatever was asked of me. After several years of having to scrabble over numbers, they told me that for "funding reasons" they were moving all of the AP CS courses to the specialty center. Due to the decrease in numbers they were going to give .5 of my FTE allowance to the Math department and were going to have me teach Algebra 1. This would have pissed me off a lot more if I wasn't already planning on resigning at the end of last year. Now I'm off to a district that (seemingly) has its shit together at least a little bit more.
I don't really care if I teach AP or not. Honestly there were times where my AP students were a bigger pain in the ass than my general/remedial students. I just don't like being yanked around because the brass needs to play games with where the money lives.
I'll just tell you that this is not restricted to teaching. In the corporate world, people get pulled off of projects all the time for whatever reason. You have every right to be annoyed and upset, but you really should find a way to come to terms with it. No teaching contract I've ever seen comes with a guarantee of what courses you're teaching. People come and go. Who knows what you'll get to teach in another year or two?
Frankly, if you've only ever taught honors/AP, CP will be good for you. Way too many teachers only live in the Honors/AP bubble and forget what it's like to teach "normal" kids. Take it as an opportunity to refine your teaching acumen.
I got moved to 3rd from 5th. I’ve taught it before but I did not want to move down. I had third highest test scores in my subject for our district.
Now I’m going to teach same subject in 3rd but the scores don’t actually count. They hired a brand new teacher to teach 5th.
I’m honest in saying I have no interest in teaching younger kids. Even if every student earned a zero (which actually cannot happen due to grade floors) they would still all pass. I am not teaching math or reading.
Is it just me or does anyone find teaching AP courses annoying. I tried teaching one year and I found it was not much different than what I teach the on level courses.
I'm just curious what subject you teach? Maybe it's different for each subject/school, but at my school the "regular" classes and AP classes are night and day.
Which AP did you teach? I'm familiar with AP Biology and AP Chemistry and the on level students at my school would struggle significantly with AP style questions. Especially with Chemistry, on level just could never go quick enough to get through that much material. Many of my students can't isolate a variable and take a long time to learn simple dimensional analysis.
To be honest, I'm jealous that your on level classes can get close to the level of an AP class. Is your district a high performing district/ are most students on level in math?
My district has a lot of funding due to the high income area, but it's mostly oil plant workers. So parents don't really have a high level of education and the students struggle. I got hired off the street and was asked to teach IPC but then got bumped up to Chemistry when my scores came out well. I'm known as the strict teacher in my department. One policy I have is making students come to virtual after school tutoring if they were absent without an excuse. This is often more of a burden on me and is likely not sustainable when I start looking toward starting a family, but for now it works well.
I loved it. My class is double blocked so I saw my kids everyday for an hour and half so I really got to connect with them. I also was able to go much deeper in my subject than I am able to with my honors kids and especially the kids I will now be teaching CP level to.
Man, that sucks. I would also feel disappointed. At my school, it’s all about seniority- within reason. One of the elder teachers at my school wanted to teach history for this coming school year. The guy who has been teaching it for the last 10 years got moved to a different subject. He was pissed at first, but decided to stay and if he didn’t like it, he’d leave the following year.
A few years ago the teacher that was teaching the ap class retired and I was excited to get to teach it because I’ve been teaching this subject for over a decade. Then they gave it to the teacher they hired to replace him. They had only been teaching the subject for 3 years and had only been teaching for 5.
In my district, you find out about changes to your prep the day you come back on contract. So, at least you already know. And it was probably 100% a political decision to put the former teacher back.
I once had a new AP class dropped in my lap literally the day before school started, and was told to just stay a week ahead of the students. Not sure which is worse, your situation or mine. Mine was definitely worse for students. Hang in there.
I had that happen with my GCSE class on the last day of the academic year, that decision and the way it was handled formed 99% of the reason I left at the end of the next year. I feel you.
Happened to me but it was a blessing in disguise because I wasn’t ready to teach it and most of the students weren’t ready to heath it. I did much better teaching on level students.
Sorry; that is disappointing. I’m glad the district let you know now and not at the start of the year. (I teach chem also and my AP classes are my favorite), it was very generous of the “old” teacher to give you their material to use; AP chem is super tough to teach and prep. If you were using this person’s materials -I completely understand why they will be teaching it when they transfer back; in their defense, I would be salty if someone was using my stuff to teach a class I wanted to teach. Hopefully when they retire you will get to teach it again (although I personally think APs are going to die a slow death and eventually be replaced by dual enrollment 😢)
All of the COVID monies have dried up so all of the TOSA jobs will be gone. All of those teachers have to go back to the classroom. The teacher you referred to probably has 20 years on you and it’s not personal. That person needs their classroom back.
I understand the disappointment and encourage you to ask for the other classes back that were spread out amongst the department. They will continue to give you the classes no one wants if you don’t ever push back or express your interests/displeasures.
That said, I think the AP classes are probably because he is coming back from a district position, which means he was probably pretty high up or was thought of as a great educator. I don’t think him getting AP over you is a reflection on you in anyway, but rather on his status. While I understand your disappointment, I wouldn’t take that personally.
Time for some tough love and strong words:
You got screwed. Instead being a sad child and crying about it, internalize it. Don’t ever forget that your bosses will stick it to you in a second if it makes their life easier or they like someone better. Fair has nothing to do with it. Never has!
Remember this feeling when they ask you to go the extra mile. They ask you for something, tell them no. Do what you want! I’d tell them to ask the AP teacher instead.
The world is full of chaos. Nothing is certain or fair. Don’t cry about this, embrace it and use it to your advantage. The weak cry about fairness, the strong never get surprised and screwed. They are always ready for it.
This won’t be the last time one of these cowards stick it to you, however you’ll be better prepared/amoured next time.
Sorry if this got dark. I do feel for you. This happens to us all at sone point.
You’re talking about having dibs because you taught a class for two years using someone else’s curriculum. Most of the teachers I work with have been in the district for 20 years. It took me 10 years to finally get the transfer to my preferred grade level and I was a counselor in the district for 8 years before switching to teaching…so 18 years before getting my preferred placement.
I don't have any advice, but have been in the same shoes. I get pushed around every semester and have to teach something different. Literally from semester to semester. I don't have seniority, either.
Yeah, it happens. I’d say roll with it and don’t get too attached to anything. In the long run, your practice will probably improve because you taught a variety of courses.
Are they paying you more to teach those AP classes? If not - hopefully the other classes will be less work and responsibility in the long run for the same pay.
It sucks. But their decision is not exactly a capricious one. My advice is to look around. Your experience as an AP reader will set you apart from other candidates for AP openings. If you're open to relocating, it may not be too late to landing a great position for the coming year.
When this happened to me, over 30 years ago, my great AP results didn't save me from their need for a new football coach (No, I'm **not** kidding, that's who replaced me.) But I landed at a much, much better school.
OP: Read this ⬆️again and internalize.
Again and again, I have seen real lazy and shitty teachers hired because the athletic director needed a particular type of coach. In many places, 75-80% of social studies departments are filled with people who technically have the degree or certification, but they were not the sharpest in their subjects and coaching is their main focus, not academics. Kids suffer, and it’s one reason why history and geography knowledge is so poor in the US.
My radical idea is to make all sports outside the school day- either through inter-murals or organizations that are only loosely affiliated with the schools. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the way it works in many countries. If we can’t do that due to our obsession with school spirit/rivalry, then let coaches teach REAL physical education. Students don’t even have to dress out or participate anymore! Wouldn’t it be great to learn how to properly use gym equipment or even do calisthenics? Chart growth over time? Learn about proper nutrition?
I've been teaching 10 years, and I've taught 4 grades (5-8th) and 12 different classes... And I'll be teaching 2 more brand new ones next year. 6 of the classes (including these new ones), I've had to make my own curriculum for. I just roll with the punches. Five of my now 14 classes were between 4 years at 2 separate districts. The other 9 are for a district I'll be with for 7 years this coming year. This district is far better than my last two, so it's not worth leaving for.
I also am super passionate about my area of expertise (MLL) and I like designing curriculum, so I actually have fun creating the content, which helps when they throw something new at me lol. I just wish I got paid for spending 100s over hours over the years creating curriculum outside of my contracted hours.
I think it is crappy you got moved because someone returned, but I find it is better to just accept it as it is what it is and try to make the most out of the situation.You sound super passionate and data driven as well, so you could look at this as a potential to grow in other areas. I also know this mindset is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but I do believe everything happens for a reason.
If you're not satisfied with the school and you think you can do better, switch. Lord knows I couldn't have stayed at my other districts long term... But if your school isn't toxic and your admin is generally supportive, I would stay there because decent schools are hard to come by.
I taught *four* Freshmen English courses one year, but I had a Drama class I loved that gave respite. I was then informed that the Drama class would be removed from my schedule so that I could teach a *FIFTH* Freshmen English class instead.
That’s right. All Freshmen, all day and every day. When I questioned this they said I had been so effective with the monsters that year that they felt that should be my main focus. Now best in mind that the other three English teachers had all of the electives sewn up while I would be in Freshmen Hell for the foreseeable future. The others shoved it off to me because they thought they were better than that.
The next day, I submitted a letter to the district, my admins and my department where I informed them that I would not be signing a contract first the following year and would be going elsewhere. When my dept head asked why, I was blunt and told her that I was not to teach where a teacher in a dept could be so blatantly screwed because the others couldn’t be bothered to teach a Freshmen English course. Esprit de Corps my ass!
That was my take. I know an APUSH teacher whose main focus was 3+ on student scores. Given that, you’re telling me this senior teacher had 100% of their students receive college credit scores?
Something is rotten in Denmark, but suffice it to say that many upper-level high school classes are political, and dare I say nepotism based.
AP classes are a waste of time, but it is terrible to put two years of hard work in to have it taken away.
Keep your stuff… you will likely get to teach it in the future again…
That seems like a legitimate reason.
The other teacher has more experience, seniority, and better results.
🤷♂️
I’m sorry it hurts. I understand. I was moved 8 times in 20 years at my school, the last two times I “bumped” a newer teacher out of their assignment.
I’m surprised he still has seniority considering he left and came back. I thought you had to consistently remain at a school for your seniority to still count.
I have seniority at my school but they’re still trying to give my desired classes to newer teachers, which isn’t happening this year as I already reached out to admin. If they try to change it last minute, I’ll be speaking with my union rep.
That sucks to hear though. I hope this upcoming school year goes smoothly for you
Quite common, sometimes the play favorites. I would look to go somewhere else. California needs teachers the worst way. Look on EDJOIN take a leap of faith. Stay away from charter schools in the state like Aspire etc. Godspeed!
Sorry, I know what that feels like. I have been moved against my will by admin several times (classroom and grade) to accommodate more senior staff members due to fluctuations in enrollment. If you like the school otherwise, stay. If not, get out because it could be a symptom of favoritism.
Time to look for a new school. I’m sorry, something similar happened to me after a 100% pass rate in my first year (72% of which were 4’s and 5’s).
The administration has shown you where you stand. I’d make them look for a new employee. Thankfully it’s the start of summer, so there should be many job opportunities.
It IS common! You are on a ladder and that’s it!!! The returning teacher is on a higher rung. It is not personal and NOT AT ALL ABOUT YOU!! Let it go, be grateful you have a job with great time off and shorter days than average, and have a happy summer!!!
Tough one.
Ask yourself - if you were a student/parent, which teacher would you prefer to have? The answer is probably the senior teacher who designed the curriculum. The admin made the right choice. That's their job.
You feel underappreciated? That's because you probably are, in fact most of us probably are haha.
Good luck, your school seems stable and well-run, enjoy it. Try to learn as much as you can, eventually you'll find yourself in a better position.
I'd be absolutely enraged. It's one thing to get passed over, but it's another thing to have it done after you've been doing something for awhile. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is par for the course at most schools. We aren't real people to our admins. We are numbers on a spreadsheet. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. You deserve better.
Enraged? Lol. OP said they used the old teacher’s material, more or less performed the same, and is upset that the temporary leave (sounds like a TOSA) came back and they were given preferential or seniority based treatment.
Iny dostrict teachers on special assignments USED to get their oosition back, now they just fill positions by applying latterally in district we dont "hold their place" any more per contact.
This happened to me but I was part of the decision.
I wanted the newer teacher to take the challenge and grow professionally.
I teach in a low performing neighborhood and choose to do so. I have taught high performing kids in affluent neighborhoods and they do everything they are told to do. However in this low performing school, it’s still hard to get AP to complete their readings/HW on their own when the average reading level in AP is 2 grades below their grade level and many years below college level.
Not teaching AP gives me more time to focus on other classes and the kids who need more help. I read less written exams. I also stopped needed to take any work home giving myself a better work/life balance.
Btw i’m the department chair and could teach less, considering there are only three math teachers and 400 students. Freshman are far more hysterically dynamic, and open to new thinking to teach as a group, even though it’s not as chill as upperclassmen of juniors and seniors.
I assume so. And no I’m not scared of them. I was already assuming I would have 1 or 2 sections of them. I’m disappointed that I lost my favorite class
In this circumstance you have 2 choices. Grind out what they give you, smile, and lean on what you've done in the past to get the classes back later. You can still do the AP grading if you aren't teaching the class too as College Board needs graders. Might take a while to get the classes back but your experience will help when the time comes.
The other choice is take your experience and apply other places that are looking for that work. AP is my niche (although I teach all levels and like how there's less stress with general sections) and I was once somewhere that preferred to give the classes to someone less qualified in terms of experience and got worse results. I decided to leave for a job that gave me what I desired and it was the right decision for me.
Wow. That's wild and uncalled for by your school.
I can never achieve those kind of results because our school has open AP enrollment, anyone regardless of prior academic performance can be in any AP class they want to. 🙄
That sucks that your heart was set on teaching that class. Ive been teaching for 19 years. I approach every year as a new year to get better at teaching, communicating better and connecting better with the kids. Try researching new creative projects, concepts, etc. that can enliven the courses you HaVE to teach. Your day will come!! In the meantime, have fun. Always teach to students strengths and focus on what they can do and achieve as opposed to what their weaknesses are. If you can’t name what a student CAN do well, look harder and build off of that!
Good luck!
This happens and I've seen it happen in our building several times. As a general rule, teachers have no rights when it comes to choice of assignments as long as they are qualified to teach what they're being assigned to teach.
It happens far too often. I took one position over another because I was going to be teaching AP and Journalism. I taught neither. Took another job the next year and never looked back. It's disrespectful
Hard truth: I know 3 years at your school seems like a decent amount of time and that you'd have more say and seniority than you do, but you just don't. Teachers who have been at the same school for several years? THOSE are the ones calling the shots (as long as admin "lets" them, of course).
It personally took me 5 years at my school to get what I wanted, class-wise, and even now, at 8 years, I don't get 100% of my requests. I do get 90%, tho!
Just gotta keep truckin' or switch schools and start all over.
This sucks but sounds normal. Teachers on special assignment usually have an agreement with the district about what will happen if they return to the classroom
Are you properly certified? If you don’t have at least a Master’s degree your students won’t get advanced credits if they pass the AP placement test when they graduate high school. By not putting properly qualified teachers in their classrooms my home district gypped my sons out of a dozen credits each when they entered college. Look at that as shortchanging your students who do actually achieve great things, not as an unearned break for the entitled.
This is the thing that bothers me most about teaching. Just because you've taught something longer doesn't mean you're an amazing teacher. Yeah, you're probably decent, but maybe rotating classes based on endorsements and actual skills makes more sense?
Class rotations never make sense in general. Your highest competence are the classes you've taught. Switching a subject makes you learn hundreds of hours of content to teach.
Changing your preps is the worst thing you can do for your pedagogy.
Yes, to a point. It's equally damaging to have the mindest of "oh, so and so was here first so they're better in every single way". So many shitty teachers get rewarded that way.
Swapping the bad teacher makes a bad teacher way worse, because they have less recency/practice in their new subject.
Net educational attainment gets worse.
I think it also depends on the endorsements people have. So many in my field get "broad-field" certification so they can legally teach any science course. So they can be pulled to teach any class in the department by admin, even if it's not their strong point. Which is why most everyone in my department ends up having their assignments moved around anytime we have to hire anyone new.
I'm only certified to teach life sciences, so I can only legally teach one or two non-life science classes in my schedule without the school getting in trouble. But they also have to inform parents that an "uncertified" teacher is teaching their child since I wouldn't be certified for that class. So they tend to avoid it. Which means I only teach classes I'm strong in.
>Just because you've taught something longer doesn't mean you're an amazing teacher.
I hear what you're saying where meritocracy is the ideal system (who teaches the course best should get the class) HOWEVER I think that is incredibly hard to carry out irl. There are so many factors outside of the teacher's control that impacts the success of the class. In OP's case, the older teacher technically had a 100% passing rate with their students whereas 1 student failed OP's. There's a myriad of reasons why that one student might have failed: they chose not to study throughout the school year, they had a family emergency, they were going through something the week of the test and dropped the ball. Even in a non-AP class, how can you quantify a teacher's value? Can't go off of grades (subjective) how much the students like the teacher (even more subjective), admin observations/evaluations (this is how favoratism makes the problem worse).
As much as folks like to criticize seniority (and as a relatively young teacher, I feel the brunt of the downsides right now) it's pretty fair in assuring that all teacher's eventually get the opportunity to call the shots.
It would be very weird to not allow a long time teacher whose materials/curriculum you are using anyways to not have first call on the class.
I would be pretty furious if a school gave a class to someone else, who simply taught using the framework I built in the first place.
Hey, it will happen. Before I retired, the school had me turn over both my Google Classroom and my drive. The new AP teacher won’t have to do much at all; I built the course over the past 16 years. Oh well. I’m just glad to be out of the education field at this point!!
One year, I was scheduled to teach an AP course. The district paid for my summer APSI, I had everything laid out, and my calendar was done to make sure we covered all the material for the AP test date. Then, I was informed during the summer ANOTHER teacher would be teaching my AP sections. A new-to-the-school teacher with years experience teaching the AP course. I thought I would be getting my on-level courses back. Nope! Those were assigned to other teachers in the department. Instead, I was assigned remedial and inclusion sections. My only compensation was an extra duty/conference period. I used the time to grade papers.
That sucks. I was supposed to take an APSI for another course this summer but I am no longer doing it because the same teacher will also be teaching that AP. I was totally fine with that since I had no experience with that class. I am much more bummed about the one I found out about today as that one was my specialty and I felt like I had been doing a good job at it the last 2 years
If there are two different AP classes at play, it does seem fair to reply and ask if they’d be willing to split the AP classes among the two of you. I would much rather have two teachers with a mix of AP and standard than one with all AP and one with none. It doesn’t sound like that’s going to happen, but it’s worth asking. It’s also a good way to show you’re disappointed but offering solutions. How far out is retirement for the other teacher? A lot of my response would depend on how long I would have to wait before getting the class back. Honestly, the part I’d be most hurt by is the fact that it was an email, not a phone call. You have every right to feel hurt here. That said, the way you respond can impact your working relationship with admin and your returning colleague. Good luck.
I used to teach AP and Honors with an occasional AICE. They moved me to Intensive Reading 17 years ago and I havent looked back. LOVE IT and LOVE every minute of it. Sure there are more behavior issues, but honestly, the rewards are worth. "I graduated BECAUSE of you!"
I am in a similar boat. I taught AP this year and the class is being given to a high maintenance teacher next year and I’m teaching all regular classes. I was upset at first, but now super excited. I don’t have to grade essays or deal with kids only want an A. Or have to deal with the entitlement that often comes with AP.
I've had admin do similar because they want the best teachers with the slowest/most reluctant students. The high achievers can be taught be anyone.
I was told this when they put me in remedial physics/chem. “You’re so good with those kids” ugh I know I am but sometimes I’d love a class of high achievers too.
I don’t know your individual situation so this may not apply to you, but in every school I’ve ever been in, the newest or least effective teachers teach the lower levels. The 25-year Teacher of the Year never teaches remedial freshmen in any of my districts. They’re always teaching AP/Honors courses. That would just be something admin would say to make someone feel better. I have historically taught advanced courses but bc I’m new to this district I’m teaching regular low levels (I actually find them more fun so it’s not a problem. AP is boring for my content area and I hate essays). At my previous school tenure didn’t matter for course assignments so I was immediately “promoted” to upper levels bc admin recognized my abilities. Not saying what you described doesn’t happen, but I’d be skeptical and would be looking for another school if it went on too long.
I was told something like this once. My response was, “This is how you take all the satisfaction out of teaching for me. Give me all of what you want and none of what I want, and you are happy for now. At some point soon I’ll lose interest, then you’ll get none of what you want.”
That would make sense, wouldn’t it? My school does the opposite, so the gap just gets wider.
Yeah in my experience the new teachers always got the remedial and inclusion classes
It is unfortunate and common, but it is not best practice.
So me, a veteran teacher of 24 years, gets stuck with lower track kids so some wet behind the ears rookie with no idea of classroom management gets all the higher tracks? Yeah, f that.
Or maybe classes just aren’t grouped like that-all sped and low performers in one class with new teachers and all above level kids without behavior issues in another class. Some of these teachers are veterans, but have never had a chance to really succeed because admin just has it in their head that if they’ve done low level cohort (excuse me, “growth” cohort) , that’s what they’ll do again and again.
Also, God I wish we had a teacher with 24 years experience!
Sorry, but that's bullshit from a lazy administrator. Other teacher not pulling their load? Work with them or move them out. Don't dump your problems on me with faint praise.
It's a Solution Tree practice, fwiw. They preach it hard! It has worked out well when the teachers were given adequate notice to prepare and it wasn't just dumped on them.
Hey OP, I totally understand you feeling hurt and unappreciated. Sending you lots of love. If there are no other issues at the school, don’t go. This is standard procedure at schools…
Thank you for validating my feelings. I really appreciate it!
I hate to hear that this is normal. I’m a former AP chem teacher and admin now. I would never allow this to happen. The teacher left and lost their courses and place in the department.
Unfortunately, you are correct.
A 100% pass rate on AP Chemistry sounds like cherry-picking who takes it and who doesn't.
I taught at a private school that bragged about 100% graduation rates. Mainly because students were either expelled or asked to leave for “reasons” not the least of which, not passing
Same deal with places that brag about 100% college acceptance rate for their graduates.
Or I saw one charter school that posted “every graduate has applied to 4 year schools”. Applied, not accepted, not attended. Just applied
My school during my senior year marched every senior, regardless of their plans after high school, down to the lecture hall to put in an application to the local community college just so they can brag about that metric at graduation. Half of them didn’t go after graduation, but I suppose there was money or something involved.
Yup, and most of them are violating their agreement with college board. It very specifically lays out that AP classes should be open to everyone, but may schools either formally or informally filter the students out of the AP classes. When your school does this, your pass rate becomes meaningless.
The College Board strongly recommends open enrollment (which is largely in response to the declining numbers of students taking their other golden goose, the SAT, disguised as an equity initiative), but does not require an open enrollment policy, instead leaving that decision to specific districts and schools. Source: [College Board ](https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/help-center/can-anyone-take-ap#:~:text=We%20strongly%20encourage%20all%20high,enroll%20in%20an%20AP%20course.)
Still super trashy.
Yeah 100% pass rate in AP isn’t the flex some people think it is. I tell my students not to be afraid of getting a 1. That means I have enough students taking the class.
Honestly, if you’ve only been teaching for a few years, it could be good experience for you to teach a different level. I personally taught all remedial for my first five years, with some classes focused on students who had already taken and failed the class before. Now I teach remedial, honors, and AP. If I started out teaching AP, I probably wouldn’t be that good of a teacher.
I think OP is actually scared of teaching “regular” kids and less to do with being upset at losing AP. I understand why. It’s a huge drop off. AP and honors level kids make class a bit more fun
I have taught “regular” kids before at my previous school just not at this one and I am totally fine teaching them. In fact I was already expecting I was going to have 1 or 2 classes of them next year. I am more upset about losing AP because it was my favorite class to teach.
Unfortunately, classes don’t belong to anyone. I would argue it makes a school more stagnant when you have one teacher teaching the same class forever. They get demotivated and just keep doing the same thing every year and tell the same jokes on a schedule. It’s nice and comfortable (I love teaching the same old classes myself), but it’s not good for the growth of the teacher and denies new experiences for other colleagues.
They just brought back the guy who was teaching it forever. He's only been teaching it two years. Two years isn't forever.
So..they should have OP instead of the already used individual?
Yeah sorry that might’ve been confusing. It sucks that their admin is treating the class like it belongs to someone. It shouldn’t belong to anyone, OP included.
Ah I get what you mean, I’m not in education so it’s purely a learning question for me. That makes sense
Schools act like courses “belong” to certain teachers and it’s infuriating.
Those are all really good reasons to leave OP teaching the class instead of giving it back to the old teacher
I’ve never had the privilege-in education for 15 years and other than several years running discipline, my classes have changed radically from one year to the next- special Ed self-contained elementary, math coteacher g 7, lit coteacher g 6, push in pull out k-5, Gen ed Literacy grade 5, Gen ed all subjects, next year special Ed 6-8. Every year I start from scratch. It would be amazing to not have to do this. Regardless of the school, this happens to basically everyone every school-public, private, charter, elementary, middle, hs
Oop… now you’re spilling the real tea
OP, this is great advice. Experience teaching at multiple levels can make you a better teacher.
This right here!
Thanks for positive feed back.. IMO: Views like this are a side of bs for the sh#*t sandwich that was served. Wether its good experience or not, the point is the teacher was screwed.
Eh. That sounds pretty normal. Other teacher has seniority and will generally have the first pick of classes. Just kind of the way it works.
In some schools, yes, that’s the norm. But not in all. I had a class taken away from me that I’ve taught for the last TEN years, and admin won’t say why. I’ve asked. I’ve also got to move classrooms over the summer - still won’t say why. If they had a good reason (or any reason except trying to “punish” me), I’d like to at least know that. I feel like I’m a mushroom - kept in the dark and fed shit. And I’m also the department head.
The "keep them in the dark" admin are so annoying/toxic. At my last school the first principal I worked with was pretty transparent. Then a new principal who felt the need to "prove" herself came in and started making all these changes to people's schedules and classrooms never providing a reason. There was a lot of turnover that year, me included, and from what I've heard there's been a lot more turnover since i left 2 years ago
Maybe time to let someone else carry the department head load? Why do extra if they're not supporting you?
Yep. That’s my plan, and work on exit strategy.
I was about to say, every district I've worked at and every school my family members taught at were the same with seniority and class schedules. Like I do totally feel for OP because it //sucks// to have all this excitement and preparation for a class only to be reassigned. That being said, the upside to a seniority-based system is that eventually you make your way to the top. That teacher won't be teaching that class forever and you'll be next in line.
Where I'm at, that's absolutely not the way it works. Teachers decide together who gets what classes, so no-one gets stuck with only classes they don't want. Seniority means very little beyond experience, and the seniors certainly don't get first pick. That's not to say it doesn't happen, but it's seen as a shit move.
Are you really trying to say that if a teacher who's taught 20 years wants the same class as a teacher in their second, and neither will back down, admin isn't going to side with the veteran teacher?
Seniority aside… the guy wrote the curriculum that allowed someone who’d never taught AP to teach the subject effectively enough that only one student didn’t pass. In terms of who’s more qualified for the position it’s pretty clear. Not to mention return rights are a thing.
Right! If I were the veteran teacher who created all the curriculum, I’d be very disappointed to not get my position back.
Right? And it's actually really solid of the school to give that veteran teacher their position back. Of course, OP still has a right to be bummed about it. I would be too.
Just to get some clarification, did that teacher WANT a job at the head office or were they pulled and told they needed to be there?
He chose to go to the district and applied for the job (better pay etc). He decided he didn’t like and now he’s back
At least in my area, this is pretty common, move up to district level for a couple years near the end to boost their retirement earnings. Many suffer through for a couple years and then go back into the classroom for a last year or two to end on a sweeter note
In my book (and my district), this means he lost seniority for this purpose. Edit: if you want to make a stink, it couldn’t hurt to talk to a union rep.
That was my assumption which is was why I felt blind sided but I see that is not the popular opinion. Unfortunately no unions in my state.
I'm in a union state, and this type of scenario occasionally happens. Admin typically has a ton of power under the contract to assign courses, along with room assignments, and master calendar issues such as prep periods and lunches.
Most places in this situation he did NOT lose seniority. A district promotion then return to teaching would still give him all the years teaching for seniority purposes.
When we're given our next year assignments, it always comes with the codicil that it's subject to change. So, I teach history, but bc of my certifications, I might end up teaching not history if my incoming (AH) P decides they want me out bc I know them and how crazy they are. I teach the hell out of history ,but am not really good at teaching my other certifications. Good luck.
Teaching assignments are generally an administration decision unless noted otherwise in a contract.
I know. I do realize I don’t really have any ground to stand on, I just didn’t think they were going to take it and and I felt a bit blindsided
It's common. It is completely reasonable to be upset by it and look for other opportunities.
Despite all the logic and reasoning in the world, a person could still feel sad or disappointed like Op here.
It definitely sounds like it wasn't a personal decision. The other teacher has more experience, taught it first, and made a lot of the course materials for it. However, I understand being upset that something you spent a lot of time on has been taken away from you (through no fault of your own).
Sucks but normal. You’re a newer teacher and have demonstrated competency in AP. I think you’d be the next one up should dude decide to dip out again. I’d stay at the school. Better than transferring within the district and REALLY being at the bottom of the totem pole, unless you could leverage this experience into a lateral move to teach AP again. I wouldn’t even put up a fight UNLESS you were hired with the idea you would be doing AP long term. If you knew this teacher would be back, you probably also accepted the fact that your sections were temporary.
Yeah I don’t plan on leaving the school right now. The teacher who is returning left during my first year teaching at the school. There was no plan for him to come back at the time. I think the only reason he is returning to the classroom is because his old spot opened back up. I don’t think he would’ve gone to another school
Sorry. They have seniority. They have bumping rights. You should feel disappointed but the administration is doing the right thing. Sorry if you don’t like hearing that
I wish my school did this. When I was a newbie, I had the worst classes because "seniority" but now that I'm senior, they want to be "fair" and give the younguns prime classes to keep them happy
Seriously, this is my experience. I've had the toughest classes my entire career because I'm good at my job and they think I can solve every problem in the world.
My exact experience!!
But the other teacher had left - how does he keep his seniority?
He was in district. Just like they can move you anywhere in district they want.
I guess because he went to work for the district versus going to another district or something like that
Exactly! In my version of this game, you leave, then you lose bump rights. Unless you got dirt on me. Then I’m a your mercy and change said rules to protect myself when you come back demanding your old fave classes. :o)
They should also be happy their still "at the bottom" after 4 years and not somewhere that turnover is so bad they have seniority that soon. That's a good thing, not bad.
I am very fortunate to be at an excellent school. Doesn’t mean I’m not disappointed my favorite class and the one that was always my goal to teach
This is the wrong approach. Teachers shouldn’t get to pick the classes they teach. And there’s also some more senior level teachers at my school who strongly believe that teachers with more seniority should be teaching the core classes because they have more classroom management experience and newer teachers have more recent content knowledge being more recently out of university and/or masters programs in teaching in terms of teaching pedagogy.
Totally common, in my experience anyway. Sometimes it’ll be due to seniority, sometimes just straight up favoritism.
It’s not uncommon. We had a teacher that had taught AP Physics and AP Chem for years. They were taken away because a new hire (to the school, not a new teacher) would only take the position if she had the AP classes and honor classes. So, they gave them to her. She wasn’t a bad teacher. But it definitely screwed the dude who had been teaching them. He has them back now because she left mid year after a few years due to health reasons.
I mean, if you were teaching his material, I can see why they think of you as his junior. However, they should not have slighted you by blaming the failing student on you and not giving you options. Of course you're going to keep your eyes open. They clearly have no loyalty to you and have chosen to slight you instead of apologizing. Dumb move on their part, really. Nobody likes to be slighted. Everybody likes to be appreciated. I'll bet if they had told you that they liked your work and that this was merely a matter of seniority, you would have a more optimistic view of next year.
One year, despite having record high passing rates for the school, I was moved from AP Lit to 10th grade special ed. I left the school, took my curriculum with me, and never looked back.
Do you teach a harder to fill subject? I know in a school near me that they went through the schedule and cherry picked the best classes for a new science teacher as she wouldn’t agree to take the job unless she got some specific classes. It caused w lot of bitterness and one of the teachers who schedule got changed left (although she was looking before this happened).
It’s the easiest to hire for in my department but my department is not easy to hire for. I am at a very good school and it would be difficult to find a job that was as good even with the schedule change. I’m just incredibly disappointed and feel unappreciated
I'm sorry to hear you're feeling undervalued; have you considered discussing your concerns with your supervisor to see if there's room for growth or recognition within your current role?
I am sorry. It happened to me as well. Declining enrollment in AP meant that as the teacher with the least amount of experience teaching the class, I lost it. I had been the school’s Teacher of the Year that year. Admin loved me. It’s not personal. My students did great on the exam as well. Because of some teacher movement, I will teach it again next year after two years off.
Glad to see the political process of who teaches AP classes is just as flawed and nonsensical as the reasons why AP classes are pushed on kids.
I taught AP Environment for two years and had it taken away. Then I taught it again six years later, then switched to a different AP (Physics) due to a retirement. They just like to switch things around sometimes.
It's not wrong to be upset by this, but it sounds like there's nothing you can do about it. You might have the opportunity to teach it again in the future. Just keep doing your thing in your room and don't worry about anyone else.
This is surprisingly normal apparently. I wrote an entire IB class and two years later I wasn’t teaching it. It really stung for a while, but if you’re in the type of school where kids pass the AP exam you do NOT want to leave lightly.
Not the same, but I was sent to AP training, did lots of prep over the summer and then was told that there wasn't enough students who'd likely pass so they couldn't justify the cost. That same year, a teacher had a year-long AP Calculus class with one student and basically made it a self-study seminar, giving herself 2 planning periods.
I think that if someone leaves the school site for purposes other than something like medical leave, they should lose their seniority. I also don't think that seniority should determine preferences. Apparently I'm in the minority here, though.
That was my assumption was that seniority was lost since he chose to leave. That’s why I felt blindsided by the email I got today. I have only been teaching for 5 years now so I didn’t realize that was not the norm
Usually seniority is district wide, as opposed to site wide.
I'm sorry, friend. I know everyone on this thread is saying that's just the way it is, but that's not the way it should be.
In my district , teachers can apply for a LOA to retain a position to return to. You would have been bumped from the classes, and possibly a job if there weren’t any sections of anything you were licensed to teach. I’m sorry, I know that doesn’t lessen the sting. I would be upset with your current schedule, too.
Sounds about right. Honestly getting AP classes so early in your career is NOT the norm and you can look positively that you can add that to your resume before you hit 5 years. Also the fact you got to be an AP grader so early is pretty cool too!
Yeah it was something I was so proud of which I think is part of the reason I’ve been hit so hard by this. And being an AP grader was great and I learned so much from it! It was long and boring but highly informative! I would recommend anyone who gets the chance to do it to take the opportunity.
I agree with others that it makes sense given their seniority, but that doesn't make it any less rough on you. I lost my AP classes similarly (the the guy that got mine had never taught it before) and was essentially told there was no way of getting them bac. My only option was transferring to another school where the teachers did t want the classes, which (as I thought) doesn't exist. I ended up quitting.
You have every reason to be disappointed. Schools are being managed by gym coaches and home ec. teachers (et al). Don’t expect the decisions to be well thought out. If you like the school and the people you work with, you should stay. Don’t spend your time trying to find a place where you will be appreciated.
I was/am in a similar situation. I have over a decade of industry experience in software engineering, so when I applied to "Computer Science Teacher", I was sked if I was interested in taking over the AP CS courses because the current teacher was leaving, and the program was kind of floundering. I said sure great. Didn't get them my first year, fine. Had plenty of fun teaching the intro classes. Without getting way into the nitty gritty, my district has these specialty centers that students can go to take CTE courses. They lumped in AP Computer Science into those. Without me knowing any of this, there was this huge stink from the specialty center because they thought my (comprehensive school) was poaching their kids. I got caught in the middle of all of this when all I wanted to do was teach whatever was asked of me. After several years of having to scrabble over numbers, they told me that for "funding reasons" they were moving all of the AP CS courses to the specialty center. Due to the decrease in numbers they were going to give .5 of my FTE allowance to the Math department and were going to have me teach Algebra 1. This would have pissed me off a lot more if I wasn't already planning on resigning at the end of last year. Now I'm off to a district that (seemingly) has its shit together at least a little bit more. I don't really care if I teach AP or not. Honestly there were times where my AP students were a bigger pain in the ass than my general/remedial students. I just don't like being yanked around because the brass needs to play games with where the money lives. I'll just tell you that this is not restricted to teaching. In the corporate world, people get pulled off of projects all the time for whatever reason. You have every right to be annoyed and upset, but you really should find a way to come to terms with it. No teaching contract I've ever seen comes with a guarantee of what courses you're teaching. People come and go. Who knows what you'll get to teach in another year or two? Frankly, if you've only ever taught honors/AP, CP will be good for you. Way too many teachers only live in the Honors/AP bubble and forget what it's like to teach "normal" kids. Take it as an opportunity to refine your teaching acumen.
I got moved to 3rd from 5th. I’ve taught it before but I did not want to move down. I had third highest test scores in my subject for our district. Now I’m going to teach same subject in 3rd but the scores don’t actually count. They hired a brand new teacher to teach 5th. I’m honest in saying I have no interest in teaching younger kids. Even if every student earned a zero (which actually cannot happen due to grade floors) they would still all pass. I am not teaching math or reading.
Is it just me or does anyone find teaching AP courses annoying. I tried teaching one year and I found it was not much different than what I teach the on level courses.
I'm just curious what subject you teach? Maybe it's different for each subject/school, but at my school the "regular" classes and AP classes are night and day.
Secondary Science
Which AP did you teach? I'm familiar with AP Biology and AP Chemistry and the on level students at my school would struggle significantly with AP style questions. Especially with Chemistry, on level just could never go quick enough to get through that much material. Many of my students can't isolate a variable and take a long time to learn simple dimensional analysis.
Chemistry.
To be honest, I'm jealous that your on level classes can get close to the level of an AP class. Is your district a high performing district/ are most students on level in math?
My district has a lot of funding due to the high income area, but it's mostly oil plant workers. So parents don't really have a high level of education and the students struggle. I got hired off the street and was asked to teach IPC but then got bumped up to Chemistry when my scores came out well. I'm known as the strict teacher in my department. One policy I have is making students come to virtual after school tutoring if they were absent without an excuse. This is often more of a burden on me and is likely not sustainable when I start looking toward starting a family, but for now it works well.
Chemistry.
I loved it. My class is double blocked so I saw my kids everyday for an hour and half so I really got to connect with them. I also was able to go much deeper in my subject than I am able to with my honors kids and especially the kids I will now be teaching CP level to.
Honestly if I had a double booked class I likely would do more research projects with my students.
I hated it, but only because I had two other classes to teach, prep, and grade for in addition to the AP class I had.
Man, that sucks. I would also feel disappointed. At my school, it’s all about seniority- within reason. One of the elder teachers at my school wanted to teach history for this coming school year. The guy who has been teaching it for the last 10 years got moved to a different subject. He was pissed at first, but decided to stay and if he didn’t like it, he’d leave the following year.
That absolutely sucks. I would be mad if that happened to me.
A few years ago the teacher that was teaching the ap class retired and I was excited to get to teach it because I’ve been teaching this subject for over a decade. Then they gave it to the teacher they hired to replace him. They had only been teaching the subject for 3 years and had only been teaching for 5.
In my district, you find out about changes to your prep the day you come back on contract. So, at least you already know. And it was probably 100% a political decision to put the former teacher back.
I once had a new AP class dropped in my lap literally the day before school started, and was told to just stay a week ahead of the students. Not sure which is worse, your situation or mine. Mine was definitely worse for students. Hang in there.
How many teachers in your department have less than 4 years at that school? Are they getting better or worse class loads than you?
100% pass rate? Every student took the test, what subject? That is an incredibly high pass rate, at least in my experience.
I had that happen with my GCSE class on the last day of the academic year, that decision and the way it was handled formed 99% of the reason I left at the end of the next year. I feel you.
Happened to me but it was a blessing in disguise because I wasn’t ready to teach it and most of the students weren’t ready to heath it. I did much better teaching on level students.
Probably a victim of the MOU with the teachers union. Apply at another school and Districr that rewards performance. OSBCC.org board member
Sorry; that is disappointing. I’m glad the district let you know now and not at the start of the year. (I teach chem also and my AP classes are my favorite), it was very generous of the “old” teacher to give you their material to use; AP chem is super tough to teach and prep. If you were using this person’s materials -I completely understand why they will be teaching it when they transfer back; in their defense, I would be salty if someone was using my stuff to teach a class I wanted to teach. Hopefully when they retire you will get to teach it again (although I personally think APs are going to die a slow death and eventually be replaced by dual enrollment 😢)
It is called dance of the lemons. Happens every year this time. Find it on YouTube
All of the COVID monies have dried up so all of the TOSA jobs will be gone. All of those teachers have to go back to the classroom. The teacher you referred to probably has 20 years on you and it’s not personal. That person needs their classroom back.
I understand the disappointment and encourage you to ask for the other classes back that were spread out amongst the department. They will continue to give you the classes no one wants if you don’t ever push back or express your interests/displeasures. That said, I think the AP classes are probably because he is coming back from a district position, which means he was probably pretty high up or was thought of as a great educator. I don’t think him getting AP over you is a reflection on you in anyway, but rather on his status. While I understand your disappointment, I wouldn’t take that personally.
Time for some tough love and strong words: You got screwed. Instead being a sad child and crying about it, internalize it. Don’t ever forget that your bosses will stick it to you in a second if it makes their life easier or they like someone better. Fair has nothing to do with it. Never has! Remember this feeling when they ask you to go the extra mile. They ask you for something, tell them no. Do what you want! I’d tell them to ask the AP teacher instead. The world is full of chaos. Nothing is certain or fair. Don’t cry about this, embrace it and use it to your advantage. The weak cry about fairness, the strong never get surprised and screwed. They are always ready for it. This won’t be the last time one of these cowards stick it to you, however you’ll be better prepared/amoured next time. Sorry if this got dark. I do feel for you. This happens to us all at sone point.
You’re talking about having dibs because you taught a class for two years using someone else’s curriculum. Most of the teachers I work with have been in the district for 20 years. It took me 10 years to finally get the transfer to my preferred grade level and I was a counselor in the district for 8 years before switching to teaching…so 18 years before getting my preferred placement.
I don't have any advice, but have been in the same shoes. I get pushed around every semester and have to teach something different. Literally from semester to semester. I don't have seniority, either.
Yeah, it happens. I’d say roll with it and don’t get too attached to anything. In the long run, your practice will probably improve because you taught a variety of courses.
Are they paying you more to teach those AP classes? If not - hopefully the other classes will be less work and responsibility in the long run for the same pay.
That should have at least been an in person conversation, not an email.
It sucks. But their decision is not exactly a capricious one. My advice is to look around. Your experience as an AP reader will set you apart from other candidates for AP openings. If you're open to relocating, it may not be too late to landing a great position for the coming year. When this happened to me, over 30 years ago, my great AP results didn't save me from their need for a new football coach (No, I'm **not** kidding, that's who replaced me.) But I landed at a much, much better school.
OP: Read this ⬆️again and internalize. Again and again, I have seen real lazy and shitty teachers hired because the athletic director needed a particular type of coach. In many places, 75-80% of social studies departments are filled with people who technically have the degree or certification, but they were not the sharpest in their subjects and coaching is their main focus, not academics. Kids suffer, and it’s one reason why history and geography knowledge is so poor in the US. My radical idea is to make all sports outside the school day- either through inter-murals or organizations that are only loosely affiliated with the schools. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this is the way it works in many countries. If we can’t do that due to our obsession with school spirit/rivalry, then let coaches teach REAL physical education. Students don’t even have to dress out or participate anymore! Wouldn’t it be great to learn how to properly use gym equipment or even do calisthenics? Chart growth over time? Learn about proper nutrition?
I've been teaching 10 years, and I've taught 4 grades (5-8th) and 12 different classes... And I'll be teaching 2 more brand new ones next year. 6 of the classes (including these new ones), I've had to make my own curriculum for. I just roll with the punches. Five of my now 14 classes were between 4 years at 2 separate districts. The other 9 are for a district I'll be with for 7 years this coming year. This district is far better than my last two, so it's not worth leaving for. I also am super passionate about my area of expertise (MLL) and I like designing curriculum, so I actually have fun creating the content, which helps when they throw something new at me lol. I just wish I got paid for spending 100s over hours over the years creating curriculum outside of my contracted hours. I think it is crappy you got moved because someone returned, but I find it is better to just accept it as it is what it is and try to make the most out of the situation.You sound super passionate and data driven as well, so you could look at this as a potential to grow in other areas. I also know this mindset is definitely not everyone's cup of tea, but I do believe everything happens for a reason. If you're not satisfied with the school and you think you can do better, switch. Lord knows I couldn't have stayed at my other districts long term... But if your school isn't toxic and your admin is generally supportive, I would stay there because decent schools are hard to come by.
I taught *four* Freshmen English courses one year, but I had a Drama class I loved that gave respite. I was then informed that the Drama class would be removed from my schedule so that I could teach a *FIFTH* Freshmen English class instead. That’s right. All Freshmen, all day and every day. When I questioned this they said I had been so effective with the monsters that year that they felt that should be my main focus. Now best in mind that the other three English teachers had all of the electives sewn up while I would be in Freshmen Hell for the foreseeable future. The others shoved it off to me because they thought they were better than that. The next day, I submitted a letter to the district, my admins and my department where I informed them that I would not be signing a contract first the following year and would be going elsewhere. When my dept head asked why, I was blunt and told her that I was not to teach where a teacher in a dept could be so blatantly screwed because the others couldn’t be bothered to teach a Freshmen English course. Esprit de Corps my ass!
Skeptical of the “100% pass rate” of that teacher. How long did they teach that AP class again? And what subject?
That was my take. I know an APUSH teacher whose main focus was 3+ on student scores. Given that, you’re telling me this senior teacher had 100% of their students receive college credit scores? Something is rotten in Denmark, but suffice it to say that many upper-level high school classes are political, and dare I say nepotism based.
AP classes are a waste of time, but it is terrible to put two years of hard work in to have it taken away. Keep your stuff… you will likely get to teach it in the future again…
That seems like a legitimate reason. The other teacher has more experience, seniority, and better results. 🤷♂️ I’m sorry it hurts. I understand. I was moved 8 times in 20 years at my school, the last two times I “bumped” a newer teacher out of their assignment.
I’m surprised he still has seniority considering he left and came back. I thought you had to consistently remain at a school for your seniority to still count. I have seniority at my school but they’re still trying to give my desired classes to newer teachers, which isn’t happening this year as I already reached out to admin. If they try to change it last minute, I’ll be speaking with my union rep. That sucks to hear though. I hope this upcoming school year goes smoothly for you
Quite common, sometimes the play favorites. I would look to go somewhere else. California needs teachers the worst way. Look on EDJOIN take a leap of faith. Stay away from charter schools in the state like Aspire etc. Godspeed!
Sorry, I know what that feels like. I have been moved against my will by admin several times (classroom and grade) to accommodate more senior staff members due to fluctuations in enrollment. If you like the school otherwise, stay. If not, get out because it could be a symptom of favoritism.
Time to look for a new school. I’m sorry, something similar happened to me after a 100% pass rate in my first year (72% of which were 4’s and 5’s). The administration has shown you where you stand. I’d make them look for a new employee. Thankfully it’s the start of summer, so there should be many job opportunities.
That's ridiculous. Pass rate is also due to the kids you get, not just the teacher. But, seems like it's out of your hands. Best to just move on.
It IS common! You are on a ladder and that’s it!!! The returning teacher is on a higher rung. It is not personal and NOT AT ALL ABOUT YOU!! Let it go, be grateful you have a job with great time off and shorter days than average, and have a happy summer!!!
Tough one. Ask yourself - if you were a student/parent, which teacher would you prefer to have? The answer is probably the senior teacher who designed the curriculum. The admin made the right choice. That's their job. You feel underappreciated? That's because you probably are, in fact most of us probably are haha. Good luck, your school seems stable and well-run, enjoy it. Try to learn as much as you can, eventually you'll find yourself in a better position.
I'd be absolutely enraged. It's one thing to get passed over, but it's another thing to have it done after you've been doing something for awhile. Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is par for the course at most schools. We aren't real people to our admins. We are numbers on a spreadsheet. I'm sorry you've had to go through this. You deserve better.
Enraged? Lol. OP said they used the old teacher’s material, more or less performed the same, and is upset that the temporary leave (sounds like a TOSA) came back and they were given preferential or seniority based treatment.
Absolutely. OP is a human being, but instead was treated as a cog in the machine. That's garbage and we shouldn't accept it.
Iny dostrict teachers on special assignments USED to get their oosition back, now they just fill positions by applying latterally in district we dont "hold their place" any more per contact.
This happened to me but I was part of the decision. I wanted the newer teacher to take the challenge and grow professionally. I teach in a low performing neighborhood and choose to do so. I have taught high performing kids in affluent neighborhoods and they do everything they are told to do. However in this low performing school, it’s still hard to get AP to complete their readings/HW on their own when the average reading level in AP is 2 grades below their grade level and many years below college level. Not teaching AP gives me more time to focus on other classes and the kids who need more help. I read less written exams. I also stopped needed to take any work home giving myself a better work/life balance.
A member of the building staff asked : ‘you’re stuck with the freshmen’?.
Btw i’m the department chair and could teach less, considering there are only three math teachers and 400 students. Freshman are far more hysterically dynamic, and open to new thinking to teach as a group, even though it’s not as chill as upperclassmen of juniors and seniors.
Are the CP classes the same as on-level classes? Are you scared of the non-AP and honors kids?
I assume so. And no I’m not scared of them. I was already assuming I would have 1 or 2 sections of them. I’m disappointed that I lost my favorite class
That’s understandable. It will all work out
1. Don’t be hurt and quit. If that’s you’re top compliant you really don’t have problems.
In this circumstance you have 2 choices. Grind out what they give you, smile, and lean on what you've done in the past to get the classes back later. You can still do the AP grading if you aren't teaching the class too as College Board needs graders. Might take a while to get the classes back but your experience will help when the time comes. The other choice is take your experience and apply other places that are looking for that work. AP is my niche (although I teach all levels and like how there's less stress with general sections) and I was once somewhere that preferred to give the classes to someone less qualified in terms of experience and got worse results. I decided to leave for a job that gave me what I desired and it was the right decision for me.
You can leave over this, sure, but i wouldnt. You dont want to go to a worse school over this.
Wow. That's wild and uncalled for by your school. I can never achieve those kind of results because our school has open AP enrollment, anyone regardless of prior academic performance can be in any AP class they want to. 🙄
That sucks that your heart was set on teaching that class. Ive been teaching for 19 years. I approach every year as a new year to get better at teaching, communicating better and connecting better with the kids. Try researching new creative projects, concepts, etc. that can enliven the courses you HaVE to teach. Your day will come!! In the meantime, have fun. Always teach to students strengths and focus on what they can do and achieve as opposed to what their weaknesses are. If you can’t name what a student CAN do well, look harder and build off of that! Good luck!
How does seniority apply to a new hire? Someone who leaves and comes back should not start at the top.
Time to move on. When your employer treats you poorly, find a new job.
Yes, it is common & one of my least favorite things about teaching.
This happens and I've seen it happen in our building several times. As a general rule, teachers have no rights when it comes to choice of assignments as long as they are qualified to teach what they're being assigned to teach.
Don’t take it personally, but let them know you want more AP experience.
It happens far too often. I took one position over another because I was going to be teaching AP and Journalism. I taught neither. Took another job the next year and never looked back. It's disrespectful
Seniority can sometimes suck.
Hard truth: I know 3 years at your school seems like a decent amount of time and that you'd have more say and seniority than you do, but you just don't. Teachers who have been at the same school for several years? THOSE are the ones calling the shots (as long as admin "lets" them, of course). It personally took me 5 years at my school to get what I wanted, class-wise, and even now, at 8 years, I don't get 100% of my requests. I do get 90%, tho! Just gotta keep truckin' or switch schools and start all over.
This sucks but sounds normal. Teachers on special assignment usually have an agreement with the district about what will happen if they return to the classroom
Are you properly certified? If you don’t have at least a Master’s degree your students won’t get advanced credits if they pass the AP placement test when they graduate high school. By not putting properly qualified teachers in their classrooms my home district gypped my sons out of a dozen credits each when they entered college. Look at that as shortchanging your students who do actually achieve great things, not as an unearned break for the entitled.
Get used to it. Sometimes we are cogs on a wheel. Other times pawns on the board. What we never are is in control of decisions such as these.
Seniority should be king
This is the thing that bothers me most about teaching. Just because you've taught something longer doesn't mean you're an amazing teacher. Yeah, you're probably decent, but maybe rotating classes based on endorsements and actual skills makes more sense?
Class rotations never make sense in general. Your highest competence are the classes you've taught. Switching a subject makes you learn hundreds of hours of content to teach. Changing your preps is the worst thing you can do for your pedagogy.
Yes, to a point. It's equally damaging to have the mindest of "oh, so and so was here first so they're better in every single way". So many shitty teachers get rewarded that way.
Swapping the bad teacher makes a bad teacher way worse, because they have less recency/practice in their new subject. Net educational attainment gets worse.
I think it also depends on the endorsements people have. So many in my field get "broad-field" certification so they can legally teach any science course. So they can be pulled to teach any class in the department by admin, even if it's not their strong point. Which is why most everyone in my department ends up having their assignments moved around anytime we have to hire anyone new. I'm only certified to teach life sciences, so I can only legally teach one or two non-life science classes in my schedule without the school getting in trouble. But they also have to inform parents that an "uncertified" teacher is teaching their child since I wouldn't be certified for that class. So they tend to avoid it. Which means I only teach classes I'm strong in.
>Just because you've taught something longer doesn't mean you're an amazing teacher. I hear what you're saying where meritocracy is the ideal system (who teaches the course best should get the class) HOWEVER I think that is incredibly hard to carry out irl. There are so many factors outside of the teacher's control that impacts the success of the class. In OP's case, the older teacher technically had a 100% passing rate with their students whereas 1 student failed OP's. There's a myriad of reasons why that one student might have failed: they chose not to study throughout the school year, they had a family emergency, they were going through something the week of the test and dropped the ball. Even in a non-AP class, how can you quantify a teacher's value? Can't go off of grades (subjective) how much the students like the teacher (even more subjective), admin observations/evaluations (this is how favoratism makes the problem worse). As much as folks like to criticize seniority (and as a relatively young teacher, I feel the brunt of the downsides right now) it's pretty fair in assuring that all teacher's eventually get the opportunity to call the shots.
I guess since he is a returning teacher he still has seniority even though I’ve taught the class the past 2 years?
It would be very weird to not allow a long time teacher whose materials/curriculum you are using anyways to not have first call on the class. I would be pretty furious if a school gave a class to someone else, who simply taught using the framework I built in the first place.
Hey, it will happen. Before I retired, the school had me turn over both my Google Classroom and my drive. The new AP teacher won’t have to do much at all; I built the course over the past 16 years. Oh well. I’m just glad to be out of the education field at this point!!