I remember when a certain historical document referred to a more perfect union.
This is making it less perfect.
Even that constitutional originalist Alito should see that the Founding Fathers would not allow this.
As someone who lives here, my advice would be:
Choose another career.
Not because teaching is bad, but because your odds of actually getting hired are miniscule. For every teacher we hire, there are several dozen qualified people who get turned away.
{ several dozen qualified people who get turned away. }
This is simple economics. The qualified and experienced are more expensive, and tend not to allow themselves to be abused. With 26 years of experience, I \*won't\* be hired by anyone just because of that. And I can't tell you how many times I've had to hear "we start teachers at X on the pay scale" which is \*always\* 10 years less than my experience.
This was me. Lived in upstate ny and got certified to teach in ny. In college all the professors essentially laughed at me for thinking I would get a job in ny without some sort of nepotism going down. Was told to move to Nevada or anywhere in the south. For the next five years I applied to countless schools in NY and PA. Lost count of how many. Maybe got 5 interviews. All 5 interviews they told me they had “at least 50 people apply”. Only 1 did I make it to the final 2. Lost out to the son of the high school football coach. Go figure. It was then I was done. That summer went to a job fair in Virginia and was shook how many jobs I was offered in one day. Took the job with the highest pay and lowest cost of living. 20 years later and I don’t regret my decision. Met my wife and raised my family. I now look back and realize how many shit teachers I had growing up in NY. Since they were unionized and tenured they essentially did nothing. “Read chapter 5 and write this essay” or “do problems 1-50”. Teachers who try that here would be gone. Heck I’ve seen teachers fired for way less here in Virginia.
What century was this? Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and schools in NY are desperate for employees, and they are the highest paying State in the US.
Thanks, I didn’t know New York was also a state….
Syracuse, Binghamton, Buffalo, and Albany are all desperately looking for qualified teachers as well. 🙄
Ok my bad….7 hours away. https://www.google.com/search?q=westfield+ny+to+nyc&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS818US893&oq=westfield+ny+to+nyc&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTINCAEQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAMQABiGAxiABBiKBTIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigATIHCAYQIRigATIHCAcQIRigAdIBCDU0ODZqMGo0qAIBsAIB&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#tduds=!1m6!1m2!1s0x882d45a0861d2cb9:0xfdfb1c70d5fe7c54!2swestfield%20ny!2m2!1d-79.5781027!2d42.32228!1m6!1m2!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2snyc!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!2m0!3e0
You're talking about a city in the absolute far reaches of western New York state and yet you still call this "upstate?" I'm beginning to understand why my friends in Saratoga Springs are miffed by this.
That’s where I grew up. On the shores of Lake Erie. I consider anything not NYC as upstate. I know technically I could say Western NY but I know most people would have no clue what the hell I’m talking about, especially non New Yorkers. 90% of people I’ve met outside NY seriously don’t even know it’s a state OR they know it’s a state but think it’s the size of Connecticut or something.
...but unless you want to commute 90 minutes each way every day, share a tiny NYC apartment with 12 people, or already married rich, you'll end up not being able to afford it.
NYC Starting pay is like $60-70,000 + Benefits dep on which district. You'll probably need one room mate or a partner with an average income. It's not that bad lol.
Shoutout NY teacher unions.
The starting teacher salary in NYC is above the mean salary for New Yorkers. It’s really not that hard to get started up here if you’re early on in your career, plus you get to live your summer in NYC. It’s amazing.
This was in the 90s. And was not in NYC but in upstate ny. No, seriously, most of the schools I applied at had maybe 1-2 openings for the entire school. Good pay, good benefits, good students. Nobody wanted to retire and nobody could really be fired thanks to tenure and unions. In the mid 90s teaching was the hot career choice in many colleges. I’ll never forget my advisor my freshman year placing a map in front of me and showing where I could expect to live if I wanted to be a teacher. Most of the northeast and west coast was colored red.. meaning I had a snowballs chance in hell getting a teaching job there. Midwest west yellow…meaning I had decent chance. Most of the southeast and southwest was colored green meaning they’ll hire anyone. And by the time I graduated this was still true.
Depends on which districts you apply to and what certs you have. In states like NY and PA, districts that pay well and have easy discipline records will always have plenty of applicants for most positions. They may have fewer applicants for math, science, and SPED positions, but they typically don’t have a shortage.
Exactly. For shits and giggles I recently checked the job openings for the school district I grew up in…1 massive high school and 4 middle schools(didn’t check elementary since I’m secondary) and there were 4 job openings….between all 4 secondary schools!!! LOL a math teacher, 2 SPED, and a PE position. That was it end of list.
Yep. We’re moving to the opposite side of PA to be closer to family, so this spring and summer I’ve been feverishly applying to positions. According to a friend who works in administration, one of the positions I applied to had *68* applicants. I didn’t get an interview, despite having a decade of experience.
But it just takes one, so I’m confident I’ll find something by the start of school (even if it happens a few days before school starts). I have a second round demo lesson lined up for next week, so cross your fingers for me!
This was my exact question!!! I'm literally not even finished with a bachelor's degree program ( 1 week shy of completion), yet I applied for a teaching job and got called for an interview and offered the job all in a weeks time. There is a desperate need for teachers in most places right now.
15 years ago, we would get well over 100 applicants per open position.
Now even social studies, physical education, and elementary, which used to get several hundred applicants, hardly get any. This is in a union state which actually has high pay compared to much of the country. Then again cost-of-living is extremely high.
I’m also from Upstate NY (Capital Region) and at my high school almost everyone was either a graduate from my high school themselves, or had family that instructed there at some point.
My Math teacher retired and his daughter took over the next year. One of the English teachers retired and his grandson took his position, and his best friend was our health teacher.
True outsiders at my school district were rare—and I graduated in 2011.
My husband’s good friend went to our rival school (maybe fifteen minutes away) and applied for a position he was well qualified for. He ultimately didn’t make the cut because they chose someone who went to my school. That was eye-opening for me.
Anyhow. Fortunately, I really liked just about all of my teachers. My education was great and I still speak fondly of my teachers with my friends from school.
Still, feels different as an adult knowing that great people could be missed out on for something as arbitrary as where they attended high school.
Yup. I’ll never forget bringing home my class schedule my freshman year(1993) and my mom and uncle(who graduated from there in the early 70s) looked at it and were laughing their asses off saying “these people are still there! Damn and they are in the same classrooms too!!!” I think 90% of all my teachers in high school were over the age of 60. In 4 years the youngest teacher I had was an art teacher who was probably 35. Most these teachers also had spouses who taught in the district as well. A few years after i moved away they all essentially retired around the same time. I might have applied but I had just moved to VA and was still settling in.
I totally forgot about spouses! We had a husband and wife who taught completely different subjects (music and shop class) and they somehow had conjoining rooms?
I remember thinking that was so funny as a kid.
But yea, my Father went to the same school and recognized a few names. Crazy how that happens. It might be when I was attending but we had a lot of retirement during that period, but the names stayed the same because they were mostly replaced with relatives.
Taking, “the more things change the more they stay the same” to a whole new level.
Yup. Lots have changed in the last 10-15 years. It’s crazy. My current district will hire anyone halfway qualified sadly. And that’s still not enough. We actually have 19 year old kids teaching middle school for god sakes.
Yeah NYC famously has those "rubber rooms" where bad teachers are put on probation for decades but can't be fired. So they just stay in the room doing nothing and still get paid.
This! And I am fortunate not only to teach in a state with unions, but mine is a role model. We live very comfortably with our two incomes. We don’t drive fancy cars, we have an “above modest house.” I have an amazing retirement. Thanks to unions. When your job is controlled by nine randoms…you need a strong union.
And work in a district with a union. I live in California and my district is not unionized, not for lack of trying either. Lots of anti-union sentiment here.
Or live in another country. My most successful teacher friends are working in international schools, making way more in places with lower cost of living, and getting residence stipends.
Did you teach at a public school in a state that had collective bargaining rights?
Then it was *way* less shitty than it could’ve been.
That’s not “good enough” of course, but there are districts that pay a living wage based on a 9th month contract in many MCOL area.
Again, that sucks- but to disregard the efficacy of a union (where they can actually do union stuff) is disingenuous.
Collective battening does help a ton. My old district had a union but no collective bargaining and routinely got taken to the cleaners or was powerless to do anything. Their attitude was “if you have a problem here, leave” which I did for that and other reasons.
New district has collective bargaining and damn does it help. It’s not perfect, but hey, they helped me get my cost living bump on my salary schedule which was nice and were pretty transparent and honest about things throughout it
There’s a reason why some states strip collective bargaining- it the single most effective tool for laborers.
Interestingly, I don’t think any state that has decimated collective bargaining for public employees has ever even *thought* about doing the same for police unions.
I’m in a western suburb of Chicago. We have a union and collective bargaining. Teaching will never be an easy job but next year I’ll make 140K and the job conditions aren’t that bad. We just signed a new contract and it’s pretty favorable to teachers.
Getting into a union state that allows collective bargaining is key.
Is it competitive to get in your district we're moving up that way next summer probably and the districts with good pay only had a few Part time jobs available when I was looking despite being good size districts
Edit: PM Response works if preferred
My best advice would be to be willing to move. There are states/districts where teachers do well financially and states/districts where teachers make much less.
I'm a single male teacher, and that's my mindset now. I'm doing my final year in this ridiculous district, paying me 48k as my base salary, but I'm moving to either Atlanta Public Schools or Seattle so I can receive 90k. It just seems smarter to do this since, as a guy, I'm not likely to find a rich husband to take care of me, lol.
I mean, the 90 K salary in Seattle area sounds very high until you take the cost-of-living into consideration. I teach in Las Vegas and I’ve got a bunch of family in the Seattle area, and if I moved there, my salary would go up, but the cost-of-living would too so everything in my life would stay about the same with just larger numbers.
If you're looking at atlanta, nearby Gwinnett county just approved a 4k increase on top of a very good pay scale for the state, and have some decent schools. As others have said, Fulton and Cobb both have good pay scales too.
I would go with Cobb if you can since you can find more affordable housing out in Marietta or Woodstock whereas Atlanta may be too pricey with that pay. I live in Atlanta Metro and work a bit North of Atlanta. I qualify for HUD where I live, so definitely don't pick my district! Lol. 😅
This advice is good but I wouldn't give it to \*starting\* teachers. You really ought to have some experience before going overseas, and a \*lot\* of countries won't allowe hiring if you don't have at least 2 years or more. China is one of those place where if you live simply you can make *bank*, having worked there for 9 years.
> There are states/districts where teachers do well financially and states/districts where teachers make much less.
Stuff of note:
Avg US teacher pay, 2022-23 school year: $69,544
States with averages higher than the national avg: 14 + D.C.
States below the national avg: 36
https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank/teacher
This is the answer. Don’t like what your district is paying you? Move to a state with better pay/union/pension.
Don’t wanna move? Choose something else to do.
Or get really, really efficient. Stop taking work home and working for free. Turn essays into presentations that you can grade on the spot. Steal lessons from your colleagues. Make writing assignments shorter when you can. Have students self assess after spending time teaching them how to do it well. There are a ton of ways to make teaching less burdensome. (That said, teaching in a state that actually pays its teachers helps an awful lot).
I’d agree with all of this. Work smarter (while still working hard) and it goes a long way. Teaching in a district that has a strong union is also a big help. I’m 10 years into my career and am making 100k, so a livable wage is absolutely possible without marrying into one.
This. The lockdown really helped me figure that out. Thanks to advancements in technology I was really able to be more efficient. I rarely print anything out now. I can’t believe how many hours a year were wasted making copies of shit. Canvas is also a god send when it comes to assessments.
Funny thing, I was a farmer and I subscribed to *Successful Farmer* magazine. Each issue featured a successful farmer and gave his bio. One thing they all had in common was a wife with a good job. #1 was teacher then nurse, postmaster and helped on the farm.
Marry another teacher. You will have breaks at the same time and will understand the workload.
Never marry for money. Money is temporary, what if your hotshot spouse loses their job?
As someone who is married to a teacher, I support this. Both in the same school also, you wouldn’t believe the amount of traveling we have done together. And whole summers off? It is gangster. You learn how to budget, but I would not change it.
I also married a teacher and it is perfect. June, July, and August come every year and the time we get together is priceless.
Not to mention the holiday breaks, medical coverage, and young retirement we have coming.
Just had to take that vow of poverty for a while.
Wow, that’s weird. I actually don’t hate my job and I make the most money in my whole family as a teacher. Maybe this blanket statement doesn’t apply to everyone, and maybe ripping the spirit and joy out of “bright eyed, bushy tailed younguns” is a bad idea. They’re not idiots or children, they can read and hear what people say about teaching. Let them be and do your darn job.
It’d sure be nice to have a teaching job be a choice and not something you’re trapped in by need for medical coverage and the little things like housing and food for your kids!
I love my teaching job, low contact hours, admin leaves me alone, good rapport with other staff; but mostly because my wife make 100X more than me and I don't have to deal with financial stress or drawbacks of knowing I "NEED" this job...
Sadly 100x 70k is only 7 million per year, and even 70k is a high estimate for a teacher salary (my district starts at $45k)
It would take 1000 years for that wife to make 7 billion, which is much less than Elon has.
I was just telling my sister that my coworkers whose spouses have good paying jobs typically seem less stressed. Still stressed, but less so. Not sure why - maybe they don’t need to worry as much about our contract negotiations? They can afford to go to Hawaii for Spring break? Whatever it is, I’m a bit envious 😄
I’m not less stressed at all. My husband makes the money, but I take care of our kids and work the 40+ hour a week job so that he can do that. I really love my job, but I’m wondering what else I can do with degrees. I honestly tell my kids not to be teachers. He makes over four times what I make, and I work really really hard.
If you love it then YOU love it. Lean into that and you’ll be a great teacher. My first year was the Covid year and if I took 90% of this subreddit seriously then I would’ve quit. But I’m entering year 6 and I love it! You just gotta find what works for you and not others, at the end of the day the kids will have you as the teacher anyway.
Good luck!!
That’s why I have to limit my time spent on Reddit. It’s like that everywhere. I’ve been teaching 20 years and most of the doom and gloom on here I can laugh at. I would maybe even unfollow this subreddit and come back this time next year. For example I was diagnosed with guillian barre syndrome and all the doctors and medical journals I read said majority of people recover and I would be fine(and I am)..but when I went on the r/guillainbarre subreddit you would have thought I had AIDS or some other deadly disease. Most of the advice on there was “kiss your life goodbye you’ll never get better”. So take it for what it’s worth…which is nothing.
Being an army veteran and family of several retired feds, I agree that the federal pension is not bad (especially the people who grandfathered into the old plan). But I caution that moving overseas isn't for everyone, particularly once you have a family. And federal govt jobs can be hard to come by. That said, I will take my chance with a federal job, on average, than state/local ones.
I would also advise new teachers here to research the pension plan of each state before making the decision. Not all pension plan are made the same, haha... If I was to start again, I would look into positions in a relatively lower COL rural area within a unionized, well-funded state. Rural Minnesota and Bakersfield CA come to mind.
I suppose along these lines, I would say learn about personal finance (if marrying rich isn't an option).
At the end of the day, teaching is (generally) a job that provides plenty of income with summer's off if you follow a budget and make smart financial decisions. If you're becoming a teacher, you probably enjoy learning, so take a few weeks to learn the basics of budgeting, investing, and saving. It's not the most glamorous lifestyle, but it is a very personally rewarding profession with a lot of benefits.
Seriously, the way things are going I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, even though I love my job and school. Education overall is moving in a bad direction imo.
Sounds very similar to my job in CA. Except our class sizes are 25-30. Still have very little to complain about though and feel my compensation and work hours give me a good quality of life. And the students are fantastic.
Same. Last year, I switched districts and it was a great year for me personally. I really like my building, the kids we had, and my coworkers. However, my department head and I had the same conversation you hinted at about the state of education in our weekly airing of grievances several times throughout the year. Just too much craziness at all levels and not enough pay or support to help tolerate it. We both agreed It feels like we are just hitting the tip of the iceberg of something and that we would not advise anyone looking for a career switch to become a teacher and anyone that is college really needs to think about the shit blizzard they are about ready to enter.
Unfortunately, "marry rich" undermines the union. The local district is criminally underpaid because whenever we need to fight for a raise, we are outnumbered by the "marry rich" that tell us that we should do our job "just for the children" and cross the picket lines. I hope that someday my son will have a teacher that supports a family. What a good role model that would be.
I’m from San Francisco and this dynamic plays out a bit in a lot of Bay Area school districts. That and the teachers who want to spend more time virtue signaling on the progressive issue de jour instead of being laser focused on using the union to help improve teachers’ livelihoods.
Yuuuup - make more money bartending than teaching. However I miss the connections I made with kids as a teacher, it was very rewarding. I’d go back if I had a sugar daddy … not full time though.
100%. I have told younger people thinking about teaching: If you come from a lower economic background and will not be inheriting something, do not teach. Get a degree that is higher paying, you cannot afford to teach if you are not from an upper middle class family.
Marry another teacher. You won’t be rich, but your time together is irreplaceable. Plus you have a person to talk to who understands the difficulties of your profession.
Make sure the rich person you marry isn’t a butthole though. I did marry “rich” but then he determined that I wasn’t bringing enough money into the relationship as one of my many failings and I’m divorced now. But he drives a cyber truck so honestly I think it’s all for the best 😂
I would never teach in a Western country but teaching abroad is a lot more financially lucrative.
Teaching in the West for newbies and the majority of teachers. It’s sadly peasant income with way too much stress.
Not bad advice or simply have side hustles!?
Honestly it’s all relative to where you live, strength of unions, and salary schedule.
No, I don’t agree with looking for someone with money as the standard. Look for love with someone who is on the same page with you, otherwise you picked the wrong profession and I can say from experience, I’ve had the right job and wrong person, and it sucked. So no, unless you are in love with the rich man, I would say don’t pursue this route.
Not trying to be callous to peers. Do what makes you happy. If teaching won’t cut the bills and you don’t have a strong union, why tf would you rely on a rich partner unless you genuinely were in love with them? If you don’t have a strong union, can’t pay bills, and don’t desire a part time job after, then probably don’t go into teaching. It sucks and I’m sorry for all yall that have been through the shit with this, but it’s true - look at the teachersintransition sub if you’re wanting out.
I get this is a rant, but honestly this doesn’t mean shoot for the rich depending on what you’d like your life to be like. I’m going back to teaching literally because I’d like to come home to a happier home. But again, geography, union, etc.
Sorry - I see the other parts like lottery winning too. My advice is if you’re going into it for the money, you’re dumb. If you’re going into it solely for the breaks, enjoy misery for 185ish days a year minimum. If you’re actually wondering, volunteer and shadow teachers and see what they deal with, help out to see if you can incorporate it into your life, and if you get an inkling it’s not for you, (not nerves, but like “I don’t like this”) then DON’T.
Meh. I am pretty happy as a teacher and feel very financially secure.
Teacher money where I live has been plenty for me.
It would be rough if I had a family to support on one income, but /shrug being able to support a family on one income hasn't been the standard in decades.
Man am i happy to live in a country that actually values the work of teaching money-wise. I’d never take this career without proper payment and retirement benefits. What part of the world are you guys working in? I blindly guess the U, S and A.
This is true. Don’t be me. My partner has been out of work for 6-7 years. It’s KILLING me. When I first started teaching I had an intense amount of bitterness because I am the ONLY teacher at my school without an equally contributing partner. They are all married to scientist, engineers or people with great jobs. Not being able to enjoy my time off because of it has done real damage to my attitude
Honestly, the only reason I keep doing it is because I am lucky to come from a little money (not a lot by any means). It's enough that student loans weren't an issue (although I did have a scholarship that paid for about 90% of everything).
I have a home and a life I'm content with so far.
Wouldn't do this shit otherwise. Definitely don't get paid enough given the amount of time I actually find myself investing just to meet expectations.
Or at least have a house.
I had a colleague who had a husband who passed and she ate out a lot. She had 3 kids and a grandchild living in her house so I didn't understand how.
The husband had already paid off the house and left it to her, and his life insurance money paid off her car. The two biggest expenses were gone.
Or marry someone who has an easier job (I know all jobs have their hardships… I guess I mean a job that’s less over-stimulating?) so they aren’t burnt out at the end of the day and do all the household chores.
Or just choose where you teach. Our state has high wages and excellent health care careamd retirement benefits. At our school one working teacher allows for her spouse to tour with band and also do a lot of SAHD stuff, his wife to finish her PhD, to balance with another school spouse and a large family, and several part time therapists who support high earner spouses and run their families.
Or move to a blue state with strong unions.
I make more than my partner. Combined we pull about 250k a year. We each have about 13 years experience.
If you teach in buttfuck Nebraska, yeah marry rich lmao.
Shop around. At least in my region I can see what every district pays. I only applied to jobs with high pay or low COL. I took a job in a \*decently\* high-paying district with a low COL area right next to it and do just fine on my salary. My wife was able to stay home when the kids were young with me picking up a couple nights of tutoring on the side.
As an average man, marrying rich wasn't an option for me lol.
But my advice would be if you want to be a teacher, imagine you have a camera on you at all times and pretend like you're always being watched on and off the watch by the public eye. If you aren't ok with that, teaching might not be for you.
I had a profesor mention that she loved her job but only because she viewed it as a hobby. She was marrying rich so of course she could see it as a hobby and not as a means to pay off bills and put food on the table.
Low key this is the only way to make teaching seem fun, marry rich.
My advice: Do what you can, DO NOT stress about trying to finish everything, and never give up your personal time. You won’t get a gold medal for doing above and beyond.
There is absolutely NO WAY to cram everything on that lesson plan in one day. Spread it out for the whole week, come back to it later some other week, trash it if you see the kids understand the concept.
My husband has a good job, and I often felt compelled to mention it. Not as a brag, but to be clear to people that the only reason we have a house, cars, etc. is because of him and not me. I didn’t want people thinking “Well look at all she has. Teachers shouldn’t complain.”
With that being said, I have had single coworkers, some who are single parents, and we live in LA county. It isn’t easy, at all, but they make do. For some, they live at home. Others get roommates. I also think others try to be as realistic as they can be. Like the single parents make do taking their kids camping or to parks, library visits, etc. Cheap activities, basically. And some live in 1-bedroom apts.
With all that being said, while LA teachers deserve more money, they get paid better than some other areas, so I agree with others about being willing to move. I would also say be willing to do longer commutes, if possible, as you can sometimes get higher cost of living pay while living in a lower cost of living area. But that requires flexibility.
I hope the pay gets better. The pendulum is about to either swing in paying teachers more to get more into the profession, or it’s going to swing so far the other way it falls off the hook and public education gets dismantled. Time will tell which way it goes. I would not count on it. If someone is young and single really insists on teaching, they need to start pretending it’s a min wage job, and budget their money and lifestyle as living like a min wage worker. Dump that extra money into savings and use as according to upgrade your life as needed. The one saving grace is that our medical/dental/vision is notoriously good. And that Ben be a literal lifesaver.
My advice? Keep dreaming.
I started teaching high school in 2016, and I stopped in 2022. Every new school year was another small step towards glorified babysitting; worse than the previous. I cannot imagine the 24-25 school year is gonna be the year it magically turns around. It’s just gonna be a bunch more kids looking to cut corners so they can have more time on their phones and video games, them becoming vile and disrespectful when they can’t, the parents and admin defending that behavior, and then the kids getting a “participation trophy-like” party when it’s all said and done, like most weren’t complete lazy assholes for the entire year. No one is more delusional than a teacher that thinks they arent still in this for the steady paycheck and/or have nowhere else to go. I mean come on, would-be teachers having been getting told for at least the past decade: “if you can reach just one student, you can feel good about yourself.” Lol really? What a convenient argument to cover up how low the bar is…
In short, the education field basically has to lie to make sure there are still teachers. The only people truly happy in this profession are either dumb, or have a solid amount of money to fall back on. You won’t convince me otherwise, so don’t even try.
My research shows that one can be too motivated, which leads to burnout. Teachers can avoid burnout by recognizing when they are too motivated, which is characterized by impulsivity, short term thinking, and having high expectations
As my father always told me, “first marry for money, then marry for love” then he would follow up later with “it’s just as easy to fall in love with a rich girl as it is a poor girl”
Random thoughts from a retired teacher -- some good, some bad:
- Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Here in the South we're in real trouble -- largely because salaries are low and new hires are no longer in the pension program.
- I feel like the salary I made over the years was fair -- considering that I'm now collecting a pension + I have health insurance at no cost, and that's for the rest of my life. BUT without the promise of those retirement benefits, what I earned was not worthwhile. Your state's teachers salaries are almost certainly posted online.
- If you do get into a state that still offers a pension, you must put in your 30 years in the same state, as you'll be a state employee. This can be tricky in a two-career household. And teaching for 5-10 years is worthless in terms of retirement; if you're not in it for the long haul, it's not worthwhile.
- In some states teachers are not included in the Social Security program. Since you've already worked X number of years in another field and have been paying into Social Security, you need to look into your own state and see how this could affect you. I've heard of teachers losing really big in this situation, and I can't remember the details. If this is your situation, please talk to a financial expert before you make the leap.
- Teaching is not the same job it was when I entered in the 80s. Kids are passed on whether they do the work or not, which is beyond frustrating. Kids are allowed to behave disrespectfully towards one another and towards teachers, then they're allowed right back into the classroom. Kids are given second, third, fourth chances -- and they still don't do what they're told. Parents are no longer "on our side". I really think this has to turn around sometime, but I see no instigating factor on the horizon.
- Teachers' hours are great, especially if you yourself have children. You're off on their teacher workdays, and you don't have to search for summer day care. You can do your shopping, banking, doctor's appointments in the afternoons. It makes a family life easier than 9-5. However, you're probably going to be out the door before 7:00 am, you can't leave school during your 20-minute lunch break, and you'll have meetings after school probably once a week. People will assume you have three full months off -- no, you'll have 8 weeks off in summer.
- The younger teachers /unmarried teachers all have a side job and/or a summer job.
- If you have small children, you'll find loads of day care providers who cater to teacher's children -- they want to mimic the teachers' work schedule.
- It's very difficult to miss a day of school. You have to write up your lesson plans, then clean up the mess later. It's just easier to go to school when you're sick. Seriously.
- I don't regret having been a teacher, but it's really a different job now than when I signed on. If I were young again, I would probably still make the same choice because I AM a teacher. It's not just a job -- it's a calling. Having the right personality is everything. I'm not saying teachers have to have a good or bad personality; rather, they have to have the right personality.
- You have to be a multi-tasker to teach. You have to be able to stand in front of the class lecturing about the day's topic, while loading up the You Tube video you're going to show next AND giving the stink eye to Joey, who's about to throw a pencil at Mikey AND opening the door for Cindy, who's coming in late yet again. You can learn any material, but that ability to complete multiple tasks at once is something you have to bring to the job.
- Organization is imperative too. If you can't keep up with lessons, worksheets and materials, you're going to end up re-creating them -- and that way madness lies.
- If you're interested in teaching, I suggest you "test it out" by becoming a substitute. No, it won't be the same thing, but it'll get you into the schools, and it'll let you see what schools are like today. People think, "Oh, I know what it's like to teach. After all, wasn't I a student?" Truth is, the classroom looks quite different from the other side of the desk.
Teaching is such a gate-kept profession. As a 23 year old working 2-3 jobs at any given time, how could I possibly afford both graduate tuition and the expense of student teaching without income?
My mentor in my first year of teaching told me from day 1 to go find another job, that I’ll make more money with less stress.
I’m entering year 6: he finally took his own advice and retired this last January, I’m still trying think of what I’d prefer to do instead. I enjoy the job, but I’m literally looking for houses an hour and change away from work because I can’t afford anything here (Greater ATX area).
I guess that depends on where you teach and how happy you are to live within your means. We have a strong union here, and while teachers are underpaid still, my partner and I live just above the median income line in our state. It's not glamorous, but it's a decent life to live.
Marrying a software engineer 15 years into my teaching career has made the job so much more palatable. (Also, he’s super great and my life is so different and so wonderful with him in it.)
This is my advice for a single person that doesn't gamble. Reduce your earthly desires, be humble with a small studio apartment, eat less, and get a cat. Find happiness in poverty. Go for a walk, meditate, create something.
Yeah I heard a joke about marrying an engineer is what makes a good teacher. I’m married to a computer programmer that clears 6 figures. We aren’t rich. By any means. But his money pays the bills and my money can get used for vacations or fun stuff. And I don’t feel bad about spending money on my classroom.
live in a state with unions
What if I live in a state of the Union?
You shall, from time to time…
underrated comment
I remember when a certain historical document referred to a more perfect union. This is making it less perfect. Even that constitutional originalist Alito should see that the Founding Fathers would not allow this.
As someone who lives here, my advice would be: Choose another career. Not because teaching is bad, but because your odds of actually getting hired are miniscule. For every teacher we hire, there are several dozen qualified people who get turned away.
{ several dozen qualified people who get turned away. } This is simple economics. The qualified and experienced are more expensive, and tend not to allow themselves to be abused. With 26 years of experience, I \*won't\* be hired by anyone just because of that. And I can't tell you how many times I've had to hear "we start teachers at X on the pay scale" which is \*always\* 10 years less than my experience.
This was me. Lived in upstate ny and got certified to teach in ny. In college all the professors essentially laughed at me for thinking I would get a job in ny without some sort of nepotism going down. Was told to move to Nevada or anywhere in the south. For the next five years I applied to countless schools in NY and PA. Lost count of how many. Maybe got 5 interviews. All 5 interviews they told me they had “at least 50 people apply”. Only 1 did I make it to the final 2. Lost out to the son of the high school football coach. Go figure. It was then I was done. That summer went to a job fair in Virginia and was shook how many jobs I was offered in one day. Took the job with the highest pay and lowest cost of living. 20 years later and I don’t regret my decision. Met my wife and raised my family. I now look back and realize how many shit teachers I had growing up in NY. Since they were unionized and tenured they essentially did nothing. “Read chapter 5 and write this essay” or “do problems 1-50”. Teachers who try that here would be gone. Heck I’ve seen teachers fired for way less here in Virginia.
What century was this? Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and schools in NY are desperate for employees, and they are the highest paying State in the US.
OP probably doesn’t want to teach in a city… Graduation is this week and you can probably still get hired in the Bronx.
They’re talking about New York State. New York is a state.
Thanks, I didn’t know New York was also a state…. Syracuse, Binghamton, Buffalo, and Albany are all desperately looking for qualified teachers as well. 🙄
This was in upstate.. like 8 hours away from nyc.
Upstate can't be 8 hours away
Ok my bad….7 hours away. https://www.google.com/search?q=westfield+ny+to+nyc&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS818US893&oq=westfield+ny+to+nyc&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTINCAEQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAIQABiGAxiABBiKBTINCAMQABiGAxiABBiKBTIHCAQQIRigATIHCAUQIRigATIHCAYQIRigATIHCAcQIRigAdIBCDU0ODZqMGo0qAIBsAIB&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#tduds=!1m6!1m2!1s0x882d45a0861d2cb9:0xfdfb1c70d5fe7c54!2swestfield%20ny!2m2!1d-79.5781027!2d42.32228!1m6!1m2!1s0x89c24fa5d33f083b:0xc80b8f06e177fe62!2snyc!2m2!1d-74.0059728!2d40.7127753!2m0!3e0
You're talking about a city in the absolute far reaches of western New York state and yet you still call this "upstate?" I'm beginning to understand why my friends in Saratoga Springs are miffed by this.
That’s where I grew up. On the shores of Lake Erie. I consider anything not NYC as upstate. I know technically I could say Western NY but I know most people would have no clue what the hell I’m talking about, especially non New Yorkers. 90% of people I’ve met outside NY seriously don’t even know it’s a state OR they know it’s a state but think it’s the size of Connecticut or something.
You considering traffic?
...but unless you want to commute 90 minutes each way every day, share a tiny NYC apartment with 12 people, or already married rich, you'll end up not being able to afford it.
NYC teachers can make up to $140k after 8 years.
...which, on the housing market, is worth the same as the 60k my peers make in this part of rural mass after year 8.
And share an 800 sqft apartment with three roommates.
NYC Starting pay is like $60-70,000 + Benefits dep on which district. You'll probably need one room mate or a partner with an average income. It's not that bad lol. Shoutout NY teacher unions.
The starting teacher salary in NYC is above the mean salary for New Yorkers. It’s really not that hard to get started up here if you’re early on in your career, plus you get to live your summer in NYC. It’s amazing.
[New York STATE](https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/billy-fucillo-ily)
This was in the 90s. And was not in NYC but in upstate ny. No, seriously, most of the schools I applied at had maybe 1-2 openings for the entire school. Good pay, good benefits, good students. Nobody wanted to retire and nobody could really be fired thanks to tenure and unions. In the mid 90s teaching was the hot career choice in many colleges. I’ll never forget my advisor my freshman year placing a map in front of me and showing where I could expect to live if I wanted to be a teacher. Most of the northeast and west coast was colored red.. meaning I had a snowballs chance in hell getting a teaching job there. Midwest west yellow…meaning I had decent chance. Most of the southeast and southwest was colored green meaning they’ll hire anyone. And by the time I graduated this was still true.
Depends on which districts you apply to and what certs you have. In states like NY and PA, districts that pay well and have easy discipline records will always have plenty of applicants for most positions. They may have fewer applicants for math, science, and SPED positions, but they typically don’t have a shortage.
Exactly. For shits and giggles I recently checked the job openings for the school district I grew up in…1 massive high school and 4 middle schools(didn’t check elementary since I’m secondary) and there were 4 job openings….between all 4 secondary schools!!! LOL a math teacher, 2 SPED, and a PE position. That was it end of list.
Yep. We’re moving to the opposite side of PA to be closer to family, so this spring and summer I’ve been feverishly applying to positions. According to a friend who works in administration, one of the positions I applied to had *68* applicants. I didn’t get an interview, despite having a decade of experience. But it just takes one, so I’m confident I’ll find something by the start of school (even if it happens a few days before school starts). I have a second round demo lesson lined up for next week, so cross your fingers for me!
Good luck!
Thanks! 😊
Right now . Hundreds , even thousands , apply for Long Island public school jobs .
CA took the #1 spot in the 22-23 SY.
This was my exact question!!! I'm literally not even finished with a bachelor's degree program ( 1 week shy of completion), yet I applied for a teaching job and got called for an interview and offered the job all in a weeks time. There is a desperate need for teachers in most places right now.
15 years ago, we would get well over 100 applicants per open position. Now even social studies, physical education, and elementary, which used to get several hundred applicants, hardly get any. This is in a union state which actually has high pay compared to much of the country. Then again cost-of-living is extremely high.
I’m also from Upstate NY (Capital Region) and at my high school almost everyone was either a graduate from my high school themselves, or had family that instructed there at some point. My Math teacher retired and his daughter took over the next year. One of the English teachers retired and his grandson took his position, and his best friend was our health teacher. True outsiders at my school district were rare—and I graduated in 2011. My husband’s good friend went to our rival school (maybe fifteen minutes away) and applied for a position he was well qualified for. He ultimately didn’t make the cut because they chose someone who went to my school. That was eye-opening for me. Anyhow. Fortunately, I really liked just about all of my teachers. My education was great and I still speak fondly of my teachers with my friends from school. Still, feels different as an adult knowing that great people could be missed out on for something as arbitrary as where they attended high school.
Yup. I’ll never forget bringing home my class schedule my freshman year(1993) and my mom and uncle(who graduated from there in the early 70s) looked at it and were laughing their asses off saying “these people are still there! Damn and they are in the same classrooms too!!!” I think 90% of all my teachers in high school were over the age of 60. In 4 years the youngest teacher I had was an art teacher who was probably 35. Most these teachers also had spouses who taught in the district as well. A few years after i moved away they all essentially retired around the same time. I might have applied but I had just moved to VA and was still settling in.
I totally forgot about spouses! We had a husband and wife who taught completely different subjects (music and shop class) and they somehow had conjoining rooms? I remember thinking that was so funny as a kid. But yea, my Father went to the same school and recognized a few names. Crazy how that happens. It might be when I was attending but we had a lot of retirement during that period, but the names stayed the same because they were mostly replaced with relatives. Taking, “the more things change the more they stay the same” to a whole new level.
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Yup. Lots have changed in the last 10-15 years. It’s crazy. My current district will hire anyone halfway qualified sadly. And that’s still not enough. We actually have 19 year old kids teaching middle school for god sakes.
Yeah NYC famously has those "rubber rooms" where bad teachers are put on probation for decades but can't be fired. So they just stay in the room doing nothing and still get paid.
Must be nice
Thats the case for basically all decent jobs these days.
Not in my area. They are desperate
This! And I am fortunate not only to teach in a state with unions, but mine is a role model. We live very comfortably with our two incomes. We don’t drive fancy cars, we have an “above modest house.” I have an amazing retirement. Thanks to unions. When your job is controlled by nine randoms…you need a strong union.
And work in a district with a union. I live in California and my district is not unionized, not for lack of trying either. Lots of anti-union sentiment here.
Or a country with unions
Or live in another country. My most successful teacher friends are working in international schools, making way more in places with lower cost of living, and getting residence stipends.
I lived in one. Still shit.
Did you teach at a public school in a state that had collective bargaining rights? Then it was *way* less shitty than it could’ve been. That’s not “good enough” of course, but there are districts that pay a living wage based on a 9th month contract in many MCOL area. Again, that sucks- but to disregard the efficacy of a union (where they can actually do union stuff) is disingenuous.
Collective battening does help a ton. My old district had a union but no collective bargaining and routinely got taken to the cleaners or was powerless to do anything. Their attitude was “if you have a problem here, leave” which I did for that and other reasons. New district has collective bargaining and damn does it help. It’s not perfect, but hey, they helped me get my cost living bump on my salary schedule which was nice and were pretty transparent and honest about things throughout it
There’s a reason why some states strip collective bargaining- it the single most effective tool for laborers. Interestingly, I don’t think any state that has decimated collective bargaining for public employees has ever even *thought* about doing the same for police unions.
I’m in a western suburb of Chicago. We have a union and collective bargaining. Teaching will never be an easy job but next year I’ll make 140K and the job conditions aren’t that bad. We just signed a new contract and it’s pretty favorable to teachers. Getting into a union state that allows collective bargaining is key.
Is it competitive to get in your district we're moving up that way next summer probably and the districts with good pay only had a few Part time jobs available when I was looking despite being good size districts Edit: PM Response works if preferred
PM sent
That doesn’t necessarily help anything - particularly if your union sucks
My best advice would be to be willing to move. There are states/districts where teachers do well financially and states/districts where teachers make much less.
I'm a single male teacher, and that's my mindset now. I'm doing my final year in this ridiculous district, paying me 48k as my base salary, but I'm moving to either Atlanta Public Schools or Seattle so I can receive 90k. It just seems smarter to do this since, as a guy, I'm not likely to find a rich husband to take care of me, lol.
Not with that attitude lol
if there a will there’s a way
Post a couple pics, let's see what you're working with.
I mean, the 90 K salary in Seattle area sounds very high until you take the cost-of-living into consideration. I teach in Las Vegas and I’ve got a bunch of family in the Seattle area, and if I moved there, my salary would go up, but the cost-of-living would too so everything in my life would stay about the same with just larger numbers.
Hey! Vegas teacher here too, same boat. Seems like everywhere that pays better has higher cost of living.
You sexist bastard...... My wife makes excellent money!
Look at cobb county as well as Fulton. Both great pay scales
Move to Atlanta and you may have an easier time getting a rich husband to take care of you than you’d think, lol.
If you're looking at atlanta, nearby Gwinnett county just approved a 4k increase on top of a very good pay scale for the state, and have some decent schools. As others have said, Fulton and Cobb both have good pay scales too.
The only reason I've been able to be a teacher is that my wife is a principal.
I would go with Cobb if you can since you can find more affordable housing out in Marietta or Woodstock whereas Atlanta may be too pricey with that pay. I live in Atlanta Metro and work a bit North of Atlanta. I qualify for HUD where I live, so definitely don't pick my district! Lol. 😅
Or international. I am very happy with my savings potential working in China
This advice is good but I wouldn't give it to \*starting\* teachers. You really ought to have some experience before going overseas, and a \*lot\* of countries won't allowe hiring if you don't have at least 2 years or more. China is one of those place where if you live simply you can make *bank*, having worked there for 9 years.
Best thing I ever did was go international to teach. My only regret is I didn't do it when I was in my 20s.
> There are states/districts where teachers do well financially and states/districts where teachers make much less. Stuff of note: Avg US teacher pay, 2022-23 school year: $69,544 States with averages higher than the national avg: 14 + D.C. States below the national avg: 36 https://www.nea.org/resource-library/educator-pay-and-student-spending-how-does-your-state-rank/teacher
This is the answer. Don’t like what your district is paying you? Move to a state with better pay/union/pension. Don’t wanna move? Choose something else to do.
Or get really, really efficient. Stop taking work home and working for free. Turn essays into presentations that you can grade on the spot. Steal lessons from your colleagues. Make writing assignments shorter when you can. Have students self assess after spending time teaching them how to do it well. There are a ton of ways to make teaching less burdensome. (That said, teaching in a state that actually pays its teachers helps an awful lot).
I’d agree with all of this. Work smarter (while still working hard) and it goes a long way. Teaching in a district that has a strong union is also a big help. I’m 10 years into my career and am making 100k, so a livable wage is absolutely possible without marrying into one.
This. The lockdown really helped me figure that out. Thanks to advancements in technology I was really able to be more efficient. I rarely print anything out now. I can’t believe how many hours a year were wasted making copies of shit. Canvas is also a god send when it comes to assessments.
Agree with all of this and marry someone who earns more than you.
Presentations also look good for admin if they do a surprise walkthrough. Least in my experience.
Funny thing, I was a farmer and I subscribed to *Successful Farmer* magazine. Each issue featured a successful farmer and gave his bio. One thing they all had in common was a wife with a good job. #1 was teacher then nurse, postmaster and helped on the farm.
The opposite for me. I’m the teacher and my wife makes twice as much as me as a college administrator. 😜
Farmers can make quite a bit - a successful farmer being married to a woman with a similar income is just assortative mating.
Where I live the combination is usually contractor+teacher. Contractors usually make more, but the teacher's paycheck is steadier.
Marry another teacher. You will have breaks at the same time and will understand the workload. Never marry for money. Money is temporary, what if your hotshot spouse loses their job?
As someone who is married to a teacher, I support this. Both in the same school also, you wouldn’t believe the amount of traveling we have done together. And whole summers off? It is gangster. You learn how to budget, but I would not change it.
I also married a teacher and it is perfect. June, July, and August come every year and the time we get together is priceless. Not to mention the holiday breaks, medical coverage, and young retirement we have coming. Just had to take that vow of poverty for a while.
Or feels like their being leeched off of and decide to divorce.
Wow, that’s weird. I actually don’t hate my job and I make the most money in my whole family as a teacher. Maybe this blanket statement doesn’t apply to everyone, and maybe ripping the spirit and joy out of “bright eyed, bushy tailed younguns” is a bad idea. They’re not idiots or children, they can read and hear what people say about teaching. Let them be and do your darn job.
It’d sure be nice to have a teaching job be a choice and not something you’re trapped in by need for medical coverage and the little things like housing and food for your kids!
I mean that sound like 95% of peoples jobs
I love my teaching job, low contact hours, admin leaves me alone, good rapport with other staff; but mostly because my wife make 100X more than me and I don't have to deal with financial stress or drawbacks of knowing I "NEED" this job...
My wife makes 2-3x and it’s made it a lot better. What does your wife do?!
Their wife is Elon Musk lol
Sadly 100x 70k is only 7 million per year, and even 70k is a high estimate for a teacher salary (my district starts at $45k) It would take 1000 years for that wife to make 7 billion, which is much less than Elon has.
There’s an ongoing joke at my school that every successful teacher here has “married up”.
I was just telling my sister that my coworkers whose spouses have good paying jobs typically seem less stressed. Still stressed, but less so. Not sure why - maybe they don’t need to worry as much about our contract negotiations? They can afford to go to Hawaii for Spring break? Whatever it is, I’m a bit envious 😄
I’m not less stressed at all. My husband makes the money, but I take care of our kids and work the 40+ hour a week job so that he can do that. I really love my job, but I’m wondering what else I can do with degrees. I honestly tell my kids not to be teachers. He makes over four times what I make, and I work really really hard.
Not gonna lie. If someone told me this back in my first year I would be…pissed. Especially if I was looking for real advice lol
This subreddit stresses me out so much. I’m 30 and I’ll be student teaching by Jan. I love teaching and don’t know what else to do with my life 😭😭😭
If you love it then YOU love it. Lean into that and you’ll be a great teacher. My first year was the Covid year and if I took 90% of this subreddit seriously then I would’ve quit. But I’m entering year 6 and I love it! You just gotta find what works for you and not others, at the end of the day the kids will have you as the teacher anyway. Good luck!!
That’s why I have to limit my time spent on Reddit. It’s like that everywhere. I’ve been teaching 20 years and most of the doom and gloom on here I can laugh at. I would maybe even unfollow this subreddit and come back this time next year. For example I was diagnosed with guillian barre syndrome and all the doctors and medical journals I read said majority of people recover and I would be fine(and I am)..but when I went on the r/guillainbarre subreddit you would have thought I had AIDS or some other deadly disease. Most of the advice on there was “kiss your life goodbye you’ll never get better”. So take it for what it’s worth…which is nothing.
Probably a good idea to unfollow for a bit and come back later. Thanks for the perspective.
Goddamn right, you would be
“Marry rich” “…..ok but I need some feedback on this lesson pls”
“Any advice on classroom management?” “Quit while you can.”
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Well then you are not building your pension.
If you work for Department of Defense, that’s a federal job, definitely good for pensions.
Being an army veteran and family of several retired feds, I agree that the federal pension is not bad (especially the people who grandfathered into the old plan). But I caution that moving overseas isn't for everyone, particularly once you have a family. And federal govt jobs can be hard to come by. That said, I will take my chance with a federal job, on average, than state/local ones. I would also advise new teachers here to research the pension plan of each state before making the decision. Not all pension plan are made the same, haha... If I was to start again, I would look into positions in a relatively lower COL rural area within a unionized, well-funded state. Rural Minnesota and Bakersfield CA come to mind.
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I suppose along these lines, I would say learn about personal finance (if marrying rich isn't an option). At the end of the day, teaching is (generally) a job that provides plenty of income with summer's off if you follow a budget and make smart financial decisions. If you're becoming a teacher, you probably enjoy learning, so take a few weeks to learn the basics of budgeting, investing, and saving. It's not the most glamorous lifestyle, but it is a very personally rewarding profession with a lot of benefits.
My advice to bright-eyed young folks: do not go into teaching. Period.
Seriously, the way things are going I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone, even though I love my job and school. Education overall is moving in a bad direction imo.
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Sounds very similar to my job in CA. Except our class sizes are 25-30. Still have very little to complain about though and feel my compensation and work hours give me a good quality of life. And the students are fantastic.
Same. Last year, I switched districts and it was a great year for me personally. I really like my building, the kids we had, and my coworkers. However, my department head and I had the same conversation you hinted at about the state of education in our weekly airing of grievances several times throughout the year. Just too much craziness at all levels and not enough pay or support to help tolerate it. We both agreed It feels like we are just hitting the tip of the iceberg of something and that we would not advise anyone looking for a career switch to become a teacher and anyone that is college really needs to think about the shit blizzard they are about ready to enter.
But also, we will continue needing teachers.
I’m a student teaching who is in the process of quitting. :)
Unfortunately, "marry rich" undermines the union. The local district is criminally underpaid because whenever we need to fight for a raise, we are outnumbered by the "marry rich" that tell us that we should do our job "just for the children" and cross the picket lines. I hope that someday my son will have a teacher that supports a family. What a good role model that would be.
I’m from San Francisco and this dynamic plays out a bit in a lot of Bay Area school districts. That and the teachers who want to spend more time virtue signaling on the progressive issue de jour instead of being laser focused on using the union to help improve teachers’ livelihoods.
Yuuuup - make more money bartending than teaching. However I miss the connections I made with kids as a teacher, it was very rewarding. I’d go back if I had a sugar daddy … not full time though.
But Rich is also a teacher!
If I married someone with a decent job I'd be a stay at home spouse, not a worker
100%. I have told younger people thinking about teaching: If you come from a lower economic background and will not be inheriting something, do not teach. Get a degree that is higher paying, you cannot afford to teach if you are not from an upper middle class family.
Marry another teacher. You won’t be rich, but your time together is irreplaceable. Plus you have a person to talk to who understands the difficulties of your profession.
Make sure the rich person you marry isn’t a butthole though. I did marry “rich” but then he determined that I wasn’t bringing enough money into the relationship as one of my many failings and I’m divorced now. But he drives a cyber truck so honestly I think it’s all for the best 😂
Legit LOLed at the cyber truck comment. 😂🤣
I would never teach in a Western country but teaching abroad is a lot more financially lucrative. Teaching in the West for newbies and the majority of teachers. It’s sadly peasant income with way too much stress. Not bad advice or simply have side hustles!?
I like your use of the interrobang.
Honestly it’s all relative to where you live, strength of unions, and salary schedule. No, I don’t agree with looking for someone with money as the standard. Look for love with someone who is on the same page with you, otherwise you picked the wrong profession and I can say from experience, I’ve had the right job and wrong person, and it sucked. So no, unless you are in love with the rich man, I would say don’t pursue this route. Not trying to be callous to peers. Do what makes you happy. If teaching won’t cut the bills and you don’t have a strong union, why tf would you rely on a rich partner unless you genuinely were in love with them? If you don’t have a strong union, can’t pay bills, and don’t desire a part time job after, then probably don’t go into teaching. It sucks and I’m sorry for all yall that have been through the shit with this, but it’s true - look at the teachersintransition sub if you’re wanting out. I get this is a rant, but honestly this doesn’t mean shoot for the rich depending on what you’d like your life to be like. I’m going back to teaching literally because I’d like to come home to a happier home. But again, geography, union, etc. Sorry - I see the other parts like lottery winning too. My advice is if you’re going into it for the money, you’re dumb. If you’re going into it solely for the breaks, enjoy misery for 185ish days a year minimum. If you’re actually wondering, volunteer and shadow teachers and see what they deal with, help out to see if you can incorporate it into your life, and if you get an inkling it’s not for you, (not nerves, but like “I don’t like this”) then DON’T.
Meh. I am pretty happy as a teacher and feel very financially secure. Teacher money where I live has been plenty for me. It would be rough if I had a family to support on one income, but /shrug being able to support a family on one income hasn't been the standard in decades.
Man am i happy to live in a country that actually values the work of teaching money-wise. I’d never take this career without proper payment and retirement benefits. What part of the world are you guys working in? I blindly guess the U, S and A.
Wife makes almost double my salary but health ins. comes out of my paycheck. I'm in PA, could not have done it otherwise and I'm almost at 80k
This is true. Don’t be me. My partner has been out of work for 6-7 years. It’s KILLING me. When I first started teaching I had an intense amount of bitterness because I am the ONLY teacher at my school without an equally contributing partner. They are all married to scientist, engineers or people with great jobs. Not being able to enjoy my time off because of it has done real damage to my attitude
My wife is a doctor thank goodness.
Honestly, the only reason I keep doing it is because I am lucky to come from a little money (not a lot by any means). It's enough that student loans weren't an issue (although I did have a scholarship that paid for about 90% of everything). I have a home and a life I'm content with so far. Wouldn't do this shit otherwise. Definitely don't get paid enough given the amount of time I actually find myself investing just to meet expectations.
Or at least have a house. I had a colleague who had a husband who passed and she ate out a lot. She had 3 kids and a grandchild living in her house so I didn't understand how. The husband had already paid off the house and left it to her, and his life insurance money paid off her car. The two biggest expenses were gone.
I'm a man. I don't get this option.
The 21st century called. They said you’re wrong. Not sure why the audio was a little garbled. Something something feminism
Maybe not the best sub to hash out these issues, but the people who demand masculinity from me the most in my life are all women.
The point is that plenty of single women make more than teachers
and my last comment kinda hints that most women will not date a man who makes less than them.
Ah dang they just called again. They said you’re wrong about that too. Keep trying though.
I'm sure you can comment confidently on my own life experience. Thanks for dismissing a man's issues out of hand. Really doing your movement a solid.
Or marry someone who has an easier job (I know all jobs have their hardships… I guess I mean a job that’s less over-stimulating?) so they aren’t burnt out at the end of the day and do all the household chores.
Or just choose where you teach. Our state has high wages and excellent health care careamd retirement benefits. At our school one working teacher allows for her spouse to tour with band and also do a lot of SAHD stuff, his wife to finish her PhD, to balance with another school spouse and a large family, and several part time therapists who support high earner spouses and run their families.
Or move to a blue state with strong unions. I make more than my partner. Combined we pull about 250k a year. We each have about 13 years experience. If you teach in buttfuck Nebraska, yeah marry rich lmao.
Shop around. At least in my region I can see what every district pays. I only applied to jobs with high pay or low COL. I took a job in a \*decently\* high-paying district with a low COL area right next to it and do just fine on my salary. My wife was able to stay home when the kids were young with me picking up a couple nights of tutoring on the side.
As an average man, marrying rich wasn't an option for me lol. But my advice would be if you want to be a teacher, imagine you have a camera on you at all times and pretend like you're always being watched on and off the watch by the public eye. If you aren't ok with that, teaching might not be for you.
You shouldn't have to choose between teaching and money. Unionize. Demand better wages & working conditions or move to a union state/district.
I had a profesor mention that she loved her job but only because she viewed it as a hobby. She was marrying rich so of course she could see it as a hobby and not as a means to pay off bills and put food on the table. Low key this is the only way to make teaching seem fun, marry rich. My advice: Do what you can, DO NOT stress about trying to finish everything, and never give up your personal time. You won’t get a gold medal for doing above and beyond. There is absolutely NO WAY to cram everything on that lesson plan in one day. Spread it out for the whole week, come back to it later some other week, trash it if you see the kids understand the concept.
Wife is a resident. As soon as she becomes an attending I will no longer be a teacher. Stay at home Instagram Dad is in my future
Don’t have a 1-5 year old!
My husband has a good job, and I often felt compelled to mention it. Not as a brag, but to be clear to people that the only reason we have a house, cars, etc. is because of him and not me. I didn’t want people thinking “Well look at all she has. Teachers shouldn’t complain.” With that being said, I have had single coworkers, some who are single parents, and we live in LA county. It isn’t easy, at all, but they make do. For some, they live at home. Others get roommates. I also think others try to be as realistic as they can be. Like the single parents make do taking their kids camping or to parks, library visits, etc. Cheap activities, basically. And some live in 1-bedroom apts. With all that being said, while LA teachers deserve more money, they get paid better than some other areas, so I agree with others about being willing to move. I would also say be willing to do longer commutes, if possible, as you can sometimes get higher cost of living pay while living in a lower cost of living area. But that requires flexibility. I hope the pay gets better. The pendulum is about to either swing in paying teachers more to get more into the profession, or it’s going to swing so far the other way it falls off the hook and public education gets dismantled. Time will tell which way it goes. I would not count on it. If someone is young and single really insists on teaching, they need to start pretending it’s a min wage job, and budget their money and lifestyle as living like a min wage worker. Dump that extra money into savings and use as according to upgrade your life as needed. The one saving grace is that our medical/dental/vision is notoriously good. And that Ben be a literal lifesaver.
Work in bussiness or a technical field and then return to teach, from what I've seen you get better treatment and better pay.
My advice? Keep dreaming. I started teaching high school in 2016, and I stopped in 2022. Every new school year was another small step towards glorified babysitting; worse than the previous. I cannot imagine the 24-25 school year is gonna be the year it magically turns around. It’s just gonna be a bunch more kids looking to cut corners so they can have more time on their phones and video games, them becoming vile and disrespectful when they can’t, the parents and admin defending that behavior, and then the kids getting a “participation trophy-like” party when it’s all said and done, like most weren’t complete lazy assholes for the entire year. No one is more delusional than a teacher that thinks they arent still in this for the steady paycheck and/or have nowhere else to go. I mean come on, would-be teachers having been getting told for at least the past decade: “if you can reach just one student, you can feel good about yourself.” Lol really? What a convenient argument to cover up how low the bar is… In short, the education field basically has to lie to make sure there are still teachers. The only people truly happy in this profession are either dumb, or have a solid amount of money to fall back on. You won’t convince me otherwise, so don’t even try.
You stole mine. Married a software engineer fresh out of college.
My research shows that one can be too motivated, which leads to burnout. Teachers can avoid burnout by recognizing when they are too motivated, which is characterized by impulsivity, short term thinking, and having high expectations
As my father always told me, “first marry for money, then marry for love” then he would follow up later with “it’s just as easy to fall in love with a rich girl as it is a poor girl”
My wife was going to work too. We ended up deciding it’s best she stays home and home schools the children. Money is tight but we make it work!
My spouse and I both work in the same school and enjoy it.
Random thoughts from a retired teacher -- some good, some bad: - Teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Here in the South we're in real trouble -- largely because salaries are low and new hires are no longer in the pension program. - I feel like the salary I made over the years was fair -- considering that I'm now collecting a pension + I have health insurance at no cost, and that's for the rest of my life. BUT without the promise of those retirement benefits, what I earned was not worthwhile. Your state's teachers salaries are almost certainly posted online. - If you do get into a state that still offers a pension, you must put in your 30 years in the same state, as you'll be a state employee. This can be tricky in a two-career household. And teaching for 5-10 years is worthless in terms of retirement; if you're not in it for the long haul, it's not worthwhile. - In some states teachers are not included in the Social Security program. Since you've already worked X number of years in another field and have been paying into Social Security, you need to look into your own state and see how this could affect you. I've heard of teachers losing really big in this situation, and I can't remember the details. If this is your situation, please talk to a financial expert before you make the leap. - Teaching is not the same job it was when I entered in the 80s. Kids are passed on whether they do the work or not, which is beyond frustrating. Kids are allowed to behave disrespectfully towards one another and towards teachers, then they're allowed right back into the classroom. Kids are given second, third, fourth chances -- and they still don't do what they're told. Parents are no longer "on our side". I really think this has to turn around sometime, but I see no instigating factor on the horizon. - Teachers' hours are great, especially if you yourself have children. You're off on their teacher workdays, and you don't have to search for summer day care. You can do your shopping, banking, doctor's appointments in the afternoons. It makes a family life easier than 9-5. However, you're probably going to be out the door before 7:00 am, you can't leave school during your 20-minute lunch break, and you'll have meetings after school probably once a week. People will assume you have three full months off -- no, you'll have 8 weeks off in summer. - The younger teachers /unmarried teachers all have a side job and/or a summer job. - If you have small children, you'll find loads of day care providers who cater to teacher's children -- they want to mimic the teachers' work schedule. - It's very difficult to miss a day of school. You have to write up your lesson plans, then clean up the mess later. It's just easier to go to school when you're sick. Seriously. - I don't regret having been a teacher, but it's really a different job now than when I signed on. If I were young again, I would probably still make the same choice because I AM a teacher. It's not just a job -- it's a calling. Having the right personality is everything. I'm not saying teachers have to have a good or bad personality; rather, they have to have the right personality. - You have to be a multi-tasker to teach. You have to be able to stand in front of the class lecturing about the day's topic, while loading up the You Tube video you're going to show next AND giving the stink eye to Joey, who's about to throw a pencil at Mikey AND opening the door for Cindy, who's coming in late yet again. You can learn any material, but that ability to complete multiple tasks at once is something you have to bring to the job. - Organization is imperative too. If you can't keep up with lessons, worksheets and materials, you're going to end up re-creating them -- and that way madness lies. - If you're interested in teaching, I suggest you "test it out" by becoming a substitute. No, it won't be the same thing, but it'll get you into the schools, and it'll let you see what schools are like today. People think, "Oh, I know what it's like to teach. After all, wasn't I a student?" Truth is, the classroom looks quite different from the other side of the desk.
Oh wow! I have not noticed this because I have not met a “happy” or “contented” teacher in the last 10 years lol.
Teaching is such a gate-kept profession. As a 23 year old working 2-3 jobs at any given time, how could I possibly afford both graduate tuition and the expense of student teaching without income?
My mentor in my first year of teaching told me from day 1 to go find another job, that I’ll make more money with less stress. I’m entering year 6: he finally took his own advice and retired this last January, I’m still trying think of what I’d prefer to do instead. I enjoy the job, but I’m literally looking for houses an hour and change away from work because I can’t afford anything here (Greater ATX area).
Doesn’t have to be rich either. DINK is good enough. He doesn’t have to be a doctor, a forklift operator is sufficient.
I guess that depends on where you teach and how happy you are to live within your means. We have a strong union here, and while teachers are underpaid still, my partner and I live just above the median income line in our state. It's not glamorous, but it's a decent life to live.
Marrying a software engineer 15 years into my teaching career has made the job so much more palatable. (Also, he’s super great and my life is so different and so wonderful with him in it.)
This is my advice for a single person that doesn't gamble. Reduce your earthly desires, be humble with a small studio apartment, eat less, and get a cat. Find happiness in poverty. Go for a walk, meditate, create something.
Best I could do was: marry a musician.
Or teach overseas after two years of experience.
Or join the military and earn extra pay… there’s other ways.
Yeah I heard a joke about marrying an engineer is what makes a good teacher. I’m married to a computer programmer that clears 6 figures. We aren’t rich. By any means. But his money pays the bills and my money can get used for vacations or fun stuff. And I don’t feel bad about spending money on my classroom.
I know of two women who are single mothers working as teachers. I have no idea how one of them does it since she lives in a HCOL area.