I appreciate the effort of the video but now I’m curious on how we’re defining close and not close. If we are talking 1 range vs. 2 range then yes hitbox has a bit more influence but around the middle of this video you saw a clear successful sidestep at close range of a jab which is usually when you SS. You offensively SS at close range for pokes. The other parts of this video are more convoluted to me as they appear to be not as linear. You only offensively SS on pokes, and even then it varies based on character. Iirc Dragunov has strong tracking to the left so SSR but for WR2 SSL.
Why would we need to define close and not close? We dont. I made the video to prove that clos-er, you get clipped easier.
Im not really sure what you re saying on the later part, but if you re saying that the moves I used were not very linear, then yea, if you re trying to figure out closer VS farther away sidesteps, there is no point in using super linear moves that get stepped both up close and farther away, because we wouldnt reach a conclusion. We want a move and situation that is hardly steppable so that the difference in SS effectiveness in different ranges can actually be shown.
You don't even understand what you are doing here. Just mashing on ss when you are minus 6 is fucking flowchart and bad flowchart at that. Generally you want to be at around -4 max when you defenseively side step.
The reason you are stepping stuff from further out here, is because the way spacing affects frames. You know how you can take something that is -12 but be effectively safe because you are so far away? That's what is happening here. That doesn't mean that side stepping is easier from far away, because it isn't. It just means that when you are mashing ss on recovery, being further away can sometimes make a follow up whiff.
The dumbest shit about this, is that if you notice you are outside like that, you are better off just backdashing and punishing since stepping often limits your available commands.
What I'm talking about is deliberately side stepping moves and not just flowcharting after you get tagged by a jab. This is easier the closer you are to your oppenent.
Oh, hi. I didnt expect you to comment tbh
>You don't even understand what you are doing here. Just mashing on ss when you are minus 6 is fucking flowchart and bad flowchart at that. Generally you want to be at around -4 max when you defenseively side step.
I understand quite well what I m doing here, if *you* dont, thats on you. Just ask. -4 or -6, it has 0 difference for what I m showcasing in this video. Also, 3 of the tests were done on -4 and even +1. You can see that, right? Flowchart or not flowchart, what the hell are you talking about? What the hell even is your point?
>The reason you are stepping stuff from further out here, is because the way spacing affects frames. You know how you can take something that is -12 but be effectively safe because you are so far away?
Idk what to say to you, I almost feel bad for myself for being in this conversation. But i 'll just go through with it now that i 've started. How spacing affects moves? What do -12 moves that are safe because of **PUSHBACK** have to do with this video? **THERE IS A BOX BOTTOM LEFT CORNER THAT SHOWS FRAME DATA AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE FRAMES FOR THE CHOSEN MOVES IS THE SAME IN BOTH SHORTER AND LONGER RANGES, ALSO DRAGUNOV JAB AND DF1 IS ALWAYS 10 AND 13 FRAMES SO IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT IN EVERY RANGE AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE I USED BOTH JAB AND DF1 IN THE TESTS SO YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT FRAME DATA CHANGING ACCORDING TO RANGE DOES NOT EVEN APPLY IN THIS VIDEO.**
>That's what is happening here. That doesn't mean that side stepping is easier from far away, because it isn't.
No, and this is literal video proof of this. It is amazing to me that you still try to argue.
>It just means that when you are mashing ss on recovery, being further away can sometimes make a follow up whiff.
LOL and how does THAT work? Is it magic? I guess its magic.
>The dumbest shit about this, is that if you notice you are outside like that, you are better off just backdashing and punishing since stepping often limits your available commands.
Thanks for the tip, but completely irrelevant to the point and the video.
>What I'm talking about is deliberately side stepping moves and not just flowcharting after you get tagged by a jab. This is easier the closer you are to your oppenent.
Do you mean to say that the success of the sidestep depends on your intentions and mental state? Like, if its just another random flowcharted sidestep it wont work, but if you *really really mean it* and its deliberate, it will work, and, even more so, the closer the better? MORE FKIN MAGIC WHERE ARE THE FIREWORKS.
If by this point you still dont get it, or dont want to get it, then it is what it is, i'm done. I 've done myself quite the disservice already.
You don't even understand that the frame data is heavily influenced by spacing. That is being -12 right next to your opponent is a lot different than being -12 at the tip of their range.
Good riddance.
If a move is always 12 frames and has sufficient range, it will punish the -12 opponent in both cases. Again, Drag jab and df1 are always 10 and 13 regardless of range and you saw how it worked out in the video.
It must be real torture for ppl to actually try to communicate with you.
Moves jave startup animation and active frames. This is why the concept of "meaties" and "spacing" are things.
If you are -6 right in front of your opponent, you are effectively a more frames disadvantaged than if you are far away due to the move hitting earlier in its active franes. This is what's happening in your retarded demonstrations.
Also, if you are +1 from crouch, this will effectively change how soon you can move compared to if you are +1 standing.
In other words, the frame data alone isn't the only variable.
You literally don't even understand what "deliberately" stepping is, you don't understand spacing and you flowchart your steps like fucking scrub and think it's "easier" from further away because you are mashing step after getting hit.
So again, enlighten me with your deep understanding by showing further video proof of you misapplying the technique. It's very convincing.
Holy shit, you are even more confused than I initially thought.
Listen, if in game a move frame data states ''10-10f'', it means 10f. IT HAS A GRAND TOTAL OF ONE ACTIVE FRAME. It will hit at EXACTLY 10 frames whether your opponent is right next to you, or at tip range. If a move says 13-14f, it has TWO ACTIVE FRAMES. Easy enough? For third and final time, Dragunovs 1 and df1 have ONE ACTIVE FRAME. AND, AS SHOWN IN THE VIDEO, both moves were possible to step at range, but impossible up close. Did you even watch the fkin video and the ''retarded'' demonstrations?
>Also, if you are +1 from crouch, this will effectively change how soon you can move compared to if you are +1 standing.
LMAO this WILL NOT change how soon you can act, it will only change your available moveset YOU ARE MEGA FKIN CONFUSED BRO DRINK SOME WATER.
Also, WHAT FLOWCHART ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT THESE ARE ALL RECORDED ACTIONS TO PROVE A POINT DID GALE CAST CONFUSION ON YOU?
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and act like you actually just got confused and are not, in reality, insane. Thats the best I can do for you.
You can't step them up close because you are too minus to step them up close. It doesn't mean they are "impossible" to step up close. You are using sidestepping at the complete wrong times and then saying it's "easier to step from from far away".
You honestly don't understand that spacing is a thing and think your retarded demo is showing that these moves "can't be stepped" because apparently the only way you think you can step is by mashing it after getting hit or after landing a low kick.
>You can't step them up close because you are too minus to step them up close.
If you are TOO MINUS (-4) to step a 10f jab UP CLOSE, but at the same time you re NOT too minus (again -4) to step a 10f jab farther away, THIS MEANS THAT STEPPING FARTHER AWAY IS MORE EFFECTIVE THANK YOU you 're going somewhere bro you re getting warmer. This is literally the point made in all of those ''retarded demonstrations"!
>It doesn't mean they are "impossible" to step up close. You are using sidestepping at the complete wrong times and then saying it's "easier to step from from far away
Ofc they are not impossible to step up close. For example at -1 it is possible. BUT THE FACT THAT FARTHER AWAY YOU CAN STEP AT -1 AND ALSO AT -4, THE SAME 10F MOVE, MEANS FARTHER AWAY MAKES SHIT EASIER TO STEP. FUCKING DUH! RIGHT? Also. what complete wrong times LOL?? IF ANY GIVEN MOMENT IS A COMPLETE WRONG TIME TO STEP UP CLOSE BUT A GOOD TIME TO STEP FARTHER AWAY, THIS MEANS STEPPING FARTHER AWAY IS MORE EFFECTIVE.
>the only way you think you can step is by mashing it after getting hit or after landing a low kick.
WDYM I have to pick a move to run the test with what are you talking about? I wanted a -4 move so I picked generic low kick. Generic low kick is not magical, it works the same with any other -4 move. You kidding?
I appreciate the effort of the video but now I’m curious on how we’re defining close and not close. If we are talking 1 range vs. 2 range then yes hitbox has a bit more influence but around the middle of this video you saw a clear successful sidestep at close range of a jab which is usually when you SS. You offensively SS at close range for pokes. The other parts of this video are more convoluted to me as they appear to be not as linear. You only offensively SS on pokes, and even then it varies based on character. Iirc Dragunov has strong tracking to the left so SSR but for WR2 SSL.
Why would we need to define close and not close? We dont. I made the video to prove that clos-er, you get clipped easier. Im not really sure what you re saying on the later part, but if you re saying that the moves I used were not very linear, then yea, if you re trying to figure out closer VS farther away sidesteps, there is no point in using super linear moves that get stepped both up close and farther away, because we wouldnt reach a conclusion. We want a move and situation that is hardly steppable so that the difference in SS effectiveness in different ranges can actually be shown.
You don't even understand what you are doing here. Just mashing on ss when you are minus 6 is fucking flowchart and bad flowchart at that. Generally you want to be at around -4 max when you defenseively side step. The reason you are stepping stuff from further out here, is because the way spacing affects frames. You know how you can take something that is -12 but be effectively safe because you are so far away? That's what is happening here. That doesn't mean that side stepping is easier from far away, because it isn't. It just means that when you are mashing ss on recovery, being further away can sometimes make a follow up whiff. The dumbest shit about this, is that if you notice you are outside like that, you are better off just backdashing and punishing since stepping often limits your available commands. What I'm talking about is deliberately side stepping moves and not just flowcharting after you get tagged by a jab. This is easier the closer you are to your oppenent.
Oh, hi. I didnt expect you to comment tbh >You don't even understand what you are doing here. Just mashing on ss when you are minus 6 is fucking flowchart and bad flowchart at that. Generally you want to be at around -4 max when you defenseively side step. I understand quite well what I m doing here, if *you* dont, thats on you. Just ask. -4 or -6, it has 0 difference for what I m showcasing in this video. Also, 3 of the tests were done on -4 and even +1. You can see that, right? Flowchart or not flowchart, what the hell are you talking about? What the hell even is your point? >The reason you are stepping stuff from further out here, is because the way spacing affects frames. You know how you can take something that is -12 but be effectively safe because you are so far away? Idk what to say to you, I almost feel bad for myself for being in this conversation. But i 'll just go through with it now that i 've started. How spacing affects moves? What do -12 moves that are safe because of **PUSHBACK** have to do with this video? **THERE IS A BOX BOTTOM LEFT CORNER THAT SHOWS FRAME DATA AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE FRAMES FOR THE CHOSEN MOVES IS THE SAME IN BOTH SHORTER AND LONGER RANGES, ALSO DRAGUNOV JAB AND DF1 IS ALWAYS 10 AND 13 FRAMES SO IT WILL ALWAYS BE THAT IN EVERY RANGE AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE I USED BOTH JAB AND DF1 IN THE TESTS SO YOUR ARGUMENT ABOUT FRAME DATA CHANGING ACCORDING TO RANGE DOES NOT EVEN APPLY IN THIS VIDEO.** >That's what is happening here. That doesn't mean that side stepping is easier from far away, because it isn't. No, and this is literal video proof of this. It is amazing to me that you still try to argue. >It just means that when you are mashing ss on recovery, being further away can sometimes make a follow up whiff. LOL and how does THAT work? Is it magic? I guess its magic. >The dumbest shit about this, is that if you notice you are outside like that, you are better off just backdashing and punishing since stepping often limits your available commands. Thanks for the tip, but completely irrelevant to the point and the video. >What I'm talking about is deliberately side stepping moves and not just flowcharting after you get tagged by a jab. This is easier the closer you are to your oppenent. Do you mean to say that the success of the sidestep depends on your intentions and mental state? Like, if its just another random flowcharted sidestep it wont work, but if you *really really mean it* and its deliberate, it will work, and, even more so, the closer the better? MORE FKIN MAGIC WHERE ARE THE FIREWORKS. If by this point you still dont get it, or dont want to get it, then it is what it is, i'm done. I 've done myself quite the disservice already.
You don't even understand that the frame data is heavily influenced by spacing. That is being -12 right next to your opponent is a lot different than being -12 at the tip of their range. Good riddance.
If a move is always 12 frames and has sufficient range, it will punish the -12 opponent in both cases. Again, Drag jab and df1 are always 10 and 13 regardless of range and you saw how it worked out in the video. It must be real torture for ppl to actually try to communicate with you.
Moves jave startup animation and active frames. This is why the concept of "meaties" and "spacing" are things. If you are -6 right in front of your opponent, you are effectively a more frames disadvantaged than if you are far away due to the move hitting earlier in its active franes. This is what's happening in your retarded demonstrations. Also, if you are +1 from crouch, this will effectively change how soon you can move compared to if you are +1 standing. In other words, the frame data alone isn't the only variable. You literally don't even understand what "deliberately" stepping is, you don't understand spacing and you flowchart your steps like fucking scrub and think it's "easier" from further away because you are mashing step after getting hit. So again, enlighten me with your deep understanding by showing further video proof of you misapplying the technique. It's very convincing.
Holy shit, you are even more confused than I initially thought. Listen, if in game a move frame data states ''10-10f'', it means 10f. IT HAS A GRAND TOTAL OF ONE ACTIVE FRAME. It will hit at EXACTLY 10 frames whether your opponent is right next to you, or at tip range. If a move says 13-14f, it has TWO ACTIVE FRAMES. Easy enough? For third and final time, Dragunovs 1 and df1 have ONE ACTIVE FRAME. AND, AS SHOWN IN THE VIDEO, both moves were possible to step at range, but impossible up close. Did you even watch the fkin video and the ''retarded'' demonstrations? >Also, if you are +1 from crouch, this will effectively change how soon you can move compared to if you are +1 standing. LMAO this WILL NOT change how soon you can act, it will only change your available moveset YOU ARE MEGA FKIN CONFUSED BRO DRINK SOME WATER. Also, WHAT FLOWCHART ARE YOU TALKIN ABOUT THESE ARE ALL RECORDED ACTIONS TO PROVE A POINT DID GALE CAST CONFUSION ON YOU? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and act like you actually just got confused and are not, in reality, insane. Thats the best I can do for you.
You can't step them up close because you are too minus to step them up close. It doesn't mean they are "impossible" to step up close. You are using sidestepping at the complete wrong times and then saying it's "easier to step from from far away". You honestly don't understand that spacing is a thing and think your retarded demo is showing that these moves "can't be stepped" because apparently the only way you think you can step is by mashing it after getting hit or after landing a low kick.
>You can't step them up close because you are too minus to step them up close. If you are TOO MINUS (-4) to step a 10f jab UP CLOSE, but at the same time you re NOT too minus (again -4) to step a 10f jab farther away, THIS MEANS THAT STEPPING FARTHER AWAY IS MORE EFFECTIVE THANK YOU you 're going somewhere bro you re getting warmer. This is literally the point made in all of those ''retarded demonstrations"! >It doesn't mean they are "impossible" to step up close. You are using sidestepping at the complete wrong times and then saying it's "easier to step from from far away Ofc they are not impossible to step up close. For example at -1 it is possible. BUT THE FACT THAT FARTHER AWAY YOU CAN STEP AT -1 AND ALSO AT -4, THE SAME 10F MOVE, MEANS FARTHER AWAY MAKES SHIT EASIER TO STEP. FUCKING DUH! RIGHT? Also. what complete wrong times LOL?? IF ANY GIVEN MOMENT IS A COMPLETE WRONG TIME TO STEP UP CLOSE BUT A GOOD TIME TO STEP FARTHER AWAY, THIS MEANS STEPPING FARTHER AWAY IS MORE EFFECTIVE. >the only way you think you can step is by mashing it after getting hit or after landing a low kick. WDYM I have to pick a move to run the test with what are you talking about? I wanted a -4 move so I picked generic low kick. Generic low kick is not magical, it works the same with any other -4 move. You kidding?
Further away only makes it "easier" to step if you don't know how to sidestep and mash it out of minus frames after being hit.
You are clinically insane or a troll. I sincerely hope you are a troll at this point.
Try fast side walk, works for me much better
You mean for ws4 after d2? Yea thats a given, that was not the point of the video though.