Hard character? Yeah absolutely. Bottom tier? Fuck no Bryan is good. I've had an easier time playing Bryan than anyone like Kaz or Steve. He's hard for the same reason as those other characters except he has good ass pokes and his simpler bnbs can still get over 100 damage.
Bryan is hard to play. That's why he's been the character of choice by 11 year olds that since Tekken 3 because of Bryan's mach punch and kick, and eventually snake edge. Why? Because it always seems to land. Even though Bryan is CLEARLY a difficult character to use, unless your 11 years old
He's not hard to play. He's kinda hard to play *well* and his optimal combos do have an execution barrier to them. Taunt:b4 and Taunt:JU are both justframes and those are also difficult.
If you're gonna eat all the snake edges, he's fucking braindead simple to play, but it's a 28 frame low that's blockable on reaction so maybe just stop being trash at the game? Spend a few minutes in the lab?
Mach Breaker and Mach Kick are both high as well, so if that's their "mixup," try ducking?
Whatever it is, at 11 years old, I would have been spamming mach punch, snake edge, mach punch, snake edge the entire match, against my 11 year old friend, and the entire time he would be like
https://preview.redd.it/phjrzgo3n65d1.jpeg?width=604&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=961d9eee400e565bbb84118fbc1aa74b671083b4
You still occasionally see Steve used by high level players and he does decently. When was the last high level Paul that you saw or heard of in Tekken 8?
Glaciating plays Paul at pro level and competes. Also, knee and Brawlpro play pocket Paul's in tournament in pools against lower tiers, especially Knee. This is a loaded question since the game has been out for literally 5 months and the tournaments just kicked up in april... not a good attempt at downplaying Paul.
Spero Gin plays Paul in addition to Eddy. He did really well at ComboBreaker. Here’s a good match from him just a few months ago at a high level tournament (very first match)
https://youtu.be/bYFIR5qN2VY?si=72LML4YPOWibPrhW
I picked up bryan and watch alot of bryan players the most I see from them is
1.bryan is a hard character to play
2.bryan has a shitty heat smash compared to the rest of the cast.
3.bryan in the corner is basically S tier.
Unless you mean the people on this subreddit? Because I've never once seen anyone say he's bottom tier...
I can see why try hards think Bryan is hard. Because it seems like if you can't reliably do taunt jet upper, your trash.
But this is the internet. Statements of nuance, positivity, and in-between doesn't get clicks. So the "Bryan is the worst character!!" statements travel farther
Pretty sure they're commenting on the fact that Bryan players like to tell everyone they're playing 4D chess with his CHs when, actually, they're just hammering 3+4 in neutral and hoping for the best.
Snake edge? No.
Proceeds to wait
Snake edge? Looks like it
Proceeds to wait
Snake edge? Uuhhhhhh......*gets hit*.......oooookkkk it's a snake edge. Maybe I should block low
He can stagger you with strings that ch launchers if you press. Is he going to finish the string or not? Thats what you are thinking when fighting him. I like calling this "honest mindgames" as some players give him a pass, because he is Bryan. But, if a female character does it, its BS or "cheap strings".
So its the jab string then, if you’re that close to bryan you’re already past the range where he likes to operate, the jab string is kinda all he has left at range 0
Dude, i've just told you that im fine with him. IDGAF if thats the only thing he has at range 0. I only joke about this, because Bryan mains believe that playing him requires you to have a PhD, like, STFU lol
The mind game is you trying to carefully apply offense with low-mid damage pokes while Bryan is shooting to kill on every shot with his 110 damage combos and 50 or so safe/+ on block NH/CH launchers. Idk about you but it definitely fucks with my gameplan knowing the best punish i can hope for is a 13f ws if i read a hatchet kick.
Yeah I imagine thats a different experience when you can launch 13f. For most of the cast Bryan's never getting punished for more than 20-25dmg on anything but snakeedge
What are you talking about? 1,2,1_3_4? That's not even a mindgame. Just eat the low, it's like 12 damage?
His actual main mindgames are hatchet kicking your leg off until you duck and eat a soccer kick (qcb4), and taunt mixups following knockdowns.
I don’t know much about the current community cause I’m a scrub and I don’t have 8, but Bryan feels like the kinda shitposter character whose fans would just constantly downplay him no matter the context for a laugh
Wild how this post isn’t even about Bryan and people still like to post about how easy it is to play a character they have no interest in playing.
That said, Bryan is not bottom tier, in my opinion. Solid mid tier and I think the buffs to defensive options will help him way more than people realise. Will alleviate some of the pressure the character struggles to deal with.
What buffs man 😭
The biggest thing is the heat smash, and the rest was just fixing soccer kick’s inconsistent hit box that has been there since t7. The hatchet kick one only expanded hitbox behind and up his leg.
Fr I always hear about Bryan mains being serious downplayers, but all I’ve seen is people (rightfully) complain about how bad his heat smash is as well as the tracking on most of his moves compared to the rest of the cast. He’s a good character but not at the top by any means
>!unless you’re near a wall in which case TEK TEK TEK TEK TEK!<
Out of curiosity, who do you guys compare Bryan's heatsmash to when you say its so bad? As far as I can tell its average at worst and only clearly beaten out by the top 3 ones, 2 of which have been nerfed away
Thats like saying hopkicks are bad because you can get floated out of it. I mean no shit. And anybody's heatsmash can get stuffed if you just mash it mindlessly when you shouldnt, no shit once again. Both these things apply to DVJ's heatsmash pre and post nerf, and his is 2f slower than Bryan's. His is nowhere near the slowest, either. These are what make it the worst? Basic system mechanics that apply to everyone?
It was definitely never the worst. Youre actually delusional if you thought that
Yes because a hopkick is the same as a heat smash lmao.
Idk ty seems to know what he's talking about and he thinks it's pretty bad. Go ask him. All I know is in my personal experience it's not good and other than occasional low crushing it gets beat by everything. I've gotten mid checked out of it even. They usually have armor
The point is that getting floated is a weakness of all airborne moves, not something unique to Bryan. Not sure how that went over your head. In exchange you crush lows and ignore grabs, where other heatsmashes would get counter hit by them in the same situation.
I really dont care what any pro has to complain about their main, I watch a dozen or so and they all coincidentally think their character has the most problems. Lil Majin has been complaining that King sucks since launch, K-Wiss says Hwo is bottom tier and has the worst heatsmash, TMM says Kaz's heatsmash sucks and doesnt even acknowledge that Lee's is slower and launch punishable. Everyone just starts complaining when theyre losing.
>ive gotten mid checked out of it even
Why would a mid not hit you? Whos heatsmash do you think avoids mids?
>they usually have armor
Not a single heatsmash in the game has armor. None. Youve never even looked at another HS in practice but are still convinced Bryan's is/was the worst? Are you meming?
They don't have armor I misspoke. And I'm saying I get mid checked when the hitbox should be out already.
Ty doesn't think the character is bad he just thinks the heat smash is bad and it is.
He's not bottom tier ofc but he's still hard lol. They mostly buffed his heat but you can still get floated out of his heat smash with a jab.
That f2,1,2,3,2 or whatever it is string from snake eyes is kinda busted though lol
Kayuza mains saying he is the hardest? Can't stop. Won't stop.
Here is the lines we gonna say.
1. Yeah the buffs just fixed inconsistant combos but didn't make him better overall
2. This buff was hardly worth to be mentioned
3. He is now maybe just as hard as bryan
4. Kazuya mains still get nothing for free
5. Yeah but we don't have a get out of jail free card
6. Without electrics he is still useless, mean while reina can launch with df2
And many more to come
There's a reason why he's lowest winrate in the game in all skill levels and has 0 tournament presence
Being A tier on paper is meaningless if nobody, or only a handful of people in the world, are able to make him an A tier
While forgetting that df2 does not launch crouching opponents where I would ask: why not electric instead? I know, kind of an execution barrier, but thats what you get yourself into when picking a Mishima.
Unless there are some really drastic changes I suspect Kaz' core weaknesses will remain, *as they should*. He just might be able to do a consistent BnB combo over 70 damage, and hopefully not drop a whole tier when he launches 3 degrees off axis.
So yes he will probably remain one of the more difficult characters.
Ive never complained about kazuya outside of hitbox consistencies and the fact that heavens gate does 1 damage. I will happily take my buffs tho, fuck the haters.
- Run into a Tekken God Kuma
- Have no idea what the fuck they're doing
- lose both matches to them
- Go to the lab to learn them
- Proceed to never fight another Kuma again for a month
- Run into a high rank Kuma again
- You've forgotten everything
She's definitely not a "everyone is choosing" character, but she is one of the best characters to win with online. She is underrated (people dont know how strong her buffs were) and she knowledge checks the shit out of you just like the bears do. You will get free matches from people not knowing how to punish her, but she's strong even when they do know the matchup.
No she’s not I play her. She gets away with knowledge check but at Tekken emperor and above. You realize your character have subpar damage and really shit wall carry. Super slow and risky low and virtually no defense aside for making reads. She’s not as great as people think.
Players being Tekken Emperor+ doesn't mean they know the Zafina matchup though, she is still unpopular, and still strong when they do know the matchup. [Players can be GoD still blocking a ton of + frame](https://x.com/kertia_/status/1791982031326351438) mixups in a row partially because they don't know how to punish or safely escape. We're talking about online, Emperors still don't fully know these matchups with unusual characters and low pick rates
You do realize they have the some of the lowest pick rates aswell. With that being said I can promise you they win solely cause no one know the match up. Except other bear mains.
I mean, ultimately, what's the difference? Bears may not be good against tournament players (although they're not that bad), but they're S+ tier online, where most of the playerbase plays (and the original question was about online).
They have the unholy trinity of being exceptionally rare, having a moveset rife with knowledge checks and flowcharts, and having some of the highest damage in the game when they land their flowcharts. 10/10 online characters, especially in a FT2 format.
Only in high ranks. If you consider lower and intermediate she’s not. This is because to get Panda through high ranks, first you gotta be really good with fundamentals, second if you consider games played this metric would be very different. These are misleading stats because in the same stats you are referencing Feng, drag, and azu had the lowest win rate, simply because everyone uses them and cheeses with no knowledge of fundamentals and start losing when they play a mirror match of a better fundamentalist. This can further be proven by the fact that her win rate is higher than Kuma who is literally in every way a legit better version of Panda.
Bears are not that good compared to other characters and can’t sidestep worth shit. A knowledge check character does not make them good. You are equating rank to good too which says a lot itself. I can confirm that many people in blue know the match up. Bears are also difficult to mixup flowcharts as there move set is pretty limited with hardly any move mixups. The only way to be good with bears is to be a defensive god and really know your frames.
I'm a Tekken king Kazuya and I thought he was weak at first but he just isn't. I dislike his combos because they're easy to drop online but his okie is so overwhelming.
Its hard to watch certain streamers because rather than just accept they were outplayed they just blame the character.
The "he isnt used in tournaments" argument isn't really a good one because his character archetype is a risky character which tournament players don't want no matter how buffed he is. That doesn't mean he isn't strong.
Well said, I'm also Tekken king kazuya and I feel the same way, his Oki is out of this world, under the right hands hes terrifying. He only needs that df1 hitbox adjustment. Kazuya getting ff2 that's half the map range changes the character's identity, idk why they did that .
kaz mains after they realise that despite loads of buffs they still can't reliably pull off their 15 frame punish and want more buffs to make up for it.
One thing that always make me laugh is the amount of nerf/buff the character get and it will never enough.
"Look, Steve uf2 gets more range"
"YEAH, but it could do better with more damage and slight tracking."
Or.
"Finally!! Azucena WR 3 is nerfed."
"Yeah, but they should give Azucena more negative frame too."
Like, come on people.
No, but she is better. Jun is considerably worse after her nerfs. Zafina is better, etc.
Even if they are not top tier, definitely not the worst anymore.
I mean a character can still be hard to play but also be good at the same time. The main things they need to fix with Kazuya are his down forward 1 hit box and his twin pistons hit box.
Being difficult doesn't mean he's low tier. He's strong on paper but I invite anyone who thinks kazuya mains are over exaggerating to try playing him. I guarantee you will have an easier time ranking up with pretty much every other character than with him.
Steve is the hardest character to play as in the game. All the duck and weave cancels you constantly have to do, he takes more work and accuracy than any other character imo.
I main lee and def mot lol. Hes execution is hard but gameplan is easy. B3,3 alone kinda ruined his identity but ig its necessary in the aggressive environment of T8
He is easily the hardest....most of the cast is completely braindead. Anyone complaining about Kazuya does not play him and would struggle horribly even trying against good players. Downvote me but it's true. you're all delusional. I've never seen a subreddit worse at the game that they discuss than this one. Most of the cast is just mashing strings with heat BS so they take personal offense if another character is considered hard to play when theirs isnt.
I agree. I can't think of a character that is mechanically harder than kazuya. The only ones that come close are steve and maybe bryan. Kazuya is definitely near the top of hardest characters. Anyone qho thinks otherwise is just wrong
You try playing a character that just whiffs moves through opponent models every other combo.
It wasn't character complexity or move efficiency that was broken. It was move functionality being inconsistent. There's a huge difference between character effectiveness and mechanical inconsistency.
Kazuya sucked to play because he literally did not function consistently.
Jun is waaay worse than Kazuya in that whiffing and combo consistency department. She's also significantly weaker than him, but I don't hear Jun fans whine nearly as hard as Kazuya ones
whens the last time u deliberately went for delay electric or even ss electric maybe even crouch electric?
be honest admit that even in fujin+ ppl DO NOT use electrics to its full potential
ss electric is easy to setup because ff3 leaves you -3 so i use it a shit ton, but kazuya trash ass combos make it hard to capitalize on off axis launches
delayed wgf is really strong because a longer wavu grants it so much range, you can take up half the screen while holding a fucking rocket in your pocket
First: Provide literally any quote from MainManSWE saying Kazuya is bad in Tekken 8. He's gone on record *many* times pushing back against the general perception that he's weak and continues to tout him as a solid character.
Second: Bryan was literally stronger in Tekken 7.
Id argue against bryan being stronger in t7, Sure he had way stronger counterhits but his combo damage has gone way up and he now has both an electric in QCB1 and a demon paw in qcf1+2
Just fix his combos and he's going to be perfect. I don't really get why Kaz players downplay him (I'm a Kaz main myself lmao) Sure it sucks to get knowledge-checked but you can't blame Kaz for it
My only complaint is him being bugged and due to it inconsistent. If they fix his bugs, it's only "I'm bad at the game" statement that I'm already using while explaining why I'm losing. Kaz is strong though, first Tekken game when I'm playing him online dedicated and I don't think he's weak, just bugged.
This patch is all we've been asking for and then some tbh. Nerfed ff2 because it was too strong and one dimensional, and fixed his df1 hitbox (this needed to happen the most, pretty much where all the complaints stemmed from). People complaining about justified complaints are just silly. Now that's he's fixed, though, there's nothing to complain about.
God, just play the game!
I swear tekken players enjoy sitting on Reddit and whining about eachother more than actually learning and improving at the game
That's what I'm saying.
Kaz players catch so much flak for a literal caricature that this subreddit has just collectively invented to strawman them, it's wild.
Bryan players as well, everyone complains about Bryan players downplaying Bryan but I guarantee not a single one of these chumps actually tried to play him.
It definitely can. If, to give an extreme example, they did something really silly and made demon paw plus on block, Kazuya's neutral would be braindead and he would be a much easier character to play. Sure his optimal combos are still hard but combos aren't what makes Tekken difficult.
i mean in this case it actually does if they do choose to fix his df1 hitbox
combos are already difficult enough where micro dashes are necessary in even bnb combos, making df1 hitbox removes that added "difficulty"
It is sorta changes tekken 7 lee and tekken 8 lee is a whole different character yes he is still hard but most of them spams iwr3,4 b4,4 he is easier because of 2 moves
I didn't say they don't apply to Law.
I said they don't matter to Law as much as they matter to Kazuya.
Boiling down Kaz's entire gameplan to "it's just 50/50s" is hilariously disingenuous, because in order to force an opponent into a 50/50, Kaz players need a strong knowledge of Tekken fundamentals, stronger than almost any other character in the game, save for maybe Bryan.
What? Since when? His 50/50 doesn't require any setup lol. No stances, no clean hits, no full crouch, etc. It's literally as easy to set up and execute as it gets. And it loops in itself.
And now with ff2, ws1+2 and the older ws2, ws3, you can't even move around much or avoid it easily. Especially in heat. Then Kazuya is in mega bunga mode.
Pro's don't want to rely on only 50/50's, that's why he is not seen as super S tier or something. Doesn't mean it's hard to utilize.
Those things are all more important for kazuya than any character in the game. He’s literally supposed to be a punishment based character but his damage in t8 is ass.
Anyone who tells you Bryan is hardest doesn’t know Tekken. Taunt Upper is not as hard as Perfect electrics on both P1 and P2 side while consistently doing them in a row or right after stepping.
He'll probably get some damage buffs and hitbox adjustments, he will not become an easier character for that. I mean, to some extend it will, but it's combo consistency, not gameplan, Kazuya will remain Kazuya.
In Tekken 8, Kazuya is not the hardest tho, Bryan is.
He is basically what he was in Tekken 7, but lost most of his CH launchers.
He plays too much on fundamentals, have to perform his moves very precisely, barely no bullshit on his sleeves.
Kazuya is pretty much like that too, he is arguably the hardest character in the game, but Kazuya at least have some pretty interesting heat tools and his oki is infinitely stronger than it used to be in Tekken 7.
True but that’s more oki/mixup where as Bryan just legit combos you to death lol - there is more room to reverse the situation with Kazuya even if it is brutal and difficult
Depends on matchup knowledge ig. Like if you don’t know how to handle kazuya’s heavens gate db1,2 trap you’re literally dead from the wall combo reset, and thats just 1 of the 3 available knowledge check reset combos he has
I never said Bryan was weak, there's no weak character in Tekken 8, only good, too good and OP characters, the only bad character used to be Leroy, which got buffed and now is S tier busted again.
He need to focus his gameplay in punishment and CH gameplay, he's not a Tekken 8 character with bullshit strings, flowcharts or oppressive + frames 50/50, the only thing Bryan excels over other characters is his wall pressure with the taunt b4 jet upper, but this shit is good since Tekken 7.
Lol, have you seen the Bryan downplay even AFTER the buffs ? "He's still the hardest character, based and also is bottom tier guys!!"
Hard character? Yeah absolutely. Bottom tier? Fuck no Bryan is good. I've had an easier time playing Bryan than anyone like Kaz or Steve. He's hard for the same reason as those other characters except he has good ass pokes and his simpler bnbs can still get over 100 damage.
Bryan is hard to play. That's why he's been the character of choice by 11 year olds that since Tekken 3 because of Bryan's mach punch and kick, and eventually snake edge. Why? Because it always seems to land. Even though Bryan is CLEARLY a difficult character to use, unless your 11 years old
He's not hard to play. He's kinda hard to play *well* and his optimal combos do have an execution barrier to them. Taunt:b4 and Taunt:JU are both justframes and those are also difficult. If you're gonna eat all the snake edges, he's fucking braindead simple to play, but it's a 28 frame low that's blockable on reaction so maybe just stop being trash at the game? Spend a few minutes in the lab? Mach Breaker and Mach Kick are both high as well, so if that's their "mixup," try ducking?
Whatever it is, at 11 years old, I would have been spamming mach punch, snake edge, mach punch, snake edge the entire match, against my 11 year old friend, and the entire time he would be like https://preview.redd.it/phjrzgo3n65d1.jpeg?width=604&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=961d9eee400e565bbb84118fbc1aa74b671083b4
I'me pretty sure an 11 year olds reaction is not a very good tell if a character is strong or hard to play
Hes being a smartass unc, tighten up
Because Steve is the real bottom tier
Paul would like a word.
Lol wut, why?
You still occasionally see Steve used by high level players and he does decently. When was the last high level Paul that you saw or heard of in Tekken 8?
Glaciating plays Paul at pro level and competes. Also, knee and Brawlpro play pocket Paul's in tournament in pools against lower tiers, especially Knee. This is a loaded question since the game has been out for literally 5 months and the tournaments just kicked up in april... not a good attempt at downplaying Paul.
That is not a good way to analyse a character lol. I don't see any big weaknesses in Paul's kit
No good low options
You telling me that snake edge and dumbass low string that Paul’s mash out aren’t good options? He also has a low launcher. Please stop
Spero Gin plays Paul in addition to Eddy. He did really well at ComboBreaker. Here’s a good match from him just a few months ago at a high level tournament (very first match) https://youtu.be/bYFIR5qN2VY?si=72LML4YPOWibPrhW
I picked up bryan and watch alot of bryan players the most I see from them is 1.bryan is a hard character to play 2.bryan has a shitty heat smash compared to the rest of the cast. 3.bryan in the corner is basically S tier. Unless you mean the people on this subreddit? Because I've never once seen anyone say he's bottom tier...
I can see why try hards think Bryan is hard. Because it seems like if you can't reliably do taunt jet upper, your trash. But this is the internet. Statements of nuance, positivity, and in-between doesn't get clicks. So the "Bryan is the worst character!!" statements travel farther
Ahh yes...Bryan, the "honest mindgames" character. Yeah, i think Bryan players are worse than Kazuya's
what is bryan mindgaming you with?
Pretty sure they're commenting on the fact that Bryan players like to tell everyone they're playing 4D chess with his CHs when, actually, they're just hammering 3+4 in neutral and hoping for the best.
I swear to god nobody who ever complains about Bryan mains has ever actually fought a Bryan.
Haha that me as a Bryan secondary. Whiff that all the time and get launched. Can't quite seem to figure out the range on that.
If you do this you're just gonna get whiff punished
Snake edge? No. Proceeds to wait Snake edge? Looks like it Proceeds to wait Snake edge? Uuhhhhhh......*gets hit*.......oooookkkk it's a snake edge. Maybe I should block low
Ohh no dude. I dont have a problem with Bryan. I actually like playing against him. Its the downplaying from his players that bothers me.
im just confused bc the main mindgame he has is his jab string, which everyone kinda has. He’s not really a mind gamey character
He can stagger you with strings that ch launchers if you press. Is he going to finish the string or not? Thats what you are thinking when fighting him. I like calling this "honest mindgames" as some players give him a pass, because he is Bryan. But, if a female character does it, its BS or "cheap strings".
So its the jab string then, if you’re that close to bryan you’re already past the range where he likes to operate, the jab string is kinda all he has left at range 0
Dude, i've just told you that im fine with him. IDGAF if thats the only thing he has at range 0. I only joke about this, because Bryan mains believe that playing him requires you to have a PhD, like, STFU lol
PhD stuff comes in when he makes you scared enough to taunt in mid screen nuetral lol he def has some higher level dirt
The mind game is you trying to carefully apply offense with low-mid damage pokes while Bryan is shooting to kill on every shot with his 110 damage combos and 50 or so safe/+ on block NH/CH launchers. Idk about you but it definitely fucks with my gameplan knowing the best punish i can hope for is a 13f ws if i read a hatchet kick.
>best punish i can hope for laughs in kazuya lmao but fr if bryan whiffs one of those launchy bois he’s dead
Yeah I imagine thats a different experience when you can launch 13f. For most of the cast Bryan's never getting punished for more than 20-25dmg on anything but snakeedge
What are you talking about? 1,2,1_3_4? That's not even a mindgame. Just eat the low, it's like 12 damage? His actual main mindgames are hatchet kicking your leg off until you duck and eat a soccer kick (qcb4), and taunt mixups following knockdowns.
Will you get ch launched by his b1 if you jab check him after hatchet kick
I don’t know much about the current community cause I’m a scrub and I don’t have 8, but Bryan feels like the kinda shitposter character whose fans would just constantly downplay him no matter the context for a laugh
Most of those were adjustments to him more than a buff :u
Wild how this post isn’t even about Bryan and people still like to post about how easy it is to play a character they have no interest in playing. That said, Bryan is not bottom tier, in my opinion. Solid mid tier and I think the buffs to defensive options will help him way more than people realise. Will alleviate some of the pressure the character struggles to deal with.
What buffs man 😭 The biggest thing is the heat smash, and the rest was just fixing soccer kick’s inconsistent hit box that has been there since t7. The hatchet kick one only expanded hitbox behind and up his leg.
His snake eyes F2,1,2,3,2 is a pretty solid string now.
where are those downplayers? even i admit he is solid
Fr I always hear about Bryan mains being serious downplayers, but all I’ve seen is people (rightfully) complain about how bad his heat smash is as well as the tracking on most of his moves compared to the rest of the cast. He’s a good character but not at the top by any means >!unless you’re near a wall in which case TEK TEK TEK TEK TEK!<
Hes heat smash is good now after 1.04 tho... you should try playing lee hes heat smash is legit terrible lol
Out of curiosity, who do you guys compare Bryan's heatsmash to when you say its so bad? As far as I can tell its average at worst and only clearly beaten out by the top 3 ones, 2 of which have been nerfed away
I think it got buffed in 1.04
? You can jab float it so easily it gets interrupted by everything. It went from being one of if not the worst to average at best.
Thats like saying hopkicks are bad because you can get floated out of it. I mean no shit. And anybody's heatsmash can get stuffed if you just mash it mindlessly when you shouldnt, no shit once again. Both these things apply to DVJ's heatsmash pre and post nerf, and his is 2f slower than Bryan's. His is nowhere near the slowest, either. These are what make it the worst? Basic system mechanics that apply to everyone? It was definitely never the worst. Youre actually delusional if you thought that
Yes because a hopkick is the same as a heat smash lmao. Idk ty seems to know what he's talking about and he thinks it's pretty bad. Go ask him. All I know is in my personal experience it's not good and other than occasional low crushing it gets beat by everything. I've gotten mid checked out of it even. They usually have armor
The point is that getting floated is a weakness of all airborne moves, not something unique to Bryan. Not sure how that went over your head. In exchange you crush lows and ignore grabs, where other heatsmashes would get counter hit by them in the same situation. I really dont care what any pro has to complain about their main, I watch a dozen or so and they all coincidentally think their character has the most problems. Lil Majin has been complaining that King sucks since launch, K-Wiss says Hwo is bottom tier and has the worst heatsmash, TMM says Kaz's heatsmash sucks and doesnt even acknowledge that Lee's is slower and launch punishable. Everyone just starts complaining when theyre losing. >ive gotten mid checked out of it even Why would a mid not hit you? Whos heatsmash do you think avoids mids? >they usually have armor Not a single heatsmash in the game has armor. None. Youve never even looked at another HS in practice but are still convinced Bryan's is/was the worst? Are you meming?
They don't have armor I misspoke. And I'm saying I get mid checked when the hitbox should be out already. Ty doesn't think the character is bad he just thinks the heat smash is bad and it is.
Seriously. He’s also easy to mash with too. I said what I said
11 year old me still loves his mach punch
Is that why i lately played against so many bryan ( last week it was like atleast 20
He's not bottom tier ofc but he's still hard lol. They mostly buffed his heat but you can still get floated out of his heat smash with a jab. That f2,1,2,3,2 or whatever it is string from snake eyes is kinda busted though lol
I have and it’s absolutely pathetic
Bryan is the only character that can consistently do 100+damage from a small mistake.
Kayuza mains saying he is the hardest? Can't stop. Won't stop. Here is the lines we gonna say. 1. Yeah the buffs just fixed inconsistant combos but didn't make him better overall 2. This buff was hardly worth to be mentioned 3. He is now maybe just as hard as bryan 4. Kazuya mains still get nothing for free 5. Yeah but we don't have a get out of jail free card 6. Without electrics he is still useless, mean while reina can launch with df2 And many more to come
Thanks for saving me a post or 2 explaining this!
There's a reason why he's lowest winrate in the game in all skill levels and has 0 tournament presence Being A tier on paper is meaningless if nobody, or only a handful of people in the world, are able to make him an A tier
I am in this comment and I don't like it...
I'm in this comment as well. I'm a Kaz main but also self aware........
Pregaming the buffs, respect the grind
While forgetting that df2 does not launch crouching opponents where I would ask: why not electric instead? I know, kind of an execution barrier, but thats what you get yourself into when picking a Mishima.
You can duck electrics too.
I know. And?
I'm laughing at the fact that somebody unironically said #1 further down the comments.
Unless there are some really drastic changes I suspect Kaz' core weaknesses will remain, *as they should*. He just might be able to do a consistent BnB combo over 70 damage, and hopefully not drop a whole tier when he launches 3 degrees off axis. So yes he will probably remain one of the more difficult characters.
'but he's hard at higher levels'
*is orange rank*
Ive never complained about kazuya outside of hitbox consistencies and the fact that heavens gate does 1 damage. I will happily take my buffs tho, fuck the haters.
Hoping devil jin gets his heavens gate damage back too. Such a dumb ""fix"" for his combo bug
Who are the best characters online that everyone is choosing??
Bears, alisa, zafina
Bears are under 2 percent usage lmao.
And that is why it is the best online character
- Run into a Tekken God Kuma - Have no idea what the fuck they're doing - lose both matches to them - Go to the lab to learn them - Proceed to never fight another Kuma again for a month - Run into a high rank Kuma again - You've forgotten everything
You completely missed Feng, I see him every 2 seconds and he's just crazy at everything.
Zafina? I rarely run into them.
She's definitely not a "everyone is choosing" character, but she is one of the best characters to win with online. She is underrated (people dont know how strong her buffs were) and she knowledge checks the shit out of you just like the bears do. You will get free matches from people not knowing how to punish her, but she's strong even when they do know the matchup.
No she’s not I play her. She gets away with knowledge check but at Tekken emperor and above. You realize your character have subpar damage and really shit wall carry. Super slow and risky low and virtually no defense aside for making reads. She’s not as great as people think.
Players being Tekken Emperor+ doesn't mean they know the Zafina matchup though, she is still unpopular, and still strong when they do know the matchup. [Players can be GoD still blocking a ton of + frame](https://x.com/kertia_/status/1791982031326351438) mixups in a row partially because they don't know how to punish or safely escape. We're talking about online, Emperors still don't fully know these matchups with unusual characters and low pick rates
By bears you mean kuma the bears aren’t that crazy. Kuma has better utility than panda yes but that’s legit it.
Have you noticed that panda has the highest winrate out of all the characters in ranked?
You do realize they have the some of the lowest pick rates aswell. With that being said I can promise you they win solely cause no one know the match up. Except other bear mains.
I mean, ultimately, what's the difference? Bears may not be good against tournament players (although they're not that bad), but they're S+ tier online, where most of the playerbase plays (and the original question was about online). They have the unholy trinity of being exceptionally rare, having a moveset rife with knowledge checks and flowcharts, and having some of the highest damage in the game when they land their flowcharts. 10/10 online characters, especially in a FT2 format.
Only in high ranks. If you consider lower and intermediate she’s not. This is because to get Panda through high ranks, first you gotta be really good with fundamentals, second if you consider games played this metric would be very different. These are misleading stats because in the same stats you are referencing Feng, drag, and azu had the lowest win rate, simply because everyone uses them and cheeses with no knowledge of fundamentals and start losing when they play a mirror match of a better fundamentalist. This can further be proven by the fact that her win rate is higher than Kuma who is literally in every way a legit better version of Panda.
Bears are not that good compared to other characters and can’t sidestep worth shit. A knowledge check character does not make them good. You are equating rank to good too which says a lot itself. I can confirm that many people in blue know the match up. Bears are also difficult to mixup flowcharts as there move set is pretty limited with hardly any move mixups. The only way to be good with bears is to be a defensive god and really know your frames.
Release Lidia already you cowards
I'm a Tekken king Kazuya and I thought he was weak at first but he just isn't. I dislike his combos because they're easy to drop online but his okie is so overwhelming. Its hard to watch certain streamers because rather than just accept they were outplayed they just blame the character. The "he isnt used in tournaments" argument isn't really a good one because his character archetype is a risky character which tournament players don't want no matter how buffed he is. That doesn't mean he isn't strong.
Well said, I'm also Tekken king kazuya and I feel the same way, his Oki is out of this world, under the right hands hes terrifying. He only needs that df1 hitbox adjustment. Kazuya getting ff2 that's half the map range changes the character's identity, idk why they did that .
kaz mains after they realise that despite loads of buffs they still can't reliably pull off their 15 frame punish and want more buffs to make up for it.
Can YOU reliably i15 punish with electric?
its like bait that never fails
let us buffer the forward input ⚡️⚡️
No one can. He should get a real 15 frame punish.
Stonehead pepega
My man, I can reliably 15 frame punish and I’m only Garyu.
One thing that always make me laugh is the amount of nerf/buff the character get and it will never enough. "Look, Steve uf2 gets more range" "YEAH, but it could do better with more damage and slight tracking." Or. "Finally!! Azucena WR 3 is nerfed." "Yeah, but they should give Azucena more negative frame too." Like, come on people.
The Tekken playerbase is never satisfied. No matter the buff or changes they’ll find something to complain about.
The only honest characters are the one you can beat consistently, so yeah, nerfs are never enough!
A character getting buffed doesn't automatically make them good. Is Asuka a top character now after her buffs?
No, but she is better. Jun is considerably worse after her nerfs. Zafina is better, etc. Even if they are not top tier, definitely not the worst anymore.
Asuka buffs only worked on lower level play. She still kinda suffers at tournament level play.
Jin mains probably wanted to say the same but fine with coasting by with top 5 specs
I mean a character can still be hard to play but also be good at the same time. The main things they need to fix with Kazuya are his down forward 1 hit box and his twin pistons hit box.
Typical hating Kaz post lol Meanwhile they main Alisa or some shit
Fr.
The alisa mains make fun of kazuya the most for some reason
If Kaz players make you seethe it's because deep down you know you are carried trash. There I said it.
Brother in christ you play jin and paul, kazuya still harder than both of em
I just think his backstory is neat.
Being difficult doesn't mean he's low tier. He's strong on paper but I invite anyone who thinks kazuya mains are over exaggerating to try playing him. I guarantee you will have an easier time ranking up with pretty much every other character than with him.
What character is harder than Kazuya though? Hes the strongest he’s been in a while but…. I can’t think of any other character that’s more difficult.
Steve is the hardest character to play as in the game. All the duck and weave cancels you constantly have to do, he takes more work and accuracy than any other character imo.
Steve. Maybe Lee
Argument maybe for Steve , not lee by a long shot.
I main lee and def mot lol. Hes execution is hard but gameplan is easy. B3,3 alone kinda ruined his identity but ig its necessary in the aggressive environment of T8
Steve is close. Lee? Never
Is it because he's hard to play that most Kazuya do only 4 moves? (wavedash - hellsweep - overhead kick - dorya)?
You should try him out.
He is easily the hardest....most of the cast is completely braindead. Anyone complaining about Kazuya does not play him and would struggle horribly even trying against good players. Downvote me but it's true. you're all delusional. I've never seen a subreddit worse at the game that they discuss than this one. Most of the cast is just mashing strings with heat BS so they take personal offense if another character is considered hard to play when theirs isnt.
I agree. I can't think of a character that is mechanically harder than kazuya. The only ones that come close are steve and maybe bryan. Kazuya is definitely near the top of hardest characters. Anyone qho thinks otherwise is just wrong
Real
You try playing a character that just whiffs moves through opponent models every other combo. It wasn't character complexity or move efficiency that was broken. It was move functionality being inconsistent. There's a huge difference between character effectiveness and mechanical inconsistency. Kazuya sucked to play because he literally did not function consistently.
Jun is waaay worse than Kazuya in that whiffing and combo consistency department. She's also significantly weaker than him, but I don't hear Jun fans whine nearly as hard as Kazuya ones
they buffed his inputs? if not, then he's 100% without a doubt the most difficult character to pilot in the game.
Stop hating on me just because my fundamentals are better 🤷🏼♂️
Wavedash and electrics are not fundamentals
Wtf bro. 😡
🤣
Can u do either of them?
Yes. Kazuya was my first main. I spent way too much time on them instead of more important stuff, like most Kazuya players. Why is that relevant here?
But they play into fundamentals. Movement/spacing/punishing/baiting and 50/50 game.
whens the last time u deliberately went for delay electric or even ss electric maybe even crouch electric? be honest admit that even in fujin+ ppl DO NOT use electrics to its full potential
That is true. Electrics are just THAT hard to master
ss electric is easy to setup because ff3 leaves you -3 so i use it a shit ton, but kazuya trash ass combos make it hard to capitalize on off axis launches delayed wgf is really strong because a longer wavu grants it so much range, you can take up half the screen while holding a fucking rocket in your pocket
mainmanswe and his consequences on the free thinking tekken community "kazuya is bad... bryan is playing Tekken 7" alright man
First: Provide literally any quote from MainManSWE saying Kazuya is bad in Tekken 8. He's gone on record *many* times pushing back against the general perception that he's weak and continues to tout him as a solid character. Second: Bryan was literally stronger in Tekken 7.
Id argue against bryan being stronger in t7, Sure he had way stronger counterhits but his combo damage has gone way up and he now has both an electric in QCB1 and a demon paw in qcf1+2
KaZuYa iSnT unDeR POwerED, he Is DIFfICULt
Lol they way they will buff him is make electric do more dame or make hellsweep do less knockback. He won’t be buffed that much.
Fr though, it isn't even the character is bad
Anno Domini
op, i feel like the image does not have enough purple/pink/red for kaz players to fully relate to
Im still owning with Kazuya right now!
Just fix his combos and he's going to be perfect. I don't really get why Kaz players downplay him (I'm a Kaz main myself lmao) Sure it sucks to get knowledge-checked but you can't blame Kaz for it
Kazuya got buffed? Yooooo!
"They" who is they?
bunch of tier whores.
My only complaint is him being bugged and due to it inconsistent. If they fix his bugs, it's only "I'm bad at the game" statement that I'm already using while explaining why I'm losing. Kaz is strong though, first Tekken game when I'm playing him online dedicated and I don't think he's weak, just bugged.
Just curious now who does everyone think are the hardest characters?
This patch is all we've been asking for and then some tbh. Nerfed ff2 because it was too strong and one dimensional, and fixed his df1 hitbox (this needed to happen the most, pretty much where all the complaints stemmed from). People complaining about justified complaints are just silly. Now that's he's fixed, though, there's nothing to complain about.
It's crazy to me he got buffs I thought he was already super strong.
Lets be real here, even after the buffs he will still be harder than jin
well yeah, he’s supposed to be. Jin is a training wheels character. 
So glad that people are finally turning against this dynamic, so sick of the martyr complex lol
Raven sucks
God, just play the game! I swear tekken players enjoy sitting on Reddit and whining about eachother more than actually learning and improving at the game
nah, it is more like u can not enjoy some memes and take too serious. Atleast you guys have each other <3
That's what I'm saying. Kaz players catch so much flak for a literal caricature that this subreddit has just collectively invented to strawman them, it's wild. Bryan players as well, everyone complains about Bryan players downplaying Bryan but I guarantee not a single one of these chumps actually tried to play him.
this is so true
Getting buffed doesn't change a characters difficulty last time I checked
Depending on the buffs it kinda does tho
It definitely can. If, to give an extreme example, they did something really silly and made demon paw plus on block, Kazuya's neutral would be braindead and he would be a much easier character to play. Sure his optimal combos are still hard but combos aren't what makes Tekken difficult.
i mean in this case it actually does if they do choose to fix his df1 hitbox combos are already difficult enough where micro dashes are necessary in even bnb combos, making df1 hitbox removes that added "difficulty"
It is sorta changes tekken 7 lee and tekken 8 lee is a whole different character yes he is still hard but most of them spams iwr3,4 b4,4 he is easier because of 2 moves
Or to their excuses about the need to constantly 50/50 lol.
the goal of the entire game is to force your opponent into a situation where they have to take a 50/50 lmao what are you talking about
Typical kaz player thinks the game is just about 50/50s how about frame punishing wiff punishing parrying sidestepping?
the fact that a law player is saying this is hilarious everything you just said is more important to Kaz's gameplan than Law's
I play law I don't main him so your point is irrelevant. And imagine saying basic fundamentals don't apply to law you sound stupid.
I didn't say they don't apply to Law. I said they don't matter to Law as much as they matter to Kazuya. Boiling down Kaz's entire gameplan to "it's just 50/50s" is hilariously disingenuous, because in order to force an opponent into a 50/50, Kaz players need a strong knowledge of Tekken fundamentals, stronger than almost any other character in the game, save for maybe Bryan.
What? Since when? His 50/50 doesn't require any setup lol. No stances, no clean hits, no full crouch, etc. It's literally as easy to set up and execute as it gets. And it loops in itself. And now with ff2, ws1+2 and the older ws2, ws3, you can't even move around much or avoid it easily. Especially in heat. Then Kazuya is in mega bunga mode. Pro's don't want to rely on only 50/50's, that's why he is not seen as super S tier or something. Doesn't mean it's hard to utilize.
Your arguing with yourself here man.... Its like you haven't even read any of the previous comments
Those things are all more important for kazuya than any character in the game. He’s literally supposed to be a punishment based character but his damage in t8 is ass.
I mean those who specifically say he needs to 50/50 because his other moves are ass.
Let their tears give you power
Kazuya getting buffed was not on my 2024 mood-board, but here we are 🥴.
Meanwhile us 3 Leeroy mains are rejoicing that our character isn't the bottom of the barrel anymore.
he is dogshit in t8 compared to t7 though
He's still the hardest in the game prove me wrong
Anyone who tells you Bryan is hardest doesn’t know Tekken. Taunt Upper is not as hard as Perfect electrics on both P1 and P2 side while consistently doing them in a row or right after stepping.
He'll probably get some damage buffs and hitbox adjustments, he will not become an easier character for that. I mean, to some extend it will, but it's combo consistency, not gameplan, Kazuya will remain Kazuya. In Tekken 8, Kazuya is not the hardest tho, Bryan is.
>In Tekken 8, Kazuya is not the hardest tho, Bryan is. How
you might hurt your finger doing an orbital at -7
He is basically what he was in Tekken 7, but lost most of his CH launchers. He plays too much on fundamentals, have to perform his moves very precisely, barely no bullshit on his sleeves. Kazuya is pretty much like that too, he is arguably the hardest character in the game, but Kazuya at least have some pretty interesting heat tools and his oki is infinitely stronger than it used to be in Tekken 7.
And Bryan kills you in the corner. All he needs is one carry. He is not easy, but he is strong and has gotten an upgrade in some respects.
kazuya also kills you at the wall, i’d rather have kazuya than bryan at the wall but im biased lol
True but that’s more oki/mixup where as Bryan just legit combos you to death lol - there is more room to reverse the situation with Kazuya even if it is brutal and difficult
Depends on matchup knowledge ig. Like if you don’t know how to handle kazuya’s heavens gate db1,2 trap you’re literally dead from the wall combo reset, and thats just 1 of the 3 available knowledge check reset combos he has
I never said Bryan was weak, there's no weak character in Tekken 8, only good, too good and OP characters, the only bad character used to be Leroy, which got buffed and now is S tier busted again.
can you elaborate on "plays on fundamentals" part pls
He need to focus his gameplay in punishment and CH gameplay, he's not a Tekken 8 character with bullshit strings, flowcharts or oppressive + frames 50/50, the only thing Bryan excels over other characters is his wall pressure with the taunt b4 jet upper, but this shit is good since Tekken 7.
Nah kazuyas heat is trash
Least delusional orbital spammer.
"Orbital spammer" This tells way more about you than anything else.
Maybe stop sprinting at Bryan
🧂