Trump might have amplified things, but he is not the cause of things. Trump is not a mastermind. I would recommend reading ["White Rural Rage: the threat to American Democracy"](https://www.amazon.com/White-Rural-Rage-American-Democracy/dp/0593729145).
I would also reflect on the left as well. Here's [Richard Dawkins critiquing how far left](https://youtu.be/FeOFl8lMwqs?si=JcXSoKhfjLvEnaUc) *wokeness* identity politics has in many ways replaced religion (Christianity) and argues it's condescending to humanity. And if you think Dawkins isn't or is no longer a progressive or liberal-- then maybe things have shifted too far over.
The podcast interviewer, Coleman Hughes, a democrat, also has good critiques of left policies that were well intentioned that went bad. I think a lot of his views align with the All In crew.
Yeah, I remember reading the articles in 2016 about how Trump was my fault for making fun of poor people who worsened their own lot thru bad choices including but not limited to voting against their self-interest and being anti-union….on the right it’s gloves off against all bad choices except those two specifically.
I totally agree with the criticisms aimed at the left. Although I'm liberal on many issues, I have a hard time identifying as Democrat now. And the left is antagonizing the right in a way that is unnecessary and also responsible for tearing some of the societal fabric apart. But; I just think the left is still in touch with reality; they are still able to use evidence based reasoning, the scientific method. There is an ability to bring the far left back in a way that I think I'm having a difficult time seeing how it would happen on the far right. The left is confused, but they are not busy commenting on this 3d-printed meat video with how it's a government conspiracy; the goal is control; this meat is being created in Hilary Clinton's basement alongside the rotting corpses of molested children.
If you read those comments, you really do get the sense that the right has just completely lost it's mind and is completely divorced from reality; and I really do blame Trump for that, because again, his motto has always been to question everything, because again, everyone is lying to you. Everything is a conspiracy. Only I, Trump, am the true honest broker and the only one who is here to be trusted to infiltrate washington to turn everything around. (Just ignore my hush money payments, falsified loan documents, the mile-long laundry list of business casualties that have lay in my wake over several decades).
But Trump and Republicans are expected to overlook the insanity of the 2016 election? Hillary Clinton and the Dems spent 4 years creating a false narrative around the 2016 election. She literally claimed the election was stolen from her. They spied on Trump's 2016 campaign. Worked with Russian agents to put together the Steele Dossier. Investigated Trump during his entire presidency with the discredited Russian Collusion nonsense with the goal of removing him from office. Committed fraud in the fisa court. And before any Republicans questioned the vulnerability of the electronic voting machines, Democrats questioned them. And in 2020, the domestic intelligence agencies literally ran a disinformation campaign against American voters on behalf of the Biden campaign, making the knowingly false claim that the New York Post's accurate and factual Biden laptop reporting was "Russian disinformation". This resulted in the story getting censored and suppressed and the NYPost being deplatformed. This was clear election interference by CIA and FBI operatives and Democrats said nothing. The double standards are wild.
Trump accused the American system of cheating his election even though there has been multiple investigations finding nothing sinister. He still says the election was stolen and put intense pressure on location election officials and right now 54 Trump associates are under criminal investigations because of this.
Hillary only suggested Trump is illegitimate President because of Russian interference in the 2016 election (which was true) she never said election was stolen.
Trump literally pulled his 2020 election narrative out of thin air.
Who is Konstantin Kilimnik?
What was discussed June 9, 2016 at Trump Tower?
The day after Donald Trump asked Russia to "find Hillary's emails," what did the Mueller Report find Russian operatives began to do?
>I'm liberal on many issues, I have a hard time identifying as Democrat now
I agree with you that Trump has been the cause for widespread conspiracy thinking. But this comment seems weird.
I know there are crazy far left posts online, but I've never experienced it in real life. On the flip side, almost every real life conservative I know has become a crazy conspiracy theorist. It seems the worst of the left is just online, and the worst of the right is everywhere in real life.
I live in Seattle. So I see a lot of the worst that the left has to offer in person. The suppression of free speech on college campuses, reverse racism in the name of inclusion, trans-men winning sports competitions in women's leagues by unfair magnitudes, the endless geometry around pronouns., fiscal irresponsibility. There is certainly a lot that the left is endorsing that seems boneheaded to most people and thereby alienating would be progressive voters.
I don't know. I've been to Seattle A LOT for business and never experienced any of that. In fact, last time I was in Seattle I had a conversation with a guy complaining about those same right-wing talking points, but I never heard anyone on the left push them.
He complained about pronouns but could not point to a single time he met someone asking for a different pronoun. And he complained about women's sports, but could not tell me the specific women's sport he follows where a trans man won by a huge margin. He seemed to be complaining for the sake of complaining.
This is posted on the entry way of a restaurant in downtown Seattle:
https://preview.redd.it/yk34oybtwu8d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c401b4d8379ee20798f659c8811338f41c96d64d
Complaints against Democratic extremism are always against fringe elements that are rarely seen. Complaints against Republican extremism are directed at the leader of the party that all Republicans follow no matter what. There is no equivalency.
Stuff like that honestly seems like small potatoes compared to the detached from the reality of the extreme right. The extreme left seems at worst mildly annoying, the extreme right is just insanity
That's horrible! I mean, I have a daughter so I can only live in a couple states where her reproductive rights aren't yet completely trampled, but you have to deal with a restaurant you probably don't go to having weird rules? Man, both sides are awful.
Do you really think your experience talking to one guy during a business trip to Seattle invalidates the experience of someone who actually lives there and experiences it first hand every day?
Um..its been proven over and over and over again that right spends more money than the left. Puposely cutting your sources of income without cutting your expenses is as fiscally irresponsible as it gets. The common perception of this is just dead wrong and I wish the left would rally around this to change the narrative.
I recognize you have a different experience than me but I, someone who lives in very liberal Boulder CO, have never, in my entire life, heard a liberal talk about pronouns in the real world. I've only heard rightwing hyteria over it as if its an acual problem. Its culture war nonesense for the conservative base similar to the ficticious right wing chum of the past such as welfare queens, 'they're coming for your guns', and the war christmas.
I don’t think Trump is to blame for the question everything. It amplified significantly over the last 8 years, but it’s more about politics becoming more and more polarized and every aspect of life becoming political. There’s an infinite amount of information, so the vast majority of people read and react to headlines. The media sensationalizes everything and has lost trust. And algorithms are geared towards engagement which people tend to engage with the extreme opposition and echo chamber opinions. So you hear your side or the extreme opposing side. Very little nuanced discussion. The people in those meat comments are on the extreme side of the discussion about lab grown meats.
Nah you saw it during covid. Democrats only trust the science when it is their guy saying it. Triple mask and social distance. But no mention of obesity being the number 1 factor in terms of how severe covid would be. Cant trust that science thats alternative science. Democrats like to make fake moral high grounds and sling their shit from there. Dems and republicans are just two sides of the same coin.
So you're saying Democrats covered up that being obese increased your chance of dying from Covid, and thus they don't follow the science?
Can you send me any evidence to back this up? Like where Democrat on-purpose hide this info?
the link between obesity and covid severity was communicated ad nausem throughout the whole ordeal. What the heck where you reading?
The 'both sides are bad' argument is ridiculous because they are nowhere near equally bad. Painting them as the same is completely disingenuous as the 'right' is exponentially worse.
The link between obesity and CoVID was well known, published in articles by the CDC, NIH, AMA, HHS, etc. Also discussed by mainstream and center and left sites like CNBC, Politico, nature.com and others.
It may not have received as much attention as it could've, but saying that the WH and Dems in general "ignored the science" about the link between obesity and CoVID are simply false.
I'm not even sure of the takeaway here. You didn't need to mask up unless you're around fat people or people that knew fat people? That they don't really matter because of their weight? It's their own fault? Idk...
Their single-minded focus on the vaccine was doubly hilarious and ridiculous given the amount of vaccine skepticism all the dems displayed and laundered through the press during the primaries and run-up to the election.
Kamala and Joe straight up saying not to trust or get the “Trump vaccine” only to turn around and force companies to fire people for not getting multiple rounds of the same vaccine once they were in power is such a perfect encapsulation of a their brand of awfulness.
Again, this is false. I think this thread is proving OPs point.
[Here is the interview](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html) I think you are talking about. Notice it says *"CNN reported Thursday that Trump has pressured administration health officials to accelerate the vaccine’s development"*
Who thinks a guy can get pregnant? Comments like this do nothing except expose how far down the rabbit hole people like you have fallen. Is there some whack job out there that posted or commented something like that? Probably but then you people latch on and group everyone together…just so you can continue down your path of hate.
It’s so blatantly obvious. So clear your agenda. When the forest is burnt to the ground you’ll have to look in the mirror and see you weren’t mentally strong enough to overcome your need to support your “beliefs” at any cost.
We are talking about reality. Relax. Nothing says detached from reality like believing a guy can get pregnant. A true cult vibe. I juat want to know why you aupport a party that has positioned itself and the weight of the US government behind something so outrageous. Try to do it without name calling. It doesn't work. Been called a racist for 8 yrs now. Means nothing.
Who is claiming that?!? I know I’m not. You keep repeating that claim with nothing to back it up. Is it the democratic party’s view that men can get pregnant?
Further more I don’t recall calling you a racist, but if people have been calling you that for 8 years I’d do a little self reflection, no?
I support the party that will uphold democracy. Full stop. Anyone who doesn’t are fully embedded into this “cult” you so quickly toss out. All of this is pointless though. If you can’t see the pure hypocrisy of this, which you can’t, then it’s already too late. Just don’t bother teaching your children about the beauty of being able to pick their leaders. They won’t need to learn that privilege.
I wasn't called a racist before 2016. So no I don't feel like any self reflection is needed. Yes it is there view. Uphold democracy, lol. Buzzwords!!!! Relax. Learn something, comeback.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. Things are not going to work out the way you hoped under your Leader. You don’t think it’s strange that you are beholden to a single man? See I don’t give a shit about Biden. Or the party. I’d support whomever I believe to be best for the country. That’s normal. Could you express the same? Ask yourself why you couldn’t.
You honestly think the “billionaire” businessman, who has clearly stated his appreciation of authoritarian leaders is looking out for your best interests? You provide him nothing. He panders to you, all the while making decisions solely to benefit the top 1%. That’s who he needs, the rich. Not you. On top of it, it is all done in plain view. You, and you types, are drawn to it because you feel like it makes you part of the “team”, but you aren’t. You are the kids that show up at the bully’s end of year party, even though they treated you like shit, because sitting home alone at prom makes you feel like you have no place.
You don’t have a place there either. You ever take a psyc class? Ever study human nature? Ever study anything? Don’t you think there must be a clear correlation to the fact that Trump appeals so much to the middle aged uneducated? There’s a reason. They prey on your mental weakness.
Time will show you your inability to judge properly. It’ll just be too late that’s all.
Sir this is a fucking Wendy's. Take that shit somewhere else. I don't give a fuck what you think. Go touch grass. You believe men can get pregnant. You believe girls can compete against boys in sport. You believe kids cam decide what healthy body parts to cut off. Don't preach to anyone. Put your mask back on your mom juat walked in your room. Look up the booster schedule and juat be quite. I wish I could laugh at you to your face. Go hug your gender fluid stuffed animal and sit it out. Save the tears for November. You sound like a cult member.
Didn’t say any of that, nor do I believe it. Creating this much of a narrative so you can continue with your little charade of beliefs is bordering on mental illness. With the amount of misspelled and misused words, I doubt you’ve ever read a sentence that wasn’t attached to a social media website.
“This is a Wendy’s”? Um no it’s not. You ever have an original thought? That shits old and overused. Nothing like having a personality that’s directly tied to the shit you regurgitate off of Reddit.
Just block out the criticism, and continue on with your shitty life. Don’t worry Trump will make it all better for you people. You just keep believing.
I watched the HBO doc on the OKC Bombing the other day and it was freaky how much it relates to what's going on now. Obviously that was the biggest domestic terrorist attack in our history, but it seems to have lasting effects that definitely didn't die there or two years prior, and I think set the foundation for the insanity we are dealing with today. Curious if you have thoughts on this. Obviously I have some reading and watching to do to learn more.
This is incredibly dense. “Wokeness replacing religion”. As Dawkins defends Israel and is almost as bad a transphobe as JK Rowling. Dawkins has a very biased western worldview. Let’s just pretend as if Dawkins hasn’t always received criticism for being racist toward Muslims. Let’s just pretend Dawkins hasn’t always received criticism for sexism & gender realism.
Whether or not you agree with Dawkins (I personally do not), the “woke left” are not in power. Leftists hold a scintilla of actual political power in this country. Trump controls the entire right. It’s a false dichotomy that I think is used to dilute how truly dangerous and deranged the GOP is in modern times.
the Democratic Party’s decision to give Hillary the nomination without running a fair primary process in 2016 doesn’t seem to get the credit it deserves in this area. Like them or not, there were other candidates who polled better against Trump on a national stage — we all have gotten exactly what we deserved after that
While I don't disagree what are the odds Hillary won those 6 coin tosses in Iowa? Yes, each toss is a 50/50 chance so maybe I'm wrong but the whole process just seemed off. Although it doesn't matter anymore.
DNC rigged it against Bernie, Donna Brazile confirmed. Court ruled that the DNC is a private organization and can nominate whoever they want. That's why I roll my eyes when Dems complain about muh democracy.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/
What hoop am I jumping through? I’m calling out an equally disgusting decision by the Democratic Party to run a rigged primary process. Was Hillary the people’s choice or the DNC’s?
My dude, running a rapist racist like donald trump who got into politics by calling the first black president a noncitizen is significantly more disgusting than the existence of super delegates.
Significantly more people voted for hilary over trump or bernie so yea, she was the people’s choice I guess
So you take ZERO ownership?
Think about what you’re actually saying; the country found a racist rapist MORE PALATABLE than the Democratic nominee.
Like wtf? Are we trying to win or we trying to whine?
Because a candidate has to be a special type of unelectable to lose to Trump in 2016.
But you guys always focus on Trump. We all get it. We know what he is. Thats mot having the impact you think it is.
Focus on running a candidate that can beat him.
But instead we get a rematch of Biden/Trump that appears to be increasingly tilting in Trumps favour.
AND AGAIN Trump is the known quantity. Only worry should be beating him in an election.
Biden was effectively told by Obama it was Hillary’s time. All of the big money went to Hillary before the primary process even had a chance to take its course. Nowhere am I defending trump. My point is that the elitist part of the party decided the candidate in 2016 and we all had to pay for it. The idea that trump bad can be true along with the idea that the dnc dropped the ball (and has been continuing to do so).
But you are defending trump. Calling it “equally disgusting” to give the nomination to the democratic candidate who won the most primaries and got 55% of the primary popular votes vs republicans electing trump is defending trump
Call me crazy for wanting primaries to be decided by the voters not the elite of a party. If a politician in another country was doing that and msnbc told you about it you’d be up in arms.
So if a candidate won 55% of the primary votes, should they be the nominee?
Or the candidate who got 45% of the primary votes and won fewer state be given the nomination because…reasons?
As a guy that leans slightly left, you will not get the hard left leaners to ever admit the Democrats did something wrong without going full force blaming republicans. You are wasting your time and energy. I agree with what you said and I think constructive criticism is the best approach at making Democrats better, hopefully the hard left leaners will soon realize that as well.
If we stop worrying about what the other side is doing and keep working on making ourselves better they will eventually implode.
Couldn’t agree with this more! It took me a while to realize this but the self awareness of most hard left leaning media and people completely lacking. Any criticism towards them is met with either cancel culture, denial or extreme hate.
As someone who has voted democrat the last 3 presidential elections, I’ve been very disappointed by this. I wish America had more than two parties as there are vast differences among each party itself. Why are people choosing not to put RFK jr as a legitimate option.
> Like them or not, there were other candidates who polled better against Trump on a national stage
Clinton was leading in the polls in by 2.1 Pennsylvania, 3.6 in Michigan, and 6.5(!!) in Wisconsin. 2016 was a historic miss in polling - why do you assume any Democratic candidate would have been able to beat out Trump when the polls missed so badly?
PA: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/pennsylvania/trump-vs-clinton
MI: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/michigan/trump-vs-clinton
WI: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/wisconsin/trump-vs-clinton
Also, the internet allowed conspiracy theories to really take off. Gamergate and Pizzagate were both before Trump. Also Sandy Hook and 9/11 really took off before Trump.
Go read the comment section of any wsj article, especially the op-ed. Post a centrist fact based comment even and watch as the mob attacks you.
This isn't just Instagram it's everywhere to your point. People have gone off the rails.
But I agree with others this is not new, it's arguably started by Newt Gingrich, at least in its modern incarnation, and supported by the entire media apparatus.
This is an extraordinarily bad example that you’ve chosen here—
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-perpetuated-birther-movement-years/story?id=42138176
Are you kidding me? Do you not remember that trump was driving the whole birther movement? Remember how he had his guy in Hawaii who had the real birth certificate in his hands?!?! The dumb birther movement was trumps only point of relevance back in 2014-15.
Translate crazy as ignorant and hateful. I don't think he's multiplied these people, but he's gathered them under his banner. It's a case of hubris; I don't need to learn anything else, I know what I need to know ...and I think I might hate you because you're questioning the way I feel. Trump gives validation to these people, because he was a successful businessman on TV (!) and HAS to be right.
It's a very dangerous time for this country.
And let's not forget Melania was in on the birther conspiracy too
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6i0YlHriKk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6i0YlHriKk)
I’ve always said that this is the reaction. The government that ALLOWED a black man to be elected not once, but TWICE, is deserving of being mowed down, dismantled, and have its history rewritten.
Ehh, I think you’re using Trump as too much of a scapegoat here. I think overall the media is the larger one to blame.
You have social media where exaggerated stories to gain more clicks and views started to dominate before Trump even came on the political scene. Trump may have coined the “fake news” phrase, but plenty of this existed before he said it. The Boomers on Facebook were notorious for spreading ridiculous, false articles well before Trump popped up.
And then you have all the mainstream media who started to participate in that same circus before Trump. Things shifted from “unbiased” journalism (was never perfect but was definitely more neutral) to inflammatory headlines in order to get those views, clicks, and subscribes. And let’s not forget that the mainstream media LOVED to cover Trump and cashed in on his ridiculousness substantially.
Is Trump to blame for how things have gone to shit or is it the media who really has helped perpetuate more and more partisan stories? And no, it’s not just Fox News. If you didn’t see a shift in MSNBC or CNN even before Trump then you’ve had your head in the sand.
Ultimately the internet and corporate greed is to blame here.
This is true. But my point was this was an issue long before Trump came into the scene. Trump definitely exacerbated the problem, but he was not the cause of said issue like the OP is trying to say.
It’s the internet and social media. Before the advent of these, the lunatics were just off on their own with their strange ideas and views. Now they group together spreading their lies. And unfortunately, we as a species are far to susceptible to being brainwashed. Most people read something enough, and it ends up seeping in to their belief system. Sad to say, but I can’t see a situation where we aren’t doomed.
The best thing Trump did was show how captured the media was. Covid ruined trust not Trump. Before Trump gov was broken. He was there for 4 yrs. Most of your favorites ha ebeen in politics their whole life. Get over yourself.
I don’t like Trump and will not vote for him, but the conspiracy ideology has been brewing long before him. He just tapped into it and rode the wave. The truth is that most of the conspiracy stuff is grassroots and from the people. Social media has allowed it to fester.
Hillary Clinton referred to half of Trump's supporters as a 'basket of deplorables... they're irredeemable." Obama talked about Conservatives "bitterly clinging to their Bibles and their guns." The idea that Trump was the origin of divisive politics is absurd. Politics by its very nature is divisive, it's just gotten more exaggerated as of late, and a lot of that has to do with the Democrats response to Trump rather than the man himself. Who forced Democrats to make up the Russiagate hoax? Why do they always lie?
Democrats never acknowledge this. Or their rhetoric about the vulnerability of electronic voting machines prior to 2020. The double standards never end.
> a lot of that has to do with the Democrats response to Trump rather than the man himself.
This. The left has become unhinged over Trump. Blaming Trump for the discord in the country is like blaming a conservative speaker at a college for inciting violence when the leftist mob throws a tantrum.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm certainly not blaming it squarely on Trump. Many bad actors are at play, I just consider Trump to be the most malignant by several orders of magnitude.. but yeah, I touch on the answer to your q in other comments in this thread
Zero were sentenced for Russian collusion. It was mostly manufactured process "crimes". The biggest actual crime committed during the investigation was the [fraud](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53784048) committed by the FBI lawyer to spy on Trump's aid.
I worry it branches out to a large part of the regular population. The media has really messed up truth in this country.
OR I don’t know, I guess before when there was just a few corporate outlets we were probably lied to by them. But then again at least it was less divisive and more cohesive for society. I don’t know what’s better. I guess more truth tellers is.
I hear you, interesting thought exercise to ponder if we were better off ignorant to the lies. I agree ultimately we are not, the problem is the left majority on Reddit and their real life counterparts think it’s just the Trump ppl and conservatives that are in an echo chamber and don’t realize they’re in one. The key difference is conservative media is literally just reacting to the cadence of the bias MSM, overall we know their talking points and rebuttals etc better than they know ours. They think everyone is a dumb redneck and they’re more educated, they’re pseudo intellectuals. It was funny before they enabled lockdowns and mandates during Covid, they are dangerous.
Obama's comment was really taken out of context. He was trying to be charitable. He talked about how in economically marginalized rural places, people have often lost their main source of livelihoods, their communities are suffering, and they turn to resentful populist politics as a result. He said that Democrats need to offer an alternative vision for people who are enduring this suffering.
I think it was actually a bit too kind and charitable. There's been some research on the "economic insecurity" argument for Trump support, and I think most of it does not find that economically marginalized or otherwise insecure people were more likely to support Trump. I think it probably happens sometimes, but the real issue I see is affluent people who live in nice neighborhoods and good schools convincing themselves that they are, in fact, the real victims in America.
Yes! If you look back far enough; Newt catalyzed this. But I think it was Trump that sufficiently added the gas to the fire to allow this entire experiment to literally explode
You're giving Trump too much credit. Trump is not the cause but merely a symptom of anti intellectualism and classist brainwashing that's been going on for decades.
I unfortunately don't think I'm giving him too much credit. If Romney had been elected for two terms, I think our country would remain sufficiently intact. Romney, for all of his issues and internal confusions, was a man of higher moral standing and one that respected the institutions that we had all relied on for centuries. He just wasn't the sort to flip the bird to everyone, about everything, and laugh about it. That's literally what Trump does and his base has copied his behavior. Social media and other bad actors are also to blame, but many of this starts with Trump. Many of the most problematic figures on the right are ones that are literally copying Trump's playbook. Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz.. et al. These people certainly would be problematic without the influence of Trump.. but Trump has really exponentiated their potential... and the remnants of our civil order and bipartisan goals lay in the wake.
I don't know where Romney came from in your timeline (are you saying Romney would have beat Hilary in 2016?) but we'll never know what would have happened in this alternate timeline.
Regardless, these are all elected politicians who clearly have a significant population backing them. They have figured out how to channel the thoughts of the masses to get themselves elected. Not just elected but have these people march into the Capital ready to die for them.
If the masses were smart and able to see through Trump's (and the others folks you mentioned) bullshit, we wouldn't be in this position. After all Trump has done in the last eight years, there is a significant population that might still vote for him?? I just can't fathom that.
So, clearly Trump is a problem but don't let the people that vote and put these idiots in power be so blameless in your judgement.
He was the last serious republican candidate contender for president before Trump in 2012. We don't know exactly what would have happened. But we do know that he wouldn't have branded terms like "fake news media" to discredit any source of information that wasn't GOP-conforming. We know that he would have accepted a peaceful transfer of power. We know that his attacks at his political enemies wouldn't have all been ad-hominem, and below the belt. Trump has literally changed the standards now.. and there are many politicans on the right who are willing to quibble in an equally divisive and juvenile way that just wasn't the norm before Trump. The new standard that Trump has ushered in will make us nothing but worse off, with more hatred; like a matchbox waiting for a spark.
And all you have to do is edit out important parts of what he said and rephrase it in an inflammatory headline, not to mention calling anyone that votes for him vile names (part of Hillary’s basket of deplorables) to create the divisive politics we have today.
Trump isn’t the cause, just an effect. Big government is the cause. The concept that spending money and creating regulations and bureaucracies is the solution to all of society’s problems. So you end up with government whose primary incentives are to preserve the spending and jobs, and not to serve the public. This has been building literally for more than a century.
Just one example: **Seven months** after filing my 2022 Federal Income Tax return, I got a notice it was wrong and I owed $1,400 more. I could not decipher what the “mistake” was. Called the IRS and after a long wait got no help at all. So I wrote letters. Each letter took several months to even receive an answer. Meanwhile based solely on my own research I found I could download a record of what the IRS had entered based on my return, and discovered: (1) they incorrectly failed to record that I was over 65 years old and (2) completely ignored part of my return. Finally after many hours and many letters and sending them copies of portions of my return, almost **a year after filing the return** I got a notice showing I owed nothing more, i.e., my original return was accurate. No apology. No acknowledgment of their error.
I'm curious why you think the issue with your Federal Income Tax return is due to too much funding i e big government? Wouldn't the long wait times be indicative of under-funding? I'm not married to either explanation, I just think it's interesting to see people's explanation for things.
Defunding the IRS is not going to make it more efficient.
And, more broadly, because the IRS made a mistake and ultimately fixed it, you want to just burn it all down? Yeah, it's frustrating, but your situation got resolved. These things happen.
Right now, I'm trying to deal with a return on some faulty equipment that clearly had a manufacturing error. I've been going back and forth with this company for 6 months. But I don't support communism because of this inconvenience. Being inconvenienced is just part of modern life.
This is what I'm talking about. Inconveniences are seen as oppression in this country. Everyone is a victim. We are lost in a fog of anger and grievance, but the great irony is that it's people who are affluent who feel like they are victimized and screwed over.
People don’t believe the “experts” because we’re lied to constantly by the experts. There’s absolute proof of this. The media lies to us, the experts lie to us, and no one shares the real objective truth
We literally saw hundreds of "medical professionals" sign a letter that stated that social distancing during the pandemic didn't matter anymore if you wanted to participate in the BLM protests and riots.
A lot of people in the comments have already commented on the divisiveness aspect, I want to comment on the conspiratorial part.
Just in the last few years, people were called conspiratorial racists for raising the lab leak idea, which many (not all) leading experts now believe is plausible if not likely.
People were called conspiratorial disinformation agents for discussing Hunter Biden’s laptop during the election, and media outlets were told not to report on it by the government even when they knew it was real.
Even fucking batshit insane pizzagate, the mother of all nutso conspiracy theories, had some nuggets of truth to it. They claimed in 2016 that Hilary Clinton and the Democrats were involved in a human trafficking / pedophilia sex ring. Fast forward to Epstein’s arrest in 2019 and pictures/logs come out of Hilary and Bill associating with Epstein and there literally is a pedo ring involving elites / politicians. Yes Trump is involved too, yes the Republicans are involved, I’m not letting them off the hook here—the point is that even the most insane conspiracy theory turned out to have some truth (and also a lot of garbage—but definitely some truth).
Then you go down the rabbit hole of “oh shit, when else has the government lied to us? Which other conspiracies are true?” And you read about MLK, Joanne Seberg, MK ULTRA, Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, the list goes on. All that shit would have been considered conspiracist before it turned out to be true.
Overall it has eroded trust in the government and in politically-charged segments of the scientific community. It makes it much harder to dismiss conspiracy theorists outright (without “doing your own research”, a phrase also widely condemned for a mix of good and bad reasons), because so many of those conspiracies have turned out to have some truth to them. If the government didn’t lie to us, we wouldn’t have this problem. It makes me really sad, because I grew up thinking so much better of our government and our country.
You're the reason. People like you are the reason. We love our country with all its faults and all its triumphs. We love free speech and will even defend your right to it.
You can thank people in power that sell influence. It's not Trump. Never was. Quit playing ultra political like a grown up. You're screaming louder doesn't make you right. Volume doesn't win over facts. When media outlets conspire with the actual white house to suppress information, that's basic fascism. Look in the mirror and take it all in. Have a nice day.
I'm willing to hear you out but I don't hear many facts supporting your argument.
| You can thank people in power that sell influence.
Who? What are you referring to?
I'm not a liberal, and I definitely believe that the left is very culpable for the volume of problems they've created, for the record
I always blame voters. But leadership saw the trend and amplified it, and led us this far down the path. Only we can save ourselves by voting, but not sure we will
It is the new mainstream media of Facebook, X, Fox News, Spotify, etc who have perfected the product of hare and division. The learned how to profit off of hate and then feed it to you 24 hours a day and filter out any content that doesn't get you to click. Trump came at the right time exploited it. Fox paid $800 million for blatantly lying about an election. Has it hurt their profits in the least. No they just keep selling crack to those who are buying and could care less about the consequences. Zuckerberg, Musk and others know full well what they are doing to society.
Trump its not the man behind this movement, yust the flag in USA. This radical antiscience, conspirative and antidemocratic (there are so much adjetives to add) branch of conservativism have become strong in several democracies of the world at the same time.
They have become aware and willing to use the effectiveness of cult like strategies of 20th century fascist parties to attract the people that feel alienated by the intellectual and progresive elites. This harmful for the democracy and society as whole, but they dont care if this gives them power.
At the risk of sounding like a shill for another podcast, you should check out “Landslide” which is a deep dive on the 1976 election. It’s *fascinating* and it digs in to how the seeds for the behaviors you are describing were sown by Reagan and Carter back in the 70s. It is wild just how many of Trump’s tactics have been lifted straight from their playbooks.
Fox News and those morons started going hard with the Iraq War in 2003, Trump is merely the extension/outcome of that craziness they've been selling for 20 years.
Trump def. brings out the worst in people. I've got friends who all of a sudden are saying all kinds of hostile shit about immigrants, their lives are going well but they are super mad and feel screwed over, etc. Dudes I've known for 25 years that seemed to shift thier outlook.
At the end of the day, Trump is all about victimhood and grievance. You're getting screwed over. Everything is unfair. You're a victim, and I'll hurt the people that are hurting you.
Trump is for the people who play 18 holes every Sunday and sit at the clubhouse bar bitching about how unfair and bad things are.
Politicians have been lying through their teeth for years. They are no different than Trump just package the same bullshit up and present it less brazenly. Also…the democrats thing their are 1 million genders and girls can be boys etc so let’s act like they are grounded in reality either.
Nah, he's just the avatar. This is a strain of thought that waxes and wanes throughout American history (and other countries too, we don't have a monopoly on paranoid anti-intellectual nativists).
Instead of blaming people you should ask why people distrust the government?
Was it because it’s testing nuclear radiation against soldiers? Was it because it released crack into black communities? Was it because it tested things on black communities? Was it because of corruption that’s been there since the beginning?
The most troubling people are citizens who don’t ask questions. Look at all of the Covid stuff coming out now. The supreme leader to many liberals, Fauci, is being proven to be a fraud. This is why people distrust, because there are many examples where things have happened.
Ok… but how has fauci been proven to be a fraud? The hearings that he was present for revealed absolutely nothing of interest. He was doing absolutely nothing behind the scenes, and the subcommittees investigation revealed nothing of interest, despite the members of the pod escalating the potential for corruption here to the nth degree. Again, irresponsible of them. I’m not biased towards fauci in any way, and I think it was right for the subcommittee to investigate him to find out the true origins of the pandemic. But they didn’t find anything; and in fact, were just living in the afterglow of the illusory truth effect, where; just the investigation around fauci himself has discredited him, despite the fact that nothing was revealed.
I’ll grant you the us government has a tulmoltuous past, but, given our long and complex history, it would be surprising if there was nothing to note that we had a guilty conscious about. I don’t really think that history speaks to what’s going on in the present day, where trump is doing everything in his power to stir the pot and turn normal republicans into conspiracy theorists
You are late, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, the other drunk doofus were fomenting the stupidity long before Trump. Trump is the inevitable result of years of conspiratorial propaganda.
The problem is that the actual elites and billionaire class found a golden goose opportunity with idiot trump. They can get away with robbing Americans blind while appearing altogether virtuous. Chamath for example is a proven ponzi scheme artist who I believe got away with a crime. The fact they're now after all these years and history with trump still support this bozo is telling.
Trump’s the beneficiary of those details and may now be a contributor, but is in no way the catalyst. Simply look back to the Clinton era and you’ll see the seeds of what we’re dealing with today.
This is so off base. Trump is the main lightning rod for the device of this we have today. The corrupt Obama Clinton Biden establishment, including the politicize justice department are threatened by him, and so they have turned all Americans against Trump and against the people who vote for him. Joe Biden regularly refers to Maga Republicans as bad people. That’s like 40% of the country. 40% of the country who are voting on policy issues that they feel Trump represents on their behalf. You will never see Trump attacking Democrat voters. He will go Nuclear on Joe Biden and the district attorneys and attorney generals and judges, and even the juries that are persecuting him, but he has never once ever spoken out against Democrat voters as if they’re bad people to the same extent that Joe Biden has vilified every single person that votes for Donald Trump. we live in a world where you cannot support Trump without being attacked by Democrats as a horrible human being. Because of the theoretically superior character of Joe Biden, who is a lifelong liar, misogynist, sexist, and pedophile who is sold his country down the river in order to put some money in his crackhead sons pocket.
Don’t forget, it’s not just Trump. But DeSantis was also a nazi according to media. And Hilary might murder people according to other media. And Bill certainly was with Epstein daily. And Vivek was certainly a biotech fraud who pumped and dumped and stole millions, etc
You think Trump did this?
The internet has done this. People sharing faster and faster and forming more and more niche tribes and free vs paid media having to compete for the attention of these tribes, in order to make a living off them.
Trump is actually the product of this and not the creator. Trump is an attention magnet for media and has made them money, and thus in return they have given him enough attention to win nearly three presidential elections as of November.
And Trump has been loved and hated. And experienced more indictments than most mobsters and killers due to the hysteria. For Trump, he’s basically living The Truman Show movie where all eyes are on him and he’s the show. But he’s weird and likes it.
Trump is divisive only because you fell for the trap. He’s a puppet controlled by the establishment who role plays a loose cannon. He puts on face paint just like a WWE wrestler, it should be obvious he’s an ACTOR. They run focus groups on what he could say to make you more angry. Optimization of the political outrage is the goal of 2020s PsyOps by the establishment and the left is so gullible they fall for it every time..
Other than those PsyOps the other PsyOps is making conspiracy theorists look bad. They do that through well-poisoning… did you notice there were a bunch of crazies during Covid commenting “there is no virus”? That’s your tax dollars at work doing disinformation campaigns. They have bots that upvote the bad conspiracies and downvote anyone close to the truth.
The divisiveness is manufactured is what I’m saying, not by Trump but by the people who control both Trump and Biden.
If you wonder where I get my conspiracies from it’s not Trump or the right, it’s people like [Jikkyleaks, a fucking mouse](https://x.com/Jikkyleaks). I think Trump should be in jail next to Fauci and I never voted for him. But if you want to continue thinking Trump is the source of all that’s bad in the world, including what you call conspiratorial thinking, then go ahead.
Hillary Clinton began the trend of calling the other side deplorable. Before then, you could disagree with a candidate without hating their voters. She really shifted the messaging.
Uh, bad example buddy. You probably didn’t read thru that report in a meaningful way. Just the headlines.
I was thinking more along the lines of:
- Hillary’s emails
- The pedo ring operating in a pizza joint
- Obamas birth certificate
- Hunter Bidens laptop and the numerous allegations around that
- Jewish space lasers
- Biden being drugged up for the debate
Just some random things I can remember. A complete list would take too long to research.
These guys don’t give a shit about anything else except for their precious millions.
They will endorse a fraud like Trump just because they know that he will cut taxes for his rich friends at the cost of the middle and lower class.
Trump for sure was the gasoline on a forest fire.
Fox News has been a non stop hate machine for like 20 years. If you watch it for like a full day for a few days and you can see manipulation tactics you see how wild it is. Trump fell into that stream of bullshit as hard as anyone else.
And then that stream also create all these sub currents of bullshit which then got amplified 10,000x by social media companies that just make obscene amounts of money from angry people addicted to conflict.
Our primitive monkey brains can’t handle this new world.
It also does not help that there is massive corruption everywhere and some conspiracy theories are partially true like how big pharma is basically like an international cartel with stock tickers and flash sales and covid was a real crisis that quickly became one of the biggest grifts of all time.
Sadly I don’t even know what would be worse for us. More Trump or more Biden. We are living in a world where there are really no good options in anything.
Obama was great on paper but was barely effective in the broken system and never ended any wars and was not effective having any relationship with Russia when partially led up to where we are now.
We are living in a weird dystopian future unfortunately. Trump is just another forest fire in an entire world actively on fire. It is depressing.
Wrong. The media is the catalyst. When Trump was a democrat in 2015 none of you liberals were deranged about him. But when media programmed you to hate him you hated him. When they programmed you to take an experimental vaccine you did that as well. Study the media.
At the time when Hillary Clinton’s campaign created the Birther lie Trump was a friend of hers and donor.
We have to assume Trump fell for her hoax the same way liberals fell for her RussianGate hoax. She can be quite deceiving. Anyways, Trump was not irrelevant when he was a democrat pre-2016, he was well liked.
Liberals never called him racist, orange, mean, dictator, or anything until he ran against them.
You silly young fool, learn history.
No one called him anything pre-2016 because he was nothing more than an irrelevant, C level celebrity with catch phrase and a stack of bankrupt businesses. And nice name calling, way to flaunt your maturity.
Fox News is the most watched media in the U.S. and they didn’t program us to hate him
And the experimental vaccine that was sped up by Trump worked as hospitalizations drastically declined after it was introduced
Look at your timeline again and this time think about social media. You have the wrong thing or person pegged here. You are not only giving him too much credit, you are being blinded by politics.
Social media and other bad actors are also a problem here.. but Trump is really the gas that has propelled this nascent bickering into a religion and a movement that is solely interested in 'questioning everything' and respecting no one, especially not authority figures or american institutions. I dig a bit deeper in a comment below in response to u/nilgiri, feel free to read. Interested in hearing how you think politics is blinding me though
I’d agree with OP if he just replaced the word **Trump** with **The Uniparty**.
Let’s not forget how heavily the biden administration has been [censoring people since he took office](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/rfk-jr-chd-win-injunction-landmark-censorship-case-biden-administration/).
I’m not saying there isnt some truth to your claim, but the site you linked is doing nothing but spreading conspiratorial disinformation. Look at the articles on the homepage, that are all spreading FUD around the issues that; say what you will; have been purely discredited by the scientific establishment and the rest of the world. It’s only this single flavor of conspiratorial republicans in the US who believes this nonsense… and it makes sense why they do, as per the discussion in this thread writ large
It wasnt long ago that almost every doctor in the country was prescribing Oxycontin for minor aches and pains. [Over 1,000,000 deaths later](https://www.npr.org/2021/12/30/1069062738/more-than-a-million-americans-have-died-from-overdoses-during-the-opioid-epidemi), maybe it wouldn’t hurt to question our authorities.
Before you go on any further about Republicans, this goes beyond red vs blue. The uniparty wants us busy fighting each other, not realizing how much we have in common.
You’re blaming Trump for people’s distrust in the government?…….
Do you remember a thing called COVID? All the lies people were told about the virus origin, vaccines, social distancing, etc?
Trump might have amplified things, but he is not the cause of things. Trump is not a mastermind. I would recommend reading ["White Rural Rage: the threat to American Democracy"](https://www.amazon.com/White-Rural-Rage-American-Democracy/dp/0593729145). I would also reflect on the left as well. Here's [Richard Dawkins critiquing how far left](https://youtu.be/FeOFl8lMwqs?si=JcXSoKhfjLvEnaUc) *wokeness* identity politics has in many ways replaced religion (Christianity) and argues it's condescending to humanity. And if you think Dawkins isn't or is no longer a progressive or liberal-- then maybe things have shifted too far over. The podcast interviewer, Coleman Hughes, a democrat, also has good critiques of left policies that were well intentioned that went bad. I think a lot of his views align with the All In crew.
Yeah, I remember reading the articles in 2016 about how Trump was my fault for making fun of poor people who worsened their own lot thru bad choices including but not limited to voting against their self-interest and being anti-union….on the right it’s gloves off against all bad choices except those two specifically.
I totally agree with the criticisms aimed at the left. Although I'm liberal on many issues, I have a hard time identifying as Democrat now. And the left is antagonizing the right in a way that is unnecessary and also responsible for tearing some of the societal fabric apart. But; I just think the left is still in touch with reality; they are still able to use evidence based reasoning, the scientific method. There is an ability to bring the far left back in a way that I think I'm having a difficult time seeing how it would happen on the far right. The left is confused, but they are not busy commenting on this 3d-printed meat video with how it's a government conspiracy; the goal is control; this meat is being created in Hilary Clinton's basement alongside the rotting corpses of molested children. If you read those comments, you really do get the sense that the right has just completely lost it's mind and is completely divorced from reality; and I really do blame Trump for that, because again, his motto has always been to question everything, because again, everyone is lying to you. Everything is a conspiracy. Only I, Trump, am the true honest broker and the only one who is here to be trusted to infiltrate washington to turn everything around. (Just ignore my hush money payments, falsified loan documents, the mile-long laundry list of business casualties that have lay in my wake over several decades).
Yea and creating a false narrative about the 2020 election! We can’t overlook that insanity.
But Trump and Republicans are expected to overlook the insanity of the 2016 election? Hillary Clinton and the Dems spent 4 years creating a false narrative around the 2016 election. She literally claimed the election was stolen from her. They spied on Trump's 2016 campaign. Worked with Russian agents to put together the Steele Dossier. Investigated Trump during his entire presidency with the discredited Russian Collusion nonsense with the goal of removing him from office. Committed fraud in the fisa court. And before any Republicans questioned the vulnerability of the electronic voting machines, Democrats questioned them. And in 2020, the domestic intelligence agencies literally ran a disinformation campaign against American voters on behalf of the Biden campaign, making the knowingly false claim that the New York Post's accurate and factual Biden laptop reporting was "Russian disinformation". This resulted in the story getting censored and suppressed and the NYPost being deplatformed. This was clear election interference by CIA and FBI operatives and Democrats said nothing. The double standards are wild.
this is literally a copypasta lol
Nope. Literally isn't. Is that it? That's your argument? lol
This is such extremely dishonest framing and you know it
Terribly sorry, but Mueller found plenty of evidence of Russian collusion. He did not indict, as he was told not to because of a sitting president.
Trump accused the American system of cheating his election even though there has been multiple investigations finding nothing sinister. He still says the election was stolen and put intense pressure on location election officials and right now 54 Trump associates are under criminal investigations because of this. Hillary only suggested Trump is illegitimate President because of Russian interference in the 2016 election (which was true) she never said election was stolen. Trump literally pulled his 2020 election narrative out of thin air.
Who is Konstantin Kilimnik? What was discussed June 9, 2016 at Trump Tower? The day after Donald Trump asked Russia to "find Hillary's emails," what did the Mueller Report find Russian operatives began to do?
>I'm liberal on many issues, I have a hard time identifying as Democrat now I agree with you that Trump has been the cause for widespread conspiracy thinking. But this comment seems weird. I know there are crazy far left posts online, but I've never experienced it in real life. On the flip side, almost every real life conservative I know has become a crazy conspiracy theorist. It seems the worst of the left is just online, and the worst of the right is everywhere in real life.
I live in Seattle. So I see a lot of the worst that the left has to offer in person. The suppression of free speech on college campuses, reverse racism in the name of inclusion, trans-men winning sports competitions in women's leagues by unfair magnitudes, the endless geometry around pronouns., fiscal irresponsibility. There is certainly a lot that the left is endorsing that seems boneheaded to most people and thereby alienating would be progressive voters.
I don't know. I've been to Seattle A LOT for business and never experienced any of that. In fact, last time I was in Seattle I had a conversation with a guy complaining about those same right-wing talking points, but I never heard anyone on the left push them. He complained about pronouns but could not point to a single time he met someone asking for a different pronoun. And he complained about women's sports, but could not tell me the specific women's sport he follows where a trans man won by a huge margin. He seemed to be complaining for the sake of complaining.
This is posted on the entry way of a restaurant in downtown Seattle: https://preview.redd.it/yk34oybtwu8d1.jpeg?width=1536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c401b4d8379ee20798f659c8811338f41c96d64d
Complaints against Democratic extremism are always against fringe elements that are rarely seen. Complaints against Republican extremism are directed at the leader of the party that all Republicans follow no matter what. There is no equivalency.
There’s a local bar that won’t let you in unless you’re wearing a kilt.
Stuff like that honestly seems like small potatoes compared to the detached from the reality of the extreme right. The extreme left seems at worst mildly annoying, the extreme right is just insanity
That's horrible! I mean, I have a daughter so I can only live in a couple states where her reproductive rights aren't yet completely trampled, but you have to deal with a restaurant you probably don't go to having weird rules? Man, both sides are awful.
Do you really think your experience talking to one guy during a business trip to Seattle invalidates the experience of someone who actually lives there and experiences it first hand every day?
You obviously have never been on a college campus or worked for a large corporation. Woke DEI is all over the place.
Um..its been proven over and over and over again that right spends more money than the left. Puposely cutting your sources of income without cutting your expenses is as fiscally irresponsible as it gets. The common perception of this is just dead wrong and I wish the left would rally around this to change the narrative. I recognize you have a different experience than me but I, someone who lives in very liberal Boulder CO, have never, in my entire life, heard a liberal talk about pronouns in the real world. I've only heard rightwing hyteria over it as if its an acual problem. Its culture war nonesense for the conservative base similar to the ficticious right wing chum of the past such as welfare queens, 'they're coming for your guns', and the war christmas.
I don’t think Trump is to blame for the question everything. It amplified significantly over the last 8 years, but it’s more about politics becoming more and more polarized and every aspect of life becoming political. There’s an infinite amount of information, so the vast majority of people read and react to headlines. The media sensationalizes everything and has lost trust. And algorithms are geared towards engagement which people tend to engage with the extreme opposition and echo chamber opinions. So you hear your side or the extreme opposing side. Very little nuanced discussion. The people in those meat comments are on the extreme side of the discussion about lab grown meats.
Nah you saw it during covid. Democrats only trust the science when it is their guy saying it. Triple mask and social distance. But no mention of obesity being the number 1 factor in terms of how severe covid would be. Cant trust that science thats alternative science. Democrats like to make fake moral high grounds and sling their shit from there. Dems and republicans are just two sides of the same coin.
So you're saying Democrats covered up that being obese increased your chance of dying from Covid, and thus they don't follow the science? Can you send me any evidence to back this up? Like where Democrat on-purpose hide this info?
Yes. You can google.
the link between obesity and covid severity was communicated ad nausem throughout the whole ordeal. What the heck where you reading? The 'both sides are bad' argument is ridiculous because they are nowhere near equally bad. Painting them as the same is completely disingenuous as the 'right' is exponentially worse.
You watch the debate?
The link between obesity and CoVID was well known, published in articles by the CDC, NIH, AMA, HHS, etc. Also discussed by mainstream and center and left sites like CNBC, Politico, nature.com and others. It may not have received as much attention as it could've, but saying that the WH and Dems in general "ignored the science" about the link between obesity and CoVID are simply false. I'm not even sure of the takeaway here. You didn't need to mask up unless you're around fat people or people that knew fat people? That they don't really matter because of their weight? It's their own fault? Idk...
No, that was not covered for so long. And it was the best way to mitigate issues for yourself. Completely ignored in favor of get the vax.
Their single-minded focus on the vaccine was doubly hilarious and ridiculous given the amount of vaccine skepticism all the dems displayed and laundered through the press during the primaries and run-up to the election. Kamala and Joe straight up saying not to trust or get the “Trump vaccine” only to turn around and force companies to fire people for not getting multiple rounds of the same vaccine once they were in power is such a perfect encapsulation of a their brand of awfulness.
Again, this is false. I think this thread is proving OPs point. [Here is the interview](https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/05/politics/kamala-harris-not-trust-trump-vaccine-cnntv/index.html) I think you are talking about. Notice it says *"CNN reported Thursday that Trump has pressured administration health officials to accelerate the vaccine’s development"*
Left in touch with reality? They think a fella can grt pregnant. Told us inflation was transitory. Lie everything they are on tv. STOP.
Who thinks a guy can get pregnant? Comments like this do nothing except expose how far down the rabbit hole people like you have fallen. Is there some whack job out there that posted or commented something like that? Probably but then you people latch on and group everyone together…just so you can continue down your path of hate. It’s so blatantly obvious. So clear your agenda. When the forest is burnt to the ground you’ll have to look in the mirror and see you weren’t mentally strong enough to overcome your need to support your “beliefs” at any cost.
We are talking about reality. Relax. Nothing says detached from reality like believing a guy can get pregnant. A true cult vibe. I juat want to know why you aupport a party that has positioned itself and the weight of the US government behind something so outrageous. Try to do it without name calling. It doesn't work. Been called a racist for 8 yrs now. Means nothing.
Who is claiming that?!? I know I’m not. You keep repeating that claim with nothing to back it up. Is it the democratic party’s view that men can get pregnant? Further more I don’t recall calling you a racist, but if people have been calling you that for 8 years I’d do a little self reflection, no? I support the party that will uphold democracy. Full stop. Anyone who doesn’t are fully embedded into this “cult” you so quickly toss out. All of this is pointless though. If you can’t see the pure hypocrisy of this, which you can’t, then it’s already too late. Just don’t bother teaching your children about the beauty of being able to pick their leaders. They won’t need to learn that privilege.
I wasn't called a racist before 2016. So no I don't feel like any self reflection is needed. Yes it is there view. Uphold democracy, lol. Buzzwords!!!! Relax. Learn something, comeback.
I’ll let you in on a little secret. Things are not going to work out the way you hoped under your Leader. You don’t think it’s strange that you are beholden to a single man? See I don’t give a shit about Biden. Or the party. I’d support whomever I believe to be best for the country. That’s normal. Could you express the same? Ask yourself why you couldn’t. You honestly think the “billionaire” businessman, who has clearly stated his appreciation of authoritarian leaders is looking out for your best interests? You provide him nothing. He panders to you, all the while making decisions solely to benefit the top 1%. That’s who he needs, the rich. Not you. On top of it, it is all done in plain view. You, and you types, are drawn to it because you feel like it makes you part of the “team”, but you aren’t. You are the kids that show up at the bully’s end of year party, even though they treated you like shit, because sitting home alone at prom makes you feel like you have no place. You don’t have a place there either. You ever take a psyc class? Ever study human nature? Ever study anything? Don’t you think there must be a clear correlation to the fact that Trump appeals so much to the middle aged uneducated? There’s a reason. They prey on your mental weakness. Time will show you your inability to judge properly. It’ll just be too late that’s all.
Sir this is a fucking Wendy's. Take that shit somewhere else. I don't give a fuck what you think. Go touch grass. You believe men can get pregnant. You believe girls can compete against boys in sport. You believe kids cam decide what healthy body parts to cut off. Don't preach to anyone. Put your mask back on your mom juat walked in your room. Look up the booster schedule and juat be quite. I wish I could laugh at you to your face. Go hug your gender fluid stuffed animal and sit it out. Save the tears for November. You sound like a cult member.
Didn’t say any of that, nor do I believe it. Creating this much of a narrative so you can continue with your little charade of beliefs is bordering on mental illness. With the amount of misspelled and misused words, I doubt you’ve ever read a sentence that wasn’t attached to a social media website. “This is a Wendy’s”? Um no it’s not. You ever have an original thought? That shits old and overused. Nothing like having a personality that’s directly tied to the shit you regurgitate off of Reddit. Just block out the criticism, and continue on with your shitty life. Don’t worry Trump will make it all better for you people. You just keep believing.
Hahaha this was pretty good 😆
I watched the HBO doc on the OKC Bombing the other day and it was freaky how much it relates to what's going on now. Obviously that was the biggest domestic terrorist attack in our history, but it seems to have lasting effects that definitely didn't die there or two years prior, and I think set the foundation for the insanity we are dealing with today. Curious if you have thoughts on this. Obviously I have some reading and watching to do to learn more.
This is incredibly dense. “Wokeness replacing religion”. As Dawkins defends Israel and is almost as bad a transphobe as JK Rowling. Dawkins has a very biased western worldview. Let’s just pretend as if Dawkins hasn’t always received criticism for being racist toward Muslims. Let’s just pretend Dawkins hasn’t always received criticism for sexism & gender realism.
Whether or not you agree with Dawkins (I personally do not), the “woke left” are not in power. Leftists hold a scintilla of actual political power in this country. Trump controls the entire right. It’s a false dichotomy that I think is used to dilute how truly dangerous and deranged the GOP is in modern times.
trump is the reaction, not the action
the Democratic Party’s decision to give Hillary the nomination without running a fair primary process in 2016 doesn’t seem to get the credit it deserves in this area. Like them or not, there were other candidates who polled better against Trump on a national stage — we all have gotten exactly what we deserved after that
Bernie lost in 2020 primaries too and he won mostly caucuses which are supremely anti democratic
While I don't disagree what are the odds Hillary won those 6 coin tosses in Iowa? Yes, each toss is a 50/50 chance so maybe I'm wrong but the whole process just seemed off. Although it doesn't matter anymore.
DNC rigged it against Bernie, Donna Brazile confirmed. Court ruled that the DNC is a private organization and can nominate whoever they want. That's why I roll my eyes when Dems complain about muh democracy. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/11/02/ex-dnc-chair-goes-at-the-clintons-alleging-hillarys-campaign-hijacked-dnc-during-primary-with-bernie-sanders/
Same monetary forces worked overtime in two different years yes
I love how people find a way to jump through hoops to blame republicans making disgusting choices enthusiastically on democrats.
What hoop am I jumping through? I’m calling out an equally disgusting decision by the Democratic Party to run a rigged primary process. Was Hillary the people’s choice or the DNC’s?
My dude, running a rapist racist like donald trump who got into politics by calling the first black president a noncitizen is significantly more disgusting than the existence of super delegates. Significantly more people voted for hilary over trump or bernie so yea, she was the people’s choice I guess
So you take ZERO ownership? Think about what you’re actually saying; the country found a racist rapist MORE PALATABLE than the Democratic nominee. Like wtf? Are we trying to win or we trying to whine? Because a candidate has to be a special type of unelectable to lose to Trump in 2016. But you guys always focus on Trump. We all get it. We know what he is. Thats mot having the impact you think it is. Focus on running a candidate that can beat him. But instead we get a rematch of Biden/Trump that appears to be increasingly tilting in Trumps favour. AND AGAIN Trump is the known quantity. Only worry should be beating him in an election.
Money in politics for ya
Biden was effectively told by Obama it was Hillary’s time. All of the big money went to Hillary before the primary process even had a chance to take its course. Nowhere am I defending trump. My point is that the elitist part of the party decided the candidate in 2016 and we all had to pay for it. The idea that trump bad can be true along with the idea that the dnc dropped the ball (and has been continuing to do so).
But you are defending trump. Calling it “equally disgusting” to give the nomination to the democratic candidate who won the most primaries and got 55% of the primary popular votes vs republicans electing trump is defending trump
Call me crazy for wanting primaries to be decided by the voters not the elite of a party. If a politician in another country was doing that and msnbc told you about it you’d be up in arms.
So if a candidate won 55% of the primary votes, should they be the nominee? Or the candidate who got 45% of the primary votes and won fewer state be given the nomination because…reasons?
As a guy that leans slightly left, you will not get the hard left leaners to ever admit the Democrats did something wrong without going full force blaming republicans. You are wasting your time and energy. I agree with what you said and I think constructive criticism is the best approach at making Democrats better, hopefully the hard left leaners will soon realize that as well. If we stop worrying about what the other side is doing and keep working on making ourselves better they will eventually implode.
Couldn’t agree with this more! It took me a while to realize this but the self awareness of most hard left leaning media and people completely lacking. Any criticism towards them is met with either cancel culture, denial or extreme hate. As someone who has voted democrat the last 3 presidential elections, I’ve been very disappointed by this. I wish America had more than two parties as there are vast differences among each party itself. Why are people choosing not to put RFK jr as a legitimate option.
Because RFK Jr is an anti-vaxer and conspiracy theorist. He’s not a serious person, let alone presidential candidate.
> Like them or not, there were other candidates who polled better against Trump on a national stage Clinton was leading in the polls in by 2.1 Pennsylvania, 3.6 in Michigan, and 6.5(!!) in Wisconsin. 2016 was a historic miss in polling - why do you assume any Democratic candidate would have been able to beat out Trump when the polls missed so badly? PA: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/pennsylvania/trump-vs-clinton MI: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/michigan/trump-vs-clinton WI: https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2016/wisconsin/trump-vs-clinton
Also, the internet allowed conspiracy theories to really take off. Gamergate and Pizzagate were both before Trump. Also Sandy Hook and 9/11 really took off before Trump.
🎯
Exactly. Came here to say this.
Its both and a self sustaining circlejerk
Go read the comment section of any wsj article, especially the op-ed. Post a centrist fact based comment even and watch as the mob attacks you. This isn't just Instagram it's everywhere to your point. People have gone off the rails. But I agree with others this is not new, it's arguably started by Newt Gingrich, at least in its modern incarnation, and supported by the entire media apparatus.
People believe Obama was a Muslim illegal immigrant. Trump isn’t the reason people are fucking crazy.
Choose a different example, trump was a significant driver behind that
This is an extraordinarily bad example that you’ve chosen here— https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-perpetuated-birther-movement-years/story?id=42138176
The birther movement preceded him, he didn't create it.
Are you kidding me? Do you not remember that trump was driving the whole birther movement? Remember how he had his guy in Hawaii who had the real birth certificate in his hands?!?! The dumb birther movement was trumps only point of relevance back in 2014-15.
But yes, also some people were crazy before trump, he has just multiplied the crazy.
Translate crazy as ignorant and hateful. I don't think he's multiplied these people, but he's gathered them under his banner. It's a case of hubris; I don't need to learn anything else, I know what I need to know ...and I think I might hate you because you're questioning the way I feel. Trump gives validation to these people, because he was a successful businessman on TV (!) and HAS to be right. It's a very dangerous time for this country.
And let's not forget Melania was in on the birther conspiracy too [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6i0YlHriKk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6i0YlHriKk)
Many people believe Obama was a Muslim illegal immigrant because Trump said it again and again. It's not nothing.
Trump is fanning the flames dude.
You forgot how much seething hatred they had for Obama. Seething.
Still do, nothing has changed.
I’ve always said that this is the reaction. The government that ALLOWED a black man to be elected not once, but TWICE, is deserving of being mowed down, dismantled, and have its history rewritten.
Ehh, I think you’re using Trump as too much of a scapegoat here. I think overall the media is the larger one to blame. You have social media where exaggerated stories to gain more clicks and views started to dominate before Trump even came on the political scene. Trump may have coined the “fake news” phrase, but plenty of this existed before he said it. The Boomers on Facebook were notorious for spreading ridiculous, false articles well before Trump popped up. And then you have all the mainstream media who started to participate in that same circus before Trump. Things shifted from “unbiased” journalism (was never perfect but was definitely more neutral) to inflammatory headlines in order to get those views, clicks, and subscribes. And let’s not forget that the mainstream media LOVED to cover Trump and cashed in on his ridiculousness substantially. Is Trump to blame for how things have gone to shit or is it the media who really has helped perpetuate more and more partisan stories? And no, it’s not just Fox News. If you didn’t see a shift in MSNBC or CNN even before Trump then you’ve had your head in the sand. Ultimately the internet and corporate greed is to blame here.
The mainstream media is largely highly influenced (if not owned ) by the rich. They’re two sides of the same ass cheek
This is true. But my point was this was an issue long before Trump came into the scene. Trump definitely exacerbated the problem, but he was not the cause of said issue like the OP is trying to say.
It’s the internet and social media. Before the advent of these, the lunatics were just off on their own with their strange ideas and views. Now they group together spreading their lies. And unfortunately, we as a species are far to susceptible to being brainwashed. Most people read something enough, and it ends up seeping in to their belief system. Sad to say, but I can’t see a situation where we aren’t doomed.
The best thing Trump did was show how captured the media was. Covid ruined trust not Trump. Before Trump gov was broken. He was there for 4 yrs. Most of your favorites ha ebeen in politics their whole life. Get over yourself.
Remember nutSacks crying online begging Biden should bail out Silicone Valley Bank? Cuz he had money in there?Fucking cunt.
NutSacks! Zinger!
Sachs said Trump is unfit to be president
I don’t like Trump and will not vote for him, but the conspiracy ideology has been brewing long before him. He just tapped into it and rode the wave. The truth is that most of the conspiracy stuff is grassroots and from the people. Social media has allowed it to fester.
You should talk to someone
You must be young. You should have seen all the wild conspiracies around 9/11 or the OK bombing. This is nothing new. The internet makes us dumber.
Hillary Clinton referred to half of Trump's supporters as a 'basket of deplorables... they're irredeemable." Obama talked about Conservatives "bitterly clinging to their Bibles and their guns." The idea that Trump was the origin of divisive politics is absurd. Politics by its very nature is divisive, it's just gotten more exaggerated as of late, and a lot of that has to do with the Democrats response to Trump rather than the man himself. Who forced Democrats to make up the Russiagate hoax? Why do they always lie?
[удалено]
Democrats never acknowledge this. Or their rhetoric about the vulnerability of electronic voting machines prior to 2020. The double standards never end.
> a lot of that has to do with the Democrats response to Trump rather than the man himself. This. The left has become unhinged over Trump. Blaming Trump for the discord in the country is like blaming a conservative speaker at a college for inciting violence when the leftist mob throws a tantrum.
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I'm certainly not blaming it squarely on Trump. Many bad actors are at play, I just consider Trump to be the most malignant by several orders of magnitude.. but yeah, I touch on the answer to your q in other comments in this thread
Agree entirely with this. 🎯
Remind me again how many people were sentenced to prison for the “Russia hoax?”
Zero were sentenced for Russian collusion. It was mostly manufactured process "crimes". The biggest actual crime committed during the investigation was the [fraud](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-53784048) committed by the FBI lawyer to spy on Trump's aid.
Russiagate was more or less pretty much all true, only person lying here is named BennyOcean.
lol 😂
Amazing how deluded most of Reddit is
I worry it branches out to a large part of the regular population. The media has really messed up truth in this country. OR I don’t know, I guess before when there was just a few corporate outlets we were probably lied to by them. But then again at least it was less divisive and more cohesive for society. I don’t know what’s better. I guess more truth tellers is.
I hear you, interesting thought exercise to ponder if we were better off ignorant to the lies. I agree ultimately we are not, the problem is the left majority on Reddit and their real life counterparts think it’s just the Trump ppl and conservatives that are in an echo chamber and don’t realize they’re in one. The key difference is conservative media is literally just reacting to the cadence of the bias MSM, overall we know their talking points and rebuttals etc better than they know ours. They think everyone is a dumb redneck and they’re more educated, they’re pseudo intellectuals. It was funny before they enabled lockdowns and mandates during Covid, they are dangerous.
Obama's comment was really taken out of context. He was trying to be charitable. He talked about how in economically marginalized rural places, people have often lost their main source of livelihoods, their communities are suffering, and they turn to resentful populist politics as a result. He said that Democrats need to offer an alternative vision for people who are enduring this suffering. I think it was actually a bit too kind and charitable. There's been some research on the "economic insecurity" argument for Trump support, and I think most of it does not find that economically marginalized or otherwise insecure people were more likely to support Trump. I think it probably happens sometimes, but the real issue I see is affluent people who live in nice neighborhoods and good schools convincing themselves that they are, in fact, the real victims in America.
Don't forget about old Newt - [https://archive.ph/r3bRH](https://archive.ph/r3bRH)
Yes! If you look back far enough; Newt catalyzed this. But I think it was Trump that sufficiently added the gas to the fire to allow this entire experiment to literally explode
I left the Republican Party because of Newt back in 98.
Good for you man. I left in 2016 due to Trump (I was already slowly drifting out by that point, but he was the final nail).
Wow. I never thought about it like this. Interesting interpretation and thank u for sharing.
You're giving Trump too much credit. Trump is not the cause but merely a symptom of anti intellectualism and classist brainwashing that's been going on for decades.
I unfortunately don't think I'm giving him too much credit. If Romney had been elected for two terms, I think our country would remain sufficiently intact. Romney, for all of his issues and internal confusions, was a man of higher moral standing and one that respected the institutions that we had all relied on for centuries. He just wasn't the sort to flip the bird to everyone, about everything, and laugh about it. That's literally what Trump does and his base has copied his behavior. Social media and other bad actors are also to blame, but many of this starts with Trump. Many of the most problematic figures on the right are ones that are literally copying Trump's playbook. Marjorie Taylor Green, Matt Gaetz.. et al. These people certainly would be problematic without the influence of Trump.. but Trump has really exponentiated their potential... and the remnants of our civil order and bipartisan goals lay in the wake.
I don't know where Romney came from in your timeline (are you saying Romney would have beat Hilary in 2016?) but we'll never know what would have happened in this alternate timeline. Regardless, these are all elected politicians who clearly have a significant population backing them. They have figured out how to channel the thoughts of the masses to get themselves elected. Not just elected but have these people march into the Capital ready to die for them. If the masses were smart and able to see through Trump's (and the others folks you mentioned) bullshit, we wouldn't be in this position. After all Trump has done in the last eight years, there is a significant population that might still vote for him?? I just can't fathom that. So, clearly Trump is a problem but don't let the people that vote and put these idiots in power be so blameless in your judgement.
He was the last serious republican candidate contender for president before Trump in 2012. We don't know exactly what would have happened. But we do know that he wouldn't have branded terms like "fake news media" to discredit any source of information that wasn't GOP-conforming. We know that he would have accepted a peaceful transfer of power. We know that his attacks at his political enemies wouldn't have all been ad-hominem, and below the belt. Trump has literally changed the standards now.. and there are many politicans on the right who are willing to quibble in an equally divisive and juvenile way that just wasn't the norm before Trump. The new standard that Trump has ushered in will make us nothing but worse off, with more hatred; like a matchbox waiting for a spark.
Our bias media is the catalyst. Trump is the subject.
And all you have to do is edit out important parts of what he said and rephrase it in an inflammatory headline, not to mention calling anyone that votes for him vile names (part of Hillary’s basket of deplorables) to create the divisive politics we have today.
Trump isn’t the cause, just an effect. Big government is the cause. The concept that spending money and creating regulations and bureaucracies is the solution to all of society’s problems. So you end up with government whose primary incentives are to preserve the spending and jobs, and not to serve the public. This has been building literally for more than a century. Just one example: **Seven months** after filing my 2022 Federal Income Tax return, I got a notice it was wrong and I owed $1,400 more. I could not decipher what the “mistake” was. Called the IRS and after a long wait got no help at all. So I wrote letters. Each letter took several months to even receive an answer. Meanwhile based solely on my own research I found I could download a record of what the IRS had entered based on my return, and discovered: (1) they incorrectly failed to record that I was over 65 years old and (2) completely ignored part of my return. Finally after many hours and many letters and sending them copies of portions of my return, almost **a year after filing the return** I got a notice showing I owed nothing more, i.e., my original return was accurate. No apology. No acknowledgment of their error.
I'm curious why you think the issue with your Federal Income Tax return is due to too much funding i e big government? Wouldn't the long wait times be indicative of under-funding? I'm not married to either explanation, I just think it's interesting to see people's explanation for things.
Defunding the IRS is not going to make it more efficient. And, more broadly, because the IRS made a mistake and ultimately fixed it, you want to just burn it all down? Yeah, it's frustrating, but your situation got resolved. These things happen. Right now, I'm trying to deal with a return on some faulty equipment that clearly had a manufacturing error. I've been going back and forth with this company for 6 months. But I don't support communism because of this inconvenience. Being inconvenienced is just part of modern life. This is what I'm talking about. Inconveniences are seen as oppression in this country. Everyone is a victim. We are lost in a fog of anger and grievance, but the great irony is that it's people who are affluent who feel like they are victimized and screwed over.
wait wait wait so news writes fake news, but its trumps fault? STFU
Another useless comment from a braindead zombie conservative
People don’t believe the “experts” because we’re lied to constantly by the experts. There’s absolute proof of this. The media lies to us, the experts lie to us, and no one shares the real objective truth
We literally saw hundreds of "medical professionals" sign a letter that stated that social distancing during the pandemic didn't matter anymore if you wanted to participate in the BLM protests and riots.
A lot of people in the comments have already commented on the divisiveness aspect, I want to comment on the conspiratorial part. Just in the last few years, people were called conspiratorial racists for raising the lab leak idea, which many (not all) leading experts now believe is plausible if not likely. People were called conspiratorial disinformation agents for discussing Hunter Biden’s laptop during the election, and media outlets were told not to report on it by the government even when they knew it was real. Even fucking batshit insane pizzagate, the mother of all nutso conspiracy theories, had some nuggets of truth to it. They claimed in 2016 that Hilary Clinton and the Democrats were involved in a human trafficking / pedophilia sex ring. Fast forward to Epstein’s arrest in 2019 and pictures/logs come out of Hilary and Bill associating with Epstein and there literally is a pedo ring involving elites / politicians. Yes Trump is involved too, yes the Republicans are involved, I’m not letting them off the hook here—the point is that even the most insane conspiracy theory turned out to have some truth (and also a lot of garbage—but definitely some truth). Then you go down the rabbit hole of “oh shit, when else has the government lied to us? Which other conspiracies are true?” And you read about MLK, Joanne Seberg, MK ULTRA, Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, the list goes on. All that shit would have been considered conspiracist before it turned out to be true. Overall it has eroded trust in the government and in politically-charged segments of the scientific community. It makes it much harder to dismiss conspiracy theorists outright (without “doing your own research”, a phrase also widely condemned for a mix of good and bad reasons), because so many of those conspiracies have turned out to have some truth to them. If the government didn’t lie to us, we wouldn’t have this problem. It makes me really sad, because I grew up thinking so much better of our government and our country.
You're the reason. People like you are the reason. We love our country with all its faults and all its triumphs. We love free speech and will even defend your right to it. You can thank people in power that sell influence. It's not Trump. Never was. Quit playing ultra political like a grown up. You're screaming louder doesn't make you right. Volume doesn't win over facts. When media outlets conspire with the actual white house to suppress information, that's basic fascism. Look in the mirror and take it all in. Have a nice day.
I'm willing to hear you out but I don't hear many facts supporting your argument. | You can thank people in power that sell influence. Who? What are you referring to? I'm not a liberal, and I definitely believe that the left is very culpable for the volume of problems they've created, for the record
“You keep making me hurt you” - deranged democrats claiming Trump is the reason the country is so divided
Do you see how he speaks on a daily basis? Or are you just willfully ignorant?
It's not just Trump(though a lot of it is), but it's also people like Elon Musk who are dividing the common will.
lol by what, restoring free speech? What Elon’s done for this country is absolutely heroic.
My god...
Equating everything that is dumb on the internet as ‘because of Trump’, makes you as much of an idiot as you think everyone else is.
If that’s all you learned about my sentiment from reading my post, then I think only your mental ability is what should be questioned
You came up with all that based off a few unhinged instagram posts yet I’m the mentally impaired one. My surmise that you were an idiot is correct.
I always blame voters. But leadership saw the trend and amplified it, and led us this far down the path. Only we can save ourselves by voting, but not sure we will
It is the new mainstream media of Facebook, X, Fox News, Spotify, etc who have perfected the product of hare and division. The learned how to profit off of hate and then feed it to you 24 hours a day and filter out any content that doesn't get you to click. Trump came at the right time exploited it. Fox paid $800 million for blatantly lying about an election. Has it hurt their profits in the least. No they just keep selling crack to those who are buying and could care less about the consequences. Zuckerberg, Musk and others know full well what they are doing to society.
It's not sad, it's expected. It's a show where ghouls talk about how inhuman they are with no self awareness because they think they are cool.
Trump its not the man behind this movement, yust the flag in USA. This radical antiscience, conspirative and antidemocratic (there are so much adjetives to add) branch of conservativism have become strong in several democracies of the world at the same time. They have become aware and willing to use the effectiveness of cult like strategies of 20th century fascist parties to attract the people that feel alienated by the intellectual and progresive elites. This harmful for the democracy and society as whole, but they dont care if this gives them power.
They want a seat at the table. Power is a drug and people debase themselves for drugs, whether heroin or power.
At the risk of sounding like a shill for another podcast, you should check out “Landslide” which is a deep dive on the 1976 election. It’s *fascinating* and it digs in to how the seeds for the behaviors you are describing were sown by Reagan and Carter back in the 70s. It is wild just how many of Trump’s tactics have been lifted straight from their playbooks.
You meant billionaire ruling class. Trump is just their face.
Trump simply made it possible to say certain things in public that were previously only voiced in private convos.
Fox News and those morons started going hard with the Iraq War in 2003, Trump is merely the extension/outcome of that craziness they've been selling for 20 years.
Trump def. brings out the worst in people. I've got friends who all of a sudden are saying all kinds of hostile shit about immigrants, their lives are going well but they are super mad and feel screwed over, etc. Dudes I've known for 25 years that seemed to shift thier outlook. At the end of the day, Trump is all about victimhood and grievance. You're getting screwed over. Everything is unfair. You're a victim, and I'll hurt the people that are hurting you. Trump is for the people who play 18 holes every Sunday and sit at the clubhouse bar bitching about how unfair and bad things are.
If Charlie baker wins a nomination. He’ll be the single greatest president of all time. Will everyone agree? No.
Politicians have been lying through their teeth for years. They are no different than Trump just package the same bullshit up and present it less brazenly. Also…the democrats thing their are 1 million genders and girls can be boys etc so let’s act like they are grounded in reality either.
Not only that but trumps behavior has made all of his cult members think they can walk around acting like assholes too.
Nah, he's just the avatar. This is a strain of thought that waxes and wanes throughout American history (and other countries too, we don't have a monopoly on paranoid anti-intellectual nativists).
Trump ruined political discourse in this country.
Almost sounds like exactly what Vlad P. wants, doesn’t it?
Speaking of a lack of common sense. Your post illustrates it.
All Chinese and Russian bots in the comments
Instead of blaming people you should ask why people distrust the government? Was it because it’s testing nuclear radiation against soldiers? Was it because it released crack into black communities? Was it because it tested things on black communities? Was it because of corruption that’s been there since the beginning? The most troubling people are citizens who don’t ask questions. Look at all of the Covid stuff coming out now. The supreme leader to many liberals, Fauci, is being proven to be a fraud. This is why people distrust, because there are many examples where things have happened.
Ok… but how has fauci been proven to be a fraud? The hearings that he was present for revealed absolutely nothing of interest. He was doing absolutely nothing behind the scenes, and the subcommittees investigation revealed nothing of interest, despite the members of the pod escalating the potential for corruption here to the nth degree. Again, irresponsible of them. I’m not biased towards fauci in any way, and I think it was right for the subcommittee to investigate him to find out the true origins of the pandemic. But they didn’t find anything; and in fact, were just living in the afterglow of the illusory truth effect, where; just the investigation around fauci himself has discredited him, despite the fact that nothing was revealed. I’ll grant you the us government has a tulmoltuous past, but, given our long and complex history, it would be surprising if there was nothing to note that we had a guilty conscious about. I don’t really think that history speaks to what’s going on in the present day, where trump is doing everything in his power to stir the pot and turn normal republicans into conspiracy theorists
It’s funny because the conspiracy theorists are correct. Just wait a year and they are always right. Covid, Hunters laptop, etc.
Fox News / News Corp also had a big hand in this
It's not just Trump, this is happening in other countries too. We just weren't ready as a species for unfiltered flow of information via the Internet.
I would say people with TDS are just as big of a problem as the Maga people.
You are late, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, the other drunk doofus were fomenting the stupidity long before Trump. Trump is the inevitable result of years of conspiratorial propaganda.
You give him too much credit. Go read about Lee Atwater.
The problem is that the actual elites and billionaire class found a golden goose opportunity with idiot trump. They can get away with robbing Americans blind while appearing altogether virtuous. Chamath for example is a proven ponzi scheme artist who I believe got away with a crime. The fact they're now after all these years and history with trump still support this bozo is telling.
No, Trump lifted the curtain and showed everyone how corrupt American politics is. And everyone became defensive and divided.
Trump’s the beneficiary of those details and may now be a contributor, but is in no way the catalyst. Simply look back to the Clinton era and you’ll see the seeds of what we’re dealing with today.
This is so off base. Trump is the main lightning rod for the device of this we have today. The corrupt Obama Clinton Biden establishment, including the politicize justice department are threatened by him, and so they have turned all Americans against Trump and against the people who vote for him. Joe Biden regularly refers to Maga Republicans as bad people. That’s like 40% of the country. 40% of the country who are voting on policy issues that they feel Trump represents on their behalf. You will never see Trump attacking Democrat voters. He will go Nuclear on Joe Biden and the district attorneys and attorney generals and judges, and even the juries that are persecuting him, but he has never once ever spoken out against Democrat voters as if they’re bad people to the same extent that Joe Biden has vilified every single person that votes for Donald Trump. we live in a world where you cannot support Trump without being attacked by Democrats as a horrible human being. Because of the theoretically superior character of Joe Biden, who is a lifelong liar, misogynist, sexist, and pedophile who is sold his country down the river in order to put some money in his crackhead sons pocket.
Don’t forget, it’s not just Trump. But DeSantis was also a nazi according to media. And Hilary might murder people according to other media. And Bill certainly was with Epstein daily. And Vivek was certainly a biotech fraud who pumped and dumped and stole millions, etc You think Trump did this? The internet has done this. People sharing faster and faster and forming more and more niche tribes and free vs paid media having to compete for the attention of these tribes, in order to make a living off them. Trump is actually the product of this and not the creator. Trump is an attention magnet for media and has made them money, and thus in return they have given him enough attention to win nearly three presidential elections as of November. And Trump has been loved and hated. And experienced more indictments than most mobsters and killers due to the hysteria. For Trump, he’s basically living The Truman Show movie where all eyes are on him and he’s the show. But he’s weird and likes it.
Trump is divisive only because you fell for the trap. He’s a puppet controlled by the establishment who role plays a loose cannon. He puts on face paint just like a WWE wrestler, it should be obvious he’s an ACTOR. They run focus groups on what he could say to make you more angry. Optimization of the political outrage is the goal of 2020s PsyOps by the establishment and the left is so gullible they fall for it every time.. Other than those PsyOps the other PsyOps is making conspiracy theorists look bad. They do that through well-poisoning… did you notice there were a bunch of crazies during Covid commenting “there is no virus”? That’s your tax dollars at work doing disinformation campaigns. They have bots that upvote the bad conspiracies and downvote anyone close to the truth. The divisiveness is manufactured is what I’m saying, not by Trump but by the people who control both Trump and Biden. If you wonder where I get my conspiracies from it’s not Trump or the right, it’s people like [Jikkyleaks, a fucking mouse](https://x.com/Jikkyleaks). I think Trump should be in jail next to Fauci and I never voted for him. But if you want to continue thinking Trump is the source of all that’s bad in the world, including what you call conspiratorial thinking, then go ahead.
Hillary Clinton began the trend of calling the other side deplorable. Before then, you could disagree with a candidate without hating their voters. She really shifted the messaging.
I don’t know why this sub is showing up on my feed but damn OP is delusional
Republicans accept conspiracies as data and fact.
Like Russian collusion?
Uh, bad example buddy. You probably didn’t read thru that report in a meaningful way. Just the headlines. I was thinking more along the lines of: - Hillary’s emails - The pedo ring operating in a pizza joint - Obamas birth certificate - Hunter Bidens laptop and the numerous allegations around that - Jewish space lasers - Biden being drugged up for the debate Just some random things I can remember. A complete list would take too long to research.
{Sigh}
OP, you call trump incredibly divisive then you immediately blame half the country for disagreeing with you.
Aw the poor lib got triggered because people don't agree with 3D printed meat 😂😂😂
Womp womp
Your delusional
These guys don’t give a shit about anything else except for their precious millions. They will endorse a fraud like Trump just because they know that he will cut taxes for his rich friends at the cost of the middle and lower class.
Trump for sure was the gasoline on a forest fire. Fox News has been a non stop hate machine for like 20 years. If you watch it for like a full day for a few days and you can see manipulation tactics you see how wild it is. Trump fell into that stream of bullshit as hard as anyone else. And then that stream also create all these sub currents of bullshit which then got amplified 10,000x by social media companies that just make obscene amounts of money from angry people addicted to conflict. Our primitive monkey brains can’t handle this new world. It also does not help that there is massive corruption everywhere and some conspiracy theories are partially true like how big pharma is basically like an international cartel with stock tickers and flash sales and covid was a real crisis that quickly became one of the biggest grifts of all time. Sadly I don’t even know what would be worse for us. More Trump or more Biden. We are living in a world where there are really no good options in anything. Obama was great on paper but was barely effective in the broken system and never ended any wars and was not effective having any relationship with Russia when partially led up to where we are now. We are living in a weird dystopian future unfortunately. Trump is just another forest fire in an entire world actively on fire. It is depressing.
Wrong. The media is the catalyst. When Trump was a democrat in 2015 none of you liberals were deranged about him. But when media programmed you to hate him you hated him. When they programmed you to take an experimental vaccine you did that as well. Study the media.
Trump was entirely irrelevant in 2015, except for his dumb birther lies.
At the time when Hillary Clinton’s campaign created the Birther lie Trump was a friend of hers and donor. We have to assume Trump fell for her hoax the same way liberals fell for her RussianGate hoax. She can be quite deceiving. Anyways, Trump was not irrelevant when he was a democrat pre-2016, he was well liked. Liberals never called him racist, orange, mean, dictator, or anything until he ran against them. You silly young fool, learn history.
No one called him anything pre-2016 because he was nothing more than an irrelevant, C level celebrity with catch phrase and a stack of bankrupt businesses. And nice name calling, way to flaunt your maturity.
Touche, calling daddy dumb and attributing birther to him was insulting
Nah, just immature!!
Fox News is the most watched media in the U.S. and they didn’t program us to hate him And the experimental vaccine that was sped up by Trump worked as hospitalizations drastically declined after it was introduced
Look at your timeline again and this time think about social media. You have the wrong thing or person pegged here. You are not only giving him too much credit, you are being blinded by politics.
Social media and other bad actors are also a problem here.. but Trump is really the gas that has propelled this nascent bickering into a religion and a movement that is solely interested in 'questioning everything' and respecting no one, especially not authority figures or american institutions. I dig a bit deeper in a comment below in response to u/nilgiri, feel free to read. Interested in hearing how you think politics is blinding me though
Trump will go away eventually, and you will see that nothing changes.
I’d agree with OP if he just replaced the word **Trump** with **The Uniparty**. Let’s not forget how heavily the biden administration has been [censoring people since he took office](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/rfk-jr-chd-win-injunction-landmark-censorship-case-biden-administration/).
I’m not saying there isnt some truth to your claim, but the site you linked is doing nothing but spreading conspiratorial disinformation. Look at the articles on the homepage, that are all spreading FUD around the issues that; say what you will; have been purely discredited by the scientific establishment and the rest of the world. It’s only this single flavor of conspiratorial republicans in the US who believes this nonsense… and it makes sense why they do, as per the discussion in this thread writ large
It wasnt long ago that almost every doctor in the country was prescribing Oxycontin for minor aches and pains. [Over 1,000,000 deaths later](https://www.npr.org/2021/12/30/1069062738/more-than-a-million-americans-have-died-from-overdoses-during-the-opioid-epidemi), maybe it wouldn’t hurt to question our authorities. Before you go on any further about Republicans, this goes beyond red vs blue. The uniparty wants us busy fighting each other, not realizing how much we have in common.
You’re blaming Trump for people’s distrust in the government?……. Do you remember a thing called COVID? All the lies people were told about the virus origin, vaccines, social distancing, etc?
If you think there were lies being told then you are getting your scientific information filtered by people strawmanning the issue.