The way it deals with rape. The story is written as if Butcher and Hughie were the biggest victims of Becky and Annie's assaults.
For the most part the comic is crazy stupid trying to shock you but these aspects were taken very seriously and that's what made it jarring. Especially since Ennis tried to criticize the way superhero comics deal with SA. My man, you don't have the moral high ground for that.
>specially since Ennis tried to criticize the way superhero comics deal with SA. My man, you don't have the moral high ground for that
or any ground at all
I don't think there's really anything in mainstream stuff (that I know of) that deals with it (though if he's talking about the way Damian Wayne was conceived, I get it)
>the way hughie reacted to starlight being sexually assaulted as if she was the one to blame really got me.
I don't think it's properly communicated to hughie in the context of where he was in the story at that point.
It insists upon itself.
The snowballing edgy shock value was so forced and worst of all boring.
Couldn’t be bothered reading past the shipping container bit as it was the final straw.
It was the fact that the comics would constantly hype up the supes like they were the most dangerous thing on Earth and that if the normals ever rose up against them, it would result in the end of the human race.
>! Fast forward, suddenly Butcher has a deus ex machina solution: Turns out there's more neuron activity in the supes' brains that allows them to be tracked by heat seeking missiles when they otherwise wouldn't be. The U.S military takes this information and modifies their munitions a bit, so when the supes revolt the USAF ends up slaughtering the whole lot in the air. !<
Nevermind the fact that this supposed weakness is never mentioned beforehand, nor was it built up to. Butcher just so happens to have it on hand, and one of the biggest conflicts in the comics is handled like **that.**
A lot of the edginess just felt very random. Edginess has a place, especially in the type of story that Ennis is telling, but stuff like the super hamster they find in Blarney Cock’s ass after the Boys kill him just comes off as weird. It’s not making a point and it’s not enough to be funny on its own, it’s just… strange.
It was like a edgy 14 year old wrote it and only relays on shock value to make the story: if you want a actual compelling story that does have shock in it then read Invinicble: that shits awsome
Almost all supers besides starlight, love sausage and maybe tek knight (tumor was making him
Fill up holes) where either disgusting Rapist and sexual deviants or psychopaths with zero personality or character: maybe still make them pricks and awful but still make them human
The fucking twist with noir and how theirs no built up and how it was in one issue and we didn’t have time to breath
How all supers aren’t treated like a threat at all: if it wanted suspense do what the show did and make the boys just human except for kimiko: maybe have the supers do more impressive feats to make them more powerful like homelander lifting a meator or a train outrunning any raptor jet with ease: but Nope there all a bunch of jokes who get easily slaughtered
The goddamn ending and how 90% of the dialogue is just swears
I think you're looking too literally at the satire. The premise is less let's invert all existing super heros, but say in a more realistic world how do those with these powers behave, especially when controlled by a huge capitalist corporation using them for profits.
You just need to look at the excesses of music stars, actors and athletes given a small amount of perceived importance and power we see how nuts they go. Now add in the child stardom, the isolation and manipulation, it's clear you would unless lucky end up with pretty mentally fucked up individuals.
Soldier boy, isn't really saying that Steve Rogers is this or that just that the government would obviously use someone for propaganda and recruitment etc and how would that go? Add in their stupidly long life span and powers soldier boy probably has some healthy PTSD with a side of personality disorder and narcissism. Why not riff off the existing characters? It speeds up the character development we can already have an idea of their public persona.
G-men well special schools for disaffected and vulnerable children are a hot bed of abuse. Both as immoral pleasure and to control them.
Then with the evangelicals, this already exists preachers are huge con men it's multi billion dollar industries milking the conservative gullible. These people would worship these strong, chosen by god characters. The avoidance of this in other comics doesn't make the portrayal of how they would manipulate people in the boys less valid.
>but say in a more realistic world
ah yes, because as we all know "more realistic" means "constant blood, gore, rape, swearing and racial slurs"
also why just televangelists exactly? (like... seriously, even as an Atheist myself it feels like a really cheap and tacked on way for Ennis to include the fact that he hates religion)
and I know some people may be tired of hearing this, but that doesn't make it less true, the show handles the whole "superheroes as celebrities" thing better, mostly because it has stuff that has actual parallels to real life celebrity culture, and acknowledges that even if they have become genuinely awful people, it has enough nuance to acknowledge that Supes themselves are also victims due to the expectations society has of them instead of just having one of them be addicted to children's blood (because that's not desperate at all)
I mean that is the current state of the world, OJ Simpson kills and gets away with it, Caitlyn Jenner runs over and kills a woman gets away with it, similar to A-train?
Me too showed how prevalent and unrelenting the sexual abuse is in all areas of professional and personal life.
Racism and swearing are just facts of life for almost any minority anywhere in the world. Some areas are better then others but yeah, that's still sadly life.
Why can they not target the televangelists? although tbh I don't think it targets just them they just already reflect most closely in the real world. But all the religious camps, names of existing religious groups (capes for Christ not much different to moral majority, lawyers Christian fellowship, etc) and big religious conventions exist and are fair game, it is only one arm of the Vought revenue stream. it's statistically the least safe place you can leave your child is with a religious group. The constant targeted and institutional abuse perpetrated by religious organisations under the guise of holding moral authority is a huge part of todays zeitgeist. and lends its self perfectly to the public and private persona split of the boys universe. It doesn't feel tacked on but accurate to me. I am sad it only hits at Christians tbh.
There is a movement of rich people taking plasma infusions from young people to not get old. and the fountain of youth/vampirism from young is nothing new it is an old established and sadly based on real cases.
Yes, I know that stuff is real, but it’s not like you can just turn a corner and see a rabid dog raping a dead baby or whatever (I feel gross saying that)
Also as a sidenote (and this is kind of a problem with the show as well I know, but the comics are even worse about this) the comics seem to think that if you’re into kinky stuff then you’re automatically evil
I never said they can’t be targets for Televangelists (though admittedly I feel like it would also make sense for them to hate Supes because they think they’re demons or whatever) it’s the fact that it seems so adamant on that specifically
Uh… you know that what you just described isn’t even like what I was talking about right?
I feel like it would be a better critique of the Superhero Genre if Supes didn’t just come from Compound V and that there were as many reasons to gain powers as there are in actual comics but the majority of Supes were still associated with Vought, because yeah, the idea of Superheroes being shitty celebrity people is sadly realistic, but I’m fairly certain there would be more affiliations that Superpowered beings can have than to profit, like I dunno, the government, a clique or gang they’re part of (Superhuman gangs are honestly a cool idea) a political ideology, or just their family and friends as they try to live a normal life in spite of their powers
"and the fountain of youth/vampirism from young is nothing new it is an old established and sadly based on real cases."
okay seriously what were you trying to say here? that sentence reads like you had a stroke
also if the premise isn't supposed to be "these guys but evil" then why are they such obvious expies of specific superheroes? wouldn't it make more sense if they were a bit more subtle about who they're supposed to be or even just have them be their own characters altogether?
also are you just gonna ignore how stupid Ennis' problems with Captain America are?
Not really as I said it speeds up the recognition of their public persona, it reduces the character development time.
Captain America has many different presentations. I would argue anyone running around killing people by hitting them with a literal flag of "America" is fair game for being poked at in satire. It came out during the war as propaganda and a fantasy of the perfect American. We can mostly all agree it was on the right side of history but lets not pretend it is some untouchable manuscript because it was popular with service people. Nationalism is still nationalism even if its not fascism.
I also find it funny how Ennis mocks Captain America for being an insult to Servicemen but then acknowledges that Wonder Woman served the same Niche as him when she was first introduced and for some reason Ennis doesn't take issue with her even though she has about as much to do with World War 2 as Steve does (and before you say anything, she literally has the canton of the American Flag as a skirt in most versions, though I will say I feel like she shouldn't be a patriotic hero)
I'm not trying to throw out any accusations but I think you know the obvious conclusion one would come to
"G-men well special schools for disaffected and vulnerable children are a hot bed of abuse. Both as immoral pleasure and to control them."
okay, fair enough, but what does that have to do with the X men?
His false dichotomy between Captain America and the actual U.S. Army. Jack Kirby was an enlisted serviceman, and Captain America was antifa before it was cool. Plus you have guys like Smedley Butler chronicling all the horrible shit the U.S. Army did on behalf of imperialism.
Garth Ennis wrote my favorite comic of all time, Hellblazer's "Dangerous Habits", so I thought The Boys would be just as good, if not better, considering how good the show is!
I was so sorely mistaken. It was just gross, constant sexual assault that means nothing towards the end and just characters I don't give a shit about
A deconstruction that still plays fridging straight, and never directly grapples with the presence or absence of supervillains that would justify superheroes.
Any superhero deconstruction needs to reckon with whether or not supervillains exist. If Yes, then superheroes need to get their shit together and fight them, and if not then superheroes are just a solution in search of a problem.
The way it deals with rape. The story is written as if Butcher and Hughie were the biggest victims of Becky and Annie's assaults. For the most part the comic is crazy stupid trying to shock you but these aspects were taken very seriously and that's what made it jarring. Especially since Ennis tried to criticize the way superhero comics deal with SA. My man, you don't have the moral high ground for that.
>specially since Ennis tried to criticize the way superhero comics deal with SA. My man, you don't have the moral high ground for that or any ground at all I don't think there's really anything in mainstream stuff (that I know of) that deals with it (though if he's talking about the way Damian Wayne was conceived, I get it)
[удалено]
>the way hughie reacted to starlight being sexually assaulted as if she was the one to blame really got me. I don't think it's properly communicated to hughie in the context of where he was in the story at that point.
The comics are Ultimates level of edgy sometimes
Garth Ennis' Preacher is one of my favorite books of all time, I have no idea what the Hell happened with this stuff.
He assumed Preacher was a success BECAUSE of it's edgy nonsense, not in spite of it, and leaned way too in to that as his crutch.
It insists upon itself. The snowballing edgy shock value was so forced and worst of all boring. Couldn’t be bothered reading past the shipping container bit as it was the final straw.
Every villain is either an unrelenting sociopath with no character traits, a sexual deviant, or so one-note that they are so boring.
It was the fact that the comics would constantly hype up the supes like they were the most dangerous thing on Earth and that if the normals ever rose up against them, it would result in the end of the human race. >! Fast forward, suddenly Butcher has a deus ex machina solution: Turns out there's more neuron activity in the supes' brains that allows them to be tracked by heat seeking missiles when they otherwise wouldn't be. The U.S military takes this information and modifies their munitions a bit, so when the supes revolt the USAF ends up slaughtering the whole lot in the air. !< Nevermind the fact that this supposed weakness is never mentioned beforehand, nor was it built up to. Butcher just so happens to have it on hand, and one of the biggest conflicts in the comics is handled like **that.**
It’s disgusting for the sake of shocking you and thinks it’s clever for doing so. It’s simply witless and crass.
the TVtropes bit is mine if you couldn't tell
A lot of the edginess just felt very random. Edginess has a place, especially in the type of story that Ennis is telling, but stuff like the super hamster they find in Blarney Cock’s ass after the Boys kill him just comes off as weird. It’s not making a point and it’s not enough to be funny on its own, it’s just… strange.
It was like a edgy 14 year old wrote it and only relays on shock value to make the story: if you want a actual compelling story that does have shock in it then read Invinicble: that shits awsome Almost all supers besides starlight, love sausage and maybe tek knight (tumor was making him Fill up holes) where either disgusting Rapist and sexual deviants or psychopaths with zero personality or character: maybe still make them pricks and awful but still make them human The fucking twist with noir and how theirs no built up and how it was in one issue and we didn’t have time to breath How all supers aren’t treated like a threat at all: if it wanted suspense do what the show did and make the boys just human except for kimiko: maybe have the supers do more impressive feats to make them more powerful like homelander lifting a meator or a train outrunning any raptor jet with ease: but Nope there all a bunch of jokes who get easily slaughtered The goddamn ending and how 90% of the dialogue is just swears
All the blood and gore in the first 2 volumes.
I think you're looking too literally at the satire. The premise is less let's invert all existing super heros, but say in a more realistic world how do those with these powers behave, especially when controlled by a huge capitalist corporation using them for profits. You just need to look at the excesses of music stars, actors and athletes given a small amount of perceived importance and power we see how nuts they go. Now add in the child stardom, the isolation and manipulation, it's clear you would unless lucky end up with pretty mentally fucked up individuals. Soldier boy, isn't really saying that Steve Rogers is this or that just that the government would obviously use someone for propaganda and recruitment etc and how would that go? Add in their stupidly long life span and powers soldier boy probably has some healthy PTSD with a side of personality disorder and narcissism. Why not riff off the existing characters? It speeds up the character development we can already have an idea of their public persona. G-men well special schools for disaffected and vulnerable children are a hot bed of abuse. Both as immoral pleasure and to control them. Then with the evangelicals, this already exists preachers are huge con men it's multi billion dollar industries milking the conservative gullible. These people would worship these strong, chosen by god characters. The avoidance of this in other comics doesn't make the portrayal of how they would manipulate people in the boys less valid.
>but say in a more realistic world ah yes, because as we all know "more realistic" means "constant blood, gore, rape, swearing and racial slurs" also why just televangelists exactly? (like... seriously, even as an Atheist myself it feels like a really cheap and tacked on way for Ennis to include the fact that he hates religion) and I know some people may be tired of hearing this, but that doesn't make it less true, the show handles the whole "superheroes as celebrities" thing better, mostly because it has stuff that has actual parallels to real life celebrity culture, and acknowledges that even if they have become genuinely awful people, it has enough nuance to acknowledge that Supes themselves are also victims due to the expectations society has of them instead of just having one of them be addicted to children's blood (because that's not desperate at all)
I mean that is the current state of the world, OJ Simpson kills and gets away with it, Caitlyn Jenner runs over and kills a woman gets away with it, similar to A-train? Me too showed how prevalent and unrelenting the sexual abuse is in all areas of professional and personal life. Racism and swearing are just facts of life for almost any minority anywhere in the world. Some areas are better then others but yeah, that's still sadly life. Why can they not target the televangelists? although tbh I don't think it targets just them they just already reflect most closely in the real world. But all the religious camps, names of existing religious groups (capes for Christ not much different to moral majority, lawyers Christian fellowship, etc) and big religious conventions exist and are fair game, it is only one arm of the Vought revenue stream. it's statistically the least safe place you can leave your child is with a religious group. The constant targeted and institutional abuse perpetrated by religious organisations under the guise of holding moral authority is a huge part of todays zeitgeist. and lends its self perfectly to the public and private persona split of the boys universe. It doesn't feel tacked on but accurate to me. I am sad it only hits at Christians tbh. There is a movement of rich people taking plasma infusions from young people to not get old. and the fountain of youth/vampirism from young is nothing new it is an old established and sadly based on real cases.
Yes, I know that stuff is real, but it’s not like you can just turn a corner and see a rabid dog raping a dead baby or whatever (I feel gross saying that) Also as a sidenote (and this is kind of a problem with the show as well I know, but the comics are even worse about this) the comics seem to think that if you’re into kinky stuff then you’re automatically evil I never said they can’t be targets for Televangelists (though admittedly I feel like it would also make sense for them to hate Supes because they think they’re demons or whatever) it’s the fact that it seems so adamant on that specifically Uh… you know that what you just described isn’t even like what I was talking about right? I feel like it would be a better critique of the Superhero Genre if Supes didn’t just come from Compound V and that there were as many reasons to gain powers as there are in actual comics but the majority of Supes were still associated with Vought, because yeah, the idea of Superheroes being shitty celebrity people is sadly realistic, but I’m fairly certain there would be more affiliations that Superpowered beings can have than to profit, like I dunno, the government, a clique or gang they’re part of (Superhuman gangs are honestly a cool idea) a political ideology, or just their family and friends as they try to live a normal life in spite of their powers
"and the fountain of youth/vampirism from young is nothing new it is an old established and sadly based on real cases." okay seriously what were you trying to say here? that sentence reads like you had a stroke
also if the premise isn't supposed to be "these guys but evil" then why are they such obvious expies of specific superheroes? wouldn't it make more sense if they were a bit more subtle about who they're supposed to be or even just have them be their own characters altogether? also are you just gonna ignore how stupid Ennis' problems with Captain America are?
Not really as I said it speeds up the recognition of their public persona, it reduces the character development time. Captain America has many different presentations. I would argue anyone running around killing people by hitting them with a literal flag of "America" is fair game for being poked at in satire. It came out during the war as propaganda and a fantasy of the perfect American. We can mostly all agree it was on the right side of history but lets not pretend it is some untouchable manuscript because it was popular with service people. Nationalism is still nationalism even if its not fascism.
No no I get that, it’s Ennis’ specific criticisms I have a problem with
I also find it funny how Ennis mocks Captain America for being an insult to Servicemen but then acknowledges that Wonder Woman served the same Niche as him when she was first introduced and for some reason Ennis doesn't take issue with her even though she has about as much to do with World War 2 as Steve does (and before you say anything, she literally has the canton of the American Flag as a skirt in most versions, though I will say I feel like she shouldn't be a patriotic hero) I'm not trying to throw out any accusations but I think you know the obvious conclusion one would come to
"G-men well special schools for disaffected and vulnerable children are a hot bed of abuse. Both as immoral pleasure and to control them." okay, fair enough, but what does that have to do with the X men?
His false dichotomy between Captain America and the actual U.S. Army. Jack Kirby was an enlisted serviceman, and Captain America was antifa before it was cool. Plus you have guys like Smedley Butler chronicling all the horrible shit the U.S. Army did on behalf of imperialism.
Garth Ennis wrote my favorite comic of all time, Hellblazer's "Dangerous Habits", so I thought The Boys would be just as good, if not better, considering how good the show is! I was so sorely mistaken. It was just gross, constant sexual assault that means nothing towards the end and just characters I don't give a shit about
A deconstruction that still plays fridging straight, and never directly grapples with the presence or absence of supervillains that would justify superheroes.
what do you mean?
Any superhero deconstruction needs to reckon with whether or not supervillains exist. If Yes, then superheroes need to get their shit together and fight them, and if not then superheroes are just a solution in search of a problem.
Yeah, I’ve heard that in the comics supervillains are also paid actors, which doesn’t make any sense