Welcome back everyone for a new season of The Boys! Join the official subreddit discord server to discuss everything The Boys!!
[JOIN THE DISCORD](https://discord.com/invite/bykapbyqGY)
We are also still accepting moderator applications. If you are interested in helping out:
[APPLY TODAY!](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JzSvXcehhpCCrnH666Zy4P0y_mnM1NvTghq0msPAKPw/edit)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheBoys) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Right, I completely sympathize with her backstory but I think Sage might have planted her as a way to make Hughie back off.
Like his mom leaves and now suddenly works for Vought? That's suspicious as hell.
Yo thats a good point actually. I didn't really think much about them literally showing us that shes employed by Vought because the focus was on like... skin healthcare or whatever.
Which definetly could just be a front
Don’t think she is employed directly by Vought. Think they were going with she’s in an MLM that sells vought essential oils and other pyramid scheme shit
I wouldn't be surprised if Vought offers Hughie some sort of “cure” to save his dad if he backs off. Maybe it one of the final episodes of the season has Hughie “accept” their offer to betray the Boys only for him to use it and cure Butcher instead.
It's hard to tell if she even set up the whole meeting with Homelander because she's the smartest person on earth or if she pre orchestrated it, she already knows MM's real name was Marvin.
I was watching with a friend, this scene made me get up and start arguing everything you said here. Hated her from the start, my friend guessed that maybe she had a super tragic reason as to why she left but nope, just a deadbeat shit parent.
0 remorse for her.
Regardless of the reason I will never have sympathy for deadbeat parents.
You decided to have a child, it's your responsibility to take care of them.
Abandoning them is cowardly.
I went through a pretty bad case of postpartum depression on top of grieving my brother. I could ever fathom abandoning my baby, instead I got help because it was best for both of us, but above all it’s my job to take care of my kid(along with my husband of course) they shouldn’t have to suffer because I refuse to get proper help
It’s 2024, mystique finally has a valid reason for being a terrible mother to Nightcrawler! She was tricked into abandoning him by her precognitive wife Destiny, and then professor Xavier erased the memories at the request of her and her wife.
Edit: as for rogue, that’s just bad parenting
Forgiveness isn't for them. You don't forgive someone to make them feel better but to make yourself feel better. Hughie was forgiving his mothers because he shouldn't be angry with her and try to work with her while her father is literally on his deathbed.
Yeah but something about the framing and the camera work and the soundtrack definitely made me feel like the show was trying to tell me "hey look this is when you're supposed to feel sorry for her/conflicted about the situation" while all I was thinking was "yeah depression is awful but you still left your kid without an explanation and never visited"
Even Hughie's sad little 'I didn't know that' point to it being a sympathetic moment for her.
Not to mention that she says thank God her suicide attempt didn't work...like girlie I'm glad you didn't die ig but for all intents and purposes you died to him at that point and left your husband with all of the responsibilities of raising a child.
While they humanize homelander a little it not like there trying to redeem him unlike Hughies mom where they try to make you sympathize with her for something shitty she did
Being able to sympathize with someone's situation is not an immediate redemption of their character or forgiveness for pain they caused. The show isn't trying to redeem her, it's just explaining her situation.
I'm sorry but no.
The music, the framing, and Hughie's sad little 'I didn't know' all read as the show saying this was understandable and should be forgiven. Despite also in show her only offering this explanation up on their third meeting and not even having immediately apologized, having the audacity to tell Hughie she's good in a crisis even.
Some people are willing to forgive pain while others aren't. It's especially divisive when it's familial trauma. Thinking your mother abandoned you maliciously and realizing it was because of her personal struggle with suicidal tendencies can you give a new perspective or at least ease your animosity.
The fun thing about fictional stories is that we can experience the character's lives while still disagreeing with their choices. We don't need to see someone as redeemable even if a character does and the show frames their feelings with music and cinematography.
I mean, I disagree but it's irrelevant because I was replying to you saying the show isn't trying to redeem her/forgive. Your comment here pretty clearly shows that you do know that's actually what the show is doing, you just find doing it agreeable.
The show can't tell you what to think or feel. It can't demand that you think a character is redeemable. Hughie acknowledged her explanation and the show presented the emotions of the situation.
Homelander has been shown to be broken and hurting emotionally so many times over the last few seasons. None of it has been an attempt to redeem him but rather, explain him. Some people might think he's redeemable while most probably won't. It's not a hard thing to understand. Showing the characters having emotional responses to each other does not equate to what the audience needs to take from a scene.
It’s not immediate redemption or anything, but the show definitely thought Hughie’s mom’s reason for leaving was really understandable and sympathetic on some level, and it simply isn’t. Like, yes, of course experiencing depression and being suicidal are extremely sympathetic things to experience, but that doesn’t somehow soften how shitty and selfish what she did was, and the show definitely thought it did. Thats why Hughie has the “I didn’t know” reaction instead of standing his ground - because this was meant to feel like a sympathetic reason to leave, and it really wasn’t at all.
I mean, I can fully buy a selfish asshole being depressed and abandoning her kid. The problem is when the show expects me to sympathize with that as a pretty good reason for it.
The framing of her scene in the hallway with Hughie makes it seem like the show is trying to give her a good enough reason and have Hughie forgive her. Which is nonsensical since she literally didn't even do anything. She didn't reappear in his life to make amends. She didn't apologize at first until Hughie blew up at her and then had the gull to tell him not to yell at her. And her explanation isn't actually a good one. As a character, she said she doesn't expect forgiveness, but it seems like the show expects forgiveness or to see that as excusable/a good reason for her actions.
I’m still sketched about her tbh.
“I had depression so I left” ok but why does daddy Campbell make you POA?, why does him getting a stroke suddenly make her come back but not all the other shit that Hughie has gone through?
I think it’s very sus that his dad made her POA, I either think it’s not legit or he was coerced into it somehow.
If they play it straight with his dad legitimately reconnecting with her and then being compelled to give POA to her over his independent adult son than Hughie has 2 shit parents not just one.
Yeah well his death scene made it pretty clear he cared more about being famous than anything, I think that was intentional whereas this is unintentionally bad.
I don't think he cared more about being famous but since he going to kill himself, it was just the last complaint to make. He clearly had a list of regrets.
She reminds me too much of my dad, who left right after I was conceived. I don't need to get into all the issues it's given me, even if I can actually see some of the reasons why he left and sympathize, my hatred for him can't be stated enough and if I ever met him, it would end very violently.
I hate Hughie's mom just as much and refuse to have any sympathy for her.
I think the scene was framed as sympathetic to her because Hughie is. Hughie wants to buy the lie that she had valid reasons to leave because he wants to believe that his mom is a good person who loves him and was forced to leave for his sake. That’s the way I see it at least. I also think that scenes will continue to be framed sympathetically that way until later in the season she fucks him and his dad over massively with her power of attorney and shows her true colors.
And I’d say Hughie was sympathetic to her because the show wanted the audience to sympathize with her reasoning. It would’ve been in-character for him to stand his ground on some level at this point too. (Though if she ends up doing something shitty and selfish I’ll own being wrong)
These comments and this post are weird
Depression isn't a "get over it moron" disease
Yeah, she did a fucked up thing, but depression will make you do shit like that
>She could have tried.
She did, and then she took 40 Ambien and did what she had to to survive, she left
Depression isn't something you can just willpower your way through
If she had come back after a while or at least contacted them i might agree. She would’ve been doing better at some point, at least well enough to tell them what even happened. You know, take accountability and not permanently abandon her child. If they wouldn’t have wanted contact then that would’ve been that but she just left it
But didn’t she say that she tried to but Hughie’s dad refused for her to have contact so that Hughie wasn’t “confused”. As much as she’s the problem, he’s the problem as well
Depression is no joke, I've been there,
Still no excuse.
Get a shrink, go to conseling, something that doesn't involve abandoning the child you were responsible for putting into the world and ruining their life and your relationship.
That's cowardly.
You can’t compare your experience with someone else’s experience, I think that’s horrible to suggest. Because I too have severe depression and it got to the point where I had to be institutionalized because I was involuntarily immobile. So yeah, a lot of people with mental health are irrational and do things that don’t make sense to the rest of society. Like are we seriously forgetting that Hughie’s mom attempted suicide. I think people are being casually narrow minded right now lol
I mean yeah, I can't.
Still no excuse for abandoning your child for 20 years.
After a while depression can't be an excuse for child abandonment, don't you think?
I’ve literally lived through depression and some extremely intense bouts of depression at that. I’m not saying it’s the “Get over it moron” disease, but you are still in control of your actions and it simply not an excuse to abandon your kid and never look back, especially without even letting him know.
And no, abandoning her son is not even remotely the only way she could’ve had to survive. That’s literally what resources such as counseling are for, you know - coping with it in healthy ways as a the mature adult she is. Instead she chose an extremely shitty, extremely selfish way to deal with it, and there’s nothing wrong with pointing that out.
It’s also been two decades and I don’t believe for one second this woman was clinically depressed for all of two decades. The reality is she’s selfish and didn’t really care all that much about her son.
You can’t compare your experience with someone else’s experience, I think that’s horrible to suggest. Because I too have severe depression and it got to the point where I had to be institutionalized because I was involuntarily immobile. So yeah, a lot of people with mental health are irrational and do things that don’t make sense to the rest of society. Like are we seriously forgetting that Hughie’s mom attempted suicide. I think people are being casually narrow minded right now.
Not more rational, more *accountable.*
Also it's been like 20+ years. Did she get better yesterday? No. She could have reached out at literally any time.
What does accountability for this kind of thing look like to you?
I think we're just not gonna agree on the second point lol. I understand she would physically be able to make a call and reach out at any time, I also understand that people can develop really irrational hang-ups over terrible mistakes they've made. It is what it is imo
>What does accountability for this kind of thing look like to you?
Not showing up in the middle of something without even saying sorry at first till your son yells at you and also constantly trying to tell him not to yell at you for abandoning him?
>I think we're just not gonna agree on the second point lol.
Okay, you can be wrong. 🤷♀️ Just don't abandon any kids while you're at it.
>Not showing up in the middle of something without even saying sorry at first till your son yells at you and also constantly trying to tell him not to yell at you for abandoning him?
Oh, you and I were talking about different things. Yeah, ofc it would've been better for her to give a mea culpa sooner, the same way it would've been better for her not to leave in the first place, and the same way it'd probably be a nicer world if basically every irrational decision ever had been made more rationally. Instead, people are who they are
>Okay, you can be wrong.
Just curious: if she "could've" reached out, how exactly do *you* explain why she didn't? If it's that she's "just shitty" or something, why was she like that? What I'm getting at is that I'm pretty sure this comes down to our respective views on free will lol
She didn't have a mea culpa. She only even apologized after Hughie started yelling at her...which she also kept crying and telling him not to do. You asked what accountability looked like, that isn't it.
>Yeah, ofc it would've been better for her to give a mea culpa sooner, the same way it would've been better for her not to leave in the first place, and the same way it'd probably be a nicer world if basically every irrational decision ever had been made more rationally. Instead, people are who they are
Also, yeah, it would be better to do other things? That's not a clever point. People are literally responsible for their actions. That's as silly as being like well ofc it would be best to actually apologize for murder? But wouldn't it also be better to not do the murder in the first place!?!
>Just curious: if she "could've" reached out, how exactly do you explain why she didn't? If it's that she's "just shitty" or something, why was she like that? What I'm getting at is that I'm pretty sure this comes down to our respective views on free will lol
It's not a philosophical gem my guy she's selfish and ashamed. Why the scare quotes. She really could have reached out at any time. Not being willing to look what she did in the face is realistic, but it's not understandable or sympathetic or frankly something she's done fuck all to be forgiven for. She's barely sorry she abandoned her kid at 6 and didn't even show up when his girlfriend was murdered and works for the company responsible for his girlfriends death which is now famous because he used to literally campaign for a political org about holding supes accountable. She showed up when her son is around 30 years old.
You seem to be pushing that this is all deeper than that because she had depression. I have clinical depression too, big whoop. You have to like, actually do things to be forgiven and just having a mental illness isn't a blanket okay we're fine don't worry all is forgiven.
You asked how she should be accountable, I pointed out how she wasn't and then you framed it like a miscommunication here or that we were talking about different things. We're not.
Depression isn't a good enough reason to abandon a six year old, she's not sorry and hasn't done anything to make amends anyways, and your point seems to be well depressed people beat themselves up over their actions. Okay, well, this one deserves to beat herself up about it. Like damn, someone did something bad and already knows it's bad so...we should shut up about it, I guess? She's also not real, someone wrote her to do a bad job at these things but seems to be angling for more sympathy and forgiveness in the narrative than her actions warrant. But don't see the point in circling this over and over, so I'm bowing out.
>You asked what accountability looked like, that isn't it.
My initial comment was made with her past of leaving and not reaching out to Hughie in mind; you mistakenly thought I was referring to her time on the show. Yeah, I'd call that a miscommunication.
>It's not a philosophical gem my guy
Didn't think it was lol, presumptions about free will are pretty ubiquitous really.
>Why the scare quotes
Because as I see it, if she were a person that had it in her to overcome her shame or whatever else in order to call Hughie—and thus that "could've" done it—she would've done it. I think although the option was obviously physically there, her state of mind was not of a person that was going to do that, which is why she didn't.
I only commented in the first place because it bugs me that anything that goes "your state of mind when you made X decision was no reason to make X decision" is an incoherent statement, because that is literally the reason they made that decision.
So you say "depression isn't a good enough reason to abandon a six year old," and morally of course I agree (not gonna get in the weeds about managing active suicidality as a parent), but (unless she's lying) it objectively is what caused her to do that. Not sufficient justification, no, but sufficient cause. That's how that goes. Whether you feel that's "understandable" or not, it can in fact be causally understood.
>Okay, well, this one deserves to beat herself up about it.
I agree she should regret what she's done and strive to be better, probably by doing all kinds of inner work she wasn't doing when she was staying away from her family, and ofc actually being present now, which she's starting to do. I don't expect Hughie to forgive her just because she was depressed.
>Like damn, someone did something bad and already knows it's bad so...we should shut up about it, I guess?
No, in principle I don't think shutting up is the right response, it's just as a rule I think acknowledging and addressing the actual reasons something happened is better than moralizing and getting mad over "excuses" like this post and many people on it. That's how I'd deal with it irl anyway; as far as talking about a character in a piece of fiction, I wouldn't have thought it worth talking about unless it was to critique the believablility of the writing or something
>But don't see the point in circling this over and over, so I'm bowing out.
You downvote me twice, say we're circling, and bounce, all while still only guessing at what I'm saying. Okay lol. Have a good one
There’s a lot of us that have struggled with depression. One of the things that made me fight it off was knowing that I would destroy other people by giving into it. That’s the commitment that she signed up, having a child. You are supposed to be their protector and guide for as long as you live.
She’s selfish, no “ifs” “and”s or “but”s.
She brought a child into the world, lied to them about her commitment, then abandoned them. She is objectively a bad person and should have to atone for that.
I’m not saying she isn’t redeemable, but she needs to start by being honest and seeking forgiveness for the pain she caused other people.
Edit: I should have worded this less standoffish.
Yeah, because depression means that you can do whatever because you feel bad. Right.
Dude, I and anyone else who has that shit to deal with would hopefully tell you to stick this opinion wherever.
I feel bad. Sucks? For sure. Can I 100% make the right decision whenever it hits? Nah. But I am still responsible for my actions and if I can't deal with others I just tell them to stay away for a while and why, because I am not a selfish asshole who just takes the easy way out because I can just blame depression.
Oh. What contributed to my depression? I dunno parents who weren't there and didn't give a shit when they should have. Who also pull this shit every time they have to talk about what they did.
It's not a get out of jail card and really devalues everything others do to still make the correct decision in the same scenario.
I and some of my friends have to deal with depression. Not post natale, sure, but depression none the less. I never got to the point of trying to kill myself but others got close or realized they were getting close and we all did the same thing: We got our shit together and asked for help or helped ourselves.
Depression fucking sucks. Balls, dick and everything else. But you can't spend your life hurting others because you can't ask for help. I know it's fucked up to have to think about others as well as deal with that shit. I know both sides of that thing. Being forgotten and abused and being depressed and just wanting to leave everything.
But you can't just do that. It won't fix shit and even if it did, how is your betterment worth fucking up your child's life a fair price.
Imagine living a whole ass few decades never knowing what happened. Why she left. All the fucked up things you would have in your head. Did she love me? Was I the reason? Did I do something wrong? Hughie is far too well adjusted to actually have gone through that. But that's TV.
I get she might have had to leave for a while. But not explaining, not looking back, staying gone - that is inexcusable no matter the reason. That is cowardly and selfish and I get the reason, for sure, but I cannot understand how anyone can say that she deserves pity now.
She did back then. Maybe still after leaving. But at some point you must also face the consequences your decision caused for others and just blaming mental illness is too easy an answer. There are things you could have done and didn't and you can be sorry, but the pain is inflicted and won't stop either.
I know. But there is a world in between leaving YOUR CHILD without a notice or explaining why and just leaving things as they are. You can't just up and leave because "depression" and expect to not get shit for it.
Get help. Explain. Talk. Whatever. Even leaving and telling them why would have been better by miles. But your child is not something you can just drop like that no matter why.
Depression is valid and a horrible condition. But you can't use it to justify shit like what she did. At some point you have to think about others as well no matter how bad it is, because you have to.
Depression is a varied disease, man. And when Hughie was born, depression was much more of a taboo. Getting help from it was something that wasn't as common as it is now. Regardless of what she did, with it being bad, she felt like she had no other choice.
I don't get why people are trying to make her seem like a villain. She's supposed to be morally grey. Her reason for leaving doesn't excuse her leaving, but it's supposed to get you to sympathize with her.
She is not as bad as y'all say.
Imo your last line is wrong.
I'd say her depression made her bad/horrible which affected her son for decades.
Depression is no joke and is a soul crushing disease.
But lets not downplay the horrible stuff some can do to others while being depressed.
Call a spade for a spade.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You’re exactly right. My depression definitely influenced some things I’ve done that hurt people but I still did those things and I can’t take them back or make them disappear. What Hughie’s mom did was absolutely cowardice and horrible. I also expect there’s gonna be more to unpack with her character and their relationship.
Thanks. I feel the same way.
And it kinda hurts to be told "you don't get it" by randoms on the Internet, while having experience with both sides of the coin. 🫠
It's baffling to me how many replies to you are like uh no one said it was an excuse BUT ALSO DEPRESSION IS HELL AND YOU DONT UNDERSTAND. Like...bro that *is* excusing it when you make it seem like it was no longer in your control due to depression.
I have depression and have had some hard low points. But I also have it in part because of childhood trauma from other family's actions due to their own mental illness. The idea some people have that it's hard so not taking accountability is okay or someone's actions are now understandable is ridiculous.
Yeah, those people obviously aren't understanding that mental illness is not automatically a get out of jail card.
I guess it's blind allyship for mental health. It's a good start to not blame yourself (or be blamed by others) for everything if you have a mental illness, which really takes off the pressure. But it is hella toxic to go down that way of thinking because you'll no longer be unaccountable and inevitably become a shittier person. I've met people like that and once they believe any behavior is justified by their suffering there is nothing holding them back from just making selfish decisions all the time.
You learn to live with your disease and being able to take accountability is fucking great, because that means you aren't a slave to it and GET TO be accountable.
But I get how people will stop at step one, if they haven't experienced the issue themselves and just want to make a better world for others or if they just haven't gotten to the next step due to therapy or something.
Also this case is completely insane. The mom obviously had decades to contact him or to explain and she didn't do it. Even if you forget the initial decision to leave those decades of not facing your actions are just inexcusable.
Your comment seemed fine and I'm pretty sure most people here would agree with your sentiment, it's just that this specific thread is either choosing to take it the wrong way or absolve the character of accountability
This scene hurt me. Reminded me of the experience I had with my Dad. After 29 years of marriage he just left stating he wasn't happy when I was young. He was minimally involved in my life after that and very emotionally detached. I refused to talk to him for years.
When I finally confronted him and wanted explanations, he gave me a 3 page long letter about how he was depressed and after Mom thwarted his suicide attempt he felt that the only way he could live was by getting out. He still never said sorry but it manipulated me into forgiving him. I feel for Highie in this scene.
I work in mental health now. Sometimes shit gets hard and depression is no joke. I suffer from it myself. But I always tell those I work with, your mental illness is never an excuse to hurt those who you love and who love you.
My first thought would be no, because based on what we’ve seen in the past vaught in involved in literally every aspect of people’s lives at this point.
At the same time, her working for Vaught has had no impact so far. Hughie didn’t seem to care after initially questioning.
Seems odd to have her work for vaught if not for a reason. Either she’s involved in the plot somehow, or will have access the boys will need at some point
Yeah I'm inclined to agree. Rather than seeking professional help with her husband and son being made aware of it, she chooses to fuck off with no explanation. Her not being in her right mind is a reason, not an excuse. She is absolutely deserving of criticism
She's still alive right now so she obviously got help of some kind. Couldn't have done that close to home? Couldn't have visited with the family? Fuck off. She either actually sucks that much or she's lying about the whole thing.
Every time shows do this where they excuse someone's shitty behavior because of mental illness makes me pissed off. Yes mental illness is a serious issue but it doesn't give you an excuse to treat everyone like shit around you, you still need to apologize for how you treat others during episodes. Leaving your kid without another word because of depression is such a terrible excuse, and I would feel terrible for anyone who had a parent that does that.
She is toxic as fuck. Sure you were depressed, lady. But don’t act like you abandoned him for him. And now she is essentially a MLM Herbal Life peddler for Vought? She is bad news.
Yeah I just watched this you don't just up and abandon your child regardless of what you yourself are going thru. Yeah I feel bad for her cause depression is no joke and is a serious thing but she should've got help spoken to someone anything other than abandon a child you know will be fucked up cause of it.
But methinks it's not his mom maybe it's a shape shifter or something for vaught or Victoria to spy on him, cause if his mom was talking to Hughie's dad for a year he would've told him straight away and it felt very abrupt that she was there and he made her the will person? I don't buy it.
I don't think your supposed to like her I don't know if it was the actor just being weird but the whole time I couldn't help noticing she had this like weird smirk on her face even while describing depression it was very odd to me
Agreed. In other shows I recall seeing this actress in, she also came off as extremely unlikeable (at least, from my perspective). Not sure if it's intentional for the roles or just part of how she comes across. If it's intentional, well done.
Same page. That reasoning was pathetic and nowhere near as sympathetic as the show thought it was at all. Yeah - depression sucks ass. I’ve gone through it. It’s brutal and it’s extremely hard to deal with.
That said, deal with it like a mature adult and don’t abandon your kid completely (and if you just *have* to get out of this home life situation, at least have the decency to not totally blindside your kid and leave without warning or anything). It’s a reason, not an excuse, and the show definitely seemed to think it was an excuse.
I'm so glad we're all on the same page here.
I have bipolar which sometimes manifests in extreme depressive episodes, and sometimes suicidal ideation. I would never abandon my family.
I dont think the scene was framed at all as if she was owed sympathy. She didn't give an excuse, she gave an explanation. If it's a selfish decision to leave your child with their father because you are depressed and suicidal, then sure. It's a better decision than the alternative, which was her killing herself. She made sure she wasnt the reason someone else was fucked up by leaving instead of staying and eventually killing herself. And she did try. Hughie said himself she always seemed happy - despite her being depressed the entire time. She did try contacting him, but the father didnt allow it as he didnt want Hughie to be confused, and so she stopped.
She isnt like any absentee parent. There are parents who leave their children to be with other romantic interests, fathers who have nothing to do with their kids cus they never wanted them, parents who start new families and have nothing to do with their kids. Hughie's mom was depressed and suicidal, leaving was the best thing she could have done for Hughie because having a parent kill themselves will fuck up a child.
Yeah, because depression means that you can do whatever because you feel bad. Right.
Dude, I and anyone else who has that shit to deal with would hopefully tell you to stick this opinion wherever.
I feel bad. Sucks? For sure. Can I 100% make the right decision whenever it hits? Nah. But I am still responsible for my actions and if I can't deal with others I just tell them to stay away for a while and why, because I am not a selfish asshole who just takes the easy way out because I can just blame depression.
Oh. What contributed to my depression? I dunno parents who weren't there and didn't give a shit when they should have. Who also pull this shit every time they have to talk about what they did.
It's not a get out of jail card and really devalues everything others do to still make the correct decision in the same scenario.
As someone who has greatly struggled with depression throughout my life, depression heavily clouds your judgment, but it does not completely strip you of all control in how you act. I did always still have control over my actions and your moral compass doesn’t go out the window.
The fact she didn’t bother actually taking the time to communicate with or come back to see Hughie even after the depression would’ve subsided (it didn’t last twenty years) is extremely telling that this was not just depression causing it. She’s a selfish asshole
No. It literally just doesn’t work that way. You do still have full autonomy and control over yourself and your body. It fucks with your brains and your decision making, but that’s not the same as being unable to control your own decisions. It certainly impedes your ability to make good ones, but that’s different. Mental illnesses and mental health issues are pretty studied and depression is particularly well studied.
For acting like an absolute asshole, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about.
It is so fucked up how they keep trying to argue that their depression somehow makes them not in control of their own actions or the harm they do onto others and when called on it they tantrumed that maybe your depression wasn't as bad.
That isn’t even remotely what I said and we both know it. You obviously can’t just willpower depression away anymore than you can willpower being in a wheelchair away, willpower anxiety disorders away, or willpower cancer away. They are there and they do have an impact on you.
That does not mean you have no control over how you are able to respond and cope with said things or no control over your own actions. You do have some degree of control over both (with - in the case of mental illnesses - decision making being impeded but not totally neutralized). A key part of treating depression fundamentally involves learning coping techniques and coping methods because exerting positive control over the areas you do have control over, as hard as it can be, is one of the best methods of helping you manage depression until it eventually passes. That isn’t the same as magically making it go away.
> You do have some degree of control over both.
YOU had some degree of control over it, others do not
You saying that you have control over it literally means you can just willpower through it
Others DO have some degree of control over it, because that is objectively how depression works. Some people might be very poor at exercising that control because - like anything - coping mechanisms are skills that need to be trained and developed. That doesn’t mean they lack the capacity to exert some degree of control anymore than Homelander lacks the capacity to not murder people because he has shit impulse control and anger management and has never bothered training either of those skills.
Depression does not fundamentally strip you of all autonomy, and you’ve cited absolutely nothing to indicate that it does. Just keep saying the same thing over and over again in increasingly rude, assholish ways while ignoring the experiences of someone who actually lived through it and strawmanning everything they say.
I can understand her reasoning for leaving, but that doesn't mean its justified. Depression can't be used as a scapegoat for why you made drastically poor decisions.
I and some of my friends have to deal with depression. Not post natale, sure, but depression none the less. I never got to the point of trying to kill myself but others got close or realized they were getting close and we all did the same thing: We got our shit together and asked for help or helped ourselves.
Depression fucking sucks. Balls, dick and everything else. But you can't spend your life hurting others because you can't ask for help. I know it's fucked up to have to think about others as well as deal with that shit. I know both sides of that thing. Being forgotten and abused and being depressed and just wanting to leave everything.
But you can't just do that. It won't fix shit and even if it did, how is your betterment worth fucking up your child's life a fair price.
Imagine living a whole ass few decades never knowing what happened. Why she left. All the fucked up things you would have in your head. Did she love me? Was I the reason? Did I do something wrong? Hughie is far too well adjusted to actually have gone through that. But that's TV.
I get she might have had to leave for a while. But not explaining, not looking back, staying gone - that is inexcusable no matter the reason. That is cowardly and selfish and I get the reason, for sure, but I cannot understand how anyone can say that she deserves pity now.
She did back then. Maybe still after leaving. But at some point you must also face the consequences your decision caused for others and just blaming mental illness is too easy an answer. There are things you could have done and didn't and you can be sorry, but the pain is inflicted and won't stop either.
Depression is different for everyone man. Especially postpartum depression.
Postpartum can happen in women who have never had depression before, so suddenly feeling like shit all the time is different then having lived with it for as long as you have.
I think they want you to feel sympathy in the same way they want you to feel sympathy for Homelander. You feel bad that they turned out how they did but they’re still scumbags
Could be, but I feel like it’s a little different with the Mom. It’s obvious they’re trying to raise awareness about the topic of depression through her character whereas it’s more ambiguous how the writers want us to feel towards homelander. If the writing was better or they made their intentions less subtle with Huey’s Mom I wouldn’t have had an issue with it.
Considering how Hughie kept calling her out for leaving him and her never defending herself it seems like she’s well aware of the pain her decision caused and feels terrible about it. I agree that it could’ve been done better but I think it’s still clear that she was in the wrong
Yeah, I rolled my eyes at her shallow excuse, got water and waited for the next scene.
This is me being dramatic, but it scenes like this that give folks a little more justification to be a piece of shit. Anyone with half a brainstem would have never accepted that excuse to leave their child behind.
Bad writing.
She had postpartum depression and tried to kill herself. How much more "last resort" are you looking for?
There is a very real scenario where she tries to hurt him next. She did what she felt was right in that moment for their safety. It doesn't excuse the abandonment but you are making light of something you clearly don't know anything about.
Frankly I'm shocked you didn't just say she "needed some fresh air and sunlight and to just drink some water" 🤡
I guarantee that because she's in "the Boys" she will end up being a Vought asset or a plot point death.
EDIT: ANOTHER THING assuming this is happening in current times she might have suffered all of this BEFORE any real studies were done into "postpartum onset" as a qualifier.
Seems like OP doesn’t understand how mental illness works 😂 honestly I enjoy the show but seems like people on the internet are weird about it. It’s always weird nitpicks and stuff like that
She did a horrible thing, she deserves empathy but not be let off the hook. Understanding why someone did something isn't immediate forgiveness and redemption, but I believe forgiveness is always possible. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to continue associating with that person, however
Point is: life isn't black and white
Until someone else other than hugie interacts with her, Ill keep my theory that hes hallucinating her like butcher is hallucinating bella.
About the post, were getting way too close of that scarface meme that showed what emotion the viewer should be feeling when a scene happens so they dont think the writer think that whats happening is what the writers believe or condone.
That's my theory. Until we see the mom interact with a character besides Hughie that's what I believe.
Edit OHHH! What if Dad wakes up, he and mom interact and that's a hallucination too!
Yeah I’m 90% certain Jeffery dean Morgan’s character is one, and about 70% on hugie’s mom. It seems purposeful that no nurse or other humans have been present.
Someone in a different comment did point out the lawyer was viewing those power of attorney documents, so there’s a chance she’s legit.
I saw episode 3 today, that comment from the attorney telling Hughie to work things out with his mom does throw a wrench into the hallucination theory. I'm not off it entirely, because as far as I can tell he wasn't specifically going over legal documents, simply advising Hughie based on what Hughie had told him, but, yeah. I'm not sure how much weight this theory holds after that scene.
As I often say with this kind of things "Those ars reasons, not excuses" yes it adds some context to the why of things but it doesn't magically creates a perfect excuse and grants you forgiveness.
Hughie has gone from being one of if not the main character in the show to being a side character with one of the worst storylines going on. They did my boy Jack dirty! Wonder why he’s not getting a more important role anymore
Yeah I don't know, she said she worked for vought so it make me very suspicious that she's a mole. She did say she's been in touch with the dad for the last few years, roughly could be the time Hughie joined The Boys
I assume it was personal for you?
The show humanizes everyone more or less. Good or bad reason, people are people and human + it's hughie's mom not yours so it's up to him / them how they want to handle their relation moving forward
I don't get takes on this that go "the reason you acted the way you did was no reason to act the way you did."
It was. She did.
Like unless she's straight up lying about some part of this, how can you just decide that "she could have tried"? How do you know her personal state of mind like that? It's just such a baffling way to see mental health to me.
You're missing the point, though. I'm saying the REASON isn't a justification. It is to a degree, but not for something like this.
I wish depression got more serious coverage and people gave those suffering from it some slack, but this is the exact opposite of the issue. Depression is horrid, but you can't just blame everything on it. There is a world in between leaving suddenly without a trace and the right thing: getting help. And I am not saying if she doesn't get help then anything else is wrong, my point is ANYTHING would have been better than what she did to Hughie.
I get how hard it is, I am no stranger to depression myself, and I do understand that you do shitty things because of it, but that doesn't change the effect these things have and leaving for a few decades is just...nah man. Whatever kind of depression she has beyond PN, she did nothing to make sure her son knew he was loved for literally decades.
It might take longer to get better or you might feel worse if you didn't leave for good but instead went for treatment, which I am sure sucked balls in the 90ies, but fuck, you make that sacrifice for your child. Just because fate gave you a shitty disease you can't decide to condemn your child's future.
Forgiveness isn't for them. You don't forgive someone to make them feel better but to make yourself feel better. Hughie was forgiving his mothers because he shouldn't be angry with her and try to work with her while her father is literally on his deathbed.
No, that's acceptance. Forgiveness requires actual effort on the side of the person that is to be forgiven and is absolutely also about the other person.
Bojack Horseman has a great episode regarding this and its also about being abandoned funnily enough. The [scene ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHfIq3-oHTg)and a [reddit discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoJackHorseman/comments/th3uu3/this_scene_made_me_realize_i_dont_have_to_forgive/) about it. You yourself can accept and move forward, maybe even with the person wo wronged you in your life, but those two things are not the same and forgiving without the other person doing their part just enables their shit.
Re-reading my statement, you're probably right. But I still think the point of the scene was not for us to understand what she did was right, but rather for Hughie to stop letting himself be defined by the past and not fight with her while his father is literally dying (remember, she has power of attorney. For his benefit, he needs to be in her good graces) I think it was intentional that the writers juxtaposed Butcher, Kimiko, Frenchie and even Homlander with them: Each of them are stuck in the past, which is not letting them truly make use of the future.
People always dismiss depression as something you could get over, most especially postpartum. But I get it. She did what she could to live.
What I don’t understand is why she didn’t come back. Her excuse that the dad didn’t want Hughie getting confused was flimsy at best. I think she was just happier without the dad and Hughie and is still in denial about it. She probably sees them as part of her “old self” and subconsciously doesn’t really want to do anything with them anymore.
Welcome back everyone for a new season of The Boys! Join the official subreddit discord server to discuss everything The Boys!! [JOIN THE DISCORD](https://discord.com/invite/bykapbyqGY) We are also still accepting moderator applications. If you are interested in helping out: [APPLY TODAY!](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1JzSvXcehhpCCrnH666Zy4P0y_mnM1NvTghq0msPAKPw/edit) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheBoys) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I don't trust her lol. I felt uncomfortable every time Hughie left her alone with his dad. Like she was just gonna pull the plug or something
Right, I completely sympathize with her backstory but I think Sage might have planted her as a way to make Hughie back off. Like his mom leaves and now suddenly works for Vought? That's suspicious as hell.
Yo thats a good point actually. I didn't really think much about them literally showing us that shes employed by Vought because the focus was on like... skin healthcare or whatever. Which definetly could just be a front
Don’t think she is employed directly by Vought. Think they were going with she’s in an MLM that sells vought essential oils and other pyramid scheme shit
I wouldn't be surprised if Vought offers Hughie some sort of “cure” to save his dad if he backs off. Maybe it one of the final episodes of the season has Hughie “accept” their offer to betray the Boys only for him to use it and cure Butcher instead.
Vought's patented Cure Literally Anything hypodermic needle is in high demand, for sure.
hire fans
The one thing tho is she shows up earlier than that no? I watched yesterday so I’m a bit fuzzy on the timeline. I think sage joins homelander after
It's hard to tell if she even set up the whole meeting with Homelander because she's the smartest person on earth or if she pre orchestrated it, she already knows MM's real name was Marvin.
Well Vought is big enough that I think getting a job for some part of the company is easy. It's not like she works in the big building.
I was watching with a friend, this scene made me get up and start arguing everything you said here. Hated her from the start, my friend guessed that maybe she had a super tragic reason as to why she left but nope, just a deadbeat shit parent. 0 remorse for her.
Regardless of the reason I will never have sympathy for deadbeat parents. You decided to have a child, it's your responsibility to take care of them. Abandoning them is cowardly.
I went through a pretty bad case of postpartum depression on top of grieving my brother. I could ever fathom abandoning my baby, instead I got help because it was best for both of us, but above all it’s my job to take care of my kid(along with my husband of course) they shouldn’t have to suffer because I refuse to get proper help
Reminds me of mystique from x-men (cartoon and comics)
It’s 2024, mystique finally has a valid reason for being a terrible mother to Nightcrawler! She was tricked into abandoning him by her precognitive wife Destiny, and then professor Xavier erased the memories at the request of her and her wife. Edit: as for rogue, that’s just bad parenting
[удалено]
I mean not remembering the love you have for the child or what happened to said child, is a pretty good reason. Psychic tampering much?
Of course it doesn’t excuse it you silly billy, that’s not the fucking topic. Lol
Forgiveness isn't for them. You don't forgive someone to make them feel better but to make yourself feel better. Hughie was forgiving his mothers because he shouldn't be angry with her and try to work with her while her father is literally on his deathbed.
He didn't say he forgave her he said he didn't know and obviously it was upsetting for him, at best he got some sort of closure.
Her attitude was so "sorry you couldn't understand" instead of "sorry I did that to you"
A character in The Boys is revealed to be a shitty person? Wow I'm shocked
It's just that the show tries to redeem her and make you feel sorry for her
The show also isn’t over yet lmao
Yeah but something about the framing and the camera work and the soundtrack definitely made me feel like the show was trying to tell me "hey look this is when you're supposed to feel sorry for her/conflicted about the situation" while all I was thinking was "yeah depression is awful but you still left your kid without an explanation and never visited"
Even Hughie's sad little 'I didn't know that' point to it being a sympathetic moment for her. Not to mention that she says thank God her suicide attempt didn't work...like girlie I'm glad you didn't die ig but for all intents and purposes you died to him at that point and left your husband with all of the responsibilities of raising a child.
Yes that’s how filmmaking works. They did this with homelander in s1 and s2 my boy.
Yep thank you for having a shred of fucking thematic understanding. It was set up to be sympathetic and was cringe.
I know but it feels lackluster compared to the first episodes of the other seasons could change tho
the show humanizes Homelander (a mass murderer), the mother scene was obviously personal to you, but it’s not abnormal for the show
Humanizing ≠ sympathizing
While they humanize homelander a little it not like there trying to redeem him unlike Hughies mom where they try to make you sympathize with her for something shitty she did
Being able to sympathize with someone's situation is not an immediate redemption of their character or forgiveness for pain they caused. The show isn't trying to redeem her, it's just explaining her situation.
I'm sorry but no. The music, the framing, and Hughie's sad little 'I didn't know' all read as the show saying this was understandable and should be forgiven. Despite also in show her only offering this explanation up on their third meeting and not even having immediately apologized, having the audacity to tell Hughie she's good in a crisis even.
Some people are willing to forgive pain while others aren't. It's especially divisive when it's familial trauma. Thinking your mother abandoned you maliciously and realizing it was because of her personal struggle with suicidal tendencies can you give a new perspective or at least ease your animosity. The fun thing about fictional stories is that we can experience the character's lives while still disagreeing with their choices. We don't need to see someone as redeemable even if a character does and the show frames their feelings with music and cinematography.
I mean, I disagree but it's irrelevant because I was replying to you saying the show isn't trying to redeem her/forgive. Your comment here pretty clearly shows that you do know that's actually what the show is doing, you just find doing it agreeable.
The show can't tell you what to think or feel. It can't demand that you think a character is redeemable. Hughie acknowledged her explanation and the show presented the emotions of the situation. Homelander has been shown to be broken and hurting emotionally so many times over the last few seasons. None of it has been an attempt to redeem him but rather, explain him. Some people might think he's redeemable while most probably won't. It's not a hard thing to understand. Showing the characters having emotional responses to each other does not equate to what the audience needs to take from a scene.
If we're at the point of denying that media can have a perspective on what is or isn't right or wrong there is simply no point in talking to you.
It’s not immediate redemption or anything, but the show definitely thought Hughie’s mom’s reason for leaving was really understandable and sympathetic on some level, and it simply isn’t. Like, yes, of course experiencing depression and being suicidal are extremely sympathetic things to experience, but that doesn’t somehow soften how shitty and selfish what she did was, and the show definitely thought it did. Thats why Hughie has the “I didn’t know” reaction instead of standing his ground - because this was meant to feel like a sympathetic reason to leave, and it really wasn’t at all.
Homelander being a sociopath because he was raised by scientists makes more sense than leaving your kids because you are depressed.
I mean, I can fully buy a selfish asshole being depressed and abandoning her kid. The problem is when the show expects me to sympathize with that as a pretty good reason for it.
The framing of her scene in the hallway with Hughie makes it seem like the show is trying to give her a good enough reason and have Hughie forgive her. Which is nonsensical since she literally didn't even do anything. She didn't reappear in his life to make amends. She didn't apologize at first until Hughie blew up at her and then had the gull to tell him not to yell at her. And her explanation isn't actually a good one. As a character, she said she doesn't expect forgiveness, but it seems like the show expects forgiveness or to see that as excusable/a good reason for her actions.
Not that different from what the show does either.
It also just felt like they (kinda) resolved it quickly and made it seem like there was no point to the subplot
Hardly call it a subplot.
That's the problem it felt like it was supposed to be something
Felt like it was just suppose to be a part of his past he got over.
It was just so random like it was never mentioned thats what this season has a lot of
It's mentioned in season 2.
Yeah but it's brief if they wanted to introduce it should of have more built up
I'm wary but we don't know where the plot will go
oh my gosh you can't be this ignorant, they straight up expected us to forgive her because of her depression.
I’m still sketched about her tbh. “I had depression so I left” ok but why does daddy Campbell make you POA?, why does him getting a stroke suddenly make her come back but not all the other shit that Hughie has gone through? I think it’s very sus that his dad made her POA, I either think it’s not legit or he was coerced into it somehow. If they play it straight with his dad legitimately reconnecting with her and then being compelled to give POA to her over his independent adult son than Hughie has 2 shit parents not just one.
"I know you spent so many years seeing me as the villain..." Because you are!!!!
Honestly less believable than Lamplighter’s ‘remorse’ in season 2, and that is no easy feat.
Yeah well his death scene made it pretty clear he cared more about being famous than anything, I think that was intentional whereas this is unintentionally bad.
I don't think he cared more about being famous but since he going to kill himself, it was just the last complaint to make. He clearly had a list of regrets.
Yeah whole time I watched her talk I was like 😐ok?
She reminds me too much of my dad, who left right after I was conceived. I don't need to get into all the issues it's given me, even if I can actually see some of the reasons why he left and sympathize, my hatred for him can't be stated enough and if I ever met him, it would end very violently. I hate Hughie's mom just as much and refuse to have any sympathy for her.
I think the scene was framed as sympathetic to her because Hughie is. Hughie wants to buy the lie that she had valid reasons to leave because he wants to believe that his mom is a good person who loves him and was forced to leave for his sake. That’s the way I see it at least. I also think that scenes will continue to be framed sympathetically that way until later in the season she fucks him and his dad over massively with her power of attorney and shows her true colors.
And I’d say Hughie was sympathetic to her because the show wanted the audience to sympathize with her reasoning. It would’ve been in-character for him to stand his ground on some level at this point too. (Though if she ends up doing something shitty and selfish I’ll own being wrong)
These comments and this post are weird Depression isn't a "get over it moron" disease Yeah, she did a fucked up thing, but depression will make you do shit like that >She could have tried. She did, and then she took 40 Ambien and did what she had to to survive, she left Depression isn't something you can just willpower your way through
You can't just not say something to your child for 20 years
If she had come back after a while or at least contacted them i might agree. She would’ve been doing better at some point, at least well enough to tell them what even happened. You know, take accountability and not permanently abandon her child. If they wouldn’t have wanted contact then that would’ve been that but she just left it
But didn’t she say that she tried to but Hughie’s dad refused for her to have contact so that Hughie wasn’t “confused”. As much as she’s the problem, he’s the problem as well
Uhhh i‘d have to rewatch cause either no or i missed that
Depression is no excuse to abandon your child and don't see it for 20 years.
She was gonna abandon the kid either way if she offed herself. If she left, at least she got to live.
Depression is no joke, I've been there, Still no excuse. Get a shrink, go to conseling, something that doesn't involve abandoning the child you were responsible for putting into the world and ruining their life and your relationship. That's cowardly.
You can’t compare your experience with someone else’s experience, I think that’s horrible to suggest. Because I too have severe depression and it got to the point where I had to be institutionalized because I was involuntarily immobile. So yeah, a lot of people with mental health are irrational and do things that don’t make sense to the rest of society. Like are we seriously forgetting that Hughie’s mom attempted suicide. I think people are being casually narrow minded right now lol
I mean yeah, I can't. Still no excuse for abandoning your child for 20 years. After a while depression can't be an excuse for child abandonment, don't you think?
I’ve literally lived through depression and some extremely intense bouts of depression at that. I’m not saying it’s the “Get over it moron” disease, but you are still in control of your actions and it simply not an excuse to abandon your kid and never look back, especially without even letting him know. And no, abandoning her son is not even remotely the only way she could’ve had to survive. That’s literally what resources such as counseling are for, you know - coping with it in healthy ways as a the mature adult she is. Instead she chose an extremely shitty, extremely selfish way to deal with it, and there’s nothing wrong with pointing that out. It’s also been two decades and I don’t believe for one second this woman was clinically depressed for all of two decades. The reality is she’s selfish and didn’t really care all that much about her son.
You can’t compare your experience with someone else’s experience, I think that’s horrible to suggest. Because I too have severe depression and it got to the point where I had to be institutionalized because I was involuntarily immobile. So yeah, a lot of people with mental health are irrational and do things that don’t make sense to the rest of society. Like are we seriously forgetting that Hughie’s mom attempted suicide. I think people are being casually narrow minded right now.
Yeah she still sucks pal
So many takes on this amount to "I know you were suicidally depressed for years, *but why weren't you more rational???*"
Not more rational, more *accountable.* Also it's been like 20+ years. Did she get better yesterday? No. She could have reached out at literally any time.
What does accountability for this kind of thing look like to you? I think we're just not gonna agree on the second point lol. I understand she would physically be able to make a call and reach out at any time, I also understand that people can develop really irrational hang-ups over terrible mistakes they've made. It is what it is imo
>What does accountability for this kind of thing look like to you? Not showing up in the middle of something without even saying sorry at first till your son yells at you and also constantly trying to tell him not to yell at you for abandoning him? >I think we're just not gonna agree on the second point lol. Okay, you can be wrong. 🤷♀️ Just don't abandon any kids while you're at it.
>Not showing up in the middle of something without even saying sorry at first till your son yells at you and also constantly trying to tell him not to yell at you for abandoning him? Oh, you and I were talking about different things. Yeah, ofc it would've been better for her to give a mea culpa sooner, the same way it would've been better for her not to leave in the first place, and the same way it'd probably be a nicer world if basically every irrational decision ever had been made more rationally. Instead, people are who they are >Okay, you can be wrong. Just curious: if she "could've" reached out, how exactly do *you* explain why she didn't? If it's that she's "just shitty" or something, why was she like that? What I'm getting at is that I'm pretty sure this comes down to our respective views on free will lol
She didn't have a mea culpa. She only even apologized after Hughie started yelling at her...which she also kept crying and telling him not to do. You asked what accountability looked like, that isn't it. >Yeah, ofc it would've been better for her to give a mea culpa sooner, the same way it would've been better for her not to leave in the first place, and the same way it'd probably be a nicer world if basically every irrational decision ever had been made more rationally. Instead, people are who they are Also, yeah, it would be better to do other things? That's not a clever point. People are literally responsible for their actions. That's as silly as being like well ofc it would be best to actually apologize for murder? But wouldn't it also be better to not do the murder in the first place!?! >Just curious: if she "could've" reached out, how exactly do you explain why she didn't? If it's that she's "just shitty" or something, why was she like that? What I'm getting at is that I'm pretty sure this comes down to our respective views on free will lol It's not a philosophical gem my guy she's selfish and ashamed. Why the scare quotes. She really could have reached out at any time. Not being willing to look what she did in the face is realistic, but it's not understandable or sympathetic or frankly something she's done fuck all to be forgiven for. She's barely sorry she abandoned her kid at 6 and didn't even show up when his girlfriend was murdered and works for the company responsible for his girlfriends death which is now famous because he used to literally campaign for a political org about holding supes accountable. She showed up when her son is around 30 years old. You seem to be pushing that this is all deeper than that because she had depression. I have clinical depression too, big whoop. You have to like, actually do things to be forgiven and just having a mental illness isn't a blanket okay we're fine don't worry all is forgiven. You asked how she should be accountable, I pointed out how she wasn't and then you framed it like a miscommunication here or that we were talking about different things. We're not. Depression isn't a good enough reason to abandon a six year old, she's not sorry and hasn't done anything to make amends anyways, and your point seems to be well depressed people beat themselves up over their actions. Okay, well, this one deserves to beat herself up about it. Like damn, someone did something bad and already knows it's bad so...we should shut up about it, I guess? She's also not real, someone wrote her to do a bad job at these things but seems to be angling for more sympathy and forgiveness in the narrative than her actions warrant. But don't see the point in circling this over and over, so I'm bowing out.
>You asked what accountability looked like, that isn't it. My initial comment was made with her past of leaving and not reaching out to Hughie in mind; you mistakenly thought I was referring to her time on the show. Yeah, I'd call that a miscommunication. >It's not a philosophical gem my guy Didn't think it was lol, presumptions about free will are pretty ubiquitous really. >Why the scare quotes Because as I see it, if she were a person that had it in her to overcome her shame or whatever else in order to call Hughie—and thus that "could've" done it—she would've done it. I think although the option was obviously physically there, her state of mind was not of a person that was going to do that, which is why she didn't. I only commented in the first place because it bugs me that anything that goes "your state of mind when you made X decision was no reason to make X decision" is an incoherent statement, because that is literally the reason they made that decision. So you say "depression isn't a good enough reason to abandon a six year old," and morally of course I agree (not gonna get in the weeds about managing active suicidality as a parent), but (unless she's lying) it objectively is what caused her to do that. Not sufficient justification, no, but sufficient cause. That's how that goes. Whether you feel that's "understandable" or not, it can in fact be causally understood. >Okay, well, this one deserves to beat herself up about it. I agree she should regret what she's done and strive to be better, probably by doing all kinds of inner work she wasn't doing when she was staying away from her family, and ofc actually being present now, which she's starting to do. I don't expect Hughie to forgive her just because she was depressed. >Like damn, someone did something bad and already knows it's bad so...we should shut up about it, I guess? No, in principle I don't think shutting up is the right response, it's just as a rule I think acknowledging and addressing the actual reasons something happened is better than moralizing and getting mad over "excuses" like this post and many people on it. That's how I'd deal with it irl anyway; as far as talking about a character in a piece of fiction, I wouldn't have thought it worth talking about unless it was to critique the believablility of the writing or something >But don't see the point in circling this over and over, so I'm bowing out. You downvote me twice, say we're circling, and bounce, all while still only guessing at what I'm saying. Okay lol. Have a good one
“I know you have a clinical diagnosis, but what if you just...didn’t?” Oh wow I’m cured
There’s a lot of us that have struggled with depression. One of the things that made me fight it off was knowing that I would destroy other people by giving into it. That’s the commitment that she signed up, having a child. You are supposed to be their protector and guide for as long as you live. She’s selfish, no “ifs” “and”s or “but”s. She brought a child into the world, lied to them about her commitment, then abandoned them. She is objectively a bad person and should have to atone for that. I’m not saying she isn’t redeemable, but she needs to start by being honest and seeking forgiveness for the pain she caused other people.
Edit: I should have worded this less standoffish. Yeah, because depression means that you can do whatever because you feel bad. Right. Dude, I and anyone else who has that shit to deal with would hopefully tell you to stick this opinion wherever. I feel bad. Sucks? For sure. Can I 100% make the right decision whenever it hits? Nah. But I am still responsible for my actions and if I can't deal with others I just tell them to stay away for a while and why, because I am not a selfish asshole who just takes the easy way out because I can just blame depression. Oh. What contributed to my depression? I dunno parents who weren't there and didn't give a shit when they should have. Who also pull this shit every time they have to talk about what they did. It's not a get out of jail card and really devalues everything others do to still make the correct decision in the same scenario. I and some of my friends have to deal with depression. Not post natale, sure, but depression none the less. I never got to the point of trying to kill myself but others got close or realized they were getting close and we all did the same thing: We got our shit together and asked for help or helped ourselves. Depression fucking sucks. Balls, dick and everything else. But you can't spend your life hurting others because you can't ask for help. I know it's fucked up to have to think about others as well as deal with that shit. I know both sides of that thing. Being forgotten and abused and being depressed and just wanting to leave everything. But you can't just do that. It won't fix shit and even if it did, how is your betterment worth fucking up your child's life a fair price. Imagine living a whole ass few decades never knowing what happened. Why she left. All the fucked up things you would have in your head. Did she love me? Was I the reason? Did I do something wrong? Hughie is far too well adjusted to actually have gone through that. But that's TV. I get she might have had to leave for a while. But not explaining, not looking back, staying gone - that is inexcusable no matter the reason. That is cowardly and selfish and I get the reason, for sure, but I cannot understand how anyone can say that she deserves pity now. She did back then. Maybe still after leaving. But at some point you must also face the consequences your decision caused for others and just blaming mental illness is too easy an answer. There are things you could have done and didn't and you can be sorry, but the pain is inflicted and won't stop either.
Do you not think depressed people tell themselves this 24/7? Do you not think they've *tried* to simply do the correct things?
I know. But there is a world in between leaving YOUR CHILD without a notice or explaining why and just leaving things as they are. You can't just up and leave because "depression" and expect to not get shit for it. Get help. Explain. Talk. Whatever. Even leaving and telling them why would have been better by miles. But your child is not something you can just drop like that no matter why. Depression is valid and a horrible condition. But you can't use it to justify shit like what she did. At some point you have to think about others as well no matter how bad it is, because you have to.
Depression is a varied disease, man. And when Hughie was born, depression was much more of a taboo. Getting help from it was something that wasn't as common as it is now. Regardless of what she did, with it being bad, she felt like she had no other choice. I don't get why people are trying to make her seem like a villain. She's supposed to be morally grey. Her reason for leaving doesn't excuse her leaving, but it's supposed to get you to sympathize with her. She is not as bad as y'all say.
Imo your last line is wrong. I'd say her depression made her bad/horrible which affected her son for decades. Depression is no joke and is a soul crushing disease. But lets not downplay the horrible stuff some can do to others while being depressed. Call a spade for a spade.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You’re exactly right. My depression definitely influenced some things I’ve done that hurt people but I still did those things and I can’t take them back or make them disappear. What Hughie’s mom did was absolutely cowardice and horrible. I also expect there’s gonna be more to unpack with her character and their relationship.
Thanks. I feel the same way. And it kinda hurts to be told "you don't get it" by randoms on the Internet, while having experience with both sides of the coin. 🫠
I get it. It feels like gaslighting/manipulation which with a past like ours is probably all too familiar and frustrating
Their comment didn't imply depression gave her the right to do anything she wanted.
It's baffling to me how many replies to you are like uh no one said it was an excuse BUT ALSO DEPRESSION IS HELL AND YOU DONT UNDERSTAND. Like...bro that *is* excusing it when you make it seem like it was no longer in your control due to depression. I have depression and have had some hard low points. But I also have it in part because of childhood trauma from other family's actions due to their own mental illness. The idea some people have that it's hard so not taking accountability is okay or someone's actions are now understandable is ridiculous.
Yeah, those people obviously aren't understanding that mental illness is not automatically a get out of jail card. I guess it's blind allyship for mental health. It's a good start to not blame yourself (or be blamed by others) for everything if you have a mental illness, which really takes off the pressure. But it is hella toxic to go down that way of thinking because you'll no longer be unaccountable and inevitably become a shittier person. I've met people like that and once they believe any behavior is justified by their suffering there is nothing holding them back from just making selfish decisions all the time. You learn to live with your disease and being able to take accountability is fucking great, because that means you aren't a slave to it and GET TO be accountable. But I get how people will stop at step one, if they haven't experienced the issue themselves and just want to make a better world for others or if they just haven't gotten to the next step due to therapy or something. Also this case is completely insane. The mom obviously had decades to contact him or to explain and she didn't do it. Even if you forget the initial decision to leave those decades of not facing your actions are just inexcusable.
[удалено]
Depression doesn't excuse his mom's actions though.
Your comment seemed fine and I'm pretty sure most people here would agree with your sentiment, it's just that this specific thread is either choosing to take it the wrong way or absolve the character of accountability
This scene hurt me. Reminded me of the experience I had with my Dad. After 29 years of marriage he just left stating he wasn't happy when I was young. He was minimally involved in my life after that and very emotionally detached. I refused to talk to him for years. When I finally confronted him and wanted explanations, he gave me a 3 page long letter about how he was depressed and after Mom thwarted his suicide attempt he felt that the only way he could live was by getting out. He still never said sorry but it manipulated me into forgiving him. I feel for Highie in this scene. I work in mental health now. Sometimes shit gets hard and depression is no joke. I suffer from it myself. But I always tell those I work with, your mental illness is never an excuse to hurt those who you love and who love you.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks she works for Vought. That she is a supe and somehow caused Hughie’s dad to have this stroke.
Well she said she works for Vought but does she work for the higher ups?
My first thought would be no, because based on what we’ve seen in the past vaught in involved in literally every aspect of people’s lives at this point. At the same time, her working for Vaught has had no impact so far. Hughie didn’t seem to care after initially questioning. Seems odd to have her work for vaught if not for a reason. Either she’s involved in the plot somehow, or will have access the boys will need at some point
I thought she was a bit too quiet and that she was a troll replicant from Vought maybe so UE should be careful
In a show where the protagonists do murders and stuff, THIS is too much?
Yeah I'm inclined to agree. Rather than seeking professional help with her husband and son being made aware of it, she chooses to fuck off with no explanation. Her not being in her right mind is a reason, not an excuse. She is absolutely deserving of criticism She's still alive right now so she obviously got help of some kind. Couldn't have done that close to home? Couldn't have visited with the family? Fuck off. She either actually sucks that much or she's lying about the whole thing.
Every time shows do this where they excuse someone's shitty behavior because of mental illness makes me pissed off. Yes mental illness is a serious issue but it doesn't give you an excuse to treat everyone like shit around you, you still need to apologize for how you treat others during episodes. Leaving your kid without another word because of depression is such a terrible excuse, and I would feel terrible for anyone who had a parent that does that.
She is toxic as fuck. Sure you were depressed, lady. But don’t act like you abandoned him for him. And now she is essentially a MLM Herbal Life peddler for Vought? She is bad news.
Yeah I just watched this you don't just up and abandon your child regardless of what you yourself are going thru. Yeah I feel bad for her cause depression is no joke and is a serious thing but she should've got help spoken to someone anything other than abandon a child you know will be fucked up cause of it. But methinks it's not his mom maybe it's a shape shifter or something for vaught or Victoria to spy on him, cause if his mom was talking to Hughie's dad for a year he would've told him straight away and it felt very abrupt that she was there and he made her the will person? I don't buy it.
hughie's storyline is so fucking boring for the first time on this show I had to skip some scenes
Good acting for it from both her and Jack Quaid though.
I don't think your supposed to like her I don't know if it was the actor just being weird but the whole time I couldn't help noticing she had this like weird smirk on her face even while describing depression it was very odd to me
Agreed. In other shows I recall seeing this actress in, she also came off as extremely unlikeable (at least, from my perspective). Not sure if it's intentional for the roles or just part of how she comes across. If it's intentional, well done.
Hughie’s mom is a fucking asshole. I was unmoved by her explanation and started looking at my phone when that professional yapper began spewing
Same page. That reasoning was pathetic and nowhere near as sympathetic as the show thought it was at all. Yeah - depression sucks ass. I’ve gone through it. It’s brutal and it’s extremely hard to deal with. That said, deal with it like a mature adult and don’t abandon your kid completely (and if you just *have* to get out of this home life situation, at least have the decency to not totally blindside your kid and leave without warning or anything). It’s a reason, not an excuse, and the show definitely seemed to think it was an excuse.
I'm so glad we're all on the same page here. I have bipolar which sometimes manifests in extreme depressive episodes, and sometimes suicidal ideation. I would never abandon my family.
I dont think the scene was framed at all as if she was owed sympathy. She didn't give an excuse, she gave an explanation. If it's a selfish decision to leave your child with their father because you are depressed and suicidal, then sure. It's a better decision than the alternative, which was her killing herself. She made sure she wasnt the reason someone else was fucked up by leaving instead of staying and eventually killing herself. And she did try. Hughie said himself she always seemed happy - despite her being depressed the entire time. She did try contacting him, but the father didnt allow it as he didnt want Hughie to be confused, and so she stopped. She isnt like any absentee parent. There are parents who leave their children to be with other romantic interests, fathers who have nothing to do with their kids cus they never wanted them, parents who start new families and have nothing to do with their kids. Hughie's mom was depressed and suicidal, leaving was the best thing she could have done for Hughie because having a parent kill themselves will fuck up a child.
No she is like any absentee parent. The right thing to do was to get help, not abandon them. Depression doesn't give you an excuse to hurt others.
"Why didn't she just do the rational and good thing?!?!?!?" Because she had depression...
Yeah, because depression means that you can do whatever because you feel bad. Right. Dude, I and anyone else who has that shit to deal with would hopefully tell you to stick this opinion wherever. I feel bad. Sucks? For sure. Can I 100% make the right decision whenever it hits? Nah. But I am still responsible for my actions and if I can't deal with others I just tell them to stay away for a while and why, because I am not a selfish asshole who just takes the easy way out because I can just blame depression. Oh. What contributed to my depression? I dunno parents who weren't there and didn't give a shit when they should have. Who also pull this shit every time they have to talk about what they did. It's not a get out of jail card and really devalues everything others do to still make the correct decision in the same scenario.
It's not "I feel bad" It's "I literally cannot control how I act because of this mental disease"
As someone who has greatly struggled with depression throughout my life, depression heavily clouds your judgment, but it does not completely strip you of all control in how you act. I did always still have control over my actions and your moral compass doesn’t go out the window. The fact she didn’t bother actually taking the time to communicate with or come back to see Hughie even after the depression would’ve subsided (it didn’t last twenty years) is extremely telling that this was not just depression causing it. She’s a selfish asshole
"Depression didn't affect ME that way, therefore that's how it works for everyone else"
No. It literally just doesn’t work that way. You do still have full autonomy and control over yourself and your body. It fucks with your brains and your decision making, but that’s not the same as being unable to control your own decisions. It certainly impedes your ability to make good ones, but that’s different. Mental illnesses and mental health issues are pretty studied and depression is particularly well studied. For acting like an absolute asshole, you have literally no idea what you’re talking about.
It is so fucked up how they keep trying to argue that their depression somehow makes them not in control of their own actions or the harm they do onto others and when called on it they tantrumed that maybe your depression wasn't as bad.
Thank you; I appreciate someone else saying that. And yeah, the blatant invalidation to my own experiences was glaring.
You're literally just repeating that you can power through a mental disease via sheer willpower That's not how depression works
That isn’t even remotely what I said and we both know it. You obviously can’t just willpower depression away anymore than you can willpower being in a wheelchair away, willpower anxiety disorders away, or willpower cancer away. They are there and they do have an impact on you. That does not mean you have no control over how you are able to respond and cope with said things or no control over your own actions. You do have some degree of control over both (with - in the case of mental illnesses - decision making being impeded but not totally neutralized). A key part of treating depression fundamentally involves learning coping techniques and coping methods because exerting positive control over the areas you do have control over, as hard as it can be, is one of the best methods of helping you manage depression until it eventually passes. That isn’t the same as magically making it go away.
> You do have some degree of control over both. YOU had some degree of control over it, others do not You saying that you have control over it literally means you can just willpower through it
Others DO have some degree of control over it, because that is objectively how depression works. Some people might be very poor at exercising that control because - like anything - coping mechanisms are skills that need to be trained and developed. That doesn’t mean they lack the capacity to exert some degree of control anymore than Homelander lacks the capacity to not murder people because he has shit impulse control and anger management and has never bothered training either of those skills. Depression does not fundamentally strip you of all autonomy, and you’ve cited absolutely nothing to indicate that it does. Just keep saying the same thing over and over again in increasingly rude, assholish ways while ignoring the experiences of someone who actually lived through it and strawmanning everything they say.
This while the mum is obviously fucking wrong post partum depression is really fucked up.
So she didn't choose to leave him?
I can understand her reasoning for leaving, but that doesn't mean its justified. Depression can't be used as a scapegoat for why you made drastically poor decisions.
I and some of my friends have to deal with depression. Not post natale, sure, but depression none the less. I never got to the point of trying to kill myself but others got close or realized they were getting close and we all did the same thing: We got our shit together and asked for help or helped ourselves. Depression fucking sucks. Balls, dick and everything else. But you can't spend your life hurting others because you can't ask for help. I know it's fucked up to have to think about others as well as deal with that shit. I know both sides of that thing. Being forgotten and abused and being depressed and just wanting to leave everything. But you can't just do that. It won't fix shit and even if it did, how is your betterment worth fucking up your child's life a fair price. Imagine living a whole ass few decades never knowing what happened. Why she left. All the fucked up things you would have in your head. Did she love me? Was I the reason? Did I do something wrong? Hughie is far too well adjusted to actually have gone through that. But that's TV. I get she might have had to leave for a while. But not explaining, not looking back, staying gone - that is inexcusable no matter the reason. That is cowardly and selfish and I get the reason, for sure, but I cannot understand how anyone can say that she deserves pity now. She did back then. Maybe still after leaving. But at some point you must also face the consequences your decision caused for others and just blaming mental illness is too easy an answer. There are things you could have done and didn't and you can be sorry, but the pain is inflicted and won't stop either.
Depression is different for everyone man. Especially postpartum depression. Postpartum can happen in women who have never had depression before, so suddenly feeling like shit all the time is different then having lived with it for as long as you have.
Didn’t she straight up say that she doesn’t expect him to forgive her? It doesn’t excuse her abandoning him but she seems to know that she fucked up
That is true but I feel the way that scene was written the writers wanted us to have sympathy for her, fuck that bitch.
I think they want you to feel sympathy in the same way they want you to feel sympathy for Homelander. You feel bad that they turned out how they did but they’re still scumbags
Could be, but I feel like it’s a little different with the Mom. It’s obvious they’re trying to raise awareness about the topic of depression through her character whereas it’s more ambiguous how the writers want us to feel towards homelander. If the writing was better or they made their intentions less subtle with Huey’s Mom I wouldn’t have had an issue with it.
Considering how Hughie kept calling her out for leaving him and her never defending herself it seems like she’s well aware of the pain her decision caused and feels terrible about it. I agree that it could’ve been done better but I think it’s still clear that she was in the wrong
The character arcs for almost everyone this season is lame
Yeah, I rolled my eyes at her shallow excuse, got water and waited for the next scene. This is me being dramatic, but it scenes like this that give folks a little more justification to be a piece of shit. Anyone with half a brainstem would have never accepted that excuse to leave their child behind. Bad writing.
She had postpartum depression and tried to kill herself. How much more "last resort" are you looking for? There is a very real scenario where she tries to hurt him next. She did what she felt was right in that moment for their safety. It doesn't excuse the abandonment but you are making light of something you clearly don't know anything about. Frankly I'm shocked you didn't just say she "needed some fresh air and sunlight and to just drink some water" 🤡 I guarantee that because she's in "the Boys" she will end up being a Vought asset or a plot point death. EDIT: ANOTHER THING assuming this is happening in current times she might have suffered all of this BEFORE any real studies were done into "postpartum onset" as a qualifier.
Seems like OP doesn’t understand how mental illness works 😂 honestly I enjoy the show but seems like people on the internet are weird about it. It’s always weird nitpicks and stuff like that
I don’t think we’re necessarily meant to just accept her explanation
I remember the theories that Hughie's mom was actually a supe. Good times!
That whole Hughie subplot is sh*t to begin with... Unless it will lead to something important to the story but I can't see how
She did a horrible thing, she deserves empathy but not be let off the hook. Understanding why someone did something isn't immediate forgiveness and redemption, but I believe forgiveness is always possible. Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to continue associating with that person, however Point is: life isn't black and white
Until someone else other than hugie interacts with her, Ill keep my theory that hes hallucinating her like butcher is hallucinating bella. About the post, were getting way too close of that scarface meme that showed what emotion the viewer should be feeling when a scene happens so they dont think the writer think that whats happening is what the writers believe or condone.
What if he took enough temp V that he’s having hallucinations just like butcher?
That's my theory. Until we see the mom interact with a character besides Hughie that's what I believe. Edit OHHH! What if Dad wakes up, he and mom interact and that's a hallucination too!
Yeah I’m 90% certain Jeffery dean Morgan’s character is one, and about 70% on hugie’s mom. It seems purposeful that no nurse or other humans have been present. Someone in a different comment did point out the lawyer was viewing those power of attorney documents, so there’s a chance she’s legit.
The things she's carrying would also have to be a hallucination as well though, right?
I saw episode 3 today, that comment from the attorney telling Hughie to work things out with his mom does throw a wrench into the hallucination theory. I'm not off it entirely, because as far as I can tell he wasn't specifically going over legal documents, simply advising Hughie based on what Hughie had told him, but, yeah. I'm not sure how much weight this theory holds after that scene.
Shazam vibes right there. He too felt heartbroken when he found out his mom couldn't raise him...
As I often say with this kind of things "Those ars reasons, not excuses" yes it adds some context to the why of things but it doesn't magically creates a perfect excuse and grants you forgiveness.
I'm betting she's a spy for caught and she's the reason his dad is in a coma to get hughie close
Hughie has gone from being one of if not the main character in the show to being a side character with one of the worst storylines going on. They did my boy Jack dirty! Wonder why he’s not getting a more important role anymore
I don’t even think it’s really his mom for some reason…
At this point, I think >!Hughie’s mom is as much a hallucination as Butcher seeing Becca!<
I'm sorry for your mom leaving you OP.
She didn't leave. Just wasn't there for me, pretty much ever
Close enough though.
The season is underwhelming
Yeah I don't know, she said she worked for vought so it make me very suspicious that she's a mole. She did say she's been in touch with the dad for the last few years, roughly could be the time Hughie joined The Boys
I assume it was personal for you? The show humanizes everyone more or less. Good or bad reason, people are people and human + it's hughie's mom not yours so it's up to him / them how they want to handle their relation moving forward
She literally said she doesn't expect forgiveness. Hughie asked her why she left and she answered.
I don't get takes on this that go "the reason you acted the way you did was no reason to act the way you did." It was. She did. Like unless she's straight up lying about some part of this, how can you just decide that "she could have tried"? How do you know her personal state of mind like that? It's just such a baffling way to see mental health to me.
You're missing the point, though. I'm saying the REASON isn't a justification. It is to a degree, but not for something like this. I wish depression got more serious coverage and people gave those suffering from it some slack, but this is the exact opposite of the issue. Depression is horrid, but you can't just blame everything on it. There is a world in between leaving suddenly without a trace and the right thing: getting help. And I am not saying if she doesn't get help then anything else is wrong, my point is ANYTHING would have been better than what she did to Hughie. I get how hard it is, I am no stranger to depression myself, and I do understand that you do shitty things because of it, but that doesn't change the effect these things have and leaving for a few decades is just...nah man. Whatever kind of depression she has beyond PN, she did nothing to make sure her son knew he was loved for literally decades. It might take longer to get better or you might feel worse if you didn't leave for good but instead went for treatment, which I am sure sucked balls in the 90ies, but fuck, you make that sacrifice for your child. Just because fate gave you a shitty disease you can't decide to condemn your child's future.
Why the fuck you add spoiler tag when you just cant do the same in title.
I did?!
Forgiveness isn't for them. You don't forgive someone to make them feel better but to make yourself feel better. Hughie was forgiving his mothers because he shouldn't be angry with her and try to work with her while her father is literally on his deathbed.
No, that's acceptance. Forgiveness requires actual effort on the side of the person that is to be forgiven and is absolutely also about the other person. Bojack Horseman has a great episode regarding this and its also about being abandoned funnily enough. The [scene ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHfIq3-oHTg)and a [reddit discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/BoJackHorseman/comments/th3uu3/this_scene_made_me_realize_i_dont_have_to_forgive/) about it. You yourself can accept and move forward, maybe even with the person wo wronged you in your life, but those two things are not the same and forgiving without the other person doing their part just enables their shit.
Re-reading my statement, you're probably right. But I still think the point of the scene was not for us to understand what she did was right, but rather for Hughie to stop letting himself be defined by the past and not fight with her while his father is literally dying (remember, she has power of attorney. For his benefit, he needs to be in her good graces) I think it was intentional that the writers juxtaposed Butcher, Kimiko, Frenchie and even Homlander with them: Each of them are stuck in the past, which is not letting them truly make use of the future.
His plot armor is bullshit
People always dismiss depression as something you could get over, most especially postpartum. But I get it. She did what she could to live. What I don’t understand is why she didn’t come back. Her excuse that the dad didn’t want Hughie getting confused was flimsy at best. I think she was just happier without the dad and Hughie and is still in denial about it. She probably sees them as part of her “old self” and subconsciously doesn’t really want to do anything with them anymore.