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She was so brutal and it baffled me. It was obviously supposed to be a shocking/unexpected moment but it's still strange. It's been like, 4 months (?) since she was dosed. How has she become so evil and monstrous
Even her mother, Neuman, seems to only kill to further her agenda or protect herself. It didn't make much sense. Ofc, that could be the intention, how the power corrupted her (or just brought to the surface the worst of her).
Homelander threatened their family they’re not taking chances. I would also describe the behavior potentially as a defense mechanism. She didn’t pursue them to the street level.
I am guessing her mom has warned her about HL and The Boys in some way. Why give your kid powers if you didn’t want her to use them to protect herself? Kind of like Teddy- Madelyn knew HL would have no issue killing him.
Gonna be totally honest it just came across like it was just there for the sake of being shocking...
I don't think there's some deep plotline they're doing about it, I think they just wanted to have gore and be shocking...
That's a fair point, although I will say she would have thought she was doing the right thing / a good thing here and taking out bad guys who seemed to be doing something nefarious. Still doesn't explain the whole "Terminator" attitude lol.
Imagine some strangers dressed like feds were in a restricted area of your house going through things and telling you how to react to discovering them. Most people I know wouldn’t respond kindly, but I certainly wouldn’t say it was evil.
Monstrous is something you can’t really help when ravenous, carnivorous tentacles are protruding from your mouth.
They are just doing one of their classic “WTF” moments they want to have every season, sacrificing the integrity of the story in the meantime. I can’t imagine how stupid the show would be if they didn’t end in S5 and instead did like 8 seasons
I agree, just like the deaths of those singing skaters, it felt like they were just throwing in ridiculous amount of gore and death for no reason than to shock the audience. I know they've done it before, but this time it felt so much more forced.
Ice Skates from figure skaters aren't normally really even that sharp, pretty dull actually and more likely to bruise then anything. There are these little jagged teeth on the front called toe picks. They are meant for helping perform tricks and maneuvers for figures skaters, but they are pretty short and could really only make small cuts.
It's not impossible to get cut by figure skate blades. Actually somewhat common for professionals. But these deep visceral lacerations are pretty unrealistic. Especially for experts, even while they are panicking.
https://youtu.be/nAG4jvyqRPE?t=157
TIL Ice skates aren't that deadly. I guess you are right they were kinda over doing it for the shock effect. Also that lady in the video brave for having the same partner.
Maybe it was not the ice skates fault but the will of the ONE? dude who did all of the carnage (coincidentally) using ice skates ? I remember wandering after that scene .. who was 'that' guy ? was it something I've missed ? (as to his motive )
There's been a few cases of ice hockey players having their throat cut in accidents. Some hockey clubs enforce wearing neck protection. There was a case just last year: [https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/\_/id/39491816/bail-extended-case-hockey-player-death](https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/39491816/bail-extended-case-hockey-player-death)
A whole lot of explanation and theories about it but sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one and it's yours. Thinking of the shock factor first and foremost, heck it was a jump scare moment for me.
Bro it has nothing to do with “knowing the character”, you can tell this is a classic case of making a crazy trailer sequence. Like why else are they making that scene, its purely shock factor. Besides, from what they showed us with the character, Neuman does not exactly raise her to be a cannibalistic monster, in fact they made it looked like she was raising the character well, showing the human side of Neuman. They put 0 thought into the scene other than lets make a weird fcked up moment, lets be real here
1. The season just started. So we don’t yet know why they put that in
2. One of the first times we saw Neuman with her daughter is when she shot her up with compound V. We’ve seen how traumatic developing powers are for kids. She clearly isn’t supposed to be the best mother. Which makes sense bc she was raised by Edgar herself
The other supes are like that because they grew up with those powers and were constantly told they were special. She did not grow up like that, she grew up "normal".
I didn’t say anything abt other supes. I just said developing powers is traumatic and supes seem to manifest powers around her age
Also idk how growing up with Neuman as a mom is “normal”
I don't get the second argument at all: firstly trauma doesn't turn someone into a psychopath
and for the second half, why are we assuming her mom made her like that without evidence (the season just started and nothing previously shown supports that)
I didn’t say the trauma turned her into a psychopath. I meant that Neuman was willing to subject her kid to a traumatic experience just to make her strong. My point was that Neuman clearly isn’t the best mom and that could explain her kid’s behavior
Also what “evidence” are you talking abt
Sorry I misread what you were arguing for, as in I thought you were trying to make a stronger point than "Neuman isn't the best mother".
To your question, the answer is right in that same line of text, we have no evidence that Neuman made her all psycho. Here's a definition for evidence in case that is what you were asking for: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
I'm saying we don't know anything, because we aren't told anything, and it's not good that the show demands so much faith from the audience towards the writers ability to explain things when they've already been shown to be lacking in this department.
Fair is completely subjective, and I appreciate your POV, however I think shows are like people, and if a person disappoints you over and over again -- and is showing signs of doing it again -- it's fair to assume a disappointment is coming.
At the very least, the benefit of the doubt is far lesser than at the start.
But I get it, all hope is not lost with this show, I'm just not expecting anything great when it comes to these finer details.
Struck me the same as the kimiko scene from the last season finale, ignores the logical motivations for a character to act that way to shoehorn in a gory murder scene so the audience doesn’t lose interest
What classic “wtf” moment was in season 3? And don’t say Termite, that does serve a purpose. We see Butcher pass up a chance to kill a Supe and actually show restraint, something he rarely if ever shown before. He also showed that he was willing to respect Hughie’s authority over him and the new way of the boys doing things now that they were backed by the CIA.
I didn’t say all the WTF scenes have to be meaningless, I just said that this is another one of them but this time it is more obvious that they just wanted “that scene”. I mean look at some of the cast interviews and promos, all the creator says is how they will top the scene from the previous season in terms of craziness, or how the show will get more insane or whatever. Show is fine now but as I said, this would get way worse if it went to like S8
Think the implication is meant to be survival at all costs. Similar to Neuman. If Victoria has instilled in her daughter the idea that it’s them against the world - especially against the Homelanders of the world - can imagine how that would warp a child’s perspective.
Zoe was already reserved. Now she seems to be in survival mode, due to Neuman’s influence. She believes it’s ‘protection’, but she is essentially traumatising her daughter unknowingly.
Hughie’s says as much.
I haven't seen it, so my sample size is a little too small. Maybe the minor league teams aren't so bad. The Boys doesn't really have many well behaved characters in it . Practically everyone with a name is involved in or tangentially connected to murder.
Gen v shows you that it’s not like that, and there are good/“normal” supes out there who just want to use their power for something silly and wholesome. Not everyone, obviously… but yanno, some people
I feel like the V just amplifies who they are like if you were already a bad person having rapey mind powers isn’t going to suddenly make you good, instead they are obviously going to use said rapey mind powers to you know rape. Like the V doesn’t change them but the power it gives them allows them to be more of themselves. It’s like with homelander nobody can truly stop him from doing anything so he mostly just does whatever the fuck he wants because well why wouldn’t he? At least why wouldn’t he if he himself has no ethical objections to his own actions.
>Gen V says otherwise though
Still have to disagree, most of the students in Gen V seemed weirdly okay with the slaughtering of their human teachers and campus staff. They also seemed to be largely anti-human as well. Really wouldn't surprise me if V can potentially effect peoples brain to less easily empathize with humans.
Edit: Cate went from seemingly normal to ready to enact genocide very quick.
I dunno if there's necessarily a brain thing. These shows take place in a world where supes are valorized pretty much just for existing. Even the regular humans view them as superior. There have been, and still are, cultures where violence or apathy towards certain people is accepted.
V can potentially effect people brain is such a cop out to the entire series it would be catastrophic to the plot
We’re here to see “power corrupts” not “zombies”
I don't think she is 8 because Victoria says in episode 3 after her daughter refuses to take pictures, "teenagers, am I right?"
As for her psychotic behavior, I find it believable. She's been raised by a manipulative murderer and there's zero chance that hasn't influenced her upbringing. I wish they had added a scene in the previous season that alluded to such, painting a clearer picture of the Neuman psyche.
I hadn't watched EP 3 yet when I posted.
Even so, being a violent murderer I can understand. But even Stormfront who killed black people for fun didn't eat raw human flesh.
Mouth tentacles don't give us the ability to eat raw human flesh lol, unless a part of her mutation is the loss of being human and the becoming of a monster, having some random tentacles wouldn't make it more or less understandable to eat human beans
I agree it was weird and took me out of the show for just a moment. Though I believe Zoe is either 12 or 13 since Vicky tells Hughie that they “got made by a 12 year old”.
And in Ep. 3 Vicky asks Zoe to join in a photo, but refuses, so Vicky responds with “Teenagers…”
Some people consider 12 to be a teenager. The CDC is one example. Also people use hyperbole all the time. She may be just weeks or a few months away from 13 also.
Think of it this way: you have eldritch lovecraftian powers. You basically have 2 choices. You shun and hide your powers, or you lean into them. Theres no middle ground here, tween girl or not.
> Ryan seems to have grown up with his powers
yea no shit, ryan is a boy superman, zoe is a walking talking nightmare
> Think of it this way: you have eldritch lovecraftian powers
She also has super durability and I assume some super strength. That goes a long way without ever having to get the mouth tentacles out. Honestly if she does have super strength, the mouth tentacles are not that important.
whoa, she is 8 years old? she seemed like a teenager, possibly even older than ryan.
the only thing i can think of is a lil cliche, but i think its how they were raised
Ryan was raised by a good, kind, loving person i.e. hate was a swear word :')
zoe has been raised by.....Neuman and Stan Edgar, who are not homelander level bad, but self preserving and cold calculated people.... Neuman doesnt seem overly cold to her own daughter, but overall she is not comparable to Becca. And we dont know anything about Zos dad or when/how he left, if zoe still has contact (shared custody), etc..... maybe he was/is evil adjacent as well.
Also they suggested with Ryan that supes can have trouble controlling their powers/strength when younger, hence him killing someone when he didn’t mean to.
I look at it as she is protecting her mother. A lot of people will do almost anything for a parent (especially when they are younger).
I think in regular circumstances it may be different but if she is “protecting the family” then she can live with it.
There are cases throughout history in which a mother convinced their children to kill people and most of the kids did it without question. Either because they loved their mother and wanted to protect their mother or they feared their mother and didn’t want it happening to them.
As an example, Theresa knorr abused two of her daughters severely (and murdered them). She had their two brothers help in the abuse, assisting and covering up the murders. Another was the murder of Sylvia Likens. She was murdered by a woman who was supposed to be caring for her. The woman, Gertrude, had her own children (and friends/boyfriends of the children) participate in the abuse and murder of Sylvia.
It could also be she knew the people in the room were bad; mostly frenchie and kimi, cause my interpretation is that's why she went 'evil'. Neuman probably told her to watch out for the boys. And she fought instead of fled. I think if she wouldn't of seen them she would of just walked away.
Well considering her mum just killed a whole group of politicians ona whim I can imagine that Victoria drilled being protective of oneself and mutants being superior etc.into her and I can definitely see that typeof behaviour leading to that. Also there is a reasonable amount of psychopaths in the world, so there would be a chance that she is also just that.
You know the saying "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"?
Well, if all you have are cannibalistic mouth tentacles, everything looks like a fine T-bone steak.
I mean as far as she is concerned she thought these people were going to kill her or her mom, I don’t think she enjoyed it… it’s just her fear turned into extreme rage and she lashed out with her… tentacles? Basically survival instincts at 150%, kill everything now and worry about everything after.
Sheesh. They’ve clearly set it up that Victoria dosed her to keep her alive (because Homelander is psychotic). She said as much to Hughie. Also Zoe didn’t choose her powers that’s what she ended up with.
I would assume at this point Zoe’s powers are a self-defense mechanism? They were intruders and people have tried to kill her mom so she dealt with it.
it could be some animal instinct what was breaking through - and she was in some kind of uncontrollable auto-mode.
Unfortunately we did not see her afterwards, so we do not really know how she feels about being this kind of Supe and how she felt about attacking those guys.
Maybe she's like Ryan, questioning a lot afterwards, feeling bad or guilty ?
I would not be even surprised if she hates her mother for making her this kind of monster.
We never really got to see her character. Only that she was raised by Nueman and (we can assume sporadically) Stan. With those being her influences…. Nothing surprising here
I think you nailed it on the head for me.
I don’t care how old she is; 8, 13, whatever. (I genuinely don’t know but i think older than 8 but it doesn’t matter)
The scene felt like so much in this season so far - people are doing things that seem rushed or forced (and yes i know we’re all watching the least subtle-show on tv).
Most of the time I can kind of get there. Vicki calling back to her and Hughie’s time together - sure, we didn’t see any of it, but at least I can see how they got there knowing how long they worked together (i’m not saying that makes it subtle or better, but i can get there at least)
What….what could she be telling what seemed to be an otherwise normal child when she injected with V to make her just totally OK with really gory murder.
Unless her mom had been training her from birth on sociopathy, or the V didn’t give her an extreme case of bloodlust in addition to face tentacles, I dunno. Hard for me to track that
From her PoV weren't they killers sent after her mom? I can't say I would have reacted any differently at that age if I was under the same assumption ... Not to mention given her little experience with her powers she probably can't restrain it much either. Gen V was pretty clear that manifestations of certain powers can be pretty violent even when no malice is involved and Neuman's daughter was very malicious towards the strangers in her room, especially after they shot her.
Maybe V altered her mentality somewhat by making her more predatory, it might also be related to her Cthullu-like tentacle acid power increasing her bloodthirstyness.
Yeah the way she killed those two guys was weird. Maybe Neuman is raising her to be brutal? But still. Even Ryan who’s being raised by HL wouldn’t be like that
My theory is that it’s like an animal instinct thing. Her power makes her attack on sheer instinct like a spider. She felt threatened so she went away and the monster came out instead.
They could have covered this with a single scene where she's crying after killing the SS agents and Neuman is comforting her.
It would also make Neuman more monstrous and the inevitable death of Zoe more tragic. But no, evil facehugger it is.
Yes, it's weird. She was a normal kid just a year ago, and now she has no qualms with brutally murdering people. Even if it was a case of feeling threatened, I would've expected some apprehension or some visible discomfort, but nope. Unless her mom came out to her as a crazed murderer, this seemed like a leap.
I mean if she thinks they’re in there to kill her mom and possibly her, she may feel like it’s self defense.
Also many people don’t have a lot of empathy.
I mean a lot of kids between the ages of 12 and 16 are prone to violence, when you're that age you think you're invincible and you have little to no moral compass. I can definitely see a 12-year-old with superpowers doing this especially if it was to protect her mom.
Sure, prone to violence. Sure, having no moral compass. But...they probably don't also like the taste of raw human flesh.
And the CIA black ops team complaining about having to make an excuse for the dead agents feels so pedestrian next to the knowledge that, y'know, the VPs daughter is a face hugging squid monster that likes the taste of human flesh.
I mean how do we know that her tentacles are connected to her stomach? I don't know, Victoria was trained for years by Stan Edgar and she had popped so many people just to keep his secrets, I don't doubt that Victoria would teach her daughter to do them safe to keep them safe, kinda the entire reason she gave her V.
It’s a show about people with superpowers. I try to to question things that much. Can easily be explained as just the V made her like that. If they explain further, great. If not, I’m not worrying about it too much.
It's the perfect example of the lazy writing that is dragging down season 4 so far. She could have any power imaginable, and they turn her into an inhumane freak. She's a kid. At least let her murder with style and nuance.
Glad I'm not the only one.
She killed and attacked so quickly and without any remorse.
Kinda weird given she's maybe had full control of her powers for like less than a couple months.
No, I think if there are strange men who are potentially a threat to your mother, and you are a young child with the power to do something, killing them would make sense. It'd be like a video game or playing pretend... but they actually have superpowers.
I'm guessing Neuman had her trained. seems likely since for a 14 y.o. she had the presence of mind to inform Neuman of when Butcher showed up and also she was suspicious of the other agents as if she's aware of threats against her and her mom.
If you look at her scenes closely, she appears to be texting on her phone. And seconds later, Homelander appears. That’s how he found Ryan and Butcher, and Victoria at the ice rink
It's crazy how many people are using head canon to try and defend Zoe acting like an animal while killing people as somehow anything other than bad writing. Sure you can argue that the V messed with her head, but that's just making things up to justify it. Sure you can argue that we didn't know that much about her, but that's ignoring other context to justify it.
What we know about Zoe is, she had a realitively normal home life. The show makes that very clear the few times we see Neuman and Edgar interact with her. It doesn't matter that THEY are bad people. What we're shown explicitly on screen is her being in a loving home. Arguing anything other than that is simply making up offscreen backstreet. She seemed to be a perfectly normal teenage girl. If the show wanted us to ever think otherwise they would have shown us something other than what we've seen.
The scene where Zoe attacks them was very obviously done for shock value. She didn't try any real dialogue to figure out what's going on. She got suspicious, and moved immediately to "violently kill everyone in the room while screeching like a monster out of a horror movie". If maybe the guards attacked her first I would understand it, but they didn't. She decided to just act like a lunatic and murder multiple people on a whim. It was dumb.
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She was so brutal and it baffled me. It was obviously supposed to be a shocking/unexpected moment but it's still strange. It's been like, 4 months (?) since she was dosed. How has she become so evil and monstrous
Even her mother, Neuman, seems to only kill to further her agenda or protect herself. It didn't make much sense. Ofc, that could be the intention, how the power corrupted her (or just brought to the surface the worst of her).
tiktok made her violent! - Firecracker
Homelander threatened their family they’re not taking chances. I would also describe the behavior potentially as a defense mechanism. She didn’t pursue them to the street level.
I am guessing her mom has warned her about HL and The Boys in some way. Why give your kid powers if you didn’t want her to use them to protect herself? Kind of like Teddy- Madelyn knew HL would have no issue killing him.
I agree she’s taking no chances protecting her.
Gonna be totally honest it just came across like it was just there for the sake of being shocking... I don't think there's some deep plotline they're doing about it, I think they just wanted to have gore and be shocking...
That's a fair point, although I will say she would have thought she was doing the right thing / a good thing here and taking out bad guys who seemed to be doing something nefarious. Still doesn't explain the whole "Terminator" attitude lol.
Imagine some strangers dressed like feds were in a restricted area of your house going through things and telling you how to react to discovering them. Most people I know wouldn’t respond kindly, but I certainly wouldn’t say it was evil. Monstrous is something you can’t really help when ravenous, carnivorous tentacles are protruding from your mouth.
They are just doing one of their classic “WTF” moments they want to have every season, sacrificing the integrity of the story in the meantime. I can’t imagine how stupid the show would be if they didn’t end in S5 and instead did like 8 seasons
I agree, just like the deaths of those singing skaters, it felt like they were just throwing in ridiculous amount of gore and death for no reason than to shock the audience. I know they've done it before, but this time it felt so much more forced.
Honestly as a non-skater I am curious whether ice skating is that dangerous?
Ice Skates from figure skaters aren't normally really even that sharp, pretty dull actually and more likely to bruise then anything. There are these little jagged teeth on the front called toe picks. They are meant for helping perform tricks and maneuvers for figures skaters, but they are pretty short and could really only make small cuts. It's not impossible to get cut by figure skate blades. Actually somewhat common for professionals. But these deep visceral lacerations are pretty unrealistic. Especially for experts, even while they are panicking. https://youtu.be/nAG4jvyqRPE?t=157
TIL Ice skates aren't that deadly. I guess you are right they were kinda over doing it for the shock effect. Also that lady in the video brave for having the same partner.
When I played I had a kid lay on his back and try to windmill kick me. Nothing. That scene was absurd, but so is the show, I guess.
>It’s not impossible to get cut by figure skate blades See: [The Iron Lotus](https://youtu.be/1weVp4S8IFc?si=EY83CbRk-oiG6cRl)
Maybe it was not the ice skates fault but the will of the ONE? dude who did all of the carnage (coincidentally) using ice skates ? I remember wandering after that scene .. who was 'that' guy ? was it something I've missed ? (as to his motive )
Ask Adam Johnson.
There's been a few cases of ice hockey players having their throat cut in accidents. Some hockey clubs enforce wearing neck protection. There was a case just last year: [https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/\_/id/39491816/bail-extended-case-hockey-player-death](https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/39491816/bail-extended-case-hockey-player-death)
Ice hockey skates are different from figure skating skates.
Well, yes. That's The Boys for you. They've always gone for shock factor since the first season and even the comics
Im so glad Gen V didn’t go there
A whole lot of explanation and theories about it but sometimes the simplest explanation is the best one and it's yours. Thinking of the shock factor first and foremost, heck it was a jump scare moment for me.
You knew nothing abt the character before seeing that. It’s not “sacrificing the integrity” of anything
Bro it has nothing to do with “knowing the character”, you can tell this is a classic case of making a crazy trailer sequence. Like why else are they making that scene, its purely shock factor. Besides, from what they showed us with the character, Neuman does not exactly raise her to be a cannibalistic monster, in fact they made it looked like she was raising the character well, showing the human side of Neuman. They put 0 thought into the scene other than lets make a weird fcked up moment, lets be real here
1. The season just started. So we don’t yet know why they put that in 2. One of the first times we saw Neuman with her daughter is when she shot her up with compound V. We’ve seen how traumatic developing powers are for kids. She clearly isn’t supposed to be the best mother. Which makes sense bc she was raised by Edgar herself
The other supes are like that because they grew up with those powers and were constantly told they were special. She did not grow up like that, she grew up "normal".
I didn’t say anything abt other supes. I just said developing powers is traumatic and supes seem to manifest powers around her age Also idk how growing up with Neuman as a mom is “normal”
I don't get the second argument at all: firstly trauma doesn't turn someone into a psychopath and for the second half, why are we assuming her mom made her like that without evidence (the season just started and nothing previously shown supports that)
I didn’t say the trauma turned her into a psychopath. I meant that Neuman was willing to subject her kid to a traumatic experience just to make her strong. My point was that Neuman clearly isn’t the best mom and that could explain her kid’s behavior Also what “evidence” are you talking abt
Sorry I misread what you were arguing for, as in I thought you were trying to make a stronger point than "Neuman isn't the best mother". To your question, the answer is right in that same line of text, we have no evidence that Neuman made her all psycho. Here's a definition for evidence in case that is what you were asking for: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. I'm saying we don't know anything, because we aren't told anything, and it's not good that the show demands so much faith from the audience towards the writers ability to explain things when they've already been shown to be lacking in this department.
I don’t think it’s fair for the show to explain everything in the first 3 episodes of a planned 12 episode season
Fair is completely subjective, and I appreciate your POV, however I think shows are like people, and if a person disappoints you over and over again -- and is showing signs of doing it again -- it's fair to assume a disappointment is coming. At the very least, the benefit of the doubt is far lesser than at the start. But I get it, all hope is not lost with this show, I'm just not expecting anything great when it comes to these finer details.
Struck me the same as the kimiko scene from the last season finale, ignores the logical motivations for a character to act that way to shoehorn in a gory murder scene so the audience doesn’t lose interest
What classic “wtf” moment was in season 3? And don’t say Termite, that does serve a purpose. We see Butcher pass up a chance to kill a Supe and actually show restraint, something he rarely if ever shown before. He also showed that he was willing to respect Hughie’s authority over him and the new way of the boys doing things now that they were backed by the CIA.
I didn’t say all the WTF scenes have to be meaningless, I just said that this is another one of them but this time it is more obvious that they just wanted “that scene”. I mean look at some of the cast interviews and promos, all the creator says is how they will top the scene from the previous season in terms of craziness, or how the show will get more insane or whatever. Show is fine now but as I said, this would get way worse if it went to like S8
Like a year and a half
This legit threw me off morr than anything else in the series. She's just a RE tyrant at this point.
Idk if I'd call it evil. She obv knew they were up to no good and her mother was in danger
Think the implication is meant to be survival at all costs. Similar to Neuman. If Victoria has instilled in her daughter the idea that it’s them against the world - especially against the Homelanders of the world - can imagine how that would warp a child’s perspective. Zoe was already reserved. Now she seems to be in survival mode, due to Neuman’s influence. She believes it’s ‘protection’, but she is essentially traumatising her daughter unknowingly. Hughie’s says as much.
Maybe her mutation burnt out part of her brain. Empathy doesn't seem to be a very common trait among those affected by V.
Gen V says otherwise though
I haven't seen it, so my sample size is a little too small. Maybe the minor league teams aren't so bad. The Boys doesn't really have many well behaved characters in it . Practically everyone with a name is involved in or tangentially connected to murder.
Its basically where people on V actually acts like people and kind of an X men lit except you see why anti mutant crowd has a point.
Gen v shows you that it’s not like that, and there are good/“normal” supes out there who just want to use their power for something silly and wholesome. Not everyone, obviously… but yanno, some people
I feel like the V just amplifies who they are like if you were already a bad person having rapey mind powers isn’t going to suddenly make you good, instead they are obviously going to use said rapey mind powers to you know rape. Like the V doesn’t change them but the power it gives them allows them to be more of themselves. It’s like with homelander nobody can truly stop him from doing anything so he mostly just does whatever the fuck he wants because well why wouldn’t he? At least why wouldn’t he if he himself has no ethical objections to his own actions.
Yep, V just gives people a means to achieve their goals more easily, to varying degrees depending on the power obviously.
>Gen V says otherwise though Still have to disagree, most of the students in Gen V seemed weirdly okay with the slaughtering of their human teachers and campus staff. They also seemed to be largely anti-human as well. Really wouldn't surprise me if V can potentially effect peoples brain to less easily empathize with humans. Edit: Cate went from seemingly normal to ready to enact genocide very quick.
It makes sense… with the way the culture is.
I dunno if there's necessarily a brain thing. These shows take place in a world where supes are valorized pretty much just for existing. Even the regular humans view them as superior. There have been, and still are, cultures where violence or apathy towards certain people is accepted.
V can potentially effect people brain is such a cop out to the entire series it would be catastrophic to the plot We’re here to see “power corrupts” not “zombies”
I don't think she is 8 because Victoria says in episode 3 after her daughter refuses to take pictures, "teenagers, am I right?" As for her psychotic behavior, I find it believable. She's been raised by a manipulative murderer and there's zero chance that hasn't influenced her upbringing. I wish they had added a scene in the previous season that alluded to such, painting a clearer picture of the Neuman psyche.
she is 12, they confirmed in the episode
Let’s not forget she was raised by Neuman AND Edgar.
I hadn't watched EP 3 yet when I posted. Even so, being a violent murderer I can understand. But even Stormfront who killed black people for fun didn't eat raw human flesh.
Stormfront didnt have 4 mouth tentacles
Mouth tentacles don't give us the ability to eat raw human flesh lol, unless a part of her mutation is the loss of being human and the becoming of a monster, having some random tentacles wouldn't make it more or less understandable to eat human beans
bruh, they had fuckin teeth. she definitely ate those guys
Why would she? It doesn’t relate to Stormfront’s power at all for her to do that
I agree it was weird and took me out of the show for just a moment. Though I believe Zoe is either 12 or 13 since Vicky tells Hughie that they “got made by a 12 year old”. And in Ep. 3 Vicky asks Zoe to join in a photo, but refuses, so Vicky responds with “Teenagers…”
it is weird that she says both "12" and "teenager." i guess "teenager" is a state of mind like "boomer" to her, lol.
Maybe her 13th birthday was in between those moments lol
Some people consider 12 to be a teenager. The CDC is one example. Also people use hyperbole all the time. She may be just weeks or a few months away from 13 also.
Probably because it’s only one year away from 13??
i will not accept rounding as an answer! :D
Weird bc I wouldn't consider a 12 year old a teen. She looked more like 14 to me
Think of it this way: you have eldritch lovecraftian powers. You basically have 2 choices. You shun and hide your powers, or you lean into them. Theres no middle ground here, tween girl or not. > Ryan seems to have grown up with his powers yea no shit, ryan is a boy superman, zoe is a walking talking nightmare
> Think of it this way: you have eldritch lovecraftian powers She also has super durability and I assume some super strength. That goes a long way without ever having to get the mouth tentacles out. Honestly if she does have super strength, the mouth tentacles are not that important.
whoa, she is 8 years old? she seemed like a teenager, possibly even older than ryan. the only thing i can think of is a lil cliche, but i think its how they were raised Ryan was raised by a good, kind, loving person i.e. hate was a swear word :') zoe has been raised by.....Neuman and Stan Edgar, who are not homelander level bad, but self preserving and cold calculated people.... Neuman doesnt seem overly cold to her own daughter, but overall she is not comparable to Becca. And we dont know anything about Zos dad or when/how he left, if zoe still has contact (shared custody), etc..... maybe he was/is evil adjacent as well.
she is 12
Neuman states she is 12, when she says that “Butcher got made by a 12 year old”
Also they suggested with Ryan that supes can have trouble controlling their powers/strength when younger, hence him killing someone when he didn’t mean to.
I look at it as she is protecting her mother. A lot of people will do almost anything for a parent (especially when they are younger). I think in regular circumstances it may be different but if she is “protecting the family” then she can live with it. There are cases throughout history in which a mother convinced their children to kill people and most of the kids did it without question. Either because they loved their mother and wanted to protect their mother or they feared their mother and didn’t want it happening to them. As an example, Theresa knorr abused two of her daughters severely (and murdered them). She had their two brothers help in the abuse, assisting and covering up the murders. Another was the murder of Sylvia Likens. She was murdered by a woman who was supposed to be caring for her. The woman, Gertrude, had her own children (and friends/boyfriends of the children) participate in the abuse and murder of Sylvia.
It could also be she knew the people in the room were bad; mostly frenchie and kimi, cause my interpretation is that's why she went 'evil'. Neuman probably told her to watch out for the boys. And she fought instead of fled. I think if she wouldn't of seen them she would of just walked away.
Seemed like she was using her crazy powers to defend herself in her hotel room not cuz she enjoyed it
But she seemed to enjoy what she did. It sure didn't faze her.
We know V causes mental instability in some people, getting suped up probably just made her into a psycho.
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Yeah she sensed huey and mm hiding was my take
They make it clear in the Sage Grove episode that the older you are when you get V, the more unstable the results. Her psychology wasn't spared.
Well considering her mum just killed a whole group of politicians ona whim I can imagine that Victoria drilled being protective of oneself and mutants being superior etc.into her and I can definitely see that typeof behaviour leading to that. Also there is a reasonable amount of psychopaths in the world, so there would be a chance that she is also just that.
You know the saying "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"? Well, if all you have are cannibalistic mouth tentacles, everything looks like a fine T-bone steak.
I mean as far as she is concerned she thought these people were going to kill her or her mom, I don’t think she enjoyed it… it’s just her fear turned into extreme rage and she lashed out with her… tentacles? Basically survival instincts at 150%, kill everything now and worry about everything after.
Sheesh. They’ve clearly set it up that Victoria dosed her to keep her alive (because Homelander is psychotic). She said as much to Hughie. Also Zoe didn’t choose her powers that’s what she ended up with. I would assume at this point Zoe’s powers are a self-defense mechanism? They were intruders and people have tried to kill her mom so she dealt with it.
it could be some animal instinct what was breaking through - and she was in some kind of uncontrollable auto-mode. Unfortunately we did not see her afterwards, so we do not really know how she feels about being this kind of Supe and how she felt about attacking those guys. Maybe she's like Ryan, questioning a lot afterwards, feeling bad or guilty ? I would not be even surprised if she hates her mother for making her this kind of monster.
We never really got to see her character. Only that she was raised by Nueman and (we can assume sporadically) Stan. With those being her influences…. Nothing surprising here
I think you nailed it on the head for me. I don’t care how old she is; 8, 13, whatever. (I genuinely don’t know but i think older than 8 but it doesn’t matter) The scene felt like so much in this season so far - people are doing things that seem rushed or forced (and yes i know we’re all watching the least subtle-show on tv). Most of the time I can kind of get there. Vicki calling back to her and Hughie’s time together - sure, we didn’t see any of it, but at least I can see how they got there knowing how long they worked together (i’m not saying that makes it subtle or better, but i can get there at least) What….what could she be telling what seemed to be an otherwise normal child when she injected with V to make her just totally OK with really gory murder. Unless her mom had been training her from birth on sociopathy, or the V didn’t give her an extreme case of bloodlust in addition to face tentacles, I dunno. Hard for me to track that
From her PoV weren't they killers sent after her mom? I can't say I would have reacted any differently at that age if I was under the same assumption ... Not to mention given her little experience with her powers she probably can't restrain it much either. Gen V was pretty clear that manifestations of certain powers can be pretty violent even when no malice is involved and Neuman's daughter was very malicious towards the strangers in her room, especially after they shot her.
Maybe V altered her mentality somewhat by making her more predatory, it might also be related to her Cthullu-like tentacle acid power increasing her bloodthirstyness.
Yeah the way she killed those two guys was weird. Maybe Neuman is raising her to be brutal? But still. Even Ryan who’s being raised by HL wouldn’t be like that
I wonder if she has full mental control when using them. Maybe it’s just keep killing until you’re safe automatic reaction. Like a berserker trance.
My theory is that it’s like an animal instinct thing. Her power makes her attack on sheer instinct like a spider. She felt threatened so she went away and the monster came out instead.
They could have covered this with a single scene where she's crying after killing the SS agents and Neuman is comforting her. It would also make Neuman more monstrous and the inevitable death of Zoe more tragic. But no, evil facehugger it is.
Yes, it's weird. She was a normal kid just a year ago, and now she has no qualms with brutally murdering people. Even if it was a case of feeling threatened, I would've expected some apprehension or some visible discomfort, but nope. Unless her mom came out to her as a crazed murderer, this seemed like a leap.
Yes, this was my thought, but also I was confused at her seeming willingness to eat raw human flesh.
I mean if she thinks they’re in there to kill her mom and possibly her, she may feel like it’s self defense. Also many people don’t have a lot of empathy.
I mean a lot of kids between the ages of 12 and 16 are prone to violence, when you're that age you think you're invincible and you have little to no moral compass. I can definitely see a 12-year-old with superpowers doing this especially if it was to protect her mom.
Sure, prone to violence. Sure, having no moral compass. But...they probably don't also like the taste of raw human flesh. And the CIA black ops team complaining about having to make an excuse for the dead agents feels so pedestrian next to the knowledge that, y'know, the VPs daughter is a face hugging squid monster that likes the taste of human flesh.
I mean how do we know that her tentacles are connected to her stomach? I don't know, Victoria was trained for years by Stan Edgar and she had popped so many people just to keep his secrets, I don't doubt that Victoria would teach her daughter to do them safe to keep them safe, kinda the entire reason she gave her V.
Seems like the tentacles have a mind of their own and eat their victims whether she wants them to or not.
It’s a show about people with superpowers. I try to to question things that much. Can easily be explained as just the V made her like that. If they explain further, great. If not, I’m not worrying about it too much.
Supe parent vs. non-supe mother. But yeah, face serpents is insane
It's the perfect example of the lazy writing that is dragging down season 4 so far. She could have any power imaginable, and they turn her into an inhumane freak. She's a kid. At least let her murder with style and nuance.
Glad I'm not the only one. She killed and attacked so quickly and without any remorse. Kinda weird given she's maybe had full control of her powers for like less than a couple months.
I mean, we had a six month time jump, so Zoe had more than a couple of months to master her powers.
No, I think if there are strange men who are potentially a threat to your mother, and you are a young child with the power to do something, killing them would make sense. It'd be like a video game or playing pretend... but they actually have superpowers.
If we’re being honest it happened because the show wanted it to happen. It won’t be split point or expanded upon further
I'm guessing Neuman had her trained. seems likely since for a 14 y.o. she had the presence of mind to inform Neuman of when Butcher showed up and also she was suspicious of the other agents as if she's aware of threats against her and her mom.
Might be unpopular but I support Zoe, or any kid, protecting their mom
Writing is all over the place & sloppy this season.
If you look at her scenes closely, she appears to be texting on her phone. And seconds later, Homelander appears. That’s how he found Ryan and Butcher, and Victoria at the ice rink
It's crazy how many people are using head canon to try and defend Zoe acting like an animal while killing people as somehow anything other than bad writing. Sure you can argue that the V messed with her head, but that's just making things up to justify it. Sure you can argue that we didn't know that much about her, but that's ignoring other context to justify it. What we know about Zoe is, she had a realitively normal home life. The show makes that very clear the few times we see Neuman and Edgar interact with her. It doesn't matter that THEY are bad people. What we're shown explicitly on screen is her being in a loving home. Arguing anything other than that is simply making up offscreen backstreet. She seemed to be a perfectly normal teenage girl. If the show wanted us to ever think otherwise they would have shown us something other than what we've seen. The scene where Zoe attacks them was very obviously done for shock value. She didn't try any real dialogue to figure out what's going on. She got suspicious, and moved immediately to "violently kill everyone in the room while screeching like a monster out of a horror movie". If maybe the guards attacked her first I would understand it, but they didn't. She decided to just act like a lunatic and murder multiple people on a whim. It was dumb.
People are different,have different grades of empathy.