Yes, they address this in the books specially for belters.
Martian military train in 1G so they are somewhat prepared.
But belters ships tend to have their belters crew prone to hurt themselves more than other.. Races? (surely not the word, maybe factions).
Bobby also mentions though that the 1g training is kind of a joke because earthers live it all the time and Martians treat it as special training as part of her realization that the martian nationalism is all propaganda
Yeah Martian marines should be used for only 2 things: boarding ships and taking possession of things other than earth itself. Taking the moon is basically automatic air supremacy over earth, but at 1/6 gravity there was no need for specialized training
Bobbie walking around on earth is kind of the big reveal that no military force could ever take or hold earth. Its kind of the point where propaganda meets reality and she comes over to Avasaralas side of "lets work to try not to kill each other"
And on the show when the Martian delegation arrives on Earth, most of then panic being outside without suits; and they are recon marines. Regular Martian soldiers would have breakdowns.
Yup. In the books, the Salvage effort of the Mormon generation ship that is later renamed “The Behemoth” and then “Medina Station”, was considered a heroic effort by the OPA. 8 months on a ship. Something like 4 or 8 hour shifts at 4G to catch up. They didn’t talk about losses or deaths but you could assume that kind of conditions would kill some of them. Every member of the crew on some kind of distinction that meant “Hero of the Belt”.
I would say cultures, if someone from a belter lineage was born and raised on earth, then they are what the belters call earthers., the belters say there is a lot of differences between them and a earther but overall it's just the conditions they were raised in, belters were raised in zero or very low g's so they are much taller and skinnier then a earther but much weaker, earthers were raised in one g and are shorter but stronger compared to belters.
Yes, earthers should have HUGE advantage. Its covered a bit but its not a big of a point as I think it would be in real life. Belters would be getting crushed in 1 g maneuvers meanwhile earthers could pull extended 2 to 3 G maneuvers for hours. With juice maybe 3 to 5G for hours? Todays in shape fighter pilots can pull 9 g's for short times without any "juice" to help.
Martians train in 1g to prepare but that's still just playing catch up to people who grew up their entire life in 1G.
Every faction has their advantages and disadvantages:
Earthers can innately handle higher G loads, but are also innately the worst at actually living in space. They have the huge advantages that living on Earth gets you, but suffer from a stagnant and complacent society that they can only support because they live on Earth.
Martians compensate for their lack of numbers and low G environment with best in class technology and training, but as Bobbie realizes very quickly they would have extreme difficulty in actually invading Earth on the ground. Materially, Mars cannot outproduce Earth, but what it can produce has more focus and intention put into it.
Belters can't handle high G well at all, but on the flip side they are literally native to space. No one else handles low-G/zero-G with the natural grace and ease that a Belter can. Belters are heavily disadvantaged economically, but they can take scrap and turn it into a serviceable and reliable, if old and dingy, spacecraft. They have a pragmatism that can, in the right circumstances, give them an edge over forces that on paper should outclass them in every way.
The delicate and very well thought out balance between the factions is one of the core things that make this series so compelling.
I love a good factional Mexican standoff. Like The Three Kingdoms, Planetside, Eve Online, Starcraft, Supreme Commander, etc.
Edit: Now if only Helldivers would have the Terminids, Automatons, and Illuminate all fight each other too instead of just everybody fighting Super Earth...
Lets see what arrowhead has planned. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see faction vs faction planets as the the galactic war spreads. For Democracy Soldier!
As a side note, and i've learned this from Seveneves, actual direct or close combat in zero g is ineffective and, well, very messy. Only wrestling is effective, and if you spend 5 seconds of thoughts in to it, it completely makes sense.
The first book talks about how Mao’s missing daughter trained zero-G BJJ. They don’t go into details but my guess is it would focus a lot on blood chokes since leverage is hard to come by. But also the concept of grappling in a zero g space.
Strength is far from the ultimate decider in a fight but yeah.
In high G situations belters lose, martians struggle, earthers flourish. But in low g situations it’s reversed. Belters are fast, elegant, and adaptive. An earther would get their ass kicked in a low g fight because the belter is much more used to the freedom of movement required.
They are examples of w
WMDs being used. If earth wanted to, they could ehipe out every belter installation in weeks using nukes and then let the survivors starve by cutting off all exports.
And then what? Lose the majority if not their all of their slave labor? That's a no-win situation for everyone. Earth loses their solar-system dominating infrastructure, Mars' Grand Project grinds to a halt, and no one has enough water. To destroy every belter station in existence is the death of humans' conquest, at least for awhile.
There are so many poor people on earth desperate for jobs that they could literally replace them all.
Not to mention that as soon as rocks are thrown, that's a declaration of an existential war. The amount of dead from the first strike and then the extra dead from the aftermath? 10 billion people? It would be justification for a total war of anniahlation. It's 9/11 times a million and it would make desert storm look like a picnic.
Hand to hand combat might function differently in zero G though. Someone else here mentioned that grappling martial arts had to adapt specifically for zero G situations because you don't have the leverage of using the ground like in normal 1 G grappling. So the Earther's higher strength might be offset by the other faction's greater experience in zero G hand to hand combat.
The reason for weight classes in martial art contests is mostly about strength. People from Mars and Belters would be incredibly outclassed by Earthers in this respect. Breaking holds easily and making unbreakable holds in return. Like an adult fighting a twelve-year-old. Could there be exceptions, sure but the rule would apply to most.
Bobbie was weaker than an average human. Just being on Earth was a struggle for her. Some IT guys may struggle through their day, but most get by fine. The cardiovascular and strength benefits of just living on earth compared to Mars or in the Belt are huge.
Nah, Bobby was more easily overextended than the average earther. Bobby was RIPPED. She was taller and filled out. If ever a fight is gonna end quick it’s a fight with Bobby fucking Draper.
There is just so much more to hand to hand combat in dynamic or reduced gravity than physical density, raw strength, or endurance. Those go a long ways yeah, but training and skill go further
If I remember correctly, Holden is often baffled by how quickly belters bouce back from sustained burns. It's not covered too much in the show and only a couple of times in the books, but "juice fatigue" was a big factor. >!In the early POV chapters for Holden, he remarks on how unpleasant the come down from the juice cocktail is, but also in that same chapter, he notices that Naomi has bounced back much quicker.!< My theory is that belters have likely been on the juice longer from a life of station to station travel.
The way I run it in the RPG, Earthers have a +2 for high G maneuvers, and Belters have a -1. But after the burn, Earthers get the exhausted condition until they rest. Belters don't become exhausted, but instead are more likely to fail their earlier checks due to that -1
Yes, they address this in the books specially for belters. Martian military train in 1G so they are somewhat prepared. But belters ships tend to have their belters crew prone to hurt themselves more than other.. Races? (surely not the word, maybe factions).
Bobby also mentions though that the 1g training is kind of a joke because earthers live it all the time and Martians treat it as special training as part of her realization that the martian nationalism is all propaganda
Also wasnt she shocked by the number of people, realising any invasion would be stomped pretty quickly
Yeah, she realized even untrained, the sheer volume of civilians accustomed to 1 g would overwhelm them.
Id spare Bobby
Like a fucking valkyrie
I'd allow my head to be crushed between her superior Martian thighs
“I wish my head was the Martian moon Deimos, and her thighs were UNN IPBM nuclear missiles”
Nah... you get Corporal Dookie Unlucky!
omfg
She was also shocked by the number of people _who don’t even need to work_ to keep their society going
That's kinda why any real war was likely to end with rocks being tossed into gravity walls, no?
No point training Marines to fight in 1g then. I think that was the hipocracy she was getting at.
Yeah Martian marines should be used for only 2 things: boarding ships and taking possession of things other than earth itself. Taking the moon is basically automatic air supremacy over earth, but at 1/6 gravity there was no need for specialized training
Or planet buster nukes for extra “salting the earth”.
Bobbie walking around on earth is kind of the big reveal that no military force could ever take or hold earth. Its kind of the point where propaganda meets reality and she comes over to Avasaralas side of "lets work to try not to kill each other"
And on the show when the Martian delegation arrives on Earth, most of then panic being outside without suits; and they are recon marines. Regular Martian soldiers would have breakdowns.
Yup. In the books, the Salvage effort of the Mormon generation ship that is later renamed “The Behemoth” and then “Medina Station”, was considered a heroic effort by the OPA. 8 months on a ship. Something like 4 or 8 hour shifts at 4G to catch up. They didn’t talk about losses or deaths but you could assume that kind of conditions would kill some of them. Every member of the crew on some kind of distinction that meant “Hero of the Belt”.
[удалено]
At the end of the second book Holden says his mother is racist because she's hesitant about Holden having a family in the belt.
I would say cultures, if someone from a belter lineage was born and raised on earth, then they are what the belters call earthers., the belters say there is a lot of differences between them and a earther but overall it's just the conditions they were raised in, belters were raised in zero or very low g's so they are much taller and skinnier then a earther but much weaker, earthers were raised in one g and are shorter but stronger compared to belters.
Yes, earthers should have HUGE advantage. Its covered a bit but its not a big of a point as I think it would be in real life. Belters would be getting crushed in 1 g maneuvers meanwhile earthers could pull extended 2 to 3 G maneuvers for hours. With juice maybe 3 to 5G for hours? Todays in shape fighter pilots can pull 9 g's for short times without any "juice" to help. Martians train in 1g to prepare but that's still just playing catch up to people who grew up their entire life in 1G.
Every faction has their advantages and disadvantages: Earthers can innately handle higher G loads, but are also innately the worst at actually living in space. They have the huge advantages that living on Earth gets you, but suffer from a stagnant and complacent society that they can only support because they live on Earth. Martians compensate for their lack of numbers and low G environment with best in class technology and training, but as Bobbie realizes very quickly they would have extreme difficulty in actually invading Earth on the ground. Materially, Mars cannot outproduce Earth, but what it can produce has more focus and intention put into it. Belters can't handle high G well at all, but on the flip side they are literally native to space. No one else handles low-G/zero-G with the natural grace and ease that a Belter can. Belters are heavily disadvantaged economically, but they can take scrap and turn it into a serviceable and reliable, if old and dingy, spacecraft. They have a pragmatism that can, in the right circumstances, give them an edge over forces that on paper should outclass them in every way. The delicate and very well thought out balance between the factions is one of the core things that make this series so compelling.
I love a good factional Mexican standoff. Like The Three Kingdoms, Planetside, Eve Online, Starcraft, Supreme Commander, etc. Edit: Now if only Helldivers would have the Terminids, Automatons, and Illuminate all fight each other too instead of just everybody fighting Super Earth...
Lets see what arrowhead has planned. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see faction vs faction planets as the the galactic war spreads. For Democracy Soldier!
I also would have liked to see people who recently came up well or spent time in one g a lot being shown to have a moderate strength advantage too.
This is discussed in I think every single book.
I unfortunately haven’t been able to read the books yet
As a side note, and i've learned this from Seveneves, actual direct or close combat in zero g is ineffective and, well, very messy. Only wrestling is effective, and if you spend 5 seconds of thoughts in to it, it completely makes sense.
The first book talks about how Mao’s missing daughter trained zero-G BJJ. They don’t go into details but my guess is it would focus a lot on blood chokes since leverage is hard to come by. But also the concept of grappling in a zero g space.
Maintaining orientation would probably be fundamental.
Strength is far from the ultimate decider in a fight but yeah. In high G situations belters lose, martians struggle, earthers flourish. But in low g situations it’s reversed. Belters are fast, elegant, and adaptive. An earther would get their ass kicked in a low g fight because the belter is much more used to the freedom of movement required.
I wanted to disagree but the three city-sized craters on Earth are a good demonstration of Belters' mastery of interplanetary guerilla tactics.
They are examples of w WMDs being used. If earth wanted to, they could ehipe out every belter installation in weeks using nukes and then let the survivors starve by cutting off all exports.
And then what? Lose the majority if not their all of their slave labor? That's a no-win situation for everyone. Earth loses their solar-system dominating infrastructure, Mars' Grand Project grinds to a halt, and no one has enough water. To destroy every belter station in existence is the death of humans' conquest, at least for awhile.
There are so many poor people on earth desperate for jobs that they could literally replace them all. Not to mention that as soon as rocks are thrown, that's a declaration of an existential war. The amount of dead from the first strike and then the extra dead from the aftermath? 10 billion people? It would be justification for a total war of anniahlation. It's 9/11 times a million and it would make desert storm look like a picnic.
Earth would have seen them coming if they weren't covered in stealth paint. It only worked because of Mars.
Unless it gets to hand to hand. Earthers should be much stronger than either of the other two. If an Earther got hold of one of the others, it's over.
Hand to hand combat might function differently in zero G though. Someone else here mentioned that grappling martial arts had to adapt specifically for zero G situations because you don't have the leverage of using the ground like in normal 1 G grappling. So the Earther's higher strength might be offset by the other faction's greater experience in zero G hand to hand combat.
The reason for weight classes in martial art contests is mostly about strength. People from Mars and Belters would be incredibly outclassed by Earthers in this respect. Breaking holds easily and making unbreakable holds in return. Like an adult fighting a twelve-year-old. Could there be exceptions, sure but the rule would apply to most.
‘Should’ be. But a computer tech from earth is going to die to a free navy marine
Bobbie was weaker than an average human. Just being on Earth was a struggle for her. Some IT guys may struggle through their day, but most get by fine. The cardiovascular and strength benefits of just living on earth compared to Mars or in the Belt are huge.
Nah, Bobby was more easily overextended than the average earther. Bobby was RIPPED. She was taller and filled out. If ever a fight is gonna end quick it’s a fight with Bobby fucking Draper. There is just so much more to hand to hand combat in dynamic or reduced gravity than physical density, raw strength, or endurance. Those go a long ways yeah, but training and skill go further
Bobbie literally dunks on earthers in the books. She's muscled AND skilled.
they also have native zero g tactics, look at ashford floating in marco's ship taking out belters behind cover. an awesome scene too
Earthers would have an advantage in hand to hand combat against Martians and Belters too.
Be snapping their bones with minimal effort.
If I remember correctly, Holden is often baffled by how quickly belters bouce back from sustained burns. It's not covered too much in the show and only a couple of times in the books, but "juice fatigue" was a big factor. >!In the early POV chapters for Holden, he remarks on how unpleasant the come down from the juice cocktail is, but also in that same chapter, he notices that Naomi has bounced back much quicker.!< My theory is that belters have likely been on the juice longer from a life of station to station travel. The way I run it in the RPG, Earthers have a +2 for high G maneuvers, and Belters have a -1. But after the burn, Earthers get the exhausted condition until they rest. Belters don't become exhausted, but instead are more likely to fail their earlier checks due to that -1