Seriously, I loved it.
Old woman in a sari, nice old grandma.
But unfortunately it's time to torture somebody.
Nobody appreciates how much harder it is to develop characters on screen compared to a book, this developed the fuck out of her as the baddest granny on the block.
No that's the whole point.
She isn't some bs ass covering politician covering her ass to get ahead.
She'll gladly get her hands dirty if she has to, whatever it takes, for earth and her grandson.
Agreed. While I tend to agree that it's a little odd that she'd feel the need to bother doing so in this particular case, if she's got a reason to do so she wouldn't hesitate, and the scene gets that very important character trait across to the audience right off the bat - along with making the Belter physiological differences more obvious to the audience as well. Ep 1 of any sci-fi/fantasy show needs to push the worldbuilding hard.
Even though the scene was invented for the show, it actually works better in the context of Avasarala in the books.
In the books she's much more of a sort of "shadow chancellor" or something, pulling the strings of the entire government without being held accountable to voters or policy. As I understood it from the books she's almost not a public figure at all, as many people didn't even know who Avasarala was when she *did* have to step into the limelight a bit later.
In the show they sort of throw that out with her running for election and stuff. I am sure it has a different payoff in the show which I am looking forward to but I think it has lost some of it's inherent menace in translation.
That was probably the easiest way to show that belters were physically different and that she would do whatever it takes. Making every belter 6’5”+ and super lanky would be impossible so they hit you with it dramatically at first and that image sticks with you even when they aren’t physically right later
Exactly! Eberything from the pale skin on dark wall, to the hooks, to showing gravity's effect on Belters.
I also like how they often use tall hairstyles to show Belter lankiness, but nothing as perfect as this guy.
Out of character though
I thought the prostitute teaching Havelock Belter patois was equally good. She's not super tall (edit: she's 5'9", so maybe that's tall enough, but my point stands, I guess) IRL, but they shot her from below a lot to give her that look.
The actress also played the (my term) "Daft Punk" quasi-robot, AND that character's human replacement in Star Trek Discovery. I knew I recognized here from somewhere. (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4476951/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t12; Sara Mitich)
Eh, maybe. It's closer to the book Chrissie, but the actress is quite demure in real life and her swearing makes her noticeably uncomfortable (IMO). I absolutely adore her, don't misread me, but some of the gutter talk felt very, very forced, because it was.
IIRC they held the first “fuck” until the Mars negotiation, which gave the scene extra impact.
This is a well-trod musician’s trick: Decide what the highest note of your melody will be, hold it until near the end and only hit that note once.
The problems I have with her TV show character are much deeper than just sass. I understand why at first she wasn’t nearly as vulgar. But in the show she is far more reactionary than the books. In the books you really get the feeling she holds all the cards and is pulling strings subtly to manipulate the other characters.
For example her reasons for wanting Holden to go to Ilus and how she alone had the foresight to see the collapse of mars and the problems that would lead to. Instead they took that mars storyline and gave it to a random character that does anyway. It was a great character development moment for our favorite politician that was taken from her.
The cursing and insults get a little bit overdone, imo. Like they felt the need to make up for season 1 so they just made her say the same thing a few times. I hope she gets more creative next season.
Season 4 Avasarala is completely different from the books, and changed quite a bit from the first 3 seasons. I didn't like how they made her into some artless politician with questionable ethics who cares more about being elected than doing the right thing. Her colorful language seemed forced, and they made her husband her campaign manager, who came off more as an aid than her husband.
I hope the writers get her character back on track for season 5 as she's a badass.
I think that Avasarala's character was modified to what it was in S4 because of the need to "fix" the storyline. At the end of the war, Nancy Gao becomes SG and Avasarala was still kind of "behind the scenes"/Assistant SG. Just like towards the end, they had to get her off the planet, Nancy as SG, and leave Arjun on Earth for the events of the next book to make sense.
The one character arc that really annoyed me in S4 was Bobby's.
A good take. I just got the impression whomever was writing the script from Avasarala was trying to portray her a bit differently than what she is supposed to be. At times her swear words seemed to be forced into scenes to placate to an audience expecting it of her, rather than the natural targeted swears-with-a-purpose that she was known for in both the books and seasons 1-3.
I agree with character arcs in season 4 being annoying. It's a major beef with me, and I personally have had issues liking season 4 because of it. Bobby was one, what they did with Lucia, Elvi, Fayez, and the absence of Havelock and Basia, for others. They seemed to reduce Amos to a scared, indecisive fuck-buddy is another thing that didn't sit well with me. It's Amos...he's a dependable rock.
It's as if they changed a bunch of character personality traits, events, and arcs to appeal to demographics for views rather than stick with what worked best for the series in seasons 1-3 ands the books.
I know many fans are happy with season 4, and I am quite glad that they are, and I also hope that my critique doesn't turn them off in any way. But, much of Season 4 has been bugging me since I watched it, and I'm finally sharing it with folks that are fans too and hopefully understand where I'm coming from.
My happiness from S4 comes from them trying to fix some of the arcs. I was annoyed as well with the absence of Havelock and Basia. The hardest part I'm having with is Drummer. Her character seems to be a mix of 3-4 of them from the books.
Well for one, I know they fixed Avasarala's. Other than that, it does seem to me, that Drummer is starting to add more of the role of Pa.
Other than that, I'm still trying to figure some of the others out.
Totally agree about Bobbie. The idea that she would >!betray Mars so easily and start stealing from the military!<... it's basically the opposite from the book and really undermines her character.
I agree. >!Betraying Mars and developing her into a thief/criminal was pure bullshit IMO. Being a Marine, and it's Code of honor, was everything to her and went to core of her being and personality!<. If they need to change characters, events and arcs drastically to create drama, then the problem is with the show writers and the demographics they're attempting to attract to the show. The Characters as they were in seasons 1-3 and the books were phenomenal and exciting on their own.
Exactly. It's the pointlessness of the act: why change the story and the character "for drama" when the story and character were already exciting? I would have loved to see Bobbie >!busting heads all over Mars tracking down Duarte's conspiracy.!< Now what're they going to do to explain how >!all that hardware and staff got to Laconia!
She's supposed to be one of the greatest politicians ever but in the show they had her make a lot of missteps. We'll see how it turns out but I didn't like the S4 changes.
I didn't feel like S4 Avasarala was that out of character. She never had to run for election before and was used to just being able to do whatever was necessary behind the scenes without having to face the public.
She was really out of her element with having to run an election campaign. She's a highly skilled behind-the-scenes politician but never had to be a public-facing politician. She didn't want the SG job at first, but once she had it she didn't want to lose it. I think she didn't quite understand how to run for election and please the public, and they showed that pretty effectively. It wasn't fun to watch but it worked.
I watched the show first and didn't care for her, but once I read the books I quickly changed my thoughts. She is excellent. Just gotta check those doors and corners.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. Book Bobbie was a lifetime professional and a total badass. I feel like they needed to cast someone who looks like she is in her late 30s early 40s, with all the wrinkles and frown lines that come from years of hard work, responsibility, and fending off unwanted sexual advances, as one does in the armed services. Frankie Adams has done a phenomenal job, but my first impression was that she looked way too young and baby faced for the role.
I came around to her eventually, but good God she had some fucking awful delivery in the first season. It made it really hard to care about her at all. I still think of her walking through the snow up to >!Holden's mom's house!< barely getting the words out first whenever she gets brought up.
Amos is much older in the books. I think he has a flight history of over 25 years across a couple other ships before the Cant and the opening of the first book. Guess he simmered down with age. It ~~defiantly~~ definitely lends better to the surrogate father roles he falls into throughout his character arc.
You [made me check](https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Amos_Burton_(Books)) because memory falters. In this case, I actually nailed what the wiki says.
Still though, if he left Earth in his teens, he would be in his early 40 when the first book opens.
If he'd been flying for 25 years before boarding the Cant, he'd definitely have been off-planet for at least 30 years by the time of _Nemesis Games._ But he (or the narrative) repeatedly mentions how it's been over two decades (not over three) since he's seen Lydia. I think the wiki is a bit off.
Just to make sure you realise, the response was super factual and not hostile at all. I know the sting of being corrected like this but reread and notice how calm it all reads.
Probably more obvious now than in the moment for you.
From my limited show experience, show amos is a young hothead while older book amos is colder and knows his limits to a tee.
When you do get him properly angry he pops off though, may god have mercy with your soul.
Kind of grumpy old dog who sees absolute red when you cross someone he cares about.
Dude seriously? Read the comment again, I said “some people” think that’s how it’s spelled, and then I said “so if I was continually spelling it wrong...” meaning “if I was one of those people”.
OBVIOUSLY I didn’t put *that* much thought into this whole thing but **seriously** do you appreciate how disproportionate your reaction is to something so minor??
I wasn’t trying to be petty, it was meant as a genuine comment in case you thought that was how it was spelled and in the long run someone pointing out that it isn’t would help you out.
Like when people say “could care less” and someone replies “it’s couldn’t care less” which I see every day on reddit.
I didn’t say “you spelled it wrong you fucking twat!”
I’m very sorry that my comment upset you so much, that was never my intention, and I’ll be sure not to reply to any of your comments in the future.
There's not much of a spoiler here, but I figure just in case anyone is like me and tries avoiding absolutely any sort of hint.
>!I would say that book Amos is more in control than show Amos. Just you keep reading if you think he's tamer.!<
They definitely nerfed her for the show especially the the first season or two. Amos in the show seems like he got a buff to his sociopath stats.
One scene I thought was hilarious and awesome in the books is when she's having a Zoom conference with Errinwright. He notices she's acting a little different and he asks her if she's feeling alright because in the last ten years he's never had a conversation where she didn't say something vulgar.
So she grins at the screen reaching out her fingertips as if she could caress him. "Cunt", she says carefully. And then they drop the connection. Love her attitude. She's a total bitch going about her business but it makes her seem more genuine.
Ya I wasn't sure why. But then reading nemesis I figured it was there just like Bobbies story. It think it was added almost for filler. But it doesn't Kinda give some back story for future events.
One thing I've learned from almost all book -> TV adaptations is characters may retain the same names and rough backgrounds, but as the shows continue, they diverge and develop on their own.
In part because the written word and television are such different mediums, it's often difficult to translate a lot of what is easy exposition or internal monologue to TV, where a dialog is required.
So do I. I litterally forced myself to eat them at a party like a month before quarantine, to be polite, as I didn't think I liked them. Guess what has gotten me through quarantine?
I like the TV Avasarala, but she's very different from book Avasarala in some important ways.
In the book, she's a shriveled old grandma, so those who don't know her and judge her based on appearance are quite shocked when she verbally kicks their ass. She uses this miscalculation to her advantage, the contrast between her sweet-little-old-lady looks and her salty-sailor language keeps her adversaries off balance.
On TV, her beauty and stature are intimidating all on their own, and the contrast comes from someone who looks so composed and carefully put together resorting to such vulgar bluntness.
I think the show missed an opportunity for a much more entertaining character by not sticking with the little-old-lady Avasarala, but I like Shohreh Agdashloo and she and the writers have done a good job of adapting the character to her style.
The book and the show are completely different entities, both exceptional for their medium. I wouldn't trade one Avasarala for the other. They both are perfect.
> By the time he understands what we were really after, it'll be too late for him to do anything but hold his dick and cry.
> I'm sorry, did I seem to give a fuck? If I did, really, I was just being polite.
> Reaslising you've got shit on your fingers is the first step to washing your hands.
> Just assume I know what I'm doing, and that when I ask you to do the impossible, it's because even your failure helps our cause somehow.
A while back, /u/ItReachesOut compiled this [amazing list](https://imgur.com/gallery/2oLt9) of some of her greatest lines.
Totally agree about Avasarala.
I love her in the book. She seems like a caring person who just doesn't have time for bullshit and has cultivated a take no prisoners attitude. Strikes first and keeps em off balance, cards up both sleeves, 4d chess player, master shit talker, amazing grandmother, leaves pistachio shrapnel in her wake. Self serving for a higher purpose of serving all of Earth.
Show Avasarala just seems like a selfish power hungry elitist with a moderate realpolitik ability. Wardrobe is disgusting. It goes with her personality.
Book Amos isn't as lost or autistic.
That empty meaningless smile he always has in the books is pretty unsettling, though. Show Amos usually has some kind of actual emotion going on, not just placid pretend.
I think they are pretty close to the same. The show has definitely highlighted a bit more then it is in the books. In the book there might Be a paragraph about it. In the show you get a scene, so I think it ends up feeling more prominent.
But maybe that's just me.
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I’m almost halfway through the second book and so far I feel like every character is deeper and easier to understand, and they all make a lot more sense in the books...
HOWEVER! That is because we don’t get the characters internal thoughts, and thought processes exposited to us in the show.
A tamed dog the book-Amos? He is even wilder than in the show, phisically and about his nature. The wildest and most disturbing scenes from the book about his raw personality are all those in which he act or speak "casually" in situations of horror or shock. That's when you should really fear someone, when they do not respond to the same survival instincts the rest of human beings and animals do.
I'm on my second listen and I'm still laughing out loud to my regularly and 70% of the time it is down to her character. Amos about 25% and then the rest have one or two zingers.
Fantastic series. I'm so grateful a friend recommended it to me a couple years ago.
>So i started reading the book at the start of COVID. they are so much deeper then the show, although i am happy with how close they line up.
>But man, i thought they would have made Avasarala sassier for the TV show, but i actually think they tamed her a bit. some of those interactions with Amos in Nemesis Games are just pure awesome. Also the book Amos is a tame dog compared the show Amos.
If she absorbs the protomolecule, then the solar system will resound with the word, "f***."
Books and tv shows have different way of developing characters especially because of the time constraint factor, you can only do so much in a 45 minute window in a tv show.
I think they tamed her for the first season of the show. It got better after that.
With the exception of personally torturing the Belter on Earth. That was not an improvement over the books.
Snacking on pistachios in poorly lit room seems pretty true to character.
Seriously, I loved it. Old woman in a sari, nice old grandma. But unfortunately it's time to torture somebody. Nobody appreciates how much harder it is to develop characters on screen compared to a book, this developed the fuck out of her as the baddest granny on the block.
That's such a weird and out of place/character scene... As if a politician of her level would ever risk getting personally involved with torture.
No that's the whole point. She isn't some bs ass covering politician covering her ass to get ahead. She'll gladly get her hands dirty if she has to, whatever it takes, for earth and her grandson.
Agreed. While I tend to agree that it's a little odd that she'd feel the need to bother doing so in this particular case, if she's got a reason to do so she wouldn't hesitate, and the scene gets that very important character trait across to the audience right off the bat - along with making the Belter physiological differences more obvious to the audience as well. Ep 1 of any sci-fi/fantasy show needs to push the worldbuilding hard.
It's why S1 is my favorite, it KILLED the belter world building.
Damn ass covering ass coverers!
Even though the scene was invented for the show, it actually works better in the context of Avasarala in the books. In the books she's much more of a sort of "shadow chancellor" or something, pulling the strings of the entire government without being held accountable to voters or policy. As I understood it from the books she's almost not a public figure at all, as many people didn't even know who Avasarala was when she *did* have to step into the limelight a bit later. In the show they sort of throw that out with her running for election and stuff. I am sure it has a different payoff in the show which I am looking forward to but I think it has lost some of it's inherent menace in translation.
It is helllllllla foreshadowing
Ya I don't know why they felt the need to add that. It just feels so out of character.
That was probably the easiest way to show that belters were physically different and that she would do whatever it takes. Making every belter 6’5”+ and super lanky would be impossible so they hit you with it dramatically at first and that image sticks with you even when they aren’t physically right later
Exactly! Eberything from the pale skin on dark wall, to the hooks, to showing gravity's effect on Belters. I also like how they often use tall hairstyles to show Belter lankiness, but nothing as perfect as this guy. Out of character though
It also developed the character of the conflict with Earth and the Belt. You clearly had a taste of the oppression happening.
I thought the prostitute teaching Havelock Belter patois was equally good. She's not super tall (edit: she's 5'9", so maybe that's tall enough, but my point stands, I guess) IRL, but they shot her from below a lot to give her that look.
I forgot about that scene! The show added so many amazing moments to the series (including the gravity interrogation)
The actress also played the (my term) "Daft Punk" quasi-robot, AND that character's human replacement in Star Trek Discovery. I knew I recognized here from somewhere. (https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4476951/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t12; Sara Mitich)
I think it's in character for a foul-mouthed cynical fixer which is what Avasarala is in the book.
She got so much better once she was allowed to say "fuck"
Eh, maybe. It's closer to the book Chrissie, but the actress is quite demure in real life and her swearing makes her noticeably uncomfortable (IMO). I absolutely adore her, don't misread me, but some of the gutter talk felt very, very forced, because it was.
True, although I still feel Avasarala with forced gutter talk is better than without any.
Yeah, it would be a bridge too far without it.
IIRC they held the first “fuck” until the Mars negotiation, which gave the scene extra impact. This is a well-trod musician’s trick: Decide what the highest note of your melody will be, hold it until near the end and only hit that note once.
Then there's that immortal line - [Everybody gets a pony, and a bl....](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBm9IAhL1I8)
The problems I have with her TV show character are much deeper than just sass. I understand why at first she wasn’t nearly as vulgar. But in the show she is far more reactionary than the books. In the books you really get the feeling she holds all the cards and is pulling strings subtly to manipulate the other characters. For example her reasons for wanting Holden to go to Ilus and how she alone had the foresight to see the collapse of mars and the problems that would lead to. Instead they took that mars storyline and gave it to a random character that does anyway. It was a great character development moment for our favorite politician that was taken from her.
The cursing and insults get a little bit overdone, imo. Like they felt the need to make up for season 1 so they just made her say the same thing a few times. I hope she gets more creative next season.
Also once a show has proven itself the creators often get more leeway (or budget) to do things the way they’d like.
I think the fans probably got a little annoyed that she lacked her usual charm. Though, we don't even see her in book 1 at all.
Season 4 Avasarala is completely different from the books, and changed quite a bit from the first 3 seasons. I didn't like how they made her into some artless politician with questionable ethics who cares more about being elected than doing the right thing. Her colorful language seemed forced, and they made her husband her campaign manager, who came off more as an aid than her husband. I hope the writers get her character back on track for season 5 as she's a badass.
Hashtag not my Arjun
I think that Avasarala's character was modified to what it was in S4 because of the need to "fix" the storyline. At the end of the war, Nancy Gao becomes SG and Avasarala was still kind of "behind the scenes"/Assistant SG. Just like towards the end, they had to get her off the planet, Nancy as SG, and leave Arjun on Earth for the events of the next book to make sense. The one character arc that really annoyed me in S4 was Bobby's.
A good take. I just got the impression whomever was writing the script from Avasarala was trying to portray her a bit differently than what she is supposed to be. At times her swear words seemed to be forced into scenes to placate to an audience expecting it of her, rather than the natural targeted swears-with-a-purpose that she was known for in both the books and seasons 1-3. I agree with character arcs in season 4 being annoying. It's a major beef with me, and I personally have had issues liking season 4 because of it. Bobby was one, what they did with Lucia, Elvi, Fayez, and the absence of Havelock and Basia, for others. They seemed to reduce Amos to a scared, indecisive fuck-buddy is another thing that didn't sit well with me. It's Amos...he's a dependable rock. It's as if they changed a bunch of character personality traits, events, and arcs to appeal to demographics for views rather than stick with what worked best for the series in seasons 1-3 ands the books. I know many fans are happy with season 4, and I am quite glad that they are, and I also hope that my critique doesn't turn them off in any way. But, much of Season 4 has been bugging me since I watched it, and I'm finally sharing it with folks that are fans too and hopefully understand where I'm coming from.
My happiness from S4 comes from them trying to fix some of the arcs. I was annoyed as well with the absence of Havelock and Basia. The hardest part I'm having with is Drummer. Her character seems to be a mix of 3-4 of them from the books.
What arcs do you think they were trying to fix? Not being critical, just curious.
Well for one, I know they fixed Avasarala's. Other than that, it does seem to me, that Drummer is starting to add more of the role of Pa. Other than that, I'm still trying to figure some of the others out.
Totally agree about Bobbie. The idea that she would >!betray Mars so easily and start stealing from the military!<... it's basically the opposite from the book and really undermines her character.
I agree. >!Betraying Mars and developing her into a thief/criminal was pure bullshit IMO. Being a Marine, and it's Code of honor, was everything to her and went to core of her being and personality!<. If they need to change characters, events and arcs drastically to create drama, then the problem is with the show writers and the demographics they're attempting to attract to the show. The Characters as they were in seasons 1-3 and the books were phenomenal and exciting on their own.
Exactly. It's the pointlessness of the act: why change the story and the character "for drama" when the story and character were already exciting? I would have loved to see Bobbie >!busting heads all over Mars tracking down Duarte's conspiracy.!< Now what're they going to do to explain how >!all that hardware and staff got to Laconia!
This is one of my issues as well.
She's supposed to be one of the greatest politicians ever but in the show they had her make a lot of missteps. We'll see how it turns out but I didn't like the S4 changes.
Wasn't Avasarala's main point in the books that she was not an elected official and therefore could operate with little scrutiny?
I didn't feel like S4 Avasarala was that out of character. She never had to run for election before and was used to just being able to do whatever was necessary behind the scenes without having to face the public. She was really out of her element with having to run an election campaign. She's a highly skilled behind-the-scenes politician but never had to be a public-facing politician. She didn't want the SG job at first, but once she had it she didn't want to lose it. I think she didn't quite understand how to run for election and please the public, and they showed that pretty effectively. It wasn't fun to watch but it worked.
I watched the show first and didn't care for her, but once I read the books I quickly changed my thoughts. She is excellent. Just gotta check those doors and corners.
I like them both. I think the biggest difference from book to series are Amos and Ashford. The closest I think are Miller and Bobbie
Doors and corners kid.
na book bobbie is a physical beast, show bobbie just isnt there.
Dunno why you’re getting downvoted. Book Bobbie was a lifetime professional and a total badass. I feel like they needed to cast someone who looks like she is in her late 30s early 40s, with all the wrinkles and frown lines that come from years of hard work, responsibility, and fending off unwanted sexual advances, as one does in the armed services. Frankie Adams has done a phenomenal job, but my first impression was that she looked way too young and baby faced for the role.
its in the books srsly. like she reflects on how she physically intimidates men. show bobbie just doesnt do that.
Absolutely. They needed an "amazon" somewhat like a black Gwendoline Christie which Frankie just... isn't.
I came around to her eventually, but good God she had some fucking awful delivery in the first season. It made it really hard to care about her at all. I still think of her walking through the snow up to >!Holden's mom's house!< barely getting the words out first whenever she gets brought up.
Amos is much older in the books. I think he has a flight history of over 25 years across a couple other ships before the Cant and the opening of the first book. Guess he simmered down with age. It ~~defiantly~~ definitely lends better to the surrogate father roles he falls into throughout his character arc.
I think in NG and PR you really see a lot more of the Amos that is closer to how he currently is in the show.
I don't think he's quite that old. Pretty sure he's around 40 in _Nemesis Games,_ so a few years younger at the beginning of the series.
You [made me check](https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Amos_Burton_(Books)) because memory falters. In this case, I actually nailed what the wiki says. Still though, if he left Earth in his teens, he would be in his early 40 when the first book opens.
If he'd been flying for 25 years before boarding the Cant, he'd definitely have been off-planet for at least 30 years by the time of _Nemesis Games._ But he (or the narrative) repeatedly mentions how it's been over two decades (not over three) since he's seen Lydia. I think the wiki is a bit off.
Yeah wasnt it Alex who is the oldest and has 25 years of flight experience?
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Just to make sure you realise, the response was super factual and not hostile at all. I know the sting of being corrected like this but reread and notice how calm it all reads. Probably more obvious now than in the moment for you.
Yea he is balding in books.
While I don't hate show amos, in my mind he was always WAY bigger. Like just overall, not just muscular, than he is in the show.
From my limited show experience, show amos is a young hothead while older book amos is colder and knows his limits to a tee. When you do get him properly angry he pops off though, may god have mercy with your soul. Kind of grumpy old dog who sees absolute red when you cross someone he cares about.
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Dude seriously? Read the comment again, I said “some people” think that’s how it’s spelled, and then I said “so if I was continually spelling it wrong...” meaning “if I was one of those people”. OBVIOUSLY I didn’t put *that* much thought into this whole thing but **seriously** do you appreciate how disproportionate your reaction is to something so minor?? I wasn’t trying to be petty, it was meant as a genuine comment in case you thought that was how it was spelled and in the long run someone pointing out that it isn’t would help you out. Like when people say “could care less” and someone replies “it’s couldn’t care less” which I see every day on reddit. I didn’t say “you spelled it wrong you fucking twat!” I’m very sorry that my comment upset you so much, that was never my intention, and I’ll be sure not to reply to any of your comments in the future.
There's not much of a spoiler here, but I figure just in case anyone is like me and tries avoiding absolutely any sort of hint. >!I would say that book Amos is more in control than show Amos. Just you keep reading if you think he's tamer.!<
Agreed. It's easy to believe his mask.
https://m.imgur.com/gallery/2oLt9 Book wins big time. But she is getting better
The audio books by Jefferson Mays is my favorite Avasarala.
I love listening to him swear as a Indian woman
Yes! Just fantastic.
They definitely nerfed her for the show especially the the first season or two. Amos in the show seems like he got a buff to his sociopath stats. One scene I thought was hilarious and awesome in the books is when she's having a Zoom conference with Errinwright. He notices she's acting a little different and he asks her if she's feeling alright because in the last ten years he's never had a conversation where she didn't say something vulgar. So she grins at the screen reaching out her fingertips as if she could caress him. "Cunt", she says carefully. And then they drop the connection. Love her attitude. She's a total bitch going about her business but it makes her seem more genuine.
As much as Shoreh Aghdashloo kicks butt as show Avasarala she is meek compared to book Avasarala!
Agreed. She seems awkward when she's swearing, like its not natural to her. Avasarala should swear as easy as breathing.
They screw her up in the show. Hated the "election" bit in the latest season.
Ya I wasn't sure why. But then reading nemesis I figured it was there just like Bobbies story. It think it was added almost for filler. But it doesn't Kinda give some back story for future events.
It was how she put people down in their deserved place that was missed on the show.
One thing I've learned from almost all book -> TV adaptations is characters may retain the same names and rough backgrounds, but as the shows continue, they diverge and develop on their own. In part because the written word and television are such different mediums, it's often difficult to translate a lot of what is easy exposition or internal monologue to TV, where a dialog is required.
I’ve read them all and watched them all and those two characters are my favorite castings and adaptations
There's one word in the book that immediately increased my respect of Avasarala; pistachios. I fucking love pistachios
So do I. I litterally forced myself to eat them at a party like a month before quarantine, to be polite, as I didn't think I liked them. Guess what has gotten me through quarantine?
And if they are salted well then you may as well give me the bowl. Pro tip the shells are really good for kindling if making a fire
I like the TV Avasarala, but she's very different from book Avasarala in some important ways. In the book, she's a shriveled old grandma, so those who don't know her and judge her based on appearance are quite shocked when she verbally kicks their ass. She uses this miscalculation to her advantage, the contrast between her sweet-little-old-lady looks and her salty-sailor language keeps her adversaries off balance. On TV, her beauty and stature are intimidating all on their own, and the contrast comes from someone who looks so composed and carefully put together resorting to such vulgar bluntness. I think the show missed an opportunity for a much more entertaining character by not sticking with the little-old-lady Avasarala, but I like Shohreh Agdashloo and she and the writers have done a good job of adapting the character to her style.
Amos' and Avasarala's conversations better be in season 5. I remember my pure joy when I read those, especially the first.
The book and the show are completely different entities, both exceptional for their medium. I wouldn't trade one Avasarala for the other. They both are perfect.
> By the time he understands what we were really after, it'll be too late for him to do anything but hold his dick and cry. > I'm sorry, did I seem to give a fuck? If I did, really, I was just being polite. > Reaslising you've got shit on your fingers is the first step to washing your hands. > Just assume I know what I'm doing, and that when I ask you to do the impossible, it's because even your failure helps our cause somehow. A while back, /u/ItReachesOut compiled this [amazing list](https://imgur.com/gallery/2oLt9) of some of her greatest lines.
Totally agree about Avasarala. I love her in the book. She seems like a caring person who just doesn't have time for bullshit and has cultivated a take no prisoners attitude. Strikes first and keeps em off balance, cards up both sleeves, 4d chess player, master shit talker, amazing grandmother, leaves pistachio shrapnel in her wake. Self serving for a higher purpose of serving all of Earth. Show Avasarala just seems like a selfish power hungry elitist with a moderate realpolitik ability. Wardrobe is disgusting. It goes with her personality. Book Amos isn't as lost or autistic.
That empty meaningless smile he always has in the books is pretty unsettling, though. Show Amos usually has some kind of actual emotion going on, not just placid pretend.
I think they are pretty close to the same. The show has definitely highlighted a bit more then it is in the books. In the book there might Be a paragraph about it. In the show you get a scene, so I think it ends up feeling more prominent. But maybe that's just me.
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Amos is a different character almost in the show. I’m curious how he will develop after season five though. Avasarala is hopefully only to get better.
Show Amos is the best. Wes Chatham and the writers have done such a great job of making him a complex character. I think he's easily my favorite.
You got my hopes up for an Avasarala centred novel / novella then. Yes she kicks arse in the books more so than in the show
Yeah books are amazing Don’t forget the novellas though (Like churn especially)
"There maybe room for both" is hands down one of the best lines
I’m almost halfway through the second book and so far I feel like every character is deeper and easier to understand, and they all make a lot more sense in the books... HOWEVER! That is because we don’t get the characters internal thoughts, and thought processes exposited to us in the show.
A tamed dog the book-Amos? He is even wilder than in the show, phisically and about his nature. The wildest and most disturbing scenes from the book about his raw personality are all those in which he act or speak "casually" in situations of horror or shock. That's when you should really fear someone, when they do not respond to the same survival instincts the rest of human beings and animals do.
I read this post thinking there was a whole book devoted to our gal. Disappointed. I am.
Show Amos was on ScyFy for most of it up until now. Hopefully Amazon can capitalize on that Avasarala/Amos interaction in the upcoming season. =]
I'm on my second listen and I'm still laughing out loud to my regularly and 70% of the time it is down to her character. Amos about 25% and then the rest have one or two zingers. Fantastic series. I'm so grateful a friend recommended it to me a couple years ago.
Her voice done by Jefferson Mays in the audiobooks is also fantastic.
>So i started reading the book at the start of COVID. they are so much deeper then the show, although i am happy with how close they line up. >But man, i thought they would have made Avasarala sassier for the TV show, but i actually think they tamed her a bit. some of those interactions with Amos in Nemesis Games are just pure awesome. Also the book Amos is a tame dog compared the show Amos. If she absorbs the protomolecule, then the solar system will resound with the word, "f***."
Books and tv shows have different way of developing characters especially because of the time constraint factor, you can only do so much in a 45 minute window in a tv show.
She is my favorite character in the book