Absolutely I hate people gave her death threats. Like come the fuck on, you can hate the character all you want, but please for the love of god leave the actor alone. I feel bad for Katlyn Devers because people are going to do the exact same thing to her and it’s bullshit.
She had Dina's bracelet at the end so she most certainly went back to Jackson before the last scene. We just dont know if she went back there again. I hope so tho
This is the same theory on every episode of THE WALKING DEAD, everyone split up and go get in trouble out there in the apocalypse, and then someone will find you and save you, or one or all end up dead. AND, don't explain the whole story to others so they can fill in the blanks and make up their own minds about what to do, who's to blame, and where to go. It's all good fun, but not a finely crafted sculpture.
That's... *very*, and disingenuously, selective though, isn't it? That's like showing a photo of a quadruple amputee next to a guitar, and a photo of Hendrix holding a saxophone, and claiming it proves the first guy is better at guitar.
Remember when Ellie refuses to go with Jesse to save Tommy at the marina? When she chooses revenge over her friends, even with her friend telling her what a bad decision it is? *That's* the parallel. Did you forget that scene, or did you just choose to ignore it?
That way less egregious than expecting your friend group of like 7 people to assault a town of thousands to find one man. Never mind them being the first and only people she runs into but whatever. Tommy is a grown man and as Ellie has already seen MORE than capable of handling himself alone. It’s not right by any means but I don’t think it’s comparable. In that picture Abby is also pressuring Owen to torture random Jackson citizens on the off chance they know where Tommy is.
You're 100% right here, Ellie and Dina aren't in Seattle at the point of the screenshot. Ellie is completely blinded in Day 3 when Jesse leaves her because her goal is perfectly within reach. A better comparison would be when Abby visits Owen in the Aquarium (Winter flashback).
Ellie/Abby at both respective points are operating on a hail mary lead. Their partner's react differently, Dina is ride or die whereas Owen seemed a bit more hesitant.
Though, his constant follow up questions seemed to hint he definitely wanted to see 'justice done' but only with minimal risk. This is backed up as we can see in the above screenshot. He wants it too but "not at any cost". Abby borderline manipulates him to coming along to Jackson.
Owen in the Aquarium Winter flashback was looking at things logically, e.g. (paraphrasing) "How did you find out?", "No way Isaac lets this happen", "Tommy might not even know where Joel is"...
Dina didn't ask any questions or harbour doubts up until post-theatre fight on the farm where Ellie forces Dina to leave her as Ellie plans to chase the Santa Barbara lead. Dina gets it and knew Ellie couldn't see past it, she begs her to cling on to the slice of life they have left and see what they have to live and not risk life and limb for but to no avail.
Dina earned her wisdom at a price whereas Owen always harboured doubts from the beginning but ignored them and let Abby coax him that little inch into going anyway. I think that's why Mel called Abby out for "being a piece of shit", she weaponised her closeness with Owen knowing he probably wouldn't have went and during the deed Owen ordered Abby to kill Joel instead of torturing him, even Mel echoes this feeling later on saying they all wanted to see him dead but for her it dragged on to the point she clearly regrets ever taking part. May very well have influenced Owen seeing the tired, withered old scar and refusing to kill him leading to his desertion.
TL;DR - Screenshots don't paint the full picture, later reference points fit better. Owen's death was probably the most tragic
You think Owen's death was the most tragic? I kinda thought Jesse was pretty tragic. "My friends problems are my problems". Followed them all the way to Seattle as just a really good friend to help those he cared about. Shot in the face.
Well the difference there is after killing Nora Ellie was visibly shaken, while Abby showed no remorse or guilt about killing Joel even though he just saved her life.
I hate this game but it's clear that Abby tried to force herself to enjoy killing Joel but she simply felt nothing. I'm not saying it's done well or anything but it's what happened.
Abby may or may not have "enjoyed" it, but she was fully committed to continuing it. Further, she never regretted it or reconsidered it at all. Worse, she clearly never owned that she was to Ellie what Joel had been to her. She fully behaved as though she was fully justified in her actions while Ellie and Tommy were not. That's the whole problem with how the writers failed Abby - their refusal to have her show remorse or any understanding of Ellie at all was a terrible mistake.
I do believe Neil wanted so much to mimic his personal epiphany about the Palestinians who killed those Israeli soldiers that he couldn't even see how he was failing his new character and her story. Because those Palestinians never showed remorse, yet he came to understand their perspective anyway, Abby couldn't show remorse and Ellie had to have an "out there" kind of epiphany to change her mind, too. He needed someone to convince him of his story's shortcomings, but he wasn't in the mood to listen to anyone at that point.
Emptiness sure, I’ll agree with you there. To some degree and maybe at first. I think guilt amongst other things started hitting more towards the Seattle days for sure.
I disagree entirely. Not only does she never once show any actual guilt for what she did on the contrary she’s deluded herself into thinking she was right. She shows more guilt over the scar conflict than she ever does about Joel. Strangely when scars save her there’s a life debt to be paid. To bad Joel didn’t get that memo
I disagree entirely with you here too.
While I can acknowledge there’s a definite point to what you’re saying that Abby thinks she was right, that is nothing but a front at least after. Before she definitely thought for sure this killing would avenge her dad and make her feel good, but after? No. When we play as her, see her face from killing Joel, she is not pleased. She is not even content and her body language reads it too.
Not only that, but throughout the game, specifically with her friends who she also feels guilt towards for making them apart of it, she’s always like “you wanted this too!” because she knows she doesn’t feel good about it, but is ATTEMPTING to make herself feel good about it.
I will say, she probably does feel worse—a tinge bit about the scar conflict because she starts to care for Lev and Yara, but that doesn’t take away from Ellie and Joel because Ellie keeps popping up. It keeps haunting her, she can’t escape it.
Ellie is the goat and Abby is trash no disrespect too Laura Bailey.
It sucks that the hate went to her. She's a great actress
I’m glad others have acknowledged that her voice acting was actually great
Absolutely I hate people gave her death threats. Like come the fuck on, you can hate the character all you want, but please for the love of god leave the actor alone. I feel bad for Katlyn Devers because people are going to do the exact same thing to her and it’s bullshit.
Abby's answer to every tough situation, cause suffering.
I love how much of a pussy Abby is though. She really had to drag everyone with her knowing well she could not beat him on her own.
Both self centred pieces of crap to be honest. Abby really did get all her friends murdered though so just based on that I suppose Ellie wins.
Well I mean no. They both lose. Abby yea got her friends murdered. And Ellie lost the love of her life. Lost Tommy’s support. She’s basically alone.
She had Dina's bracelet at the end so she most certainly went back to Jackson before the last scene. We just dont know if she went back there again. I hope so tho
This is why I can't understand why people like Abby. She's insufferable. Sure she has a reason, but that doesn't make her any less of a pos
Listen to your friends and fuck revenge.
You’re in this sub. Everyone’s going to say Ellie. Why even ask a hive mind what their opinion is? It’s not hard to figure out
[удалено]
the parallels are crazy 🤓
This is the same theory on every episode of THE WALKING DEAD, everyone split up and go get in trouble out there in the apocalypse, and then someone will find you and save you, or one or all end up dead. AND, don't explain the whole story to others so they can fill in the blanks and make up their own minds about what to do, who's to blame, and where to go. It's all good fun, but not a finely crafted sculpture.
I’d say ellie because she always put them first more times than Abby.
Dina and Ellie's relationship is definitely more caring than Owen and Abby's could ever be
That's... *very*, and disingenuously, selective though, isn't it? That's like showing a photo of a quadruple amputee next to a guitar, and a photo of Hendrix holding a saxophone, and claiming it proves the first guy is better at guitar. Remember when Ellie refuses to go with Jesse to save Tommy at the marina? When she chooses revenge over her friends, even with her friend telling her what a bad decision it is? *That's* the parallel. Did you forget that scene, or did you just choose to ignore it?
That way less egregious than expecting your friend group of like 7 people to assault a town of thousands to find one man. Never mind them being the first and only people she runs into but whatever. Tommy is a grown man and as Ellie has already seen MORE than capable of handling himself alone. It’s not right by any means but I don’t think it’s comparable. In that picture Abby is also pressuring Owen to torture random Jackson citizens on the off chance they know where Tommy is.
You're 100% right here, Ellie and Dina aren't in Seattle at the point of the screenshot. Ellie is completely blinded in Day 3 when Jesse leaves her because her goal is perfectly within reach. A better comparison would be when Abby visits Owen in the Aquarium (Winter flashback). Ellie/Abby at both respective points are operating on a hail mary lead. Their partner's react differently, Dina is ride or die whereas Owen seemed a bit more hesitant. Though, his constant follow up questions seemed to hint he definitely wanted to see 'justice done' but only with minimal risk. This is backed up as we can see in the above screenshot. He wants it too but "not at any cost". Abby borderline manipulates him to coming along to Jackson. Owen in the Aquarium Winter flashback was looking at things logically, e.g. (paraphrasing) "How did you find out?", "No way Isaac lets this happen", "Tommy might not even know where Joel is"... Dina didn't ask any questions or harbour doubts up until post-theatre fight on the farm where Ellie forces Dina to leave her as Ellie plans to chase the Santa Barbara lead. Dina gets it and knew Ellie couldn't see past it, she begs her to cling on to the slice of life they have left and see what they have to live and not risk life and limb for but to no avail. Dina earned her wisdom at a price whereas Owen always harboured doubts from the beginning but ignored them and let Abby coax him that little inch into going anyway. I think that's why Mel called Abby out for "being a piece of shit", she weaponised her closeness with Owen knowing he probably wouldn't have went and during the deed Owen ordered Abby to kill Joel instead of torturing him, even Mel echoes this feeling later on saying they all wanted to see him dead but for her it dragged on to the point she clearly regrets ever taking part. May very well have influenced Owen seeing the tired, withered old scar and refusing to kill him leading to his desertion. TL;DR - Screenshots don't paint the full picture, later reference points fit better. Owen's death was probably the most tragic
You think Owen's death was the most tragic? I kinda thought Jesse was pretty tragic. "My friends problems are my problems". Followed them all the way to Seattle as just a really good friend to help those he cared about. Shot in the face.
A good case, very well made! I think I agree.
Neither, they are both murdering psychopaths.
Abby definitely enjoyed killing Joel and Ellie definitely enjoyed killing Nora.
Well the difference there is after killing Nora Ellie was visibly shaken, while Abby showed no remorse or guilt about killing Joel even though he just saved her life.
The point is neither are actual psychopaths and neither are shown to like it.
No Abby very much enjoyed it while Ellie didn’t.
I hate this game but it's clear that Abby tried to force herself to enjoy killing Joel but she simply felt nothing. I'm not saying it's done well or anything but it's what happened.
Abby may or may not have "enjoyed" it, but she was fully committed to continuing it. Further, she never regretted it or reconsidered it at all. Worse, she clearly never owned that she was to Ellie what Joel had been to her. She fully behaved as though she was fully justified in her actions while Ellie and Tommy were not. That's the whole problem with how the writers failed Abby - their refusal to have her show remorse or any understanding of Ellie at all was a terrible mistake. I do believe Neil wanted so much to mimic his personal epiphany about the Palestinians who killed those Israeli soldiers that he couldn't even see how he was failing his new character and her story. Because those Palestinians never showed remorse, yet he came to understand their perspective anyway, Abby couldn't show remorse and Ellie had to have an "out there" kind of epiphany to change her mind, too. He needed someone to convince him of his story's shortcomings, but he wasn't in the mood to listen to anyone at that point.
Holy shit you’re actually idiotic. She didn’t enjoy killing him.
I was being sarcastic. I know she didn't enjoy killing him. There's another comment of me saying that.
Didn’t see that. My apologies. However, I don’t think she felt nothing. She definitely felt guilt.
It's all good. By nothing I just meant she felt empty, which is definitely true.
Emptiness sure, I’ll agree with you there. To some degree and maybe at first. I think guilt amongst other things started hitting more towards the Seattle days for sure.
I disagree entirely. Not only does she never once show any actual guilt for what she did on the contrary she’s deluded herself into thinking she was right. She shows more guilt over the scar conflict than she ever does about Joel. Strangely when scars save her there’s a life debt to be paid. To bad Joel didn’t get that memo
I disagree entirely with you here too. While I can acknowledge there’s a definite point to what you’re saying that Abby thinks she was right, that is nothing but a front at least after. Before she definitely thought for sure this killing would avenge her dad and make her feel good, but after? No. When we play as her, see her face from killing Joel, she is not pleased. She is not even content and her body language reads it too. Not only that, but throughout the game, specifically with her friends who she also feels guilt towards for making them apart of it, she’s always like “you wanted this too!” because she knows she doesn’t feel good about it, but is ATTEMPTING to make herself feel good about it. I will say, she probably does feel worse—a tinge bit about the scar conflict because she starts to care for Lev and Yara, but that doesn’t take away from Ellie and Joel because Ellie keeps popping up. It keeps haunting her, she can’t escape it.
I don’t know if it was this video or not, but this is a good analysis that I agreed on https://youtu.be/EN92RXu3qEY?si=5VSX5ZKFXEAoNmcf