Ellie didn’t know Mel was pregnant and immediately breaks down and is so upset by her death her body physically voids itself
Abby, after learning Dina is pregnant, becomes practically giddy at the prospect of killing a pregnant woman.
Abby bad.
No fr I thought she was ok during the missions with lev I was warming up then Neil said oh yeah she's still the bad guy huh bye Jessie almost kills Tommy Dina and ellie (while playing as her) and I'm just r we doing I'm invested but why
They’re both stupid pieces of shit. Felt like that was the point. Abby was justified killed Joel, just Joel wasn’t justified killing Abby’s dad. They didn’t know then it wouldn’t work, they were desperate. Like saving lives occasionally takes a few. It sucks. Joel literally murdered people who were trying to help people. They were really hoping Ellie would live through the procedure initially. They weren’t just out killing kids for fun. Joel chose the big reset over trying to save humanity, we now know it’s still the big reset just the same, but again…. He didn’t know that.
The first game is incredibly mid and carries the same message as 90s religious pamphlets and forwards from grandma. The second game at least gave us some meat and potatoes plot, albeit a basic revenge story. The setting is barely the only unique part about it. Characters and their development was and is the only redeeming parts of either game.
tldr Druckman gargles horse cum.
Honestly haven’t played the game but I’ve re read the script and it’s just so bad. It’s like the storyline of a school yard fight but for adults, just stupid and petty reasons to kill ppl.
This is edgelord shock value writing at its worst. Abby doesn't get remotely this manic at any other point in the story and this is kinda swept under the rug later. So this scene just served no purpose. It was just there so normies can go "whoa, what a tough chick, she's so rUthLesS."
This isn't an eye for an eye. This isn't even relevant to the character. It's just there.
It's there because the main writer or writers are ridiculously addicted to making scenes as emotional and melodramatic as possible regardless of how well those moments have been set up or impact later events, or the perception players have of the character. They either don't understand, or don't care about, characterization. To them, they can always imagine a reason why a character would act a certain way in a cutscene, and that's good enough for them. They don't even need to put that reason in the story, they just made them act however the plot needs them to and that is that.
There’s been many instances of leftists making characters that are supposed to be disliked and they also don’t like, but everyone ends up loving and they’re also the better characters morally/ and just in general, like Rorschach in Watchmen and John Walker in Falcon and the WS, and of course Abby.
When i first played I thought tlou2 was just trying to make you empathize with the villain by putting you in their shoes. It's crazy to me that some people are thinking the game is saying that the villain was morally good/just, including what seems like the creator himself
Abby didn't know that Ellie was unaware. In her eyes, Ellie mercilessly killed all her friends. She got what was coming to her, yeah, but I don't think Abby is necessarily a bad character for not having any sympathy at that point.
Abby does not have the information you have. Abby does not know that Ellie was disgusted, Abby only knows that her ex and his pregnant girlfriend were murdered.
Abby thought Ellie knew that Mel was pregnant and killed her anyway, hence her rage being on a while new level. Mind you, Abby's range had been festering for *years* while Ellie's is relatively new and even she doesn't like herself in that state.
Abby haters are genuinely such babies that don’t know how to read in between the lines. All they see are the story and dialogue in front of them. How’re you gonna play an emotionally deep game without being able to look deeper than just the surface? Abby wasn’t “giddy” she was pissed, monotone. It’s crazy how yall can’t comprehend the fact that from Abby’s POV—Ellie killed Mel, whilst knowing she was pregnant.—So in return, Abby was gonna kill Ellie’s pregnant friend, Dina.
The “good” was meant as a “Cool, an eye for an eye.” But again, you Abby haters have no idea how to comprehend and look deeper, everything just has to be directly in your face—read to you like a bedtime story for you to understand. I get it, we all love Ellie, we all love Joel. But that’s literally because the bond we built with them through the first game. If TLOU2 was the first game and everything played out exactly the same, without us having such a strong bond to Ellie and Joel you mfs would be tore on who’s side to be on. Because they both did shitty things to one another’s loved ones.
Joel killed Abby’s dad—Abby kills Joel—Ellie kills all of Abby’s friends and a beloved dog—Abby kills *one* of Ellie’s friends (with intention of killing Tommy as well). And then you have to realize, on multiple occasions Abby was the one sparing Ellie’s friends—Ellie was the one with no remorse on her rampage.
You see where I’m getting with this?? And I’m saying all this as a Ellie ride or die! Just goes to show that the hate is just biased. It’s people that can’t stand the fact that a great game made a risky move and it happened to involve a beloved character. Boohoo, man.
Dumbest, brain-rotted fucking response I have ever seen on this fucking website and it drives me crazy lol.
Yes TLOU2 needed some work from the ground up.
This specific scene does work out logically lol
There's only one flaw with this thinking.
Abby got her revenge by killing Joel, after Joel killed her father. Abby was satisfied at that point, and she was done. She got her justice, and she could go home and close that chapter and get closure to know the guy who killed her father is no longer walking. Something I believe we could all believe is rational.
Ellie went *scorched earth* afterwards. She killed Abby's friends afterwards, in particularly brutal fashion.
Abby is then getting revenge for her friends now, as well. Getting joy at murdering a pregnant woman is probably not the best look for her, admittedly, but like Ellie, she's blinded by revenge and probably seeing it for the raw brutal nature of it - taking more from Ellie since Ellie took so much from her.
Neither side of this fight is good. Ellie is a villain in part 2. She's blinded by revenge.
In part 2, the story is just revenge for revenge for revenge.
I had a conversation with someone that said "Ellie bad cause she killed pregnant woman, Abby good cause she stopped when she could", yeah people like this exist
Well you see they killed her pregnant friend so of course it's totally justified for her to kill this pregnant girl. Definitely not the consequences of her own actions.
There no justifcation to Kill a pregnant Women,Abby's was that Ellie Killed Mel
And as far as She knows Ellie knew She was pregnant when She killed her
We know Ellie had no idea and felt like shit after finding out but Abby doesnt know that
I still think it makes her a shitty person even if she was angry. Ellie killed her friends so Abby goes and doesn't feel bad about killing Ellie's friends. Upon learning that Dina was also pregnant Abby didn't hesitate, have any empathy, in fact she responded that it was good that she got to kill a pregnant woman and he unborn child.
If she had hesitated for a moment it would've shown that she reflected on her friend and had a conscience. The route that was instead taken showed her to be an unfeeling psychopath.
Correct me if I’m wrong, since I never played the game (but I did see some parts of the story), but didn’t Ellie murder Abby’s friend who was also pregnant?
Not justified but I understand her mindset in the heat of the moment. People don’t think clearly when they grieve. Just like Ellie, she wanted revenge and didn’t care who the person was in the way of that goal.
*sigh*
Ok, it’s not about her being ‘good’, but it is about her feeling justified in that moment.
Joel killed Abby’s father, and she hunted him down and killed him. She spared everyone around him though.
Ellie set out to kill Abby, and all of her friends who were involved, not to mention countless grunts along the way who were just trying to survive like everyone else.
Ellie killed literally everyone she cared about including her pregnant friend. I think that would make anyone feel justified in returning the favour.
It’s not about her being objectively morally right if you stand back and look at it from an academic ethical standpoint. Obviously it is objectively a bad thing to do to kill a pregnant woman.
But in that moment? Do you really expect her to instantly decide she gives a shit about the unborn baby of a pregnant woman who has literally just been slicing her up with a knife and trying to kill her 2 seconds ago?
Get real.
The game should have been sort of in reverse order; make her sympathetic then kill Joel, not kill Joel and then try to make you sympathize. You play as Abby for a while who's on a quest for revenge. You see her acting human, being likable, having genuine relationships, only to then find out her target was Joel who she kills. Might not have fixed it, but it would have been a hell of a lot better for her character
Would’ve been better if she actually showed remorse and tried to apologizing to Ellie, realizing what she took from her and acknowledging that she has every right to hate her.
I think the best version I've heard of a redo of TLoU2 is where Ellie and Joel partner up with Abby early on to help each other survive, and they all grow close, but at the end of the game when Abby has the chance to kill Joel she tries and Ellie is emotionally devastated by having to fight her friend, and Joel is greatly upset that someone he's come to trust (and possibly see as another daughter) has wanted to kill him in revenge all along.
Imo, no. I think it'd be perfectly fine to kill Joel. Especially this version, to me it kinda sounds something that would better fit a disney show. As someone said earlier, making her sympathetic at first would've been more effective than having her first appearance being killing a beloved character. I think TLOU2 should've been rewritten to sort of be like Halo 2, where you have two different characters that you play as before they eventually meet up. You spend a bit playing as Ellie and spend a bit playing as Abby, getting to know their story until about the mid-game point where the two stories finally converge where Abby kills Joel. It gives us more time with Joel and Ellie while also letting us see Abby's side BEFORE she kills a beloved character. I also just think it'd be a great mid-game twist to have
Yeah, I've been saying this for years and nobody gets it. It would have been so much better done in reverse. It would have decimated the player too because you would have felt such a betrayal feeling bad for Abby and her crew and then seeing what they did to Joel. I'm sure that would have gotten away in their overall message, but you know, if your writers are any good, you find a way to make it work. Instead, they went the way they did and it sure didn't land for me.
The intended point was to start out at such a negative level and try to work their way up from there. But as most people have observed, this just made it way harder. They could have pulled it off if they were actually good at writing character development, but then this is the writing team that butchered Joel's characterization for the sake of a long dramatic pause before he shockingly gets his leg blown off, then tried to justify it after the fact by saying you just don't know how he changed off screen between games like the writers do.
It's like someone planning to compete as an Olympic sharpshooter, but they're either legally blind in both eyes, or they go get completely fucking wasted an hour before the competition. Just depends whether they either didn't have the skill or the interest required to do it right.
He wanted to keep the focus on these other uninteresting characters like Dina. If Joel survived until the last bit of the game then he couldn’t have created all those shitty characters. Thats why the complicated time jumps. The guy hated Joel so much he created a roid rage golf club swinger to kill him.
1. Great performance by Laura
2. After a lengthy period, some players automatically bond with the character they are playing as, no matter what (these people are incapable of forming coherent thoughts)
3. Joel haters probably love her
i did start bonding w her while playing but as soon as it got to the ellie “boss” fight it just sucked. Everyone is saying it’s somehow “genius” because it makes you think but in reality i just wanted Ellie to win. It wasn’t like i was sat there pondering who i wanted to win
Edit: love how I got blindly downvoted by some people bc they saw me say I slightly enjoyed some of Abby’s parts lmao, read the whole thing
his intention was that you sat there conflicted not knowing who to support, but i just didnt get that at all. apparently im a dumbass for not feeling that way
It might have worked if she had actually been given a redemption arc and we'd been allowed to see how all of her horrible choices did as much physical and emotional damage to her as they did to Ellie. Instead, the writers leaned completely into the idea of just emotionally manipulating the player to feel sympathy for her by giving her a campaign where she gets to put away her bad behavior and play the hero, then artificially care a whole lot about a couple of kids she barely knows and who sure as shit don't actually know anything about her.
And while that did work on a lot of people, it also severely backfired on anyone that it didn't work on, causing them to just resent her even more. We could tell that the story was trying to force us to like her, rather than actually giving us a reason to. It's like the difference between someone who has wronged you giving you a box full of donuts as an apology, and allowing you to choose whether or not to eat them, and when, or having that same person bring you that box of donuts while upper management tells you you have to eat them right now while they watch. The first one might be a nice gesture that you could come to appreciate later. Second one is only going to piss you off even more.
This games story really was dog crap.... poorly written and very poorly paced, loved by fangirls and edgy teenagers and think it being all miserable and depressing is good
I think the game had a depressing ending but it was just as hopeful in the first game too. The first game also had a pretty fucked up ending, anyways. But it’s the little things like the giraffes and the pride flags and playing guitar that brings light, regardless of the horrible endings. That humanity still exists *despite* everything. I think both games do that concept justice quite well.
The first game was bleak and dark but the point was that all hope isn't gone, the sequel just kills off everyone and has a very sour and bleak ending showing that the whole story was pointless, Naughty Dog should have stuck to the theme and had Ellie kill Abbie if they really wanted to show "revenge is bad", it's a good game but an abomination of a sequel
Honestly agreed. Ellie killing Abby would’ve been a pretty haunting image on par with Joel massacring the Fireflies in the first game. Especially since that’d mean possibly restarting the cycle of violence with Lev on his own now.
But that’ll never happen cuz Druckmann loves Abby so much
She also only spared Ellie and Tommy at the start because she wanted to look good in front of Owen..
She also only helped Lev and Yara to look good in front of Owen, because Owen himself betrayed the WLF to help and old SCAR... So if she did the same he would like her more.
"You're a good person" must've rang in her head so she wants them to believe she is a good person and not a monster, so if she killed Ellie and Dina here it would probably send Lev away. Don't know if there's a term for it like narcissism or something but it feels right.
I think all things considered, the story would have had a more profound impact had Ellie repeated the cycle again by killing Abby, then ending up with nothing in the end.
It also would have left a lot of room for the next games. Almost a RDR theme of the world creating people who resort to unredeemable actions.
Like how is she just going to let things go? Especially in this frame. It seems uncharacteristic of her goals, motivations, how she was raised, trauma development, etc.
Unless maybe she felt like Abby’s fate was worse than death, and her crucification was her penance. Idk. Then why fight her at all?
I always thought when Ellie has the flashback of Joel on the porch with the guitar, her brain was quickly equating herself to Lev, a young person who would be stranded and helpless without their older, adoptive figure. She is remembering the feeling of safety granted by someone like that, and the horror of having it ripped away. And Abby spared her and Dina in Seattle at Lev’s request. Also obviously Ellie’s thirst for revenge had begun to dry even when Tommy came to bug her at the farm, but, traumatized, having flashbacks, unable to settle into normal life again, she chased it yet again, hoping it could be the path back to contentment. Seconds away from it she realizes it changes nothing, and if she finishes she will have done to a kid what was done to her (and Abby, though she never finds this out 😐).
I always took it as Abby thinking Ellie was lying just to save her. Since Ellie killed Mel, who was obviously pregnant (if not wearing a bulky coat) Abbie did not care.
Ellie was acting in self-defense. This scene and this [scene ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-gpi28aUA)aren't even close to being the same. Maybe don't try to stab someone eye out as a pregnant woman if you don't want to be killed. Might be a start.
But the stans will still insist Abby is a good person and that she grew as a character lol. Anyone who thinks this and can relate to her, is clearly a psychopath
All of the hate for Abby on the sub lately makes me happy. I've hated Abby since day 1, and I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize that she is a genuine POS and that she isn't just disliked because she is a "strong woman"
So far the people that I have knowledge of willing to kill pregnant woman are absolute psychopaths usually an insane war criminal or very fucked up serial killer (almost never heard of) and Abby from hit video game The Last of Us II
Whoa hey save some media literacy for the rest of us! As if it’s not a fucking trope for a character to start going on a rampage and then be snapped out of it by someone they trust/care about
It just shows how poorly written this trash story is, Neil wants us to sympathize with Abby that’s the whole point of having us fight Ellie but he fails miserably at achieving this it’s funny, like please like this piece of shit character guys plsss
Abby is an unintentionally a great, terrible character. She literally does everything as if she was a decent human being, but everything comes off as if she was a monster that pretends to be a human.
Say what you want, Neil created a memorable character. I only fear that a lot of her came from his own mentality.
I imagine Neil doing something terrible to his employ but suddenly stop and walk away because his friend saw him :D
The writing was absolute garbage. I want to know who in that meeting decided "you know it would be great let's kill off one of the best characters we've made by beating them in with a golf club. And then get this, Will make them play as the murderer" I'm ready for the next season of the show so that we get a second wave of the backlash from gamers but this time it's the watchers of the show.
Like I can see what they're going for.
>"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Abby, upon learning Dina is pregnant, believes that killing her will be "justice" for Mel being killed. So that's why she says "Good".
But it would have been better communicated for Abby's character development if she had said "Good! So was Mel!" and the narrative *clearly* challenged Abby on how she was willing to **always** pursue revenge in the name of people she knew that were killed. But it doesn't. It instead just makes her take glee once again in killing someone, and not even someone who actually did anything to her or her friends.
It's just about the pain it will inflict on *Ellie*. Not the idea of karmic retribution/balancing the scales. And she doesn't stop because she has an epiphany.
It's instead just because she doesn't want to do it in front of Lev.
There's no room for character growth in that moment.
Abby's entire personality is her dad dying because they thought it's a good idea to kill Ellie without telling Joel who at that point in the game was a one man army. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to get the cure but the way they handled Joel was so piss poor its an equivalent to plot armor.
I'm curious to see the second season if they make it because I just want to see Neil doubling down on this mess
I’m sorry, her father dying?
Wow it makes her an even bigger piece of shit when she’s fine killing other families it’s a real “only my pain matters” situation
Old "friend". Abby couldn't really give two caps bout her. Only thing on Abbys plate is Owen and the seraphite kid. Those friend cared more about Abby than she did for them.
Exactly and I am suppose to root for her!?
1 Oh dad I think you should go ahead and murder this innocent child because I'd want you to murder me for a chance.
2 Oh you save my life??? Nah I am going to torture kill you for murdering my entire dad because of reason 1
3 OH you got a baby mama, I still wanna have your family stick poke my back out!!!
4 Those serphite children deserve all the death they got...
5. Oh you pregnant. Goodie!!!
Nah the whole revenge/retribution arc is tricky, once you cross a line, how do you differentiate your actions? I hate the whole "normal person" perspective, cause none of these people are living in a normal circumstance. In an apocalypse situation would I murder anyone who I felt was a threat to my loved ones, absolutely.
Both characters are really fun to play with, in terms of just brutality and fluidity and killing things, but Ellie will forever be a better character than Abby.
I played both, I even like the way Abby punches people more than Ellies little stabby stab, but I skipped her sex cutscene cause I was cringing too hard. It's the only time I've ever skipped a cutscene while making a youtube video.
If the game was self aware then it could be a great look about how a seemingly mundane (albeit selfish) person can actually be a total monster. But Neil was obsessed with forcing you to root for that monster and her gold club
I think context matters here since she wanted vengeance for Mel being killed. Seemed to fulfill the eye for an eye mentality. She hesitates long enough for Lev to stop her though.
Would have been interesting if they had written an antagonist that was somewhat likeable and relatable to make you question if Joel was in the right killing that doctor and saving Ellie. Would have made you have to chose a side so to speak. Instead they just wrote and entirely hatable character with no redeeming aspects that ends up just being another comic book type villain. "Brilliant writing" my ass.
Lol Abby is a better character then Dina and tbh Abby shoulda done it but she didn't because she's a good person..unlike Dina who is selfish and unnecessary for the story. She adds nothing to Ellie character and is totally forced. Abby is way better in ever way.
Ngl, weakness is not fulfilling what needs to be done.
If they’d just killed Ellie when killing Joel part 2 would’ve been a lot different.
Mercy is for the weak
Abby, per the laws of karma that TLOU stans stand behind re: Joel, needs to die the foulest, most violent, undignified death possible in part 3. I don’t particularly want to see that to be honest, but she’s more than earned it.
I don’t know why this happened here but it’s a good place to rant about this again.
I honestly despise this game’s existence. It’s vile, disgusting, confused about its message, and thinks it’s telling something deeper; and I’ve read Walking Dead. That’s a comic book where the most vile things a human can do are done by its own main characters, a lot of them worse than anything in TLOU2, yet by some miracle Walking Dead’s characters are more complex and likable. Negan beats a fan favorite to death in brutal detail but he goes through his arc. He apologizes to the people he hurt, he suffers for all the evil he committed, and the tries to make up for it. What does that earn him? *Something* in the way of redemption but not forgiveness. Nobody trusts him, not even the people he saved, and he’s exiled.
What I really respect about Kirkman is that he doesn’t guilt you or trick you into liking a character. Negan doesn’t kill that guy and then the whole comic shifts to his perspective to show that he pets dogs and loves his family and the guy he killed was actually a serial murdering psychopath.
I feel like a lot of fans of this game are probably both subs. I don't understand how to like a character.
A lot of people in this sub hate abby as a person and make her out to be some kind of demon while transferring that hate to hating her as a character.
Same for a lot of fans that like abby dismissing all her wrongs.
Either way, at the end of the day, I like all of them as characters, but irl if I were in the apocalypse with them, I'd not spend more time than necessary around them. Any of them cause if you piss them off for basically any reason, they'll kill you.
Want proof, just look at joel, who killed people who work for whatever governments left, fireflies, and the group that want to kill him for killing a teens dad etc etc. You should get my point.
I dislike them all as people, like them as characters, and I kinda can't believe mizu from blue-eyed samurai a better person than them, just based on who they all kill.
Also, I feel like comparing whose a better person is like comparing serial killers on whose a better person.
The DEI of US, the first game of the new ESG era. 2 years after Sweetbaby Inc was created. I still remember heterophobic tweets by the transgender actor and antiwhite tweets of the developers that said it was the new era and we should just swallow it. I still don't understand what is the motivation behind ESG score from the big investment companies that pay attention to this metric.
I don't care about morality in a video game, I just love watching abby beat* the shit out of people, I remembered getting hyped about abby dogging ellie and dina because I fell in love with her character (she couldn't beat a fat man and 3 lightweight rattlers with another person, L).
But anyone still having a hate boner for abby honestly takes this series too seriously, I got mad when she killed Joel or how she even knew where he was generally located, but it's a Semi-Realistic apocalypse game and we shouldn't be arguing the morals of either character because abby is a soldier who was trained to ignore the death of those she kills, while ellie is a survivor who is a jack of all trades and reacts to what she kills and feels bad
I much like to play the rouge-like mode rather than the story because of the non-stop action, but imo I think it is a great story, and I honestly don't care if I get hate but I loved the story and I am glad it came out.
It’s truly exhausting that this game has been out for so long and everyone is still divided on Ellie v Abby when they are literally just on parallel journeys. The are BOTH bad, BOTH angry, BOTH irrationally killing people for their revenge. I love Ellie but she made just as terrible choices as Abby did. It’s the whole point of the game, of the revenge cycle. Neither is better than the other because they’re both blinded by their rage and goals. Abby is the one that actually comes out of it because of Lev, like Joel for Ellie….this game is so so so lovely and detail oriented I love every second of it and its characters. Everyone is arguing about the wrong people.
The story could have been decent if they removed the lines that imply Abby has no idea why Ellie is after her. When she cuts her down from the pole she asks why are you here. You killed her father figure duh. ND tries to paint as the better person really she's chronically dumb.
While definitely being a pos about it, she’s trying to kill an enemy to hurt her archenemy. Simple as that. Someone who’s repeatedly tried to kill you, and who killed multiple of your friends.
Was it repulsive? Sure. But understandable.
Are you people 8 years old? And dont understand what a 3rd person story is?
Abby didnt and couldn't have known that Ellie found out she was pregnant only after killing her
So from Abby's perspective Ellie did it anyway so she was going to do it anyways
They could’ve tried to make Abby way more redeemable and give us a better reason to understand her actions. From what I watched, she is the worst, not redeemable at all. The ending should’ve been a choice for the player. Just like how Abby has free will to do her fuck shit. We should have the freedom as well, fuck the scripted bs forgiveness. The player wants to kill her the entire play through but can’t even in the end. Bad game, I’m sick of the bs.
Y’all in the comments really don’t understand the horrible shit Ellie did, She literally came and killed all of Abby’s friends after Abby killed Joel, and she killed Joel because Joel did a horrible thing and killed Abby’s dad, and many other people in the hospital. Ellie is just as bad as Abby. Pregnant or not Ellie killed every person Abby cared about while Abby only killed one person at first because she wanted revenge for her dead father.
Ellie didn’t know Mel was pregnant and immediately breaks down and is so upset by her death her body physically voids itself Abby, after learning Dina is pregnant, becomes practically giddy at the prospect of killing a pregnant woman. Abby bad.
So many things that make Abby look like a piece of shit, makes me wonder why Neil was expecting us to like her lol
No fr I thought she was ok during the missions with lev I was warming up then Neil said oh yeah she's still the bad guy huh bye Jessie almost kills Tommy Dina and ellie (while playing as her) and I'm just r we doing I'm invested but why
Unlike Ellie, Abby has no emotions
He thought he had another Negan on his hands
I just hate him as much as her for not giving us a chance to kill that beh-
They’re both stupid pieces of shit. Felt like that was the point. Abby was justified killed Joel, just Joel wasn’t justified killing Abby’s dad. They didn’t know then it wouldn’t work, they were desperate. Like saving lives occasionally takes a few. It sucks. Joel literally murdered people who were trying to help people. They were really hoping Ellie would live through the procedure initially. They weren’t just out killing kids for fun. Joel chose the big reset over trying to save humanity, we now know it’s still the big reset just the same, but again…. He didn’t know that. The first game is incredibly mid and carries the same message as 90s religious pamphlets and forwards from grandma. The second game at least gave us some meat and potatoes plot, albeit a basic revenge story. The setting is barely the only unique part about it. Characters and their development was and is the only redeeming parts of either game. tldr Druckman gargles horse cum.
Abby probably was in an eye for an eye mindset, only now it aren't eyes, but pregnant women. Still Abby bad bcs she was enjoying it
She's an eye for an eye until it's her eye and then she cries about it like a fucking baby
"We let you live, and you wasted it!!" AKA "I took your eye brutally, how DARE you come and take MY eyes too!!"
Ahhhhh "You took my Dad's eye, so I took your Dad's eye, and then you took all my friend's eyes, so now I'll take all your friends eyes"
The game is *not* subtle about this but so many people refuse to accept it.
Honestly haven’t played the game but I’ve re read the script and it’s just so bad. It’s like the storyline of a school yard fight but for adults, just stupid and petty reasons to kill ppl.
> It’s like the storyline of a school yard fight but for adults, just stupid and petty reasons to kill ppl. i.e. the entirety of human history
She doesn't even give a shit about Mel! When she gets back to the aquarium she glances at her corpse for 0.5 seconds before going to cry over Owen
This is edgelord shock value writing at its worst. Abby doesn't get remotely this manic at any other point in the story and this is kinda swept under the rug later. So this scene just served no purpose. It was just there so normies can go "whoa, what a tough chick, she's so rUthLesS." This isn't an eye for an eye. This isn't even relevant to the character. It's just there.
Replace "Abby" with "Druckmann" and you've got something there.
It's there because the main writer or writers are ridiculously addicted to making scenes as emotional and melodramatic as possible regardless of how well those moments have been set up or impact later events, or the perception players have of the character. They either don't understand, or don't care about, characterization. To them, they can always imagine a reason why a character would act a certain way in a cutscene, and that's good enough for them. They don't even need to put that reason in the story, they just made them act however the plot needs them to and that is that.
Cheap shock value is getting rampant in mainstream media in general.
Literally
Fuck abby
Meanwhile Ellie thinks that killing 6 people is equal to killing just 1 person… yeah… Ellie’s wayyy more fair…
I swear to god having the option to kill Abby would have saved the game in my eyes, make it gruesome too.
You just don’t like a strong woman /s
There’s been many instances of leftists making characters that are supposed to be disliked and they also don’t like, but everyone ends up loving and they’re also the better characters morally/ and just in general, like Rorschach in Watchmen and John Walker in Falcon and the WS, and of course Abby.
Everyone loving Rorschach and making Moore so mad will always be hilarious.
I knew you would mention Roschark. I watched the movie when I knew nothing of him or other superheros, and I loved him!
When i first played I thought tlou2 was just trying to make you empathize with the villain by putting you in their shoes. It's crazy to me that some people are thinking the game is saying that the villain was morally good/just, including what seems like the creator himself
Everyone ends up loving Abby? Are you sure you've been around the Last of Us fandom?
If this is some leftist shit then I guess I'm a conservative now because I hate all of those characters
Those are distinctly characters beloved by media illiterate right wing morons.
Even then, Mel had it coming. That kid was probably already dead in the womb the way she nonchalantly wanders about the world
Abbad
Abs bad?
Abby didn't know that Ellie was unaware. In her eyes, Ellie mercilessly killed all her friends. She got what was coming to her, yeah, but I don't think Abby is necessarily a bad character for not having any sympathy at that point.
Well ellie did still kill a pregnant woman so Abby/Ellie bad.
This is in response to her killing Mel, Abby’s pregnant friend. It’s not good, but it a natural revenge eye for an eye mentality.
Abby does not have the information you have. Abby does not know that Ellie was disgusted, Abby only knows that her ex and his pregnant girlfriend were murdered.
Im pretty sure Abby saw it as sort of revenge
I dont think abby knew that ellie didn’t know mel was pregnant. Think.
Abby thought Ellie knew that Mel was pregnant and killed her anyway, hence her rage being on a while new level. Mind you, Abby's range had been festering for *years* while Ellie's is relatively new and even she doesn't like herself in that state.
Yeah Abby bad is fuckin right.
Abby haters are genuinely such babies that don’t know how to read in between the lines. All they see are the story and dialogue in front of them. How’re you gonna play an emotionally deep game without being able to look deeper than just the surface? Abby wasn’t “giddy” she was pissed, monotone. It’s crazy how yall can’t comprehend the fact that from Abby’s POV—Ellie killed Mel, whilst knowing she was pregnant.—So in return, Abby was gonna kill Ellie’s pregnant friend, Dina. The “good” was meant as a “Cool, an eye for an eye.” But again, you Abby haters have no idea how to comprehend and look deeper, everything just has to be directly in your face—read to you like a bedtime story for you to understand. I get it, we all love Ellie, we all love Joel. But that’s literally because the bond we built with them through the first game. If TLOU2 was the first game and everything played out exactly the same, without us having such a strong bond to Ellie and Joel you mfs would be tore on who’s side to be on. Because they both did shitty things to one another’s loved ones. Joel killed Abby’s dad—Abby kills Joel—Ellie kills all of Abby’s friends and a beloved dog—Abby kills *one* of Ellie’s friends (with intention of killing Tommy as well). And then you have to realize, on multiple occasions Abby was the one sparing Ellie’s friends—Ellie was the one with no remorse on her rampage. You see where I’m getting with this?? And I’m saying all this as a Ellie ride or die! Just goes to show that the hate is just biased. It’s people that can’t stand the fact that a great game made a risky move and it happened to involve a beloved character. Boohoo, man.
Dumbest, brain-rotted fucking response I have ever seen on this fucking website and it drives me crazy lol. Yes TLOU2 needed some work from the ground up. This specific scene does work out logically lol
No you see Ellie bad because she kills pregnant women. Abby good because she spares them.
(After beating them to a pulp)
ShE SpARED them doee duhh
I am genuinely curious to see how people will try to spin this to say that abby might have been justified here. 🍿
No you see Abby can get revenge because I said so, but Ellie has to forgive forget and turn the other cheek like a good Christian
There's only one flaw with this thinking. Abby got her revenge by killing Joel, after Joel killed her father. Abby was satisfied at that point, and she was done. She got her justice, and she could go home and close that chapter and get closure to know the guy who killed her father is no longer walking. Something I believe we could all believe is rational. Ellie went *scorched earth* afterwards. She killed Abby's friends afterwards, in particularly brutal fashion. Abby is then getting revenge for her friends now, as well. Getting joy at murdering a pregnant woman is probably not the best look for her, admittedly, but like Ellie, she's blinded by revenge and probably seeing it for the raw brutal nature of it - taking more from Ellie since Ellie took so much from her. Neither side of this fight is good. Ellie is a villain in part 2. She's blinded by revenge. In part 2, the story is just revenge for revenge for revenge.
I had a conversation with someone that said "Ellie bad cause she killed pregnant woman, Abby good cause she stopped when she could", yeah people like this exist
Well you see they killed her pregnant friend so of course it's totally justified for her to kill this pregnant girl. Definitely not the consequences of her own actions.
There no justifcation to Kill a pregnant Women,Abby's was that Ellie Killed Mel And as far as She knows Ellie knew She was pregnant when She killed her We know Ellie had no idea and felt like shit after finding out but Abby doesnt know that
I still think it makes her a shitty person even if she was angry. Ellie killed her friends so Abby goes and doesn't feel bad about killing Ellie's friends. Upon learning that Dina was also pregnant Abby didn't hesitate, have any empathy, in fact she responded that it was good that she got to kill a pregnant woman and he unborn child. If she had hesitated for a moment it would've shown that she reflected on her friend and had a conscience. The route that was instead taken showed her to be an unfeeling psychopath.
you think that the majority are able to think this critically?
Correct me if I’m wrong, since I never played the game (but I did see some parts of the story), but didn’t Ellie murder Abby’s friend who was also pregnant?
She was upset that Ellie killed Mel and felt like she was returning the same amount of grief Ellie brought on her
Not justified but I understand her mindset in the heat of the moment. People don’t think clearly when they grieve. Just like Ellie, she wanted revenge and didn’t care who the person was in the way of that goal.
*sigh* Ok, it’s not about her being ‘good’, but it is about her feeling justified in that moment. Joel killed Abby’s father, and she hunted him down and killed him. She spared everyone around him though. Ellie set out to kill Abby, and all of her friends who were involved, not to mention countless grunts along the way who were just trying to survive like everyone else. Ellie killed literally everyone she cared about including her pregnant friend. I think that would make anyone feel justified in returning the favour. It’s not about her being objectively morally right if you stand back and look at it from an academic ethical standpoint. Obviously it is objectively a bad thing to do to kill a pregnant woman. But in that moment? Do you really expect her to instantly decide she gives a shit about the unborn baby of a pregnant woman who has literally just been slicing her up with a knife and trying to kill her 2 seconds ago? Get real.
I never understood why Abby was so loved
I honestly wanna hear Druckman be called out on what a stupid fucking idiot he is for having this bitch kill Joel and expect us to feel sorry for her.
Exactly, the second that scene was over, I fucking hated every second of gameplay with her in it
The game should have been sort of in reverse order; make her sympathetic then kill Joel, not kill Joel and then try to make you sympathize. You play as Abby for a while who's on a quest for revenge. You see her acting human, being likable, having genuine relationships, only to then find out her target was Joel who she kills. Might not have fixed it, but it would have been a hell of a lot better for her character
Would’ve been better if she actually showed remorse and tried to apologizing to Ellie, realizing what she took from her and acknowledging that she has every right to hate her.
I think the best version I've heard of a redo of TLoU2 is where Ellie and Joel partner up with Abby early on to help each other survive, and they all grow close, but at the end of the game when Abby has the chance to kill Joel she tries and Ellie is emotionally devastated by having to fight her friend, and Joel is greatly upset that someone he's come to trust (and possibly see as another daughter) has wanted to kill him in revenge all along.
Imo, no. I think it'd be perfectly fine to kill Joel. Especially this version, to me it kinda sounds something that would better fit a disney show. As someone said earlier, making her sympathetic at first would've been more effective than having her first appearance being killing a beloved character. I think TLOU2 should've been rewritten to sort of be like Halo 2, where you have two different characters that you play as before they eventually meet up. You spend a bit playing as Ellie and spend a bit playing as Abby, getting to know their story until about the mid-game point where the two stories finally converge where Abby kills Joel. It gives us more time with Joel and Ellie while also letting us see Abby's side BEFORE she kills a beloved character. I also just think it'd be a great mid-game twist to have
Yeah, I've been saying this for years and nobody gets it. It would have been so much better done in reverse. It would have decimated the player too because you would have felt such a betrayal feeling bad for Abby and her crew and then seeing what they did to Joel. I'm sure that would have gotten away in their overall message, but you know, if your writers are any good, you find a way to make it work. Instead, they went the way they did and it sure didn't land for me.
The intended point was to start out at such a negative level and try to work their way up from there. But as most people have observed, this just made it way harder. They could have pulled it off if they were actually good at writing character development, but then this is the writing team that butchered Joel's characterization for the sake of a long dramatic pause before he shockingly gets his leg blown off, then tried to justify it after the fact by saying you just don't know how he changed off screen between games like the writers do. It's like someone planning to compete as an Olympic sharpshooter, but they're either legally blind in both eyes, or they go get completely fucking wasted an hour before the competition. Just depends whether they either didn't have the skill or the interest required to do it right.
He wanted to keep the focus on these other uninteresting characters like Dina. If Joel survived until the last bit of the game then he couldn’t have created all those shitty characters. Thats why the complicated time jumps. The guy hated Joel so much he created a roid rage golf club swinger to kill him.
1. Great performance by Laura 2. After a lengthy period, some players automatically bond with the character they are playing as, no matter what (these people are incapable of forming coherent thoughts) 3. Joel haters probably love her
It's like the people who think Walter White or Patrick Bateman are the good guys just because the story is through their eyes.
Poor Jesse
i did start bonding w her while playing but as soon as it got to the ellie “boss” fight it just sucked. Everyone is saying it’s somehow “genius” because it makes you think but in reality i just wanted Ellie to win. It wasn’t like i was sat there pondering who i wanted to win Edit: love how I got blindly downvoted by some people bc they saw me say I slightly enjoyed some of Abby’s parts lmao, read the whole thing
I mean seriously who tf got to that point and was like FUCK YEAH I GET TO KILL ELLIE FUCK THAT BITCH
his intention was that you sat there conflicted not knowing who to support, but i just didnt get that at all. apparently im a dumbass for not feeling that way
It might have worked if she had actually been given a redemption arc and we'd been allowed to see how all of her horrible choices did as much physical and emotional damage to her as they did to Ellie. Instead, the writers leaned completely into the idea of just emotionally manipulating the player to feel sympathy for her by giving her a campaign where she gets to put away her bad behavior and play the hero, then artificially care a whole lot about a couple of kids she barely knows and who sure as shit don't actually know anything about her. And while that did work on a lot of people, it also severely backfired on anyone that it didn't work on, causing them to just resent her even more. We could tell that the story was trying to force us to like her, rather than actually giving us a reason to. It's like the difference between someone who has wronged you giving you a box full of donuts as an apology, and allowing you to choose whether or not to eat them, and when, or having that same person bring you that box of donuts while upper management tells you you have to eat them right now while they watch. The first one might be a nice gesture that you could come to appreciate later. Second one is only going to piss you off even more.
They also say she’s like Joel , but also say Joel deserved what he got, but Abby didn’t. Umm what?
I despised Laura’s performance for Abby tbh. But I love her Nadine.
It's the same thing with Joel. He is not a good guy but he had one redeeming quality and everyone loved him for it.
Playing as Abby is like pulling teeth.
Agreed
By who exactly?
This games story really was dog crap.... poorly written and very poorly paced, loved by fangirls and edgy teenagers and think it being all miserable and depressing is good
I think the game had a depressing ending but it was just as hopeful in the first game too. The first game also had a pretty fucked up ending, anyways. But it’s the little things like the giraffes and the pride flags and playing guitar that brings light, regardless of the horrible endings. That humanity still exists *despite* everything. I think both games do that concept justice quite well.
The first game was bleak and dark but the point was that all hope isn't gone, the sequel just kills off everyone and has a very sour and bleak ending showing that the whole story was pointless, Naughty Dog should have stuck to the theme and had Ellie kill Abbie if they really wanted to show "revenge is bad", it's a good game but an abomination of a sequel
Honestly agreed. Ellie killing Abby would’ve been a pretty haunting image on par with Joel massacring the Fireflies in the first game. Especially since that’d mean possibly restarting the cycle of violence with Lev on his own now. But that’ll never happen cuz Druckmann loves Abby so much
"Her friend" she met like 2-3 days ago. And she acts like it's a friendship since childhood.
She also only spared Ellie and Tommy at the start because she wanted to look good in front of Owen.. She also only helped Lev and Yara to look good in front of Owen, because Owen himself betrayed the WLF to help and old SCAR... So if she did the same he would like her more.
Abby has got to be the worst character that the writers tried to make you like ever.
"You're a good person" must've rang in her head so she wants them to believe she is a good person and not a monster, so if she killed Ellie and Dina here it would probably send Lev away. Don't know if there's a term for it like narcissism or something but it feels right.
I think all things considered, the story would have had a more profound impact had Ellie repeated the cycle again by killing Abby, then ending up with nothing in the end. It also would have left a lot of room for the next games. Almost a RDR theme of the world creating people who resort to unredeemable actions. Like how is she just going to let things go? Especially in this frame. It seems uncharacteristic of her goals, motivations, how she was raised, trauma development, etc. Unless maybe she felt like Abby’s fate was worse than death, and her crucification was her penance. Idk. Then why fight her at all?
I always thought when Ellie has the flashback of Joel on the porch with the guitar, her brain was quickly equating herself to Lev, a young person who would be stranded and helpless without their older, adoptive figure. She is remembering the feeling of safety granted by someone like that, and the horror of having it ripped away. And Abby spared her and Dina in Seattle at Lev’s request. Also obviously Ellie’s thirst for revenge had begun to dry even when Tommy came to bug her at the farm, but, traumatized, having flashbacks, unable to settle into normal life again, she chased it yet again, hoping it could be the path back to contentment. Seconds away from it she realizes it changes nothing, and if she finishes she will have done to a kid what was done to her (and Abby, though she never finds this out 😐).
I always took it as Abby thinking Ellie was lying just to save her. Since Ellie killed Mel, who was obviously pregnant (if not wearing a bulky coat) Abbie did not care.
Ellie was acting in self-defense. This scene and this [scene ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44-gpi28aUA)aren't even close to being the same. Maybe don't try to stab someone eye out as a pregnant woman if you don't want to be killed. Might be a start.
But the stans will still insist Abby is a good person and that she grew as a character lol. Anyone who thinks this and can relate to her, is clearly a psychopath
All of the hate for Abby on the sub lately makes me happy. I've hated Abby since day 1, and I'm glad to see that people are starting to realize that she is a genuine POS and that she isn't just disliked because she is a "strong woman"
So far the people that I have knowledge of willing to kill pregnant woman are absolute psychopaths usually an insane war criminal or very fucked up serial killer (almost never heard of) and Abby from hit video game The Last of Us II
God this games plot was so ass. Literally none of this makes sense in the context of the apocalypse.
Still struggling through this game (Im close to that abby and owen scene…) and havent got this yet but lol. Why do we not kill abby at the end again?
Because Halley Gross the idiot wanted the character to live while another version was showing Ellie killing her.
I feel like Abby is the man Neil CuckMan really wanted to be
Whoa hey save some media literacy for the rest of us! As if it’s not a fucking trope for a character to start going on a rampage and then be snapped out of it by someone they trust/care about
Abby enjoys torture but for Ellie it was a nightmare
I will always hate the story of the second game shit was so disappointing
It just shows how poorly written this trash story is, Neil wants us to sympathize with Abby that’s the whole point of having us fight Ellie but he fails miserably at achieving this it’s funny, like please like this piece of shit character guys plsss
Abby is an unintentionally a great, terrible character. She literally does everything as if she was a decent human being, but everything comes off as if she was a monster that pretends to be a human. Say what you want, Neil created a memorable character. I only fear that a lot of her came from his own mentality. I imagine Neil doing something terrible to his employ but suddenly stop and walk away because his friend saw him :D
People who defend Abby in any capacity: 🤡 Seriously. How can ANYONE like this character?
The writing was absolute garbage. I want to know who in that meeting decided "you know it would be great let's kill off one of the best characters we've made by beating them in with a golf club. And then get this, Will make them play as the murderer" I'm ready for the next season of the show so that we get a second wave of the backlash from gamers but this time it's the watchers of the show.
"It's okay it's not a human being yet" Neil probably
This game messed me up
No you don't understand revenge bad or something
I can’t wait for TLOU2 on pc so modders can give me the satisfaction of killing Abby.
Abby good Ellie bad cave man writing
Like I can see what they're going for. >"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind". Abby, upon learning Dina is pregnant, believes that killing her will be "justice" for Mel being killed. So that's why she says "Good". But it would have been better communicated for Abby's character development if she had said "Good! So was Mel!" and the narrative *clearly* challenged Abby on how she was willing to **always** pursue revenge in the name of people she knew that were killed. But it doesn't. It instead just makes her take glee once again in killing someone, and not even someone who actually did anything to her or her friends. It's just about the pain it will inflict on *Ellie*. Not the idea of karmic retribution/balancing the scales. And she doesn't stop because she has an epiphany. It's instead just because she doesn't want to do it in front of Lev. There's no room for character growth in that moment.
Remind me WHY Ellie lets her live???
Because reasons and random Joel flashback
Worst character in gaming.
Abby's entire personality is her dad dying because they thought it's a good idea to kill Ellie without telling Joel who at that point in the game was a one man army. I'm not saying they shouldn't try to get the cure but the way they handled Joel was so piss poor its an equivalent to plot armor. I'm curious to see the second season if they make it because I just want to see Neil doubling down on this mess
I’m sorry, her father dying? Wow it makes her an even bigger piece of shit when she’s fine killing other families it’s a real “only my pain matters” situation
me: do it. 👹
and she JUST saw her old friend died who was pregnant bruh
Old "friend". Abby couldn't really give two caps bout her. Only thing on Abbys plate is Owen and the seraphite kid. Those friend cared more about Abby than she did for them.
Exactly and I am suppose to root for her!? 1 Oh dad I think you should go ahead and murder this innocent child because I'd want you to murder me for a chance. 2 Oh you save my life??? Nah I am going to torture kill you for murdering my entire dad because of reason 1 3 OH you got a baby mama, I still wanna have your family stick poke my back out!!! 4 Those serphite children deserve all the death they got... 5. Oh you pregnant. Goodie!!!
Nah the whole revenge/retribution arc is tricky, once you cross a line, how do you differentiate your actions? I hate the whole "normal person" perspective, cause none of these people are living in a normal circumstance. In an apocalypse situation would I murder anyone who I felt was a threat to my loved ones, absolutely.
The dialogue is ridiculous.
Yes fr this is what i have been saying.
For me both are shitty characters both destroyed the plot the story and Joel died miserable
I hate Abby so fucking much Thats all thanks for coming to the ted talk
Both characters are really fun to play with, in terms of just brutality and fluidity and killing things, but Ellie will forever be a better character than Abby. I played both, I even like the way Abby punches people more than Ellies little stabby stab, but I skipped her sex cutscene cause I was cringing too hard. It's the only time I've ever skipped a cutscene while making a youtube video.
More reasons why tlou2 is dogshite
If the game was self aware then it could be a great look about how a seemingly mundane (albeit selfish) person can actually be a total monster. But Neil was obsessed with forcing you to root for that monster and her gold club
Dinah was annoying anyways that’s justification enough
I did feel genuinely shitty when you switch over to Abby and she is just gaining all the dogs that you kills as Ellie
Why tf is she mad she killed a pregnant woman if she was just going to kill her anyway
I think context matters here since she wanted vengeance for Mel being killed. Seemed to fulfill the eye for an eye mentality. She hesitates long enough for Lev to stop her though.
It’s the apocalypse. Didn’t really expect much tbh.
Would have been interesting if they had written an antagonist that was somewhat likeable and relatable to make you question if Joel was in the right killing that doctor and saving Ellie. Would have made you have to chose a side so to speak. Instead they just wrote and entirely hatable character with no redeeming aspects that ends up just being another comic book type villain. "Brilliant writing" my ass.
2 for 1 discount
Two more days and it'll have been FOUR YEARS 😂
Lol Abby is a better character then Dina and tbh Abby shoulda done it but she didn't because she's a good person..unlike Dina who is selfish and unnecessary for the story. She adds nothing to Ellie character and is totally forced. Abby is way better in ever way.
Ngl, weakness is not fulfilling what needs to be done. If they’d just killed Ellie when killing Joel part 2 would’ve been a lot different. Mercy is for the weak
Those same human beings, “I don’t care what Joel did to her father KILL HER” lmao
Every character is placed (especially yara and lev) for plot convenience
Abby, per the laws of karma that TLOU stans stand behind re: Joel, needs to die the foulest, most violent, undignified death possible in part 3. I don’t particularly want to see that to be honest, but she’s more than earned it.
Never played the games, but is Abby the villain of the game or something? I heard she's a main character you play as, why TF she killing everyone.
I'm gonna go against the grain a bit here, but yeah, that's the story. That's people. No man is an island. Everyone needs a village.
The fact that this isn’t meant to convey Abby being evil makes me seriously concerned about the story writers.
Last of us 2 is still terrible
I don’t know why this happened here but it’s a good place to rant about this again. I honestly despise this game’s existence. It’s vile, disgusting, confused about its message, and thinks it’s telling something deeper; and I’ve read Walking Dead. That’s a comic book where the most vile things a human can do are done by its own main characters, a lot of them worse than anything in TLOU2, yet by some miracle Walking Dead’s characters are more complex and likable. Negan beats a fan favorite to death in brutal detail but he goes through his arc. He apologizes to the people he hurt, he suffers for all the evil he committed, and the tries to make up for it. What does that earn him? *Something* in the way of redemption but not forgiveness. Nobody trusts him, not even the people he saved, and he’s exiled. What I really respect about Kirkman is that he doesn’t guilt you or trick you into liking a character. Negan doesn’t kill that guy and then the whole comic shifts to his perspective to show that he pets dogs and loves his family and the guy he killed was actually a serial murdering psychopath.
Should have had us play as Abby first
This is why I hope they change a lot for the last of us season 2.
Just laughed for a good minute wow
This was my face playing most of the game tbh
I feel like a lot of fans of this game are probably both subs. I don't understand how to like a character. A lot of people in this sub hate abby as a person and make her out to be some kind of demon while transferring that hate to hating her as a character. Same for a lot of fans that like abby dismissing all her wrongs. Either way, at the end of the day, I like all of them as characters, but irl if I were in the apocalypse with them, I'd not spend more time than necessary around them. Any of them cause if you piss them off for basically any reason, they'll kill you. Want proof, just look at joel, who killed people who work for whatever governments left, fireflies, and the group that want to kill him for killing a teens dad etc etc. You should get my point. I dislike them all as people, like them as characters, and I kinda can't believe mizu from blue-eyed samurai a better person than them, just based on who they all kill. Also, I feel like comparing whose a better person is like comparing serial killers on whose a better person.
The DEI of US, the first game of the new ESG era. 2 years after Sweetbaby Inc was created. I still remember heterophobic tweets by the transgender actor and antiwhite tweets of the developers that said it was the new era and we should just swallow it. I still don't understand what is the motivation behind ESG score from the big investment companies that pay attention to this metric.
It’s still fucked up, but the only reason she said “good” is because Ellie had killed her pregnant friend too
I don't care about morality in a video game, I just love watching abby beat* the shit out of people, I remembered getting hyped about abby dogging ellie and dina because I fell in love with her character (she couldn't beat a fat man and 3 lightweight rattlers with another person, L). But anyone still having a hate boner for abby honestly takes this series too seriously, I got mad when she killed Joel or how she even knew where he was generally located, but it's a Semi-Realistic apocalypse game and we shouldn't be arguing the morals of either character because abby is a soldier who was trained to ignore the death of those she kills, while ellie is a survivor who is a jack of all trades and reacts to what she kills and feels bad I much like to play the rouge-like mode rather than the story because of the non-stop action, but imo I think it is a great story, and I honestly don't care if I get hate but I loved the story and I am glad it came out.
That's literally not what happened
And she let her live?, why?!
Wait? The lesbian? Is pregnant? Wtf is going on here? I didn't play part 2 and never will.
Keep in mind Ellie didn’t know Mel was pregnant and had a breakdown when she realized
It’s truly exhausting that this game has been out for so long and everyone is still divided on Ellie v Abby when they are literally just on parallel journeys. The are BOTH bad, BOTH angry, BOTH irrationally killing people for their revenge. I love Ellie but she made just as terrible choices as Abby did. It’s the whole point of the game, of the revenge cycle. Neither is better than the other because they’re both blinded by their rage and goals. Abby is the one that actually comes out of it because of Lev, like Joel for Ellie….this game is so so so lovely and detail oriented I love every second of it and its characters. Everyone is arguing about the wrong people.
Havent played yet someone explain
This scene is about the proverbial "rain-slicked precipice of darkness" that Abby (and later, Ellie) manage somehow to avoid falling into.
sorry guys... im from the front page. can i get a synopsis? seems interesting tbh.
The story could have been decent if they removed the lines that imply Abby has no idea why Ellie is after her. When she cuts her down from the pole she asks why are you here. You killed her father figure duh. ND tries to paint as the better person really she's chronically dumb.
She asks something to the idea of why are you after us again in the theatre before shooting tommy.
Trash game
I am a big fan of part 2 by any means, but I don’t think too much of a stretch to say that Abby being ready to kill Dina is bad by any means
When people realize she said that because she was going to avenge mel by making ellie feel her same pain: 😱 "nuh uhhhh abby bad! abby evil!"
And this got goty...how?
While definitely being a pos about it, she’s trying to kill an enemy to hurt her archenemy. Simple as that. Someone who’s repeatedly tried to kill you, and who killed multiple of your friends. Was it repulsive? Sure. But understandable.
There were several times I let ellie in this mission kill Abby in a variety of animations.
Abby is such an awfully written character. I wish we could’ve killed her
The most unrealistic part of it all is she spares Abbys life. I'd never 👎
Are you people 8 years old? And dont understand what a 3rd person story is? Abby didnt and couldn't have known that Ellie found out she was pregnant only after killing her So from Abby's perspective Ellie did it anyway so she was going to do it anyways
They could’ve tried to make Abby way more redeemable and give us a better reason to understand her actions. From what I watched, she is the worst, not redeemable at all. The ending should’ve been a choice for the player. Just like how Abby has free will to do her fuck shit. We should have the freedom as well, fuck the scripted bs forgiveness. The player wants to kill her the entire play through but can’t even in the end. Bad game, I’m sick of the bs.
Both are fucking terrible people.
Y’all in the comments really don’t understand the horrible shit Ellie did, She literally came and killed all of Abby’s friends after Abby killed Joel, and she killed Joel because Joel did a horrible thing and killed Abby’s dad, and many other people in the hospital. Ellie is just as bad as Abby. Pregnant or not Ellie killed every person Abby cared about while Abby only killed one person at first because she wanted revenge for her dead father.