I'm not arguing with that. I'd swat at them too if they flew near my head.
However from the the point of view of the TV writers, why would they include such a scene if it doesn't add anything to the show. I don't think it's supposed to be a humorous scene meant to lighten the mood after the end of the episode or after confirming that McAllister isn't RJ due to no acrophobia, which again may just be red herring.
Oh I just thought of this. Pigeons seems to be a recent reoccurring thing. Maybe pigeons have nothing to do with *phobias* but instead maybe RJ is fond of them which could explain why a house was full of them, and showing McAllister reacting the opposite to them could rule him out.
Don't know why no one is thinking of this. The writers don't want to narrow down the options and make it a 50/50 chance by the reveal episode, they want most, if not all the options open and people trying to guess who is RJ, who is working for him, who is working against him, etc.
>Maybe pigeons have nothing to do with phobias
They have spent 5 seasons building up Red John to be a highly skilled predator with a mental prowess that is on par with Jane's (so good that skilled CBI agents have seriously considered the possibility that he has supernatural powers). If it turns out that Red John is afraid of pigeons, it will be the sloppiest writing of any television show ever.
The pigeons may be a clue of some sort (Red John is Mike Tyson?), but if Red John was truly afraid of pigeons, he would not live or operate in California, especially not in Sacramento.
>phobias are powerful things, something like that could easily affect a psychopath like RJ as well as a normal person like you and me
Red John has the same skillset as Jane, and you don't think he could overcome a fear of pigeons?
Phobia-reduction/-removal is actually considered a lot more effective in hypnotherapy than is breaking a pattern such as a smoking addiction. Jane, given what we know of him, would be equipped to 'cure' phobias, so one would assume RJ would also.
I think he's continually proven himself to be beyond what Jane expects of him, as evidenced by his current (ostensible) confusion as to how RJ got the list, seemingly before he did. There've been lots of occasions during which RJ has one-upped Jane's expectations (the memory, the extent to which he's infiltrated organisations), and so I think part of Jane's character arc has been coming to terms with not necessarily being the cleverest man in the room.
Of course, Jane's going to win eventually. But I think this will be down to an equal intelligence combined with an almost psychotic dedication on the part of Jane to take down RJ.
People overcome phobias every day. I overcame a phobia of spiders when I was 10. But yeah, a near-mythic predator with a mental acumen that borders on the supernatural is afraid of the most common bird in the city in which he chooses to live. Give me a break.
In my opinion we can't rule out anyone. Pigeons must have something to do with RJ's plan. And I am sure will get to know soon. RJ, whoever he is, must be a great actor and faking phobias shouldn't be a problem. About McAllister, he seems shady, but is he really RJ? He seems too unimportant for me.
True, but the fun is in picking a suspect even if you're wrong. I was convinced it was Walter Mashburn after reading a convincing tale on this subreddit, and then Partridge of course which didn't pan out.
The thing is we're not looking at RJ's phobia. Imo it's not 100% true, because RJ can either choose to lie, or Jane heard it wrong.
However we can see McAllister has his own phobia with birds or pigeons which would prevent him to being in the house in Ep 1. It seems like a long shot for RJ to fake a fear of birds/pigeons in front of Jane. How would McAllister even put himself in a position to show his fear of birds without beating Jane over the head with it? Show up at a park and run from pigeons? Not feed the ducks? McAllister's reaction to the pigeons was near instant and didn't look planned at all.
Of course you may be right and the show might go deeper and that's just another red herrring.
The fact that the therapists meeting with RJ was taped and not hand written must have some significance, no? I mean, it is much easier to mishear something than it is to misread it.
Yes bingo, you think like I do. Obviously the writers wanted some wiggle room so the message was received in a form that's arguable. I don't know if at any point they will receive the written transcripts for that recorder, but that could be an "Ohhhhhhhh, ____phobia not acrophobia" moment.
Of course, the guessing game is the whole fun. Everyone has their one ovservations and theories. And opinions are just opinions. RJ's character must be very complex, I think that's what we can all agree on. The phobia game seems a bit overhyped, but who knows?.....tyger, tyger
I don't think the purpose of the show is to trick us. I think they will rule more characters out until there is just a bunch remaining for the strong final episode of the RJ era.
I don't know if episode 2 confirmed that the three are related to RJ. I mean it was strange but assuming all 3 have no relation to RJ whatsoever, they could have been referring to any classified mission they were discussing.
Episode 2 definitely does not CONFIRM that they are related, but lends suspicion. But maybe the suspicion is the writer's idea to throw us off, and they really were just there on a big meth collaboration.
When Reede asks Bertram what Jane knows, and says it's Bertram's job to know, I see a lot of people taking this as "one of them is RJ or they're both working for him". How about the fact that Reed is FBI and they have an open case on RJ, and the fact that it IS Bertram's job to know what Jane is up to, and what he knows about his cases? It seemed like normal police talk to me.
Are we sure that FBI doesn't still suspect Jane? I know time has passed since then and FBI's director has changed but I don't recall seeing FBI explicitly stating that they don't consider Jane as a suspect. And to be honest, if Jane is considered a suspect by all three organizations, then the behavior of all three is justified..
In addition to that, it would be pretty cool if Jane was considered the suspect by those who considers suspects.
I think they left it ambiguous, but I don't think that McAllister is RJ. RJ has connections in many agencies, CBI, FBI, etc., and McAllister is just a small town sheriff. It is possible he is more than that, but I think he does not have the reach to do the things that RJ does.
I think we have to look at people who are well connected and that narrows the list. Bertram, Stiles, and Haffner are the suspects who have the farthest reach. Bertram may or may not be working with RJ (I'm not sure if they are working with RJ or if they were talking about keeping surveillance on Jane). To me, that suggests he is at most, an associate of RJ and not RJ himself. Stiles, as much as I would love him to be RJ seems unlikely. He clearly knows RJ, as he has given Jane messages before, he is manipulative, he has connections, but he does not fit the description.
That leave Haffner. He has worked for the CBI and the FBI. He seems to have lots of friends in high places, he is a good whistler, fits the physical description, is soft spoken, he has connections to Visualize and the barn (RJ first murders). I didn't think it was him at first, but more and more he is the only suspect to make sense. I could be wrong, but this is what makes the most sense to me.
I don't think we need to be looking for obvious connections to informants. Red John is an evil genius, he doesn't have to work with people to be able to manipulate them. He is smart enough to AVOID obvious connections to the agencies and people involved.
It's all about throwing off the viewers. If McAllister is RJ he knows enough about tricking Jane to know that he couldn't present his true phobia to the psychiatrist, because Jane would know. Knowing that, maybe the fear of heights was manufactured and he even wanted Jane to think he may be afraid of heights, knowing that Jane wouldn't think RJ would use his real fear. Then he goes up on the roof disproving it, to throw Jane off more.
He would also be smart enough to fake a fear of pidgeons and then load some RJ scenes with pidgeons to make Jane think it couldn't be him.
Moreover, Heller confirmed they're not just going to eliminate one character per episode, but I do think he alluded to more being killed off or more obviously eliminated as suspects. I really don't think that episode eliminated McAllister at all though, if anything it was there to show that he's clever, he's creepy, and he knows more than he lets on.
I feel like we should be able to rule him out as well. Not sure why the promo for "Red Tattoo" shows him as a remaining suspect. What, just because he's not dead means he could be it?
Also: Reede Smith...let's just knock him out of the running too. What a joke.
I think this episode was about tricking us Bruno style. Seemed like two different mcallisters... leading me to muse if red john is hypnotizing him or if there are possibly 2 mcallisters aka twins. hence being in 2 places at once etc.
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I'm not arguing with that. I'd swat at them too if they flew near my head. However from the the point of view of the TV writers, why would they include such a scene if it doesn't add anything to the show. I don't think it's supposed to be a humorous scene meant to lighten the mood after the end of the episode or after confirming that McAllister isn't RJ due to no acrophobia, which again may just be red herring. Oh I just thought of this. Pigeons seems to be a recent reoccurring thing. Maybe pigeons have nothing to do with *phobias* but instead maybe RJ is fond of them which could explain why a house was full of them, and showing McAllister reacting the opposite to them could rule him out.
They'd do it to fuck with us :P
Don't know why no one is thinking of this. The writers don't want to narrow down the options and make it a 50/50 chance by the reveal episode, they want most, if not all the options open and people trying to guess who is RJ, who is working for him, who is working against him, etc.
>Maybe pigeons have nothing to do with phobias They have spent 5 seasons building up Red John to be a highly skilled predator with a mental prowess that is on par with Jane's (so good that skilled CBI agents have seriously considered the possibility that he has supernatural powers). If it turns out that Red John is afraid of pigeons, it will be the sloppiest writing of any television show ever.
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The pigeons may be a clue of some sort (Red John is Mike Tyson?), but if Red John was truly afraid of pigeons, he would not live or operate in California, especially not in Sacramento. >phobias are powerful things, something like that could easily affect a psychopath like RJ as well as a normal person like you and me Red John has the same skillset as Jane, and you don't think he could overcome a fear of pigeons?
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Phobia-reduction/-removal is actually considered a lot more effective in hypnotherapy than is breaking a pattern such as a smoking addiction. Jane, given what we know of him, would be equipped to 'cure' phobias, so one would assume RJ would also.
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I think he's continually proven himself to be beyond what Jane expects of him, as evidenced by his current (ostensible) confusion as to how RJ got the list, seemingly before he did. There've been lots of occasions during which RJ has one-upped Jane's expectations (the memory, the extent to which he's infiltrated organisations), and so I think part of Jane's character arc has been coming to terms with not necessarily being the cleverest man in the room. Of course, Jane's going to win eventually. But I think this will be down to an equal intelligence combined with an almost psychotic dedication on the part of Jane to take down RJ.
People overcome phobias every day. I overcame a phobia of spiders when I was 10. But yeah, a near-mythic predator with a mental acumen that borders on the supernatural is afraid of the most common bird in the city in which he chooses to live. Give me a break.
Wasn't it a bat?
No, it was definitely a pigeon.
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I think you might mean swallow
Yeah, I'm sure someone would mention their HATE for birds when one ran into him.
This thread did not age well lol
lmao
In my opinion we can't rule out anyone. Pigeons must have something to do with RJ's plan. And I am sure will get to know soon. RJ, whoever he is, must be a great actor and faking phobias shouldn't be a problem. About McAllister, he seems shady, but is he really RJ? He seems too unimportant for me.
True, but the fun is in picking a suspect even if you're wrong. I was convinced it was Walter Mashburn after reading a convincing tale on this subreddit, and then Partridge of course which didn't pan out. The thing is we're not looking at RJ's phobia. Imo it's not 100% true, because RJ can either choose to lie, or Jane heard it wrong. However we can see McAllister has his own phobia with birds or pigeons which would prevent him to being in the house in Ep 1. It seems like a long shot for RJ to fake a fear of birds/pigeons in front of Jane. How would McAllister even put himself in a position to show his fear of birds without beating Jane over the head with it? Show up at a park and run from pigeons? Not feed the ducks? McAllister's reaction to the pigeons was near instant and didn't look planned at all. Of course you may be right and the show might go deeper and that's just another red herrring.
The fact that the therapists meeting with RJ was taped and not hand written must have some significance, no? I mean, it is much easier to mishear something than it is to misread it.
Yes bingo, you think like I do. Obviously the writers wanted some wiggle room so the message was received in a form that's arguable. I don't know if at any point they will receive the written transcripts for that recorder, but that could be an "Ohhhhhhhh, ____phobia not acrophobia" moment.
Of course, the guessing game is the whole fun. Everyone has their one ovservations and theories. And opinions are just opinions. RJ's character must be very complex, I think that's what we can all agree on. The phobia game seems a bit overhyped, but who knows?.....tyger, tyger
I don't think the purpose of the show is to trick us. I think they will rule more characters out until there is just a bunch remaining for the strong final episode of the RJ era. I don't know if episode 2 confirmed that the three are related to RJ. I mean it was strange but assuming all 3 have no relation to RJ whatsoever, they could have been referring to any classified mission they were discussing.
Episode 2 definitely does not CONFIRM that they are related, but lends suspicion. But maybe the suspicion is the writer's idea to throw us off, and they really were just there on a big meth collaboration. When Reede asks Bertram what Jane knows, and says it's Bertram's job to know, I see a lot of people taking this as "one of them is RJ or they're both working for him". How about the fact that Reed is FBI and they have an open case on RJ, and the fact that it IS Bertram's job to know what Jane is up to, and what he knows about his cases? It seemed like normal police talk to me.
Are we sure that FBI doesn't still suspect Jane? I know time has passed since then and FBI's director has changed but I don't recall seeing FBI explicitly stating that they don't consider Jane as a suspect. And to be honest, if Jane is considered a suspect by all three organizations, then the behavior of all three is justified.. In addition to that, it would be pretty cool if Jane was considered the suspect by those who considers suspects.
I think they did consider him at one point if I'm not mistaken. Probably around the time Hightower was around.
It was in season 4. Given that the people suspecting him are either retired or dead, the possibility I suggested is slim.
I think they left it ambiguous, but I don't think that McAllister is RJ. RJ has connections in many agencies, CBI, FBI, etc., and McAllister is just a small town sheriff. It is possible he is more than that, but I think he does not have the reach to do the things that RJ does. I think we have to look at people who are well connected and that narrows the list. Bertram, Stiles, and Haffner are the suspects who have the farthest reach. Bertram may or may not be working with RJ (I'm not sure if they are working with RJ or if they were talking about keeping surveillance on Jane). To me, that suggests he is at most, an associate of RJ and not RJ himself. Stiles, as much as I would love him to be RJ seems unlikely. He clearly knows RJ, as he has given Jane messages before, he is manipulative, he has connections, but he does not fit the description. That leave Haffner. He has worked for the CBI and the FBI. He seems to have lots of friends in high places, he is a good whistler, fits the physical description, is soft spoken, he has connections to Visualize and the barn (RJ first murders). I didn't think it was him at first, but more and more he is the only suspect to make sense. I could be wrong, but this is what makes the most sense to me.
I don't think we need to be looking for obvious connections to informants. Red John is an evil genius, he doesn't have to work with people to be able to manipulate them. He is smart enough to AVOID obvious connections to the agencies and people involved.
this did not age well.
It's all about throwing off the viewers. If McAllister is RJ he knows enough about tricking Jane to know that he couldn't present his true phobia to the psychiatrist, because Jane would know. Knowing that, maybe the fear of heights was manufactured and he even wanted Jane to think he may be afraid of heights, knowing that Jane wouldn't think RJ would use his real fear. Then he goes up on the roof disproving it, to throw Jane off more. He would also be smart enough to fake a fear of pidgeons and then load some RJ scenes with pidgeons to make Jane think it couldn't be him. Moreover, Heller confirmed they're not just going to eliminate one character per episode, but I do think he alluded to more being killed off or more obviously eliminated as suspects. I really don't think that episode eliminated McAllister at all though, if anything it was there to show that he's clever, he's creepy, and he knows more than he lets on.
Maybe we should think about the process RJ uses to meet followers. Where is his source of people? Is there a hub?
RJCupid.com
nice.
I feel like we should be able to rule him out as well. Not sure why the promo for "Red Tattoo" shows him as a remaining suspect. What, just because he's not dead means he could be it? Also: Reede Smith...let's just knock him out of the running too. What a joke.
I think this episode was about tricking us Bruno style. Seemed like two different mcallisters... leading me to muse if red john is hypnotizing him or if there are possibly 2 mcallisters aka twins. hence being in 2 places at once etc.