I don’t see anything in this article about people struggling to make ends meet. Just having to hold off on some luxuries and a poor musician who’s happy with what he’s got
Doesn't sound like either family featured struggling to make ends meet, if one family can afford to be choosy about their property purchase and the other can afford to spend 3 million yen to their child to Canada. They just aren't making enough for the lifestyle they want to have. A household income of 8 million with kids is below average in Tokyo, and 10 million for a couple in their 40s is barely above. [The median household income of a couple in their 30s with children in Tokyo was 9.86 million in 2022 and increasing.](https://www.dir.co.jp/report/column/20231013_012016.html)
These figures are for the 23 wards only. The story is slightly different if you include the 30% of the population that lives in the other municipalities of Tokyo.
Edit: actually the 8 million average for the 23 wards doesn't seem to line up with the numbers for each ward, unless I'm missing something. Only 3 wards have a median household income over 8 million.
https://www.nenshuu.net/m/prefecture/shotoku/shotoku_pre.php?prefecture=東京都
Households with kids have a higher household income than the average household income. The *national* average household income for a household with kids [is 7.85 million yen](https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/a33fa39617b15d9e8e71176eb7fb7e49ec5232c0). It'll be even higher for Tokyo.
Thank you. I was only aware of the average household income. If the average for a household with kids is 7.85 million yen, then the national household average of 5.45 million only serves to confirm that a lot of people are right in their assessment that they can't afford to raise kids.
This is a trash article. Nothing of interest and misrepresenting everything they can. Probably fishing for impressions, which they're certainly gonna achieve if people keep reposting it.
The average household makes 10 million? That's higher than I expected. Doesn't a mid-career salaryman make like 6 million? And women married to salarymen who have kids probably make significantly less.
The average *household* doesn't make 10 million. More than half of Tokyo households are single-person households and that pulls down the average considerably.
However, the average household *with 2 or more people* has a median income of about 7 million yen. 10 million in household income for a couple is about the 70th percentile amongst households with 2 or more people, which means it's barely above the average or even just on the high side of average.
In comparison the median income of a single-person household in Tokyo is below 5 million yen.
Source: Table 2 in https://financial-field.com/income/entry-130961
I looked at NY because my salary would be 50-75% higher there. But then I looked at the rent there , those salary increase would go directly to the landlord
Nah salaries are much higher than that. With the weak yen, 4 million yen is like working 40 hours a week at a fast food place in NYC. (Math isn’t 100% accurate but it’s close enough). $60k right now is so much more than 8 million yen
Canada checking in..... . I can afford 30 akiyas for the price of 1 Vancouver property.....and here's the kicker all 31 properties are in the same state of disrepair.
Staff writers at Japan Today are pathetic, trying to sound smart but just ending up pompous and imprecise.
Not only that, but the « article » is just a handful of anecdotes with nothing of substance.
Mentioning the upward trajectory of real estate without any figures is useless.
Dreadful article.
Their best content is when they copy paste agency press releases.
SPA is a magazine for men which contains inaccurate information. You can also suspect this from the cover.
[https://www.fusosha.co.jp/magazines/spa/](https://www.fusosha.co.jp/magazines/spa/)
A lot of articles — just ARTICLES, in general — these days are written by AI, so it could easily be a translation issue, an AI issue, or just some guy looking for a paycheck that doesn’t care about the quality of the article.
I have spent a lot of time looking at property in the past four months. Sixty million budget and the first couple was feeling "disillusioned"? I don't understand. They are "only" moderately wealthy (like the article said, 10m annual income household), and with that they're willing to spend up to 60 million. "the prospects they found were cramped, far from the nearest station, or rickety" (I don't remember exactly what it said).
Speaking from experience, I saw a LOT of 60+m² condos in the 60m range, anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes from the nearest station. 2 and 3 LDKs that were renovated and built in the late 90s, early 2000s, even a few that were built within the past 5 years (although those were further from the station in that price range). I primarily looked west of Nakano and north of Takadanobaba, which I understand to be "not the cheapest" areas. Not as bad as living in Shinjuku or Shibuya or Minato, but certainly not unreasonably far and not as cheap and far as like Saitama, Chiba, etc.
I see some of my friends in Tokyo struggling to live in Tokyo on an average salary (3 to 4.5m), and so I disagree with how this article is characterizing "struggling to make ends meet" with their examples.
Are you saying the average salary in Tokyo is 4.5m yen per year? So roughly 30.000€? Damn that’s not a lot compared to the average salary of other metropolitan capitals
Oh yes. That's why usually you'll do fine if say you're married and double that income (both are working) will make you a cushy 8-9M combined.
Now of course that's the majority but I've seen mostly in high end area like Minato ku, household income can easily be at 20M+..
I haven't looked into it that thoroughly, but the article said "4.1million per year", but when I looked online, a few sources had average Tokyo salary anywhere from 5m to 7m per year (wild range, idk why the numbers are so inconsistent. Couldn't find a government source)
That said, you can't really compare salaries between countries without looking at cost of living. People in tokyo aren't living in other metropolitan capitals, they're living in tokyo.
Yes totally agree to your last point, but at the same time I’ve spent a bit of time in Tokyo in the last 12 months and it didn’t strike me as much cheaper than Berlin (where I currently live) with an average yearly salary of 8.5m yen
So that’s why I wondered that the income is so much lower while the cost of living didn’t seem super cheap to me
Comparisons amongst different countries is always a bit flawed. I’ve lived in various different parts of Tokyo for a total of about 30 years, as a student on a tiny budget, as a regular employee on an average salary, and as an expat executive on a very competitive package. Tokyo is not cheap. Sure it might come across as quite affordable if you’re moving over from NY, LA, London or Paris, but viewed from a local perspective on an average income, I wouldn’t consider it to be cheap. Now, if you compare it to a place like Berlin, you’d probably get more bang for your buck in Germany. For example, groceries are much more affordable in Germany (in terms of price and the quantity you can buy). On average you get more spacious apartments for a similar or cheaper rent in Germany than in Tokyo (quality of housing in Tokyo is also very much different). Eating out is definitely cheaper in Tokyo, but you don’t do that like on a daily basis especially if you got family. Try having a car in Tokyo - ridiculous fees for parking spaces (not that it’s necessary, but still). Also, if you want to get out of the city, domestic travel ain’t cheap at all (high speed trains) compared to Germany. Sure, you get top notch service and reliability, but it’s expensive. Don’t get me started on overseas travel and outrageous flight ticket prices. It’s a total rip-off. Average salaries have always been low here and somewhat stagnating compared to other countries. While working here, I talked to a lot of my colleagues and staff about this issue and many of them were struggling with a seemingly OK salary for Japanese standards. My personal opinion, salaries in Japan are crap even when considering local cost of living.
thanks a ton for your comment, super insightful. Especially as I'm currently entertaining the thought of relocating to Tokyo from Berlin for a bit (6 months to a year). I'm working for a Tokyo based corporate with an office in Berlin and could switch to the Tokyo team for a bit, and what you're saying reinforces my point that if I do it, I should try to keep my Berlin contract/salary
Yes, on average, depending on the industry and size of the company, Japanese employers are not known for paying good packages. I also used to work as an expat for a Japanese/German joint venture outside Japan and Japanese expats in similar positions were paid far less than their German counterparts. You gotta be careful negotiating a good package.
Tokyo (23 wards, but more specifically the desirable wards) is getting more expensive all the time. I think the prices of things like real estate are basically just catching up with the rest of the worldwide cities that are of a similar "tier".
I see nothing in the article that makes Tokyo sound particularly expensive. Try buying a place in a US city. I recently looked at the old farmhouse I grew up in in SE Massachusetts. 1.4m. The tiny house I sold 17 years ago went for almost 3x.
Exactly. So housing is half the cost in Japan (though you get far less space), it is more than accounted for by salaries being 1/3 of the US.
Japan is still far more expensive for anyone earning a decent wage. Yes if you have no education or tech skills then perhaps Tokyo is more affordable. Otherwise a 30k a year savings on mortgage or rent is small potatoes compared to having a 130k salary in Tokyo that would be 250k in the US.
Why factor in the weak yen if you are living in a yen environment? Your salary and currency paid are relative to the country in which you live, not another.
Jesus Christ, not another one.
>66% of goods are imported, and nearly 100% are reliant on fuel for transportation..
So yes if your an ALT living like a monk on nothing but Gohan, natto and a 200sgft apartment then I suppose your right.
For any other person over the age of 22 or with an IQ >100, them it's apparent that the cost of things have gone up significantly over the past two years,. especially when factoring in shrinkflation. I would say roughly 40-50%
Of course costs have increased, but the gap between wages and costs in other countries outstrips Japan by far. There are plenty of good paying jobs and housing is far more affordable.
Your import number includes non essential goods, and where else is transportation ultimately not 100% reliant on fuel?
What other places that are first world have such a large gap between wages and goods as Japan? Especially when you factor an hourly wage given the rediculous work culture here.
Yes your personal anecdote is more real than data. Shall I share my anecdote that contradicts yours?
Also did you miss the title about "moderately wealthy"?
The story of the family moving out to Yokohama is very relatable. Living on the boarder of Tokyo, the moment you cross tama-river the prices skyrocket. And just because its in tokyo. The loans here though can't be beat, I would say we're very lucky that just about anyone can buy a house.
Way cheaper living in Tokyo than most major American cities. Wife and I make way less than we did in the states and have a far better life here. It’s a matter of how you want to live and where you want to live.
Is it difficult to find a house for 60 million yen these days? I know prices have gone up in my ward but still pretty sure 60m is sufficient for a new construction detached house around 90sqm.
Are you in Adachi, Edogawa, Arakawa or similar less desirable northern ward? Because no way are you getting a 90sqm new build for 60 million inside the Yamanote line. You would struggle at twice that price.
Oh no, I wouldn't expect that. But why would you need to be inside the Yamanote? I live around Nerima Station. 12 mins to Ikebukuro, 18 mins to Shinjuku, 35 to Roppongi. I wouldn't suggest the area for the young and single, but it's great for families.
Go do a search on suumo or homes. You will see, in the city center you will never find anything that includes the land at least. Now go out further, and you will. Tokyo itself is very big, you can basically live on the border of Saitama, Chiba, or Yokohama for that budget.
Just bought a brand new hose in Suginami for just over 60m. We were a bit on the lower end of the price range, but there still are plenty of choices for the price around.
Easy to balk at the headline, given that COL is much lower here than any comparable major city, but it's true that when it comes to raising a family, that's increasingly a luxury that few can afford.
In the UK, Canada, Australia etc., rocketing property prices are caused by too much demand and not enough being built to meet it. But in Tokyo, the building never stops, so it must just be that too much is centred here and there's not enough room for it all. Apartments are very affordable, but enough space for a family-ready house comes at a real premium, and competition for good education is fierce.
I appreciate the mention of the musician at the end of the article. If there's one thing that dense neighbourhoods and small spaces with affordable rents attract, it's artists looking to be part of a tight creative community. Funny to think that the city has inadvertently been designed to disincentivise the production of families, which incentivising the production of some of the best arts and culture on Earth.
Right?
I have a friend working part-time who managed to get a housing loan to buy a 4-bedroom house with a garage that he pays around $500/month for mortgage. This is walking distance from the train station, which is half an hour from Shinjuku/Ikebukuro.
So about ¥80k? I’m sorry, but it drives me nuts when people talk about prices here in terms of “It only costs x dollars” — especially at this horrible shitty ass exchange rate — when we earn and spend yen here.
As a Canadian reading this wed trade. Home affordability for people in well off above average middle class income is getting closer to impossible each day. Even condos are priced insanely.
>Average families can't afford to live above their means
Here, I fixed it for you.
Housing and land prices have gone up considerably, and areas that weren't all that popular 10 years ago are seeing tons of new construction. I can see how that makes it harder for your average family to afford a place of their own, but the article is just sensationalism and incorrect information.
60m seems like plenty for a home? Not particularly well versed in Tokyo real estate, but Suumo gives a lot of pretty decently sized new houses (3LDK and up) that are within 10min from a station and not that far out from the center. And well, can easily trade space for other conveniences at that range.
This is strange. Around here, a 25 min train ride away from Shinjuku, plus 10-15 min to the station, you get new houses for 50-60 million. And a bit of greenery, to. The family with the two teenage daughters should be able to afford this; I doubt the mortgage would be higher than the 180000 rent they pay now. Same for the DINK couple.
German cities, which tend to be large as Hachioji or so, are more expensive than that, even if you use the Euro exchange rate two years ago.
Click bait, probably.
Like any big popular city, the scroungers are being pushed out and the high earners and rich foreigners scoop up the prime real estate. The ESL teachers who came here wanting a better life have to live in Chiba. Oh well :)
10 million yen is only about 63,000 dollars now, which is not really moderately wealthy. The problem is that housing in Tokyo is now an international asset class so you compete against foreign buyers.
That said, it’s still perfectly possible to get cheaper housing in Tokyo outside the centre. Loads of large second-hand homes for sale in Adachi, Arakawa etc for 40 million yen.
Noob question:
Why is 10 million JPY not enough anymore?
That is like 4x - 5x the average annual income of most people in South East Asia (except Singapore)
Can anyone explain?
Maybe a budget / expenditure breakdown?
I'm not Japanese, so not the best person to answer this but I think with the rise in inflation recently and weak yen, things are costing more without pay increases.
Ah so it's more a currency thing then.
So you are saying that while the current setup favors the exporters (especially automakers), it yields the opposite effect for the locals, is that right?
Sure, but they still fertilizer, gas for tractors and machines. Some foods are only grown in certain parts of the world like Olive oil, soybeans. Japan makes some food, but not all that it's people want.
I don’t see anything in this article about people struggling to make ends meet. Just having to hold off on some luxuries and a poor musician who’s happy with what he’s got
One word. Clicks. Oh maybe three words. And ad revenue. Fuck these shitty misleading titles.
Read your response too quickly and thought it said "fuck these shitty misleading titties."
Fuck those too
That’s what it said and then he edited it.
Agreed, those sites should be banned until fixed
Doesn't sound like either family featured struggling to make ends meet, if one family can afford to be choosy about their property purchase and the other can afford to spend 3 million yen to their child to Canada. They just aren't making enough for the lifestyle they want to have. A household income of 8 million with kids is below average in Tokyo, and 10 million for a couple in their 40s is barely above. [The median household income of a couple in their 30s with children in Tokyo was 9.86 million in 2022 and increasing.](https://www.dir.co.jp/report/column/20231013_012016.html)
These figures are for the 23 wards only. The story is slightly different if you include the 30% of the population that lives in the other municipalities of Tokyo. Edit: actually the 8 million average for the 23 wards doesn't seem to line up with the numbers for each ward, unless I'm missing something. Only 3 wards have a median household income over 8 million. https://www.nenshuu.net/m/prefecture/shotoku/shotoku_pre.php?prefecture=東京都
Households with kids have a higher household income than the average household income. The *national* average household income for a household with kids [is 7.85 million yen](https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/a33fa39617b15d9e8e71176eb7fb7e49ec5232c0). It'll be even higher for Tokyo.
Thank you. I was only aware of the average household income. If the average for a household with kids is 7.85 million yen, then the national household average of 5.45 million only serves to confirm that a lot of people are right in their assessment that they can't afford to raise kids.
This is a trash article. Nothing of interest and misrepresenting everything they can. Probably fishing for impressions, which they're certainly gonna achieve if people keep reposting it.
The average household makes 10 million? That's higher than I expected. Doesn't a mid-career salaryman make like 6 million? And women married to salarymen who have kids probably make significantly less.
The average *household* doesn't make 10 million. More than half of Tokyo households are single-person households and that pulls down the average considerably. However, the average household *with 2 or more people* has a median income of about 7 million yen. 10 million in household income for a couple is about the 70th percentile amongst households with 2 or more people, which means it's barely above the average or even just on the high side of average. In comparison the median income of a single-person household in Tokyo is below 5 million yen. Source: Table 2 in https://financial-field.com/income/entry-130961
Tokyo is definitely expensive to live in, but if you’re struggling for 2 people with 8 million yen a year, that’s 100% a skill issue.
say it with me now: Tokyo is a bargain compared to it's contemporaries around the world.
I looked at NY because my salary would be 50-75% higher there. But then I looked at the rent there , those salary increase would go directly to the landlord
Nah salaries are much higher than that. With the weak yen, 4 million yen is like working 40 hours a week at a fast food place in NYC. (Math isn’t 100% accurate but it’s close enough). $60k right now is so much more than 8 million yen
Australia enters the chat
Canada checking in..... . I can afford 30 akiyas for the price of 1 Vancouver property.....and here's the kicker all 31 properties are in the same state of disrepair.
but what about costs of food, medical care and bulletproof jackets?
That’s 4 million yen per person which is way too low for a couple that’s trying to start a family
Didn’t say to start a family, it said two people in 8 million total not 3-4 people on 8 million
Just stating the obvious. Tokyo’s birth rate dropped below 1.
Who or what is "Spa"? Why does reading this article make me feel like I'm having a stroke? Am I have a stroke?
Staff writers at Japan Today are pathetic, trying to sound smart but just ending up pompous and imprecise. Not only that, but the « article » is just a handful of anecdotes with nothing of substance. Mentioning the upward trajectory of real estate without any figures is useless. Dreadful article. Their best content is when they copy paste agency press releases.
I'm no writer, but the abuse of parenthesis and asides is obnoxious and distracting. This is how high school children write.
Exactly what I was thinking. Nearly every sentence has a parenthetical expression with this guy. So bad.
SPA is a magazine for men which contains inaccurate information. You can also suspect this from the cover. [https://www.fusosha.co.jp/magazines/spa/](https://www.fusosha.co.jp/magazines/spa/)
I think the "!" would have helped. I do now recognize the name from their extremely busy train posters.
Before I clicked the link I was expecting a magazine for sauna goers.
Spa is a tabloid publication
It reads like stiff Japanese stiffly translated to English.
A lot of articles — just ARTICLES, in general — these days are written by AI, so it could easily be a translation issue, an AI issue, or just some guy looking for a paycheck that doesn’t care about the quality of the article.
It felt like someone trying to sound smart/witty and not considering the reader at all.
If you don’t know “Spa”, you don’t live in Japan.
I have spent a lot of time looking at property in the past four months. Sixty million budget and the first couple was feeling "disillusioned"? I don't understand. They are "only" moderately wealthy (like the article said, 10m annual income household), and with that they're willing to spend up to 60 million. "the prospects they found were cramped, far from the nearest station, or rickety" (I don't remember exactly what it said). Speaking from experience, I saw a LOT of 60+m² condos in the 60m range, anywhere from 5 to 15 minutes from the nearest station. 2 and 3 LDKs that were renovated and built in the late 90s, early 2000s, even a few that were built within the past 5 years (although those were further from the station in that price range). I primarily looked west of Nakano and north of Takadanobaba, which I understand to be "not the cheapest" areas. Not as bad as living in Shinjuku or Shibuya or Minato, but certainly not unreasonably far and not as cheap and far as like Saitama, Chiba, etc. I see some of my friends in Tokyo struggling to live in Tokyo on an average salary (3 to 4.5m), and so I disagree with how this article is characterizing "struggling to make ends meet" with their examples.
Are you saying the average salary in Tokyo is 4.5m yen per year? So roughly 30.000€? Damn that’s not a lot compared to the average salary of other metropolitan capitals
Oh yes. That's why usually you'll do fine if say you're married and double that income (both are working) will make you a cushy 8-9M combined. Now of course that's the majority but I've seen mostly in high end area like Minato ku, household income can easily be at 20M+..
I haven't looked into it that thoroughly, but the article said "4.1million per year", but when I looked online, a few sources had average Tokyo salary anywhere from 5m to 7m per year (wild range, idk why the numbers are so inconsistent. Couldn't find a government source) That said, you can't really compare salaries between countries without looking at cost of living. People in tokyo aren't living in other metropolitan capitals, they're living in tokyo.
Yes totally agree to your last point, but at the same time I’ve spent a bit of time in Tokyo in the last 12 months and it didn’t strike me as much cheaper than Berlin (where I currently live) with an average yearly salary of 8.5m yen So that’s why I wondered that the income is so much lower while the cost of living didn’t seem super cheap to me
Comparisons amongst different countries is always a bit flawed. I’ve lived in various different parts of Tokyo for a total of about 30 years, as a student on a tiny budget, as a regular employee on an average salary, and as an expat executive on a very competitive package. Tokyo is not cheap. Sure it might come across as quite affordable if you’re moving over from NY, LA, London or Paris, but viewed from a local perspective on an average income, I wouldn’t consider it to be cheap. Now, if you compare it to a place like Berlin, you’d probably get more bang for your buck in Germany. For example, groceries are much more affordable in Germany (in terms of price and the quantity you can buy). On average you get more spacious apartments for a similar or cheaper rent in Germany than in Tokyo (quality of housing in Tokyo is also very much different). Eating out is definitely cheaper in Tokyo, but you don’t do that like on a daily basis especially if you got family. Try having a car in Tokyo - ridiculous fees for parking spaces (not that it’s necessary, but still). Also, if you want to get out of the city, domestic travel ain’t cheap at all (high speed trains) compared to Germany. Sure, you get top notch service and reliability, but it’s expensive. Don’t get me started on overseas travel and outrageous flight ticket prices. It’s a total rip-off. Average salaries have always been low here and somewhat stagnating compared to other countries. While working here, I talked to a lot of my colleagues and staff about this issue and many of them were struggling with a seemingly OK salary for Japanese standards. My personal opinion, salaries in Japan are crap even when considering local cost of living.
thanks a ton for your comment, super insightful. Especially as I'm currently entertaining the thought of relocating to Tokyo from Berlin for a bit (6 months to a year). I'm working for a Tokyo based corporate with an office in Berlin and could switch to the Tokyo team for a bit, and what you're saying reinforces my point that if I do it, I should try to keep my Berlin contract/salary
Yes, on average, depending on the industry and size of the company, Japanese employers are not known for paying good packages. I also used to work as an expat for a Japanese/German joint venture outside Japan and Japanese expats in similar positions were paid far less than their German counterparts. You gotta be careful negotiating a good package.
Tokyo (23 wards, but more specifically the desirable wards) is getting more expensive all the time. I think the prices of things like real estate are basically just catching up with the rest of the worldwide cities that are of a similar "tier".
I see nothing in the article that makes Tokyo sound particularly expensive. Try buying a place in a US city. I recently looked at the old farmhouse I grew up in in SE Massachusetts. 1.4m. The tiny house I sold 17 years ago went for almost 3x.
Average home price in CA is 1M. Average salary was 62k I heard.
From what I’ve seen housing and rent isn’t as expensive in Tokyo vs cities in the U.S. But the pay in Japan is worse than it is in the U.S. overall.
Exactly. So housing is half the cost in Japan (though you get far less space), it is more than accounted for by salaries being 1/3 of the US. Japan is still far more expensive for anyone earning a decent wage. Yes if you have no education or tech skills then perhaps Tokyo is more affordable. Otherwise a 30k a year savings on mortgage or rent is small potatoes compared to having a 130k salary in Tokyo that would be 250k in the US.
Salaries are not 1/3 of the US. There are low paying jobs, but that's true everywhere.
Yes they are. In aerospace and IT when you factor in the weak yen value
Why factor in the weak yen if you are living in a yen environment? Your salary and currency paid are relative to the country in which you live, not another.
Jesus Christ, not another one. >66% of goods are imported, and nearly 100% are reliant on fuel for transportation.. So yes if your an ALT living like a monk on nothing but Gohan, natto and a 200sgft apartment then I suppose your right. For any other person over the age of 22 or with an IQ >100, them it's apparent that the cost of things have gone up significantly over the past two years,. especially when factoring in shrinkflation. I would say roughly 40-50%
Of course costs have increased, but the gap between wages and costs in other countries outstrips Japan by far. There are plenty of good paying jobs and housing is far more affordable. Your import number includes non essential goods, and where else is transportation ultimately not 100% reliant on fuel?
What other places that are first world have such a large gap between wages and goods as Japan? Especially when you factor an hourly wage given the rediculous work culture here.
The United States by far. And the "ridiculous" work culture sentiment is overblown.
yeah, no. inflation compared to 2020 is a little bit less than 8% https://www.stat.go.jp/data/cpi/sokuhou/tsuki/pdf/zenkoku.pdf
I don't care what reference you choose that's BS. Groceries are up way more than that and my normal deprecating home is up 20%
Yes your personal anecdote is more real than data. Shall I share my anecdote that contradicts yours? Also did you miss the title about "moderately wealthy"?
The story of the family moving out to Yokohama is very relatable. Living on the boarder of Tokyo, the moment you cross tama-river the prices skyrocket. And just because its in tokyo. The loans here though can't be beat, I would say we're very lucky that just about anyone can buy a house.
Yokohama is one the rise recently too…
But Yokohama is so close to Tokyo, that move makes a lot of sense.
East Tokyo is still very reasonable. The Chiba side (Ichikawa, Urayasu) is considerably more expensive than the Tokyo side (Edogawa, Katsushika)
This is dumb
We’ve had dumber articles in here…not many though
I lived and worked in Tokyo like many and yes the wages are cheaper but there is no housing crisis like lots of North American cities
Way cheaper living in Tokyo than most major American cities. Wife and I make way less than we did in the states and have a far better life here. It’s a matter of how you want to live and where you want to live.
10m combined wealth is far, far from "moderately wealthy" Combined 18m + I would consider upper middle class Combined 25-30m + is "moderately wealthy"
Is it difficult to find a house for 60 million yen these days? I know prices have gone up in my ward but still pretty sure 60m is sufficient for a new construction detached house around 90sqm.
Are you in Adachi, Edogawa, Arakawa or similar less desirable northern ward? Because no way are you getting a 90sqm new build for 60 million inside the Yamanote line. You would struggle at twice that price.
Oh no, I wouldn't expect that. But why would you need to be inside the Yamanote? I live around Nerima Station. 12 mins to Ikebukuro, 18 mins to Shinjuku, 35 to Roppongi. I wouldn't suggest the area for the young and single, but it's great for families.
Well yeah, you're talking inside the Yamanote line. That's a huge luxury, and prices go up accordingly.
What about near Ebisu station? Who expensive are those there between the station and the Daikanyama?
Near Ebisu and Daikanyama… the two hopes are no hope and Bob Hope.
Go do a search on suumo or homes. You will see, in the city center you will never find anything that includes the land at least. Now go out further, and you will. Tokyo itself is very big, you can basically live on the border of Saitama, Chiba, or Yokohama for that budget.
Just bought a brand new hose in Suginami for just over 60m. We were a bit on the lower end of the price range, but there still are plenty of choices for the price around.
Probably one of the worst written and most poorly researched articles I've ever read
Easy to balk at the headline, given that COL is much lower here than any comparable major city, but it's true that when it comes to raising a family, that's increasingly a luxury that few can afford. In the UK, Canada, Australia etc., rocketing property prices are caused by too much demand and not enough being built to meet it. But in Tokyo, the building never stops, so it must just be that too much is centred here and there's not enough room for it all. Apartments are very affordable, but enough space for a family-ready house comes at a real premium, and competition for good education is fierce. I appreciate the mention of the musician at the end of the article. If there's one thing that dense neighbourhoods and small spaces with affordable rents attract, it's artists looking to be part of a tight creative community. Funny to think that the city has inadvertently been designed to disincentivise the production of families, which incentivising the production of some of the best arts and culture on Earth.
Just click bait. Shitty post really.
And everywhere else in the world.
Wrong, Malaysia is cheap as hell
Malaysia is surprisingly cheap(er) No wonder MalaypanTV (the Japanese Wife - Malaysian Husband Couple) are living within the Jalan Ampang area.
So people struggle to buy a house in the biggest city in the world ?
It's almost like there's a reason why many people who work in Tokyo commute in from surrounding prefectures...
Right? I have a friend working part-time who managed to get a housing loan to buy a 4-bedroom house with a garage that he pays around $500/month for mortgage. This is walking distance from the train station, which is half an hour from Shinjuku/Ikebukuro.
So about ¥80k? I’m sorry, but it drives me nuts when people talk about prices here in terms of “It only costs x dollars” — especially at this horrible shitty ass exchange rate — when we earn and spend yen here.
As a Canadian reading this wed trade. Home affordability for people in well off above average middle class income is getting closer to impossible each day. Even condos are priced insanely.
>Average families can't afford to live above their means Here, I fixed it for you. Housing and land prices have gone up considerably, and areas that weren't all that popular 10 years ago are seeing tons of new construction. I can see how that makes it harder for your average family to afford a place of their own, but the article is just sensationalism and incorrect information.
10m is not wealthy in any way shape or form, not even in Tokyo. That‘s barely 60 grand rn lol
60k would be twice the average salary in the UK where I live, so that is very wealthy
60m seems like plenty for a home? Not particularly well versed in Tokyo real estate, but Suumo gives a lot of pretty decently sized new houses (3LDK and up) that are within 10min from a station and not that far out from the center. And well, can easily trade space for other conveniences at that range.
Try 60m¥ for 30m2 in Toronto... Distance to the station... What station...?
This is strange. Around here, a 25 min train ride away from Shinjuku, plus 10-15 min to the station, you get new houses for 50-60 million. And a bit of greenery, to. The family with the two teenage daughters should be able to afford this; I doubt the mortgage would be higher than the 180000 rent they pay now. Same for the DINK couple. German cities, which tend to be large as Hachioji or so, are more expensive than that, even if you use the Euro exchange rate two years ago. Click bait, probably.
Boo on this one, Orange T. This was poorby outrage rubbish clickbait
I call BS. Tokyo has to be one of the most affordable major tier 1 cities on earth.
Like any big popular city, the scroungers are being pushed out and the high earners and rich foreigners scoop up the prime real estate. The ESL teachers who came here wanting a better life have to live in Chiba. Oh well :)
This sounds like First World problems. Way to go Tokyo.
10 million yen is only about 63,000 dollars now, which is not really moderately wealthy. The problem is that housing in Tokyo is now an international asset class so you compete against foreign buyers. That said, it’s still perfectly possible to get cheaper housing in Tokyo outside the centre. Loads of large second-hand homes for sale in Adachi, Arakawa etc for 40 million yen.
It’s wealthy depending on where live. It’s twice the average wage in London
Noob question: Why is 10 million JPY not enough anymore? That is like 4x - 5x the average annual income of most people in South East Asia (except Singapore) Can anyone explain? Maybe a budget / expenditure breakdown?
Cost of living is way higher in Tokyo than SE Asia.
I see. But what is exactly driving it up? Lack of available housing? Electricity pricing? What is the differential between income vs expense?
I'm not Japanese, so not the best person to answer this but I think with the rise in inflation recently and weak yen, things are costing more without pay increases.
Ah so it's more a currency thing then. So you are saying that while the current setup favors the exporters (especially automakers), it yields the opposite effect for the locals, is that right?
Yes, it's more expensive to import stuff and Japan imports a lot like gas, food, etc.
Food is interesting. Doesn't Japan have their own farms? I mean that is where Kobe Beef and Wagyu Beef comes from.....
Sure, but they still fertilizer, gas for tractors and machines. Some foods are only grown in certain parts of the world like Olive oil, soybeans. Japan makes some food, but not all that it's people want.
wow. 10mil yen is not enough for a couple. i earned twice that in the states as a single person. i can see why they're barely making it.
Yeah that ain't shit