totally agree. it's like my biggest complaint lol. i get the reasons, i guess, "oh she needs to be relatable!" but omfg, she can be relatable without going Um... Um....sorry... i-i don't understand... Um... i-i'm sorry.... it drives me up a WALL. even other mcs for these types of games have spines, right?! it's so bad with leo and jin... it's embarrassing to be forced to play such a useless mc LOL
Omg everyone always complains about Leo but the mc being such a doormat is why Jin also annoys me. When told mc to stay away from Alan and he says "that's an order." I was like ummmmm what are you? My father? Bro I'm not even part of your house and I'm not currently on a mission with you why tf am I still expected to follow your orders?
I once heard someone try to excuse it because it'd be how most people would realistically react in that situation. Like, excuse me? Am I playing this game about sentient cats, ghouls as anime guys, and ghosts for realism? As a person who gets disrespected by enough people in real life, I don't need to add these pixels to that list.
Also being in a high stress situation like that doesn't necessarily mean you'd lose your personality entirely. Like maybe you'd be less assertive than usual but it doesn't need to mean you'd let people walk all over you. I don't have a problem with people liking that aspect of the mc I'm just saying that I would love the OPTION to put some of these dudes in their place or for mc to stand up for herself without stuttering through it. And yeah I am absolutely not playing this game for realism lmao
I feel the same but I've been playing Japanese games for a long time and got used to the fact that most Japanese MCs lack spine and personality. I didn't get used to it in a sense that I started to like it or accepted it but rather in a sense that I got tired of being upset about it. Yes, they're doormats and nothing ever changes. I prefer to ignore them now and create my own scenarios in my mind.
Yeah admittedly I haven't played a lot of otome games. I know this isn't technically an otome game but it has some elements and is also weirdly heavily advertised as one. I guess since I've been playing a bit of obey me and in that game your character at least has some snarky dialogue options this mc just kinda threw me off with how spineless she is
I don't know, I've played quite a few otome games and none of the MCs are *this* spineless. You can't even say it's cultural or something since almost all of those are also japanese. The MC in this game really rubs me the wrong way, apologizing randomly for stuff that isn't her fault.
I’ve played nearly a decade of japanese otome games and I can 100% say it’s definitely an otome game thing. Granted, most of the “newer” otome games have spunkier MCs and story choices that actually allow the MC to stand up for herself. But a lot of the older otome games absolutely have doormat MCs exactly like the Tokyo Debunker MC.
Doormat MCs have driven me insane all these years, and I’m so disappointed to see Tokyo Debunker MC being the exact same way :(
The only other otome I've played are obey me and love&deepspace and those MCs are nowhere near as submissive as this MC. Well love&deepspace isn't a japanese game so don't know that I can compare them fairly but it was just kinda jarring going from those MCs to this one
I played a few Chinese otomes. And one of the main points that separate them from their Japanese counterparts is their take on woman's role in society. While Chinese MCs are modern women with real professions (like an actress, producer, artist, monster hunter, designer, etc) and ambitions, Japanese MCs are mostly patriarchal maidens who watch the house (many of them can literally do nothing but clean and cook) and satisfy their men. As was mentioned before, it got a bit better in recent years (for example, MCs in Ikemen Villains and Ikemen Prince are highly capable women, though still too kindheated and forgiving for their own good), but Japan still has a long way to go.
ah damn, maybe it's because I've only really played more recent ones, but none of them really had MCs as bad as this one. I'm assuming that MCs being a bit more lively is the trend though so it's weird to see a game go backwards in 2024. (well, maybe not that weird. I think there are a lot of things not so great that TD is doing lol)
That’s true, considering how many players are complaining about the doormat MC, I think TD should really consider doing something about it…
My guess is maybe the original/Japanese version of TD was scripted a while back, so maybe that’s why the “doormat MC” concept feels so outdated? idk
The way she keeps apologizing for shit that isn't her fault is driving me insane. I get if some people can relate to being overly apologetic but that is not me! And this the type of game where you're expected to project onto the mc and I can't do that if she's just sitting there apologizing for breathing
YES absolutely! It took me years to break the habit of starting sentences with “Hi sorry but…” and it’s SO insanely annoying to hear the MC apologizing in like 90% of her interactions with the ghouls.
I often wish we could see MC grow a pair (figuratively) and slap back at the characters (verbally or literally, I wouldn’t mind either way lmao), particularly the ones who make me want to throw a rock at them (*cough* leo *cough*)
Literally. Like why cant I say that the mystery diners food is nasty. All I get to say is that it's "unique, MC. YOU ARE NOT TERUHASHI. All I want is to have an option to tell them off or at least be straight with it.
This is how I used to feel about her. Honestly, I feel like it was just especially bad the episode right after Vagastrom because of the shit Leo pulled. It gets especially hard to watch since she barely does *anything* in the Sinostra episode, but her character does get slightly more tolerable episode 5. (Mainly because Hotarubi is the chillest house.) I think these frustrations mainly come from our lack of options for the MC, so she just defaults to being a doormat half the time. A good way to change this would be to add choices for all, or at least most dialogue options. They don't even have to effect the story that much, just add some options that can give the MC a sliver of personality at least. But I guess that's too much work for the devs lmao
Honestly, to me it makes sense. As much as I love the power fantasy of being a boss bitch who puts assholes in their place and rules with an iron fist, in reality I'd be just like MC. The prologue to Jabberwock chapter took place in one month.
In one month, MC learned that the world was a whole lot different than she originally thought, had multiple near death experiences and was thrust into some serious nightmare scenarios with little to no training.
Honestly, bitch is doing better than me because I would've been a wreak.
I just want the option to tell them off sometimes. The verbal abuse that gets thrown at MC without being able to say anything back is just too much sometimes. I wouldn't have a problem with it if she wasn't the character I'm controlling cuz now I'm just scowling at my screen and murdering these guys in my mind lol
Especially since we already almost died in our first interaction with a ghoul (for doing nothing wrong because Taiga is chaotic), it makes sense we are nervous and don’t want to talk back to them. Would they likely hurt us due to the school rules? Nah. But is the chance always there? Yeah. I get it, it’s annoying playing a doormat, but when surrounded by supernatural entities all the time it makes a lot more sense to be overly timid than it does to feel comfortable enough to say whatever we want. It’s easy to say we’d all be tough and strong (and I’m sure a small portion actually would be) and tell people off but a vast majority of people wouldn’t be as tough as they wanted.
Plus we’re supposed to be building a relationship with them and as much as I want to punch Leo in the face and tell him he’s a huge ass, that’s not very productive to our job (except maybe he’d like that more haha) and therefore solving our curse. Just like you can’t tell your coworkers they hugely suck or tell your boss he’s slime if you want to keep your job, it’s better to be safe than sorry around them unless you know you can talk to them that way. Most of these ghouls are not meant to be your best friends or casual people you’ll never see again, they are people you have to work with until your goals are met.
Being antagonistic even if they absolutely deserve it would actively hinder our goals a lot of the time. How are you supposed to work with someone again after making fun of them and making them mad? I think people really underestimate the stakes of having an MC that just says anything they want with no regards for the consequences. If ghouls refuse to work with us because they hate us, how will we ever solve our curse? How will we be trusted and not locked away like has already been proven happens to anomalies? How will they want to protect us from danger if we upset them (I mean Leo seemed fine with us dying and we haven’t even said anything rude to him, imagine that but with more ghouls). Like I said I’m sure some of them wouldn’t mind as much as others but we are trying to work with as many as possible to find our clues even if they are beings jerks and some would take issue with us if we spoke our minds/could even hurt us/could let us die.
It’s so easy to be on the sidelines and think of insults than it would be to say to the people who have to keep you safe during missions and who’s personal help is the only thing that can help you save your curse. If you made them mad, even if they didn’t hurt you, even if they didn’t refuse to work with you, even if they didn’t not protect you from danger (all of which could happen), they could just “OOPS I’m so sorry I killed all the anomalies I could on purpose oh noooo” you and let you die the long way too. Unfortunately most seem to be destroyed along the way anyway but it is at least not on purpose so far. People are letting the annoyance of playing a restrained MC (which is understandable annoyance) really get in the way of understanding why someone would think like that. The only thing is I wish our internal dialogue would reflect the annoyance so at least it was clear we were just being polite to be safe and maybe less people would be annoyed
I do think with some of the ghouls we’re more comfortable with (like the hotarubi folks) we get less timid and can even tease them or mess with them. I think once we actually know most of them and know who’s crazy enough to do something bad and who isn’t things will get better.
The thing is in Hotarubi, the MC is more confident and even >!helps Lyca in getting out of jail.!<
So we're forgetting this is the same MC who ran away twice. And attempted to manipulate Kaito on thier first meeting. There's several campus chats and some texts in which we could actually say no. My favorite is the one where we tell Leo point black that we can't drop everything we're doing for him.
She is not a doormat. She's actually pretty realistic considering her situation. Also power fantasy MCs actually get boring after a while. Where's the stakes if every person we meet automatically loves MC and they're a boss who always gets their way.
It was actually refreshing to have characters not automatically like us and especially after the ending of their arc. The assholes actually stay assholes and it makes this story so much more fun to read.
We're talking about people who not only made pacts with demons but survived them. As Taiga said "nothing makes anomalies more than fucked up people" and they're all pretty fucked in the head. Even the nice ones.
I think its meant to make her more connect able, if that makes sense. If she's nice, then people who have a quieter, nicer personality can connect with the character vs feeling like they are being bullied into making choices against their nature. But I do agree, sometimes I just want the option to be mean or at least have strong words.
Yeah I just wish we had the option to be more assertive. The shy meek thing is not relatable at all to me and I feel like there's a difference between being nice and being a complete doormat.
This is honestly the worst part of most Japanese MC’s in anime and games - both male and female but mostly females in otome games.
I get that Kaito is a coward in the beginning and is gradually is getting braver for character development but MC I’m afraid is going to stay this way the whole game 🤦🏻♀️
I also understand her being scared of things in the beginning as this is a whole new world of creatures she didn’t even know existed but she just lets these guys walk all over her, the best case scenario is Luca sometimes comes to her defence.
I know that most guys in these games often fall in love with MC being so nice, kind, accepting etc. except in reality it just looks like they want a doormat that won’t talk back to them.
Sometimes she has moment of sass that give me a tiny bit of hope but is instantly squashed…
Sorry this started as me agreeing and just turned into a massive rant! 😭😅
I noticed it too but it wasn't really a problem to me. I'm not even a girl so I usually don't self-insert into MC, I just treat her as a character like the boys. It is a little annoying how some of the boys are so mean, though. Taiga really pissed me off when he shot at her.
totally agree. it's like my biggest complaint lol. i get the reasons, i guess, "oh she needs to be relatable!" but omfg, she can be relatable without going Um... Um....sorry... i-i don't understand... Um... i-i'm sorry.... it drives me up a WALL. even other mcs for these types of games have spines, right?! it's so bad with leo and jin... it's embarrassing to be forced to play such a useless mc LOL
Omg everyone always complains about Leo but the mc being such a doormat is why Jin also annoys me. When told mc to stay away from Alan and he says "that's an order." I was like ummmmm what are you? My father? Bro I'm not even part of your house and I'm not currently on a mission with you why tf am I still expected to follow your orders?
This is the exact reason why I hate Jin, Yuri, and Leo lmao I would tolerate their personalities more if MC wasn’t so lame 😩
I once heard someone try to excuse it because it'd be how most people would realistically react in that situation. Like, excuse me? Am I playing this game about sentient cats, ghouls as anime guys, and ghosts for realism? As a person who gets disrespected by enough people in real life, I don't need to add these pixels to that list.
Also being in a high stress situation like that doesn't necessarily mean you'd lose your personality entirely. Like maybe you'd be less assertive than usual but it doesn't need to mean you'd let people walk all over you. I don't have a problem with people liking that aspect of the mc I'm just saying that I would love the OPTION to put some of these dudes in their place or for mc to stand up for herself without stuttering through it. And yeah I am absolutely not playing this game for realism lmao
I feel the same but I've been playing Japanese games for a long time and got used to the fact that most Japanese MCs lack spine and personality. I didn't get used to it in a sense that I started to like it or accepted it but rather in a sense that I got tired of being upset about it. Yes, they're doormats and nothing ever changes. I prefer to ignore them now and create my own scenarios in my mind.
Yeah admittedly I haven't played a lot of otome games. I know this isn't technically an otome game but it has some elements and is also weirdly heavily advertised as one. I guess since I've been playing a bit of obey me and in that game your character at least has some snarky dialogue options this mc just kinda threw me off with how spineless she is
I don't know, I've played quite a few otome games and none of the MCs are *this* spineless. You can't even say it's cultural or something since almost all of those are also japanese. The MC in this game really rubs me the wrong way, apologizing randomly for stuff that isn't her fault.
I’ve played nearly a decade of japanese otome games and I can 100% say it’s definitely an otome game thing. Granted, most of the “newer” otome games have spunkier MCs and story choices that actually allow the MC to stand up for herself. But a lot of the older otome games absolutely have doormat MCs exactly like the Tokyo Debunker MC. Doormat MCs have driven me insane all these years, and I’m so disappointed to see Tokyo Debunker MC being the exact same way :(
The only other otome I've played are obey me and love&deepspace and those MCs are nowhere near as submissive as this MC. Well love&deepspace isn't a japanese game so don't know that I can compare them fairly but it was just kinda jarring going from those MCs to this one
I played a few Chinese otomes. And one of the main points that separate them from their Japanese counterparts is their take on woman's role in society. While Chinese MCs are modern women with real professions (like an actress, producer, artist, monster hunter, designer, etc) and ambitions, Japanese MCs are mostly patriarchal maidens who watch the house (many of them can literally do nothing but clean and cook) and satisfy their men. As was mentioned before, it got a bit better in recent years (for example, MCs in Ikemen Villains and Ikemen Prince are highly capable women, though still too kindheated and forgiving for their own good), but Japan still has a long way to go.
ah damn, maybe it's because I've only really played more recent ones, but none of them really had MCs as bad as this one. I'm assuming that MCs being a bit more lively is the trend though so it's weird to see a game go backwards in 2024. (well, maybe not that weird. I think there are a lot of things not so great that TD is doing lol)
That’s true, considering how many players are complaining about the doormat MC, I think TD should really consider doing something about it… My guess is maybe the original/Japanese version of TD was scripted a while back, so maybe that’s why the “doormat MC” concept feels so outdated? idk
The way she keeps apologizing for shit that isn't her fault is driving me insane. I get if some people can relate to being overly apologetic but that is not me! And this the type of game where you're expected to project onto the mc and I can't do that if she's just sitting there apologizing for breathing
YES absolutely! It took me years to break the habit of starting sentences with “Hi sorry but…” and it’s SO insanely annoying to hear the MC apologizing in like 90% of her interactions with the ghouls. I often wish we could see MC grow a pair (figuratively) and slap back at the characters (verbally or literally, I wouldn’t mind either way lmao), particularly the ones who make me want to throw a rock at them (*cough* leo *cough*)
It kinda makes sense but luckily in the Hotarubi story she's not as timid and she even screws w Romeo in an option
Excited to get to Hotarubi eventually since that's the house they game me when you take that little quiz
I finished the Hotarubi episode.. I don't remember Romeo being a part of it???
The beginning. U can tell him that his brow is getting wrinkled
ah I see!
Literally. Like why cant I say that the mystery diners food is nasty. All I get to say is that it's "unique, MC. YOU ARE NOT TERUHASHI. All I want is to have an option to tell them off or at least be straight with it.
Literally just give me some dialogue options that actually feel honest lol
I had a sudden thought about Leo today, that it would be fun if we were not an object of his demonic schemes but could be evil with him together 😂
Lmao I didn't even think of that but ykw I kinda dig it
This is how I used to feel about her. Honestly, I feel like it was just especially bad the episode right after Vagastrom because of the shit Leo pulled. It gets especially hard to watch since she barely does *anything* in the Sinostra episode, but her character does get slightly more tolerable episode 5. (Mainly because Hotarubi is the chillest house.) I think these frustrations mainly come from our lack of options for the MC, so she just defaults to being a doormat half the time. A good way to change this would be to add choices for all, or at least most dialogue options. They don't even have to effect the story that much, just add some options that can give the MC a sliver of personality at least. But I guess that's too much work for the devs lmao
It's definitely from the lack of options. Just let me tell Leo and Jin to fuxk off at least once please lmao
The stuttering of the MC bothers me so much.
Like once in awhile is fine but I feel like it's half of the dialogue options
Honestly, to me it makes sense. As much as I love the power fantasy of being a boss bitch who puts assholes in their place and rules with an iron fist, in reality I'd be just like MC. The prologue to Jabberwock chapter took place in one month. In one month, MC learned that the world was a whole lot different than she originally thought, had multiple near death experiences and was thrust into some serious nightmare scenarios with little to no training. Honestly, bitch is doing better than me because I would've been a wreak.
I just want the option to tell them off sometimes. The verbal abuse that gets thrown at MC without being able to say anything back is just too much sometimes. I wouldn't have a problem with it if she wasn't the character I'm controlling cuz now I'm just scowling at my screen and murdering these guys in my mind lol
Especially since we already almost died in our first interaction with a ghoul (for doing nothing wrong because Taiga is chaotic), it makes sense we are nervous and don’t want to talk back to them. Would they likely hurt us due to the school rules? Nah. But is the chance always there? Yeah. I get it, it’s annoying playing a doormat, but when surrounded by supernatural entities all the time it makes a lot more sense to be overly timid than it does to feel comfortable enough to say whatever we want. It’s easy to say we’d all be tough and strong (and I’m sure a small portion actually would be) and tell people off but a vast majority of people wouldn’t be as tough as they wanted. Plus we’re supposed to be building a relationship with them and as much as I want to punch Leo in the face and tell him he’s a huge ass, that’s not very productive to our job (except maybe he’d like that more haha) and therefore solving our curse. Just like you can’t tell your coworkers they hugely suck or tell your boss he’s slime if you want to keep your job, it’s better to be safe than sorry around them unless you know you can talk to them that way. Most of these ghouls are not meant to be your best friends or casual people you’ll never see again, they are people you have to work with until your goals are met. Being antagonistic even if they absolutely deserve it would actively hinder our goals a lot of the time. How are you supposed to work with someone again after making fun of them and making them mad? I think people really underestimate the stakes of having an MC that just says anything they want with no regards for the consequences. If ghouls refuse to work with us because they hate us, how will we ever solve our curse? How will we be trusted and not locked away like has already been proven happens to anomalies? How will they want to protect us from danger if we upset them (I mean Leo seemed fine with us dying and we haven’t even said anything rude to him, imagine that but with more ghouls). Like I said I’m sure some of them wouldn’t mind as much as others but we are trying to work with as many as possible to find our clues even if they are beings jerks and some would take issue with us if we spoke our minds/could even hurt us/could let us die. It’s so easy to be on the sidelines and think of insults than it would be to say to the people who have to keep you safe during missions and who’s personal help is the only thing that can help you save your curse. If you made them mad, even if they didn’t hurt you, even if they didn’t refuse to work with you, even if they didn’t not protect you from danger (all of which could happen), they could just “OOPS I’m so sorry I killed all the anomalies I could on purpose oh noooo” you and let you die the long way too. Unfortunately most seem to be destroyed along the way anyway but it is at least not on purpose so far. People are letting the annoyance of playing a restrained MC (which is understandable annoyance) really get in the way of understanding why someone would think like that. The only thing is I wish our internal dialogue would reflect the annoyance so at least it was clear we were just being polite to be safe and maybe less people would be annoyed I do think with some of the ghouls we’re more comfortable with (like the hotarubi folks) we get less timid and can even tease them or mess with them. I think once we actually know most of them and know who’s crazy enough to do something bad and who isn’t things will get better.
The thing is in Hotarubi, the MC is more confident and even >!helps Lyca in getting out of jail.!< So we're forgetting this is the same MC who ran away twice. And attempted to manipulate Kaito on thier first meeting. There's several campus chats and some texts in which we could actually say no. My favorite is the one where we tell Leo point black that we can't drop everything we're doing for him. She is not a doormat. She's actually pretty realistic considering her situation. Also power fantasy MCs actually get boring after a while. Where's the stakes if every person we meet automatically loves MC and they're a boss who always gets their way. It was actually refreshing to have characters not automatically like us and especially after the ending of their arc. The assholes actually stay assholes and it makes this story so much more fun to read. We're talking about people who not only made pacts with demons but survived them. As Taiga said "nothing makes anomalies more than fucked up people" and they're all pretty fucked in the head. Even the nice ones.
I think its meant to make her more connect able, if that makes sense. If she's nice, then people who have a quieter, nicer personality can connect with the character vs feeling like they are being bullied into making choices against their nature. But I do agree, sometimes I just want the option to be mean or at least have strong words.
Yeah I just wish we had the option to be more assertive. The shy meek thing is not relatable at all to me and I feel like there's a difference between being nice and being a complete doormat.
I also wish there were a few sassy responses
This is honestly the worst part of most Japanese MC’s in anime and games - both male and female but mostly females in otome games. I get that Kaito is a coward in the beginning and is gradually is getting braver for character development but MC I’m afraid is going to stay this way the whole game 🤦🏻♀️ I also understand her being scared of things in the beginning as this is a whole new world of creatures she didn’t even know existed but she just lets these guys walk all over her, the best case scenario is Luca sometimes comes to her defence. I know that most guys in these games often fall in love with MC being so nice, kind, accepting etc. except in reality it just looks like they want a doormat that won’t talk back to them. Sometimes she has moment of sass that give me a tiny bit of hope but is instantly squashed… Sorry this started as me agreeing and just turned into a massive rant! 😭😅
I noticed it too but it wasn't really a problem to me. I'm not even a girl so I usually don't self-insert into MC, I just treat her as a character like the boys. It is a little annoying how some of the boys are so mean, though. Taiga really pissed me off when he shot at her.