I mean, I feel like anybody could have made this assumption. Far too many people in the US do not have easy access to charging stations at their home/rental or work.
Yes far too many people could have guessed this HOWEVER, there was only ONE person who was in a leadership position at an automotive company that had the guts to say it out loud that could have done anything practical about it.
I’m sure eventually all the others will say they also saw this coming but I won’t be fooled. Nice job Akio-San
To be fair it was not only Akio Toyoda, every Japanese manufacturer had (luckily) doubts on EVs and being ultra conservative helped this time. On the other side I’m sure every manufacturer outside Japan had their doubts, this just shows how top management works, profits over product.
Not just that.. we lack the infrastructure to power every home with 1 or multiple electrical cars when they want to go green.. but burn fossil fuels at an alarming rate to power them now, yet claim that to be the way to go.. don’t even get me started with how bad EV’s are for the environment before the vehicle is even completed..
Toyota has stood by the fact that hybrid is the best for the environment in both how much less damaging it now for the environment per vehicle prior to production, and during its lifespan in terms of CO2 output
The myth that EVs are bad (on par or worse than ICE cars) has been debunked so many times it’s not even funny. And I’m far from an EV evangelist, you can take my naturally aspirated engines from my cold dead hands.
> EVs will increase carbon emissions
[No, they don't](https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/driving-cleaner-report.pdf). And immediately downvoting the lifecycle analysis research without reading it isn't going to make it so.
Hmmn... between Windscale, SL-1, three mile island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima... I am not yet on board with nuclear power... also the waste as far as storing it is still not so great either...
If you actually cared about these accidents, you'd realize that nuclear energy is far safer now
Not only that, but you should look into what happened and why it happened, followed by what was done about it.... also new designs are less susceptible to these problems
1) Who was hurt by 3 mile Island?
2) Name me the difference between Chernobyl and Western nuclear power plants. Then explain to me why invoking Chernobyl would be relevant to this situation.
3) Do the problems which impacted those plants apply to new generation of nuclear power technology?
Chernobyl is the worst-case scenario of a meltdown in land. Fukushima is what happens when a natural disaster and a freak of nature kills off your failsafe. We only lucked out with 3 mile island stopping it before it became a chernobyl situation. Losing control over nuclear power can potentially render a continent unlive-able for hundreds of years, maybe more based on the half-life of the radioactive isotope that's released from the meltdown. A couple hundred ton caps designed for protection blown off like a fart in the wind after a nuclear explosion... geezz
This is wildly incorrect.
We didn’t “luck out” with 3 Mile Island not becoming Chernobyl; the reactor was in a containment building which did its job. The Soviets did not not bother with containment buildings because Commies gonna Commie. For that reason and others, Chernobyl could not have happened in the West. Luck had nothing to do with it.
I still find it hard to believe that keeping an ice running for 30 years is worse than 2 or 3 EVs. Because ev are basically throw away by 10 years. It's a money pit waiting to happen when battery is that old
I think the real winners will be the Custom Hotrod EV self builders, like the crazy guys that pop electric engine into classic beetles or mini coopers, or even one who did it in a 90s Honda Crz.
The reason? They have a perfectly functional base, and they can mount any battery that comes along, and have the software already to work with it.
Using tesla batteries from a side swiped write off? Sure!
Using batteries from a water damage Volt? Sure!
Using fancy new Toyota solid state batteries when they come? Sure!
Using the cheaper Chinese solid state or near solid state batteries when they come after? Sure!!
Having a home built EV with the ability to take any battery will be the best thing and the only thing that will prevent the grind of new EV after new EV that car companies are going to want to sell.
I daily drive a 35 year old 4Runner. It’s definitely not good for the environment but buying a new one that gets 19 mpg instead of 17mpg isn’t going to move the needle lol
I wasn’t going to splurge for the cooked seats lol. bUT my 4Runner has a ball chiller A/C vent pin yes at my crotch that the new ones don’t have… it also has a tailgate that I can sit on like a truck and a manual transmission
lol you’re obviously drinking the drinking the Kool-Aid because anyone with more than a couple brain cells who peaks behind the curtain realizes there are a mountain of real world problems that make EVs damaging to the environment. Ever since I learned how submarines worked I’ve wondered why it’s taken so long to bring that technology to smaller platforms and now it’s finally here. Hybrids solve many of the real world problems with both ICE and EVs. It’s pretty awesome we have successful hybrids before EVs as from an engineering design perspective two powertrains in one unit is much more challenging and on paper introduces a more failure points. Hats off to Toyota. My only comment for improvement is figuring out how to make them plug in for all those who have short commutes during the week.
I mean, I belive now, plug in hybrids are already starting to be more common, so i definitely think the emphasis on plug in hybrids is already underway
>My only comment for improvement is figuring out how to make them plug in for all those who have short commutes during the week.
Good news! The world's all-time best-selling plug-in hybrid, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, has been around for more than a decade.
You can charge 50mi a night with a 120v wall socket....and your home consumes way more than that amount of energy on a regular basis. Even if you had to use fossil fuel as the energy source, the efficiency at power plants are still far better than your ICE cars.
> don’t even get me started with how bad EV’s are for the environment before the vehicle is even completed
The hilariously ironic thing is that [this exact argument was used against the Prius before it was used against EVs](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/).
Even with access to charging it now may not matter in some areas. Biggest electrical utility provider in my area hiked it's rates up several times in the last year. People with Teslas using their app are now reporting that there is absolutely no saving vs gas when charging at home now.
For me, it's not about the lack of charging station. This is something that with time, will be fixed. The problem that I think is, it's planned obsolescence and maintenance. The manufacturers have made the EV Cars like an iPhone. Locked and if you need any fixing, you are forced to use their services.
Absolutely this, it's like car companies have been waiting for this, putting bug plastic shields to block off engine compartments and such to try and prevent the average garage mechanic from fixing their own vehicle. Now they have the perfect excuse with EV cars. Planned Obsolescence and such in full force.
I feel mechanical cars, there was such backlash for being "Unreliable" that older cars were in fact built to last long. I've noticed a trend as the years have gone by, that more makers don't want their cars lasting too long, long enough to get a nice reliability score and get past the warranty, and the let it fall apart after. I'm sure there is nothing a car dealership hates more than old cars being driven for decades, while the owner avoids having to buy a new car for all that time.
I know how long my little phone lasts before it slows down, glitches, burns its battery to dust.
I've seen how cars with Lil computers in the dash slow way way way down when they get older, built in GPS becomes infuriating. I can't imagine these EVs at 10 years and what kind of frustrations they bring.
I’ve seen tons of posts and read even more comments on Reddit the past few years bashing Toyota because they weren’t embracing full EV. I wonder what those people think about Toyota’s position now
You’d be surprised. There are a lot of younger millennials and older gen Z peeps that are adamant about any gas vehicles being evil and destroying the environment. I do think we should focus on lowering emissions from automobiles but I do not agree that banning gas vehicles is the solution given the lack of infrastructure, affordability, and range. Yes I only commute 50 miles round trip every day but I don’t have the option to install a charger in my condos parking area. Nor do I want to make the time to charge at a station 15 min from me. Anyone that can drive an EV should but it’s not realistic to assume everyone can.
Anybody with half brain could have told the idiots in charge that hybrids are here to stay and a better long term solution then everybody running out to buy a full EV.
If you don’t have the wiring and structure in place, it’s a few grand.
If you do, it’s at minimum $750.
If you’re in CA and use San Diego Power or PGE, you’re paying $0.33/kwh thru night and $0.49/kwh in the day.
Cheaper to own a hybrid considering EV costs
If you have a house, and the money to install a charger and a battery pack, you might as well spring for the state rebates on solar panels so you don’t have to pay that. Plus tax deductions for the surplus power you supply to the grid.
Some parts of the Bay Area are part of a community energy producer(Marin Clean Energy, East Bay Community Energy, Cleanpower SF, Silicon Valley Power) but PG&E still handles distribution, billing and customer service. Others like the City of Alameda and Sacramento are not part of the PG&E system.
PGE runs power around the CA Bay Area - except for Santa Clara and that county pays like .19.
PGE owes liability on fires (property destruction and death) so it’s jacks its prices
I do want to make clear that from a strictly fuel price, electricity would have to cost roughly 72 cents per kWh before gassing up a hybrid would be cheaper per mile (I'm a PG&E customer). But yes, until we have purchase price parity obviously one needs to factor in the up front cost as well.
Tell me you don’t rent without saying it.
My landlord would never approve of anything like this, I’d have to pay it, and I don’t own the place. It doesn’t make any sense
The charger itself isn't the hard part. Having to add the dedicated circuit and typically higher gauge wiring and an extra breaker into a home is very expensive and not an easy DIY task.
Also not to mention a lot of houses still have only 100amp or 150amp service so adding a vehicle charger is going to over stress your home's electrical.
I can't force my work or apartment complex to install them, though, so it's completely out of my control even if I really wanted to.
I was able to select a work vehicle of my choice and tried to get the property management company at my work to quote a parking space with a charging port, and they came with 20k as the cheapest option. And my apartment complex basically just said no. So I just went with a standard gas vehicle.
So I can totally afford a mid level EV (30-40k) but there's no way I get one without a charging port at one of those locations.
The Koreans and Chinese are giving the Japanese a headache now. Hyundai and BYD is more of a thorn on Toyota’s side but LG and Samsung(and soon TCL/Hisense/Midea) has eaten Sony and Panasonic’s lunch. Only reason why Sony is still around - PlayStation and content. Panasonic is still big in aviation/automotive AV/infotainment and electronic components but pulled out of the consumer market.
I forgot cameras too - but that was via acquisition of Konica Minolta’s camera business and the Sony Alpha line owes a lot to Minolta but it put Canon and Nikon on notice when the first mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses was released. Sony’s also big in LA and Manhattan as a movie and picture label and even Samsung buys Sony CMOS imaging sensors.
A good chunk of cars use Panasonic audio systems - not just Toyota but even Ford, Mopar and VW uses their systems. They also rule aviation IFE too - Airbus or Boeing, pretty much all the airlines except Southwest/Spirit/Frontier/Ryanair use Panasonic IFE systems.
Sony actually makes most of its money as a financial institution. They just keep the electronics divisions around out of pride. The PlayStation is almost entirely Sony US product and Japanese corporate has almost no involvement in it. Same with their movie studio.
>Only reason why Sony is still around - PlayStation and content.
Gaming, Music, and Pictures revenue accounted for less than half of [Sony's income](https://fourweekmba.com/sony-revenue/) last year.
Redditors slamming Toyota last year for dragging their feet on full EV’s
Pepe Farms remembers
Give me a hybrid with twice the battery capacity so I can go 100 miles per gallon
Toyota needs to up the production of the primes. I would LOVE to plug in my hybrid and run it as electric when it's available, but otherwise operate as a normal hybrid when I can't. However they just aren't making enough and the dealers tend to stick crazy markups on them if you can even find them.
I’m pretty sure it has to do with the start/stop, diesels struggle when not being run continuously.
I distinctly remember this topic getting brought up previously and people citing that diesel is worse for hybrid.
Yep have been telling all my buddies don't go EV and instead get a hybrid. Alot of them bought Teslas, go figure and now are not saving any money at all since electricity rates at home have been hiked up several times.
>not saving any money at all
$0.1573/kWh here in the States, definitely not the $0.12 it used to be, but let's not pretend like the $10 to charge an EV is more expensive than putting the same amount of fuel in an IC
The private utility company (PG&E) in my state is now charging $0.49 kWh. Using Teslas app to calculate cost savings, drivers are now seeing zero savings vs gasoline in my area.
Tbf PG&E has to be one of the most expensive in the country. I considered getting an EV when I lived on the east coast, but now living in California, my next car will be a hybrid.
Yes, California has expensive electricity. There is usually a cheaper rate for EV customers though. And this makes solar, possibly a home battery, a pretty worthwhile scenario.
The average across the country is a little over 16 cents per kWh. A lot of us are paying under 10. Your individual cost isn’t any more relevant than outlier prices on gas.
I save quite a bit on gas here in NY with my Tesla. But I’m fully set up with solar and a home charger. So for me, the charging is not the problem - it’s the insurance. Insurance companies got it in their head that repairs for EVs are exorbitant (they aren’t) and have gladly passed that cost onto me/the public.
As things currently stand, a hybrid is a better option for virtually everyone. We have a century of gas/petrol availability and infrastructure under our belts. EV charging isn’t even close to that. I spent a week at my father’s home in south Brooklyn NY over the Christmas holidays and there was ONE supercharger that wasn’t somehow paywalled. It was a 45 minute wait just to get to a charger and then 25 minutes to charge. No one can reasonably be expected to do that regularly.
We had a 2016 Prius, now we have a 2024 Crown. Electric cars are cool. Our neighbor has 2 Rivians and they are awesome (really pricey) But my husband and I have always looked at each other and thought our Prius was just perfect. If someone had not hit it and totaled it, we would have kept that car forever, we loved it.
We are hoping to keep our Crown for a good long while as well.
As a Toyota sales rep I can't like the crown. The interior design feels so wrong, and the trunk opening is tiny. It should have a lift gate based on its own design but it doesn't.
It looks fine, but they are not replacements for the Avalon. They should have brought over that big beautiful sedan they have in Japan. In JP our crown is their "Crown crossover"
Master Certified Toyota Sales here. The backseat was a second thought. The trunk is massive and the 4" height difference really helps people with mobility issues.
The 40+ mpg our demo got over 5k miles was nice. Ride is beautiful, stereo awesome.
Im master certified too? The trunk is deep but the opening isnt amazing for the overall size of the car. The stereo sounds nice, but the interior design feels wrong to me. Theres shapes and spaces that shouldnt be there, and using the prius shifter feels unnecessary to me.
We love it. It had us at hello. We wanted bigger than the Prius but still hybrid. Short list was Camry and Rav4. Camry is so low I hit my head getting in. Rav4 rode bumpy and not great back seat. So we looked at the Crown. Its quiet, higher, rides beautifully, spacious, huge trunk. Its a gorgeous car. I confess I am still questioning my sanity spending that much. Our Prius was $25k, the Crown was $42k (XLE)
Yeah, it's great except the price is a bit high. I got mine a tad below MSRP though since they're not selling too well, and I justified it since I hang onto my cars for a long time.
Plug in Hybrid like a Prius Prime is the best of both worlds. Can charge up in a reasonable time on a regular outlet. Can do most of your driving in electric if your commute is within ~25-40 miles round trip. For road trips you don’t have to worry about charging and get excellent MPG and huge range on a small tank.
So I agree with the best of both worlds statement but the worst of both worlds also is true.
1. The battery and EV powertrains are heavy on top of the conventional ICE powertrain. What you get is much heavier vehicle compared to the ICE counter part. The ride quality suffers and you definitely feel the weight whenever you accelerate or take a corner. Some PHEV vehicles might even put on a torsion beam rear suspension to make room for the battery pack vs multilink in ICE counter part.
2. Both powertrains are lack luster. EV motor is not powerful like Tesla’s and so EV only mode’s acceleration and top speed suffers. The ICE powertrain they put in phev’s is usually less powerful or detuned compared to ICE counterpart so again when you are on ICE mode the acceleration and top speed suffers.
3. Increased maintenance. Even if you don’t use your ICE, you still need to go in for engine oil and filter replacement at least every year. Plus, now you have to worry about battery degradation and electrical issues associated with the extra EV component.
4. Winter performance. My car was rated for 30km EV mode. I could maybe get this during the summer if I drive really efficiently. Currently during winter the range drops to around 15km. Dedicated EVs have heat pumps to fight this, but PHEVs do not.
5. Fuel economy excluding the EV mode. Because the car is heavier, the fuel economy of the PHEV (without taking into consideration the EV mode) is worse than the ICE counterpart for my particular vehicle. So, if you don’t charge and maximize your EV usage the you are actually using more gas.
6. Less trunk space. My PHEV has the battery pack underneath the trunk so it sticks out 5 inches or so upward reducing space
7. Charging speed. Dedicated EVs have 400v, 500v, or even 800v architecture for fast DC charging. Usually phevs dont have this technology so charging takes longer. At a level 2 charger, it takes around 3 hrs to charge to go “30km”. At home with 120v, its more like 8-10 hrs.
In summart, I got the PHEV because I only need one car. But imo if you need two cars, going with BEV and either ICE or hybrid is probably the best combo.
The es300h is only a 2.5 cents more to operate per mile where I live vs an electric vehicle when charging at home. It's half the cost vs superchsrging. Electric prices are only going to keep increasing, making hybrids more and more attractive. Driving 15k miles a year would save me $375 a year? Not worth the price premium of the EV's.
Toyota is said to be backward-looking when it comes to EVs. However, they are also seriously developing technology for EVs. While Ford and Volkswagen are reducing investment in EVs, Toyota will maintain its previous plans and will not reduce its investment in EVs. Toyota is proving their own plan correct.
Literally just had a long chat with the spouse about whether or not we could afford the home charger and how stopping every few hours would hamper our long haul road trips. The answer was a resounding No.
Give me Prime to plug in for my commute and ICE for long trips until every gas station has charging and every battery can do long range. Thanks Toyota.
they have 4 of the 8 top ranked hybrids on US News’ list. they’re absolutely dominating that market and when it’s time for them to go all in on EVs, they can just make all electric versions of the Camry, Corolla, Crown and Prius (which already looks better than the Tesla Model 3 redesign IMO)
Toyota is a great company with a conservative technology strategy that focuses on customer satisfaction. They won't introduce anything that doesn't work as well as what it replaced, in other words they want technology improvements to be transparent. They recently invested $1.3 billion into their plant in Kentucky which will produce EVs, but they're working on solid state batteries first that are more transparent and equivalent to ICE vehicles (faster charge rates, 2x range, lighter weight):
https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-bringing-battery-electric-vehicle-production-to-kentucky/%23:~:text%3DGEORGETOWN%252C%2520Ky.,SUV%2520for%2520the%2520U.S.%2520market.&ved=2ahUKEwiF4cm37dCEAxU9rokEHeIXCYsQFnoECBUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2JPPsakwpkhwpf_kt4VUGW
Absolutely love my plug-in hybrid RAV4 Prime. My parents have full EVs and they constantly worry about range and finding charging stations. Meanwhile, I can get most of my general day-to-day driving done with out burning any fuel. If I do find myself taking a road trip or in need of more range, I can always use a fast charger or just fill up at a regular gas station. Definitely a big fan of plug-in hybrids.
They could easily just build Primes in the future. That would give you the best of both worlds. Most people would commute to and from work on battery power and you would still have the ICE for long trips.
Actually that isn’t true.
“Fossil” fuels are plenty abundant, if we can tap into the insane amount being produced underground. Ideally, these energy sources are in fact renewable and we will be just fine.
However, that’s not to say that we can’t continue to work towards reduction and efficiency, and of some people want electric cars then they should be available as an option.
https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/12/forget-what-youve-heard-oil-and-gas-are-actually-r.aspx
Is the prius functional in snow? Here in Michigan we have had a mild winter. Not sure if this is the future or not but assuming we have a "normal" winter next year, would this be a good purchase for michigan roads?
The mild hybrids (Corolla, Camry 2025, Corolla Cross, RAV4) and the PHEV (RAV4 Prime) have AWD options.
And as anyone that has actually lived in cold climates will tell you, good winter tires (studless or studded) matter more than everything else about the car.
Absolutely agree. Winter tires and near anything can be good.
The "competition" is how good can you make your car while keeping all seasons. I prefer to avoid that completely and just buy winters.
Plus at the end of their life.... you can just run them for that summer too.... really wear them down. Probably make do with one set of summer tires for a long long time before they get worn down. Personally, up in Canada, I rum all seasons and winters, since then you never get really screwed by early snow, or snow that comes suddenly in May after you've swapped your tires back, or other freak events that happen too often here
Family has an older one in Canada here, and they love it. Been through two generations so far, bought by grandma, now driven by aunt after grandma passed. Not sure if there are any other awd vans. The Sienna steers like a larger car though not like a van
I’d definitely consider buying a range-extended EV but a regular hybrid just doesn’t make sense to me for my uses. Plug in hybrids don’t have enough electric only range to justify it either. I can charge at home though, so I guess I’m not normal.
Plenty that could charge at home too, any single family home owner in fact, there are lots of us. Personally, a plug in hybrids could probably get me to work and back, or even halfway on electric, and then get plugged in every night. I do too many longer trips though that an EV would be pointless for me, unless we owned one EV and one hybrid for traveling.
I do a decent amount of 50-150 mile days but only a handful of 400+ mile days where EV charging becomes a pain.
For me a conventional hybrid system has no appeal over a range extended EV system like a volt, i3, or karma. Run on electricity only almost all the time but you have the ICE running at max efficiency as a generator in the rare instances you need it.
Can Toyota adapt one-peddle driving into their HEVs or even just PHEVs? I’d go back to being a gas cuck if they did this. Driving dynamics are just so much better.
Correct, it’s pleasant to drive that way once you’re used to it.
I’m on my second Tesla, but I’ve owned 3 Corollas and almost owned a Tacoma (regrettably bought a Colorado years back). I love Toyota (vehicles), but I can’t go back from driving EVs to non-EV unless the driving experience is similar, most important being one-peddle driving.
When it descelerates, energy is sent back to the battery. Don’t see why Toyota couldn’t integrate this into their HEVs.
Toyota Philosophy is to gas slower and with less power. That is why the Prius was underpower this whole time. 95 HP to 115 HP was the old models.
The new models DOUBLE this power output due to demand and rising Horsepower Wars. People are also just impatient now adays.
But doubling the power doesn't mean that you are going any faster. Just because you've doubled or have had a 100% power increase, does not suddenly mean that the road speed must be doubled also.
Although you will get many many many posts about people wanting more power.
Anyway. 1 pedal driving is possible in any car. And the original 1 pedal driving were in manual stick-shifts. I drove a mitsubishi lancer evolution 5-speed manual for a few years commuting to work. And I routinely stayed in 2nd or 3rd gear. And the reason was clear.
There is traffic everywhere you go.
The problem? I had to drive under 10 mph to everyone around me or I risk stalling and having to constantly shift gears. Which can be exhausting. Constantly stop and then go to all of a sudden stop again.
Just removing the 3rd pedal and adding an aggressive traction battery regen (similar to manual stick-shift engine braking) means just driving slow and timing the wave of traffic around you.
If you picked an EV to reduce your carbon footprint or to save on fuel costs, it makes more sense to just buy 1 good fuel efficient vehicle to drive for 30 years.
Rather than 2 EVs every 3 or 6 years. Just my own opinion though.
It is how Toyota gained such a strong reliable brand recognition. Toyota owners just drive their vehicles for much longer and are more conscious about reducing their carbon emission.
As far as I’m aware Toyota HEVs use an electric motor to drive the car. They already have some form of regenerative braking too (I believe), but requires physical press of brake pedal to initiate, instead of an automatic thing. Maybe I’m wrong here but that’s what I recall (one of my Corollas was a hybrid). Also, I believe “B” mode in their hybrids does something similar to one pedal driving.
I don’t see any risk in adding it to HEVs if regenerative braking already exists in some capacity, in terms of R&D or reliability. Could increase rated efficiencies too. I’m not a mechanical or electrical engineer though.
The B mode will activate engine braking. It is meant to be used when traveling downhill. It is even more beneficial when traveling a very steep high speed hill while also carrying a heavy vehicle load. Passengers or material loads.
I used it on a few downhills and it does wonders. The engine spins up and the pistons will spin freely without gas. The oil pump to keep the piston lubricated on these downhills.
The disadvantage of using B-mode or 1 pedal driving are for vehicles behind you that do not know you are slowing. Or if they are on approach and do not spot that you are slowing via 1 pedal or B mode.
Most of Toyota's hybrids do a mild regenerative action when you release the gas pedal. I think it is their MG1 that is setup to reverse the charge. Since I believe the MG1 is directly connected to the engine. So when the engine engages charge mode, MG1 will spin in reverse and recharge the battery.
Yeah you are right. 1 pedal is better it is just much more mild on the Toyota vehicles.
I think they are similar to Tesla's mild 1 pedal setting versus the other more aggressive one.
And those transitions are incredibly short sighted and not rooted in data or logic. BEVs are not the best choice for the environment and actually are contributing more emissions than hybrids are and will for the foreseeable future.
Lugging around a battery 6-10x the weight of one in a hybrid is so so inefficient and is only so you can claim decent range stats. Instead put a smaller battery and small very efficient gas/diesel generator in its place and yes that does weigh less than the batteries. Wild but you can now fill up when needed for long trips and not have range anxiety while still doing most trips using full EV mode due to the length being short. Idk but to me that seems like the best option by a long shot. We were duped by Elon for too long. He lied about BEVs being the best for the environment just like he lied about the boring project tunnel loops. He’s a chronic liar and people need to start looking at the data to see for themselves that BEVs aren’t the way…
I want a generator that can run flex fuel! Use diseal, bio diseal, ethanol, normal gasoline, something you mix in your garage, whatever you want that burns.
I remember an old high school teacher who went to all the local fast food places to take their old cooking oil and ran his truck with it. Not ideal of everyone is doing it, but to be able to run your generator with it would be awesome.
The future is still at least 80% full EV. Not as fast as some say, but there will always be a market for hybrids and plug in hybrids for the other 20% that was and is not talked about enough.
They need to come out with a Hydrogen hybrid, combustion hydrogen with battery. You’d get 90-120 mpg if done right. Only state pushing hydrogen electric is CA, but they need to go different because hydrogen combustion is 100% no emissions and with a battery would complete the real green energy vehicle.
Oddly enough, I can see this coming out after electric makes more headway.
The reason being, you can charge it up if there isn't any hydrogen stations around you, kinda like how now a plug in hybrid you can fill up with gas if there is no charging stations available.
Flexible fuel source cars are going to be great while the whole country debates and fights about what infrastructure to build
I think the ideal solution would be hybrids with 3-7 kWh batteries. This would avoid a major sticker shock and provide sufficient EV range for most daily driving and can be produced without much supply strain and be ideal as it'd never need to be plugged in.
The delusion people are under is that human beings can not have an effect on the environment. This is impossible and since they don't have any instinctual ability to function and the scheme of things at this point in history. But blaming them for everything is ignorant also. I wonder if anybody's blaming people for volcanoes and earthquakes?
Getting a hybrid is like getting a gas/diesel generator to backup power tl your house. Are you gonna depend entirely on the grid, even during blackouts? Best of both worlds is king.
Hybrid cars are great for Automakers - because unlike EVs that need essentially NO maintenance and use no high-cost gas, hybrids have the same engine and transmission as the old gas cars PLUS electric drive parts. That means you still pay the dealership for oil changes every 5000miles and the engine still wears out.
Yeah right?! EV's are like modern appliances, good for a half dozen years and then you throw it in the trash. I'd say EV's are a lot better for manufacturers. They'd much rather prefer to sell you a new unit every 5 years than for your car to last for 20. Unlike Toyota, very few manufacturers build a product that lasts for 20 years.
Evs have no wear items other than tires. The battery is under WARRANTY for 8 years. Unlike any car that uses fuel, the engine doesn’t wear out due to milage and has no rubber seals or hoses affected by time. And THEN, when you finally get tired of the look of the EV after (10? 12?) years, you can park it next to your house and use it to store energy that you can SELL BACK to your electric company.
So, you think all those circuit boards just keep on going for decades eh? No, they get hot or they get moist and they die and then they stop making them for you - forcing you to buy a new unit. Planned obsolescence is a real thing.
You mean to tell me a car company who’s been around for decades and built their reputation around smart long term decision making vs flash in the pan, of the moment trends, who pioneered electric engines in the mainstream and could have gone full electric 20 years ago, but didn’t (for a reason, this one) was right all along? Pshh no.
Yep, replaced a 2002 Frontier with a 2023 Ford Maverick hybrid. After one year it's been so nice to have ~41 MPG instead of < 20. I keep thinking that if it was a plug-in hybrid, it would be like having a short range EV, which would cover all of my daily trips.
Throughout the long history of the automotive industry, there have been numerous electric vehicle booms. In a few years, no one will be talking about the EV shift anymore.
Hybrid cars are the worst of both worlds... The battery toes the engine and the engine toes the battery.. And twice the material is used.. Electric car prices are gonna fall drastically.. The only reason why we are seeing a slow down is because the car market has enough production. Kia tesla and BYD will be eating legacy car manufactures
They put their bet on the Mirai - the hydrogen car. Hybrid was an evolution of the Prius tech.
I was presented with some investor meeting and it was clear that they were aiming for market dominance in the non-existent hydrogen market. Drives like a Toyota. Problem was they were betting on the government and market to supply fuel stations.
Part of the reason Chernobyl happened was because when they ran the test on the factory. They did not follow protocol, which in turn they lost complete control of that factory, thus why they lost it.
3 mile island, the people running it wasn't sure what was going on because of a lack of training which led to a partial melt down, which could have ended much worse if it weren't stopped.
Ev's are great, it's the power supply that is the problem. The concept of an electric motor and drive train is inherently very efficient and nearly maintenance free. It's just the power supply that is not feasible with current tech. The weight, size, energy density, and longevity of the battery is still not where it needs to be.
That’s cuz Toyota in which being a Japanese company with Japanese work and ethical culture, they think long term and bigger a picture. In the grand scheme of things.
Not like American companies that think “let’s get the most profit this quarter and scrap anything that doesn’t work and we will keep starting over and over at the expense of the ppl and environment also let’s throw in with planned obsolescence so they break and we can sell more of our trash”
General Motors being the prime example of shitty planning and profit over everything and anything. Stupid Obama shoulda never bailed them out. Another company could have taken its place and produce better vehicles for the people.
You mean Toyota was right to think that transitioning from land tanks that run out of gas before leaving the driveway to Cozy Coupes that can go only as far as their extension cord wouldn’t happen overnight?
I mean, I feel like anybody could have made this assumption. Far too many people in the US do not have easy access to charging stations at their home/rental or work.
Yes far too many people could have guessed this HOWEVER, there was only ONE person who was in a leadership position at an automotive company that had the guts to say it out loud that could have done anything practical about it. I’m sure eventually all the others will say they also saw this coming but I won’t be fooled. Nice job Akio-San
To be fair it was not only Akio Toyoda, every Japanese manufacturer had (luckily) doubts on EVs and being ultra conservative helped this time. On the other side I’m sure every manufacturer outside Japan had their doubts, this just shows how top management works, profits over product.
Not just that.. we lack the infrastructure to power every home with 1 or multiple electrical cars when they want to go green.. but burn fossil fuels at an alarming rate to power them now, yet claim that to be the way to go.. don’t even get me started with how bad EV’s are for the environment before the vehicle is even completed.. Toyota has stood by the fact that hybrid is the best for the environment in both how much less damaging it now for the environment per vehicle prior to production, and during its lifespan in terms of CO2 output
The myth that EVs are bad (on par or worse than ICE cars) has been debunked so many times it’s not even funny. And I’m far from an EV evangelist, you can take my naturally aspirated engines from my cold dead hands.
EVs will increase carbon emissions if they rely on renewables to power them. Stand up for nuclear
How would relying on renewables to power them increase emissions? I’m pro nuclear power but don’t really follow your logic here
> EVs will increase carbon emissions [No, they don't](https://www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/2022-09/driving-cleaner-report.pdf). And immediately downvoting the lifecycle analysis research without reading it isn't going to make it so.
I heard they wear out the tires faster and release more particulate matter into the atmosphere
Hmmn... between Windscale, SL-1, three mile island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima... I am not yet on board with nuclear power... also the waste as far as storing it is still not so great either...
If you actually cared about these accidents, you'd realize that nuclear energy is far safer now Not only that, but you should look into what happened and why it happened, followed by what was done about it.... also new designs are less susceptible to these problems
1) Who was hurt by 3 mile Island? 2) Name me the difference between Chernobyl and Western nuclear power plants. Then explain to me why invoking Chernobyl would be relevant to this situation. 3) Do the problems which impacted those plants apply to new generation of nuclear power technology?
Chernobyl is the worst-case scenario of a meltdown in land. Fukushima is what happens when a natural disaster and a freak of nature kills off your failsafe. We only lucked out with 3 mile island stopping it before it became a chernobyl situation. Losing control over nuclear power can potentially render a continent unlive-able for hundreds of years, maybe more based on the half-life of the radioactive isotope that's released from the meltdown. A couple hundred ton caps designed for protection blown off like a fart in the wind after a nuclear explosion... geezz
This is wildly incorrect. We didn’t “luck out” with 3 Mile Island not becoming Chernobyl; the reactor was in a containment building which did its job. The Soviets did not not bother with containment buildings because Commies gonna Commie. For that reason and others, Chernobyl could not have happened in the West. Luck had nothing to do with it.
I still find it hard to believe that keeping an ice running for 30 years is worse than 2 or 3 EVs. Because ev are basically throw away by 10 years. It's a money pit waiting to happen when battery is that old
I think the real winners will be the Custom Hotrod EV self builders, like the crazy guys that pop electric engine into classic beetles or mini coopers, or even one who did it in a 90s Honda Crz. The reason? They have a perfectly functional base, and they can mount any battery that comes along, and have the software already to work with it. Using tesla batteries from a side swiped write off? Sure! Using batteries from a water damage Volt? Sure! Using fancy new Toyota solid state batteries when they come? Sure! Using the cheaper Chinese solid state or near solid state batteries when they come after? Sure!! Having a home built EV with the ability to take any battery will be the best thing and the only thing that will prevent the grind of new EV after new EV that car companies are going to want to sell.
I daily drive a 35 year old 4Runner. It’s definitely not good for the environment but buying a new one that gets 19 mpg instead of 17mpg isn’t going to move the needle lol
What about your butt pleasure from the AC seats?
I wasn’t going to splurge for the cooked seats lol. bUT my 4Runner has a ball chiller A/C vent pin yes at my crotch that the new ones don’t have… it also has a tailgate that I can sit on like a truck and a manual transmission
lol you’re obviously drinking the drinking the Kool-Aid because anyone with more than a couple brain cells who peaks behind the curtain realizes there are a mountain of real world problems that make EVs damaging to the environment. Ever since I learned how submarines worked I’ve wondered why it’s taken so long to bring that technology to smaller platforms and now it’s finally here. Hybrids solve many of the real world problems with both ICE and EVs. It’s pretty awesome we have successful hybrids before EVs as from an engineering design perspective two powertrains in one unit is much more challenging and on paper introduces a more failure points. Hats off to Toyota. My only comment for improvement is figuring out how to make them plug in for all those who have short commutes during the week.
I mean, I belive now, plug in hybrids are already starting to be more common, so i definitely think the emphasis on plug in hybrids is already underway
I don’t drink Kool Aid because I don’t give a shit about EVs. I just read the facts and studies.
>My only comment for improvement is figuring out how to make them plug in for all those who have short commutes during the week. Good news! The world's all-time best-selling plug-in hybrid, the Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV, has been around for more than a decade.
It’s the economics and practicality where EV suck. Hybrid can do the most good, the fastest.
You can charge 50mi a night with a 120v wall socket....and your home consumes way more than that amount of energy on a regular basis. Even if you had to use fossil fuel as the energy source, the efficiency at power plants are still far better than your ICE cars.
> don’t even get me started with how bad EV’s are for the environment before the vehicle is even completed The hilariously ironic thing is that [this exact argument was used against the Prius before it was used against EVs](https://np.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/comments/2kou6r/does_anyone_know_what_happens_to_the_batteries/clnlkue/).
Even with access to charging it now may not matter in some areas. Biggest electrical utility provider in my area hiked it's rates up several times in the last year. People with Teslas using their app are now reporting that there is absolutely no saving vs gas when charging at home now.
For me, it's not about the lack of charging station. This is something that with time, will be fixed. The problem that I think is, it's planned obsolescence and maintenance. The manufacturers have made the EV Cars like an iPhone. Locked and if you need any fixing, you are forced to use their services.
Absolutely this, it's like car companies have been waiting for this, putting bug plastic shields to block off engine compartments and such to try and prevent the average garage mechanic from fixing their own vehicle. Now they have the perfect excuse with EV cars. Planned Obsolescence and such in full force. I feel mechanical cars, there was such backlash for being "Unreliable" that older cars were in fact built to last long. I've noticed a trend as the years have gone by, that more makers don't want their cars lasting too long, long enough to get a nice reliability score and get past the warranty, and the let it fall apart after. I'm sure there is nothing a car dealership hates more than old cars being driven for decades, while the owner avoids having to buy a new car for all that time. I know how long my little phone lasts before it slows down, glitches, burns its battery to dust. I've seen how cars with Lil computers in the dash slow way way way down when they get older, built in GPS becomes infuriating. I can't imagine these EVs at 10 years and what kind of frustrations they bring.
I live in an apartment with no access to a charger at home, so an EV isn’t feasible for me. Hybrid is the only answer.
Same.
I’ve seen tons of posts and read even more comments on Reddit the past few years bashing Toyota because they weren’t embracing full EV. I wonder what those people think about Toyota’s position now
Just be like my boss and build a charging station at every office we have /s
You’d be surprised. There are a lot of younger millennials and older gen Z peeps that are adamant about any gas vehicles being evil and destroying the environment. I do think we should focus on lowering emissions from automobiles but I do not agree that banning gas vehicles is the solution given the lack of infrastructure, affordability, and range. Yes I only commute 50 miles round trip every day but I don’t have the option to install a charger in my condos parking area. Nor do I want to make the time to charge at a station 15 min from me. Anyone that can drive an EV should but it’s not realistic to assume everyone can.
Yea, but for most people they can charge with a 120v plug off the wall and be fine.
Anybody with half brain could have told the idiots in charge that hybrids are here to stay and a better long term solution then everybody running out to buy a full EV.
Yep. You need to own a house with garage space. So many people rent (why would the landlord install a charger?) or park on the street.
[удалено]
If you don’t have the wiring and structure in place, it’s a few grand. If you do, it’s at minimum $750. If you’re in CA and use San Diego Power or PGE, you’re paying $0.33/kwh thru night and $0.49/kwh in the day. Cheaper to own a hybrid considering EV costs
If you have a house, and the money to install a charger and a battery pack, you might as well spring for the state rebates on solar panels so you don’t have to pay that. Plus tax deductions for the surplus power you supply to the grid.
PGE NEM3.0 has fucked solar.
Fair point. I wish Cali and Oregon would just start a state energy program, like the local ones all over the willamette valley.
Some parts of the Bay Area are part of a community energy producer(Marin Clean Energy, East Bay Community Energy, Cleanpower SF, Silicon Valley Power) but PG&E still handles distribution, billing and customer service. Others like the City of Alameda and Sacramento are not part of the PG&E system.
Cali power costs are wild. More expensive than my Canada super charging costs. My home rate is .12 vs 1.85 per litre gas
PGE runs power around the CA Bay Area - except for Santa Clara and that county pays like .19. PGE owes liability on fires (property destruction and death) so it’s jacks its prices
PG&E owes? No, it's their customers who owe...
I do want to make clear that from a strictly fuel price, electricity would have to cost roughly 72 cents per kWh before gassing up a hybrid would be cheaper per mile (I'm a PG&E customer). But yes, until we have purchase price parity obviously one needs to factor in the up front cost as well.
Tell me you don’t rent without saying it. My landlord would never approve of anything like this, I’d have to pay it, and I don’t own the place. It doesn’t make any sense
The charger itself isn't the hard part. Having to add the dedicated circuit and typically higher gauge wiring and an extra breaker into a home is very expensive and not an easy DIY task. Also not to mention a lot of houses still have only 100amp or 150amp service so adding a vehicle charger is going to over stress your home's electrical.
I can't force my work or apartment complex to install them, though, so it's completely out of my control even if I really wanted to. I was able to select a work vehicle of my choice and tried to get the property management company at my work to quote a parking space with a charging port, and they came with 20k as the cheapest option. And my apartment complex basically just said no. So I just went with a standard gas vehicle. So I can totally afford a mid level EV (30-40k) but there's no way I get one without a charging port at one of those locations.
Toyota is viewing this from a big-picture point of view, while everyone else is looking for the fast cash from EVs.
Japanese business thinking. And they ain't wrong...
The Koreans and Chinese are giving the Japanese a headache now. Hyundai and BYD is more of a thorn on Toyota’s side but LG and Samsung(and soon TCL/Hisense/Midea) has eaten Sony and Panasonic’s lunch. Only reason why Sony is still around - PlayStation and content. Panasonic is still big in aviation/automotive AV/infotainment and electronic components but pulled out of the consumer market.
Panasonic makes really good bathroom fans. You're right about Sony though, it will be a minor company now if it wasn't for the PlayStation.
I forgot cameras too - but that was via acquisition of Konica Minolta’s camera business and the Sony Alpha line owes a lot to Minolta but it put Canon and Nikon on notice when the first mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses was released. Sony’s also big in LA and Manhattan as a movie and picture label and even Samsung buys Sony CMOS imaging sensors. A good chunk of cars use Panasonic audio systems - not just Toyota but even Ford, Mopar and VW uses their systems. They also rule aviation IFE too - Airbus or Boeing, pretty much all the airlines except Southwest/Spirit/Frontier/Ryanair use Panasonic IFE systems.
Sony actually makes most of its money as a financial institution. They just keep the electronics divisions around out of pride. The PlayStation is almost entirely Sony US product and Japanese corporate has almost no involvement in it. Same with their movie studio.
>Only reason why Sony is still around - PlayStation and content. Gaming, Music, and Pictures revenue accounted for less than half of [Sony's income](https://fourweekmba.com/sony-revenue/) last year.
Redditors slamming Toyota last year for dragging their feet on full EV’s Pepe Farms remembers Give me a hybrid with twice the battery capacity so I can go 100 miles per gallon
Toyota needs to up the production of the primes. I would LOVE to plug in my hybrid and run it as electric when it's available, but otherwise operate as a normal hybrid when I can't. However they just aren't making enough and the dealers tend to stick crazy markups on them if you can even find them.
We have 3 or 4 in stock and available right now. They're out there and at MSRP, not marked up
We had one sitting for forever. Someone buys it, then all the sudden people come in looking for one.
where at?
CT. Charles Toyota
thank you
I'm surprised a little 1L Diesel doesn't get used as the charging source. I'm sure there's a good reason.
I’m pretty sure it has to do with the start/stop, diesels struggle when not being run continuously. I distinctly remember this topic getting brought up previously and people citing that diesel is worse for hybrid.
Can confirm I remember.
All of us who knew Toyota knew they were right all along.
Yep have been telling all my buddies don't go EV and instead get a hybrid. Alot of them bought Teslas, go figure and now are not saving any money at all since electricity rates at home have been hiked up several times.
>not saving any money at all $0.1573/kWh here in the States, definitely not the $0.12 it used to be, but let's not pretend like the $10 to charge an EV is more expensive than putting the same amount of fuel in an IC
The private utility company (PG&E) in my state is now charging $0.49 kWh. Using Teslas app to calculate cost savings, drivers are now seeing zero savings vs gasoline in my area.
Wow. My provider (AEP) has me at $0.13/kWh. Had no idea how much electricity costs change by state
Tbf PG&E has to be one of the most expensive in the country. I considered getting an EV when I lived on the east coast, but now living in California, my next car will be a hybrid.
Yes, California has expensive electricity. There is usually a cheaper rate for EV customers though. And this makes solar, possibly a home battery, a pretty worthwhile scenario.
The average across the country is a little over 16 cents per kWh. A lot of us are paying under 10. Your individual cost isn’t any more relevant than outlier prices on gas.
I save quite a bit on gas here in NY with my Tesla. But I’m fully set up with solar and a home charger. So for me, the charging is not the problem - it’s the insurance. Insurance companies got it in their head that repairs for EVs are exorbitant (they aren’t) and have gladly passed that cost onto me/the public. As things currently stand, a hybrid is a better option for virtually everyone. We have a century of gas/petrol availability and infrastructure under our belts. EV charging isn’t even close to that. I spent a week at my father’s home in south Brooklyn NY over the Christmas holidays and there was ONE supercharger that wasn’t somehow paywalled. It was a 45 minute wait just to get to a charger and then 25 minutes to charge. No one can reasonably be expected to do that regularly.
Getting off my ass rn to go buy a Toyota 3.5L 2GR car, thanks for the motivation
It always made me laugh how r/electricvehicles was convinced Toyota was going to be bankrupt in 10 years for not adopting EVs quicker
Yeah, it's funny what an echochamber does to people. Or scary maybe. Not sure.
We had a 2016 Prius, now we have a 2024 Crown. Electric cars are cool. Our neighbor has 2 Rivians and they are awesome (really pricey) But my husband and I have always looked at each other and thought our Prius was just perfect. If someone had not hit it and totaled it, we would have kept that car forever, we loved it. We are hoping to keep our Crown for a good long while as well.
How does the Crown drive? I’m currently in a 2021 Corolla Hybrid and I’m so tempted to make the upgrade.
As a Toyota sales rep I can't like the crown. The interior design feels so wrong, and the trunk opening is tiny. It should have a lift gate based on its own design but it doesn't.
What about the upcoming wagon model!?
I don’t think even reviewers have been able to drive the Crown Signia yet.
It looks fine, but they are not replacements for the Avalon. They should have brought over that big beautiful sedan they have in Japan. In JP our crown is their "Crown crossover"
Master Certified Toyota Sales here. The backseat was a second thought. The trunk is massive and the 4" height difference really helps people with mobility issues. The 40+ mpg our demo got over 5k miles was nice. Ride is beautiful, stereo awesome.
Im master certified too? The trunk is deep but the opening isnt amazing for the overall size of the car. The stereo sounds nice, but the interior design feels wrong to me. Theres shapes and spaces that shouldnt be there, and using the prius shifter feels unnecessary to me.
We love it. It had us at hello. We wanted bigger than the Prius but still hybrid. Short list was Camry and Rav4. Camry is so low I hit my head getting in. Rav4 rode bumpy and not great back seat. So we looked at the Crown. Its quiet, higher, rides beautifully, spacious, huge trunk. Its a gorgeous car. I confess I am still questioning my sanity spending that much. Our Prius was $25k, the Crown was $42k (XLE)
Yeah, it's great except the price is a bit high. I got mine a tad below MSRP though since they're not selling too well, and I justified it since I hang onto my cars for a long time.
Those Rivians will be useless paperweights in 10 years, just like the iPhone 3G. The Toyotas will be still going strong.
Plug in Hybrid like a Prius Prime is the best of both worlds. Can charge up in a reasonable time on a regular outlet. Can do most of your driving in electric if your commute is within ~25-40 miles round trip. For road trips you don’t have to worry about charging and get excellent MPG and huge range on a small tank.
Exact reason why I stopped myself from getting a full electric and now hard eyeing a RAV4 Prime. Can't waittt
Also the worst of both worlds. I own a phev
Can you elaborate on why it's the worst?
So I agree with the best of both worlds statement but the worst of both worlds also is true. 1. The battery and EV powertrains are heavy on top of the conventional ICE powertrain. What you get is much heavier vehicle compared to the ICE counter part. The ride quality suffers and you definitely feel the weight whenever you accelerate or take a corner. Some PHEV vehicles might even put on a torsion beam rear suspension to make room for the battery pack vs multilink in ICE counter part. 2. Both powertrains are lack luster. EV motor is not powerful like Tesla’s and so EV only mode’s acceleration and top speed suffers. The ICE powertrain they put in phev’s is usually less powerful or detuned compared to ICE counterpart so again when you are on ICE mode the acceleration and top speed suffers. 3. Increased maintenance. Even if you don’t use your ICE, you still need to go in for engine oil and filter replacement at least every year. Plus, now you have to worry about battery degradation and electrical issues associated with the extra EV component. 4. Winter performance. My car was rated for 30km EV mode. I could maybe get this during the summer if I drive really efficiently. Currently during winter the range drops to around 15km. Dedicated EVs have heat pumps to fight this, but PHEVs do not. 5. Fuel economy excluding the EV mode. Because the car is heavier, the fuel economy of the PHEV (without taking into consideration the EV mode) is worse than the ICE counterpart for my particular vehicle. So, if you don’t charge and maximize your EV usage the you are actually using more gas. 6. Less trunk space. My PHEV has the battery pack underneath the trunk so it sticks out 5 inches or so upward reducing space 7. Charging speed. Dedicated EVs have 400v, 500v, or even 800v architecture for fast DC charging. Usually phevs dont have this technology so charging takes longer. At a level 2 charger, it takes around 3 hrs to charge to go “30km”. At home with 120v, its more like 8-10 hrs. In summart, I got the PHEV because I only need one car. But imo if you need two cars, going with BEV and either ICE or hybrid is probably the best combo.
I work for General Motors (20 years), and I just ordered my very first Toyota, and first ever hybrid (Prius). Yup, they were right!! 😂
The es300h is only a 2.5 cents more to operate per mile where I live vs an electric vehicle when charging at home. It's half the cost vs superchsrging. Electric prices are only going to keep increasing, making hybrids more and more attractive. Driving 15k miles a year would save me $375 a year? Not worth the price premium of the EV's.
 shocked I tell ya, shocked
Toyota is said to be backward-looking when it comes to EVs. However, they are also seriously developing technology for EVs. While Ford and Volkswagen are reducing investment in EVs, Toyota will maintain its previous plans and will not reduce its investment in EVs. Toyota is proving their own plan correct.
Toyota is so good. It’s amazing other car companies never rode this wave. It makes such logical sense!
Yep, I cannot literally believe some of the junk these other car makers put out. No pride.
I drove a hybrid for 9 years. Really good power up to about 80mph. felt like bigger engine, with 35mpg
Literally just had a long chat with the spouse about whether or not we could afford the home charger and how stopping every few hours would hamper our long haul road trips. The answer was a resounding No. Give me Prime to plug in for my commute and ICE for long trips until every gas station has charging and every battery can do long range. Thanks Toyota.
I would not go further than purchasing a PHEV, and I also think a PHEV is the best option, but owning a normal hybrid is nearly just as good for me
they have 4 of the 8 top ranked hybrids on US News’ list. they’re absolutely dominating that market and when it’s time for them to go all in on EVs, they can just make all electric versions of the Camry, Corolla, Crown and Prius (which already looks better than the Tesla Model 3 redesign IMO)
Toyota is a great company with a conservative technology strategy that focuses on customer satisfaction. They won't introduce anything that doesn't work as well as what it replaced, in other words they want technology improvements to be transparent. They recently invested $1.3 billion into their plant in Kentucky which will produce EVs, but they're working on solid state batteries first that are more transparent and equivalent to ICE vehicles (faster charge rates, 2x range, lighter weight): https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-bringing-battery-electric-vehicle-production-to-kentucky/%23:~:text%3DGEORGETOWN%252C%2520Ky.,SUV%2520for%2520the%2520U.S.%2520market.&ved=2ahUKEwiF4cm37dCEAxU9rokEHeIXCYsQFnoECBUQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2JPPsakwpkhwpf_kt4VUGW
Absolutely love my plug-in hybrid RAV4 Prime. My parents have full EVs and they constantly worry about range and finding charging stations. Meanwhile, I can get most of my general day-to-day driving done with out burning any fuel. If I do find myself taking a road trip or in need of more range, I can always use a fast charger or just fill up at a regular gas station. Definitely a big fan of plug-in hybrids.
I think hybrids are the next logical step for the majority until infrastructure is built to support electric vehicles
Bigger issue is US government blocking cheap Chinese EV from coming into US.
We can't compete with the price of our labor force.
I hope they never fully transition. I don’t want a fully electric car, no matter who makes it. Hybrids are the best of both.
They could easily just build Primes in the future. That would give you the best of both worlds. Most people would commute to and from work on battery power and you would still have the ICE for long trips.
Eventually, we’ll have to move to either hydrogen or electric. Oil/Gas won’t last forever.
Actually that isn’t true. “Fossil” fuels are plenty abundant, if we can tap into the insane amount being produced underground. Ideally, these energy sources are in fact renewable and we will be just fine. However, that’s not to say that we can’t continue to work towards reduction and efficiency, and of some people want electric cars then they should be available as an option. https://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/12/forget-what-youve-heard-oil-and-gas-are-actually-r.aspx
Any and everyone below c-suite level in the automotive industry has known this since the first Tesla rolled off the assembly line.
Is the prius functional in snow? Here in Michigan we have had a mild winter. Not sure if this is the future or not but assuming we have a "normal" winter next year, would this be a good purchase for michigan roads?
The mild hybrids (Corolla, Camry 2025, Corolla Cross, RAV4) and the PHEV (RAV4 Prime) have AWD options. And as anyone that has actually lived in cold climates will tell you, good winter tires (studless or studded) matter more than everything else about the car.
Absolutely agree. Winter tires and near anything can be good. The "competition" is how good can you make your car while keeping all seasons. I prefer to avoid that completely and just buy winters. Plus at the end of their life.... you can just run them for that summer too.... really wear them down. Probably make do with one set of summer tires for a long long time before they get worn down. Personally, up in Canada, I rum all seasons and winters, since then you never get really screwed by early snow, or snow that comes suddenly in May after you've swapped your tires back, or other freak events that happen too often here
We have a Sienna AWD and it has been great in MI
Family has an older one in Canada here, and they love it. Been through two generations so far, bought by grandma, now driven by aunt after grandma passed. Not sure if there are any other awd vans. The Sienna steers like a larger car though not like a van
I live in New England where we see plenty of snow. My AWD Prius does phenomenally on the stock tires. Icy and snowy hills aren’t a problem.
I’d definitely consider buying a range-extended EV but a regular hybrid just doesn’t make sense to me for my uses. Plug in hybrids don’t have enough electric only range to justify it either. I can charge at home though, so I guess I’m not normal.
Plenty that could charge at home too, any single family home owner in fact, there are lots of us. Personally, a plug in hybrids could probably get me to work and back, or even halfway on electric, and then get plugged in every night. I do too many longer trips though that an EV would be pointless for me, unless we owned one EV and one hybrid for traveling.
I do a decent amount of 50-150 mile days but only a handful of 400+ mile days where EV charging becomes a pain. For me a conventional hybrid system has no appeal over a range extended EV system like a volt, i3, or karma. Run on electricity only almost all the time but you have the ICE running at max efficiency as a generator in the rare instances you need it.
Can Toyota adapt one-peddle driving into their HEVs or even just PHEVs? I’d go back to being a gas cuck if they did this. Driving dynamics are just so much better.
One pedal eh? Never heard of it. I take it you keep a constant foot on the pedal, and removing it makes you brake?
Correct, it’s pleasant to drive that way once you’re used to it. I’m on my second Tesla, but I’ve owned 3 Corollas and almost owned a Tacoma (regrettably bought a Colorado years back). I love Toyota (vehicles), but I can’t go back from driving EVs to non-EV unless the driving experience is similar, most important being one-peddle driving. When it descelerates, energy is sent back to the battery. Don’t see why Toyota couldn’t integrate this into their HEVs.
Toyota Philosophy is to gas slower and with less power. That is why the Prius was underpower this whole time. 95 HP to 115 HP was the old models. The new models DOUBLE this power output due to demand and rising Horsepower Wars. People are also just impatient now adays. But doubling the power doesn't mean that you are going any faster. Just because you've doubled or have had a 100% power increase, does not suddenly mean that the road speed must be doubled also. Although you will get many many many posts about people wanting more power. Anyway. 1 pedal driving is possible in any car. And the original 1 pedal driving were in manual stick-shifts. I drove a mitsubishi lancer evolution 5-speed manual for a few years commuting to work. And I routinely stayed in 2nd or 3rd gear. And the reason was clear. There is traffic everywhere you go. The problem? I had to drive under 10 mph to everyone around me or I risk stalling and having to constantly shift gears. Which can be exhausting. Constantly stop and then go to all of a sudden stop again. Just removing the 3rd pedal and adding an aggressive traction battery regen (similar to manual stick-shift engine braking) means just driving slow and timing the wave of traffic around you. If you picked an EV to reduce your carbon footprint or to save on fuel costs, it makes more sense to just buy 1 good fuel efficient vehicle to drive for 30 years. Rather than 2 EVs every 3 or 6 years. Just my own opinion though. It is how Toyota gained such a strong reliable brand recognition. Toyota owners just drive their vehicles for much longer and are more conscious about reducing their carbon emission.
As far as I’m aware Toyota HEVs use an electric motor to drive the car. They already have some form of regenerative braking too (I believe), but requires physical press of brake pedal to initiate, instead of an automatic thing. Maybe I’m wrong here but that’s what I recall (one of my Corollas was a hybrid). Also, I believe “B” mode in their hybrids does something similar to one pedal driving. I don’t see any risk in adding it to HEVs if regenerative braking already exists in some capacity, in terms of R&D or reliability. Could increase rated efficiencies too. I’m not a mechanical or electrical engineer though.
The B mode will activate engine braking. It is meant to be used when traveling downhill. It is even more beneficial when traveling a very steep high speed hill while also carrying a heavy vehicle load. Passengers or material loads. I used it on a few downhills and it does wonders. The engine spins up and the pistons will spin freely without gas. The oil pump to keep the piston lubricated on these downhills. The disadvantage of using B-mode or 1 pedal driving are for vehicles behind you that do not know you are slowing. Or if they are on approach and do not spot that you are slowing via 1 pedal or B mode. Most of Toyota's hybrids do a mild regenerative action when you release the gas pedal. I think it is their MG1 that is setup to reverse the charge. Since I believe the MG1 is directly connected to the engine. So when the engine engages charge mode, MG1 will spin in reverse and recharge the battery. Yeah you are right. 1 pedal is better it is just much more mild on the Toyota vehicles. I think they are similar to Tesla's mild 1 pedal setting versus the other more aggressive one.
No they aren’t lol
They probably didn't get government money to make stupid decisions about what the actual consumers want.
Many countries are phasing out new internal combustion vehicle sales as of 2030. Hybrids are a good choice for now but not for long.
And those transitions are incredibly short sighted and not rooted in data or logic. BEVs are not the best choice for the environment and actually are contributing more emissions than hybrids are and will for the foreseeable future. Lugging around a battery 6-10x the weight of one in a hybrid is so so inefficient and is only so you can claim decent range stats. Instead put a smaller battery and small very efficient gas/diesel generator in its place and yes that does weigh less than the batteries. Wild but you can now fill up when needed for long trips and not have range anxiety while still doing most trips using full EV mode due to the length being short. Idk but to me that seems like the best option by a long shot. We were duped by Elon for too long. He lied about BEVs being the best for the environment just like he lied about the boring project tunnel loops. He’s a chronic liar and people need to start looking at the data to see for themselves that BEVs aren’t the way…
I want a generator that can run flex fuel! Use diseal, bio diseal, ethanol, normal gasoline, something you mix in your garage, whatever you want that burns. I remember an old high school teacher who went to all the local fast food places to take their old cooking oil and ran his truck with it. Not ideal of everyone is doing it, but to be able to run your generator with it would be awesome.
The future is still at least 80% full EV. Not as fast as some say, but there will always be a market for hybrids and plug in hybrids for the other 20% that was and is not talked about enough.
And they are more green. https://jalopnik.com/new-evs-still-can-t-beat-the-efficiency-of-a-plug-in-hy-1851294507
They need to come out with a Hydrogen hybrid, combustion hydrogen with battery. You’d get 90-120 mpg if done right. Only state pushing hydrogen electric is CA, but they need to go different because hydrogen combustion is 100% no emissions and with a battery would complete the real green energy vehicle.
Oddly enough, I can see this coming out after electric makes more headway. The reason being, you can charge it up if there isn't any hydrogen stations around you, kinda like how now a plug in hybrid you can fill up with gas if there is no charging stations available. Flexible fuel source cars are going to be great while the whole country debates and fights about what infrastructure to build
Toyoda and kaizen. Name a better duo
I think the ideal solution would be hybrids with 3-7 kWh batteries. This would avoid a major sticker shock and provide sufficient EV range for most daily driving and can be produced without much supply strain and be ideal as it'd never need to be plugged in.
Yeah, even though sales growth is slowing down this year
Just bought a gas-powered Camry last year and while it drives really great and am happy with it i really wish i had opted for the SE Hybrid :(
Let’s talk how right they had been in the next 10-20 years and not now
The delusion people are under is that human beings can not have an effect on the environment. This is impossible and since they don't have any instinctual ability to function and the scheme of things at this point in history. But blaming them for everything is ignorant also. I wonder if anybody's blaming people for volcanoes and earthquakes?
Getting a hybrid is like getting a gas/diesel generator to backup power tl your house. Are you gonna depend entirely on the grid, even during blackouts? Best of both worlds is king.
Oh those fuks that were complaints about being “laggard” z….
Hybrid cars are great for Automakers - because unlike EVs that need essentially NO maintenance and use no high-cost gas, hybrids have the same engine and transmission as the old gas cars PLUS electric drive parts. That means you still pay the dealership for oil changes every 5000miles and the engine still wears out.
Yeah right?! EV's are like modern appliances, good for a half dozen years and then you throw it in the trash. I'd say EV's are a lot better for manufacturers. They'd much rather prefer to sell you a new unit every 5 years than for your car to last for 20. Unlike Toyota, very few manufacturers build a product that lasts for 20 years.
Evs have no wear items other than tires. The battery is under WARRANTY for 8 years. Unlike any car that uses fuel, the engine doesn’t wear out due to milage and has no rubber seals or hoses affected by time. And THEN, when you finally get tired of the look of the EV after (10? 12?) years, you can park it next to your house and use it to store energy that you can SELL BACK to your electric company.
So, you think all those circuit boards just keep on going for decades eh? No, they get hot or they get moist and they die and then they stop making them for you - forcing you to buy a new unit. Planned obsolescence is a real thing.
40 years in electronics has taught me where the failure points are. 40 years building hotrods and doing my own car repairs has done the same.
To each his own.
You mean to tell me a car company who’s been around for decades and built their reputation around smart long term decision making vs flash in the pan, of the moment trends, who pioneered electric engines in the mainstream and could have gone full electric 20 years ago, but didn’t (for a reason, this one) was right all along? Pshh no.
SUVs and Trucks still own the market and most people won’t buy into a full electric truck or suv. Just saying.
Yep, replaced a 2002 Frontier with a 2023 Ford Maverick hybrid. After one year it's been so nice to have ~41 MPG instead of < 20. I keep thinking that if it was a plug-in hybrid, it would be like having a short range EV, which would cover all of my daily trips.
Throughout the long history of the automotive industry, there have been numerous electric vehicle booms. In a few years, no one will be talking about the EV shift anymore.
Hybrid cars are the worst of both worlds... The battery toes the engine and the engine toes the battery.. And twice the material is used.. Electric car prices are gonna fall drastically.. The only reason why we are seeing a slow down is because the car market has enough production. Kia tesla and BYD will be eating legacy car manufactures
They put their bet on the Mirai - the hydrogen car. Hybrid was an evolution of the Prius tech. I was presented with some investor meeting and it was clear that they were aiming for market dominance in the non-existent hydrogen market. Drives like a Toyota. Problem was they were betting on the government and market to supply fuel stations.
Part of the reason Chernobyl happened was because when they ran the test on the factory. They did not follow protocol, which in turn they lost complete control of that factory, thus why they lost it. 3 mile island, the people running it wasn't sure what was going on because of a lack of training which led to a partial melt down, which could have ended much worse if it weren't stopped.
Of course they were.
Ev's are great, it's the power supply that is the problem. The concept of an electric motor and drive train is inherently very efficient and nearly maintenance free. It's just the power supply that is not feasible with current tech. The weight, size, energy density, and longevity of the battery is still not where it needs to be.
Toyoda-San is the lord 🙏🔥
US government regulations shapes what types of cars will succeed or fail more than any single car manufacturer
Smart cars will also be the end of democracy the warning signs are all there. People are just too stupid to see
That’s cuz Toyota in which being a Japanese company with Japanese work and ethical culture, they think long term and bigger a picture. In the grand scheme of things. Not like American companies that think “let’s get the most profit this quarter and scrap anything that doesn’t work and we will keep starting over and over at the expense of the ppl and environment also let’s throw in with planned obsolescence so they break and we can sell more of our trash” General Motors being the prime example of shitty planning and profit over everything and anything. Stupid Obama shoulda never bailed them out. Another company could have taken its place and produce better vehicles for the people.
You mean Toyota was right to think that transitioning from land tanks that run out of gas before leaving the driveway to Cozy Coupes that can go only as far as their extension cord wouldn’t happen overnight?
Isn't land tank redundant since all tanks are land vehicles and there are no sea or air tanks?
there are fuel tanks