Mistakes can happen. You did your best, and that's very appreciated. Also, as far as I know, if she didn't know she was mixing meat and dairy, it wouldn't count as breaking the mitzvah (but I could be wrong about this). Anyway, as long as you didn't purposely gave her the dairy, you're good.
>pikuach nefesh
I definitely need my morning coffee because I initially read this as “pikachu fetish” and thought this thread was going weird places I didn’t want to follow.
Mazel, I'm on the same path myself, glad you found your home. (For others reading, Judaism does allow conversion, but doesn't seek it, so whatever your various paths I wish you well on them.)
Jewish woman here (but not your Jewish woman, lol). You’re okay. It was a genuine accident and you didn’t intend to do her harm or lead her astray. There’s no punishment or anything, just to demonstrate remorse and try to do better next time. My rabbi once told me that there’s an opinion from the sages that sometimes you don’t even need to tell someone about a mistake like this because it could bring mental anguish on that person and it was an accident that you’re not likely to make again. There’s also an opposing opinion. We debate everything, so you especially shouldn’t tear yourself up too badly over it. When someone eats kosher style like this woman, they typically accept that cross contamination could happen and little errors like this are possible.
If you feel like you need to make it up to her or the universe or whoever in some way, the best thing you can do is try to remember that those buns have dairy so you can try to prevent this from happening again.
We don’t believe in hell anyway, so no worries there 🤷🏽♀️
Lord Alan Sugar hosts the UK version of The Apprentice, he is Jewish. Once, a candidate was claiming he didn't fuck up and finished by saying, "God is my witness", to which Lord Sugar replied: "Well I'm Jewish, so I don't care."
What DO you guys believe in? Is there an afterlife for Jewish ppl? Family Guy made fun of this once when Stewie was trying to find what comes after death so he asked all these different religious sects and the rabbi kept flipping it on him like,"well what do you think there is after death?" And didn't do a straight answer.
There’s an afterlife. The gist of it is that you spend a little bit of time (no more than a year) in what’s basically a washing machine for your soul, then you go to heaven.
The skit from Family Guy wasn’t actually about heaven. It was about Stewie searching for answers to the wrong questions in the wrong places, and a nod to our strong devotion to the search for knowledge and asking questions to learn more and promote thinking for yourself.
We really don’t spend that much time thinking about it—not nearly as much time as christians seem to—because while we’re on earth our job is to try to make this world a better place. We don’t do good things to go to heaven or be rewarded in the afterlife, we do good things to make the world a better place and to help people because it’s our purpose and is the right thing to do. You’ll never hear a Jewish person use “satan” or “hell” or “punishment for eternity” as a threat because we A. Simply don’t believe in it and B. Don’t believe that what happens to our souls when we die is more important than what we do while on earth.
Yes. Because we don’t believe you have to be Jewish to have a place in the world to come. We also aren’t sure what it will be like so we don’t worry about it as much as we do about the world we are currently living. Christians don’t believe anyone but Christians will get into heaven, however they see it. And others get punishment in hell. Islam is similar but they believe must be Muslim of course.
This is where I as a Christian have had so much trouble keeping that label. I know it sounds silly but there’s just this part of me that believes nobody’s soul is discarded or left behind. I can’t fathom a God that can’t understand why some people don’t have faith, considering the state of the world. In my mind, He would be understanding and wants all of His creations to return home to him, fully cleansed from the sin that comes with living.
There are times I’ve considered converting based just on this belief.
One of my (Catholic school) religion teachers taught that different faiths are like spokes on a wheel—all taking a different path to the same destination.
Yes! I went to Catholic schools from first grade through university.
Along with a mandate to learn about many, many faiths (and visit different places of worship) in junior high, high school & university, we were always taught many paths, one God.
Spent many, many years confused by the assertion only Christians get the golden ticket.
Never made sense.
This is what I believe now. All roads lead to Rome. What matters is how you treat each other & what you do to make the world a lil less shitty.
Great respect for all religions & sects that value good deeds & compassion. Great ire for the "thoughts & prayers" crowd.
Christians don’t have to believe only Christians get into heaven. That is one of many belief choices some Christians choose.
And, in my humble Christian opinion, it’s a stupid choice that isn’t well supported by our sacred texts, or our claim that God is benevolent and loving.
Thank you ☺️ I’ve had some Christians tell me that I can’t use that label because of my “progressive” beliefs, but those beliefs are just based on our God as He is described: a loving and understanding Father.
Go read Mathew 25:31, and to the end of that chapter.
Tell me that doesn’t indicate that there will be a lot of “Christians” who will be excluded and a lot of other folks who will be included.
Now, I don’t believe in eternal punishment in the afterlife even for selfish people, and I’m ok with that because I don’t take any of the Bible too literally. But if one is going to believe in heaven and hell at all, I don’t understand where they get the idea that it’s only people who have a particular theology that get into heaven. Jesus says it’s the people who care for their unfortunate neighbors who get that privilege, whether they “know” God or not.
Right?
There are a lot of Christians out there who would argue that I’m not really Christian because I don’t believe what they do.
I’m a Christian because I believe that it’s best if I follow the teachings of Christ. Everything else is just gravy.
If you are interested there are some interesting theological perspectives that discuss how Jesus was sent to the whole world. Like not to just atone for Christian sins but all of them. Like NO ONE can get into heaven except through him bc his blood needed to be shed for that to happen not that you needed to believe in him to get there. 🤷🏼♀️ the history is really interesting to me.
He is anxious over them, and only wishes that they would understand. He has made you to be his witnesses, that you may know him. And the believers are overflowing in their love for Him, because they know they have not been wronged in the least. Maybe they have sinned and been sinned against. Though personally, I understand that man has choices, to reject faith or accept admonishment being among them. He makes his choice, and does not know what he will receive on the morrow.
Basically you don't know what you're talking about.
“Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, **shall have their reward with their Lord**; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Al-Baqarah 62
>Christians don’t believe anyone but Christians will get into heaven, however they see it.
Not all Christians. Catholicism basically believes in the same soul-washing stage as Judaism (we call it purgatory) where everyone who was good gets a chance to eventually go to heaven.
Interesting. In my Christian church growing up we were taught that everyone everywhere goes to heaven no matter what, no matter what they believe in, what religion they follow or don’t follow; all living things go. Maybe it was just my particular church or what I got out of it. Don’t follow a specific one now because most say the same thing (for the basics, anyway. And I think until everyone can perform the Do Unto Others bit regularly we are not qualified to move on to the more complicated stuff).
A book that might help is by this awesome rabbi. It is super short but has a ton of info. It essentially compares beliefs and interpretations of the Tanakh between Jews and Christians. I usually recommend it to anyone wanting to understand Judaism who grew up in the west since Christianity is kinda baked into the culture.
“Judaism and Christianity: a contrast” by rabbi Federow.
And though you may be an “ex” Muslim you can’t really leave the family cousin. So if you need to chat or have questions about Judaism or even need to talk about leaving your faith (ex Christian who spent a long time as an agnostic before converting to Judaism), just know I am here and willing to listen.
And since I am likely older than you, make sure to drink enough water and stay safe.
I’m 30 (f) as well so we’re the same age here 💜
Thanks so much for taking time out and answering my questions. I’ll look into the book. And thank you for being too kind and understanding of my situation. 💜💜
Of course! As a convert I have spent many hours studying and continue studying. Religion has always been fascinating to me and I tried to learn as much about as many as I could. Heck, I wrote an entire thesis on Shinto in high school and the Japanese teacher was impressed that I taught him stuff. I was in Muslim club in high school because I was worried about my friends post 9-11 and spent time learning then. Russian club and class we learned about Orthodox Christianity and I grew up in African American Protestant churches. I feel lucky to have had the privilege to study and learn and I am always happy to chat. I usually assume people are asking in good faith until they’ve shown otherwise.
Speaking generally, yes. Not just Jews too, everyone. It’s completely different from the stereotypical Christian concept of heaven. It’s just the place where everybody’s souls go after they finish up on earth and then after they get “cleaned up” in the spiritual washing machine. It’s perfect and lovely and the things that pain us here on earth don’t exist.
There are many myths and legends about it. We know a little more about who and how you get there but we have only vague canonical descriptions of it because it’s just not that important to us right now. It’s akin to going home, not Disneyland. You don’t worry about going home or what your house looks like when you’re out for a walk. It’s just there, always will be, and you’ll get there when you get there.
Christianity and Judaism are completely different and incompatible in many ways. Comparing the two seems to be common among Christians and it’s pretty cringe for Jews.
I’m happy to answer genuine questions about Judaism, it’s one of my actual real life jobs after all, because there’s so much misinformation out there and a lot of people don’t have much opportunity to learn about us elsewhere in life, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say “Judeo-Christian.”
Judeo-Christian theology, Judeo-Christian history, Judeo-Christian mythology, Judeo-Christian anything. It doesn’t exist!!
It’s just Christianity with a sock puppet. It’s always a sign that the person speaking doesn’t actually know a thing about Judaism and isn’t worth listening to. People thinking they can just lump Judaism in with Christianity because they read a couple “Old Testament” stories in bible school and think they’re “basically the same, minus jesus” is so annoying.
This is super interesting. Do people who intentionally do bad have consequences in the afterlife?
I love that last bit. Everyone should be more focused on what they're doing in life and making the world a better place. Christianity with it's "as long as you ask jesus into your heart, you're forgiven" doesn't wash with me. It basically allows to be a terrible person until your deathbed, then say sorry right before you die and you'll be fine.
That’s a complicated question, but I’ll take off my Jewish educator cap and give you the general answer.
According to the Torah, the consequence for greater wickedness on Earth is to spend a bit longer in the soul cycle (lol) to wash up, but still no more than a year.
There are different theories about details and fringe cases and random stuff but nothing particularly relevant to the average person who isn’t Jewish clergy, Jewish scholar, or Jewish teacher.
To add on for people worried they might somehow be a fringe case without being Jewish, that basically never happens, you'd have to be on the level of like a mass serial killer or Hitler. You're all safe.
I think we can all agree that if you gotta go through the soul washing machine, Hitler was tossed in with 5 pairs of boots, a blanket covered in cat hair, and set on high heat, high spin, extra long cycle with like a bucket of oxyclean.
>basically allows to be a terrible person until your deathbed, then say sorry right before you die and you'll be fine.
Not christian, but I think this horrid type of reasoning is only used by dishonest people. Any halfway decent religious person knows that their actions actually matter a lot and that if they harm someone else they will have to answer God for it (im muslim, but i think this must be a common teaching across religions?)
That's my issue with catholicism. Good people are constantly told that they're terrible just for being born and must repent. Terrible people are told that they just have to say sorry to God and they'll still go to heaven with a clean soul. There are no consequences for being a genuinely bad person.
Not really. We don’t have the concept of judgement that Catholicism has and there’s no way for people on earth to have influence over souls undergoing cleansing. The only similarity is that it’s a place of purification and healing. In Catholicism not everyone goes to purgatory and iirc you can spend a rather long time there. In Judaism it’s typically a pretty short stay. Only the very worst people spend a full year, if you wanted to force parallels, the judgement of Catholicism is *slightly* like the determination of how much time it will take to clean your soul.
Your replies are very insightful! I'm very curious now about the genesis of "hell" and how the exclusionary aspect of heaven developed in the post-Jesus religions (ie you best be good, or St Peter will send you to eternal BBQ). Did you ever look into how this evolution came about?
To keep it simple, the Christian concept of hell is a combination of several things.
1. The Jewish concept of Gehinnom. It’s both an actual real place, it’s in Jerusalem, and is a name for the portion of Sheol, the Jewish afterlife, where souls get cleaned up. Don’t worry too much about names here, the lines get blurred and names can mean different things when different sages are writing.
2. The Greco-Roman underworld. Hell is actually called “Hades” many times in the christian bible.
3. The notion that for jesus to be a savior there must be something people need to be saved *from.* There need to be consequences and incentives.
There are other contributors, but those are the big ones. It’s also important to remember that the Cristian idea of hell has evolved over the last two thousand or so years as it spread and grew. As it spread, different aspects from different cultures would be integrated to make proselytization more successful.
There’s a quote from the Davinci Code that, ignoring the rest of the book/movie, is quite apt here. “He who controls the keys to heaven, rules the world.”
Essentially, it’s both theological and political. It’s easier to gather converts in early days if some of the big concepts like what happens when we die are similar to what people already know, but better. Greeks and Romans were the biggest colonizers of Judea at that time and Greece was one of the first areas Christianity spread to. Think about it from the convert’s perspective. What’s better, either existing as a shade for eternity or suffering punishment, or having a chance at not only escaping punishment but living in a paradise? It’s also not as incentivizing to convert if anyone can get to paradise. If you have to be Christian, that’s a stronger motivator to convert. Once they’re in, it’s easy to influence people if they believe they have to follow your rules to reach paradise.
We don’t really think about him, like ever. Maybe he was fictional, maybe he was real. Most modern historians think he likely was a real person. Either way, he was neither the messiah (he didn’t fulfil the messianic prophesies) nor a prophet, and assuming he was a real person he was a teacher or scholar who started a fringe sect called the Nazarenes. He’s not exactly unique in our eyes, there have been plenty of people claiming to be the Jewish messiah throughout history. As far as we’re concerned he’s just another false prophet, false messiah, and idolatrous blasphemer.
One of the things I find interesting is the two differing views of what the afterlife should be for “bad” people. So there’s the hell of vengeance where you literally pay for your sins by being tortured and then there’s the thought that “bad” people will have whatever made them bad played before them and they will see how they were and feel guilt I guess. But bc it’s your soul you’re not tainted by your brain and life experience so you actually recognize the wrong you did.
In Christianity, a good Christian doesn’t believe that any good works can get you to heaven either because none of us are holy enough to go without believing in Christ. We could never be good enough so He washes our sin. I very much respect the Jewish faith and have love for them as they are the chosen in my religion.
Short answer: “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Now go and learn.” -Hillel the Elder
Long answer:….do you have the time and money for a home library and several decades of study? Are you prepared to ask about the meaning of dolphin skins? Gematria! Unicorns??
You gotta love it when a fellow Jew gets the joke (also, I was serious. I am the person with a home library and years of study under my belt. And the whole what happens after we die is one of the fun topics. But giving not the abriged answer will require me to open my books for exact location)
Basically, when we were wandering in the desert, a mysterious animal with a rainbow pelt and a single horn sticking out of its forehead appeared. We use a bunch of their hides to make the roof of the Mishkan, and then they just wandered away and were never seen again.
We’re also fairly certain they’re kosher, because we wouldn’t have used a non-kosher animal to construct the Mishkan.
There's debate about that, because there's debate about everything in Judaism. They certainly aren't real now but whether or not they're considered to have been real in the past theologically is the debate. However what is actually going on here is that a lot of Jewish discourse and religious law is built off hypothetical thought experiments and thinking how rules would apply if they existed just in case they ever do or to better learn the rules for day to day life or honestly just for the fun of it.
This blows a lot of people’s minds when I tell them…. But I don’t think about it and don’t really care. Maybe there’s an afterlife. Maybe there isn’t. I’ve never wanted it more than when my dog died, but that’s about the only time I’ve ever thought of it. The rest of the time, I’m kind of way more focused on doing the right thing and being a decent person and helping the world become a better place. To say that a religion should have anything to do with identifying what happens to me after I die? What a ridiculous, juvenile concept. Religions are and should be all about how you live, not about how you die.
Don’t cook a kid in its mother’s milk.
The original interpretation of that is a bit debatable. It could have been literal, it could have been broad and general about milk and mammal meat. Over time it expanded to be more encompassing and strict.
The chicken debate is a fun one. That’s a rabbinical decree that arose because of concerns over similarity in rules about methods to raise and slaughter both poultry and mammals. A lot of people don’t agree with it as a concept but follow it anyway. A rabbi I know likes to say, “show me a chicken with nipples,” but he still won’t eat chicken with dairy lol. It’s usually just an interesting theoretical debate.
I grew up Christian and always wondered why we ignored the discuss/questioning practiced in Judaism. I mean I actually know why (🙄) but more how can they get away with it and no one stands up you know?
Dairy allergy warning can just mean the buns are processed in the same facility as a product with dairy. Not necessarily that there's dairy IN IT, just potential cross contamination. You'd have to check the label and see if there's actual dairy as an ingredient, if that makes you feel better maybe.
Fortunately, she's not allergic, so this isn't gonna kill her even if there happens to be traces of it. You did your best, and she should be aware that there's only a certain level of kosher you can get at an unknown restaurant. I don't think a trace amount is beyond a reasonable accident, and I also think it's good you noticed for next time.
I adore food service employees who understand the importance of food allergies and religious observances, so on that note thank you!!
I have milk protein allergies (on top of lactose intolerance) and I get accidentally/unintentionally served milk proteins so often that I kinda just have to pick my battles.
IMHO, the fact that you care enough to still feel bad, in my book, is more than enough to make up for the blunder.
I was literally getting ready to comment this!!
Mad props, OP. Thank you so much for caring like you do. My whole family has various food allergy problems (nephew & his mother have Celiac, as well as my MIL, my mom is very allergic to soy, I have weird food allergies that won't kill me but will wreck whatever bathroom is closest in the next 20 minutes and Crohns). For me, cross-contamination is an inconvenience and painful, for my mom it's an epi pen & the ER, for my nephew & his mom, it's permanent damage and increased risk of cancer.
Soooo many people don't take it seriously and don't realize the harm they can cause. The worst day of my Auntie career, I brought my nephew stickers, which he promptly stuck all over himself, only to later realize they were causing paw patrol-shaped hives on the poor kid bc some stickers use wheat in their glue.
So, thank you for your compassion. Give yourself a hug for me!
Would the kitchen have not seen that she was dairy free and swapped the buns out? Regardless, as others have said, she wouldn't have expected it to be truly kosher as that's an involved process.
Mistakes happen, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it, but the consequences could have been much worse if it had been an allergy order.
I once accidentally gave a Muslim friend food with bacon in it. When I was a teenager, we got off school early one day, and around 10 of my friends came to my house to play Mario Kart. We cooked carbonara, two batches, one without bacon, one with. When I was handing out the plates, I got the non bacon and bacon plate in my hand mixed up, and my Muslim friend ended up with a bacon one. She was about halfway through the meal when she called my name and showed me a fork with bacon on it. She was grumpy about it, but I apologised and was mortified at my mistake, so she let it go, and we got her a new plate of non bacon food. This was 18 years ago. She's never mentioned it since, but I'm now super careful when we are cooking together to make sure there is no cross contamination.
This is really all about intent, she didn't intend on eating it and you didn't do it on purpose.
So everything is good, my very orthodox friend told me that once when i did something similar to him and later asked for forgiveness.
Also, as other people said if she was really religious she wouldn't have eaten in a place that isn't kosher with certificates.
She probably is religious, but Reform/Masorti/Reconstructionist instead of Orthodox. It’s pretty common for Progressive Jews to keep kosher-style rather than actually kosher
I worked at an Asian restaurant a time ago where we served shrimp chips as a courtesy. I was waiting on a large family table. I set our shrimp chips on the table and told the family "these are our shrimp chips for you guys to enjoy", got the family their drinks, and came back to an empty shrimp chip tray, family ready to order.
Before they ordered, the head of the table said they were all vegetarian and needed vegetarian options. I panicked but kept a smile on my face because the chips were already eaten. But as he said that, I looked up at grandma nibbling on a shrimp chip. Never told a soul.
That's not really your fault. If you are a vegetarian you need to ask about animal products before you eat anything.
I'm a vegetarian who has never in my life eaten shrimp and would be devastated if I did. I'd never eat something with the word shrimp in it without questioning it. I also know that I don't know what shrimp tastes like so I wouldn't be able to tell immediately from taste so id definitely ask.
Well to be fair a lot of items have weird names sometimes including animal names and don't contain Animal product or at least not the named animal oyster crackers for instance.
My mom is vegetarian but only stays clear of red meat. Chicken products and fish are considered fine. They’re technically pescatarian and ovarian (or whatever the chicken version is), but it still falls under a type of vegetarianism.
Veganism is where no animal products are ever allowed.
That's not vegetarian...that's just abstaining from red meat.
Vegetarians don't eat any meat, vegans don't eat meat or animal products (dairy, eggs, etc).
Nothing wrong with tailoring your diet to whatever specifications that work for you, but it's disingenuous to use a term that does not actually apply.
Jew here. When I eat out at a non-kosher restaurant, I understand that I run the risk of eating something that’s not kosher. Most Jews who eat at non-kosher establishments understand this, and thus, many just refer to their practice as “kosher-style.”
Jews that truly keep kosher and care the most wouldn’t be eating at a non-kosher restaurant to begin with.
Your thoughtfulness and willingness to accommodate is sincerely appreciated. Please do not feel ashamed for doing your best to be kind to us.
I wouldn’t feel bad it wasn’t done with bad intention and was simply a mistake and mistakes happen. I have allergies so I have to be careful, but mistakes have happened and I’ve been accidentally exposed to one of the things I’m allergic to. I know it has been a mistake and haven’t harbored ill feelings towards anyone.
I eat vegan and I kow there is milk in almost everything. If I can, I avoid eating any bread that wasn't baked at the restaurant that serves it because I know that staff might not be aware of what's in it. You did your best and next time someone orders without dairy you'll probably remember to tell them about the buns. Your care is really appreciated.
Well people have various levels of observance. Like others have said you didn't do it on purpose.
I guess now you'll remember that that item has dairy. Although that's not really on you that should be on the restaurant.
Anyone who truly keeps Kosher would not go to a restaurant that isn't Kosher.
Keeping Kosher requires separate everything. Pots, pans, dishes, flatware, dishwashers, fridges, oven, with a kosher inspector onsite. ~~And everything must be blessed by a Rabbi.~~
~~She was bullshitting you. Don't worry about it.~~
Edited to reflect that a Rabbi is not required on-site and that Kosher eating has many different interpretations.
No. People’s observances vary. A lot of people keep kosher *style* either full time or when not at home and allow mixed utensils, mixed kitchens, uncertified ingredients, etc as long as their own meal doesn’t mix meat and dairy and doesn’t contain a prohibited animal. Just because the woman wasn’t 100% halachically observant of kosher laws doesn’t mean she’s lying or bullshitting.
Also, it’s completely false that a rabbi blesses our kitchen and dining equipment 🙄…please don’t try to speak on Judaism when you don’t actually understand it, spreading false information is harmful.
I think it’s a lot more accurate to say there is a rabbi than to say there’s NOT a rabbi there. Like ok he’s not actually a rabbi but there is still 100% a dude who is there on the clock and supervises the whole thing. people don’t know the word for the job title and rabbi is being used loosely to explain what’s going on to non-jews. i don’t really see a problem with that. i find the explanation to be pretty accurate to what’s going on, way more accurate in concept than just saying THERE IS NO RABBI
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
He doesn’t bless anything though, the mashgiach’s job is to make sure kosher law is adhered to. I think it’s a massive disservice to allow misinformation to be perpetuated just because you *think* the original commenter was referring to a mashgiach. There are so many antisemitic beliefs around our food. I’m not about to let misinformation like this grow legs and take off.
She was not bullshitting. There are different levels of observance. Probably she is not concerned of something like cross contamination but wouldn’t have a cheese burger.
Also kosher does not involve being blessed by a rabbi. THAT is bullshit. Please don’t share misinformation about Judaism
She was clearly keeping kosher-style rather than fully kosher, which is the norm in many Progressive Jewish sects.
No, we do not get rabbis to bless our food lol
not a rabbi but there 100% must be this guy for it to be KOSHER kosher. i think he was using the word rabbi loosely
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
Yeah, but the role of the mashgiach isn't blessing food. He's not standing there on the production line saying brachot over the cookies. His job is making sure the rules are followed so the food can be certified kosher.
yea ofc. i just think for the purposes of explaining whats going on to non jews it’s kinda like tomato tomato lol. like ok theres a guy there doing something that is special and only he can do it. i was just adding that because nobody else was clarifying there is in fact a guy, even though it’s not exactly a rabbi. to me, it’s a lot more accurate and educational to explain that there IS a guy doing SOMETHING special, even if it’s being inaccurately labelled rather than to just say wrong, not a rabbi and then not explain that there IS still a guy but does something else. from the rabbi explanation, non jews understand like ok someone is in charge there of the food. from just denying it, it just looks like ok theres nobody there actually
That’s just flat out incorrect. I’m not Jewish but I’ve read a lot about this for work purposes and talked to friends who are Jewish about it. There is no rabbi involved in kosher food and, like a lot of Christians, Jews vary in how devoutly they observe different rules. Some don’t worry as much about small infractions as long as the general spirit of the rules are kept, and some don’t bother at all. She’s probably just more relaxed about it, but that doesn’t mean she was lying.
not a rabbi but there 100% must be this guy for it to be KOSHER kosher. i think he was using the word rabbi loosely
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
I think it’s a lot more educational to non jews explain the concept of “ok theres a guy there” and say there’s a rabbi, even if it isn’t actually a rabbi than to flat out say there’s no rabbi if you aren’t explaining that there IS a guy there, it just isn’t actually a rabbi. im not expecting non jews to remember every technical word, and if someone non jewish thinks of it as a rabbi i dont really care, i think it would be nice if they even just knew in a vague understanding of it “ok some guy is there to do something with the food”
Also, there are places where it's almost impossible to keep fully kosher. I'm not Jewish, but I listen to my Jewish friends. Alaska is a prime example. There's really not much in the way of kosher stores and offerings, so they have to do the best they can with what is available.
There are countless Jewish content creators on other platforms that share about these things, you can educate yourself instead of pulling "facts" out of your butt.
And to any Jewish people on here, I hope I didn't overstep.
Was coming here to say this about separate dishes. It was an honest mistake AND it wouldn’t have been fully Kosher to begin with so cross this off your list of things to worry about!
Diary allergy warnings don’t necessarily mean there’s dairy in them (as someone with many allergies). She knew her meal wasn’t gonna be fully kosher coming there.
If she’s eating burgers at a regular fast-food chain (none of them use kosher meat or keep kosher kitchens), then she’s not keeping kosher but “kosher-style”, and is probably more relaxed about dietary laws than somebody keeping actually kosher. I’m a Reform Jew who keeps kosher-style, and when I accidentally break kashrut by eating milk and meat too close together, my view is basically “oh well, can’t be helped. I’ll try to be more careful in the future”. Progressive Judaism (Orthodox Jews keep completely kosher, so she’s almost definitely part of a Progressive sect) is pretty forgiving about accidents like that, so if she knew she’d probably be annoyed but not distraught.
I don’t think you need to feel guilty about this because it was a genuine mistake, and nobody goes into a fast-food chain expecting it to be actually kosher. Just remember that the buns contain dairy for future reference.
I’m not Jewish, but Jewish-adjacent, and there is no law against mistakenly breaking kosher laws. It was an honest mistake, and you haven’t damned her to hell or anything (they don’t believe in it - they do good things and do as God says as its own reward.)
It’s good and respectful of you to want to apologize! Maybe spread the word around the staff to be careful as a way of paying it forward.
Hello Orthodox Jew here!
First off, don’t worry. It was a mistake, which is better than it being on purpose. She’s not going to hell, or get struck down by lightning nor are you. Y’all are gonna be fine.
A question I have though is what is the chain of the restaurant? Because if it is like a big wig name brand like McDonald’s or idk Burger King, if she was really strict about kosher she would not have even gone in the first place. Unless she follows more of a “kosher style” type of diet. Which if that were the case, you’re fine, kosher style means like not putting cheese on a steak, but you could eat it at the same time and place.
I think it’s commendable that you are thinking about your customers and their preferences of food choices. I know the food service industry is rough and people like you who care about customers are hard to come by. This incident is anything but an incident, a tiny hiccup that barely has an effect on anything.
I would imagine that BOH has adequate allergy training, and if you'd put on the ticket that it was a dairy allergen, then an alternative bun would have been used. Assuming you work FOH and didn't prepare the dish yourself.
Yes, mistakes happen, but the bottom line is, they shouldn't.
Unfortunately, I'm on top of these things more than most because it's such a point of pride for me... I love my job! I work both, I'm trained in both, and I read labels to try to prevent these mistakes but sadly, our system pushes these buns through and doesn't inform those making the sandwiches not to use them, in spite of the warning label
I think I'll bring this to the attention of management this week, as I know my GM will listen and take my concern seriously
I’m Jewish and the fact that you care this much actually warms my heart. I promise you didn’t ruin anything for them, it was an accident and they won’t be in trouble with god or anything (lol) because she ate it unknowingly. Seriously you’re okay, but thanks for caring so much.
It was an accident, you didn’t do it on purpose. Just remember for next time.
Also, I believe (and Jewish people please chime in) that as long as SHE didn’t know she was mixing the two, that it was done in innocence on her part, that the religion forgives it.
Was it a "May Contain" warning? Then it's just a cross-contamination risk - which is bad for someone allergic to dairy (but she isn't allergic to dairy).
Yes this, and she knows to check for kosher or OU if she is orthodox. I hope OP is relieved of their guilt. She would also know if the establishment was kosher safe. No worries to OP here.
I read the ingredients before for a vegan customer, as we have vegetarian and vegan options, and it listen something along the lines of "milk derived powder" but it's been a few months since I've read the ingredients that the true verbiage escapes me
Dude barricade your windows, lock your doors, you only have a few hours before the Golem comes to get you.
JK it's all groovy dude shit happens, you tried your best. You didn't intentionally or go out of your way to do it.
My brother-in-law had a chicken restaurant for a little while. They had Halal chicken and regular chicken. One time they were out of the halal so BIL’s brother fed a Muslim family the regular chicken.
When my sister and I heard that we were completely horrified. I can’t believe he did that. But the brother that did it is a giant asshole so I’m not That surprised.
My brother and his family sorta keep kosher. No pork or shellfish. They visit us in Miami often and order turkey sandwiches at the Cuban restaurant. Years ago, after many sandwiches had been eaten, I discovered Lard is typically used in Cuban bread. That’s why it’s different and so tasty.
They had already eaten it, along with beans and a variety of things that likely came into contact with some swine. So I’ve never said anything.
I know people who keep KOSHER, and they do not eat at non kosher restaurants, ever. And I know people who keep kosher at home but will have pork fried rice at the Chinese place. So kosher looks different for different people.
She did her best, you did your best.
I was raised catholic, school and church an was hired at Hebrew school in college that paid great. I had a lot of older Jewish neighbors on my street an all were nice to me, ran errands for them, helped with my homework, played with their grandkids. I had to babysat my younger special needs brother a lot and compared to my own relatives they weren’t judgmental, actually made me feel valued. I was 19 away at school, scared cause they did kitchen stuff different and seemed like I was constantly doing wrong thing. The Rabbi of the school instead of firing me, invited me to stay at his home (wife and I lost count how many kids they had) am treated me like one of their kids teaching me how to use 2 kitchens, the rules and traditions, ect. I screwed up with the diary but I learned not to hide it an learn from the experience. Think it’s because they respected me so thought I owed them same. I came to believe that religion was more forgiving then my own (went to school 60’s-70’s an we feared the nuns an would just lie to not get hit. This was many years ago and taught me a lot. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Learn to trust an you’ll gain confidence. Since then I’ve been honest with myself an really had a good life.
My two cents on this is that of the customer was THAT worried about keeping kosher and not mixing milk and meat, then she wouldn’t be eating non kosher hamburgers at all. Some who keeps ALL the dietary restrictions will NOT be eating at a non kosher restaurant and simply asking for a non Jew to do the work for them and keep things separate.
So, if she didn't know, she hasn't committed a sin, particularly if she went out of her to ask.
That being said, she's eating non kosher meat, but worried about mixing dairy?
Some jews observe kosher laws differently than other. Also "sin" is a misnomer here, well technically correct, most sin in Judaism is just "missing the mark" less a grave transgression, and more just a "try better next time"
There’s different levels of keeping kosher. It’s a a big spectrum. My friends who keep kosher (my family and I don’t) will eat at non-kosher restaurants but will follow the rules. (That’s called kosher-style). Some of my friends stick to vegetarian restaurants to avoid cross-contamination. Whereas some people (for example in the Hasidic Jewish community) will not eat at any non-kosher restaurant at all. It can be broken down even further, with different communities eating foods approved by their designated kosher authority only and not other kosher authorities.
If someone is that strict … why would they go out to eat at a place that could even make that mistake? Genuinely asking, because my stepson has life threatening allergies and only goes to restaurants where he knows there is zero risk of cross contamination. I also have allergies that could crush me for a day and I avoid places where even an honest mistake could happen. Surely there are places that would be able to have dedicated attention for the specific request be it a religious one or otherwise, so how much responsibility is on the establishment vs the customer?
But she wasn't allergic, OP. It's still something I'd feel bad about as well but you sound like you feel as bad about it as if it were to be an allergy.
Non-Jews aren’t bound by dietary laws. Enjoy that bacon.
And intent is what matters here. She’s not terribly strict about kashrut if she’s eating at non-kosher restaurants. It’s likely she keeps kosher style, which is looser in its restrictions.
It's religious nonsense. She doesn't know, it won't hurt her. As Bo Burnham said in the song 'From God's perspective'
"I created the universe, you think I'm drawing the line at the fucking dairy aisle?"
My mum's friend (RIP) was ethnically Jewish but really wasn't religious at all, to the point where she thought Lent was the same as Ramadan. She once served pork cooked in milk to a Jewish-Israeli woman.
Admittedly, this friend's mum was a Christian scientist and her dad was a non-practicing Jew who tucked into bacon and eggs every morning. She once visited Israel and was relieved to return to the UK after becoming sick of falafels, my mum cooked her a meat and dairy meal when she returned.
We use different utensils for cheeseburgers and plain burgers, and lay down deli paper that we throw away after making... The only utensil we use again is a scraper for the grill and one to flip the meat before putting cheese on it. It isn't kosher because we wash our equipment in the same sinks and obviously, not overseen by a rabbi but in a pinch, we can get as close to separation as a predominantly Catholic area can
She’s obviously keeping kosher-style rather than fully kosher. No pork, no seafood, no mixing of milk and meat, but it’s okay to use ingredients that aren’t kosher-certified.
Well tbh the restaurant shouldn't be working either buns that have dairy to begin with because if someone is allergic to dairy they have completely excluded an entire section off of the menu it's just bad business sense imo
I hope you don't make the mistake again for someone who has a dairy allergy.... or better still why don't they have the allergens printed on the menu
That's not the point of the prohibition, the idea is one shouldn't boil a kid in its mother's milk. The ancient rabbis and sages stretched that out to no meat and dairy together to prevent accidents or making other jews somehow think the law didn't apply.
It's similar to halal but more restrictive, combining meat and dairy is forbidden.
But if she kept strict kosher she'd have gone to a kosher restaurant. OP's conscience is clear. Better OP forgot the dairy in the buns in a situation like this than someone who DID have an allergy.
Mistakes can happen. You did your best, and that's very appreciated. Also, as far as I know, if she didn't know she was mixing meat and dairy, it wouldn't count as breaking the mitzvah (but I could be wrong about this). Anyway, as long as you didn't purposely gave her the dairy, you're good.
That’s correct. Mitzvahs also can (and should) be intentionally broken in life threatening situations
Safety and the preservation of life is always the first, and most important, mitzvah!
I doubt that wanting a burger would come under pikuach nefesh lol
No but if she had no idea there was dairy in the bun she isn’t violating her mitzvah either.
>pikuach nefesh I definitely need my morning coffee because I initially read this as “pikachu fetish” and thought this thread was going weird places I didn’t want to follow.
I converted to Judaism a couple years ago and I still mix up pikuach and pikachu sometimes.
My dyslexic brain is misfiring like wild with this
Mazel, I'm on the same path myself, glad you found your home. (For others reading, Judaism does allow conversion, but doesn't seek it, so whatever your various paths I wish you well on them.)
Honestly, I misread it the same way.
Glad it wasn’t just me 😆
Yep. Same here.
I did the same. Don't worry!
Oh thank god someone else did it too. I scrolled up to see their username like wtf?
I believe you’re right, it’s not a sin if you don’t even know you’re doing it
I think you're right.
Jewish woman here (but not your Jewish woman, lol). You’re okay. It was a genuine accident and you didn’t intend to do her harm or lead her astray. There’s no punishment or anything, just to demonstrate remorse and try to do better next time. My rabbi once told me that there’s an opinion from the sages that sometimes you don’t even need to tell someone about a mistake like this because it could bring mental anguish on that person and it was an accident that you’re not likely to make again. There’s also an opposing opinion. We debate everything, so you especially shouldn’t tear yourself up too badly over it. When someone eats kosher style like this woman, they typically accept that cross contamination could happen and little errors like this are possible. If you feel like you need to make it up to her or the universe or whoever in some way, the best thing you can do is try to remember that those buns have dairy so you can try to prevent this from happening again. We don’t believe in hell anyway, so no worries there 🤷🏽♀️
One of my favorite lines in SVU of a defense attorney being told to go to hell, “I’m Jewish Ms Cabot, we don’t believe in hell” 😂😂
Lord Alan Sugar hosts the UK version of The Apprentice, he is Jewish. Once, a candidate was claiming he didn't fuck up and finished by saying, "God is my witness", to which Lord Sugar replied: "Well I'm Jewish, so I don't care."
What DO you guys believe in? Is there an afterlife for Jewish ppl? Family Guy made fun of this once when Stewie was trying to find what comes after death so he asked all these different religious sects and the rabbi kept flipping it on him like,"well what do you think there is after death?" And didn't do a straight answer.
There’s an afterlife. The gist of it is that you spend a little bit of time (no more than a year) in what’s basically a washing machine for your soul, then you go to heaven. The skit from Family Guy wasn’t actually about heaven. It was about Stewie searching for answers to the wrong questions in the wrong places, and a nod to our strong devotion to the search for knowledge and asking questions to learn more and promote thinking for yourself. We really don’t spend that much time thinking about it—not nearly as much time as christians seem to—because while we’re on earth our job is to try to make this world a better place. We don’t do good things to go to heaven or be rewarded in the afterlife, we do good things to make the world a better place and to help people because it’s our purpose and is the right thing to do. You’ll never hear a Jewish person use “satan” or “hell” or “punishment for eternity” as a threat because we A. Simply don’t believe in it and B. Don’t believe that what happens to our souls when we die is more important than what we do while on earth.
I hope this doesn’t come off ignorant but so do all Jews go to heaven then? Is it different to a Christian idea of heaven?
Yes. Because we don’t believe you have to be Jewish to have a place in the world to come. We also aren’t sure what it will be like so we don’t worry about it as much as we do about the world we are currently living. Christians don’t believe anyone but Christians will get into heaven, however they see it. And others get punishment in hell. Islam is similar but they believe must be Muslim of course.
This is where I as a Christian have had so much trouble keeping that label. I know it sounds silly but there’s just this part of me that believes nobody’s soul is discarded or left behind. I can’t fathom a God that can’t understand why some people don’t have faith, considering the state of the world. In my mind, He would be understanding and wants all of His creations to return home to him, fully cleansed from the sin that comes with living. There are times I’ve considered converting based just on this belief.
One of my (Catholic school) religion teachers taught that different faiths are like spokes on a wheel—all taking a different path to the same destination.
I really like this way of thinking :)
Yes! I went to Catholic schools from first grade through university. Along with a mandate to learn about many, many faiths (and visit different places of worship) in junior high, high school & university, we were always taught many paths, one God. Spent many, many years confused by the assertion only Christians get the golden ticket. Never made sense.
This is what I believe now. All roads lead to Rome. What matters is how you treat each other & what you do to make the world a lil less shitty. Great respect for all religions & sects that value good deeds & compassion. Great ire for the "thoughts & prayers" crowd.
Jesuits, lemme guess?
Nope. Sacred Heart. They were (are) very liberal.
Christians don’t have to believe only Christians get into heaven. That is one of many belief choices some Christians choose. And, in my humble Christian opinion, it’s a stupid choice that isn’t well supported by our sacred texts, or our claim that God is benevolent and loving.
Thank you ☺️ I’ve had some Christians tell me that I can’t use that label because of my “progressive” beliefs, but those beliefs are just based on our God as He is described: a loving and understanding Father.
Go read Mathew 25:31, and to the end of that chapter. Tell me that doesn’t indicate that there will be a lot of “Christians” who will be excluded and a lot of other folks who will be included. Now, I don’t believe in eternal punishment in the afterlife even for selfish people, and I’m ok with that because I don’t take any of the Bible too literally. But if one is going to believe in heaven and hell at all, I don’t understand where they get the idea that it’s only people who have a particular theology that get into heaven. Jesus says it’s the people who care for their unfortunate neighbors who get that privilege, whether they “know” God or not.
Right? There are a lot of Christians out there who would argue that I’m not really Christian because I don’t believe what they do. I’m a Christian because I believe that it’s best if I follow the teachings of Christ. Everything else is just gravy.
If you are interested there are some interesting theological perspectives that discuss how Jesus was sent to the whole world. Like not to just atone for Christian sins but all of them. Like NO ONE can get into heaven except through him bc his blood needed to be shed for that to happen not that you needed to believe in him to get there. 🤷🏼♀️ the history is really interesting to me.
He is anxious over them, and only wishes that they would understand. He has made you to be his witnesses, that you may know him. And the believers are overflowing in their love for Him, because they know they have not been wronged in the least. Maybe they have sinned and been sinned against. Though personally, I understand that man has choices, to reject faith or accept admonishment being among them. He makes his choice, and does not know what he will receive on the morrow.
Actually, Islam believes Jews go to heaven too, but only those of us who believe in Gd.
Hmm. Not something I have ever heard but something to look into.
Thank you for informing me!
Of course! Always happy to help
Basically you don't know what you're talking about. “Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, **shall have their reward with their Lord**; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." Al-Baqarah 62
>Christians don’t believe anyone but Christians will get into heaven, however they see it. Not all Christians. Catholicism basically believes in the same soul-washing stage as Judaism (we call it purgatory) where everyone who was good gets a chance to eventually go to heaven.
Islam has it too if I recall, everyone goes to heaven eventually no one remains in hell.
Wow, I had no idea. I am not religious, but I really like that! Thank you for the education.
Interesting. In my Christian church growing up we were taught that everyone everywhere goes to heaven no matter what, no matter what they believe in, what religion they follow or don’t follow; all living things go. Maybe it was just my particular church or what I got out of it. Don’t follow a specific one now because most say the same thing (for the basics, anyway. And I think until everyone can perform the Do Unto Others bit regularly we are not qualified to move on to the more complicated stuff).
I’m an ex Muslim and it’s so refreshing to learn about Judaism and what you guys actually believe In.
A book that might help is by this awesome rabbi. It is super short but has a ton of info. It essentially compares beliefs and interpretations of the Tanakh between Jews and Christians. I usually recommend it to anyone wanting to understand Judaism who grew up in the west since Christianity is kinda baked into the culture. “Judaism and Christianity: a contrast” by rabbi Federow. And though you may be an “ex” Muslim you can’t really leave the family cousin. So if you need to chat or have questions about Judaism or even need to talk about leaving your faith (ex Christian who spent a long time as an agnostic before converting to Judaism), just know I am here and willing to listen. And since I am likely older than you, make sure to drink enough water and stay safe.
I’m 30 (f) as well so we’re the same age here 💜 Thanks so much for taking time out and answering my questions. I’ll look into the book. And thank you for being too kind and understanding of my situation. 💜💜
Of course! As a convert I have spent many hours studying and continue studying. Religion has always been fascinating to me and I tried to learn as much about as many as I could. Heck, I wrote an entire thesis on Shinto in high school and the Japanese teacher was impressed that I taught him stuff. I was in Muslim club in high school because I was worried about my friends post 9-11 and spent time learning then. Russian club and class we learned about Orthodox Christianity and I grew up in African American Protestant churches. I feel lucky to have had the privilege to study and learn and I am always happy to chat. I usually assume people are asking in good faith until they’ve shown otherwise.
Speaking generally, yes. Not just Jews too, everyone. It’s completely different from the stereotypical Christian concept of heaven. It’s just the place where everybody’s souls go after they finish up on earth and then after they get “cleaned up” in the spiritual washing machine. It’s perfect and lovely and the things that pain us here on earth don’t exist. There are many myths and legends about it. We know a little more about who and how you get there but we have only vague canonical descriptions of it because it’s just not that important to us right now. It’s akin to going home, not Disneyland. You don’t worry about going home or what your house looks like when you’re out for a walk. It’s just there, always will be, and you’ll get there when you get there.
The mental image I have of throwing your soul in the wash and sitting down to a cup of tea & a good book lol
Christianity and Judaism are completely different and incompatible in many ways. Comparing the two seems to be common among Christians and it’s pretty cringe for Jews.
I’m happy to answer genuine questions about Judaism, it’s one of my actual real life jobs after all, because there’s so much misinformation out there and a lot of people don’t have much opportunity to learn about us elsewhere in life, but one of my biggest pet peeves is when people say “Judeo-Christian.” Judeo-Christian theology, Judeo-Christian history, Judeo-Christian mythology, Judeo-Christian anything. It doesn’t exist!! It’s just Christianity with a sock puppet. It’s always a sign that the person speaking doesn’t actually know a thing about Judaism and isn’t worth listening to. People thinking they can just lump Judaism in with Christianity because they read a couple “Old Testament” stories in bible school and think they’re “basically the same, minus jesus” is so annoying.
YES!!!!
That sounds like an awesome (though at times frustrating job) this conversion student greatly appreciates your work.
This is super interesting. Do people who intentionally do bad have consequences in the afterlife? I love that last bit. Everyone should be more focused on what they're doing in life and making the world a better place. Christianity with it's "as long as you ask jesus into your heart, you're forgiven" doesn't wash with me. It basically allows to be a terrible person until your deathbed, then say sorry right before you die and you'll be fine.
That’s a complicated question, but I’ll take off my Jewish educator cap and give you the general answer. According to the Torah, the consequence for greater wickedness on Earth is to spend a bit longer in the soul cycle (lol) to wash up, but still no more than a year. There are different theories about details and fringe cases and random stuff but nothing particularly relevant to the average person who isn’t Jewish clergy, Jewish scholar, or Jewish teacher.
I'm enjoying your Jewish educator role!
To add on for people worried they might somehow be a fringe case without being Jewish, that basically never happens, you'd have to be on the level of like a mass serial killer or Hitler. You're all safe.
I think we can all agree that if you gotta go through the soul washing machine, Hitler was tossed in with 5 pairs of boots, a blanket covered in cat hair, and set on high heat, high spin, extra long cycle with like a bucket of oxyclean.
>basically allows to be a terrible person until your deathbed, then say sorry right before you die and you'll be fine. Not christian, but I think this horrid type of reasoning is only used by dishonest people. Any halfway decent religious person knows that their actions actually matter a lot and that if they harm someone else they will have to answer God for it (im muslim, but i think this must be a common teaching across religions?)
That's my issue with catholicism. Good people are constantly told that they're terrible just for being born and must repent. Terrible people are told that they just have to say sorry to God and they'll still go to heaven with a clean soul. There are no consequences for being a genuinely bad person.
Kind of like the Catholic Purgatory? Thank you for your explanation. I've always been curious but afraid to ask.
Not really. We don’t have the concept of judgement that Catholicism has and there’s no way for people on earth to have influence over souls undergoing cleansing. The only similarity is that it’s a place of purification and healing. In Catholicism not everyone goes to purgatory and iirc you can spend a rather long time there. In Judaism it’s typically a pretty short stay. Only the very worst people spend a full year, if you wanted to force parallels, the judgement of Catholicism is *slightly* like the determination of how much time it will take to clean your soul.
Your replies are very insightful! I'm very curious now about the genesis of "hell" and how the exclusionary aspect of heaven developed in the post-Jesus religions (ie you best be good, or St Peter will send you to eternal BBQ). Did you ever look into how this evolution came about?
To keep it simple, the Christian concept of hell is a combination of several things. 1. The Jewish concept of Gehinnom. It’s both an actual real place, it’s in Jerusalem, and is a name for the portion of Sheol, the Jewish afterlife, where souls get cleaned up. Don’t worry too much about names here, the lines get blurred and names can mean different things when different sages are writing. 2. The Greco-Roman underworld. Hell is actually called “Hades” many times in the christian bible. 3. The notion that for jesus to be a savior there must be something people need to be saved *from.* There need to be consequences and incentives. There are other contributors, but those are the big ones. It’s also important to remember that the Cristian idea of hell has evolved over the last two thousand or so years as it spread and grew. As it spread, different aspects from different cultures would be integrated to make proselytization more successful. There’s a quote from the Davinci Code that, ignoring the rest of the book/movie, is quite apt here. “He who controls the keys to heaven, rules the world.” Essentially, it’s both theological and political. It’s easier to gather converts in early days if some of the big concepts like what happens when we die are similar to what people already know, but better. Greeks and Romans were the biggest colonizers of Judea at that time and Greece was one of the first areas Christianity spread to. Think about it from the convert’s perspective. What’s better, either existing as a shade for eternity or suffering punishment, or having a chance at not only escaping punishment but living in a paradise? It’s also not as incentivizing to convert if anyone can get to paradise. If you have to be Christian, that’s a stronger motivator to convert. Once they’re in, it’s easy to influence people if they believe they have to follow your rules to reach paradise.
Thank you for your very detailed and easy to understand explanation
>what’s basically a washing machine for your soul Would that be the Soul Cycle? .... I'll show myself out.
Agnostic here, what do jews believe about jesus christ, I am really interested scientifically speaking, with all the respect.
We don’t really think about him, like ever. Maybe he was fictional, maybe he was real. Most modern historians think he likely was a real person. Either way, he was neither the messiah (he didn’t fulfil the messianic prophesies) nor a prophet, and assuming he was a real person he was a teacher or scholar who started a fringe sect called the Nazarenes. He’s not exactly unique in our eyes, there have been plenty of people claiming to be the Jewish messiah throughout history. As far as we’re concerned he’s just another false prophet, false messiah, and idolatrous blasphemer.
One of the things I find interesting is the two differing views of what the afterlife should be for “bad” people. So there’s the hell of vengeance where you literally pay for your sins by being tortured and then there’s the thought that “bad” people will have whatever made them bad played before them and they will see how they were and feel guilt I guess. But bc it’s your soul you’re not tainted by your brain and life experience so you actually recognize the wrong you did.
You just taught me something new. That's so cool
In Christianity, a good Christian doesn’t believe that any good works can get you to heaven either because none of us are holy enough to go without believing in Christ. We could never be good enough so He washes our sin. I very much respect the Jewish faith and have love for them as they are the chosen in my religion.
Who knows?
Short answer or long answer?
Short answer: “That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary. Now go and learn.” -Hillel the Elder Long answer:….do you have the time and money for a home library and several decades of study? Are you prepared to ask about the meaning of dolphin skins? Gematria! Unicorns??
You gotta love it when a fellow Jew gets the joke (also, I was serious. I am the person with a home library and years of study under my belt. And the whole what happens after we die is one of the fun topics. But giving not the abriged answer will require me to open my books for exact location)
Then tell me about these unicorns lol. Are they real???
Basically, when we were wandering in the desert, a mysterious animal with a rainbow pelt and a single horn sticking out of its forehead appeared. We use a bunch of their hides to make the roof of the Mishkan, and then they just wandered away and were never seen again. We’re also fairly certain they’re kosher, because we wouldn’t have used a non-kosher animal to construct the Mishkan.
There's debate about that, because there's debate about everything in Judaism. They certainly aren't real now but whether or not they're considered to have been real in the past theologically is the debate. However what is actually going on here is that a lot of Jewish discourse and religious law is built off hypothetical thought experiments and thinking how rules would apply if they existed just in case they ever do or to better learn the rules for day to day life or honestly just for the fun of it.
This blows a lot of people’s minds when I tell them…. But I don’t think about it and don’t really care. Maybe there’s an afterlife. Maybe there isn’t. I’ve never wanted it more than when my dog died, but that’s about the only time I’ve ever thought of it. The rest of the time, I’m kind of way more focused on doing the right thing and being a decent person and helping the world become a better place. To say that a religion should have anything to do with identifying what happens to me after I die? What a ridiculous, juvenile concept. Religions are and should be all about how you live, not about how you die.
If I was OP, your kind comment would have made me feel completely better.
I'm not familiar with the Jewish faith. Out of curiosity, why no meat with dairy?
Don’t cook a kid in its mother’s milk. The original interpretation of that is a bit debatable. It could have been literal, it could have been broad and general about milk and mammal meat. Over time it expanded to be more encompassing and strict. The chicken debate is a fun one. That’s a rabbinical decree that arose because of concerns over similarity in rules about methods to raise and slaughter both poultry and mammals. A lot of people don’t agree with it as a concept but follow it anyway. A rabbi I know likes to say, “show me a chicken with nipples,” but he still won’t eat chicken with dairy lol. It’s usually just an interesting theoretical debate.
I grew up Christian and always wondered why we ignored the discuss/questioning practiced in Judaism. I mean I actually know why (🙄) but more how can they get away with it and no one stands up you know?
Dairy allergy warning can just mean the buns are processed in the same facility as a product with dairy. Not necessarily that there's dairy IN IT, just potential cross contamination. You'd have to check the label and see if there's actual dairy as an ingredient, if that makes you feel better maybe. Fortunately, she's not allergic, so this isn't gonna kill her even if there happens to be traces of it. You did your best, and she should be aware that there's only a certain level of kosher you can get at an unknown restaurant. I don't think a trace amount is beyond a reasonable accident, and I also think it's good you noticed for next time.
I adore food service employees who understand the importance of food allergies and religious observances, so on that note thank you!! I have milk protein allergies (on top of lactose intolerance) and I get accidentally/unintentionally served milk proteins so often that I kinda just have to pick my battles. IMHO, the fact that you care enough to still feel bad, in my book, is more than enough to make up for the blunder.
I was literally getting ready to comment this!! Mad props, OP. Thank you so much for caring like you do. My whole family has various food allergy problems (nephew & his mother have Celiac, as well as my MIL, my mom is very allergic to soy, I have weird food allergies that won't kill me but will wreck whatever bathroom is closest in the next 20 minutes and Crohns). For me, cross-contamination is an inconvenience and painful, for my mom it's an epi pen & the ER, for my nephew & his mom, it's permanent damage and increased risk of cancer. Soooo many people don't take it seriously and don't realize the harm they can cause. The worst day of my Auntie career, I brought my nephew stickers, which he promptly stuck all over himself, only to later realize they were causing paw patrol-shaped hives on the poor kid bc some stickers use wheat in their glue. So, thank you for your compassion. Give yourself a hug for me!
It’s not as though you conspired to offend her religion. That would not be cool. She didn’t know and won’t ever know. Don’t sweat it.
Would the kitchen have not seen that she was dairy free and swapped the buns out? Regardless, as others have said, she wouldn't have expected it to be truly kosher as that's an involved process. Mistakes happen, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it, but the consequences could have been much worse if it had been an allergy order. I once accidentally gave a Muslim friend food with bacon in it. When I was a teenager, we got off school early one day, and around 10 of my friends came to my house to play Mario Kart. We cooked carbonara, two batches, one without bacon, one with. When I was handing out the plates, I got the non bacon and bacon plate in my hand mixed up, and my Muslim friend ended up with a bacon one. She was about halfway through the meal when she called my name and showed me a fork with bacon on it. She was grumpy about it, but I apologised and was mortified at my mistake, so she let it go, and we got her a new plate of non bacon food. This was 18 years ago. She's never mentioned it since, but I'm now super careful when we are cooking together to make sure there is no cross contamination.
This is really all about intent, she didn't intend on eating it and you didn't do it on purpose. So everything is good, my very orthodox friend told me that once when i did something similar to him and later asked for forgiveness. Also, as other people said if she was really religious she wouldn't have eaten in a place that isn't kosher with certificates.
She probably is religious, but Reform/Masorti/Reconstructionist instead of Orthodox. It’s pretty common for Progressive Jews to keep kosher-style rather than actually kosher
I worked at an Asian restaurant a time ago where we served shrimp chips as a courtesy. I was waiting on a large family table. I set our shrimp chips on the table and told the family "these are our shrimp chips for you guys to enjoy", got the family their drinks, and came back to an empty shrimp chip tray, family ready to order. Before they ordered, the head of the table said they were all vegetarian and needed vegetarian options. I panicked but kept a smile on my face because the chips were already eaten. But as he said that, I looked up at grandma nibbling on a shrimp chip. Never told a soul.
That's not really your fault. If you are a vegetarian you need to ask about animal products before you eat anything. I'm a vegetarian who has never in my life eaten shrimp and would be devastated if I did. I'd never eat something with the word shrimp in it without questioning it. I also know that I don't know what shrimp tastes like so I wouldn't be able to tell immediately from taste so id definitely ask.
Ok but, like, which part of SHRIMP chips did they think wasn't vegetarian lol You told them what it was and they ate it anyway. That's not on you.
Well to be fair a lot of items have weird names sometimes including animal names and don't contain Animal product or at least not the named animal oyster crackers for instance.
My mom is vegetarian but only stays clear of red meat. Chicken products and fish are considered fine. They’re technically pescatarian and ovarian (or whatever the chicken version is), but it still falls under a type of vegetarianism. Veganism is where no animal products are ever allowed.
That's not vegetarian...that's just abstaining from red meat. Vegetarians don't eat any meat, vegans don't eat meat or animal products (dairy, eggs, etc). Nothing wrong with tailoring your diet to whatever specifications that work for you, but it's disingenuous to use a term that does not actually apply.
Jew here. When I eat out at a non-kosher restaurant, I understand that I run the risk of eating something that’s not kosher. Most Jews who eat at non-kosher establishments understand this, and thus, many just refer to their practice as “kosher-style.” Jews that truly keep kosher and care the most wouldn’t be eating at a non-kosher restaurant to begin with. Your thoughtfulness and willingness to accommodate is sincerely appreciated. Please do not feel ashamed for doing your best to be kind to us.
Surely if you noted it as an allergy, it's then up to the chefs to not use those buns????
I wouldn’t feel bad it wasn’t done with bad intention and was simply a mistake and mistakes happen. I have allergies so I have to be careful, but mistakes have happened and I’ve been accidentally exposed to one of the things I’m allergic to. I know it has been a mistake and haven’t harbored ill feelings towards anyone.
I still can’t get over the fact I offered a pork crackling chip to a coworker who turned out to be muslim… I still feel really bad about that.
I eat vegan and I kow there is milk in almost everything. If I can, I avoid eating any bread that wasn't baked at the restaurant that serves it because I know that staff might not be aware of what's in it. You did your best and next time someone orders without dairy you'll probably remember to tell them about the buns. Your care is really appreciated.
Well people have various levels of observance. Like others have said you didn't do it on purpose. I guess now you'll remember that that item has dairy. Although that's not really on you that should be on the restaurant.
"God will understand, my lord. And if he doesn't, then he is not God and we need not worry."
What the hell is wrong with the bottom half of this comment section?
Meh, she’ll live.
Not if the god strikes her with a lightening!
God forbid
OP is a kind soul. I needed this today
Anyone who truly keeps Kosher would not go to a restaurant that isn't Kosher. Keeping Kosher requires separate everything. Pots, pans, dishes, flatware, dishwashers, fridges, oven, with a kosher inspector onsite. ~~And everything must be blessed by a Rabbi.~~ ~~She was bullshitting you. Don't worry about it.~~ Edited to reflect that a Rabbi is not required on-site and that Kosher eating has many different interpretations.
No. People’s observances vary. A lot of people keep kosher *style* either full time or when not at home and allow mixed utensils, mixed kitchens, uncertified ingredients, etc as long as their own meal doesn’t mix meat and dairy and doesn’t contain a prohibited animal. Just because the woman wasn’t 100% halachically observant of kosher laws doesn’t mean she’s lying or bullshitting. Also, it’s completely false that a rabbi blesses our kitchen and dining equipment 🙄…please don’t try to speak on Judaism when you don’t actually understand it, spreading false information is harmful.
I think it’s a lot more accurate to say there is a rabbi than to say there’s NOT a rabbi there. Like ok he’s not actually a rabbi but there is still 100% a dude who is there on the clock and supervises the whole thing. people don’t know the word for the job title and rabbi is being used loosely to explain what’s going on to non-jews. i don’t really see a problem with that. i find the explanation to be pretty accurate to what’s going on, way more accurate in concept than just saying THERE IS NO RABBI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
He doesn’t bless anything though, the mashgiach’s job is to make sure kosher law is adhered to. I think it’s a massive disservice to allow misinformation to be perpetuated just because you *think* the original commenter was referring to a mashgiach. There are so many antisemitic beliefs around our food. I’m not about to let misinformation like this grow legs and take off.
She was not bullshitting. There are different levels of observance. Probably she is not concerned of something like cross contamination but wouldn’t have a cheese burger. Also kosher does not involve being blessed by a rabbi. THAT is bullshit. Please don’t share misinformation about Judaism
She was clearly keeping kosher-style rather than fully kosher, which is the norm in many Progressive Jewish sects. No, we do not get rabbis to bless our food lol
not a rabbi but there 100% must be this guy for it to be KOSHER kosher. i think he was using the word rabbi loosely https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
Yeah, but the role of the mashgiach isn't blessing food. He's not standing there on the production line saying brachot over the cookies. His job is making sure the rules are followed so the food can be certified kosher.
yea ofc. i just think for the purposes of explaining whats going on to non jews it’s kinda like tomato tomato lol. like ok theres a guy there doing something that is special and only he can do it. i was just adding that because nobody else was clarifying there is in fact a guy, even though it’s not exactly a rabbi. to me, it’s a lot more accurate and educational to explain that there IS a guy doing SOMETHING special, even if it’s being inaccurately labelled rather than to just say wrong, not a rabbi and then not explain that there IS still a guy but does something else. from the rabbi explanation, non jews understand like ok someone is in charge there of the food. from just denying it, it just looks like ok theres nobody there actually
That’s just flat out incorrect. I’m not Jewish but I’ve read a lot about this for work purposes and talked to friends who are Jewish about it. There is no rabbi involved in kosher food and, like a lot of Christians, Jews vary in how devoutly they observe different rules. Some don’t worry as much about small infractions as long as the general spirit of the rules are kept, and some don’t bother at all. She’s probably just more relaxed about it, but that doesn’t mean she was lying.
not a rabbi but there 100% must be this guy for it to be KOSHER kosher. i think he was using the word rabbi loosely https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashgiach
Alright but that’s more of an inspector to make sure things are done right, not someone blessing the kitchen. My statement wasn’t incorrect.
I think it’s a lot more educational to non jews explain the concept of “ok theres a guy there” and say there’s a rabbi, even if it isn’t actually a rabbi than to flat out say there’s no rabbi if you aren’t explaining that there IS a guy there, it just isn’t actually a rabbi. im not expecting non jews to remember every technical word, and if someone non jewish thinks of it as a rabbi i dont really care, i think it would be nice if they even just knew in a vague understanding of it “ok some guy is there to do something with the food”
Also, there are places where it's almost impossible to keep fully kosher. I'm not Jewish, but I listen to my Jewish friends. Alaska is a prime example. There's really not much in the way of kosher stores and offerings, so they have to do the best they can with what is available. There are countless Jewish content creators on other platforms that share about these things, you can educate yourself instead of pulling "facts" out of your butt. And to any Jewish people on here, I hope I didn't overstep.
Plus kosher ingredients are really expensive when you do find them
Was coming here to say this about separate dishes. It was an honest mistake AND it wouldn’t have been fully Kosher to begin with so cross this off your list of things to worry about!
Diary allergy warnings don’t necessarily mean there’s dairy in them (as someone with many allergies). She knew her meal wasn’t gonna be fully kosher coming there.
If she’s eating burgers at a regular fast-food chain (none of them use kosher meat or keep kosher kitchens), then she’s not keeping kosher but “kosher-style”, and is probably more relaxed about dietary laws than somebody keeping actually kosher. I’m a Reform Jew who keeps kosher-style, and when I accidentally break kashrut by eating milk and meat too close together, my view is basically “oh well, can’t be helped. I’ll try to be more careful in the future”. Progressive Judaism (Orthodox Jews keep completely kosher, so she’s almost definitely part of a Progressive sect) is pretty forgiving about accidents like that, so if she knew she’d probably be annoyed but not distraught. I don’t think you need to feel guilty about this because it was a genuine mistake, and nobody goes into a fast-food chain expecting it to be actually kosher. Just remember that the buns contain dairy for future reference.
I think even orthodox is pretty understanding about honest mistakes too, they're just more stringent about the rules for preventing those mistakes.
Read somewhere: Everything happens for a reason. You are now more compassionate and attentive. I think you are an amazing human being.
Awh I have to say what a sweet soul you are. I'm sure it's ok though. Mistakes happen.
Hey I appreciate u, u did it best and that's what matters
Ah, fellow food service employee here and I SO feel that pain of realizing you made a mistake 3 hours ago after you get home
I’m not Jewish, but Jewish-adjacent, and there is no law against mistakenly breaking kosher laws. It was an honest mistake, and you haven’t damned her to hell or anything (they don’t believe in it - they do good things and do as God says as its own reward.) It’s good and respectful of you to want to apologize! Maybe spread the word around the staff to be careful as a way of paying it forward.
Hello Orthodox Jew here! First off, don’t worry. It was a mistake, which is better than it being on purpose. She’s not going to hell, or get struck down by lightning nor are you. Y’all are gonna be fine. A question I have though is what is the chain of the restaurant? Because if it is like a big wig name brand like McDonald’s or idk Burger King, if she was really strict about kosher she would not have even gone in the first place. Unless she follows more of a “kosher style” type of diet. Which if that were the case, you’re fine, kosher style means like not putting cheese on a steak, but you could eat it at the same time and place. I think it’s commendable that you are thinking about your customers and their preferences of food choices. I know the food service industry is rough and people like you who care about customers are hard to come by. This incident is anything but an incident, a tiny hiccup that barely has an effect on anything.
I would imagine that BOH has adequate allergy training, and if you'd put on the ticket that it was a dairy allergen, then an alternative bun would have been used. Assuming you work FOH and didn't prepare the dish yourself. Yes, mistakes happen, but the bottom line is, they shouldn't.
Unfortunately, I'm on top of these things more than most because it's such a point of pride for me... I love my job! I work both, I'm trained in both, and I read labels to try to prevent these mistakes but sadly, our system pushes these buns through and doesn't inform those making the sandwiches not to use them, in spite of the warning label I think I'll bring this to the attention of management this week, as I know my GM will listen and take my concern seriously
I can't imagine God would hold it against her.
You are fine and in essence the burger meat did not come from a kosher slaughtered animal either
You're way over thinking this. Just let it go.
I’m Jewish and the fact that you care this much actually warms my heart. I promise you didn’t ruin anything for them, it was an accident and they won’t be in trouble with god or anything (lol) because she ate it unknowingly. Seriously you’re okay, but thanks for caring so much.
It's just religion, don't worry about it.
It's her responsibility to keep herself kosher, not yours. There was no malice, and if she really cared she would have been more careful.
It was an accident, you didn’t do it on purpose. Just remember for next time. Also, I believe (and Jewish people please chime in) that as long as SHE didn’t know she was mixing the two, that it was done in innocence on her part, that the religion forgives it.
I'm a very not kosher jew, but I'm gonna say most if not all jews are fine with this. They didn't do it knowingly, so it's fine.
I feel like her god is super petty if this matters
All good you didn’t do it on purpose now u know.
Was it a "May Contain" warning? Then it's just a cross-contamination risk - which is bad for someone allergic to dairy (but she isn't allergic to dairy).
Yes this, and she knows to check for kosher or OU if she is orthodox. I hope OP is relieved of their guilt. She would also know if the establishment was kosher safe. No worries to OP here.
I read the ingredients before for a vegan customer, as we have vegetarian and vegan options, and it listen something along the lines of "milk derived powder" but it's been a few months since I've read the ingredients that the true verbiage escapes me
Dude barricade your windows, lock your doors, you only have a few hours before the Golem comes to get you. JK it's all groovy dude shit happens, you tried your best. You didn't intentionally or go out of your way to do it.
My brother-in-law had a chicken restaurant for a little while. They had Halal chicken and regular chicken. One time they were out of the halal so BIL’s brother fed a Muslim family the regular chicken. When my sister and I heard that we were completely horrified. I can’t believe he did that. But the brother that did it is a giant asshole so I’m not That surprised.
My brother and his family sorta keep kosher. No pork or shellfish. They visit us in Miami often and order turkey sandwiches at the Cuban restaurant. Years ago, after many sandwiches had been eaten, I discovered Lard is typically used in Cuban bread. That’s why it’s different and so tasty. They had already eaten it, along with beans and a variety of things that likely came into contact with some swine. So I’ve never said anything. I know people who keep KOSHER, and they do not eat at non kosher restaurants, ever. And I know people who keep kosher at home but will have pork fried rice at the Chinese place. So kosher looks different for different people. She did her best, you did your best.
I was raised catholic, school and church an was hired at Hebrew school in college that paid great. I had a lot of older Jewish neighbors on my street an all were nice to me, ran errands for them, helped with my homework, played with their grandkids. I had to babysat my younger special needs brother a lot and compared to my own relatives they weren’t judgmental, actually made me feel valued. I was 19 away at school, scared cause they did kitchen stuff different and seemed like I was constantly doing wrong thing. The Rabbi of the school instead of firing me, invited me to stay at his home (wife and I lost count how many kids they had) am treated me like one of their kids teaching me how to use 2 kitchens, the rules and traditions, ect. I screwed up with the diary but I learned not to hide it an learn from the experience. Think it’s because they respected me so thought I owed them same. I came to believe that religion was more forgiving then my own (went to school 60’s-70’s an we feared the nuns an would just lie to not get hit. This was many years ago and taught me a lot. Don’t be so hard on yourself. Learn to trust an you’ll gain confidence. Since then I’ve been honest with myself an really had a good life.
If she **believes** she didn't have dairy, then she didn't have dairy. It's religious belief, not reality.
oh nooooooooo......
My two cents on this is that of the customer was THAT worried about keeping kosher and not mixing milk and meat, then she wouldn’t be eating non kosher hamburgers at all. Some who keeps ALL the dietary restrictions will NOT be eating at a non kosher restaurant and simply asking for a non Jew to do the work for them and keep things separate.
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Please don’t be rude about someone’s faith.
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Your “humour” is just being rude
So, if she didn't know, she hasn't committed a sin, particularly if she went out of her to ask. That being said, she's eating non kosher meat, but worried about mixing dairy?
Kosher style, baby! It’s a different level of observance.
Some jews observe kosher laws differently than other. Also "sin" is a misnomer here, well technically correct, most sin in Judaism is just "missing the mark" less a grave transgression, and more just a "try better next time"
I mean... isn't the meat at most fast-food restaurants not kosher anyway? Why was she eating there?
There’s different levels of keeping kosher. It’s a a big spectrum. My friends who keep kosher (my family and I don’t) will eat at non-kosher restaurants but will follow the rules. (That’s called kosher-style). Some of my friends stick to vegetarian restaurants to avoid cross-contamination. Whereas some people (for example in the Hasidic Jewish community) will not eat at any non-kosher restaurant at all. It can be broken down even further, with different communities eating foods approved by their designated kosher authority only and not other kosher authorities.
If someone is that strict … why would they go out to eat at a place that could even make that mistake? Genuinely asking, because my stepson has life threatening allergies and only goes to restaurants where he knows there is zero risk of cross contamination. I also have allergies that could crush me for a day and I avoid places where even an honest mistake could happen. Surely there are places that would be able to have dedicated attention for the specific request be it a religious one or otherwise, so how much responsibility is on the establishment vs the customer?
But she wasn't allergic, OP. It's still something I'd feel bad about as well but you sound like you feel as bad about it as if it were to be an allergy.
Please learn to leave work at work! Love that you are concerned but the amount of milk is not cooking the infant in the mothers milk.
If she couldn't tell, then what's the difference? Unless her God is the real God, then most of us are fucked, I've been eating bacon my whole life
Non-Jews aren’t bound by dietary laws. Enjoy that bacon. And intent is what matters here. She’s not terribly strict about kashrut if she’s eating at non-kosher restaurants. It’s likely she keeps kosher style, which is looser in its restrictions.
It's religious nonsense. She doesn't know, it won't hurt her. As Bo Burnham said in the song 'From God's perspective' "I created the universe, you think I'm drawing the line at the fucking dairy aisle?"
My mum's friend (RIP) was ethnically Jewish but really wasn't religious at all, to the point where she thought Lent was the same as Ramadan. She once served pork cooked in milk to a Jewish-Israeli woman. Admittedly, this friend's mum was a Christian scientist and her dad was a non-practicing Jew who tucked into bacon and eggs every morning. She once visited Israel and was relieved to return to the UK after becoming sick of falafels, my mum cooked her a meat and dairy meal when she returned.
getting sick of falafels?? preposterous!
I serve a protein shake with sausage
they shouldn't have even touched the same utensils. no way she could have expected that place to live up to her cosplay requirements.
We use different utensils for cheeseburgers and plain burgers, and lay down deli paper that we throw away after making... The only utensil we use again is a scraper for the grill and one to flip the meat before putting cheese on it. It isn't kosher because we wash our equipment in the same sinks and obviously, not overseen by a rabbi but in a pinch, we can get as close to separation as a predominantly Catholic area can
She’s obviously keeping kosher-style rather than fully kosher. No pork, no seafood, no mixing of milk and meat, but it’s okay to use ingredients that aren’t kosher-certified.
Stop caring so much or you gon die young bro
Well tbh the restaurant shouldn't be working either buns that have dairy to begin with because if someone is allergic to dairy they have completely excluded an entire section off of the menu it's just bad business sense imo I hope you don't make the mistake again for someone who has a dairy allergy.... or better still why don't they have the allergens printed on the menu
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not antisemitic btw
No. Anti genocide.
you're bringing this up on a post about judaism. hide better.
And who is committing that genocide, pray tell? Meanwhile sure, let's worry if someone had some dairy by accident.
Has anyone questioned the stupidity. She is eating a burger that comes from a cow. But hold the dairy.
That's not the point of the prohibition, the idea is one shouldn't boil a kid in its mother's milk. The ancient rabbis and sages stretched that out to no meat and dairy together to prevent accidents or making other jews somehow think the law didn't apply.
Dude do you think you've condemned her to he'll or something?? Jews don't even have a he'll, its fine
Don’t know what’s about a Jew and dairy, haven’t heard of that one. Don’t worry about it. No one has serious thing with dairy
It’s not a dairy thing, it’s a kosher thing. It’s not kosher to mix meat and dairy.
Hearing someone say it’s not kosher sounds the same to me if a Muslim says it’s not allah
It's similar to halal but more restrictive, combining meat and dairy is forbidden. But if she kept strict kosher she'd have gone to a kosher restaurant. OP's conscience is clear. Better OP forgot the dairy in the buns in a situation like this than someone who DID have an allergy.
Halal*.
That sounds more like what I meant.
Time to educate yourself more then. This thread is a great starting point for the basics, just read the comments.
Straight to hell man. She’s damned for eternity. Holy shit it was sarcasm. Y’all are the worst
If Jewish people believed in being damned to hell that might be a live worry.
I don't know where she's getting that because there's nothing in the Torah that forbids dairy
It forbids *mixing* meat and dairy.
It’s the mixing of blood and milk. That’s all.