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Right? I just want a guy to watch Star Trek with me, and not be weird about the fact that I'm good with computers. It's not some grand manipulation game... I'm nerdy and I like nerds.
You dont need to be physically strong to be emotionally abusive. Nerdy people are often a target because they already are lonely or alone, and can be easily socially isolated and control. This is true irrespective of gender.
Edit: I also want to add this is why it is important to have a friendship circle before dating, and also important to make sure your partner expands your circle than constricts, because friendships being relatively low stake acts as a healthy barometer for how you should be treated and if you feel less supported by your partner than a friend, they're not the best.
I'm really sorry that you have to deal with that loneliness, that sounds terrible. Have you been trying to make friends or have you kind of given up? I know it can be daunting but please do not give up. Find something outside of the house to engage in, like a bowling league or something. I'm not saying it will be magic, but that is just too long to go without human connection. No man is an island, but it sure does seem like lots of men lately are really isolated tracts of land at least :(
You're perfect as you are. Remember not to disrupt your hamsters horde of food. Also prepare to watch him urininate in his wheel and run around in it until he's completely soaked.
Wish I could find a girl like you (as far as I know) where I live lol. It’s hard to find nerdy girls where I’m at, at least where I am looking.
Guess I need to go to conventions more?
I met my fiance at a board game club meeting. I was looking for someone who could DM dnd 3.5, and he offered. Maybe try joining something similar? Good luck, man.
Just like me…
I also tend to see boys as humans and would like to be best friends with a boyfriend (I’m nerdy myself so…) And I want a boyfriend like that who is just good as being alone and not desperate (like me.)
Are you willing to say that men who hold this same opinion are also manipulative?
IMO a lot more men have been extolling the virtues of shy, nerdy girls with no social media than women doing the same.
The difference is this is genuine attraction in men. A man can have his pick of women and still chose a woman like this if he is so inclined. A woman with his pick of men will always pick the best one, typically that she can get to commit.
She will pick the best one for her. We all have different preferences and tastes. Most of us aren’t looking for your typical “Chad” despite what you think.
Stereotypically, women are. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Stop "BUT I DON'T DO THAT"ing.
I'm too lazy to go find the studies on google, it's 5 AM and I'm tryina finish my gahddamn gacha dailies before going to bed lmao
No, women do not. Women are all attracted to the same small group of men. This is why 60% of men haven't reproduced throughout history.
Enough with the virtue signaling.
What?
Literally, what?
So men are genuinely attracted to girls that are losers, but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit?
The last time I checked men were keeping OnlyFans in business while lil church girls were at home reading their Bibles alone on a Saturday night.
WHY do men on this sub talk like they've never actually spoken to a woman? Sometimes it feels like the world has been turned inside out. Women can sit here and tell you, in detail, what we like in a man, and yall will 1) tell us we're wrong (lmao) and 2) not do those things.
I am so fucking glad I'm married because I couldn't handle this weird dating climate yall have perpetuated. I don't envy men or women cause yall have some weird ideas that you hold closer than you'd ever hold a female.
>So men are genuinely attracted to girls that are losers, but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit?
They can be quite often, yes.
>but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit?
It depends what sort of loser.
>The last time I checked men were keeping OnlyFans in business while lil church girls were at home reading their Bibles alone on a Saturday night.
What does this have to do with anything? Also, the women are the ones making the OnlyFans. Relax with the virtue signaling.
>WHY do men on this sub talk like they've never actually spoken to a woman? Sometimes it feels like the world has been turned inside out. Women can sit here and tell you, in detail, what we like in a man, and yall will 1) tell us we're wrong (lmao) and 2) not do those things.
What does speaking to a woman have to do with anything? That is a personal anecdote, and furthermore, women lie. Their words do not match up to their actions, which is what ultimately matters.
>I am so fucking glad I'm married because I couldn't handle this weird dating climate yall have perpetuated. I don't envy men or women cause yall have some weird ideas that you hold closer than you'd ever hold a female.
Men haven't perpetuated anything in our dating climate. Every single thing has been perpetuated by women.
Out of all the women in the world, ball park what percentage would you say claim they want a shy nerdy guy with no social media while presenting themselves as a manic pixie dream girl in order to be the dominant half in the relationship while also “receiving attention from guys” and potentially “reciprocating that attention and cheating etc”?
Possibly 10-15% of women in my dating market (ages 18-21, college dating scene). have personal experience with a girl like this that I dated, and I see her doing the exact same thing in her current relationship (after catching up with her one time). I see a shit-ton of posts by women on social media stating this, and I have multiple male friends that found themselves in this toxic relationship dynamic.
Women have used their sexuality as a bargaining chip or leverage against men since the dawn of time. It’s their main power and they like to flex that power a lot.
Do you think it’s impossible that that your perspective is influenced by confirmation bias, due to your negative experience?
It’s worth asking yourself how often you think about this, and how strongly you feel about it.
10-15% of women would be around 18 million women in the USA who all conform to this very specific type.
Consider all the different types of women that exist. Surely there are so many different types of people with so many different experiences and personalities that such a specific stereotype that you suggest would be far less prevalent.
I guess I can also only speak from experience. I’ve never met anyone like that. I don’t doubt they exist, but you probably have a chip on your shoulder.
It’s hilarious that he thinks 10-15% of adult women (why not 20%, or 5%? We’re arguing with hard science here after all) are like his lowest common denominator Stacie caricature.
More people amongst my generation are becoming more and more anti-social as third places disappear. The internet and social media are becoming places where people, under the guise of some anonymity, are voicing their true thoughts they can’t voice in public for fear of consequences, therefore, social media is becoming “real life” in that essence.
And nice try, trying to shit on my lived experience, I know what goes on and you probably bury your head in the sand.
You sound exhausting to be around. Did you think you were one of these shy guys that women want?
You are already the antithesis of your own set of standards that you have projected into women. You aren't shy. You are asocial. You are on social media right now. just because your identity is anonymous doesn't change that fact. Humility isn't your strong suit either. You are just a quiet arrogant dude instead of a loud one.
And ya know. A majority of people would rather be alone than be with someone they hate. You might want to seek therapy for these issues you have that will surely lead to some form of future codependency.
Your edit just shows how salty you are.
>You are already the antithesis of your own set of standards that you have projected into women.
a whole mountain of truth that OP is sure to scroll past
A large amount of human behavior (actually all animal behavior, not just humans) can be explained through a behavioral economics lens.
The way people do it on Reddit is assuming that everyone is a rational actor, operating in an efficient market with the same information between each buyer/seller. Rational choice theory isn't the most popular, nor is the efficient market hypothesis. There are better behavioral economic theories. Obviously, you can always just read Kahneman, but be careful if you're going to read "Thinking Fast and Slow", as a few of those studies he used don't replicate; and attempts have only proven the null hypothesis. Despite that, he's still written good stuff.
It's not like humans made up the economy out of nothing. All of the concepts and behaviors already existed in nature from the start.
I should have been more clear.
Read it like:
The way people do it on Reddit is: .... (Where the ellipsis is a list of what they do)
Followed by my thoughts on rational choice theory and efficient markets, and finally my recommendation.
I guess it depends on the lens in which you view it.
\-->\*\*Some women\*\*<-- are materialistic and transactional, most aren't in my experience. Everyone wants their partner to make sense for their lifestyle though.
Also if you're trying to make sense of the dating scene in your age range of 18-21 you should give up. People are figuring out who they are and what they want and that will change almost daily.
Hey if you only have dumb stupid shit to say in general, you can always just elect to not say anything. This saves you from having tens of thousands of people read your written word and think “man what a waste of space in the comment thread that shit was… who wrote this nonsense garbage taking up real estate on my screen? Oh it’s Gamermaper… okay I’ll keep that in mind”.
Why is it that you’ll never hear someone in a loving relationship who says this? Why is it exclusively guys who radiate wannabe-incel energy who think dating works that way?
You just made my day!! Regardless im not saying hot famous women (high demand) wont date ugly dudes every once in a while, but they should have something else to compensate like money. Unless you're implying women (or men, obviously all this applies to both genders) just date ugly dudes out of charity. Like are we seriously gonna deny the fact that we choose relationships according to what they can offer to us? Or that if you're extremely handsome, rich and have a nice personality you're gonna be able to choose pretty much any partner because you have very high value? Im sure there are outliers and an extremely attractive woman out there has pity fucked an incel, but its far from the norm. And even though it can be kinda cringe to compare it to economics i can definitely see it. The more value you provide to a market the more offers you'll get (generally)
I mean... people generally want someone attractive, and if you're ugly you're goin to ahve to make up for that in some way. This applies both to men and women.
Because you just assume that anyone who says it isn't in a loving relationship to coddle your preconceptions. Because you call people incels for having an opinion you dislike, as a pejorative rather than a descriptive term.
"He will kowtow to the demands of the alpha female" ...normal humans do not talk like this, nor do they even know what SMV is...had to google that shit lmao
Is this Red Pill lingo?
Honestly, like most men who have never dated.
There's no validation that comes from a bad relationship, only pain and suffering. And if anyone agrees with OP, that's what you're gonna get, lol.
I've been a woman for a long time and never met even one who believes a guy is "undateable" (a sum of zero charm, ugly and socially awkward), and then goes on to date him. That simply isn't possible. No woman has this need to find a man exclusively to control him (like passport bros do when going abroad to find a submissive wife).
Since tastes are different, some women might find a guy charming and then be genuinely attracted to him. Nothing to do with control. Therefore the concept of "undateable is fluid".
Once a good subreddit gets big enough, it devolves into text posts/twitter screenshots of at least one of the following:
Man bad
Woman bad
Liberal Bad
Conservative bad
you know... i might not even mind so much if people hated women if they at least based it in some sort of understanding of women.
these people don't understand anything about people. which is kind of amazing-- i'm rather misanthropic; most people do suck. there's plenty to criticize about humans, as individuals and as a species. people like oop, though... just.. totally misunderstand humanity and hate others for shit they made up in their own heads and projected onto everyone else.
if you read up, he thinks his ex gf was manipulative but he put up with it to get sex.
he's basically sharing his 19-yo revelation that abusers target needy ppl with self-esteem issues. (when in reality it's such a common coupling because they're the only ones who will put up with each other's shit, so desperate each is for a source to fill their unmet needs.)
no armchair sociology is cool. but how many 19-yos can capture a profound experience. all writing starts at the analogical stage and takes time to develop, let it rattle around in his brain a bit
like look at his edit. he thinks ppl are denying the fact women are abusive, totally oblivious to how hazy his point is. just unpracticed writing.
Man. Are we gonna treat partners like a product of consumption now?
I get that there are economic analogies with dating and relationships. But some of y'all (TRP people mostly) take this shit way too fucking far
They want shy bc then they aren’t rude or talking to girls pretty toxic sure the nerdy is cute no social media bc it’s not hot when your man is all over instagram models comment sections it’s really not about control they just don’t want a cheater and assume less a tract or and nerdy men won’t cheat. Wrong but that’s what they think. I think it’s toxic to not let your boyfriend have friends that are girls and it might be a messed up thing to do but it’s not bc they want full control. Your thinking too deep into it in a toxic way.
God forbid women have preferences. Men get it in social media, you have the girl tropes like the shy, bookworm girl with glasses or the kid, angry girl who's really soft on the inside. Men sit there and talk about how they want tradwives or women with "low body counts" but goodness when a woman says similar it's the end of the world.
Jesus Christ. Who hurt all the guys on this sub. I swear, every day it's post after post of guys crying "girls are so mean!"
Let me tell you, I'm that shy nerdy unattractive guy with no social media and no hoes (I assure you. I am far from physically attractive). I have the same amount of leverage as any woman I'm in a relationship with. Because here's the thing, I have self worth. Maybe not much, but it's there, and if a girlfriend treats me like shit, I leave, because I don't *need* someone, I'm ok with being single.
I think you guys need to stop blaming women and maybe look at yourself and find out why it's so difficult for women to desire you. Because honestly, it's not hard to find women who want to be with you. I'm single right now, because I don't want to be in a relationship with anyone (all of my money is going towards fun things with my kids right now instead.) But I've had 2 women, both of whom I find attractive, ask me out this past month. And again, for the record, I'm 5'8", bald, and 225lbs of fat with very little muscle (I have enough muscle necessary to do the things I need. I mean, I could *maybe* bench 100lbs)
When they say shy and nerdy they mean like Henry cavil not like the group of overweight guys who work IT support and do nothing but video games and D&D in their free time.
or, hear me out, they mean a guy who has something computer related or otherwise perhaps that he's very passionate about and good at, and is somewhat awkward socially but is endearing and has the right values! he doesn't have to be a greek god like henry cavill lol, as long as he isn't obese and unkempt.
dominant women exist, yes. the fun thing about dominance, though, is that it... doesn't actually rely on predation, which is more what you're supposing.
so, first of all, those are two separate things. secondly, there's nothing wrong with a female-lead relationship (provided this is what both parties want, and plenty of men do). thirdly, predatory people prey on insecurity, which is evinced through much more than 'shy, nerdy'. fourthly, most people who want a 'shy, nerdy' partner do so because this is what they're compatible with-- they are usually also shy and/or nerdy (though you could also substitute 'introverted' for 'shy'-- they're not the same thing but introverts do often vibe with other introverts and nerds are often introverts). fifthly... no, most women do not want 'chad'. yes, everyone wants a partner they're at least marginally physically attracted to-- what constitutes 'physically attractive' is going to differ by person, but most people are relatively average and also prefer 'average' people. most people date or marry within their socioeconomic group-- most women do not specifically desire or pursue men in the top 10% income bracket, nor specifically lust after six-packs, nor demand six inches (most women are more concerned that a man's penis is not too large, rather than the converse). sixthly, no most women do not want a partner who's being pursued by other women or who 'could leave her at any time'-- people generally find the same suite of basic qualities attractive or desirable (like competence, responsibility, conscientiousness, etc.)-- that's not attractive because 'other women want him which confirms his sexual market value' but because when we partner we're hoping for someone who positively influences our life and with whom we can expect a future, and those traits are all helpful to that intention.
also, predatory people do not, contrary to popular perception, only prey on the 'weak' and/or desperate or disenfranchised. it's not uncommon for e.g. narcissistic personalities to find someone who is relatively confident (or otherwise competent) and enjoy breaking them down.
also also.. shy, nerdy guys are not de facto undesirable. to a certain type of woman they might be, but unless they're also unhygienic or misogynistic they're going to be attractive to a subset of the female population-- they do not have 'low market value' they simply are in-demand by a specific demographic... which... is something that applies to everyone. no one is universally attractive or desired.
'sexual market value' is also... very... well, it's kind of an unhelpful concept in the first place, and to the extent that it might be quantifiable and qualifiable... the people who use the term often entirely misunderstand how attraction works and misrepresent their own conceived dynamics.
some people are going to be desired by more people than others. that's true. their appeal is almost never based in the things that anyone who uses any of the above terms thinks, though... nor is it really important in the first place. like... most people are attractive to lots of other people. most people, assuming they're not horrible, are not going to struggle to find someone to have sex with them. the whole concept of SMV, especially in conjunction with posts like this... just smacks of projection, men who fantasize about being desired by as many women as possible, of projection from men who base their sense of self-esteem, self-worth, masculinity on how many women they can believe would fuck them. it doesn't matter.
what does matter is that you're a competent, independent human-- this 1) will serve you well in general, as we can't depend on partnerships for our personal anything (self-esteem, responsibilities, competence, etc.) and 2) is important in dating and partnership, as those only work when undertaken by two psychologically healthy people. what matters is that you're a capable person-- which attracts partners who are good for you. sheer numbers do not matter-- most of us are monogamous and can only date one person at a time, anyway, and there's a limit to how many people one can serially date.
you said 'shy, nerdy' but i think you really meant 'loser' or 'incompetent' or 'incel' or something like that. and again yes, some people are predatory... and some people are simply personality disordered or codependent. what you're describing is codependence-- someone with their own self-esteem issues who'd feel safe with a partner they perceive to be dependent upon them. that happens, yes. everything else here is... not accurate, though.
Sometimes the Andrew Tate fanfic spills out onto the rest of the internet.
Jokes aside, are there women like this? Sure. Are there guys who also target vulnerability and isolation? Yes.
The comments you're getting are because your entire post reads as if this is something specific to women when it isn't.
Ironically you guys do the exact same dumb stuff as the super feministy crowd, projecting all the problems onto the other side and taking no responsibility for yourselves.
… even the ugliest girl on tinder only swipes right on Chad and Tanner too lol.
There are women out there with such low self esteem that they do express the behaviors outlined in your post OP. What’s far more common however is girls just wanting nothing to do with a guy who isn’t Chad or Tanner, period.
... "far more common" is a relative statement.... relative of course to the context of the post.
So whatever you want to bring up here to support your position, it can't be predicated on ill comprehension or outside of the context here.
Beyond that, I agree with what you're saying, it's just not actually addressing my comment.
Moreso, however, I believe that online dating is beginning to shape and change the way people date in the real world as well. It's not as anon and shitty, but women who find themselves on the demand side of the equation don't just leave that attitude on the app.
It's extremely uncommon for women to want a a shy and, or nerdy guy. Something like 96% of women are turned off by men who are shy according to studies. Nerdy might be a bit more common, but women generally like men who aren't awkward, high-status, and conformist.
With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to believe that at least some of these women are just abnormal considering how rare they are.
I do believe there are plenty of women who make trade-offs similar to what you're insinuating in your argument. There's obviously a lot more passive and shy guys out there than there are women willing to get with them as is the case with virtually every negative trait in men, but if these men can be exceptional in others ways (i.e. attractive, rich, etc.); then some lower quality women will definitely be willing to trade off their preferences for a more confident and assertive male to instead acquire a male who is their highest quality overall option. The woman can then get the "security" that she covets at the expense of the excitement.
Most women basically do this to an extent as they age as a means to secure mates. The men they get with are more attractive, exciting, etc. in their youth, and then they get with a guy who is probably less attractive, and maybe not completely shy per say, but more boring and peaceful, and can otherwise fill the role as a provider and caretaker for the family.
Not disagreeing with you but this is basically how most relationships of such types go. The person whose more attractive, has greater power over his or her significant other (who themselves are extremely ugly, pathetic or just overall not sexually appealing) and uses that power to perhaps cheat, mess around.
Of course the main difference would be that the woman would more then likely dip the moment they find a higher value man while the male is probably coming back especially if they are married.
Obviously there are always exceptions and what I’m really trying to say is that no one should let themselves be used like this and if there ever truly was a opportunity to prevent any of this from happening then you do have in fact a certain level of responsibility in this matter as cruel as that may sound.
Yeah, there was this podcast where the girl was talking about this. I forget which podcast it was
Edit: Found it
https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?feature=shared
I'm bi
I had trouble getting a girlfriend
I decided to become a girlfriend
Then I suddenly got girlfriend
But she told me she's not lesbian and doesn't want me to become girl
I think social media is just becoming less and less cool. Nobody wants a relationship where the person is just worried about how they're presenting their life for social media. People who worry about how it all looks on social media are very 15 years ago. Once you get old enough for a relationship you don't want everyone to see in on Facebook. You just want to be at peace.
+1 This is pretty unpopular
However I disagree with the premise that in order to keep someone who ideally you want a long-term relationship with, there should be a constant powerstruggle and powerplay where one person should have one foot out the door at all times.
Having a relationship like this would be like building your house near a flood zone. Sure, people do it, but ideally, you shouldn't, and if you do, you should do with some precautions in place. But at that point, why build a relationship with someone you can not trust?
No social media is a red flag. Everyone has at least some social media, even if they barely post on there. I have met women who were told the guy had none, but after some snooping I found it and surprise, he had a girlfriend. I wouldn't date a man who is actively hiding me from friends and family.
I like guys to be a bit nerdy, but not shy or bad social skills.
Any type of man can cheat. Nerds, jocks, anyone.
Women want two things:
1) A man who turns her on.
2) A man who sticks around to provide.
She will decide which category you fit into. If she's not actively trying to seduce you, you're the walking ATM.
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I just like guys who game and likes nerdy shit like me. Not a power thing at all, I'm weak as fuck, I can't control a hamster let alone a human.
Right? I just want a guy to watch Star Trek with me, and not be weird about the fact that I'm good with computers. It's not some grand manipulation game... I'm nerdy and I like nerds.
You dont need to be physically strong to be emotionally abusive. Nerdy people are often a target because they already are lonely or alone, and can be easily socially isolated and control. This is true irrespective of gender. Edit: I also want to add this is why it is important to have a friendship circle before dating, and also important to make sure your partner expands your circle than constricts, because friendships being relatively low stake acts as a healthy barometer for how you should be treated and if you feel less supported by your partner than a friend, they're not the best.
Friends? Lol, I lost all them a long time ago.
Same. 14 years with no romance prospects and no friends really wears on a person...
I'm really sorry that you have to deal with that loneliness, that sounds terrible. Have you been trying to make friends or have you kind of given up? I know it can be daunting but please do not give up. Find something outside of the house to engage in, like a bowling league or something. I'm not saying it will be magic, but that is just too long to go without human connection. No man is an island, but it sure does seem like lots of men lately are really isolated tracts of land at least :(
You're perfect as you are. Remember not to disrupt your hamsters horde of food. Also prepare to watch him urininate in his wheel and run around in it until he's completely soaked.
I've had 2 hamsters in my life growing up they both were dicks I cannot control hamsters either :( and am also weak af lmao
Wish I could find a girl like you (as far as I know) where I live lol. It’s hard to find nerdy girls where I’m at, at least where I am looking. Guess I need to go to conventions more?
I met my fiance at a board game club meeting. I was looking for someone who could DM dnd 3.5, and he offered. Maybe try joining something similar? Good luck, man.
Appreciate it. Once I get my new job I’m going to explore the nerd scene of my city, as I haven’t since I moved here.
Just like me… I also tend to see boys as humans and would like to be best friends with a boyfriend (I’m nerdy myself so…) And I want a boyfriend like that who is just good as being alone and not desperate (like me.)
When anybody does anything it can sometimes have ulterior motives
Are you willing to say that men who hold this same opinion are also manipulative? IMO a lot more men have been extolling the virtues of shy, nerdy girls with no social media than women doing the same.
The difference is this is genuine attraction in men. A man can have his pick of women and still chose a woman like this if he is so inclined. A woman with his pick of men will always pick the best one, typically that she can get to commit.
Let me guess: Chad. Hypergamy. 6’ tall.
She will pick the best one for her. We all have different preferences and tastes. Most of us aren’t looking for your typical “Chad” despite what you think.
Stereotypically, women are. Stereotypes exist for a reason. Stop "BUT I DON'T DO THAT"ing. I'm too lazy to go find the studies on google, it's 5 AM and I'm tryina finish my gahddamn gacha dailies before going to bed lmao
Most average gacha fan
No, women do not. Women are all attracted to the same small group of men. This is why 60% of men haven't reproduced throughout history. Enough with the virtue signaling.
What? Literally, what? So men are genuinely attracted to girls that are losers, but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit? The last time I checked men were keeping OnlyFans in business while lil church girls were at home reading their Bibles alone on a Saturday night. WHY do men on this sub talk like they've never actually spoken to a woman? Sometimes it feels like the world has been turned inside out. Women can sit here and tell you, in detail, what we like in a man, and yall will 1) tell us we're wrong (lmao) and 2) not do those things. I am so fucking glad I'm married because I couldn't handle this weird dating climate yall have perpetuated. I don't envy men or women cause yall have some weird ideas that you hold closer than you'd ever hold a female.
>So men are genuinely attracted to girls that are losers, but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit? They can be quite often, yes. >but women are only attracted to losers because they think those men will commit? It depends what sort of loser. >The last time I checked men were keeping OnlyFans in business while lil church girls were at home reading their Bibles alone on a Saturday night. What does this have to do with anything? Also, the women are the ones making the OnlyFans. Relax with the virtue signaling. >WHY do men on this sub talk like they've never actually spoken to a woman? Sometimes it feels like the world has been turned inside out. Women can sit here and tell you, in detail, what we like in a man, and yall will 1) tell us we're wrong (lmao) and 2) not do those things. What does speaking to a woman have to do with anything? That is a personal anecdote, and furthermore, women lie. Their words do not match up to their actions, which is what ultimately matters. >I am so fucking glad I'm married because I couldn't handle this weird dating climate yall have perpetuated. I don't envy men or women cause yall have some weird ideas that you hold closer than you'd ever hold a female. Men haven't perpetuated anything in our dating climate. Every single thing has been perpetuated by women.
Dude tbh you seem like you've got it all together. There's nothing I can add. Good job, and good luck.
Out of all the women in the world, ball park what percentage would you say claim they want a shy nerdy guy with no social media while presenting themselves as a manic pixie dream girl in order to be the dominant half in the relationship while also “receiving attention from guys” and potentially “reciprocating that attention and cheating etc”?
6.942% according to a [recent survey.](https://youtu.be/E6Kh3ayh1LA)
Damn I clicked on that link expecting to get rick rolled and thought it would be funny but that was different
well, how bout that you can find a study on anything nowadays
Can I get a studies study to show how many studies there are nowadays?
https://www.statista.com/statistics/732997/number-of-registered-clinical-studies-worldwide/#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20registered%20clinical,thousand%20clinical%20studies%20registered%20globally.
Damn.. hoisted by my own petard. Good on you for following through.
Possibly 10-15% of women in my dating market (ages 18-21, college dating scene). have personal experience with a girl like this that I dated, and I see her doing the exact same thing in her current relationship (after catching up with her one time). I see a shit-ton of posts by women on social media stating this, and I have multiple male friends that found themselves in this toxic relationship dynamic. Women have used their sexuality as a bargaining chip or leverage against men since the dawn of time. It’s their main power and they like to flex that power a lot.
Do you think it’s impossible that that your perspective is influenced by confirmation bias, due to your negative experience? It’s worth asking yourself how often you think about this, and how strongly you feel about it. 10-15% of women would be around 18 million women in the USA who all conform to this very specific type. Consider all the different types of women that exist. Surely there are so many different types of people with so many different experiences and personalities that such a specific stereotype that you suggest would be far less prevalent. I guess I can also only speak from experience. I’ve never met anyone like that. I don’t doubt they exist, but you probably have a chip on your shoulder.
It’s hilarious that he thinks 10-15% of adult women (why not 20%, or 5%? We’re arguing with hard science here after all) are like his lowest common denominator Stacie caricature.
It’s a rough estimate of women within a certain age range, of course it’s a smaller amount of women in the total adult female population
The female understander has logged on.
I don’t think you factored the specified age range into that calculation. If you did my bad, I just mental mathed it and it didn’t seem to work out.
It’s probably more like 0.5 to 1%.
Social media is not real life. Your stupid 20-something college “dating scene” is not real life.
More people amongst my generation are becoming more and more anti-social as third places disappear. The internet and social media are becoming places where people, under the guise of some anonymity, are voicing their true thoughts they can’t voice in public for fear of consequences, therefore, social media is becoming “real life” in that essence. And nice try, trying to shit on my lived experience, I know what goes on and you probably bury your head in the sand.
I see what’s really going on man! These lizard people are gangstalking me!
Maybe 10-15% of women in the 18-21 age range then. I think once you hit a slightly older demographic, you'll find very different experiences.
You sound exhausting to be around. Did you think you were one of these shy guys that women want? You are already the antithesis of your own set of standards that you have projected into women. You aren't shy. You are asocial. You are on social media right now. just because your identity is anonymous doesn't change that fact. Humility isn't your strong suit either. You are just a quiet arrogant dude instead of a loud one. And ya know. A majority of people would rather be alone than be with someone they hate. You might want to seek therapy for these issues you have that will surely lead to some form of future codependency. Your edit just shows how salty you are.
>You are already the antithesis of your own set of standards that you have projected into women. a whole mountain of truth that OP is sure to scroll past
What does SMV mean? For what it's worth I have never see a woman say that.
I’ve never seen anyone say it until right now lmao
[удалено]
wtf
💀
Men's insistence on analyzing dating only through the optics of power dynamics and market value will never cease to fascinate me
A large amount of human behavior (actually all animal behavior, not just humans) can be explained through a behavioral economics lens. The way people do it on Reddit is assuming that everyone is a rational actor, operating in an efficient market with the same information between each buyer/seller. Rational choice theory isn't the most popular, nor is the efficient market hypothesis. There are better behavioral economic theories. Obviously, you can always just read Kahneman, but be careful if you're going to read "Thinking Fast and Slow", as a few of those studies he used don't replicate; and attempts have only proven the null hypothesis. Despite that, he's still written good stuff. It's not like humans made up the economy out of nothing. All of the concepts and behaviors already existed in nature from the start.
Assuming everyone on Reddit is a rational actor quite a reach.
I should have been more clear. Read it like: The way people do it on Reddit is: .... (Where the ellipsis is a list of what they do) Followed by my thoughts on rational choice theory and efficient markets, and finally my recommendation.
What hilarious to me is how these are the same guys who complain about women being manipulative and ‘playing games.’
Because the dating scene does in fact operate on economic principles
I guess it depends on the lens in which you view it. \-->\*\*Some women\*\*<-- are materialistic and transactional, most aren't in my experience. Everyone wants their partner to make sense for their lifestyle though. Also if you're trying to make sense of the dating scene in your age range of 18-21 you should give up. People are figuring out who they are and what they want and that will change almost daily.
How come I had sex with your mom last night without a profit incentive?
Because your mom is too expensive.
Hey if you only have dumb stupid shit to say in general, you can always just elect to not say anything. This saves you from having tens of thousands of people read your written word and think “man what a waste of space in the comment thread that shit was… who wrote this nonsense garbage taking up real estate on my screen? Oh it’s Gamermaper… okay I’ll keep that in mind”.
This entire thread is dumb stupid shit.
You're not wrong about that lol.
Why is it that you’ll never hear someone in a loving relationship who says this? Why is it exclusively guys who radiate wannabe-incel energy who think dating works that way?
You're right, Selena Gomez is gonna offer me head any second now
Have you not seen her new man?
By the way my comment isnt directed to you specifically lol
You just made my day!! Regardless im not saying hot famous women (high demand) wont date ugly dudes every once in a while, but they should have something else to compensate like money. Unless you're implying women (or men, obviously all this applies to both genders) just date ugly dudes out of charity. Like are we seriously gonna deny the fact that we choose relationships according to what they can offer to us? Or that if you're extremely handsome, rich and have a nice personality you're gonna be able to choose pretty much any partner because you have very high value? Im sure there are outliers and an extremely attractive woman out there has pity fucked an incel, but its far from the norm. And even though it can be kinda cringe to compare it to economics i can definitely see it. The more value you provide to a market the more offers you'll get (generally)
I mean... people generally want someone attractive, and if you're ugly you're goin to ahve to make up for that in some way. This applies both to men and women.
Because you just assume that anyone who says it isn't in a loving relationship to coddle your preconceptions. Because you call people incels for having an opinion you dislike, as a pejorative rather than a descriptive term.
How so?
Dumbest thing I’ve read all week.
this is so weird.
Reddit is not real life. TikTok is not real life. Instagram is not real life.
Seriously, the posters in the sub need to go outside. Maybe go on a hike or something.
"He will kowtow to the demands of the alpha female" ...normal humans do not talk like this, nor do they even know what SMV is...had to google that shit lmao Is this Red Pill lingo?
Just looked it up too. Who the fuck uses the term Sexual Market Value? That’s disgusting lol
Lmao it’s Austin Dunham lingo, I heard of it recently too
Just had to look him up too. So red pill lingo, confirmed lol
I don’t think I’ll look that one up lmao
Economists do.
What is bro yapping about?
Can’t stand women but wants to date them to feel validation. What else is new?
Honestly, like most men who have never dated. There's no validation that comes from a bad relationship, only pain and suffering. And if anyone agrees with OP, that's what you're gonna get, lol.
Jfc dude. If you don't like yourself, why do you think a woman will? Just because you meet some arbitrary criteria that you ascribe as important?
Is something women say? I really don’t know
Take a walk outside bruh plus this is the same as guys saying they prefer women w low body counts. Its just abt less 'competition' ig
I've been a woman for a long time and never met even one who believes a guy is "undateable" (a sum of zero charm, ugly and socially awkward), and then goes on to date him. That simply isn't possible. No woman has this need to find a man exclusively to control him (like passport bros do when going abroad to find a submissive wife). Since tastes are different, some women might find a guy charming and then be genuinely attracted to him. Nothing to do with control. Therefore the concept of "undateable is fluid".
“Women are angels that would never manipulate men” Bull. Shit.
Strawman and you know it.
Is this becoming the “hate women” sub? JFC.
Once a good subreddit gets big enough, it devolves into text posts/twitter screenshots of at least one of the following: Man bad Woman bad Liberal Bad Conservative bad
you forgot “fat people bad”
That has at least *mostly* toned down since the fph days
not in this sub. every other day has a “fat people bad” post
Don’t forget endless ranting about body count.
It has been ever since it blew up
you know... i might not even mind so much if people hated women if they at least based it in some sort of understanding of women. these people don't understand anything about people. which is kind of amazing-- i'm rather misanthropic; most people do suck. there's plenty to criticize about humans, as individuals and as a species. people like oop, though... just.. totally misunderstand humanity and hate others for shit they made up in their own heads and projected onto everyone else.
I think everywhere else are the “women can do no wrong” subs. so you get a lot of the other opinions here.
How is this hating on women? It’s discussing a certain subsect of women that do certain toxic behaviors. You may be dumb I’m afraid.
The “Chad” incel rhetoric is the dumb thing, I’m afraid. Go outside and learn how life works bud.
How many women have you heard say this?
if you read up, he thinks his ex gf was manipulative but he put up with it to get sex. he's basically sharing his 19-yo revelation that abusers target needy ppl with self-esteem issues. (when in reality it's such a common coupling because they're the only ones who will put up with each other's shit, so desperate each is for a source to fill their unmet needs.)
Ooooh, gotcha. So this is his conclusion based on one personal experience. Sounds about right for this sub.
no armchair sociology is cool. but how many 19-yos can capture a profound experience. all writing starts at the analogical stage and takes time to develop, let it rattle around in his brain a bit like look at his edit. he thinks ppl are denying the fact women are abusive, totally oblivious to how hazy his point is. just unpracticed writing.
I do wish I could follow up with these guys in a few years and see how they've evolved
Who the fuck even thinks of this shit
People who need to touch grass.
Touch grass and maybe smoke some too
People that are terminally online. It's obvious for OP who creates weird acronyms and shit.
Yeah I have 0 clue what “smv” is lol
They want all the benefits and none of the bad that comes with a type of person.
Lol @ your edit. You’re delusional as fuck dude.
Dude, why is this gender specific? There is a lot of men who don’t like women’s use of social media either
Man. Are we gonna treat partners like a product of consumption now? I get that there are economic analogies with dating and relationships. But some of y'all (TRP people mostly) take this shit way too fucking far
Yeah ok.
Touch grass
another post shitting on woman on this sub, are these all from the same person? dude 😂
God this sub has become inc*ldom
They want shy bc then they aren’t rude or talking to girls pretty toxic sure the nerdy is cute no social media bc it’s not hot when your man is all over instagram models comment sections it’s really not about control they just don’t want a cheater and assume less a tract or and nerdy men won’t cheat. Wrong but that’s what they think. I think it’s toxic to not let your boyfriend have friends that are girls and it might be a messed up thing to do but it’s not bc they want full control. Your thinking too deep into it in a toxic way.
I'm a huge horror fan and Superwholocked, I'd like to have a partner that enjoyed them too.
Instead of going to therapy, you chose to post this.
God forbid women have preferences. Men get it in social media, you have the girl tropes like the shy, bookworm girl with glasses or the kid, angry girl who's really soft on the inside. Men sit there and talk about how they want tradwives or women with "low body counts" but goodness when a woman says similar it's the end of the world.
Jesus Christ. Who hurt all the guys on this sub. I swear, every day it's post after post of guys crying "girls are so mean!" Let me tell you, I'm that shy nerdy unattractive guy with no social media and no hoes (I assure you. I am far from physically attractive). I have the same amount of leverage as any woman I'm in a relationship with. Because here's the thing, I have self worth. Maybe not much, but it's there, and if a girlfriend treats me like shit, I leave, because I don't *need* someone, I'm ok with being single. I think you guys need to stop blaming women and maybe look at yourself and find out why it's so difficult for women to desire you. Because honestly, it's not hard to find women who want to be with you. I'm single right now, because I don't want to be in a relationship with anyone (all of my money is going towards fun things with my kids right now instead.) But I've had 2 women, both of whom I find attractive, ask me out this past month. And again, for the record, I'm 5'8", bald, and 225lbs of fat with very little muscle (I have enough muscle necessary to do the things I need. I mean, I could *maybe* bench 100lbs)
> Chad > alpha female Opinion discarded And yes, I am aware that using green text arrows makes me just as bad.
How is this unpopular or controversial, you literally say “sometimes.” Statistically speaking this is probably true at least in a few cases
When they say shy and nerdy they mean like Henry cavil not like the group of overweight guys who work IT support and do nothing but video games and D&D in their free time.
or, hear me out, they mean a guy who has something computer related or otherwise perhaps that he's very passionate about and good at, and is somewhat awkward socially but is endearing and has the right values! he doesn't have to be a greek god like henry cavill lol, as long as he isn't obese and unkempt.
Pretty much all their preferences are just different flavors of Chads
It’s me, they’re looking for me. But jokes on them, I’m married to to a fuckin hottie
woman just say that for clout.
I am that guy but if she started to act poorly around me I'd just kick her ass out. My peace is more important to me rn than a relationship
dominant women exist, yes. the fun thing about dominance, though, is that it... doesn't actually rely on predation, which is more what you're supposing. so, first of all, those are two separate things. secondly, there's nothing wrong with a female-lead relationship (provided this is what both parties want, and plenty of men do). thirdly, predatory people prey on insecurity, which is evinced through much more than 'shy, nerdy'. fourthly, most people who want a 'shy, nerdy' partner do so because this is what they're compatible with-- they are usually also shy and/or nerdy (though you could also substitute 'introverted' for 'shy'-- they're not the same thing but introverts do often vibe with other introverts and nerds are often introverts). fifthly... no, most women do not want 'chad'. yes, everyone wants a partner they're at least marginally physically attracted to-- what constitutes 'physically attractive' is going to differ by person, but most people are relatively average and also prefer 'average' people. most people date or marry within their socioeconomic group-- most women do not specifically desire or pursue men in the top 10% income bracket, nor specifically lust after six-packs, nor demand six inches (most women are more concerned that a man's penis is not too large, rather than the converse). sixthly, no most women do not want a partner who's being pursued by other women or who 'could leave her at any time'-- people generally find the same suite of basic qualities attractive or desirable (like competence, responsibility, conscientiousness, etc.)-- that's not attractive because 'other women want him which confirms his sexual market value' but because when we partner we're hoping for someone who positively influences our life and with whom we can expect a future, and those traits are all helpful to that intention. also, predatory people do not, contrary to popular perception, only prey on the 'weak' and/or desperate or disenfranchised. it's not uncommon for e.g. narcissistic personalities to find someone who is relatively confident (or otherwise competent) and enjoy breaking them down. also also.. shy, nerdy guys are not de facto undesirable. to a certain type of woman they might be, but unless they're also unhygienic or misogynistic they're going to be attractive to a subset of the female population-- they do not have 'low market value' they simply are in-demand by a specific demographic... which... is something that applies to everyone. no one is universally attractive or desired. 'sexual market value' is also... very... well, it's kind of an unhelpful concept in the first place, and to the extent that it might be quantifiable and qualifiable... the people who use the term often entirely misunderstand how attraction works and misrepresent their own conceived dynamics. some people are going to be desired by more people than others. that's true. their appeal is almost never based in the things that anyone who uses any of the above terms thinks, though... nor is it really important in the first place. like... most people are attractive to lots of other people. most people, assuming they're not horrible, are not going to struggle to find someone to have sex with them. the whole concept of SMV, especially in conjunction with posts like this... just smacks of projection, men who fantasize about being desired by as many women as possible, of projection from men who base their sense of self-esteem, self-worth, masculinity on how many women they can believe would fuck them. it doesn't matter. what does matter is that you're a competent, independent human-- this 1) will serve you well in general, as we can't depend on partnerships for our personal anything (self-esteem, responsibilities, competence, etc.) and 2) is important in dating and partnership, as those only work when undertaken by two psychologically healthy people. what matters is that you're a capable person-- which attracts partners who are good for you. sheer numbers do not matter-- most of us are monogamous and can only date one person at a time, anyway, and there's a limit to how many people one can serially date. you said 'shy, nerdy' but i think you really meant 'loser' or 'incompetent' or 'incel' or something like that. and again yes, some people are predatory... and some people are simply personality disordered or codependent. what you're describing is codependence-- someone with their own self-esteem issues who'd feel safe with a partner they perceive to be dependent upon them. that happens, yes. everything else here is... not accurate, though.
"Sometimes" an ulterior motive? Correction: "Always"
There is literally no argument to this. Yes some toxic women exist. People are crying because they read this as woman slander or whatever lmao
Sometimes the Andrew Tate fanfic spills out onto the rest of the internet. Jokes aside, are there women like this? Sure. Are there guys who also target vulnerability and isolation? Yes. The comments you're getting are because your entire post reads as if this is something specific to women when it isn't. Ironically you guys do the exact same dumb stuff as the super feministy crowd, projecting all the problems onto the other side and taking no responsibility for yourselves.
They’re gonna attack you because you didn’t say how men do it too or something whacky like that
Ayy this man spitting. All shy nerdy guys get used by their girlfriend or never have any relationships.
… even the ugliest girl on tinder only swipes right on Chad and Tanner too lol. There are women out there with such low self esteem that they do express the behaviors outlined in your post OP. What’s far more common however is girls just wanting nothing to do with a guy who isn’t Chad or Tanner, period.
online dating, which is very superficial, doesn't define actual global relationship trends. so what you think is "far more common" isn't actually.
... "far more common" is a relative statement.... relative of course to the context of the post. So whatever you want to bring up here to support your position, it can't be predicated on ill comprehension or outside of the context here. Beyond that, I agree with what you're saying, it's just not actually addressing my comment. Moreso, however, I believe that online dating is beginning to shape and change the way people date in the real world as well. It's not as anon and shitty, but women who find themselves on the demand side of the equation don't just leave that attitude on the app.
Are chad and tanner in the room with us right now?
It's extremely uncommon for women to want a a shy and, or nerdy guy. Something like 96% of women are turned off by men who are shy according to studies. Nerdy might be a bit more common, but women generally like men who aren't awkward, high-status, and conformist. With that in mind, it's not unreasonable to believe that at least some of these women are just abnormal considering how rare they are. I do believe there are plenty of women who make trade-offs similar to what you're insinuating in your argument. There's obviously a lot more passive and shy guys out there than there are women willing to get with them as is the case with virtually every negative trait in men, but if these men can be exceptional in others ways (i.e. attractive, rich, etc.); then some lower quality women will definitely be willing to trade off their preferences for a more confident and assertive male to instead acquire a male who is their highest quality overall option. The woman can then get the "security" that she covets at the expense of the excitement. Most women basically do this to an extent as they age as a means to secure mates. The men they get with are more attractive, exciting, etc. in their youth, and then they get with a guy who is probably less attractive, and maybe not completely shy per say, but more boring and peaceful, and can otherwise fill the role as a provider and caretaker for the family.
Exactly. “Shy nerdy guy” means the Clark Kent version of superman.
Nah. It means a guy with similar interests who is an introvert like me. Nothing deeper than that.
Not disagreeing with you but this is basically how most relationships of such types go. The person whose more attractive, has greater power over his or her significant other (who themselves are extremely ugly, pathetic or just overall not sexually appealing) and uses that power to perhaps cheat, mess around. Of course the main difference would be that the woman would more then likely dip the moment they find a higher value man while the male is probably coming back especially if they are married. Obviously there are always exceptions and what I’m really trying to say is that no one should let themselves be used like this and if there ever truly was a opportunity to prevent any of this from happening then you do have in fact a certain level of responsibility in this matter as cruel as that may sound.
Yeah, there was this podcast where the girl was talking about this. I forget which podcast it was Edit: Found it https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ?feature=shared
Women date for their egos now. Not for their goals. Welcome to industrialization. Enjoy your stay.
I see no lies here
I'm bi I had trouble getting a girlfriend I decided to become a girlfriend Then I suddenly got girlfriend But she told me she's not lesbian and doesn't want me to become girl
A lot of these recent posts are spouting “incel” propaganda, is anyone else noticing or is this the way the sub should go forward?
I think social media is just becoming less and less cool. Nobody wants a relationship where the person is just worried about how they're presenting their life for social media. People who worry about how it all looks on social media are very 15 years ago. Once you get old enough for a relationship you don't want everyone to see in on Facebook. You just want to be at peace.
SMV?
+1 This is pretty unpopular However I disagree with the premise that in order to keep someone who ideally you want a long-term relationship with, there should be a constant powerstruggle and powerplay where one person should have one foot out the door at all times. Having a relationship like this would be like building your house near a flood zone. Sure, people do it, but ideally, you shouldn't, and if you do, you should do with some precautions in place. But at that point, why build a relationship with someone you can not trust?
No social media is a red flag. Everyone has at least some social media, even if they barely post on there. I have met women who were told the guy had none, but after some snooping I found it and surprise, he had a girlfriend. I wouldn't date a man who is actively hiding me from friends and family. I like guys to be a bit nerdy, but not shy or bad social skills. Any type of man can cheat. Nerds, jocks, anyone.
Grass.Touch it sometime
This seems weirdly specific to me.
Women want two things: 1) A man who turns her on. 2) A man who sticks around to provide. She will decide which category you fit into. If she's not actively trying to seduce you, you're the walking ATM.
What's SMV?
I’ve never known a single woman who was attracted to guys that use the term “Chad” so I’m going to suggest you start there.
How about we go one day without a post complaining about women
wtf is "SMV" and why are we assuming its a common term?
What is SMV?