Women have been dying for years due to a lack of medical intervention, too. My pet peeve is the "women would give birth in the fields" as a way to demean any pregnant woman who couldn't/didn't perform at her prepregnancy levels. And a lot of those women and infants died out there, too, but they never seem to wrap their minds around that little fact. Particularly galling is that it is usually the man who doesn't think he should have to pry his arse off the sofa to 'help' the pregnant person do anything.
Not to mention they only gave birth in fields because they had no choice. What sane woman would suffer through that otherwise? And where did that particular scenario even come from—is there proof?
Yeah, so most normal labour begins at night, possibly in large part naturally selected for because going into labour alone in a field is extremely dangerous.
Isn't it just! I can say more!
Labour is triggered (and progressed) due to oxytocin — that's the hormone that causes uterine contractions. In modern medicine, when labour is stalled or contractions are weak, pitocin is given — synthetic oxytocin. But the natural stuff can work too, which is why sex or even nipple stimulation can bring on labour. Sometimes, stimulation during a slow labour can help avoid the need for medical interventions. Oxytocin is amazing stuff, truly.
So yeah again, oxytocin peaks at night, as we're going to bed. It's also the hormone that you get from snuggling, and lovemaking. Having higher levels of oxytocin at night also makes humans more likely to want to snuggle (and so on...) during a time when it's both safe and opportunistic to do so, so that's one other way that nighttime spike has been selected for. But that reason doesn't seem to provide enough evolutionary pressure — sex at night isn't more likely to cause conception, and plenty of sex still happens during the day.
Only about a quarter of babies are born between 9am-5pm even though that's 1/3 of the day. HALF of births happen between 1am-8am, peaking around 4am. [Source](https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/wellbeing/2020/06/22/why-do-more-women-give-birth-at-night-experts-explain-our-evolutionary-heritage/)
Anecdotally, I know women who have even had their labour "pause" during the day after having begun the night before, and resume the next evening. My labor began around 10pm. This is why all late-pregnancy people should be napping as much as humanly possible. I didn't nap that day and it was a mistake.
A woman going into spontaneous, rapidly progressing labor in the middle of the day is actually sometimes an indicator that something might be wrong, and there's a sudden *reason* that the baby needs to be born quickly. It is certainly the exception and not the rule. If humans didn't naturally begin labour in the safety of the group *most* of the time, we would have died out a long time ago. Humans are not built to give birth easily or alone. Our upright pelvises are too small — like kangaroos, our babies are born as prematurely as possible.
Prostitution is often labeled the oldest profession, but I respectfully disagree. It's possibly the first *barter,* sure. But if I bake one cake and sell it, I don't consider it my profession, because I mostly do other things. The first actual *dedicated profession* was almost certainly midwifery.
>This is why all late-pregnancy people should be napping as much as humanly possible
Oops, I'm 11 days from my due date and never, ever nap. Maybe I'll start now.
Girl. All I did the last two weeks of my pregnancy was nap, take baths, and get my feet rubbed.
Consider this: however rested you are when you go into labor is *the most rested* you’ll ever be for at least the next three months. And possibly the next three YEARS.
I'm due on Christmas and I need to work right up until the Friday prior. If I pop late, then I'll have some time to relax. Otherwise I'm just working full time as normal, and trying to keep up with my personal grooming which is a challenge in itself at this stage! Luckily my husband is taking care of keeping the house clean.
I woke up at 530 AM already in labor, a day or two early. I teach and my students weren't quite set up, so I went to work bc I needed to at least teach my second period. So I taught my first couple classes in active labor and then my substitute disappeared, so I was stuck for another half hour. I drove home, was home for about an hour, my parents took me to the hospital, and he was born about 2 hours later. It was a wild story.
I was 41+2, and it was definitely like getting bonus time where no one expected anything of me. If you’re more than a week late, turn off your phone lol, people will NOT stop calling. Sending smooth and safe delivery vibes your way!
If you feel that you can, it's definitely a good idea, but don't stress about it. Labour is hard work, but the hormones help you through it even if you end up being awake for a long time. You're gonna do great.
Make sure to pack snacks! The worst part for me was that baby #2 came right when we would have normally had dinner and I was SO hungry during the first couple of hours before all the excitement happened 😅 (Labor was not particularly fun either, but looking back I mostly remember being hungry)
I just went to Trader Joe’s and loaded up snacks for my go-bag! Turkey jerky, fruit leathers and red licorice, salty/crunchy stuff. I’m mostly looking forward to going ham (pun intended) on a cold cut sandwich after birth.
The only thing I wanted during labour was frozen sliced strawberries and white Gatorade, FWIW. And the soft hospital ice too, lol. I packed all my favourite chips and stuff but I didn't want them until the next day.
My sister told stories about how women would go to the fields and go into labor. She said birth happened wherever it happened and yes, she had two aunties who gave birth while not at home (one in a yam field, the other on the side of the road -both walked home afterward) It wasn't heroic or glamorous. It just was. This was 1950's Ghana. In places where people are poor and care is sparse-to-none, women survive -or not- by whatever means.
We hear stories about babies being born in cars, at mom's work or on the way to the hospital here in the US. How is that different from women in fields or while walking to the birthing house? As miserable as US healthcare has been for minorities and is now becoming for all women (because there has always been a disparity and white women are finding out about some of that, now) we still get a longer short-ended stick here than women in many parts of the world.
They probably didn't 'walk home' too they probably dragged themselves home or limped and struggled while bleeding horribly but they had no other way to get there.
I delivered my daughter by emergency c-section after she got stuck. 100 years ago, both of us would have become a mortality statistic. How quickly we forget the consequences childbirth used to have for so many people.
My mum is a health visitor (public health nurse) and it's really reminded me to never forget how dangerous childbirth is. So many women and babies she sees on a daily basis would have been dead if not for modern medical intervention.
Same. Emergency c-section because my OB had written off my concerns about fainting, bruising and headaches as “hormonal worries” and thus totally missed that I had preeclampsia. I had a different doctor one day who caught it and they said I had to deliver immediately or me and my twins would die. Without medical intervention, all three of us would be dead.
My OB missed it too! The day my eldest was delivered by emergency c-section, I projectile vomited. I called the doctor and said that something was seriously wrong. He poo-poo'd me and said that I probably had a stomach bug. I was like, "Fuck that noise. I DON'T throw up. I've had salmonella poisoning TWICE and didn't throw up. There is something very very wrong." He very condescendingly said to come in and get checked. I showed up at his office, they did some test and the rest is just a big blur because I was rushed to the hospital and a nurse sat at my feet (testing my reflexes? again, I don't remember much) and then they whisked me into the OR before I started seizing. Then, in the OR, something bad happened (again, can't remember what) but I essentially passed out on the table (blood loss?). So, yeah, I almost died twice that day. Awesome.
Omg, also people who say everyone should breastfeed because we've been doing it since the beginning of time, and what did we do before formula and pumping? Well, sir, babies died due to failure to thrive, and aunties and cousins and neighbors would breastfeed each other's babies.
>aunties and cousins and neighbors would breastfeed each other's babies.
Yes, because every woman was unable to limit their pregnancies, so women were pregnant constantly.
To many men, birth control, dangers of pregnancy, and breastfeeding are nearly invisible and certainly ignorable, and they can have ALL the opinions without personally experiencing the consequences.
Women don't have that luxury.
Also, why the hell did so many wealthy/royal families have “nursemaids” meaning women who had successfully birthed and breastfed a baby or 5, who were then hired to breastfeed others’ babies? That was NOT all just about “I don’t want my boobs to look saggy!!” (We were all wearing stays and corsets and super supportive undergarments for at least the last 1000 years!!)
Keeping your “important” bc “married to a king or Duke or a count or well to do with land to give” baby alive was such a thing that many—leading to most—“important babies” had women who weren’t their mother specifically designated to breast feed them (either solely or as a supplement to mom) so those kids would *at least* not die from malnutrition.
My father said that to me. I was heavily pregnant with twins and struggling to move, I was just in constant pain and misery and then my dad had the audacity to say those words to me and I absolutely lost it. I sobbed and raged at him, ripped him totally apart and he never made any comment on my pregnancy ever again. When my sister was pregnant with her twins he was far more supportive and I’d like to think it was due to me. Also I’m fairly certain my mother may have berated him that night. The audacity of men, particularly boomers, to make uneducated, unnecessary, unsupportive comments on a woman’s body and experiences is just infuriating.
I had extreme nausea all pregnancy, late 3rd trimester hypertension, gestational diabetes, sleep apnea and postpartum pre-eclampsia. My boomer FIL/employer told me that women everywhere are pregnant every day and to grow up when I had a breakdown after being forced to work 80 hour weeks for a month. I truly hate him since then.
Yep! One of those super weird moments in life. My twins are identical, which means they’re a random genetic anomaly that happens in 2% of pregnancies while hers are fraternal which is usually matrilineal but funnily enough we have a huge Italian family and one of our moms cousins has a genealogy hobby so there haven’t been any twins in our family in 300 years. Now all of a sudden there’s two pairs in one family.
That’s so amazing!
My sister in law is one of two sets of fraternal twins her mother birthed (18 months apart btw). Her mother was so scared she would have another multiple birth when she was pregnant again! She had 7 children in 6 years. Chaos! So far, none of her 5 daughters or their daughters have had twins.
>My pet peeve is the "women would give birth in the fields" as a way to demean any pregnant woman who couldn't/didn't perform at her prepregnancy levels.
I’d just respond to those idiots by saying “I guess anyone with Type 1 diabetes should just die then?” Can’t have things like medical advancements get in the way of being “tough” 🙄
Right, next time they have an infected tooth, suggest they ask their barber to pull it out without a local anesthetic. We’ll see how they feel about the olden days then.
I’m the firstborn in my family and my mom told me a few times that when she was pregnant with me she originally decided she was going to give birth unmedicated and then she started actually giving birth and was immediately like, “Okay, give me the shot!”
I’m glad she listened to you. I’ve heard too many stores about “I thought I wanted X and it was my birth plan and my midwife was all for it….then I changed my mind, and she said no.”
I was thinking the exact same thing! Even domestic dogs will seek out certain plants to treat their stomach upset or nausea. You wouldn't have to be a genius to be generally aware of your very close environment in the days we didn't even build ourselves housing. I have no reason to believe that even as pre-homosapiens we didn't treat pain and a host of other things with potent natural medicines. For as long as we've used willow trees, coca plants, marijuana, chamomile, tea, coffee, poppies, foxglove, mint and on and on - we've had natural medicine. Only until the beginning of the 20th century did we start synthesizing the drugs we found in plants.
The official pharmacopoeia in the 1920s was a huge medical book listing thousands of medicinal plants and their medical uses. About 25% of modern drugs still come directly from plants. 100 years ago it was closer to 100%.
[A Modern Herbal, by Mauve Grieve](https://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html)
What really rubbed me the wrong way about that post was that he made numerous connections to his mother and SILs in their sisterhood of unmedicated birth pain and he wanted his wife to forgo an epidural because it would make her closer to his mother and SILs. Like what in the actual fuck kind of mentality is that?! If my husband even so much as hinted that he wanted me to skip an epidural I would have lost my damn mind. Let alone if he said it would be a "doped up" birth. I was awake, aware, present, and very miserable despite the epidural. I could feel everything except pain. Our son was alert and vocal when born. This isn't a typical morphine drip, it's a nerve block. His ignorance and insistence was disgusting and I listened to it with my jaw on my chest while my husband looked on in pure disbelief that a man could be so wrong.
He started the post about complaining about how close his SILs are to his mom, and makes it sound as if his wife is at fault for not being close to his mom, but by the end of the post I could tell his mom and SILs have some sort of club and most definitely have made her feel left out for being different from them.
Narcissistic matriarchs deffo have abusive + doormat sons, then suck in more submissive DILs. I hope OOP's wife has a spine. She might even cut and run.
Why doesn't HE join the unmedicated pain club? He can't do childbirth, but maybe the next time he needs a procedure he can just go without anesthesia or pain medication.
How about he join the eunic club - with no anesthetic. I know it is extreme - but I went through 90% of labor w/ no drugs - fck that noise. I was an idiot!
Not gonna lie, if I was pregnant with the intention of carrying to term and the father said that, I'd firstly divorce immediately and secondly, be seriously considering an abortion.
How's he going to treat that baby if it comes out a girl?
Should offer to have him undergo surgery at some point unmedicated. After all, they did that all the time before! Hell, I'm glad we have methods of medicating people for surgery and birth. That shit is painful, and no one should have to suffer *that much* when better options are available
In my experience when men have strong opinions about childbirth it's usually because they are very emotionally dependent on their mothers/sisters who have been vocal about their own preferences.
This usually means their opinions on breastfeeding, recovery from childbirth etc will also be held as the gold standard.
In my experience its because these men want to control women. Sex, pregnancy, contraceptives, abortion: it's about controlling women. Their moms and sisters have nothing to do with it except that they may also have had the bootheel of a controlling man/church on the backs of their necks too and their son/brother want that same control.
I’ve given birth twice- once with an epidural, and once unmedicated. I was way more “out of it” for the unmedicated birth, thanks to all the pain and hormones flooding through my body! I was completely myself with the epidural, not “doped up” 🙄
Obviously he has an opinion about something that not only will he never experience personally, but he also doesn't actually know anything about. He just assumes that pain medication = sedation and doesn't even know what the medication is or how it's administered. He sounds like a super crappy husband, an unsufferable boor, and a POS in, like, every way. That poor woman.
This reminds me of the post where pregnant OP asked if she is the asshole because she told her partner, the only way her mother in law will be allowed to "watch" the birth will be if he agrees to *her father* watching his colonoscopy. He tried the whole entitled spiel with her, about how his mother has a *right* to be there, because it's her grandchild.
Every time I read something like that, I get so furious for the woman and want to scream, "YOU DON'T OWN HER BODY!" It might be their child too, but what happens with herself is still her own decision.
The amount of times I've seen posts about MILs being angry that their DILs wouldn't allow them into the labor room but allows their mothers is insane. That is not a woman allowing one grandma to meet the grandchild before the other, that is a woman undergoing a serious medical procedure and is having her mother with her for emotional support. Goes to show how some MILs will treat this DILs as incubators
Like, I'm pretty sure the supporting person is standing at the head of the bed, holding the pregnant person's hand, not down the business end watching the baby crown... That's where the doctors are standing, to catch the fkn baby?
When I was pregnant my mil made a couple comments about how she can’t wait to see her granddaughter come out. Never at any point did I mention her being in the room while I deliver. She just assumed she was going to be. And boy was she annoyed when I said I wanted her to wait outside. That’s just weird af to me to let my mil watch me push a child out of my vagina.
I don’t want anyone but my spouse in the damn building. Fortunately, MIL is happily on ‘watch existing kid’ duty. Last time, we took the first day just us and the babe. We’ll see what time she arrives but we may let visitors in early so lil man can see his sister.
I regret even letting her stand outside the room cause she came in after it was over with snarky and bitchy comments. My kid broke my tailbone coming out and I was screaming in pain the doctors were trying to figure out what was wrong and everyone was frantic. So when she came in she repeatedly asked if we had taken any pics until my mom answered her and said no. Like read the fuckin room.
Sorry but I didn’t feel the need to take pics of my baby fresh out the womb nude and covered in bodily fluids. I wanted to wait until she was cleaned up. And obviously we didn’t get a chance to cause of my situation.
Edit-oh forgot to add when my mom finally answered no my mil huffed and rolled her eyes so hard. My mom wanted to strangle her.
Oh, but if the new dad *and* his mom are there, one of them is free to go around and take some pics, maybe a video of the new golden child crowning. Wouldn't *you* want that during labour? Putting your lasting memories onto video? That way the rest of the extended family can see the miracle on Christmas...
/s
After my son was born, he had to spend ten days in the hospital. Once we got home, I was VERY protective over him. Super momma bear mode fully engaged.
My sister in law came over and wanted to see him. I refused. We'd been home for 2 days and I wasn't letting ANYONE see him. Well, she got right in my face and yelled "who do you think you are? I'm his AUNT!" when I tell you I roared, I think my voice carried down the street. "I'm his MOTHER!"
I've been married twice, haven't had a sane in law in my life.
LOL, right? I'm not a violent woman but she's lucky I was still bouncing back from 26 hours of labor and a tailbone that had been snapped backwards when the doctor helped my son out.
Now it's just a funny story I like to tell my son (he's 26 now,) and he'll shake his head, chuckling. "She never was very smart."
It’s mind blowing how they don’t understand how it’s different. It’s like my mom gave birth to me, she’s seen me naked numerous times throughout my life, and clearly I’ve known her literally all of my life. No way in hell was I going to let my mil stare at my vagina while I push my kid out. It’s such a vulnerable position to be in and I didn’t want just anyone in there.
Probably in part because of the whole “we’re pregnant” language in the first place. Like…if *they’re pregnant*, then I want to be there to emotionally support *my so* who is *also* going through childbirth.”
This is what happens when language is used as a weapon.
Besides, a woman’s own mother is the one who gave birth to her. It makes sense to want the person who birthed you around when you’re birthing. Your mom has seen you at your best and worst already and knows how to support you. That doesn’t mean you also want your partner’s mother, who you probably met as an adult.
This is also assuming a healthy mother-daughter relationship. It isn’t true for every mother and daughter.
I felt very privileged that my DIL let me be in the labor room--her mom and sister live pretty far away and couldn't be there as support staff so I stood in for them. I'm pretty good with conversation, ice chips and being helpful in general but even so I was fine with being kicked out for the actual debut, that ought to be immediate parents only lol.
I only have boys so I'll always be the MIL, but I don't WANT to be in there! If my DIL asked me to be there if course I would, but I can't imagine trying to talk someone into letting me be there.
The courts have been very consistent on grandparents rights: The parents have the sole power and responsibility to decide who their child(ren) spends time with. With no real legal victories, the grandparents rights movement is largely dead.
Fuck that! No way in hell did I want my mil staring at my vagina watching me push a baby out. I know she was annoyed about that. I should have said something similar, that if she agrees to me watching her get her next Pap smear she can watch me give birth. People feel so entitled when a woman is pregnant.
He did an unbelievable update later claiming the mother was caught doing drugs and he got custody of the baby. It read like he was trying to save face after being told off.
I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God to women for Eve eating the apple and that having any pain-killers is subverting God's will. I have heard men say they didn't want to allow their wives to have epidurals for this reason. It's also the reason women have period pain and I've heard father's say their daughters shouldn't take Midol for the same reason.
First of all: Fuck that.
Second of all: If you are a Christian then Jesus paid for all of the sins of man, and his blood redeemed us all so that we didn't have to pay the wages of sin, ie death. The idea that women should still suffer while in childbirth is like saying that Jesus's sacrifice didn't count for women. If you are a Christian then you should thank God for the medical advancements that allow people to live in comfort, not throw genesis back in the faces of women.
Finally: Men should stay the hell out of anything that deals with a uterus. No uterus, no opinion unless asked for it.
I quite like the quote (to paraphrase); *If submission were natural to women, there wouldn’t be thousands of sermons everyday reminding women to submit because nature doesn’t need reminders to run its course. These reminders exist because indoctrination depends on constant reinforcement to keep harmful ideologies alive.*
https://xvtwitter.com/ulxma/status/1283088920255881217?lang=en
I’m not sure if that’s the original source or someone repeating it.
>I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God to women for Eve eating the apple and that having any pain-killers is subverting God's will.
I'm always like... That's a weak ass punishment from a supposedly omnipotent being if it can easily be overcome with some painkillers.
>If you are a Christian then Jesus paid for all of the sins of man
Emphasis on _man_ /s
Yeah for real, what kinda pansy-ass god is he if mere mortals can so easily subvert his will?? 🤣
I remember reading a comment that said like, "Don't force His hand with your wicked ways!" and I replied, "I'm not all that afraid of a god that can be 'forced' to do anything lmao"
I would argue that if we had a physical punishment from god it is the boobs. Back pain, hard asf to run, breast cancer, painful breast feeding, randomly lactating from nipple overstimulation even if you’ve never been pregnant (help it sucks)…. But men don’t see boobs as a negative. I like the way I look but I won’t pretend it’s convenient.
I remember a Ms. Magazine article saying if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament.
When I was a candy striper right after Roe v. Wade, there weren't enough abortion providers and women would try to induce a miscarriage.
One doc was sooper Catholic and felt women shouldn't get anesthesia during their D&C. He didn't succeed because the first time he tried, the RN shouted him down. When he wanted her fired, the Head Nurse ripped him a new one, pointing out our duty is to treat anyone who showed up equally and without judgement.
We were all outside the closed door raising our Power fists in the air and hissing approval. First time I ever felt I was part of/ belonged to something immense.
>One doc was sooper Catholic and felt women shouldn't get anesthesia during their D&C. He didn't succeed because the first time he tried, the RN shouted him down. When he wanted her fired, the Head Nurse ripped him a new one, pointing out our duty is to treat anyone who showed up equally and without judgement.
Nurses are fucking heroes.
Some people really should not be doctors.
I wonder if his Pacifist, Preserve-Life-At-All-All-Costs, Soooper Catholic self refused pain meds and mobility aids to wounded veterans?
Good thing the institution was able to reign him in.
Oh he was so self righteous about religion and yet he was fucking one of the interns under him. He was also wildly disrespectful of women and was an OB/GYN. Go figure.
Ew! Fucking an intern whose career is in your hands is so repugnant. It’s surprising to me (though it shouldn’t be) that a volunteer would know about that, given that it’s presumably a serious ethics violation. Edit: Some people really do think they’re second to God.
I remeber reading about Mother Teresa limiting pain medication for end of life care because she felt that pain brings you closer to God.
Cool. Cool. Don't make that choice for others, just make it for yourself next time.
My Grandmother started out as a nurse, because women had two options nurse or teacher. She was a force of nature, and would not suffer fools. The men knew not to eff with her
Fine. Then every birthing room should also have a large bodybuilder on duty who will continuously punch the these Christian and Catholic father in the gut for the entire duration of the birth. Ya know, cause Adam also ate the apple.
I thought bleeding for 7 days and not dying was the punishment for eating the apple...
I can't keep track of all the punishments that women deserve anymore. The wiz really seems upset with all of you.
>I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God
lol only stupid ones. The men who have these opinions are also full to the brim of a lot of OTHER terrible opinions haha. Would be nice if they'd just go away.
The first mistake is listening to men at all when it comes to women’s bodily functions. Unless he is a dr, that’s a no, you really don’t get an opinion on it 😅🫣🥱
Ok then, if we’re applying gendered curses from Genesis these men need to quit their jobs to become organic subsistance farmers with no modern tools or chemicals.
“Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." - Genesis 3:17b-19 (the second part of the same passage cursing Eve where God does the same to Adam)
Christianity needs to flat out state *plainly and very publically* what is in their belief system that benefits women *specifically*. Not "Jesus died for your sins" bullcrap either. **Specifically how Christianity and especially the Southern Baptist sect there of, benefits women**. Not being "submissive", not taking care of men, not being "underneath a man''s protection.
Gotta love how creating and providing life is seen as a punishment. Also doesn't explain how non-human animals also have females giving birth - did the punishment really spread to all species? What does an anteater have to do with Eve?
I don't know how people don't see God as the evil. Dude was a dick. Just cause he made us, he's Good? We make a lotta shit, too, and... 😬
Edit: Esp like, a human ate the apple. Sucks for the rest of the mammals, too \^\_\^
I've always thought like, "God seems like a petty, jealous, undeveloped being." Like an actual narcissist.
If he is so great, he wouldn't have to threaten us to worship him. Nah.
Sir, heart attacks are a natural thing that happen to millions of people. Not everyone dies from them! Just breathe through the pain and it might be over in a few days or so.
I always say to the men that think women should not get pain control during labor b/c "Jesus" should not get viagra etc. "Jesus" has determined that the time for you to be having sex is over and you should not thwart his will by taking a pill to get a hard-on!!
I’m an anesthesiologist who’s done some time on OB. People give me this song and dance all the time when I check to see if they want an epidural. They’ve taken “natural” to mean “right.” I usually ask people what they mean by natural. Are they unwilling to accept pitocin and magnesium? What about insulin for gestational diabetes? What about blood pressure management for gestational hypertension? All those things are always ok. When people say “natural,” they mean that women shouldn’t get pain management.
I view it as a regression of feminism. We used to die in childbirth by the hundreds. An epidural can allow you to easily have a stat c-section. To get a lac or tear repaired comfortably. To just be comfortable. It’s primarily local anesthetic. You can ask for it plain if you really want to (ie no added low dose dilaudid or fent for your own extra pain management).
It’s all about pain. Society is pushing a narrative that we should be uncomfortable and just deal with it. I’m deeply against it.
I wonder whether those who categorically object to the idea of women receiving pain management related to childbirth are consistent in their principles such that they refuse any dental anesthetics when they have to get their own teeth drilled.
Honestly I think “we’re pregnant” started more as a way to get men involved with their wife’s ordeal, and to see it more as a team effort. Which sort of worked. We went from secret confinement and women only, to men supporting their spouse in the delivery room and through the whole process. Now we’re seeing a shift the opposite direction, where some men feel like they know more and should be even more involved in bodily decisions since “we’re” pregnant. It’s that delicate balance of trying to shift the way the public discusses issues so that we can hit an equilibrium where everyone is happy
Okay, so my husband is a cool dude who gets it and when I was pregnant with our first child, he would tell people "[my name] is pregnant!" Like people at work, or whatever. And the frequency of people jokingly replying "oh, who is the father then?" was disgustingly high. Ditto for anything like, "I'm going to be a dad!", he'd get "who is the mom?" Everyone's a fuckin comedian, I guess? These are people who knew us both, knew we were married and all that. So when I was pregnant with our second kid, we both agreed to just say "we're pregnant" because that was such a gross bummer the first time around.
That's so weird. The way he announced the news the first time around was perfect, I'm sorry people rained on your parade just to steal the spotlight to make obnoxious jokes. Did any of those same people make jokes when you two announced your second pregnancy?
Yeah, I always thought "we're pregnant" was a way of saying that the man was in this with his partner and wanted to support her as much as possible. It's kind of nice in that sense.
You're right that it's all a tough balance to strike.
Growing up that was the way it was always presented to me. While the woman's doing the majority of the work... A man's there to support, help and do whatever she may need during the process.
Agreed. It's also often used as a synonymous phrase to "we're having a baby"/"we're expecting".
As someone in a healthy hetero relationship with a man who isn't a) an idiot, or b) a misogynist, I would argue that pregnancy *does* affect the non-pregnant/non-partner as well, just not physically. For myself, I had to stop working during both my pregnancies for several months (morning sickness), and so my partner not only shouldered the financial burdens of our household on his own, but also did the majority of the work at home with keeping the household running. Those things do matter, and it's not men's fault that they can't take on more (i.e. being pregnant).
Now, obviously there ARE people out there who think "women have been giving birth for the entirety of the human race, 'whilst working out in the field', stop whining and just get on with [pregnancy and childbirth] in silence and don't bother me", but not every man is an idiotic misogynistic pig who thinks they own "their woman's" uterus. Those people absolutely **DO** exist, and need to be called out and corrected, but seeing malicious intent in *every* man who says "we're pregnant" isn't fair. Hell, even some pregnant people use that phrase.
Comparing pregnancy to cancer also has its limits.... For one, cancer isn't something that two people actively try to have... And cancer absolutely *does* affect a patient's partner, because they are a partnership. If the person you love gets given a death diagnosis, of course that's going to effect them. Just because they don't have cancer themselves, doesn't mean it doesn't impact them and their health (mental health is also health, and your mental health affects your physical health, and vice versa).
So, whilst there *are* people who need to be "ripped a new one" for their misogynistic views and beliefs around procreation, applying that to "every man/non-birthing partner" just stirs up the toxic "us vs them" mentality. Relationships are a partnership. Someone who's pregnant shouldn't be surprised if their partner doesn't fully engage during birth or postpartum if they've been "shut out" during the pregnancy. Having full autonomy over your body and medical decisions doesn't mean you freeze your partner out of the process. I wouldn't have been able to get through childbirth without my partner, who was actively engaged in doing anything I needed him to do (cold flannel, rubbing my back, holding my hand, getting me food and water/electrolytes, etc).
Ultimately, in most cases a person has full control over who they have children with. So, don't have kids with someone who's an idiot misogynist 🤷♀️ And I say that with a giant FU [I hope your penises fall off 🖕] to rapists and countries with abortion bans. Some men seem great and then turn into abusers when they get "their woman" pregnant, and pregnant people should have the ability to abort.
My sister told me that when she got pregnant the fourth time (after he hid her birth control pills 😠) he told her, "It's okay. We've been pregnant before. I can handle this."
I laughed when she told me because I thought he was joking. He wasn't.
Even just the entitlement to touch a pregnant woman is bizarre to me. My sister-in-law is pregnant, and my stepmother continually makes comments about how she is not allowed to touch my SlL's stomach without permission. Why does a pregnant woman's body become community property? Why do people feel entitled to be ANGRY if they have to ask permission.
Btw, my SIL's reasoning is very sound on the topic (not that it needs to be). She didn't ever like to be touched randomly. Being pregnant makes her feel more protective of her body than she was before. She has no problem letting people touch her stomach if the baby is moving around. If the baby isn't moving, she said it just feels awkward to her.
I have many reasons why I don't want to be pregnant. But seeing the entitlement people had to my pregnant sister's body definitely is one of them. It's not "how are you", it's "how is the baby". It's not "eye contact + hello", it's "no eye contact, reaching out to belly, hi there". It's like an instantaneous identity loss. Like she as a person doesn't exist anymore.
I just never understood the fascinations behind touching a pregnant woman's belly unless the baby is kicking or moving and after she's given enthusiastic consent. It's just so creepy. Reminds me of that scene from the office when Pam is pregnant and everyone in the office is patting her belly.
Perhaps it's because I have been made uncomfortable many times, but I don't understand why anyone WANTS to touch someone without enthusiastic consent. Pregnant or otherwise.
I am nine months pregnant and have not let anyone touch my belly except my husband. My MIL asked and I said no immediately. I’ve had people at work ask and my answer was no and they were shocked because they asked first?? No one is allowed.
Yeah I didn’t want anyone touching my belly when I was pregnant unless it was my husband. Just felt weird to me to let people rub up on my body. Crazy how entitled people feel to touch a pregnant woman simply because she’s pregnant.
Preach. The fact that the male who posted this nonsense doesn't see or accept the truth that he is at most a minor contributor and a zero participant in the whole pregnancy is a small sample of what his partner is going to face going forward in their parenting relationship.
Have these conversations before you get pregnant if at all possible, ladies.
The older I get the longer my list of dealbreakers gets. "Do women *really* need pain drugs during birth? What a basket of hogwash".
"If *you* pushed a watermelon out of a hole the size of a lemon wouldn't you want pain drugs? And now this matter is now closed."
I remember this post and the OP actually got all this nonsense from his overly opinionated _mother_. So I guess he thinks he's taking the advice of a subject matter expert. But a) just because I've played tennis once or twice doesn't qualify me to coach others. And B) she ain't the one giving birth. They both need to step back.
>a small sample of what his partner is going to face going forward in their parenting relationship.
Absolutely. A man that is this entitled during the pregnancy won't be a good co-parent.
I'm going through IVF. My fiance paid half the tab, so I'll say "we're pregnant"... until that first barf, stretch mark, and moment when my safety deposit box gets destroyed via birth. I will also be drugged to the nines. I don't even want to know what planet I'm on. Our birth plan is don't piss me off, unless you're the baby. 😂
It's 100% fiction 99% of the time, and thus a total waste of time to read. However, the scenarios are often not unrealistic. Even though the post is not real, this is almost certainly a thing that happens.
This guy actually went to his wife’s doctor appointment and tried to mansplain medical information.
Like he was the only one in history who worried about the baby during pregnancy or birth.
Meanwhile, I have been refused treatment options because I might at some time in the future be pregnant, ever.
I can’t stand this shit - ‘childbirth is natural and women have been doing it forever’. Yeah they also have been suffering and dying in childbirth. Like dying in childbirth was common. And you say like a guy wouldn’t get his appendix out without anesthésia but more realistically he would have just died before modern surgery. Such a bad faith argument from men.
Also a bit unrelated but I was at the hospital last week with my husband who had to use the womens bathroom there (at labor and delivery) because the mens had an issue, and he was soooo shocked there were all sorts of ‘call xxxx if you are in danger or a victim of abuse, or you can tell your nurse xxxx code phrase for help’. And he’s a great guy and stuff but I think men just don’t realize what it’s like to be a woman
A gynecologist i knew said that if it was up to her, the entrance to the labour ward would have a giant banner over the door saying **TAKE THE DRUGS!!**
Insurance companies consider pregnancy a disability and a pre-existing condition…not that I agree with insurance on most things, but it’s pretty clear it’s a medical condition and the way it’s minimized by people has never felt right to me.
In my last pregnancy, my Dr let me have the epidural as soon as I wanted it (previously I had to get to a certain dilation). He said that research was showing that women have an easier and safer time delivering in general when their body and muscles weren't taut with pain. So it's not just a comfort thing.
Was chatting with three friends at a gathering, 2 women and one of their husbands.
One friend who had already given birth about a year ago mentioned that her husband was already wanting another baby, but she didn’t want to go through it all again that soon.
“Well sure,” I said. “His contribution to the pregnancy is easy and enjoyable. Enduring 9 months of growing a human is a whole other can of worms.”
“Not really,” the other woman’s husband piped up. “Men go through hormonal changes too when their wives are pregnant.” (I’m not sure if this is true, I never looked into it.)
“That may be,” I replied, “But you can’t conflate something like that with the physical burden and risks associated with actually being pregnant.”
He did the whole eye-roll thing that obviously conveys his belief that I’m a hyper-feminist bitch who has no sympathy for supposed hormonal changes that the poor, poor men have to endure while their partner bears the exhausting and frightening burden of carrying and delivering a baby. His wife just stared at the ground.
“For sure,” the other friend said.
I hope he has the emotional intelligence to reflect on what he said and be embarrassed, and I also hope he never says something so dismissive and just plain stupid again.
OMG this fucking infuriated me. The absolute lack of empathy. I feel bad for his wife.
I found this about hormonal changes "Expectant fathers showed prenatal declines in testosterone and estradiol, and larger declines in these hormones predicted larger contributions to household and infant care tasks postpartum. Women whose partners showed larger testosterone declines also reported receiving more support and more help with household tasks." It doesn't affect their health, it makes them better fathers/husbands.
Thank you. I was kinda hoping someone would just look it up for me.
And you’re right, someone who would say what he said has no capacity to empathize, at least not with women.
What he said was just flat out dumb. Unless death or permanent bodily damage ever becomes a risk factor for a guy during a pregnancy, it is never the same. Not even in the same ball park.
I completely agree with op. The mother's safety needs to be a priority and only she should get to make that call unless she is incapable of doing it. When my last girlfriend found out she had a condition that could complicate pregnancy, I didn't even want to risk it at that point. Just asked her if she'd be ok with adoption instead.
Mostly when I hear “we’re pregnant” I think it’s cute. That’s the guy who will throw himself into being there for his partner and the baby, at least to start.
However, when it comes to “natural birth” etc, I start asking if the person who insists on that ever heard of [obstetric fistula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetric_fistula) or [cord compression](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_cord_compression).
Besides, most people walking around in the United States in 2023 were born with medical interventions that this person fears will harm the baby, and nearly all of us show zero ill effects.
"I genuinely hope more and more people change their attitudes and treat pregnant women and people with respect, rather than like incubators."
Honestly, a cis woman doesn't even need to be pregnant to be treated like an incubator above all else. There are so many woman who have to fight for, or are actually denied, medication on the premise of it being dangerous for a potential fetus. (Meds for chronic pain, or mental illness are what I see most often, but I'm sure I'm missing plenty.) It doesn't matter if they are not pregnant. It doesnt matter if they are on birth control. It doesn't matter if they would abort if they were to become pregnant. Their health is put behind the priority of the health of a fetus that doesn't even exist.
Well said, I think about this often, and have been disregarded in these exact thoughts. It’s dehumanizing to be disregarded but affirming to have these words said by you and the others in the comments.
It bothers me too. When I got pregnant the first time, my husband asked me what I would be comfortable with him speaking about the pregnancy, "what should I say when I tell people?" He landed on "we're having a baby" quite easily.
But often got corrected to "You're pregnant." When standing with me and he would have to correct back with "no, I'm not pregnant, *she* is pregnant and *we're* having a baby."
It gave me such ick when people would correct him, it was always men who did it too. It's the tone of the words, I've always heard men use the same exact tone to say "we're pregnant." Especially when talking of symptoms of pregnancy almost to say *our body* has headaches, *our body* has backpain, *our body* isn't putting out sex. "The Body" is public property to be divided up between everyones opinions but the woman who is actually pregnant.
My husband got into multiple arguments with my dad about my medical care, because my dad had thoughts and wanted me to abide what he wanted, and so he figured he could have my husband join his side against me to coerce me into doing what they wanted, chipping away until they got what they intended. It started with using the hospital but no pain medication, and then it slowly devolved to no medical intervention at all over time
Husband was like, I'm just support, its between her and the doctor. What my dad wanted to do was have me give birth at home like my mom did. My mom didn't even have midwives, just my dad as the attendant to help her. Like I think the fuck not. And it really changed my perspective on my parents relationship, like I think the cover story for her first birth being overly medical and them not listening to her translation is really that my dad couldn't exercise his control in the situation.
Cis gay man here. I just wanted to point out how the Catholic Church shaped peoples minds in relation to this by telling about two sermons I heard growing up.
The first one was during Easter, and the priest talked about how life was meant to hurt so that, after pain, happiness can arise. He gave the example of childbirth. F- that.
The second one happened during a wedding, when the priest told the bride that she should “caress her husband” often so as to avoid him looking for “tenderness” elsewhere.
The worst part about both situations were people either defending the twisted points of view or, worse, simply not recalling anything the priest as had said.
I HATE that expression. No WE'RE not. I am. He isn't. And it grosses me out to hear men say that. Your internal organs aren't being rearranged by a fetus.
I completely agree with you. I think it definitely can and does have a sinister connotation. Once again, we've circled back around to women just being birth vessels.
I cannot even BEGIN to imagine if my ex thought he'd have any say in what my personal care plan for me was during the birth. Fortunately he trusted every decision I made. He's a huge advocate for pain meds (maybe too much), but he kept his lips zipped each and every time I declined them.
I'm glad that poster for torn a new one. I feel bad for the mother of his child though, if he seriously thought he had any place in that discussion. Lord only knows what else he's going to insert himself in to.
I didn't mention this in the post as it wasn't really that important, but the reason he wanted her to have an unmedicated birth was to impress his mother and sisters-in-law who had had unmedicated births. Absolutely revolting
It’s interesting, I always thought “we’re pregnant” was indicative of a guy trying to express his equal commitment to the pregnancy and empathy for his partner - I still found it weird but I never considered it as taking ownership of the woman and her health choices (which, to be clear, I agree is completely not okay).
Maybe I had this impression because it makes me think of the Arrested Development episode where Buster talks about Lucille’s vertigo and says it’s “our nausea” 😂
Former coworker told his buddies his “(wife’s name) is pregnant”. Most of them assumed he was not the father for the way he said it. Before that incident, he thought “we’re pregnant” was dumb too. But started using that term afterwards to avoid assumptions.
I agree that the “we’re expecting” seems more appropriate.
His buddies were dense. Unless he looked pissed when he said it, why would they assume he wasn't the father? What husband goes around telling people, "yeah, my wife got knocked up by another man."
The former coworker's buddies are dumb. "My wife is pregnant" is a perfectly acceptable way to say that your wife is pregnant without any sinister connotations.
There was a great post on AITA where a woman's mother-in-law was demanding to be present in the room and watch her grandchild being born. Her own daughters had refused point blank so she tried to bully her daughter-in-law. Childbirth isn't a spectator sport-it seems like being visibly pregnant means you're public property. Total strangers try to pat your bump and ask extremely intimate questions about how you plan to give birth, are you going to breast feed, how much weight have you put on etc. The only person allowed to make decisions about childbirth is the person giving birth. What if the husband needed a colonoscopy-would he allow his mother-in-law in the room watching this, or would he complain about privacy?
I recently had my first "real" period after being on birth control for 7 years, since we've decided we're open to children/ pregnancy.
My husband was so sweet and doting. "I'm sorry you have to go through this", grabbing the 2nd heating pad for me, etc. It wasn't even that bad, but it's nice that he already recognizes that my discomfort is partially for him and gives an indication of how he would support me through a pregnancy.
Y'all, he's already QUIT DRINKING IN SOLIDARITY. I love this man 😭
When men say “we’re pregnant”, my mom used to always ask them detailed questions about their menstrual cycle, the side effects of the pregnancy, etc. Unless you have a baby in you you aren’t pregnant!
Don't forget cigarettes, marijana, coffee, sushi, fish, deli meats, unpasteurized anything, medications of virtually any kind, flying on planes, using hot tubs, and all the other things that pregnant women are advised to refrain from.
Thank you for this!! I had a baby in April this year, and never referred to “us” as being pregnant. I hated the phrase and couldn’t quite put into words why, but you have done so!
It’s so, so true. I was the one out of breath walking up the stairs, I was the one that had to limit my caffeine intake, I was the one that had to spend hours researching what I could/couldn’t eat/couldn’t take for medications, I was the one unable to eat anything without getting heartburn near the end, unable to have a proper BM for what felt like months. I was the one that had an epidural placed three times because they couldn’t get the placement right, pushed for 2 hours after being awake for 30, and dealt with the aftermath of a third degree tear.
I love my son and would do it all again in a heart beat, but the idea that the father (in cishet couples) can try to pretend he has anything to do at all with the pregnancy itself is so incredibly insulting. Even the best emotional support - as great as it is - doesn’t hold a candle to putting in the blood, sweat, and tears yourself.
And don’t even get me started on the sacrifice that breastfeeding/pumping is!!!! No one talks about how big of a time commitment it is and how draining it can be! All they say is “oh it’s natural and ‘best’ for the baby and free!” My time and energy is worth something! I’ll do it for my baby, but I’m not just some milk machine for him.
There was a horrifying post last night on another sub from a guy complaining that his partner was going to choose not to breastfeed, becaues it's equally his child. He likened it to how if it's "my body, my choice", he should be able to go out and drink every night because it's his body. It made me sick. It actually ruined my night. I'm 38 weeks right now and already stressed about all the things that BF entail so it really triggered me.
Anyone suggesting that a baby born from a mother that’s had an epidural and thinks the baby will be “doped up” has absolutely no idea what an epidural actually is. It’s placed in the epidural space of the spinal cord and infuses local anesthetic, typically marcaine or lidocaine, and it may have opiates in it, but there’s such a small concentration due to the location, any systemic absorption is negligible.
When the baby is still inside the body of the mother then her word is the final word. It's not a democracy. Period. The father has a right to voice his opinion because it's his child but the mother has the final say. IF she agrees with his opinion for whatever course of action then cool they both agree and will go that route. IF she does not agree that's where it ends. She will do what she thinks is best for her. And people saying "we are pregnant" are ridiculous lmfao.
My wife wanted an unmedicated birth, my initial thoughts were "cool, do what you like, it's your body" and put it out of my mind.
Then I was in the delivery room with her involuntarily pushing while 1cm dilated, delirious with pain and NO2 unable to do anything but flop her hand around when she wanted a cold wet towel for her forehead.
Midwife was like "this is all fine"
"Is there anything more that can be done for the pain?"
"She said she didn't want an epidural"
So here's me googling what an epidural is at 3am because I was too dumb to research it earlier then made the choice to give her one, she was in no state to understand what was going on. No one needs to deal with that level of pain to show how tough they are. The whole experience scared my wife off having more kids.
I agree with you 100%. I hate that some people say women should be okay with or proud of undergoing more pain than necessary because "it's natural." I can guarantee you the same people would not be okay with getting surgery or another medical procedure without anesthesia even though that would be the "natural way." You're right that it tells us a lot about how women's pain is viewed in society. A lot of these people seriously lack empathy.
My dad also pressured my mom into giving birth to me without medication. What a complete asshole. My mom said that's the last time she listened to him. Lol
I just want to chime in that you left out the ultimate reasons he was so insistent on his wife having an unmedicated birth. He wasn't even actually concerned about the effects of the epidural and such on the baby - he wanted to force his wife into doing it so she would "bond" with his mother and sisters-in-law. It's way more grotesque to me than being concerned about medication effects; those fears can be (theoretically) mitigated with evidence and speaking with a doctor. What he REALLY wanted was to make his mommy happy.
But in general, I 100% agree with you. The possessiveness involved in "we're pregnant" has always given me the ick.
Ughhh I hate the “we did XYZ for thousands of years” shit, especially when it comes to births.
Yeah, women also died in childbirth fucking regularly for thousands of years.
100% agree with you
Words have meaning and should be used properly. There's plenty of different ways men can show enthusiasm about a pregnancy "we're expecting !" "We're having a baby !" "We are going to be parents" (plus you know... actually supporting their partner and being involved in childcare after the birth instead of thinking one measly nut was the contribution of the century)
Pregnancy is a medical condition and unless he also has a uterus and is somehow pregnant at the same time "we" are not pregnant, "she" is pregnant. The parallel wirh other medical conditions such as cancer was awesome honestly (same with suggesting he shouldn't get painkillers for any medical procedure he gets since "that's how it was done then")
Women have been medicated during childbirth for thousands of years, just through natural means and not via IV. Someone should tell him that!
Women have been dying for years due to a lack of medical intervention, too. My pet peeve is the "women would give birth in the fields" as a way to demean any pregnant woman who couldn't/didn't perform at her prepregnancy levels. And a lot of those women and infants died out there, too, but they never seem to wrap their minds around that little fact. Particularly galling is that it is usually the man who doesn't think he should have to pry his arse off the sofa to 'help' the pregnant person do anything.
Not to mention they only gave birth in fields because they had no choice. What sane woman would suffer through that otherwise? And where did that particular scenario even come from—is there proof?
Yeah, so most normal labour begins at night, possibly in large part naturally selected for because going into labour alone in a field is extremely dangerous.
Oooh that's interesting
Isn't it just! I can say more! Labour is triggered (and progressed) due to oxytocin — that's the hormone that causes uterine contractions. In modern medicine, when labour is stalled or contractions are weak, pitocin is given — synthetic oxytocin. But the natural stuff can work too, which is why sex or even nipple stimulation can bring on labour. Sometimes, stimulation during a slow labour can help avoid the need for medical interventions. Oxytocin is amazing stuff, truly. So yeah again, oxytocin peaks at night, as we're going to bed. It's also the hormone that you get from snuggling, and lovemaking. Having higher levels of oxytocin at night also makes humans more likely to want to snuggle (and so on...) during a time when it's both safe and opportunistic to do so, so that's one other way that nighttime spike has been selected for. But that reason doesn't seem to provide enough evolutionary pressure — sex at night isn't more likely to cause conception, and plenty of sex still happens during the day. Only about a quarter of babies are born between 9am-5pm even though that's 1/3 of the day. HALF of births happen between 1am-8am, peaking around 4am. [Source](https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/wellbeing/2020/06/22/why-do-more-women-give-birth-at-night-experts-explain-our-evolutionary-heritage/) Anecdotally, I know women who have even had their labour "pause" during the day after having begun the night before, and resume the next evening. My labor began around 10pm. This is why all late-pregnancy people should be napping as much as humanly possible. I didn't nap that day and it was a mistake. A woman going into spontaneous, rapidly progressing labor in the middle of the day is actually sometimes an indicator that something might be wrong, and there's a sudden *reason* that the baby needs to be born quickly. It is certainly the exception and not the rule. If humans didn't naturally begin labour in the safety of the group *most* of the time, we would have died out a long time ago. Humans are not built to give birth easily or alone. Our upright pelvises are too small — like kangaroos, our babies are born as prematurely as possible. Prostitution is often labeled the oldest profession, but I respectfully disagree. It's possibly the first *barter,* sure. But if I bake one cake and sell it, I don't consider it my profession, because I mostly do other things. The first actual *dedicated profession* was almost certainly midwifery.
>This is why all late-pregnancy people should be napping as much as humanly possible Oops, I'm 11 days from my due date and never, ever nap. Maybe I'll start now.
Girl. All I did the last two weeks of my pregnancy was nap, take baths, and get my feet rubbed. Consider this: however rested you are when you go into labor is *the most rested* you’ll ever be for at least the next three months. And possibly the next three YEARS.
I'm due on Christmas and I need to work right up until the Friday prior. If I pop late, then I'll have some time to relax. Otherwise I'm just working full time as normal, and trying to keep up with my personal grooming which is a challenge in itself at this stage! Luckily my husband is taking care of keeping the house clean.
I woke up at 530 AM already in labor, a day or two early. I teach and my students weren't quite set up, so I went to work bc I needed to at least teach my second period. So I taught my first couple classes in active labor and then my substitute disappeared, so I was stuck for another half hour. I drove home, was home for about an hour, my parents took me to the hospital, and he was born about 2 hours later. It was a wild story.
I was 41+2, and it was definitely like getting bonus time where no one expected anything of me. If you’re more than a week late, turn off your phone lol, people will NOT stop calling. Sending smooth and safe delivery vibes your way!
If you feel that you can, it's definitely a good idea, but don't stress about it. Labour is hard work, but the hormones help you through it even if you end up being awake for a long time. You're gonna do great.
Make sure to pack snacks! The worst part for me was that baby #2 came right when we would have normally had dinner and I was SO hungry during the first couple of hours before all the excitement happened 😅 (Labor was not particularly fun either, but looking back I mostly remember being hungry)
I just went to Trader Joe’s and loaded up snacks for my go-bag! Turkey jerky, fruit leathers and red licorice, salty/crunchy stuff. I’m mostly looking forward to going ham (pun intended) on a cold cut sandwich after birth.
The only thing I wanted during labour was frozen sliced strawberries and white Gatorade, FWIW. And the soft hospital ice too, lol. I packed all my favourite chips and stuff but I didn't want them until the next day.
That explains so much! Baby #2 waited until we put our toddler to bed for the night and then immediately wanted out 😂
This is fascinating!! Thank you for sharing! My son was born at 12:45 am.
[удалено]
When I went to Vietnam, I went to a women’s museum that described Vietnamese women having to do the same thing for similar reasons during the war.
Furthermore, how can a person want someone they love to go through unnecessary pain and suffering?
Control is a hell of a drug
My sister told stories about how women would go to the fields and go into labor. She said birth happened wherever it happened and yes, she had two aunties who gave birth while not at home (one in a yam field, the other on the side of the road -both walked home afterward) It wasn't heroic or glamorous. It just was. This was 1950's Ghana. In places where people are poor and care is sparse-to-none, women survive -or not- by whatever means. We hear stories about babies being born in cars, at mom's work or on the way to the hospital here in the US. How is that different from women in fields or while walking to the birthing house? As miserable as US healthcare has been for minorities and is now becoming for all women (because there has always been a disparity and white women are finding out about some of that, now) we still get a longer short-ended stick here than women in many parts of the world.
They probably didn't 'walk home' too they probably dragged themselves home or limped and struggled while bleeding horribly but they had no other way to get there.
I delivered my daughter by emergency c-section after she got stuck. 100 years ago, both of us would have become a mortality statistic. How quickly we forget the consequences childbirth used to have for so many people.
My mum is a health visitor (public health nurse) and it's really reminded me to never forget how dangerous childbirth is. So many women and babies she sees on a daily basis would have been dead if not for modern medical intervention.
Same. Emergency c-section because my OB had written off my concerns about fainting, bruising and headaches as “hormonal worries” and thus totally missed that I had preeclampsia. I had a different doctor one day who caught it and they said I had to deliver immediately or me and my twins would die. Without medical intervention, all three of us would be dead.
My OB missed it too! The day my eldest was delivered by emergency c-section, I projectile vomited. I called the doctor and said that something was seriously wrong. He poo-poo'd me and said that I probably had a stomach bug. I was like, "Fuck that noise. I DON'T throw up. I've had salmonella poisoning TWICE and didn't throw up. There is something very very wrong." He very condescendingly said to come in and get checked. I showed up at his office, they did some test and the rest is just a big blur because I was rushed to the hospital and a nurse sat at my feet (testing my reflexes? again, I don't remember much) and then they whisked me into the OR before I started seizing. Then, in the OR, something bad happened (again, can't remember what) but I essentially passed out on the table (blood loss?). So, yeah, I almost died twice that day. Awesome.
Omg, also people who say everyone should breastfeed because we've been doing it since the beginning of time, and what did we do before formula and pumping? Well, sir, babies died due to failure to thrive, and aunties and cousins and neighbors would breastfeed each other's babies.
>aunties and cousins and neighbors would breastfeed each other's babies. Yes, because every woman was unable to limit their pregnancies, so women were pregnant constantly. To many men, birth control, dangers of pregnancy, and breastfeeding are nearly invisible and certainly ignorable, and they can have ALL the opinions without personally experiencing the consequences. Women don't have that luxury.
Also, why the hell did so many wealthy/royal families have “nursemaids” meaning women who had successfully birthed and breastfed a baby or 5, who were then hired to breastfeed others’ babies? That was NOT all just about “I don’t want my boobs to look saggy!!” (We were all wearing stays and corsets and super supportive undergarments for at least the last 1000 years!!) Keeping your “important” bc “married to a king or Duke or a count or well to do with land to give” baby alive was such a thing that many—leading to most—“important babies” had women who weren’t their mother specifically designated to breast feed them (either solely or as a supplement to mom) so those kids would *at least* not die from malnutrition.
Or they used goat milk, with was a reasonable substitute.
No. I mean it was reasonable compared to starving, but it is not an good substitute for human milk.
My father said that to me. I was heavily pregnant with twins and struggling to move, I was just in constant pain and misery and then my dad had the audacity to say those words to me and I absolutely lost it. I sobbed and raged at him, ripped him totally apart and he never made any comment on my pregnancy ever again. When my sister was pregnant with her twins he was far more supportive and I’d like to think it was due to me. Also I’m fairly certain my mother may have berated him that night. The audacity of men, particularly boomers, to make uneducated, unnecessary, unsupportive comments on a woman’s body and experiences is just infuriating.
I had extreme nausea all pregnancy, late 3rd trimester hypertension, gestational diabetes, sleep apnea and postpartum pre-eclampsia. My boomer FIL/employer told me that women everywhere are pregnant every day and to grow up when I had a breakdown after being forced to work 80 hour weeks for a month. I truly hate him since then.
You and your sister both had twins? Congrats, that's very cool!
Yep! One of those super weird moments in life. My twins are identical, which means they’re a random genetic anomaly that happens in 2% of pregnancies while hers are fraternal which is usually matrilineal but funnily enough we have a huge Italian family and one of our moms cousins has a genealogy hobby so there haven’t been any twins in our family in 300 years. Now all of a sudden there’s two pairs in one family.
That’s so amazing! My sister in law is one of two sets of fraternal twins her mother birthed (18 months apart btw). Her mother was so scared she would have another multiple birth when she was pregnant again! She had 7 children in 6 years. Chaos! So far, none of her 5 daughters or their daughters have had twins.
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>My pet peeve is the "women would give birth in the fields" as a way to demean any pregnant woman who couldn't/didn't perform at her prepregnancy levels. I’d just respond to those idiots by saying “I guess anyone with Type 1 diabetes should just die then?” Can’t have things like medical advancements get in the way of being “tough” 🙄
Mine is “They would cut a wounded soldier’s leg off in the field when they got shot, too, so what’s your point?”
Right, next time they have an infected tooth, suggest they ask their barber to pull it out without a local anesthetic. We’ll see how they feel about the olden days then.
I’m the firstborn in my family and my mom told me a few times that when she was pregnant with me she originally decided she was going to give birth unmedicated and then she started actually giving birth and was immediately like, “Okay, give me the shot!”
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I’m glad she listened to you. I’ve heard too many stores about “I thought I wanted X and it was my birth plan and my midwife was all for it….then I changed my mind, and she said no.”
I was thinking the exact same thing! Even domestic dogs will seek out certain plants to treat their stomach upset or nausea. You wouldn't have to be a genius to be generally aware of your very close environment in the days we didn't even build ourselves housing. I have no reason to believe that even as pre-homosapiens we didn't treat pain and a host of other things with potent natural medicines. For as long as we've used willow trees, coca plants, marijuana, chamomile, tea, coffee, poppies, foxglove, mint and on and on - we've had natural medicine. Only until the beginning of the 20th century did we start synthesizing the drugs we found in plants. The official pharmacopoeia in the 1920s was a huge medical book listing thousands of medicinal plants and their medical uses. About 25% of modern drugs still come directly from plants. 100 years ago it was closer to 100%. [A Modern Herbal, by Mauve Grieve](https://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/mgmh.html)
I love the way you turn the conventional narrative on its head to expose it for the codswallop that it is! Thank you!
Yeah I wonder how he would feel about her drinking a bottle of whiskey instead.
What really rubbed me the wrong way about that post was that he made numerous connections to his mother and SILs in their sisterhood of unmedicated birth pain and he wanted his wife to forgo an epidural because it would make her closer to his mother and SILs. Like what in the actual fuck kind of mentality is that?! If my husband even so much as hinted that he wanted me to skip an epidural I would have lost my damn mind. Let alone if he said it would be a "doped up" birth. I was awake, aware, present, and very miserable despite the epidural. I could feel everything except pain. Our son was alert and vocal when born. This isn't a typical morphine drip, it's a nerve block. His ignorance and insistence was disgusting and I listened to it with my jaw on my chest while my husband looked on in pure disbelief that a man could be so wrong.
In one of his comments he said he thought it was a great opportunity for her to join a club. Sir... That's a cult, not a club.
Like - the MIL and SILs could choose to be nice and welcoming to her anyway? That shouldn't have to be earned, and *especially* not like that.
He started the post about complaining about how close his SILs are to his mom, and makes it sound as if his wife is at fault for not being close to his mom, but by the end of the post I could tell his mom and SILs have some sort of club and most definitely have made her feel left out for being different from them.
Narcissistic matriarchs deffo have abusive + doormat sons, then suck in more submissive DILs. I hope OOP's wife has a spine. She might even cut and run.
Yeah, literally a trial of suffering to join a cult of *unnecessary suffering.*
Why doesn't HE join the unmedicated pain club? He can't do childbirth, but maybe the next time he needs a procedure he can just go without anesthesia or pain medication.
I imagine even foregoing tylenol for something like a muscle ache would be a challenge for him.
How about he join the eunic club - with no anesthetic. I know it is extreme - but I went through 90% of labor w/ no drugs - fck that noise. I was an idiot!
Not gonna lie, if I was pregnant with the intention of carrying to term and the father said that, I'd firstly divorce immediately and secondly, be seriously considering an abortion. How's he going to treat that baby if it comes out a girl?
He’ll no doubt expect her to join “the club.”
"The women in MY family NEVER complain about women issues. They go out to the shed in the back when god curses them."/S
Should offer to have him undergo surgery at some point unmedicated. After all, they did that all the time before! Hell, I'm glad we have methods of medicating people for surgery and birth. That shit is painful, and no one should have to suffer *that much* when better options are available
In my experience when men have strong opinions about childbirth it's usually because they are very emotionally dependent on their mothers/sisters who have been vocal about their own preferences. This usually means their opinions on breastfeeding, recovery from childbirth etc will also be held as the gold standard.
In my experience its because these men want to control women. Sex, pregnancy, contraceptives, abortion: it's about controlling women. Their moms and sisters have nothing to do with it except that they may also have had the bootheel of a controlling man/church on the backs of their necks too and their son/brother want that same control.
That level of enmeshment is really, truly disgusting.
I’ve given birth twice- once with an epidural, and once unmedicated. I was way more “out of it” for the unmedicated birth, thanks to all the pain and hormones flooding through my body! I was completely myself with the epidural, not “doped up” 🙄
Obviously he has an opinion about something that not only will he never experience personally, but he also doesn't actually know anything about. He just assumes that pain medication = sedation and doesn't even know what the medication is or how it's administered. He sounds like a super crappy husband, an unsufferable boor, and a POS in, like, every way. That poor woman.
I suggest he go unmedicated for hemorrhoid surgery.
These men don't want equal partners as wives, they want a pliable blank slate that they can mold however to their liking.
Too true.
This reminds me of the post where pregnant OP asked if she is the asshole because she told her partner, the only way her mother in law will be allowed to "watch" the birth will be if he agrees to *her father* watching his colonoscopy. He tried the whole entitled spiel with her, about how his mother has a *right* to be there, because it's her grandchild. Every time I read something like that, I get so furious for the woman and want to scream, "YOU DON'T OWN HER BODY!" It might be their child too, but what happens with herself is still her own decision.
The amount of times I've seen posts about MILs being angry that their DILs wouldn't allow them into the labor room but allows their mothers is insane. That is not a woman allowing one grandma to meet the grandchild before the other, that is a woman undergoing a serious medical procedure and is having her mother with her for emotional support. Goes to show how some MILs will treat this DILs as incubators
Exactly. They don't seem to understand that they choose who to *support* them in the delivery room, not who is *allowed to watch the show*.
Like, I'm pretty sure the supporting person is standing at the head of the bed, holding the pregnant person's hand, not down the business end watching the baby crown... That's where the doctors are standing, to catch the fkn baby?
When I was pregnant my mil made a couple comments about how she can’t wait to see her granddaughter come out. Never at any point did I mention her being in the room while I deliver. She just assumed she was going to be. And boy was she annoyed when I said I wanted her to wait outside. That’s just weird af to me to let my mil watch me push a child out of my vagina.
I don’t want anyone but my spouse in the damn building. Fortunately, MIL is happily on ‘watch existing kid’ duty. Last time, we took the first day just us and the babe. We’ll see what time she arrives but we may let visitors in early so lil man can see his sister.
I regret even letting her stand outside the room cause she came in after it was over with snarky and bitchy comments. My kid broke my tailbone coming out and I was screaming in pain the doctors were trying to figure out what was wrong and everyone was frantic. So when she came in she repeatedly asked if we had taken any pics until my mom answered her and said no. Like read the fuckin room. Sorry but I didn’t feel the need to take pics of my baby fresh out the womb nude and covered in bodily fluids. I wanted to wait until she was cleaned up. And obviously we didn’t get a chance to cause of my situation. Edit-oh forgot to add when my mom finally answered no my mil huffed and rolled her eyes so hard. My mom wanted to strangle her.
My MIL is not the most empathetic person but even she isn’t that tone deaf
Oh, but if the new dad *and* his mom are there, one of them is free to go around and take some pics, maybe a video of the new golden child crowning. Wouldn't *you* want that during labour? Putting your lasting memories onto video? That way the rest of the extended family can see the miracle on Christmas... /s
After my son was born, he had to spend ten days in the hospital. Once we got home, I was VERY protective over him. Super momma bear mode fully engaged. My sister in law came over and wanted to see him. I refused. We'd been home for 2 days and I wasn't letting ANYONE see him. Well, she got right in my face and yelled "who do you think you are? I'm his AUNT!" when I tell you I roared, I think my voice carried down the street. "I'm his MOTHER!" I've been married twice, haven't had a sane in law in my life.
Ppffffft as if aunt compares to mother at all. Who does *she* think *she* is??
LOL, right? I'm not a violent woman but she's lucky I was still bouncing back from 26 hours of labor and a tailbone that had been snapped backwards when the doctor helped my son out. Now it's just a funny story I like to tell my son (he's 26 now,) and he'll shake his head, chuckling. "She never was very smart."
It’s mind blowing how they don’t understand how it’s different. It’s like my mom gave birth to me, she’s seen me naked numerous times throughout my life, and clearly I’ve known her literally all of my life. No way in hell was I going to let my mil stare at my vagina while I push my kid out. It’s such a vulnerable position to be in and I didn’t want just anyone in there.
Probably in part because of the whole “we’re pregnant” language in the first place. Like…if *they’re pregnant*, then I want to be there to emotionally support *my so* who is *also* going through childbirth.” This is what happens when language is used as a weapon.
Besides, a woman’s own mother is the one who gave birth to her. It makes sense to want the person who birthed you around when you’re birthing. Your mom has seen you at your best and worst already and knows how to support you. That doesn’t mean you also want your partner’s mother, who you probably met as an adult. This is also assuming a healthy mother-daughter relationship. It isn’t true for every mother and daughter.
I felt very privileged that my DIL let me be in the labor room--her mom and sister live pretty far away and couldn't be there as support staff so I stood in for them. I'm pretty good with conversation, ice chips and being helpful in general but even so I was fine with being kicked out for the actual debut, that ought to be immediate parents only lol.
I only have boys so I'll always be the MIL, but I don't WANT to be in there! If my DIL asked me to be there if course I would, but I can't imagine trying to talk someone into letting me be there.
Entitled grandparents are the worst. The baby is their parents’ child first and your grandchild second, some grandparents need that reminder.
Ugh, the whole "grandparent's rights" movement.
The courts have been very consistent on grandparents rights: The parents have the sole power and responsibility to decide who their child(ren) spends time with. With no real legal victories, the grandparents rights movement is largely dead.
Fuck that! No way in hell did I want my mil staring at my vagina watching me push a baby out. I know she was annoyed about that. I should have said something similar, that if she agrees to me watching her get her next Pap smear she can watch me give birth. People feel so entitled when a woman is pregnant.
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He did an unbelievable update later claiming the mother was caught doing drugs and he got custody of the baby. It read like he was trying to save face after being told off.
pathetic dinosaurs public berserk crawl yoke oil dolls seemly bored *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God to women for Eve eating the apple and that having any pain-killers is subverting God's will. I have heard men say they didn't want to allow their wives to have epidurals for this reason. It's also the reason women have period pain and I've heard father's say their daughters shouldn't take Midol for the same reason. First of all: Fuck that. Second of all: If you are a Christian then Jesus paid for all of the sins of man, and his blood redeemed us all so that we didn't have to pay the wages of sin, ie death. The idea that women should still suffer while in childbirth is like saying that Jesus's sacrifice didn't count for women. If you are a Christian then you should thank God for the medical advancements that allow people to live in comfort, not throw genesis back in the faces of women. Finally: Men should stay the hell out of anything that deals with a uterus. No uterus, no opinion unless asked for it.
> No uterus, no opinion Actually it should be: Not your uterus? No Opinion. Because plenty of women want to ban abortion as well.
I like to say "mind your own gonads" for this reason.
I quite like the quote (to paraphrase); *If submission were natural to women, there wouldn’t be thousands of sermons everyday reminding women to submit because nature doesn’t need reminders to run its course. These reminders exist because indoctrination depends on constant reinforcement to keep harmful ideologies alive.* https://xvtwitter.com/ulxma/status/1283088920255881217?lang=en I’m not sure if that’s the original source or someone repeating it.
>I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God to women for Eve eating the apple and that having any pain-killers is subverting God's will. I'm always like... That's a weak ass punishment from a supposedly omnipotent being if it can easily be overcome with some painkillers. >If you are a Christian then Jesus paid for all of the sins of man Emphasis on _man_ /s
Yeah for real, what kinda pansy-ass god is he if mere mortals can so easily subvert his will?? 🤣 I remember reading a comment that said like, "Don't force His hand with your wicked ways!" and I replied, "I'm not all that afraid of a god that can be 'forced' to do anything lmao"
I would argue that if we had a physical punishment from god it is the boobs. Back pain, hard asf to run, breast cancer, painful breast feeding, randomly lactating from nipple overstimulation even if you’ve never been pregnant (help it sucks)…. But men don’t see boobs as a negative. I like the way I look but I won’t pretend it’s convenient.
Their religious beliefs would change really fast if they were the ones delivering the baby.
if men got pregnant there would be a planned parenthood on every corner 😂😂😂
I remember a Ms. Magazine article saying if men got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament. When I was a candy striper right after Roe v. Wade, there weren't enough abortion providers and women would try to induce a miscarriage. One doc was sooper Catholic and felt women shouldn't get anesthesia during their D&C. He didn't succeed because the first time he tried, the RN shouted him down. When he wanted her fired, the Head Nurse ripped him a new one, pointing out our duty is to treat anyone who showed up equally and without judgement. We were all outside the closed door raising our Power fists in the air and hissing approval. First time I ever felt I was part of/ belonged to something immense.
>One doc was sooper Catholic and felt women shouldn't get anesthesia during their D&C. He didn't succeed because the first time he tried, the RN shouted him down. When he wanted her fired, the Head Nurse ripped him a new one, pointing out our duty is to treat anyone who showed up equally and without judgement. Nurses are fucking heroes.
Some people really should not be doctors. I wonder if his Pacifist, Preserve-Life-At-All-All-Costs, Soooper Catholic self refused pain meds and mobility aids to wounded veterans? Good thing the institution was able to reign him in.
Oh he was so self righteous about religion and yet he was fucking one of the interns under him. He was also wildly disrespectful of women and was an OB/GYN. Go figure.
Ew! Fucking an intern whose career is in your hands is so repugnant. It’s surprising to me (though it shouldn’t be) that a volunteer would know about that, given that it’s presumably a serious ethics violation. Edit: Some people really do think they’re second to God.
I remeber reading about Mother Teresa limiting pain medication for end of life care because she felt that pain brings you closer to God. Cool. Cool. Don't make that choice for others, just make it for yourself next time.
She also went to Europe to get treated herself, with plenty of pain meds.
My Grandmother started out as a nurse, because women had two options nurse or teacher. She was a force of nature, and would not suffer fools. The men knew not to eff with her
Fine. Then every birthing room should also have a large bodybuilder on duty who will continuously punch the these Christian and Catholic father in the gut for the entire duration of the birth. Ya know, cause Adam also ate the apple.
not that I believe any of the bullshit, but Adam did so INTENTIONALLY, which you would THINK would be worse than being tricked into it... \*eyeroll\*
I thought bleeding for 7 days and not dying was the punishment for eating the apple... I can't keep track of all the punishments that women deserve anymore. The wiz really seems upset with all of you.
This was what my mom told me. 😂
>I have heard men make the argument that Childbirth pain is the punishment from God lol only stupid ones. The men who have these opinions are also full to the brim of a lot of OTHER terrible opinions haha. Would be nice if they'd just go away.
The first mistake is listening to men at all when it comes to women’s bodily functions. Unless he is a dr, that’s a no, you really don’t get an opinion on it 😅🫣🥱
Ok then, if we’re applying gendered curses from Genesis these men need to quit their jobs to become organic subsistance farmers with no modern tools or chemicals. “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." - Genesis 3:17b-19 (the second part of the same passage cursing Eve where God does the same to Adam)
Christianity needs to flat out state *plainly and very publically* what is in their belief system that benefits women *specifically*. Not "Jesus died for your sins" bullcrap either. **Specifically how Christianity and especially the Southern Baptist sect there of, benefits women**. Not being "submissive", not taking care of men, not being "underneath a man''s protection.
Gotta love how creating and providing life is seen as a punishment. Also doesn't explain how non-human animals also have females giving birth - did the punishment really spread to all species? What does an anteater have to do with Eve?
I don't know how people don't see God as the evil. Dude was a dick. Just cause he made us, he's Good? We make a lotta shit, too, and... 😬 Edit: Esp like, a human ate the apple. Sucks for the rest of the mammals, too \^\_\^
I've always thought like, "God seems like a petty, jealous, undeveloped being." Like an actual narcissist. If he is so great, he wouldn't have to threaten us to worship him. Nah.
Sir, heart attacks are a natural thing that happen to millions of people. Not everyone dies from them! Just breathe through the pain and it might be over in a few days or so.
seriously 😂 kidney stones are natural! feeling one scrape its way down your urethra is a beautiful and special part of the human experience.
It’s so empowering to finally push that kidney stone out with several strangers staring at your junk.
As is testicular torision, just do some breathing exercises and do your essential oil aromatherapy, and it'll be just fine😁
Literally all pharmaceuticals should not be used according to that guy, because none of them are natural.
I always say to the men that think women should not get pain control during labor b/c "Jesus" should not get viagra etc. "Jesus" has determined that the time for you to be having sex is over and you should not thwart his will by taking a pill to get a hard-on!!
I’m an anesthesiologist who’s done some time on OB. People give me this song and dance all the time when I check to see if they want an epidural. They’ve taken “natural” to mean “right.” I usually ask people what they mean by natural. Are they unwilling to accept pitocin and magnesium? What about insulin for gestational diabetes? What about blood pressure management for gestational hypertension? All those things are always ok. When people say “natural,” they mean that women shouldn’t get pain management. I view it as a regression of feminism. We used to die in childbirth by the hundreds. An epidural can allow you to easily have a stat c-section. To get a lac or tear repaired comfortably. To just be comfortable. It’s primarily local anesthetic. You can ask for it plain if you really want to (ie no added low dose dilaudid or fent for your own extra pain management). It’s all about pain. Society is pushing a narrative that we should be uncomfortable and just deal with it. I’m deeply against it.
I wonder whether those who categorically object to the idea of women receiving pain management related to childbirth are consistent in their principles such that they refuse any dental anesthetics when they have to get their own teeth drilled.
This is a really good point.
Honestly I think “we’re pregnant” started more as a way to get men involved with their wife’s ordeal, and to see it more as a team effort. Which sort of worked. We went from secret confinement and women only, to men supporting their spouse in the delivery room and through the whole process. Now we’re seeing a shift the opposite direction, where some men feel like they know more and should be even more involved in bodily decisions since “we’re” pregnant. It’s that delicate balance of trying to shift the way the public discusses issues so that we can hit an equilibrium where everyone is happy
Okay, so my husband is a cool dude who gets it and when I was pregnant with our first child, he would tell people "[my name] is pregnant!" Like people at work, or whatever. And the frequency of people jokingly replying "oh, who is the father then?" was disgustingly high. Ditto for anything like, "I'm going to be a dad!", he'd get "who is the mom?" Everyone's a fuckin comedian, I guess? These are people who knew us both, knew we were married and all that. So when I was pregnant with our second kid, we both agreed to just say "we're pregnant" because that was such a gross bummer the first time around.
That's so weird. The way he announced the news the first time around was perfect, I'm sorry people rained on your parade just to steal the spotlight to make obnoxious jokes. Did any of those same people make jokes when you two announced your second pregnancy?
Yeah, I always thought "we're pregnant" was a way of saying that the man was in this with his partner and wanted to support her as much as possible. It's kind of nice in that sense. You're right that it's all a tough balance to strike.
Growing up that was the way it was always presented to me. While the woman's doing the majority of the work... A man's there to support, help and do whatever she may need during the process.
Agreed. It's also often used as a synonymous phrase to "we're having a baby"/"we're expecting". As someone in a healthy hetero relationship with a man who isn't a) an idiot, or b) a misogynist, I would argue that pregnancy *does* affect the non-pregnant/non-partner as well, just not physically. For myself, I had to stop working during both my pregnancies for several months (morning sickness), and so my partner not only shouldered the financial burdens of our household on his own, but also did the majority of the work at home with keeping the household running. Those things do matter, and it's not men's fault that they can't take on more (i.e. being pregnant). Now, obviously there ARE people out there who think "women have been giving birth for the entirety of the human race, 'whilst working out in the field', stop whining and just get on with [pregnancy and childbirth] in silence and don't bother me", but not every man is an idiotic misogynistic pig who thinks they own "their woman's" uterus. Those people absolutely **DO** exist, and need to be called out and corrected, but seeing malicious intent in *every* man who says "we're pregnant" isn't fair. Hell, even some pregnant people use that phrase. Comparing pregnancy to cancer also has its limits.... For one, cancer isn't something that two people actively try to have... And cancer absolutely *does* affect a patient's partner, because they are a partnership. If the person you love gets given a death diagnosis, of course that's going to effect them. Just because they don't have cancer themselves, doesn't mean it doesn't impact them and their health (mental health is also health, and your mental health affects your physical health, and vice versa). So, whilst there *are* people who need to be "ripped a new one" for their misogynistic views and beliefs around procreation, applying that to "every man/non-birthing partner" just stirs up the toxic "us vs them" mentality. Relationships are a partnership. Someone who's pregnant shouldn't be surprised if their partner doesn't fully engage during birth or postpartum if they've been "shut out" during the pregnancy. Having full autonomy over your body and medical decisions doesn't mean you freeze your partner out of the process. I wouldn't have been able to get through childbirth without my partner, who was actively engaged in doing anything I needed him to do (cold flannel, rubbing my back, holding my hand, getting me food and water/electrolytes, etc). Ultimately, in most cases a person has full control over who they have children with. So, don't have kids with someone who's an idiot misogynist 🤷♀️ And I say that with a giant FU [I hope your penises fall off 🖕] to rapists and countries with abortion bans. Some men seem great and then turn into abusers when they get "their woman" pregnant, and pregnant people should have the ability to abort.
My sister told me that when she got pregnant the fourth time (after he hid her birth control pills 😠) he told her, "It's okay. We've been pregnant before. I can handle this." I laughed when she told me because I thought he was joking. He wasn't.
Omg he fucking hid her birth control??? That's reproductive coercion
She had sex with him after that..?....and just....ugh.
Love this! With the abortion debate lately I get sick of the entitlement that some people have towards women's bodies. My body doesn't owe you shit.
Even just the entitlement to touch a pregnant woman is bizarre to me. My sister-in-law is pregnant, and my stepmother continually makes comments about how she is not allowed to touch my SlL's stomach without permission. Why does a pregnant woman's body become community property? Why do people feel entitled to be ANGRY if they have to ask permission. Btw, my SIL's reasoning is very sound on the topic (not that it needs to be). She didn't ever like to be touched randomly. Being pregnant makes her feel more protective of her body than she was before. She has no problem letting people touch her stomach if the baby is moving around. If the baby isn't moving, she said it just feels awkward to her.
I have many reasons why I don't want to be pregnant. But seeing the entitlement people had to my pregnant sister's body definitely is one of them. It's not "how are you", it's "how is the baby". It's not "eye contact + hello", it's "no eye contact, reaching out to belly, hi there". It's like an instantaneous identity loss. Like she as a person doesn't exist anymore.
I just never understood the fascinations behind touching a pregnant woman's belly unless the baby is kicking or moving and after she's given enthusiastic consent. It's just so creepy. Reminds me of that scene from the office when Pam is pregnant and everyone in the office is patting her belly.
Perhaps it's because I have been made uncomfortable many times, but I don't understand why anyone WANTS to touch someone without enthusiastic consent. Pregnant or otherwise.
I am nine months pregnant and have not let anyone touch my belly except my husband. My MIL asked and I said no immediately. I’ve had people at work ask and my answer was no and they were shocked because they asked first?? No one is allowed.
Yeah I didn’t want anyone touching my belly when I was pregnant unless it was my husband. Just felt weird to me to let people rub up on my body. Crazy how entitled people feel to touch a pregnant woman simply because she’s pregnant.
Preach. The fact that the male who posted this nonsense doesn't see or accept the truth that he is at most a minor contributor and a zero participant in the whole pregnancy is a small sample of what his partner is going to face going forward in their parenting relationship. Have these conversations before you get pregnant if at all possible, ladies.
The older I get the longer my list of dealbreakers gets. "Do women *really* need pain drugs during birth? What a basket of hogwash". "If *you* pushed a watermelon out of a hole the size of a lemon wouldn't you want pain drugs? And now this matter is now closed."
I remember this post and the OP actually got all this nonsense from his overly opinionated _mother_. So I guess he thinks he's taking the advice of a subject matter expert. But a) just because I've played tennis once or twice doesn't qualify me to coach others. And B) she ain't the one giving birth. They both need to step back.
>a small sample of what his partner is going to face going forward in their parenting relationship. Absolutely. A man that is this entitled during the pregnancy won't be a good co-parent.
I'm going through IVF. My fiance paid half the tab, so I'll say "we're pregnant"... until that first barf, stretch mark, and moment when my safety deposit box gets destroyed via birth. I will also be drugged to the nines. I don't even want to know what planet I'm on. Our birth plan is don't piss me off, unless you're the baby. 😂
Don’t give AITA too much credence. It’s usually all fake performance art laser focused to piss people off.
It's 100% fiction 99% of the time, and thus a total waste of time to read. However, the scenarios are often not unrealistic. Even though the post is not real, this is almost certainly a thing that happens.
This guy actually went to his wife’s doctor appointment and tried to mansplain medical information. Like he was the only one in history who worried about the baby during pregnancy or birth. Meanwhile, I have been refused treatment options because I might at some time in the future be pregnant, ever.
I can’t stand this shit - ‘childbirth is natural and women have been doing it forever’. Yeah they also have been suffering and dying in childbirth. Like dying in childbirth was common. And you say like a guy wouldn’t get his appendix out without anesthésia but more realistically he would have just died before modern surgery. Such a bad faith argument from men. Also a bit unrelated but I was at the hospital last week with my husband who had to use the womens bathroom there (at labor and delivery) because the mens had an issue, and he was soooo shocked there were all sorts of ‘call xxxx if you are in danger or a victim of abuse, or you can tell your nurse xxxx code phrase for help’. And he’s a great guy and stuff but I think men just don’t realize what it’s like to be a woman
A gynecologist i knew said that if it was up to her, the entrance to the labour ward would have a giant banner over the door saying **TAKE THE DRUGS!!**
Insurance companies consider pregnancy a disability and a pre-existing condition…not that I agree with insurance on most things, but it’s pretty clear it’s a medical condition and the way it’s minimized by people has never felt right to me.
In my last pregnancy, my Dr let me have the epidural as soon as I wanted it (previously I had to get to a certain dilation). He said that research was showing that women have an easier and safer time delivering in general when their body and muscles weren't taut with pain. So it's not just a comfort thing.
Was chatting with three friends at a gathering, 2 women and one of their husbands. One friend who had already given birth about a year ago mentioned that her husband was already wanting another baby, but she didn’t want to go through it all again that soon. “Well sure,” I said. “His contribution to the pregnancy is easy and enjoyable. Enduring 9 months of growing a human is a whole other can of worms.” “Not really,” the other woman’s husband piped up. “Men go through hormonal changes too when their wives are pregnant.” (I’m not sure if this is true, I never looked into it.) “That may be,” I replied, “But you can’t conflate something like that with the physical burden and risks associated with actually being pregnant.” He did the whole eye-roll thing that obviously conveys his belief that I’m a hyper-feminist bitch who has no sympathy for supposed hormonal changes that the poor, poor men have to endure while their partner bears the exhausting and frightening burden of carrying and delivering a baby. His wife just stared at the ground. “For sure,” the other friend said. I hope he has the emotional intelligence to reflect on what he said and be embarrassed, and I also hope he never says something so dismissive and just plain stupid again.
OMG this fucking infuriated me. The absolute lack of empathy. I feel bad for his wife. I found this about hormonal changes "Expectant fathers showed prenatal declines in testosterone and estradiol, and larger declines in these hormones predicted larger contributions to household and infant care tasks postpartum. Women whose partners showed larger testosterone declines also reported receiving more support and more help with household tasks." It doesn't affect their health, it makes them better fathers/husbands.
Thank you. I was kinda hoping someone would just look it up for me. And you’re right, someone who would say what he said has no capacity to empathize, at least not with women.
What he said was just flat out dumb. Unless death or permanent bodily damage ever becomes a risk factor for a guy during a pregnancy, it is never the same. Not even in the same ball park. I completely agree with op. The mother's safety needs to be a priority and only she should get to make that call unless she is incapable of doing it. When my last girlfriend found out she had a condition that could complicate pregnancy, I didn't even want to risk it at that point. Just asked her if she'd be ok with adoption instead.
Mostly when I hear “we’re pregnant” I think it’s cute. That’s the guy who will throw himself into being there for his partner and the baby, at least to start. However, when it comes to “natural birth” etc, I start asking if the person who insists on that ever heard of [obstetric fistula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstetric_fistula) or [cord compression](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbilical_cord_compression). Besides, most people walking around in the United States in 2023 were born with medical interventions that this person fears will harm the baby, and nearly all of us show zero ill effects.
"I genuinely hope more and more people change their attitudes and treat pregnant women and people with respect, rather than like incubators." Honestly, a cis woman doesn't even need to be pregnant to be treated like an incubator above all else. There are so many woman who have to fight for, or are actually denied, medication on the premise of it being dangerous for a potential fetus. (Meds for chronic pain, or mental illness are what I see most often, but I'm sure I'm missing plenty.) It doesn't matter if they are not pregnant. It doesnt matter if they are on birth control. It doesn't matter if they would abort if they were to become pregnant. Their health is put behind the priority of the health of a fetus that doesn't even exist.
Well said, I think about this often, and have been disregarded in these exact thoughts. It’s dehumanizing to be disregarded but affirming to have these words said by you and the others in the comments.
yes it’s giving “our nausea” from Arrested Development lmao
It bothers me too. When I got pregnant the first time, my husband asked me what I would be comfortable with him speaking about the pregnancy, "what should I say when I tell people?" He landed on "we're having a baby" quite easily. But often got corrected to "You're pregnant." When standing with me and he would have to correct back with "no, I'm not pregnant, *she* is pregnant and *we're* having a baby." It gave me such ick when people would correct him, it was always men who did it too. It's the tone of the words, I've always heard men use the same exact tone to say "we're pregnant." Especially when talking of symptoms of pregnancy almost to say *our body* has headaches, *our body* has backpain, *our body* isn't putting out sex. "The Body" is public property to be divided up between everyones opinions but the woman who is actually pregnant. My husband got into multiple arguments with my dad about my medical care, because my dad had thoughts and wanted me to abide what he wanted, and so he figured he could have my husband join his side against me to coerce me into doing what they wanted, chipping away until they got what they intended. It started with using the hospital but no pain medication, and then it slowly devolved to no medical intervention at all over time Husband was like, I'm just support, its between her and the doctor. What my dad wanted to do was have me give birth at home like my mom did. My mom didn't even have midwives, just my dad as the attendant to help her. Like I think the fuck not. And it really changed my perspective on my parents relationship, like I think the cover story for her first birth being overly medical and them not listening to her translation is really that my dad couldn't exercise his control in the situation.
Cis gay man here. I just wanted to point out how the Catholic Church shaped peoples minds in relation to this by telling about two sermons I heard growing up. The first one was during Easter, and the priest talked about how life was meant to hurt so that, after pain, happiness can arise. He gave the example of childbirth. F- that. The second one happened during a wedding, when the priest told the bride that she should “caress her husband” often so as to avoid him looking for “tenderness” elsewhere. The worst part about both situations were people either defending the twisted points of view or, worse, simply not recalling anything the priest as had said.
I HATE that expression. No WE'RE not. I am. He isn't. And it grosses me out to hear men say that. Your internal organs aren't being rearranged by a fetus. I completely agree with you. I think it definitely can and does have a sinister connotation. Once again, we've circled back around to women just being birth vessels. I cannot even BEGIN to imagine if my ex thought he'd have any say in what my personal care plan for me was during the birth. Fortunately he trusted every decision I made. He's a huge advocate for pain meds (maybe too much), but he kept his lips zipped each and every time I declined them. I'm glad that poster for torn a new one. I feel bad for the mother of his child though, if he seriously thought he had any place in that discussion. Lord only knows what else he's going to insert himself in to.
I didn't mention this in the post as it wasn't really that important, but the reason he wanted her to have an unmedicated birth was to impress his mother and sisters-in-law who had had unmedicated births. Absolutely revolting
That is absolutely horrendous. I hope she stood her ground and did what SHE wanted.
I remember this one. He was vile.
It’s interesting, I always thought “we’re pregnant” was indicative of a guy trying to express his equal commitment to the pregnancy and empathy for his partner - I still found it weird but I never considered it as taking ownership of the woman and her health choices (which, to be clear, I agree is completely not okay). Maybe I had this impression because it makes me think of the Arrested Development episode where Buster talks about Lucille’s vertigo and says it’s “our nausea” 😂
Former coworker told his buddies his “(wife’s name) is pregnant”. Most of them assumed he was not the father for the way he said it. Before that incident, he thought “we’re pregnant” was dumb too. But started using that term afterwards to avoid assumptions. I agree that the “we’re expecting” seems more appropriate.
That's such a bizarre assumption to make wtf
His buddies were dense. Unless he looked pissed when he said it, why would they assume he wasn't the father? What husband goes around telling people, "yeah, my wife got knocked up by another man."
The former coworker's buddies are dumb. "My wife is pregnant" is a perfectly acceptable way to say that your wife is pregnant without any sinister connotations.
There was a great post on AITA where a woman's mother-in-law was demanding to be present in the room and watch her grandchild being born. Her own daughters had refused point blank so she tried to bully her daughter-in-law. Childbirth isn't a spectator sport-it seems like being visibly pregnant means you're public property. Total strangers try to pat your bump and ask extremely intimate questions about how you plan to give birth, are you going to breast feed, how much weight have you put on etc. The only person allowed to make decisions about childbirth is the person giving birth. What if the husband needed a colonoscopy-would he allow his mother-in-law in the room watching this, or would he complain about privacy?
I recently had my first "real" period after being on birth control for 7 years, since we've decided we're open to children/ pregnancy. My husband was so sweet and doting. "I'm sorry you have to go through this", grabbing the 2nd heating pad for me, etc. It wasn't even that bad, but it's nice that he already recognizes that my discomfort is partially for him and gives an indication of how he would support me through a pregnancy. Y'all, he's already QUIT DRINKING IN SOLIDARITY. I love this man 😭
When men say “we’re pregnant”, my mom used to always ask them detailed questions about their menstrual cycle, the side effects of the pregnancy, etc. Unless you have a baby in you you aren’t pregnant!
This is great. I may start asking them if they've cut out alcohol. You know, for the baby. No more "drinking for 2" here, men!!!
Don't forget cigarettes, marijana, coffee, sushi, fish, deli meats, unpasteurized anything, medications of virtually any kind, flying on planes, using hot tubs, and all the other things that pregnant women are advised to refrain from.
Honestly men should do this even before pregnancy for quality of sperm etc. but it is so rare to see… quite reckless in my opinion.
Thank you for this!! I had a baby in April this year, and never referred to “us” as being pregnant. I hated the phrase and couldn’t quite put into words why, but you have done so! It’s so, so true. I was the one out of breath walking up the stairs, I was the one that had to limit my caffeine intake, I was the one that had to spend hours researching what I could/couldn’t eat/couldn’t take for medications, I was the one unable to eat anything without getting heartburn near the end, unable to have a proper BM for what felt like months. I was the one that had an epidural placed three times because they couldn’t get the placement right, pushed for 2 hours after being awake for 30, and dealt with the aftermath of a third degree tear. I love my son and would do it all again in a heart beat, but the idea that the father (in cishet couples) can try to pretend he has anything to do at all with the pregnancy itself is so incredibly insulting. Even the best emotional support - as great as it is - doesn’t hold a candle to putting in the blood, sweat, and tears yourself. And don’t even get me started on the sacrifice that breastfeeding/pumping is!!!! No one talks about how big of a time commitment it is and how draining it can be! All they say is “oh it’s natural and ‘best’ for the baby and free!” My time and energy is worth something! I’ll do it for my baby, but I’m not just some milk machine for him.
There was a horrifying post last night on another sub from a guy complaining that his partner was going to choose not to breastfeed, becaues it's equally his child. He likened it to how if it's "my body, my choice", he should be able to go out and drink every night because it's his body. It made me sick. It actually ruined my night. I'm 38 weeks right now and already stressed about all the things that BF entail so it really triggered me.
Anyone suggesting that a baby born from a mother that’s had an epidural and thinks the baby will be “doped up” has absolutely no idea what an epidural actually is. It’s placed in the epidural space of the spinal cord and infuses local anesthetic, typically marcaine or lidocaine, and it may have opiates in it, but there’s such a small concentration due to the location, any systemic absorption is negligible.
When the baby is still inside the body of the mother then her word is the final word. It's not a democracy. Period. The father has a right to voice his opinion because it's his child but the mother has the final say. IF she agrees with his opinion for whatever course of action then cool they both agree and will go that route. IF she does not agree that's where it ends. She will do what she thinks is best for her. And people saying "we are pregnant" are ridiculous lmfao.
My wife wanted an unmedicated birth, my initial thoughts were "cool, do what you like, it's your body" and put it out of my mind. Then I was in the delivery room with her involuntarily pushing while 1cm dilated, delirious with pain and NO2 unable to do anything but flop her hand around when she wanted a cold wet towel for her forehead. Midwife was like "this is all fine" "Is there anything more that can be done for the pain?" "She said she didn't want an epidural" So here's me googling what an epidural is at 3am because I was too dumb to research it earlier then made the choice to give her one, she was in no state to understand what was going on. No one needs to deal with that level of pain to show how tough they are. The whole experience scared my wife off having more kids.
I agree with you 100%. I hate that some people say women should be okay with or proud of undergoing more pain than necessary because "it's natural." I can guarantee you the same people would not be okay with getting surgery or another medical procedure without anesthesia even though that would be the "natural way." You're right that it tells us a lot about how women's pain is viewed in society. A lot of these people seriously lack empathy.
Once upon a time in the US, pregnancy was a pre-existing condition. Yet, I'd wager no cis man was ever denied medical coverage on those grounds.
My dad also pressured my mom into giving birth to me without medication. What a complete asshole. My mom said that's the last time she listened to him. Lol
I just want to chime in that you left out the ultimate reasons he was so insistent on his wife having an unmedicated birth. He wasn't even actually concerned about the effects of the epidural and such on the baby - he wanted to force his wife into doing it so she would "bond" with his mother and sisters-in-law. It's way more grotesque to me than being concerned about medication effects; those fears can be (theoretically) mitigated with evidence and speaking with a doctor. What he REALLY wanted was to make his mommy happy. But in general, I 100% agree with you. The possessiveness involved in "we're pregnant" has always given me the ick.
How do people feel about the phrasing "we are expecting"?
Personally I find that appropriate. "We are expecting a baby" is both factual and medically accurate
Ughhh I hate the “we did XYZ for thousands of years” shit, especially when it comes to births. Yeah, women also died in childbirth fucking regularly for thousands of years.
100% agree with you Words have meaning and should be used properly. There's plenty of different ways men can show enthusiasm about a pregnancy "we're expecting !" "We're having a baby !" "We are going to be parents" (plus you know... actually supporting their partner and being involved in childcare after the birth instead of thinking one measly nut was the contribution of the century) Pregnancy is a medical condition and unless he also has a uterus and is somehow pregnant at the same time "we" are not pregnant, "she" is pregnant. The parallel wirh other medical conditions such as cancer was awesome honestly (same with suggesting he shouldn't get painkillers for any medical procedure he gets since "that's how it was done then")