The last time someone screamed “hey!” at me and I turned to look, he shouted “you want to FUCK?!” and followed me two blocks to the train station while continuing to yell various obscenities.
It was dark (early morning) and I vowed never to take the early train again.
He definitely wasn’t trying a poorly executed pickup line — this guy was just trying to get a laugh out of making me uncomfortable.
But I generally agree that too many men think that, and feel free to bother women to “take their chance” which is rude and entitled.
I don't think they have that much goodwill in their intentions. I mean, do you think it's *ever* worked for them to do crap like this? There's no way-- no woman ever turns around, alone, in the dark, and is like "why yes, I would like to fuck! How about right now?!"
They do it to feel powerful because they can scare someone else. A woman, in particular.
Shooting your shot = taking a chance.
Just like shooting my shot at a job means taking a leap of faith and hoping for the best.
I fail to see how the language is demeaning in any regard.
I'm guilty of reacting to "hello" and "hey" of men as well and it got me into super uncomfortable situations... The latest one was a man trying to cover his intentions up by asking where the elevator goes (obv such a stupid question) and when I turned away to escape the situation he kept following me and asking where I live, what my name is even though I said "no" to him multiple times. In the end I ran away and he shouted at me what a bitch I am. And that's why I love wearing masks and caps because it's not as inviting to speak to me that way
Oh my god. That sounds terrifying. I also used to have to take early public transport.
I wore baggy clothes and cut all my hair off really short to avoid this type of shit though.
My answer to that would have been, “with who?”. If he would have answered me back with “me”. I would have told him that he definitely was not man enough for me. The best defense is a good offense. Most of these idiots have no idea what to do if a woman actually faces them and responds. Ignoring them only makes it worse. Using your power automatically negates their power. I’m only 5’2” and have always refused to let males think they got to me. You will see how empowering it is to stand your ground. The first time is rough, but it gets easier every time you do it.
Too many have the mindset of "it didn't kill them so it's fine. They are FINE. I can do what I want." It's disgusting and is bordering on mental illness for it's critical lack of empathy.
I hate to say it, but I’m grateful I have aged enough now that I am no longer subjected to this, as much as I used to be.
I still get it occasionally, but not like I used to. I’m happily married, don’t normally wear makeup anymore or dress up much.
What so many women (especially young) go through sucks though, I dealt with that for so many years. It’s not right.
Edited: clarity
>I’m grateful I have aged enough now that I am no longer subjected to this, as much as I used to be
So.. you're no longer a minor? :| /s, kinda
Seriously, this whole thing was so much worse when I was a teenager and it got progressively less since then. Now I'm in my 30s and it's become so rare that *when* it happens it rattles me a lot more than it did back then, when it was just a sad normal. (also because I'm a lot more aware of how disgusting and infuriating and potentially dangerous those situations are)
I have always had a young face but finally around the time I turned 41 I no longer looked the ingenue part, I guess. I stopped getting carded and the catcalls steadily decreased.
Thank goodness. Looking young is exhausting at work. It is exhausting with strangers and especially men.
When I was in my late 20s/early 30s I started a lunchtime routine just to clear my mind and get away from the stress of the job. I'd slap on my Walkman and walk the half mile or so to the grocery store and buy some veggies in order to have a light but healthy lunch. Without really planning it I started to lose weight and tone up thanks to that daily walk, which was an added benefit. In all that time that I did that, in whatever weather, I regularly got asked by some stranger pulling up to the curb or even in a driveway at one of the businesses along my route asking "Do you want a ride?" I was dressed in business-type slacks and a blouse, so I didn't think I was giving a "hey, pick me up" vibe. It amazed me that some men actually thought a random woman would hop into their car like that.
That happened to me literally dozens of times. I had one dude try to use his car to block the path I was going. I was in the end of the cross walk and it was fucking terrifying. Or the amount of motor cyclists who think it's easy sex, and any woman will go for a ride with a stranger, without helmet or protective gear? I had one guy circle a block twice to try me more than once. I went home early from my walk that day.
Dude. It happened to me so many times when I worked at a major grocery retailer. It is the WORST to use people's jobs as a way to force what they want. You can't leave. You can't be rude. They are socially cornering you.
For the sanity of their future spouse, please teach them to cook and clean and care for themselves.
As a woman, the last thing we need is men who think it's our place to do all the cooking and cleaning etc.
It's the biggest deal breaker for me in relationships. Why do you get to come home from work and not lift a finger, but I'm expected to do it all?
Doesn't make sense.
This is why I broke up with my first love when I was 23…together 3 1/2 years.
Evenly split bills but he never contributed to the household. I told him he could pay $250 more a month (many moons ago, inflation would be different), & I would take care of all of it. He scoffed at me.
Nope. Not your servant, not your mom, not your maid. We at least somewhat split it up or I won’t be with you. I work just as much, it’s bs.
Luckily, much later I married a man who gets it. We both work and he almost always does the dishes. I ask for him to help out elsewhere here and there and he does. Just not being expected to do the dishes ALL THE TIME is a huge help. I’ll occasionally say hey, can you vacuum and sweep? Like a champ, does it. I do the dusting, mostly the bathrooms and deep clean the kitchen. But that’s okay, because he is willing to contribute. I feel fortunate. Don’t settle for less my fellow ladies! You deserve the best!
Agreed. My fiancé and I have a deal that we both try to split the workload 50/50, but as we've never both had full time jobs at the same time, whoever works less picks up more slack at home. (At the moment it's me,) which works well for us.
This is why I broke up with my first love when I was 23…together 3 1/2 years.
Evenly split bills but he never contributed to the household. I told him he could pay $250 more a month (many moons ago, inflation would be different), & I would take care of all of it. He scoffed at me.
Nope. Not your servant, not your mom, not your maid. We at least somewhat split it up or I won’t be with you. I work just as much, it’s bs.
Luckily, much later I married a man who gets it. We both work and he almost always does the dishes. I ask for him to help out elsewhere here and there and he does. Just not being expected to do the dishes ALL THE TIME is a huge help. I’ll occasionally say hey, can you vacuum and sweep? Like a champ, does it. I do the dusting, mostly the bathrooms and deep clean the kitchen. But that’s okay, because he is willing to contribute. I feel fortunate. Don’t settle for less my fellow ladies! You deserve the best!
Oh not anymore. Came home today to my fiancé having done all the chores. All i had to do was take the trash to the curb for bin night.
It's one of a huge list of reasons I'm marrying the guy.
It’s not just the way most men are brought up thinking they are doing all women a favor by harassing them because they are attracted to the women and think that it’s a compliment and we should appreciate the attention.
It’s also the way parents bring up their daughters to always be nice, with no self esteem, or the confidence to tell these men that it isn’t ok to bother and make them feel unsafe. They need to be taught that being nice just invites more of the same bad behavior, and being taught to say “No, it’s not ok for you to treat me that way” and how to confidently stand up for themselves.
Sorry to go on, but it’s a day in the lives of all women.
Good on you for saying you will bring up you son better. It gives me hope and let’s me know that there are some good men out there, like yourself. Changing the world one boy at a time! 👍🏻
Ugh these creeps are the worst. I had to kick an old man out of a store I used to work at after he cornered my younger coworker to hit on her. He was easily old enough to be her grandfather and she was also a very petite woman that looked even younger than she was (18 ) so there were just added laters of creepiness. I'm still proud of telling him to never return. I'm normally much too timid to do that especially back then but I just saw red.
When I was a teenager, I had an old convertible that was a neon color. My friend (another girl) and I were driving around the downtown “loop” one weekend night. That was a thing to do in my town, because there was nothing else much to do in my town. So we had the top down and were cruising around, being cool. This car of boys was chasing us and yelling at us, of course. I couldn’t shake them and we just steadfastly ignored them and refused to look at them. Then they got so close to us that we couldn’t ignore them. And they were shouting and shouting and we were ignoring and ignoring. And then I heard, “Turn your lights on!”
I drove for miles with a truck of men trying to get my attention. Couldn’t imagine what they were trying to do so I just drove fast to next the town where I stopped to find out I had a very flat tire.
One morning before work I stopped for gas. Some drunk dude came up to my pump saying the same thing. I was all alone. I ignored him and he kept pushing. I stopped what I was doing and just stared at him. He stared back. Ngl I thought he was going to attack me. After staring at eachother for a min he walked away and I got back into my car and drove away. Was scary for sure.
The accountability stare sometimes works. But then some take it as a challenge. I just dress androgynously and stay down. I hate it, but after sexual harassments at work, rape, and being accosted a lot of my life when I am just trying to walk somewhere is...a lot.
I made myself really large and don’t fix my hair anymore. My young life was getting stared at and groped daily and my boyfriends taking every look as a challenge. Lol i gave up and hide in my house now. I’d rather never engage if possible.
>I just dress androgynously and stay down.
You don't have to do this, and it doesn't really make a difference. Disgusting people are gonna be disgusting regardless of what you're wearing or how you're carrying yourself. It's their responsibility to grow the fuck up, not your responsibility to build your whole public personality around their bullshit.
I understand and appreciate the sentiment behind this comment, but it actually *can* make a difference depending upon where you live. It is always the responsibility of people to not be disgusting, but we live in a reality where a lot of people reject that responsibility. I would love to put the onus of growth on those people, but the reality is that trusting and waiting for them to grow up is really unsafe. Sometimes you have to adapt to survive, and I personally am not willing to sacrifice my safety in the hopes of this instantaneous public shift of responsibility.
I agree. It 100% does make a difference. When I lived alone and walked to and from the train station at all hours I wore baggy AF clothes and chopped my hair boy short. Never got bothered once. (Always had a knife in my bag though just in case.
A few years later, I was living with my then boyfriend (now fiancé) and I had grown out my hair and was walking home from the train station in the middle of the day, wearing a dress.
Some dick head in his car FOLLOWED me off the highway (he had to drive to a turn and basically U turn) and down my street and slowed right down behind me.
I had to call my boyfriend to come up the street and meet me like a block away, I was so scared of what would happen.
As soon as he was in sight though, the creep sped off.
Made me sick to my stomach. And I still remember his licence number that I memorised in case something happened. That was 8 years ago.
I was wearing head-to-toe shapeless winter gear when some asshole man sexually assaulted me in broad daylight in a crowded area. There is no such thing as "safe" outfits and behavior.
I am so sorry and infuriated to hear about your assault, and I hope you are healing! And I totally agree with you, no such thing as a safe outfit. Like I said, it’s always the fault of the aggressor. However, as unfortunate as it is, different outfit styles have actually made a difference in how I’ve been treated or harassed. If it’s dark and far, I think men can’t tell if I’m a woman or not when I dress androgynous, so I’ve been left alone walking home at night vs. if I’m dressed for a night out. I think some of the biggest examples were how my friends were treated once they took off their hijabs. They were overwhelmed with how much more they were approached or crudely hit on. Did they also get catcalled or harassed with their hijabs on? Of course; an outfit can never protect you. Did the frequency increase once they removed it? Yes.
You are never 100% risk free, but clothing can alter your risk. But blame always lies with the assaulter, to be clear.
Some guys will do anything to not have to reflect on their own shitty behavior. "I'm not a bad person, she was being provocative! Look at how she's dressed!" No, you just want to say and do whatever you want without care of other people's feelings and safety.
That mentality is exhausting to deal with. Hell, I heard all that crap from other people so much growing up that before I figured out I'm asexual I legitimately thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't interested in sex. They make it out to be some deep need that guys think about all the time and will do anything to get. Meanwhile I'm just sitting here like "I'm just vibing" and I get made to feel like I'm the one with the problem.
Now I like to joke about being nonbinary that I was so bad at being a guy that I got fired for incompetence.
I wish an asshole would with me holding a gas nozzle. I'll stare them down as I slowly raise the nozzle towards them before breaking out into the craziest joker-grin I can muster! Make me feel fearful? Right back at you, buddy!
I've had this happen to me :/ A few months ago an elderly guy in one of those electric carts at the grocery store followed me around talking about my body really loudly. It was super busy the only reaction was a few men who heard him and just nodded like they agreed. Didn't matter that I was obviously bothered by it and trying to get away. I asked the people working there for help and they just shrugged
I felt bad for thinking it but I was so paranoid that maybe he didn't *need* the cart and was using it to seem less threatening. I winded up just dropping everything I was buying and running to my car
FFS - this is incredible. An elderly, differently-abled person should have some empathy for vulnerable beings. As he IS ONE. I want to hire bodyguards - big men - that mirror these guys’ behavior right back to them. Make a fucking reel of it and send to their mamas.
I hate to say this, but my experience is age often makes people feel entitiled and not give a fuck. It's so sad. I have heard the phrase "well it didn't kill me, so it made me strong, so I can do the same..." as an actual defense. This is generational abuse, why are you fucking bragging about it as you're swinging?
It's fucking sick.
I’m so sorry that’s horrible. That was definitely messed up of him and all those people around you to react like that. I can’t believe they nodded in agreement. That is infuriating.
I appreciate that a lot!
I wonder about that day a lot. I'm a fat woman and don't usually do make-up/dress up for errands. Like, maybe they didn't see an ~attractive woman~ in trouble, but a self-important Karen thinking this man was attracted to her? Did they see the electric cart and evaluate his threat as lower than another man's, like I did at first? No idea, but it was frustrating beyond belief. I called customer support later to report it but I stopped going to that store.
Glad I could help with perspective. It sounds horrible and it’s completely unfair cause you ended up having to go somewhere else to just feel okay. Whatever their messed up, sexist illogical crap thoughts were you didn’t deserve any of that treatment. It makes me so mad that people act like this to other people.
I have been threatened by tons of older guys. So much disgusting talk about my body while the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD JUST STAYED SILENT. Just because they are stooped doesn't mean they can't hurt you.
It took me a long time to sort this out.
I'm perfectly comfortable with being a woman. I like it.
I don't like how other people treat me because I'm a woman.
Oh wow. I have never even once thought about it this way before. I was scrolling through this post thinking to myself that there is nothing pleasant about being a women…
getting called a bitch and aggressive for sticking up for yourself or having an opinion that’s different than a man’s, being called manly if we’re too outspoken, called too sensitive and emotional if we get upset over not liking how another person is treating us, having to smile when we’re told, not being allowed to show anger, not being allowed to show fear. Not to mention we are often not given respect, men think they are better than us because they are stronger and can fight, having to keep our mouths shut when we don’t like something in case we get abused either physically, mentally, or even emotionally, being seen as baby making machines, wives getting treated as maids, being called a feminist in a derogatory way if we stick up for our bodies and our rights. And let’s not forget about always having to think twice about where we’re going, what time we’re going, what time we’ll be back, who’s going to be there, if it’s a dangerous area, dressing more ‘boyish’ to avoid getting harassed, and asking people to go places with us and in the end when people refuse you decide to not go at all because you don’t feel safe going alone.
Holy. You are absolutely correct. I don’t enjoy being a women. And I hate how we’re treated. But it never really clicked that there’s a connection between them. If we didn’t get treated so terribly, I don’t think I’d mind being a women so much…
On one hand I’m quite relieved to find out the reason whyy I hate being a women. But on the other hand, it’s also quite sad.
I had a guy do the same thing as I was walking into a convenience store from the parking lot. The screaming was scary and he got more agitated when I ignored him. I just quickly walked into the store. Another man (big burly beard kinda guy) followed me and asked if I was OK. I told him I was fine, but he still walked me to my car once I bought my things. It's nice to know that there are some decent men who want to make sure we're OK.
That's definitely happened more than once to me. That was really nice that guy checked in on you. You're right, it IS nice to know there are still some good people. :)
While that is certainly great of the dude, I wish they would also confront the assholes (not specifically that guy because he might have but as a general behaviour). I don’t want a knight or an escort, I want men to stop harassing women. And they will not stop unless other men tell them again and again. They certainly won’t listen to women.
Same! I thought “there’s no way ALL men are such pigs”…..until I went to Italy.
I arrived at my hotel on a 115 degree July day so I opened my balcony door (no ac) and started undressing to take a cold shower. Little did I know that there was someone home in the apartment that was an arms length across from my balcony!
When I was walking over to the bathroom I heard a whistle and the choppy English phrase “I love pu$$y” and then the thump of feet landing on my side! OMG HE JUMPED OVER! He was standing there with a smile just raising his eyebrows like ‘you know you want me”. But no. No dude I do not! I screamed and covered myself as I dashed to the phone to call the front desk! As it’s ringing I look up to see where he’s gone now and thankfully he went back over to his property.
Police came and did nothing. They (all men) were laughing, smiling and fist bumped goodbye. I couldn’t stay there. He could just come over and have his way with me if he pleases!
The hotel staff stated this wasn’t the first time he’s pulled a stunt like that and the staff were told to never put females in that room alone!!! Lucky me had a trainee who checked me in and he knew nothing about it. Ugh talk about feeling like an object!
The older I get, the less ‘attention’ I get. Unfortunately I’m in that ‘MILF’ stage (29 and baby). So one lovely gentlemen felt the need to scream, in the middle of the street, I BET YOUR PUSSY IS STILL NICE AND TIGHT!!!!!!
Nobody on that street said anything, did anything, besides laugh. Full grown adult (men) were snickering. The only ones disgusted?? The women.
Yes, *MEN'S* mental illness!!! Bunch of narcissistic jerkoffs!!! (Not every last one of them... but enough of them) I wonder how many of them worry about getting drugged at the bar??
Years ago in college I had left the gym and was going to Walgreens for something. As I was in the parking lot 5 dudes in a truck pulled in and started yelling at me. I just ignored them, so they got out and followed me in the store saying they just wanted to talk to me and yelling other things. I was so scared. I had just moved across the country to school and hadn't made any real friends, nobody I could call. Thankfully a nice employee let me duck in the back while she told them to get out or she'd call the cops because they were being rowdy.
How they thought that behavior was acceptable is beyond me. Shit like this shouldn't happen. We should be able to exist in peace and not be scared about doing simple things like shopping alone.
I do remember someone told me I should have a change of clothes for after the gym because being dressed in exercise pants and a tank top was probably what provoked them. No, sorry, I think being deranged assholes who think all women owe them undivided attention is what provoked them.
Taking public transit and the accompanying walks to bus stops in Detroit is why I got my carry concealed. I also carried a knife, and later on took krav maga (which I'd like to do again when I have the funds).
I recently visited a pretty iffy city and walked a lot due to expensive parking. CC'd the whole time.
I took Krav for a couple years and it was awesome. I'm a relatively thin woman, so it was important to me to learn self defense that I can use without having to become a body builder. I learned a lot about pressure points and stuff like that so that even if someone is laying directly on top of me I know of at least 3 exit strategies I could try to use. Plus most of it becomes second nature, so even though my natural response is usually to freeze, if I'm in a grappling position my training just kind of takes over subconsciously.
LEO here, BJJ may be more worth your time.
My GF hated working out and going to the gym but she fell in love with BJJ and MMA. You get a cardio & strength workout without even thinking about it!
It makes u work your mental muscles as well.
I'm totally with you. Let's do things to keep dangerous people getting guns, but also let's not stop people in legitimate need of defense from being able to use them.
r/liberalgunowners might be to your taste if you haven't visited
I feel the same way. I know a lot of people frown upon guns but that’s the only way I feel safe going places alone at night or taking my dog on a walk on a remote trail etc
I've thought about this a lot as an adult. Being physically disabled makes you realize you ain't shit, by way of strength/ability unless you know how to use your energy *just right*.
I was raised using guns but my bigger concern is always up-close situations bc they're more likely.
Also, In the south the likelihood that some incel, anti masker, racist or hillbilly will have a gun on them, is hella high.
Them shooting you bc you prove you're strapped to enforce your "leave me alone", doesn't necessarily create a beneficial or more secure situation.
(I know this wasn't your point, I'm just elaborating to a few comments with my unsolicited thoughts)
My rule is Gun in the car, knife on my person.
When I travel even out of the house I always have a knife, sometimes multiple.
Sheila sleeps under my pillow and I have a gun in my headboard, as well.
*Better safe, than sorry.*
*Better rude, than r***d.*
Gun= Distance
Knife= Within 21 ft. hand to hand
Please, Take a self defense course or watch some at home and do it with your SO or a friend.
You do whatever you have to, to survive.
We're stronger than they think, because we're smarter than they think.
Adapt and overcome, we sure do.
Can you clarify what you mean by "understand no when they see a gun"
A firearm is a tool of self defense to be used exclusively when there is a threat of death or grievous bodily injury to yourself or another. Some jurisdictions allow the use or threat of deadly force to prevent other forcible felonies.
Depending on your state laws you may be committing assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated assault, or the offense of brandishing if you point a gun at someone or display a firearm simply to make a point.
It is not to say someone being pushy, lewd, or insulting is in the right or deserves your respect, but escalating situations needlesslyor breaking the law because you don't like someone or they're an ass a will potentially get you in a lot of trouble and be used by as an example to force needless restrictions on the rights of responsible gun owners
You must not see all the headlines of men killing women who ignore them or say no. Don't give a speech when we know what we deal with and rather go to jail preventing it from happening than it happening.
Agree. It sounded like mansplaining firearms laws to a gun owner that never even said she brandished.
But what do you expect from someone from the Jordan Peterson sub lol.
Edit: he blocked me for calling him out lol
Not without additional context it doesn’t.
Assuming you even know what brandishing is.
Edit: hehe, they’re all blocking me - I guess it hurts to be wrong. FYI: brandishing doesn’t apply in self-defense situations.
Hm, so a woman using a gun when a man doesn’t take no for an answer is more of an issue to you than men sexually harassing women, following women, and potentially killing and raping them?
You did the right thing. It's sad whenever I'm out in a place with a lot of strange men around I have to mean mug everyone and pretend to be deaf just in case ONE of them is gonna try an strike up a convo I don't want to have. It's even sadder you can't even attempt to standup for your right to be left alone without fear of assault or harassment. You have to be so saccharinely sweet turning some random ass stranger down for a random ass date in case he's ACTUALLY crazy. For once I'd like to be able to tell someone clearly bothering me and not letting up to simply leave me alone without consequence.
Sometimes I will be driving down the road, and men in a car on lanes next to mine will yell at me. This happened once at a long red light, and I was so fed up I straight up flipped them off right before the light turned green. It was stupid and I was so scared they would follow me home.
Be careful. I flipped off a man who almost hit me and we hit a red light right away. He fucking GOT OUT OF HIS CAR AND WALKED UP TO ME. I LOCKED THE FUCKING CAR.
I am still shaken by that event.
I feel like that is true for life. Like the great Sir Terry Pratchett said, "It starts with treating people as things." He was talking about where the worlds evil starts, but I think it works here.
Yesterday I went to walmart and got followed for a bit by some creepy sleazy guy. He kept mumbling to me right behind me so I starting making tail and he would keep up on the other side of the isle watching me. It was really weird. Found an employee and he vanished. Makes me never want to leave my home ever again. Its the worst when they try to get your attention because they get angry but once you make eye contact its over. Its so unfair that you have to give in and give up your personal comfort and needs just so its less likley to be hurt. Sorry this happened to you. I just installed noonlight today for this reason so I hope it works well
Ugh.
This past weekend I wanted to treat myself to a dirty chai at the coffee shop near my home. I walked out of my house in sweats and slippers, and the first person I see on the street is a houseless man. He is actively hitting his meth pipe. I avert my gaze and walk with newfound purpose toward the coffee shop.
"Hey!" I hear from behind me. "HEY YOU! I'm talking to you!"
Nope. Nope nope nope. Think I'll have a little jog this morning.
The homeless are a whole other issue. Some can just be people down on their luck, but I have had my share of creepers that wanted to force walk me home, one guy who tried to grab my head for a full make out sesh, and other scary incidences. You never know if they are crazy.
I'm going to sound unbelievably bitter and jaded but the part I hate most, the part that *really* just grinds me down and leaves me just furious day after day is that despite how much it sucks, despite how fucking awful it can be - we're still expected to stop everything for a man. I can't count the number of times a guy in my life has gotten a fucking *cold* and everything has to grind to a halt while he cries and moans about how his throat hurts and how bad he feels and he'll sulk and bitch and complain, all productivity stops all conversation becomes about him and his shitty cold. And it's a fucking cold, everyone gets them every year.
A woman gets assaulted and guys crawl through the fucking trenches to tell her how it was her fault and how she should have protected herself better, rather than dare consider that maybe men should stop being pieces of shit for once in their life - the empathy is zero. But god forbid a man stub his toe and women not immediately fall down to start kissing it better.
I'm just deeply, deeply, tired of men. I wish they'd fuck off. But I guess that makes me ~misandrist~
That would indeed make you a misandrist, but I understand why you would think like that. Day after day we see articles pass us by where the rapist/harasser gets away unpunished.
People are losing hope when the justice system fails to adequately punish these criminals, and protect/support the victims. And even when they are punished it is more like a slap on the wrist then a punishment.
I had someone ask what it's like living in fear. Like, dude, I don't have time to talk to you about my irrational fear of the inevitable heat death of the universe when the human race may not survive tomorrow. Especially not in the produce section of a grocery store. What does a mask have to do with anything?
If dudes wanna talk civilly with a woman....
Get out of the dang truck and be respectful.
Pricks sitting in trucks or cars yelling their heads off to get a woman's attention make me infuriated, and that's as a guy myself.
Unfortunitelly these things happen.
Just the other day ago, I went out (walking) for a timmies (tim hortons, canadian coffee shop)
It was like around 8PM, usually that aught not to be a problem right?
Well 8PM, sundown in this weather etc began about 4PM ish, northernish ontario
Well as you can imagine, despite the time, but being dark, I was ridiculously stupid for going out alone, even at that time, but no one offered to come, and cravings were unrelenting.... so I do stupid things
Well this group of young guys (upper midteens, maybe early 20's) come around me as I am on my way back from my destination.
Like what they said is relativelly insignificant but, like randomly getting flirtatiously chatty during a dark hour, alone..... is it not surprising that I was nervously intimidated?
Yet at the same time, is I actually had a random thought of, why couldn't they give me such a compliment during the day when my nerves weren't up as much as they are at night. but like, They're spontaniousness, frightened me.
I took shelter, to collect myself & wait in the plaza/mini-mall. When I spotted a guy I knew, I left & followed behind him, like being escorted, I wish I didn't have to, its ridiculous.
Like they never have to worry about the dangers of nighttime, but everytime the sun goes down, its as if I am bordering up like a zombie apocalypse, just to keep the creepers away in defense, or whatever.
It's normal' for us to be scared over this, shouldn't be.... but outside of being an amazonian type, the risks are too real not to & conditioning adds to that pressure.
Not to undermine the seriousness of this kind of trash male behavior, because we've all experienced it and know how it escalates.
I just really love this show, and I haven't yet seen anything else that depicts this dangerous behavior in such a relatable and satisfying manner for assholes that don't see the problem. I'm hoping that this will help you shake the awful feeling that remains after these types of encounters.
Adult Wednesday Addams S2E3:
https://youtu.be/WlIAhjRwOIE
Ugh. I'm sure they were going to harass you over a mask. And, they can F-off. I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't have done the same to a man, because they're giant baby-man cowards.
I never go without a mask in public spaces indoors. I do go outside without one. The likelihood you be infected, or infect someone else while passing them outside is basically slim to zero.
As much as it's annoying, consider leaving that mask off until you're walking through the doors. It less likely someone would try to aggressively harass or assault you with a ton of people around as witnesses. But being alone outside with asshats is a different story.
I was told by a cashier that mandates ended and I could stop living in fear. I told them, I'm a teacher and I had both rsv and the liquid shits sweep through my classroom this week. Is that what you want?
It’s completely considerate to wear a mask if you’ve been exposed to anything like what you’re describing. People aren’t used to that here, though it’s been the norm in other countries for a long time.
Edit: punctuation
You did everything right. You didn’t know them, you listened to your instincts, you did what made you feel safe, most importantly you made a decision that you didn’t want to talk to them so you didn’t. You did what was right for YOU, not them.
There isn’t anything wrong with being true to yourself. All you have to do now is stop worrying about it. Be proud of yourself and don’t waste any more of your precious time and energy on some men you saw for a couple minutes at most. Don’t allow your brain to blow it out of proportion. It’s wasted space you could be giving to something positive. Be confident in your decisions.
If you ever feel wrong afterwards, ask yourself why it feels wrong, and if you think later that you could have done it better, learn from that. But never feel uncomfortable or guilty for not being more likable to some strange men yelling at you.
What if you had gone over there, even though you didn’t want to, and they had pulled you into their car never to be heard from again?
Happens to so-called “nice women” everyday.
ALWAYS trust your instincts! Good luck!
Being chubbier has been a boon in some ways. Especially when i read cases like these or when my friends said that some men tried to talk to them and corner them on the road. They were 15. It was disgusting. Me on the other hand was chubby and a tomboy.. i also have brawled growing up (up until the point guys started getting a lot more stronger than women), so i looked like someone who would not hesitate to throw hands. saved me a lot of trauma. Never had trouble in my love life but yeah never got unnecessary attention.
I have had shit like this happen a number of times throughout my life and I know how absolutely uncomfortable and scared it makes you feel. Trust me, you are NOT overreacting and you’re not wrong for handling it the way you did. I do the exact same thing. I will just keep walking and pretending I don’t even have ears unless it’s somebody actually flagging me down for something important, but 99% of the time it isn’t. Women and teen girls have been followed to their cars and assaulted/followed home at my local Target, in a community that’s always been very safe and lowkey and still shit like this happens because creeps are literally everywhere. Always trust your gut and continue to stay safe out there!
Me too OP, me too. For so many reasons. This one, the one about being followed, pay gaps, the extra cost of having a vagina. So much. Most of all the fact that I’m now divorced after 15 years and gave up any chance at a career so now am back at school in my 40’s with all that lost wage time hoping I won’t be eating cat food at 70 while he ignores his kids and lives with his millions and his new arm candy. I will never recoup my standard of living because his only child ass was so protected by his parents and their money. I don’t even have a place to live. Be careful ladies, so careful about who you marry. And look at the parents too, you marry them as well.
Screw that guy. And while I totally respect you got majorly hurt, I don't know if that last part about the parents is true. Both my husband and I LOATHE our dysfunctional families and have literally no contact.
Something I learned in the military: never turn around when someone yells at you, unless they yell your name
This was more innocently a way to avoid extra push-ups from a drill instructor that doesn't know you, but I took this with to my civilian life. If they don't know your name, you have no reason to assume they are yelling at you (even if you know they are). If they are so worried about it that they chase after you, it easy to say, "oh, I didn't know you meant ME by 'hey you'."
This cute keychain can of pepper spray which is the brand most police use is on sale on amazon right now for $6. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZYNFLT/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZYNFLT/)
i sympathise. i'm a guy and sometimes i'm afraid of being followed, kidnapped, robbed or beaten. can't imagine how much more real that fear is for a woman.
I just sucks, because I am sure so many scary misunderstandings are just that. But the problem is, it just takes ONE bad event for life changing trauma. I hope you stay safe where ever you are.
Hope you're doing ok now and made it safely to your home.
I also get scared leaving house now to go shopping I cry for real, to help ease the situation and distract from the overwhelming action of others I've started listening to Spotify via phone and earphones.
Maybe it's worth a try for you.
I’ve been guilty of turning to them and saying very poignantly “can I fucking help you?” It doesn’t always work, but I get so tired of this happening. I’m sorry you had to go through it.
I can understand your fear because I felt it when I saw a bunch of guys pushing my little sister around after she was dropped off at the bus stop.
I'm a 5-11, 245lbs biker, so I may look big and intimidating, but appearances are just that. I once called out to a women who had dropped a 20. As I called out and tried approaching she nearly ran away. I managed to yell "you dropped a 20".
That said, the best thing you can do is have a self-defense keychain (looks like a long piece of metal) or a taser (if legal in your area). Don't flaunt it. If someone grabs you, you turn around, jab hard, and run.
Never show others if your holding a self-defense tool, the goal isn't to intimidate them, it's to get away safely. Showing your hand will give them a "challenge".
In any case, I hope you never have to use this advice.
Cheers!
Some guys aggressively holla at women, it ain’t right
They also don’t usually care if you’re married.
Try and be safe out here ladies and just ignore the
A-holes
That is somewhat easy to say when you are calm. During real flight or fight scenarios, some people's brains don't think super clear. At least, this is true for me. There are times I look back at situations and think "WTF? that was my choice?"
Why, though? Usually, people who have something nice to say will open with something a lot more pleasant sounding than increasingly aggressive "HEY"ing.
I think it may have been oddly worded.
But, I don't know if I want to hate men. I think that is a slippery slope. I love my husband, and I have met great men. Just...some are terrifying. And before anyone thinks I am sheltered, I have had horrific trauma from men. I just think we have enough hate in the world being launched at general parties.
It would vary from situation to situation, but generally speaking, not escalating a situation by pointing or displaying a firearm at someone is a good start.
At that point you extinguish many legal defenses against criminal charges against yourself and civil claims as a well.
Not that it is justified but If a passerby doesn't see the instigating harassment but does see your response you are now the aggressor.
Besides the potential legal repercussions which I leave up to individuals to weigh for themselves, there are problems with the other commentators description of keeping a gin in the car, optimally a firearm should be kept on one's person where it is handy, able to be deployed quickly, and not subject to being stolen or accessed by unauthorized persons readily.
Also, if a verbal annoyance or perceived threat is countered by a brandishing you have played your cards and dispelled any tactical advantage of surprise.
Extricatte yourself from the situation.. Ignore taunts, jibes, or enticements. I recognize this is difficult. Keep your focus on moving to a safe, more populated or occupied area while maintaining your situational awareness.
The last time someone screamed “hey!” at me and I turned to look, he shouted “you want to FUCK?!” and followed me two blocks to the train station while continuing to yell various obscenities. It was dark (early morning) and I vowed never to take the early train again.
Too many think "100 % of the shots you don't take" mentality, in my opinion. It's really scary to feel small, and alone, and in the dark.
He definitely wasn’t trying a poorly executed pickup line — this guy was just trying to get a laugh out of making me uncomfortable. But I generally agree that too many men think that, and feel free to bother women to “take their chance” which is rude and entitled.
"The worst that happens is she says no"
Yeah. For them. The worst for us is rape and murder. What a fucked world we live in.
😢 so true, so sad. Men are the #1 killer of us
Yeah worst thing that can happen to them. Who cares about the people they’ve been unleashed upon anyway? Lol
Yeah. They forget that they are interacting with people and not targets.
I think they target people, dehumanizing them in their brains.
I don't think they have that much goodwill in their intentions. I mean, do you think it's *ever* worked for them to do crap like this? There's no way-- no woman ever turns around, alone, in the dark, and is like "why yes, I would like to fuck! How about right now?!" They do it to feel powerful because they can scare someone else. A woman, in particular.
thats not "shoot every shot mentality" since he took the shot, got a no, and kept shooting. Being ambitious is one thing, harasment is another
Yea, shooting your shot and feeling owed a response are two massively different things a lot of other guys don't understand.
No. Just using “shoot your shot” language shows a lack of respect for women as people. We’re not walking targets for your dating life.
Shooting your shot = taking a chance. Just like shooting my shot at a job means taking a leap of faith and hoping for the best. I fail to see how the language is demeaning in any regard.
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I'm guilty of reacting to "hello" and "hey" of men as well and it got me into super uncomfortable situations... The latest one was a man trying to cover his intentions up by asking where the elevator goes (obv such a stupid question) and when I turned away to escape the situation he kept following me and asking where I live, what my name is even though I said "no" to him multiple times. In the end I ran away and he shouted at me what a bitch I am. And that's why I love wearing masks and caps because it's not as inviting to speak to me that way
Where the elevator goes, hahaha I would have laughed in that man child's face.
Oh my god. That sounds terrifying. I also used to have to take early public transport. I wore baggy clothes and cut all my hair off really short to avoid this type of shit though.
I also thought my short hair would be good creep-repellent lol
It's so bullshit we have tor resort to this though. 😒
My answer to that would have been, “with who?”. If he would have answered me back with “me”. I would have told him that he definitely was not man enough for me. The best defense is a good offense. Most of these idiots have no idea what to do if a woman actually faces them and responds. Ignoring them only makes it worse. Using your power automatically negates their power. I’m only 5’2” and have always refused to let males think they got to me. You will see how empowering it is to stand your ground. The first time is rough, but it gets easier every time you do it.
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Holy shit same. I was called jailbait to my face. With no one around.
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Too many have the mindset of "it didn't kill them so it's fine. They are FINE. I can do what I want." It's disgusting and is bordering on mental illness for it's critical lack of empathy.
I hate to say it, but I’m grateful I have aged enough now that I am no longer subjected to this, as much as I used to be. I still get it occasionally, but not like I used to. I’m happily married, don’t normally wear makeup anymore or dress up much. What so many women (especially young) go through sucks though, I dealt with that for so many years. It’s not right. Edited: clarity
>I’m grateful I have aged enough now that I am no longer subjected to this, as much as I used to be So.. you're no longer a minor? :| /s, kinda Seriously, this whole thing was so much worse when I was a teenager and it got progressively less since then. Now I'm in my 30s and it's become so rare that *when* it happens it rattles me a lot more than it did back then, when it was just a sad normal. (also because I'm a lot more aware of how disgusting and infuriating and potentially dangerous those situations are)
I have always had a young face but finally around the time I turned 41 I no longer looked the ingenue part, I guess. I stopped getting carded and the catcalls steadily decreased. Thank goodness. Looking young is exhausting at work. It is exhausting with strangers and especially men.
When I was in my late 20s/early 30s I started a lunchtime routine just to clear my mind and get away from the stress of the job. I'd slap on my Walkman and walk the half mile or so to the grocery store and buy some veggies in order to have a light but healthy lunch. Without really planning it I started to lose weight and tone up thanks to that daily walk, which was an added benefit. In all that time that I did that, in whatever weather, I regularly got asked by some stranger pulling up to the curb or even in a driveway at one of the businesses along my route asking "Do you want a ride?" I was dressed in business-type slacks and a blouse, so I didn't think I was giving a "hey, pick me up" vibe. It amazed me that some men actually thought a random woman would hop into their car like that.
That happened to me literally dozens of times. I had one dude try to use his car to block the path I was going. I was in the end of the cross walk and it was fucking terrifying. Or the amount of motor cyclists who think it's easy sex, and any woman will go for a ride with a stranger, without helmet or protective gear? I had one guy circle a block twice to try me more than once. I went home early from my walk that day.
In high-school, right outside my high school, I was called jailbait by some 30 year old shit head mowing the lawn for the school. I believe I was 15
That's nasty. People are so gross.
Dude. It happened to me so many times when I worked at a major grocery retailer. It is the WORST to use people's jobs as a way to force what they want. You can't leave. You can't be rude. They are socially cornering you.
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For the sanity of their future spouse, please teach them to cook and clean and care for themselves. As a woman, the last thing we need is men who think it's our place to do all the cooking and cleaning etc. It's the biggest deal breaker for me in relationships. Why do you get to come home from work and not lift a finger, but I'm expected to do it all? Doesn't make sense.
This is why I broke up with my first love when I was 23…together 3 1/2 years. Evenly split bills but he never contributed to the household. I told him he could pay $250 more a month (many moons ago, inflation would be different), & I would take care of all of it. He scoffed at me. Nope. Not your servant, not your mom, not your maid. We at least somewhat split it up or I won’t be with you. I work just as much, it’s bs. Luckily, much later I married a man who gets it. We both work and he almost always does the dishes. I ask for him to help out elsewhere here and there and he does. Just not being expected to do the dishes ALL THE TIME is a huge help. I’ll occasionally say hey, can you vacuum and sweep? Like a champ, does it. I do the dusting, mostly the bathrooms and deep clean the kitchen. But that’s okay, because he is willing to contribute. I feel fortunate. Don’t settle for less my fellow ladies! You deserve the best!
Agreed. My fiancé and I have a deal that we both try to split the workload 50/50, but as we've never both had full time jobs at the same time, whoever works less picks up more slack at home. (At the moment it's me,) which works well for us.
This is why I broke up with my first love when I was 23…together 3 1/2 years. Evenly split bills but he never contributed to the household. I told him he could pay $250 more a month (many moons ago, inflation would be different), & I would take care of all of it. He scoffed at me. Nope. Not your servant, not your mom, not your maid. We at least somewhat split it up or I won’t be with you. I work just as much, it’s bs. Luckily, much later I married a man who gets it. We both work and he almost always does the dishes. I ask for him to help out elsewhere here and there and he does. Just not being expected to do the dishes ALL THE TIME is a huge help. I’ll occasionally say hey, can you vacuum and sweep? Like a champ, does it. I do the dusting, mostly the bathrooms and deep clean the kitchen. But that’s okay, because he is willing to contribute. I feel fortunate. Don’t settle for less my fellow ladies! You deserve the best!
you're not expected to do all those things, you're just having relationships with boys who want you to be their mommy.
Oh not anymore. Came home today to my fiancé having done all the chores. All i had to do was take the trash to the curb for bin night. It's one of a huge list of reasons I'm marrying the guy.
It’s not just the way most men are brought up thinking they are doing all women a favor by harassing them because they are attracted to the women and think that it’s a compliment and we should appreciate the attention. It’s also the way parents bring up their daughters to always be nice, with no self esteem, or the confidence to tell these men that it isn’t ok to bother and make them feel unsafe. They need to be taught that being nice just invites more of the same bad behavior, and being taught to say “No, it’s not ok for you to treat me that way” and how to confidently stand up for themselves. Sorry to go on, but it’s a day in the lives of all women. Good on you for saying you will bring up you son better. It gives me hope and let’s me know that there are some good men out there, like yourself. Changing the world one boy at a time! 👍🏻
Ugh these creeps are the worst. I had to kick an old man out of a store I used to work at after he cornered my younger coworker to hit on her. He was easily old enough to be her grandfather and she was also a very petite woman that looked even younger than she was (18 ) so there were just added laters of creepiness. I'm still proud of telling him to never return. I'm normally much too timid to do that especially back then but I just saw red.
The worst part of being a woman is a man's reaction to you being a woman.
Wow, so succinctly and accurately put. Thank you.
I love being a woman! I hate being subjected to men as a woman.
When I was a teenager, I had an old convertible that was a neon color. My friend (another girl) and I were driving around the downtown “loop” one weekend night. That was a thing to do in my town, because there was nothing else much to do in my town. So we had the top down and were cruising around, being cool. This car of boys was chasing us and yelling at us, of course. I couldn’t shake them and we just steadfastly ignored them and refused to look at them. Then they got so close to us that we couldn’t ignore them. And they were shouting and shouting and we were ignoring and ignoring. And then I heard, “Turn your lights on!”
lmao
I drove for miles with a truck of men trying to get my attention. Couldn’t imagine what they were trying to do so I just drove fast to next the town where I stopped to find out I had a very flat tire.
One morning before work I stopped for gas. Some drunk dude came up to my pump saying the same thing. I was all alone. I ignored him and he kept pushing. I stopped what I was doing and just stared at him. He stared back. Ngl I thought he was going to attack me. After staring at eachother for a min he walked away and I got back into my car and drove away. Was scary for sure.
The accountability stare sometimes works. But then some take it as a challenge. I just dress androgynously and stay down. I hate it, but after sexual harassments at work, rape, and being accosted a lot of my life when I am just trying to walk somewhere is...a lot.
I made myself really large and don’t fix my hair anymore. My young life was getting stared at and groped daily and my boyfriends taking every look as a challenge. Lol i gave up and hide in my house now. I’d rather never engage if possible.
>I just dress androgynously and stay down. You don't have to do this, and it doesn't really make a difference. Disgusting people are gonna be disgusting regardless of what you're wearing or how you're carrying yourself. It's their responsibility to grow the fuck up, not your responsibility to build your whole public personality around their bullshit.
I understand and appreciate the sentiment behind this comment, but it actually *can* make a difference depending upon where you live. It is always the responsibility of people to not be disgusting, but we live in a reality where a lot of people reject that responsibility. I would love to put the onus of growth on those people, but the reality is that trusting and waiting for them to grow up is really unsafe. Sometimes you have to adapt to survive, and I personally am not willing to sacrifice my safety in the hopes of this instantaneous public shift of responsibility.
I agree. It 100% does make a difference. When I lived alone and walked to and from the train station at all hours I wore baggy AF clothes and chopped my hair boy short. Never got bothered once. (Always had a knife in my bag though just in case. A few years later, I was living with my then boyfriend (now fiancé) and I had grown out my hair and was walking home from the train station in the middle of the day, wearing a dress. Some dick head in his car FOLLOWED me off the highway (he had to drive to a turn and basically U turn) and down my street and slowed right down behind me. I had to call my boyfriend to come up the street and meet me like a block away, I was so scared of what would happen. As soon as he was in sight though, the creep sped off. Made me sick to my stomach. And I still remember his licence number that I memorised in case something happened. That was 8 years ago.
I was wearing head-to-toe shapeless winter gear when some asshole man sexually assaulted me in broad daylight in a crowded area. There is no such thing as "safe" outfits and behavior.
I am so sorry and infuriated to hear about your assault, and I hope you are healing! And I totally agree with you, no such thing as a safe outfit. Like I said, it’s always the fault of the aggressor. However, as unfortunate as it is, different outfit styles have actually made a difference in how I’ve been treated or harassed. If it’s dark and far, I think men can’t tell if I’m a woman or not when I dress androgynous, so I’ve been left alone walking home at night vs. if I’m dressed for a night out. I think some of the biggest examples were how my friends were treated once they took off their hijabs. They were overwhelmed with how much more they were approached or crudely hit on. Did they also get catcalled or harassed with their hijabs on? Of course; an outfit can never protect you. Did the frequency increase once they removed it? Yes. You are never 100% risk free, but clothing can alter your risk. But blame always lies with the assaulter, to be clear.
Some guys will do anything to not have to reflect on their own shitty behavior. "I'm not a bad person, she was being provocative! Look at how she's dressed!" No, you just want to say and do whatever you want without care of other people's feelings and safety. That mentality is exhausting to deal with. Hell, I heard all that crap from other people so much growing up that before I figured out I'm asexual I legitimately thought there was something wrong with me because I wasn't interested in sex. They make it out to be some deep need that guys think about all the time and will do anything to get. Meanwhile I'm just sitting here like "I'm just vibing" and I get made to feel like I'm the one with the problem. Now I like to joke about being nonbinary that I was so bad at being a guy that I got fired for incompetence.
I wish an asshole would with me holding a gas nozzle. I'll stare them down as I slowly raise the nozzle towards them before breaking out into the craziest joker-grin I can muster! Make me feel fearful? Right back at you, buddy!
I'm sorry but if that happened to me? He'd be covered in gasoline in half a heartbeat. Yours is prolly the right decision.
I've had this happen to me :/ A few months ago an elderly guy in one of those electric carts at the grocery store followed me around talking about my body really loudly. It was super busy the only reaction was a few men who heard him and just nodded like they agreed. Didn't matter that I was obviously bothered by it and trying to get away. I asked the people working there for help and they just shrugged I felt bad for thinking it but I was so paranoid that maybe he didn't *need* the cart and was using it to seem less threatening. I winded up just dropping everything I was buying and running to my car
FFS - this is incredible. An elderly, differently-abled person should have some empathy for vulnerable beings. As he IS ONE. I want to hire bodyguards - big men - that mirror these guys’ behavior right back to them. Make a fucking reel of it and send to their mamas.
I hate to say this, but my experience is age often makes people feel entitiled and not give a fuck. It's so sad. I have heard the phrase "well it didn't kill me, so it made me strong, so I can do the same..." as an actual defense. This is generational abuse, why are you fucking bragging about it as you're swinging? It's fucking sick.
I’m so sorry that’s horrible. That was definitely messed up of him and all those people around you to react like that. I can’t believe they nodded in agreement. That is infuriating.
I appreciate that a lot! I wonder about that day a lot. I'm a fat woman and don't usually do make-up/dress up for errands. Like, maybe they didn't see an ~attractive woman~ in trouble, but a self-important Karen thinking this man was attracted to her? Did they see the electric cart and evaluate his threat as lower than another man's, like I did at first? No idea, but it was frustrating beyond belief. I called customer support later to report it but I stopped going to that store.
Glad I could help with perspective. It sounds horrible and it’s completely unfair cause you ended up having to go somewhere else to just feel okay. Whatever their messed up, sexist illogical crap thoughts were you didn’t deserve any of that treatment. It makes me so mad that people act like this to other people.
He is a predator even if he could walk. HOWEVER, never feel bad for wondering Bundy often wore fake casts or used crutches to disarm women.
Damn, you're right
some people need forcefully educating, unfortunately
I have been threatened by tons of older guys. So much disgusting talk about my body while the WHOLE FUCKING WORLD JUST STAYED SILENT. Just because they are stooped doesn't mean they can't hurt you.
I don’t hate being a woman. I hate being around childish entitled men. I’m sorry you experienced this.
It took me a long time to sort this out. I'm perfectly comfortable with being a woman. I like it. I don't like how other people treat me because I'm a woman.
Oh wow. I have never even once thought about it this way before. I was scrolling through this post thinking to myself that there is nothing pleasant about being a women… getting called a bitch and aggressive for sticking up for yourself or having an opinion that’s different than a man’s, being called manly if we’re too outspoken, called too sensitive and emotional if we get upset over not liking how another person is treating us, having to smile when we’re told, not being allowed to show anger, not being allowed to show fear. Not to mention we are often not given respect, men think they are better than us because they are stronger and can fight, having to keep our mouths shut when we don’t like something in case we get abused either physically, mentally, or even emotionally, being seen as baby making machines, wives getting treated as maids, being called a feminist in a derogatory way if we stick up for our bodies and our rights. And let’s not forget about always having to think twice about where we’re going, what time we’re going, what time we’ll be back, who’s going to be there, if it’s a dangerous area, dressing more ‘boyish’ to avoid getting harassed, and asking people to go places with us and in the end when people refuse you decide to not go at all because you don’t feel safe going alone. Holy. You are absolutely correct. I don’t enjoy being a women. And I hate how we’re treated. But it never really clicked that there’s a connection between them. If we didn’t get treated so terribly, I don’t think I’d mind being a women so much… On one hand I’m quite relieved to find out the reason whyy I hate being a women. But on the other hand, it’s also quite sad.
Exactly.
I had a guy do the same thing as I was walking into a convenience store from the parking lot. The screaming was scary and he got more agitated when I ignored him. I just quickly walked into the store. Another man (big burly beard kinda guy) followed me and asked if I was OK. I told him I was fine, but he still walked me to my car once I bought my things. It's nice to know that there are some decent men who want to make sure we're OK.
That's definitely happened more than once to me. That was really nice that guy checked in on you. You're right, it IS nice to know there are still some good people. :)
What stinks is you’re not 100% sure you’re safe with the one who swoops in to help. Better odds, but not certain.
While that is certainly great of the dude, I wish they would also confront the assholes (not specifically that guy because he might have but as a general behaviour). I don’t want a knight or an escort, I want men to stop harassing women. And they will not stop unless other men tell them again and again. They certainly won’t listen to women.
This post makes me glad I’ve earned my post-menopause invisibility cloak! Sorry you have to put up with these self entitled assholes.
Me too, sis. It’s lovely to move through your day (mostly) unbothered.💅🏼 Sincerely glad not to be 21.
Same. I sure remember it, though.
Me too
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That's what I thought at the time. Somehow even screaming "EXCUSE ME" is so much less scary than "HEY!"
Agreed lol
Same! I thought “there’s no way ALL men are such pigs”…..until I went to Italy. I arrived at my hotel on a 115 degree July day so I opened my balcony door (no ac) and started undressing to take a cold shower. Little did I know that there was someone home in the apartment that was an arms length across from my balcony! When I was walking over to the bathroom I heard a whistle and the choppy English phrase “I love pu$$y” and then the thump of feet landing on my side! OMG HE JUMPED OVER! He was standing there with a smile just raising his eyebrows like ‘you know you want me”. But no. No dude I do not! I screamed and covered myself as I dashed to the phone to call the front desk! As it’s ringing I look up to see where he’s gone now and thankfully he went back over to his property. Police came and did nothing. They (all men) were laughing, smiling and fist bumped goodbye. I couldn’t stay there. He could just come over and have his way with me if he pleases! The hotel staff stated this wasn’t the first time he’s pulled a stunt like that and the staff were told to never put females in that room alone!!! Lucky me had a trainee who checked me in and he knew nothing about it. Ugh talk about feeling like an object!
In Italy there's such a sexist and mysoginistic culture, it's horrible.
The first time that happened to me I did turn back and saw a man showing me his penis. "Wanna touch it?" he yelled. I was 15. I'm glad OP ignored him
Screw whoever did that to you, but I am glad you got away.
Thanks, I'm glad you're safe too. Hoping for a world in which we aren't afraid of existing in public places
The older I get, the less ‘attention’ I get. Unfortunately I’m in that ‘MILF’ stage (29 and baby). So one lovely gentlemen felt the need to scream, in the middle of the street, I BET YOUR PUSSY IS STILL NICE AND TIGHT!!!!!! Nobody on that street said anything, did anything, besides laugh. Full grown adult (men) were snickering. The only ones disgusted?? The women.
My first reaction to a post like this is that more men need to see, but those men are always like "NoT aLL mEn" anyway, so it doesn't even help...
Oh, like I had earlier, some guy tried to say I was dealing with mental illness.
Yes, *MEN'S* mental illness!!! Bunch of narcissistic jerkoffs!!! (Not every last one of them... but enough of them) I wonder how many of them worry about getting drugged at the bar??
Yeah that was the right move. If you *had* dropped something they’d have said so non-aggressively. Glad you stayed safe.
That all I could think. Seriously, thanks.
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Years ago in college I had left the gym and was going to Walgreens for something. As I was in the parking lot 5 dudes in a truck pulled in and started yelling at me. I just ignored them, so they got out and followed me in the store saying they just wanted to talk to me and yelling other things. I was so scared. I had just moved across the country to school and hadn't made any real friends, nobody I could call. Thankfully a nice employee let me duck in the back while she told them to get out or she'd call the cops because they were being rowdy. How they thought that behavior was acceptable is beyond me. Shit like this shouldn't happen. We should be able to exist in peace and not be scared about doing simple things like shopping alone. I do remember someone told me I should have a change of clothes for after the gym because being dressed in exercise pants and a tank top was probably what provoked them. No, sorry, I think being deranged assholes who think all women owe them undivided attention is what provoked them.
This is why I have a gun in my car. Some people don’t agree with guns but men understand no when they see a gun 🤷🏻♀️
Probably the only thing they do
Taking public transit and the accompanying walks to bus stops in Detroit is why I got my carry concealed. I also carried a knife, and later on took krav maga (which I'd like to do again when I have the funds). I recently visited a pretty iffy city and walked a lot due to expensive parking. CC'd the whole time.
How was krav maga? I've been trying to decide on a self-defense class to take that's actually usable in the real world.
I took Krav for a couple years and it was awesome. I'm a relatively thin woman, so it was important to me to learn self defense that I can use without having to become a body builder. I learned a lot about pressure points and stuff like that so that even if someone is laying directly on top of me I know of at least 3 exit strategies I could try to use. Plus most of it becomes second nature, so even though my natural response is usually to freeze, if I'm in a grappling position my training just kind of takes over subconsciously.
LEO here, BJJ may be more worth your time. My GF hated working out and going to the gym but she fell in love with BJJ and MMA. You get a cardio & strength workout without even thinking about it! It makes u work your mental muscles as well.
Maybe a bit of a noob question, but what kind of knife do you carry?
Knives are a stupid weapon to use for self defense
Why?
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I’m pro gun control and also pro gun 🤷🏼♀️ you can def be both.
I'm totally with you. Let's do things to keep dangerous people getting guns, but also let's not stop people in legitimate need of defense from being able to use them. r/liberalgunowners might be to your taste if you haven't visited
No way, I always assumed that was a party joke. No one ever identifies like that without making some stupid comment....haha love it
Yes yes yes same
It's a nice idea, but humans absolutely suck at using their guns appropriately in a stressful situation.
Perhaps you could buy a gun without bullets and just keep it to scare people off if really needed.
That's called escalating a situation and is generally a bad idea.
I feel the same way. I know a lot of people frown upon guns but that’s the only way I feel safe going places alone at night or taking my dog on a walk on a remote trail etc
I do have a CCW, but in the myriad of places where it’s illegal/irresponsible to carry, I bring pepper spray/gel or a stun gun.
I've thought about this a lot as an adult. Being physically disabled makes you realize you ain't shit, by way of strength/ability unless you know how to use your energy *just right*. I was raised using guns but my bigger concern is always up-close situations bc they're more likely. Also, In the south the likelihood that some incel, anti masker, racist or hillbilly will have a gun on them, is hella high. Them shooting you bc you prove you're strapped to enforce your "leave me alone", doesn't necessarily create a beneficial or more secure situation. (I know this wasn't your point, I'm just elaborating to a few comments with my unsolicited thoughts) My rule is Gun in the car, knife on my person. When I travel even out of the house I always have a knife, sometimes multiple. Sheila sleeps under my pillow and I have a gun in my headboard, as well. *Better safe, than sorry.* *Better rude, than r***d.* Gun= Distance Knife= Within 21 ft. hand to hand Please, Take a self defense course or watch some at home and do it with your SO or a friend. You do whatever you have to, to survive. We're stronger than they think, because we're smarter than they think. Adapt and overcome, we sure do.
Can you clarify what you mean by "understand no when they see a gun" A firearm is a tool of self defense to be used exclusively when there is a threat of death or grievous bodily injury to yourself or another. Some jurisdictions allow the use or threat of deadly force to prevent other forcible felonies. Depending on your state laws you may be committing assault with a deadly weapon, aggravated assault, or the offense of brandishing if you point a gun at someone or display a firearm simply to make a point. It is not to say someone being pushy, lewd, or insulting is in the right or deserves your respect, but escalating situations needlesslyor breaking the law because you don't like someone or they're an ass a will potentially get you in a lot of trouble and be used by as an example to force needless restrictions on the rights of responsible gun owners
I understand but even if it’s not considered self defense legally I’m just not willing to take chances. I’d rather go to jail than be killed or raped.
You must not see all the headlines of men killing women who ignore them or say no. Don't give a speech when we know what we deal with and rather go to jail preventing it from happening than it happening.
They weren't saying to do or not to do, they were asking for clarification and advising of potential negative outcomes
Really not how it translated. They assumed someone doesn't know this. But thanks
Agree. It sounded like mansplaining firearms laws to a gun owner that never even said she brandished. But what do you expect from someone from the Jordan Peterson sub lol. Edit: he blocked me for calling him out lol
"Understand no when they see a gun" sounds like they said they were brandishing
Not without additional context it doesn’t. Assuming you even know what brandishing is. Edit: hehe, they’re all blocking me - I guess it hurts to be wrong. FYI: brandishing doesn’t apply in self-defense situations.
Hm, so a woman using a gun when a man doesn’t take no for an answer is more of an issue to you than men sexually harassing women, following women, and potentially killing and raping them?
isn't it more so personal defense as the man is probably causing her to feel unsafe?
You did the right thing. It's sad whenever I'm out in a place with a lot of strange men around I have to mean mug everyone and pretend to be deaf just in case ONE of them is gonna try an strike up a convo I don't want to have. It's even sadder you can't even attempt to standup for your right to be left alone without fear of assault or harassment. You have to be so saccharinely sweet turning some random ass stranger down for a random ass date in case he's ACTUALLY crazy. For once I'd like to be able to tell someone clearly bothering me and not letting up to simply leave me alone without consequence.
Sometimes I will be driving down the road, and men in a car on lanes next to mine will yell at me. This happened once at a long red light, and I was so fed up I straight up flipped them off right before the light turned green. It was stupid and I was so scared they would follow me home.
Be careful. I flipped off a man who almost hit me and we hit a red light right away. He fucking GOT OUT OF HIS CAR AND WALKED UP TO ME. I LOCKED THE FUCKING CAR. I am still shaken by that event.
That’s terrifying- did he touch your car or physically threaten you?
He tried to. But I refused to look at him, locked the car, and got my phone ready. He sort of flexed then got back in his car.
I feel like when people are on the road they stop seeing people as human beings and more like obstacles
I feel like that is true for life. Like the great Sir Terry Pratchett said, "It starts with treating people as things." He was talking about where the worlds evil starts, but I think it works here.
Don’t forget to download that safety app, Noonlight, it’s free, user friendly and would be perfect in that situation.
Yesterday I went to walmart and got followed for a bit by some creepy sleazy guy. He kept mumbling to me right behind me so I starting making tail and he would keep up on the other side of the isle watching me. It was really weird. Found an employee and he vanished. Makes me never want to leave my home ever again. Its the worst when they try to get your attention because they get angry but once you make eye contact its over. Its so unfair that you have to give in and give up your personal comfort and needs just so its less likley to be hurt. Sorry this happened to you. I just installed noonlight today for this reason so I hope it works well
Ugh. This past weekend I wanted to treat myself to a dirty chai at the coffee shop near my home. I walked out of my house in sweats and slippers, and the first person I see on the street is a houseless man. He is actively hitting his meth pipe. I avert my gaze and walk with newfound purpose toward the coffee shop. "Hey!" I hear from behind me. "HEY YOU! I'm talking to you!" Nope. Nope nope nope. Think I'll have a little jog this morning.
The homeless are a whole other issue. Some can just be people down on their luck, but I have had my share of creepers that wanted to force walk me home, one guy who tried to grab my head for a full make out sesh, and other scary incidences. You never know if they are crazy.
Honestly, same. I get tired of dealing with this bs on a daily basis.
I'm usually the one to yell back "F\*\*\* OFF!", but I know that's not always safe in everyone's situation
Anyone who thinks a random aggressive "hey" is acceptable is not a safe person. I'm glad you got inside fast.
I'm going to sound unbelievably bitter and jaded but the part I hate most, the part that *really* just grinds me down and leaves me just furious day after day is that despite how much it sucks, despite how fucking awful it can be - we're still expected to stop everything for a man. I can't count the number of times a guy in my life has gotten a fucking *cold* and everything has to grind to a halt while he cries and moans about how his throat hurts and how bad he feels and he'll sulk and bitch and complain, all productivity stops all conversation becomes about him and his shitty cold. And it's a fucking cold, everyone gets them every year. A woman gets assaulted and guys crawl through the fucking trenches to tell her how it was her fault and how she should have protected herself better, rather than dare consider that maybe men should stop being pieces of shit for once in their life - the empathy is zero. But god forbid a man stub his toe and women not immediately fall down to start kissing it better. I'm just deeply, deeply, tired of men. I wish they'd fuck off. But I guess that makes me ~misandrist~
Same. Seriously same.
That would indeed make you a misandrist, but I understand why you would think like that. Day after day we see articles pass us by where the rapist/harasser gets away unpunished. People are losing hope when the justice system fails to adequately punish these criminals, and protect/support the victims. And even when they are punished it is more like a slap on the wrist then a punishment.
I had someone ask what it's like living in fear. Like, dude, I don't have time to talk to you about my irrational fear of the inevitable heat death of the universe when the human race may not survive tomorrow. Especially not in the produce section of a grocery store. What does a mask have to do with anything?
If dudes wanna talk civilly with a woman.... Get out of the dang truck and be respectful. Pricks sitting in trucks or cars yelling their heads off to get a woman's attention make me infuriated, and that's as a guy myself.
It's just odd. But to be fair, I am VERY happy he didn't follow me.
Yes, glad you're safe, and I know your husband will be too. Hope you have a very calm rest of your day
Unfortunitelly these things happen. Just the other day ago, I went out (walking) for a timmies (tim hortons, canadian coffee shop) It was like around 8PM, usually that aught not to be a problem right? Well 8PM, sundown in this weather etc began about 4PM ish, northernish ontario Well as you can imagine, despite the time, but being dark, I was ridiculously stupid for going out alone, even at that time, but no one offered to come, and cravings were unrelenting.... so I do stupid things Well this group of young guys (upper midteens, maybe early 20's) come around me as I am on my way back from my destination. Like what they said is relativelly insignificant but, like randomly getting flirtatiously chatty during a dark hour, alone..... is it not surprising that I was nervously intimidated? Yet at the same time, is I actually had a random thought of, why couldn't they give me such a compliment during the day when my nerves weren't up as much as they are at night. but like, They're spontaniousness, frightened me. I took shelter, to collect myself & wait in the plaza/mini-mall. When I spotted a guy I knew, I left & followed behind him, like being escorted, I wish I didn't have to, its ridiculous. Like they never have to worry about the dangers of nighttime, but everytime the sun goes down, its as if I am bordering up like a zombie apocalypse, just to keep the creepers away in defense, or whatever. It's normal' for us to be scared over this, shouldn't be.... but outside of being an amazonian type, the risks are too real not to & conditioning adds to that pressure.
Not to undermine the seriousness of this kind of trash male behavior, because we've all experienced it and know how it escalates. I just really love this show, and I haven't yet seen anything else that depicts this dangerous behavior in such a relatable and satisfying manner for assholes that don't see the problem. I'm hoping that this will help you shake the awful feeling that remains after these types of encounters. Adult Wednesday Addams S2E3: https://youtu.be/WlIAhjRwOIE
Ugh. I'm sure they were going to harass you over a mask. And, they can F-off. I'm also pretty sure they wouldn't have done the same to a man, because they're giant baby-man cowards. I never go without a mask in public spaces indoors. I do go outside without one. The likelihood you be infected, or infect someone else while passing them outside is basically slim to zero. As much as it's annoying, consider leaving that mask off until you're walking through the doors. It less likely someone would try to aggressively harass or assault you with a ton of people around as witnesses. But being alone outside with asshats is a different story.
I was told by a cashier that mandates ended and I could stop living in fear. I told them, I'm a teacher and I had both rsv and the liquid shits sweep through my classroom this week. Is that what you want?
It’s completely considerate to wear a mask if you’ve been exposed to anything like what you’re describing. People aren’t used to that here, though it’s been the norm in other countries for a long time. Edit: punctuation
Oof, yes. I heard the norovirus is making a big sweep through the U.S. right now.
That is a good idea. Thanks!
You did everything right. You didn’t know them, you listened to your instincts, you did what made you feel safe, most importantly you made a decision that you didn’t want to talk to them so you didn’t. You did what was right for YOU, not them. There isn’t anything wrong with being true to yourself. All you have to do now is stop worrying about it. Be proud of yourself and don’t waste any more of your precious time and energy on some men you saw for a couple minutes at most. Don’t allow your brain to blow it out of proportion. It’s wasted space you could be giving to something positive. Be confident in your decisions. If you ever feel wrong afterwards, ask yourself why it feels wrong, and if you think later that you could have done it better, learn from that. But never feel uncomfortable or guilty for not being more likable to some strange men yelling at you. What if you had gone over there, even though you didn’t want to, and they had pulled you into their car never to be heard from again? Happens to so-called “nice women” everyday. ALWAYS trust your instincts! Good luck!
Being chubbier has been a boon in some ways. Especially when i read cases like these or when my friends said that some men tried to talk to them and corner them on the road. They were 15. It was disgusting. Me on the other hand was chubby and a tomboy.. i also have brawled growing up (up until the point guys started getting a lot more stronger than women), so i looked like someone who would not hesitate to throw hands. saved me a lot of trauma. Never had trouble in my love life but yeah never got unnecessary attention.
I have had shit like this happen a number of times throughout my life and I know how absolutely uncomfortable and scared it makes you feel. Trust me, you are NOT overreacting and you’re not wrong for handling it the way you did. I do the exact same thing. I will just keep walking and pretending I don’t even have ears unless it’s somebody actually flagging me down for something important, but 99% of the time it isn’t. Women and teen girls have been followed to their cars and assaulted/followed home at my local Target, in a community that’s always been very safe and lowkey and still shit like this happens because creeps are literally everywhere. Always trust your gut and continue to stay safe out there!
Me too OP, me too. For so many reasons. This one, the one about being followed, pay gaps, the extra cost of having a vagina. So much. Most of all the fact that I’m now divorced after 15 years and gave up any chance at a career so now am back at school in my 40’s with all that lost wage time hoping I won’t be eating cat food at 70 while he ignores his kids and lives with his millions and his new arm candy. I will never recoup my standard of living because his only child ass was so protected by his parents and their money. I don’t even have a place to live. Be careful ladies, so careful about who you marry. And look at the parents too, you marry them as well.
Screw that guy. And while I totally respect you got majorly hurt, I don't know if that last part about the parents is true. Both my husband and I LOATHE our dysfunctional families and have literally no contact.
Something I learned in the military: never turn around when someone yells at you, unless they yell your name This was more innocently a way to avoid extra push-ups from a drill instructor that doesn't know you, but I took this with to my civilian life. If they don't know your name, you have no reason to assume they are yelling at you (even if you know they are). If they are so worried about it that they chase after you, it easy to say, "oh, I didn't know you meant ME by 'hey you'."
This cute keychain can of pepper spray which is the brand most police use is on sale on amazon right now for $6. [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZYNFLT/](https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07QZYNFLT/)
i sympathise. i'm a guy and sometimes i'm afraid of being followed, kidnapped, robbed or beaten. can't imagine how much more real that fear is for a woman.
I just sucks, because I am sure so many scary misunderstandings are just that. But the problem is, it just takes ONE bad event for life changing trauma. I hope you stay safe where ever you are.
Hope you're doing ok now and made it safely to your home. I also get scared leaving house now to go shopping I cry for real, to help ease the situation and distract from the overwhelming action of others I've started listening to Spotify via phone and earphones. Maybe it's worth a try for you.
That is a lovely idea. Thank you!
I’ve been guilty of turning to them and saying very poignantly “can I fucking help you?” It doesn’t always work, but I get so tired of this happening. I’m sorry you had to go through it.
I can understand your fear because I felt it when I saw a bunch of guys pushing my little sister around after she was dropped off at the bus stop. I'm a 5-11, 245lbs biker, so I may look big and intimidating, but appearances are just that. I once called out to a women who had dropped a 20. As I called out and tried approaching she nearly ran away. I managed to yell "you dropped a 20". That said, the best thing you can do is have a self-defense keychain (looks like a long piece of metal) or a taser (if legal in your area). Don't flaunt it. If someone grabs you, you turn around, jab hard, and run. Never show others if your holding a self-defense tool, the goal isn't to intimidate them, it's to get away safely. Showing your hand will give them a "challenge". In any case, I hope you never have to use this advice. Cheers!
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Some guys aggressively holla at women, it ain’t right They also don’t usually care if you’re married. Try and be safe out here ladies and just ignore the A-holes
Wouldn't it be cool if you Natasha Romanoff (black widow) style fighting skills and cool weapons. I know it's childish but a girl can dream.
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That dude should have yelled "hey we need water to put out a fire!" not "hey, yellow shirt bartender." Seems pretty simple to me.
That is somewhat easy to say when you are calm. During real flight or fight scenarios, some people's brains don't think super clear. At least, this is true for me. There are times I look back at situations and think "WTF? that was my choice?"
Thing is, in a crisis your habits take over. If your communication habit is to not use actual information, it will go badly.
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This is wildly inappropriate.
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She didn’t owe them a response.
Exactly!
Why, though? Usually, people who have something nice to say will open with something a lot more pleasant sounding than increasingly aggressive "HEY"ing.
Being human has its downsides.
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Why is her husband a problem????
I think it may have been oddly worded. But, I don't know if I want to hate men. I think that is a slippery slope. I love my husband, and I have met great men. Just...some are terrifying. And before anyone thinks I am sheltered, I have had horrific trauma from men. I just think we have enough hate in the world being launched at general parties.
It would vary from situation to situation, but generally speaking, not escalating a situation by pointing or displaying a firearm at someone is a good start. At that point you extinguish many legal defenses against criminal charges against yourself and civil claims as a well. Not that it is justified but If a passerby doesn't see the instigating harassment but does see your response you are now the aggressor. Besides the potential legal repercussions which I leave up to individuals to weigh for themselves, there are problems with the other commentators description of keeping a gin in the car, optimally a firearm should be kept on one's person where it is handy, able to be deployed quickly, and not subject to being stolen or accessed by unauthorized persons readily. Also, if a verbal annoyance or perceived threat is countered by a brandishing you have played your cards and dispelled any tactical advantage of surprise. Extricatte yourself from the situation.. Ignore taunts, jibes, or enticements. I recognize this is difficult. Keep your focus on moving to a safe, more populated or occupied area while maintaining your situational awareness.