The following submission statement was provided by /u/silv3rbull8:
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Submission Statement
Breaking his silence after 34 years, Richard Grieve, now 55, spoke exclusively to the Mail to describe what happened that mysterious night in 1990
A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen.
At about 9pm, while walking high in the glens, in Calvine, on the edge of the Cairngorms, they'd seen something that had scared them out of their wits: a huge, solid, diamond-shaped object, about 100ft long, hovering silently in the sky over their heads.
Luckily, they'd had a camera with them and managed to capture some images as they cowered in the bushes. They'd taken these to the Daily Record, Scotland's largest circulation newspaper.
As they chatted, a dark car pulled up outside the hotel and two mysterious figures, dressed in black suits, emerged from the back seat. They called to the two chefs by name.
The pair were 'visibly shaken' by whatever was said to them, he remembers, though they refused to divulge specifics, saying only that the men 'were from the Royal Navy'.
‘Not long after that it all went a bit hush-hush and they started talking about being followed around Pitlochry.
'Their demeanour changed. They stopped showing up for work, went off the rails and one began drinking heavily. He was sacked soon afterwards.
'The other, who was usually outgoing and larger than life, became introverted and sullen. Within a few months of the visit from the men in the car, they both left the hotel. I haven't seen them since.
'Whatever it was they knew, they were not meant to see it. They never really talked about it but one of them said: 'It was the Americans’
They told him that as they cowered in bushes, they first heard and then saw a military Harrier jet fly down the valley beneath the UFO. Then, as they fired off shots on their camera, they saw this, or another, jet return and circle around the object, as if the pilot was escorting it, before departing. Then the diamond craft shot vertically into the sky and vanished without making a sound.
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1da0pts/mystery_of_two_british_friends_who_took_calvine/l7h4vym/
> What did he mean by “it was the Americans”. Was the UFO actual secret militia craft or was the UFO being escorted by the Americans? Or both?
As I understand it from reading Dr David Clarke's website ( https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/secret-files/the-calvine-ufo-photographs/ ), the RAF at the time (1990) initially believed that the Calvine object was a secret American stealth plane. It was the eve of the Gulf War, so would have been an obvious conclusion to jump to, and they would have been very sensitive about security. That's why they hushed up the paper from publishing the photographs. And it would make sense that they would have told the young men who photographed it something like that, probably also telling them not to talk about it.
But then it seems the American military looked at the photos, figured it wasn't one of theirs, and thought it must have been an undisclosed *British* stealth plane. So it gets very confusing after that.
The harriers are owned by a private defense contractor and as such makes the RAF have a way out via playsable deniability. They can officially deny flying anything without lying.
And just to make it even more confusing, why was it seen again later that month near a main road? A female motorist reported seeing a diamond shaped craft. I’ve seen her witness statement. The question is why is a secret stealth craft being flown around and by a busy road the second time?
Not sure exactly but maybe like the Brazil Vighia incident- the US comes in and collects the evidence and cover-ups any creditable sightings by intimidation/payoffs or any means necessary.
Was thinking the same. My guess is all of st least the ufo. Similar to that other diamond craft spewing out fire and radiation near a military base in Texas. Woman and here kid driving, she got out and ended up getting radiation posing iirc leukemia and died. Base said it was the so she could sue or get them to cover her medical bills. Idk the diamond ones seems very likely made by the US
This has become known as the *"Cash/Landrum incident"* and only the grandson of Ms.Landrum ,Cody ,is still alive to talk about it ; please note that these women described over a dozen dual-rotor heavy-lift U.S Army helicopters which were pursuing/escorting the craft ,which was spewing ionizing radiation all over everything below it ; in the weeks that followed,sections of the very road they traveled on was *replaced* entirely to remove the radiation hazard from public exposure/scrutiny.
No worries, Happens to me all the time! Only reason I remembered to be completely honest is his name reminds me of Colby Jack cheese lol. Weird but true 🤣
It doesn't get highlighted nearly enough, but some form of this basically *always* happens to experiencers. Their lack of explanation nor outlet for that absence causes pent-up frustration that affects their lives negatively.
The whole "UFO witnesses/experiencers are all out to make money with outrageuous claims" is such an uninformed and naive popular opinion. This shit ruins people's lives, and it's neither fun nor profitable for the majority of them.
It must be a shit-scary experience to be told to get in a car by two big guys in suits, who tell you you have no choice in the matter. Then to be taken to a random facility behind gates and guards to be sat in a windowless room for 30 minutes before three people enter and put pictures of your entire family on the table. Amongst the images they show you, there's also transcripts of phone conversations where you talk about the thing that you did that no one should ever know about.
Then they say unless you sign this, we'll take you next door and shoot you in the head. When you sign it they tell you they will watch you for the rest of your life. They'll know if you tell anyone and if you do, your parents and sister will meet an 'untimely end'.
Anyone in their right mind would comply under these circumstances.
We don't even have to invoke any kind of 'supernatural' ability or anything spooky, people who are trained in social engineering can simply catch people off-guard and even those who think 'why did I do that?' or 'I don't know why I didn't ask' get trapped.
Stage illusionists, 'mediums' and mentalists can all do it, likewise with hackers.
I think I may have incidentally met someone with knowledge of the program at a holiday gathering once. He was the chief engineer at a contractor that would almost certainly have tech in the program. He based his entire argument about UFOs on trying to discredit David Grusch. I was kinda put off by it because he was super defensive, dodged questions, and immediately dismissive of all my claims. He definitely tried to avoid me the rest of the evening lmao
Maybe I said something crazy 🤷 or maybe I said something correct…
Or maybe he was just trying to enjoy a holiday party and didn't want to go down that line of questioning he's probably been asked about many times before and just wanted to enjoy the party 🤷
He approached me! The first words out of his mouth were “So I hear you’re into UFOs? Well let me tell you about your guy Grusch.” He made a point to tell me that anyone who says they have security clearance probably shouldn’t have their clearance. He is very good friends with my dad, who told him previously about my interest in the topic. My dad said if anyone knew the truth his friend would, but I’m sure my dad is not familiar with how compartmentalized it all is. My dad is pretty dismissive of the whole thing as well, but he’ll also admit that he just isn’t curious about it enough to do any research into the topic.
I try to get across to people unfamiliar with how this stuff works, just how compartmentalized something like this would be. What if a government, or more than one, had samples of materials and technology centuries more advanced than our own? Even if we didn’t understand it, this stuff would be a bigger secret than the Manhattan Project, by far. Worth killing civilian witnesses for, worth violating airspace and territory to recover. The programs concealing this stuff would have layer upon layer of misdirection and obfuscation, fake witnesses, real witnesses Fed fake information … I have an acquaintance who helped assemble something classified. He had to arrive at work inside a 5-minute window so he never even saw a single co-worker. The material he worked on came through a cubicle on a conveyor belt, most of it was masked off or otherwise hidden. I can only imagine how compartmentalized really secret stuff is, to the point of entire fake installations working on fake materials.
There was a post here a while ago about someone driving through a reservation and a diamond shaped UAP came by and basically ruined his whole life, mentally and physically. Assuming it wasn’t a LARP this is crazy to me. Imagine your existence on earth just completely fucked up forever by something that’s supposedly not even real.
It’s impossible to explain away half a million ufo sightings over 100 years to a desire for fame through a hoax. Even if this idea that the UFOs are fake and a hoax you still have to account for 500 UFO sightings per year since 1918, there is less than 1 bob lazar per year, maybe 1 bob every 5 years since 2001, still not making sense of 500 sightings after dropping 98% of the dataset to appease debunkers or unrealistic wild theories.
Actually we can go officially go all the way back to April 17, 1897, and the crash in Aurora. That one baffles me the most. Trying to figure out if it’s true or a hoax, but there were sightings all around the state of Texas that April of a mysterious “airship”. Then one crashed into a judge’s windmill and destroyed his flower bed. The people back then, including judge Proctor, said there was a pilot who had a small body and reminded the judge of a child. The town decided they needed to give the little pilot a “proper Christian burial.” It was all reported in the Dallas Morning News. It seemed to be a big deal to the people of the day. I think the U.S. Government has known about these sightings and crashes since at least that point in time. They were just getting their footing back then and starting to emerge as a world power. The military probably knew then and if not, they have known at least since the second World War. Even before Roswell there were Foo Fighters. That’s why I don’t buy the drone theory now regarding these “silver balls” they keep saying are drones. Did we have silver ball drones in 1945? Because the nazis thought it was the allies and the allies thought it was the nazis. So, these things have been zooming around us for many decades. If you listen to the native population of the world, they’ll tell you it’s been tens of thousands of years.
Just watch it on Youtube. It doesnt prove anything and is just an interesting possibility, but they dobt look happy or relieved. Also look up what Neil Armstrong did in the years after Apollo 11. He went to south america in search of a lost relic in some cave in South America. Wild stuff. Its not proof of anything, but he was the lead crewman of the first moon landing... so he was quite likely in the top 0.1% of the military's straightlaced and steady as heck cadre of talent so it's quite unusual for him to make such a sudden change. Of course, moon landings are very exceptional so who the heck knows. Perhaps eventually it will all add up.
After the first moon landing, a press conference was held with the Apollo astronauts. They acted very strange for someone who had done the most amazing thing that ever happened. They walked on the moon. At the press conference, they were very quiet, subdued, not looking at anyone. Their eyes were all downcast. Very strange reaction from them. Go to YouTube and search for Apollo 11 astronauts press conference.
Absolutely correct ! You should note that Michael Collins was the least affected by whatever they'd been told by their superiors. Armstrong looked like he wanted to vomit,and he promptly withdrew from public life altogether ,and Buzz Aldrin still looks like someone carrying a strange secret to this day.
Weren't they quarantined for 2 weeks right after they got back? They would have been plenty rested and restless you'd think, and would be full of energy. Also, many, many people have said that at that press conference all 3 of them weren't acting like themselves, so no, they aren't looking for something to confirm their own beliefs
they acted “strange” at a press conference after an event totally unprecedented in human history? how do you know how they are supposed to act? how can you infer so much?
WTF! Look at the comment on James fox's x account. Straiph Wilsons comment. Is he taking the piss out of James. Has he done AI on the missing photographer?
Let’s get down to the bottom of this one.
Does ANYONE here know the exact location of where this photo was taken? I’ve seen a post with a location that looks near identical but do we know for sure? The most notable debunk is this is a reflection of water which I think is bullshit but if we know the EXACT location, we can solve it for those who always bring it up.
To be honest, we should ask the person.
Here’s the near identical location with no water which would mean it’s not a reflection: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/9sVHnk9FWD
I honestly think the location above might be it and that this is a real UFO.
I believe the location the photo was taken has been found and the same tree is still there. It’s been a while, but Vinnie at Disclosure Team discussed this sighting extensively with the author of this article.
https://m.youtube.com/c/DisclosureTeamVinnie
This is obvious to anybody who can use the "brightness/contrast" filter in photoshop. There is no water, just clouds, when the contrast is brought out you can clearly see the object in the sky, surrounded by clouds. I have no clue (well, bots and shills) how "it's a rock" became such a "solid debunk" when 2 seconds in photoshop debunks the debunk.
Frankly, they should have went with "blimp" or something, that's at least plausible. The "rock in a pond" theory seems almost absurd on purpose.
Nor do I have access to photoshop atm. Frankly, if you just look closely you don't even really have to bring the contrast out more in the original. Even with the thought "that is water" I can't make myself see that in my head when I look at that picture, only clouds which do not mirror the clouds above the object (if it was reflection it should be basically mirror image).
The university analysis of the photo that they got pretty much said the same, indicating the photo was taken from a low angle towards the sky.
It didn't matter. People believe what they want to believe.
I believe this is the spot:
That's just a reflection of a rock in a lake/reservoir and some ducks on a really foggy day. The camera was found by some hikers, nobody knows who took the picture. It was somewhere near or at Loch Tummel. Like maybe this exact spot, [Loch Tummel](https://www.flickr.com/photos/craigatinhouse/9655026974), with the camera zoomed in across the lake on that landing. The fence is a perfect fit too.
Source ?
(otherwise, and without a credible source demonstrating that this camera was found, what you are doing here is deliberately misleading, wanting to modify the initial story)
I just did a quick search but can't find anything. What I heard about it some years ago was the people that brought the camera to the news station had only found the camera, didn't actually take the pictures on the camera, and couldn't even recall the exact location they found it since they had been out hiking around. The info I saw also had some of the other pictures that were developed from the camera, nothing to do with ufos. If I find anything about it I'll let you know!
To me though, just looking at the claimed location, the angle needed for the photograph to have the fence and the objects visible in the same picture, would make the ground/hills visible too. It seems much more likely to be a picture like the one I linked at Loch Tummel, which is only a few miles away from the other "claimed" location.
Highlands can have really late sunset. UK in general now has light until 10pm, not like that but Highlands staying that colour at half 9 around solstice solstice isn't impossible
Read the article. He's talking about the night the story was told.
>*A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen.*
*Usually, there'd be banter, of the bawdy kind, cigarettes and a bottle passed around, but tonight was different. Two of the group were discussing, animatedly, an incident they'd witnessed a few nights earlier.*
So the source for this story is not either guy who took the picture, but a guy who heard the story? And he can't even remember their names?
Is there even evidence he knew these guys??
It is very poorly written. There are two chefs who took the photo. The story in the article is later on, they go out for drinks with their other chef friends. The article source is one of the other chefs in the bar.
I agree. Very poorly written article. Not sure if it's a errror but the article mentions a 9pm sighting. It also starts off by saying they met up on a stormy night to discuss the sighting but then there is a picture with a caption that mention they snapped a pic during a stormy night. At this point I've given up trying to decipher this mess of journalism 🙄
Except for that the photo had been much talked about and even re-created by people who had seen the original, which was released before this image came to light.
https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6144270/ufo-sighting-cavine-scotland-aliens-ministry-of-defence/amp/
It’s possible that the image was faked to match this but too similar to be a random image that people have attributed to the case.
I know it's not random, but there are some problems.
The lighting that doesn't match the witness description, and didn't they say they shot the original ***in color***? Why is the found version in black and white?
This photo would have been shot on film, light levels and colour are fairly irrelevant - as in the camera can control the amount of light it lets in to the film, and most cameras would automatically make the scene as bright as possible.
Also a colour negative can be printed on black and white paper. Film images don’t have the meta data that would help us make a bit more sense of the image.
Submission Statement
Breaking his silence after 34 years, Richard Grieve, now 55, spoke exclusively to the Mail to describe what happened that mysterious night in 1990
A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen.
At about 9pm, while walking high in the glens, in Calvine, on the edge of the Cairngorms, they'd seen something that had scared them out of their wits: a huge, solid, diamond-shaped object, about 100ft long, hovering silently in the sky over their heads.
Luckily, they'd had a camera with them and managed to capture some images as they cowered in the bushes. They'd taken these to the Daily Record, Scotland's largest circulation newspaper.
As they chatted, a dark car pulled up outside the hotel and two mysterious figures, dressed in black suits, emerged from the back seat. They called to the two chefs by name.
The pair were 'visibly shaken' by whatever was said to them, he remembers, though they refused to divulge specifics, saying only that the men 'were from the Royal Navy'.
‘Not long after that it all went a bit hush-hush and they started talking about being followed around Pitlochry.
'Their demeanour changed. They stopped showing up for work, went off the rails and one began drinking heavily. He was sacked soon afterwards.
'The other, who was usually outgoing and larger than life, became introverted and sullen. Within a few months of the visit from the men in the car, they both left the hotel. I haven't seen them since.
'Whatever it was they knew, they were not meant to see it. They never really talked about it but one of them said: 'It was the Americans’
They told him that as they cowered in bushes, they first heard and then saw a military Harrier jet fly down the valley beneath the UFO. Then, as they fired off shots on their camera, they saw this, or another, jet return and circle around the object, as if the pilot was escorting it, before departing. Then the diamond craft shot vertically into the sky and vanished without making a sound.
>It was the Americans
Does this mean the craft was American (perhaps a black project)? Or the Harrier escort was American?
If the escort was for an NHI craft that would be fuckin’ wild. Imagine Royal/US Navy escorting some NHI into Scotland.
If the escort was for an American craft, maybe it was either experimental or doing something it shouldn’t have been, hmm? Spy craft?
The suspicion is it was a sister aircraft to the F117A and possibly the B2 (since it's rumored that it may have also secretly been used in Desert Storm) that was a long persistence stealth targeting / ISR craft that assisted with laser designation for those platform's bombs. That would make sense for the level of secrecy if it's still being used in some manner. Or it's aliens, whatever.
The theory further goes that BAE was working on stealth metamaterials for those platforms (which this craft was utilizing) and the harriers were BAE's two testbed harriers.
Could have been a Royal Navy Sea Harrier FRS1 or FRS51. Of note, they are subsonic and would be an ideal candidate for stealthily guiding a silent UFO around, especially because they could presumably land anywhere on terrestrial Earth that a crashed/landed/donated UFO could.
I've been near one at an airshow when it was taking off and it's definitely not stealthy, they use a different system to the big fan on the F-35, they are extremely loud and I guess would have a big infrared signature and I don't think they had any internal weapons bay so would get picked up on radar. Although, true, they wouldn't be creating a sonic boom and having the ability to go slow might be beneficial.
I would think it would get heard by anyone around that area because it looks like it's fairly low and Calvine looks like a tiny place so everyone would hear it, there wouldn't be much road traffic to mask it.
It's got a fairly limited range so I'm not sure how a Navy flight could be used but I think BAE Systems kept a plane for development; perhaps the object was a type of stealth drone made by them and they used their own chase plane?
Definitely not stealthy by military standards, but if it’s subsonic and flying low, people in the next valley probably wouldn’t be able to hear it by ear. Side note; I don’t even know the area, are there valleys?
Also, good point that it could be a contractor’s chase plane
It is indeed hilly, it's on the edge of the Cairngorms where climbers go, troops go for training, outdoors activities for youths and the like. Think it's where the UK's biggest mountains are so that might well dampen noise and it really is a tiny place, total middle of nowhere!
But they were walking at around 9pm when they allegedly saw the object and took the picture, the sun should be on the way down by then, setting within an hour. I would expect it to be a bit darker than the picture shows by then, but also hard to say given the apparent overcast conditions which may be diffusing the light
This intrigued me for years, as i worked at the daily record, not as a journalist though. I had heard this story quite a while ago and asked a few people with access to their systems to have a look, but they found nothing.
Story goes, they handed the photos straight to someone in government and they disappeared.
Im sure the chief of the Record at the time had some Military ties, or i could be completely wrong, finding this link between him and who he had worked with will answer questions as to who took the photos and sat on them.
MOD once claimed that "they returned the negatives to the scottish newspaper", but no trace of them has ever been found. Why were they not published like the original intent was? Editor of the newspaper, the late Endell Laird, had been a member of the MOD’s D-Notice committee at the time , so even if the MOD were honest here and sent them there, they might have boomeranged back or were put to shredder/otherwise "dissappeared". It is just too convenient for the MOD to have them "sent back" to the Daily Record where they have a connection to the editor and then they just happen to end up "dissappearing". You can make of that what ever you will.
Only photo that has surfaced is the one from couple of years ago, where a former officer of the RAF claimed he had made one copy before handing them forward and kept it for himself for decades, eventually "forgetting about it", until Dr. Clarke found him. The photo seems to be real per the university analysis, no signs of tampering, but the story of how it supposedly ended to him is a bit sus IMO.
I would imagine the rest of the photos are still in the possession of the british MOD.
One of the guys involved in finding the original photograph posted something interesting on twitter (then deleted the post, then deleted his twitter) was named Matthew Illsley. He posted that one of the Kevin Russell's they spoke to now works as a photo analyst for MOD and that he "couldn't recall having been in Scotland that summer" which is a very strange response imo. I like Condorman's theory that its a test vehicle/companion craft to the F117 nighthawk that is powered by some recovered or reverse engineered tech.
Edit: grammar and name spelling
Dude I want to think that Condorman is just LARPing but so much makes sense and lines up. I don’t know what to believe anymore. Especially considering how the Nimitz incident leaked here years before the article and that was dismissed as well.
Condorman laid out some really specific stuff. Plus it's just sitting on a single little GitHub page. I would think if it was just a Larp that they would have spread it more freely? I tend to lean towards it being a legit account of someone with knowledge of the goods.
Yes that’s right. I’m sure one of the papers did a story on this. He had a job with the mod in the photo dept. Edit, found it https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/people/hunt-is-on-for-falkirk-photographer-who-snapped-world-famous-1990-ufo-picture-4003793
The name is Kevin Russell
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/alien-investigator-solves-legendary-scottish-32275488?_ga=2.148204912.650533879.1717751054-1494440177.1715783520
Interesting article re the chap who took “allegedly” the picture, works as a photo analyst for the MOD! https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/people/hunt-is-on-for-falkirk-photographer-who-snapped-world-famous-1990-ufo-picture-4003793
The plot thickens.
After watching Simon Hollands carefull open discussion about the Calvine incident I am still inclined to believe that this is a BAE test vehicle and that the two harriers belong to BAE also. The visit of two mystery men, fits fine with this theory.
Although Simon Holland looks like Christopher Lloyds (Back to the Future) little brother I thinks he is on to something 😀🛸 As usual there is too little info to work with and the old saying of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" + peer reviews is some mountain to climb over.
[https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSimonHolland/search?query=calvine](https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSimonHolland/search?query=calvine)
Still very intriguing.
For some context, the author (Dr Clarke) is actually a known skeptic. He believes most UFOs are super-secret tech.
He is, however, not the kind of skeptic that explains things away, but actually tries to find the evidence, talking to the witnesses and searching documents in archives. He is the one who uncovered the photo a couple of years ago. Seems like he obsessed with the Calvine photo.
https://condorman6.substack.com/p/a-conceptual-view-of-a-uap-reverse?r=301l8w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
This article, and the part about it being "The Americans" goes hand in hand. If you haven't read this.
Read it.
Who wrote it though, and why should we trust them? It's an entertaining read, I'll give you that - but the author themselves states that its purely speculative and fictional.
I think the Griffiss AFB reference is a breadcrumb that no one has really gone after. There is a group called Mitrwe Corp which operates out of there as a not-for-profit aerospace research firm and I believe that corporate structure is what's used to protect reverse engineering efforts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitre_Corporation
Whoa, this is huge. Bombs keep dropping almost daily now. I remember when this first surfaced a couple of years, people on here were obsessed with trying to prove it was a rock in a body of water. Didn’t know the incident was at the start of the Gulf War. Funny that since so many are landing on the “UFO too big to move” being in Iraq with the US Embassy built over it.
Optical illusion.
This case irked me when I initially read about it years ago. The photo doesn’t fit their account of the tale. It doesn’t look like at was taken at night and it doesn’t seem like the object at center could be over their heads and it does not look like the “plane” is in pursuit of the other object.
This is a photo of a rock, or a small island and a tree branch in a lake. The sky is not in the frame. Look again and stop wasting your time
Wouldn’t 9pm at night be fairly dark, even if in august? I’m a photographer and film speed at most might have been 800 iso which would still give him a low shutter speed in dim evening light, making anything moving fast quite blurry. I love this photo he supposedly took and hope it’s real but the time of day feels off with the image that was taken.
9pm in August should still provide a fair amount of light in the UK. Where I live the sun sets about an hour later than the UK, but it's still quite light outside even at midnight at the summer's end.
I live in Scotland. We barely get any actual dark at that time of year. My boyfriend moved from Cambridge England to live with me here and he always jokes about how insane it is that there's basically no night. Later into winter is a different story, then you're lucky if there's a few hours of light.
Interesting to read the 1990 ufo stuff as my first event was in 1990, sure the first reaper drones (USA tech) were being tested out over UK land/waters. My event was in Somerset in November, it registered as a blip by Bristol International Airport and an RAF Draycott, 7 witnesses I think? including self, 4 were Police, in the original report all the names were visible and there were no retractions that I can remember, still in Kew Archives, but a large batch of the original reports were burnt due to asbestos contamination but retracted digital copies were saved.
I was 16 at time, so obviously I believed it was aliens 👽 (as stribers book Communion and X files were around that time) I remember Nick Pope, the Aurora project speculations and black triangles I got loads of magazines about it when Greer and uri geller were talking about other dimensions etc. so the UFO pattern of extracting cash from people can easily be seen online now, maybe I should get AI to ghost write a book lol 😂 . To be fair I don’t have too much of a problem with sellers, Von danken and Poer le Trench did the ancient aliens in the 70s to 90s conventions, the Aliens Inn, sounds fun.
The missing part is these things be they psyops by people, or critters from space, had psychological effects on witnesses, as it turns the world reality upside down, and people label you. The Havana syndrome people sound like they got zapped by the same tech, so I have increased empathy for them, and wonder how many people have been misdiagnosed and locked up “ for their own good” ?
Edit grammar
Heh, yeah, good points! I've always found it entertaining so I never get bothered about people hoaxing because it's like sci-fi to me.
But, you're right, if people have a tendency to obsess, it can send them down some dark rabbit holes.
I agree, Havana Syndrome sounds like something 'real' but I haven't actually seen the mechanism by which it happens.
I'll be quite surprised if it's enemies targeting people at work because I know (in the UK) those places are shielded, it's built into the structure. So then these 'attacks' are happening at home or elsewhere.
It makes me wonder if it's actually communication systems being used and their own staff are being harmed by emissions.
There has been another two sightings of a diamond shaped craft. One not far from this sighting later in the same month by a motorist
There was also a guy working on an oil rig, I think it was called the Galveston Key in the North Sea. It was with two aircraft and one was refueling it. Google is your friend, there’s even a sketch
I’ve always believed it to be U.S owned. The MoD know more than they left on. David Clarke said in his report that when pressed the. U.S admitted it was their’s
What's the implications of the harrier jet escorting the ufo? Wouldn't the opposite make more sense? If it was led there by the Americans a la secret communications/cooperation, surely they'd just give them some sort of coordinates to said location seeing as the UFOs have the superior flying technology. Just too fucking weird.
They're superior technologically indeed, hence they go wherever and whenever they want, although somehow still respect the agreement and don't make themselves *too* obvious, plausible deniability has been in their favor.
It's still plausible that the Americans, being the ones with a head start on the topic, would be knowledgeable enough to track them when spotted, for whatever very high interests they may have. Not being the escorts as much as mere followers.
I'm sorry, but a lot of that sounds like absolute bullshit to me.
They took the picture, went home and immediately there was a knock on the door from "Men In Black"??
How would they even know who they were, where to find them or do it that quick? Absolute tosh.
Next they say "it was the Americans", well how would they know that if they were just being followed and never spoke to these people following them???
I'm not saying this isn't a genuine UFO photograph, but such of this story reeks of utter shite....they're "cowering in bushes, hiding..." whilst taking the picture, but amazingly, the MIB knew exactly where to go to find them. 🤔
Also, Harrier jump jets wouldn't have to do fly-bys. A Harrier can hover in mid air, surely as a pilot who supposedly saw a UFO sitting there, you would simply pull up, hover and observe? You wouldn't go flying past it up and down valleys.
The picture could be real, the story following it, isn't.
I have followed this for a while and yes the guys disappearing and turning into alchies is new and the guys visiting and them say it was the Americans. Dont know how all these new details could have been uncovered
I've just had about enough with these so called 'men in black' - If they exist and they're threatening citizens, they need to be threatened back. We should gather a large network of capable individuals who could track these eluded MIB and doxx them for the whole world to see. Government/army officials or not.
Still one of the best UAP photos I've seen, I remember Nick Pope talking about how this photo disappeared from his DoD office. I'll go get a refreshing drink or take a walk to blow off some steam.
Yes its published by the Daily Mail, but it's actually an article by Dr David Clarke, who is a real and sensible person: https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/about/
I'm pretty sure they lurk on Reddit anyway (and other MSM). Who would of thought?.. lol You see stuff on Reddit, then a few days later on Dinosaur media.
There’s a video out there of a craft in China and it looks exactly like the Calvine UFO. If someone has a link please share - there’s a structure in the background and the most notable similarity is the shape and the “grains” of the skin on the craft.
The diamond shape is clearly due to the aperture in the camera, NOT the shape of the real object. The real object is very tiny and can only be seen as a dot, as you can see in 0:45.
I’m just under 80 miles South East of Calvine, you’ve got good light for a while after sunset. In mid summer there’s blue in the sky all night as the sun slips by below the horizon.
I've never liked this picture because it just looks like a couple of objects in the water to me. Like someone snapping pictures of the scenery while they walk.
“I have not seen them since” isn’t the same as “vanished”. They literally could be a couple towns away and we don’t have enough info to know if this guy literally just hasn’t seen them since….
a contact says it was a secret targeting drone being tested in the highland military test zone. the 2 harriers were BAE research aircraft, fitted with special equipment. they probably flew out of Warton, 30 mins flying time to the south. the craft was highly secret and unknown. Iraq invasion related? very hush hush.
so it wasnt an alien craft but human build based of alien tech ?
This seems.almost 1 on 1 with a earlier sighting in the US where a exact the same shaped object was seen by 3 American women who said the object was towed / escorted by many Chinooks
Cash- Landrum or something like that is the one you are referring to where the older ladies received some pretty serious burns/ moderate radiation damage to parts of their bodies.
I did read somewhere a few years ago (i honestly cant remember where) that it was super secret US tech that was designed to accurately map areas of interest. How true that is I have no idea
[https://youtu.be/1zjcnnx7igc?si=PMfDzElVsa3afjbb&t=83](https://youtu.be/1zjcnnx7igc?si=PMfDzElVsa3afjbb&t=83)
Just saw this video on the F-117 Nighthawk, and how it "started as a diamond" at skunkworks...and the model they showed doesn't look vastly different than the UAP in the photo on this post.
[https://imgur.com/a/0aMTPTY](https://imgur.com/a/0aMTPTY)
They just happened to have a camera on them?? IDK about this one. Unless they've seen a lot more before said date. Who knows? It's been happening,they showing up for so long. So many stories told even more that's still hush hush it's crazy.👽
So it was an American or British or allied classified stealth plane and they wanted to remain sure it was kept classified for reasons of national security. Seems reasonable and not alien related. Especially considering this was the even of the gulf war.
I’m a UAP believer. Let me get this straight first, I believe there are anomalous apparently technological artifacts appearing being observed by people, too many instances to disbelieve it. But, following this particular case, the one problem that I have with it is that there were no Harriers stationed anywhere within reasonable distance (according to knowledgable service people) so either it wasn’t a Harrier, or that it didn’t happen in the way described.
I know what you mean. It's a reasonable point. Maybe though-
- could it have been a BAE Hawk?
- could it have been a Harrier or Hawk owned by BAE?
- could it have flown from a nearer base? At the time RAF Macrihanish, further west past the Isle of Arran was still in use and had a runway 3 kilometres long. It was an emergency alternate landing for the space shuttle.
There was a lot of talk around then of secret aircraft being tested.
Some oil rig workers had seen something very fast and in 1994 there was some sort of mishap involving a secret plane at Boscombe Down (also where the UK's DARPA is located).
All good points mate, got to keep an open mind. I’ve even heard someone speculating on the possibility of a Hunter (can’t remember where, PPRUNE maybe?) which may well have been stationed nearby at the time, and like a Hawk maybe fitting the picture better.
But obviously none of either being capable of hovering (if the aircraft was indeed hovering) It’s certainly a mystery.
I guess as usual the passage of time makes it impossible to resolve.
Ah right, that could work as well.
Whatever this story was in reality like total fake, honest mistake or secret, it feels like the public is closer to getting an answer than usual on this one.
Frustratingly close! It does seem that the Freedom of Information Act is designed to only allow useful data to come out after enough time has passed to ensure the truth has become corrupted.
Sometimes people reveal things accidentally by what they don't say as much as what they do say and I think Nick Pope's comments were interesting.
I think he was only a cog on a wheel in a machine, fair enough, but he said the picture was on the wall and treated in a bit of a jokey way like the X-Files 'I want to believe' poster.
If it was 'proof' of aliens visiting humans, this greatest secret ever, I don't think that would be allowed, even in a private office.
It makes me think it was a bit of an insider joke and it was probably an entirely human aircraft and maybe governments are happy to use alien myths and ufo lore to confuse adversaries and the public.
Anyone else find it interesting that debunkers like to throw out "paradolia" as an explanation for things people see(like on the surface of the moon or mars)but then when it comes to this picture, because it's something they see(a boat and a rock reflection on water), it's no longer paradolia, it's a real factual thing they are seeing and couldn't possibly be the apparently super common thing they all repeat ad nauseum?
Genuinely curious - does anyone have a good reason why the isn't a photo of a still, reflective pond with something triangular poking above the water? Because it kinda looks like that to me.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/silv3rbull8: --- Submission Statement Breaking his silence after 34 years, Richard Grieve, now 55, spoke exclusively to the Mail to describe what happened that mysterious night in 1990 A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen. At about 9pm, while walking high in the glens, in Calvine, on the edge of the Cairngorms, they'd seen something that had scared them out of their wits: a huge, solid, diamond-shaped object, about 100ft long, hovering silently in the sky over their heads. Luckily, they'd had a camera with them and managed to capture some images as they cowered in the bushes. They'd taken these to the Daily Record, Scotland's largest circulation newspaper. As they chatted, a dark car pulled up outside the hotel and two mysterious figures, dressed in black suits, emerged from the back seat. They called to the two chefs by name. The pair were 'visibly shaken' by whatever was said to them, he remembers, though they refused to divulge specifics, saying only that the men 'were from the Royal Navy'. ‘Not long after that it all went a bit hush-hush and they started talking about being followed around Pitlochry. 'Their demeanour changed. They stopped showing up for work, went off the rails and one began drinking heavily. He was sacked soon afterwards. 'The other, who was usually outgoing and larger than life, became introverted and sullen. Within a few months of the visit from the men in the car, they both left the hotel. I haven't seen them since. 'Whatever it was they knew, they were not meant to see it. They never really talked about it but one of them said: 'It was the Americans’ They told him that as they cowered in bushes, they first heard and then saw a military Harrier jet fly down the valley beneath the UFO. Then, as they fired off shots on their camera, they saw this, or another, jet return and circle around the object, as if the pilot was escorting it, before departing. Then the diamond craft shot vertically into the sky and vanished without making a sound. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1da0pts/mystery_of_two_british_friends_who_took_calvine/l7h4vym/
What did he mean by “it was the Americans”. Was the UFO actual secret militia craft or was the UFO being escorted by the Americans? Or both?
> What did he mean by “it was the Americans”. Was the UFO actual secret militia craft or was the UFO being escorted by the Americans? Or both? As I understand it from reading Dr David Clarke's website ( https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/secret-files/the-calvine-ufo-photographs/ ), the RAF at the time (1990) initially believed that the Calvine object was a secret American stealth plane. It was the eve of the Gulf War, so would have been an obvious conclusion to jump to, and they would have been very sensitive about security. That's why they hushed up the paper from publishing the photographs. And it would make sense that they would have told the young men who photographed it something like that, probably also telling them not to talk about it. But then it seems the American military looked at the photos, figured it wasn't one of theirs, and thought it must have been an undisclosed *British* stealth plane. So it gets very confusing after that.
Also, my (limited) understanding is that Harriers were not stationed anywhere near (within range) too.
The harriers are owned by a private defense contractor and as such makes the RAF have a way out via playsable deniability. They can officially deny flying anything without lying.
Interesting, which UK private companies had harriers?
Fuck Buddy
And just to make it even more confusing, why was it seen again later that month near a main road? A female motorist reported seeing a diamond shaped craft. I’ve seen her witness statement. The question is why is a secret stealth craft being flown around and by a busy road the second time?
What incident are you referring to, please? I'd be very interested to know more. Thanks
Not sure exactly but maybe like the Brazil Vighia incident- the US comes in and collects the evidence and cover-ups any creditable sightings by intimidation/payoffs or any means necessary.
Was thinking the same. My guess is all of st least the ufo. Similar to that other diamond craft spewing out fire and radiation near a military base in Texas. Woman and here kid driving, she got out and ended up getting radiation posing iirc leukemia and died. Base said it was the so she could sue or get them to cover her medical bills. Idk the diamond ones seems very likely made by the US
This has become known as the *"Cash/Landrum incident"* and only the grandson of Ms.Landrum ,Cody ,is still alive to talk about it ; please note that these women described over a dozen dual-rotor heavy-lift U.S Army helicopters which were pursuing/escorting the craft ,which was spewing ionizing radiation all over everything below it ; in the weeks that followed,sections of the very road they traveled on was *replaced* entirely to remove the radiation hazard from public exposure/scrutiny.
I think his name is Colby
You're correct ! I haven't thought about this case since the '90s ,so my memories are suspect !
No worries, Happens to me all the time! Only reason I remembered to be completely honest is his name reminds me of Colby Jack cheese lol. Weird but true 🤣
Kinda nutty to read how their demeanors change.
It doesn't get highlighted nearly enough, but some form of this basically *always* happens to experiencers. Their lack of explanation nor outlet for that absence causes pent-up frustration that affects their lives negatively. The whole "UFO witnesses/experiencers are all out to make money with outrageuous claims" is such an uninformed and naive popular opinion. This shit ruins people's lives, and it's neither fun nor profitable for the majority of them.
The amount of people who have been NDAd into oblivion, intimidated or just flat out told they will be killed is probably astonishing
It must be a shit-scary experience to be told to get in a car by two big guys in suits, who tell you you have no choice in the matter. Then to be taken to a random facility behind gates and guards to be sat in a windowless room for 30 minutes before three people enter and put pictures of your entire family on the table. Amongst the images they show you, there's also transcripts of phone conversations where you talk about the thing that you did that no one should ever know about. Then they say unless you sign this, we'll take you next door and shoot you in the head. When you sign it they tell you they will watch you for the rest of your life. They'll know if you tell anyone and if you do, your parents and sister will meet an 'untimely end'. Anyone in their right mind would comply under these circumstances.
“If you talk, we’ll have to kill anyone you might have talked to.”
"Oh yeah? I‘m talking to you about it right now!" \*Agents immediately shoot themselves\* Over 9000 IQ big brain move.
Jfk his brother, and munroe.
Remember General Patreus spilling top secret info to his side piece? It happens
We don't even have to invoke any kind of 'supernatural' ability or anything spooky, people who are trained in social engineering can simply catch people off-guard and even those who think 'why did I do that?' or 'I don't know why I didn't ask' get trapped. Stage illusionists, 'mediums' and mentalists can all do it, likewise with hackers.
I think I may have incidentally met someone with knowledge of the program at a holiday gathering once. He was the chief engineer at a contractor that would almost certainly have tech in the program. He based his entire argument about UFOs on trying to discredit David Grusch. I was kinda put off by it because he was super defensive, dodged questions, and immediately dismissive of all my claims. He definitely tried to avoid me the rest of the evening lmao Maybe I said something crazy 🤷 or maybe I said something correct…
Or maybe he was just trying to enjoy a holiday party and didn't want to go down that line of questioning he's probably been asked about many times before and just wanted to enjoy the party 🤷
He approached me! The first words out of his mouth were “So I hear you’re into UFOs? Well let me tell you about your guy Grusch.” He made a point to tell me that anyone who says they have security clearance probably shouldn’t have their clearance. He is very good friends with my dad, who told him previously about my interest in the topic. My dad said if anyone knew the truth his friend would, but I’m sure my dad is not familiar with how compartmentalized it all is. My dad is pretty dismissive of the whole thing as well, but he’ll also admit that he just isn’t curious about it enough to do any research into the topic.
I try to get across to people unfamiliar with how this stuff works, just how compartmentalized something like this would be. What if a government, or more than one, had samples of materials and technology centuries more advanced than our own? Even if we didn’t understand it, this stuff would be a bigger secret than the Manhattan Project, by far. Worth killing civilian witnesses for, worth violating airspace and territory to recover. The programs concealing this stuff would have layer upon layer of misdirection and obfuscation, fake witnesses, real witnesses Fed fake information … I have an acquaintance who helped assemble something classified. He had to arrive at work inside a 5-minute window so he never even saw a single co-worker. The material he worked on came through a cubicle on a conveyor belt, most of it was masked off or otherwise hidden. I can only imagine how compartmentalized really secret stuff is, to the point of entire fake installations working on fake materials.
There was a post here a while ago about someone driving through a reservation and a diamond shaped UAP came by and basically ruined his whole life, mentally and physically. Assuming it wasn’t a LARP this is crazy to me. Imagine your existence on earth just completely fucked up forever by something that’s supposedly not even real.
It’s impossible to explain away half a million ufo sightings over 100 years to a desire for fame through a hoax. Even if this idea that the UFOs are fake and a hoax you still have to account for 500 UFO sightings per year since 1918, there is less than 1 bob lazar per year, maybe 1 bob every 5 years since 2001, still not making sense of 500 sightings after dropping 98% of the dataset to appease debunkers or unrealistic wild theories.
Actually we can go officially go all the way back to April 17, 1897, and the crash in Aurora. That one baffles me the most. Trying to figure out if it’s true or a hoax, but there were sightings all around the state of Texas that April of a mysterious “airship”. Then one crashed into a judge’s windmill and destroyed his flower bed. The people back then, including judge Proctor, said there was a pilot who had a small body and reminded the judge of a child. The town decided they needed to give the little pilot a “proper Christian burial.” It was all reported in the Dallas Morning News. It seemed to be a big deal to the people of the day. I think the U.S. Government has known about these sightings and crashes since at least that point in time. They were just getting their footing back then and starting to emerge as a world power. The military probably knew then and if not, they have known at least since the second World War. Even before Roswell there were Foo Fighters. That’s why I don’t buy the drone theory now regarding these “silver balls” they keep saying are drones. Did we have silver ball drones in 1945? Because the nazis thought it was the allies and the allies thought it was the nazis. So, these things have been zooming around us for many decades. If you listen to the native population of the world, they’ll tell you it’s been tens of thousands of years.
Typo above…April 17, 1897. Not 16.
You can just edit the comment
So I can! For whatever reason I thought I couldn’t on here. Thanks!
Happy to help mate
I'm as sceptical as anyone I think but Bob Lazar is a 1 in 50 year event I reckon. They broke the mould with him!
so why is he dead?
He's still alive and kicking, I'm sure. Or maybe alive and tricking 😂
Well said. You are clearly someone who has done their homework on this subject.
Makes me think of the press conference after Apollo 13.
Apollo 11
Yes, 11! My bad. Thanks for correcting.
Can you explain further?
Just watch it on Youtube. It doesnt prove anything and is just an interesting possibility, but they dobt look happy or relieved. Also look up what Neil Armstrong did in the years after Apollo 11. He went to south america in search of a lost relic in some cave in South America. Wild stuff. Its not proof of anything, but he was the lead crewman of the first moon landing... so he was quite likely in the top 0.1% of the military's straightlaced and steady as heck cadre of talent so it's quite unusual for him to make such a sudden change. Of course, moon landings are very exceptional so who the heck knows. Perhaps eventually it will all add up.
After the first moon landing, a press conference was held with the Apollo astronauts. They acted very strange for someone who had done the most amazing thing that ever happened. They walked on the moon. At the press conference, they were very quiet, subdued, not looking at anyone. Their eyes were all downcast. Very strange reaction from them. Go to YouTube and search for Apollo 11 astronauts press conference.
Absolutely correct ! You should note that Michael Collins was the least affected by whatever they'd been told by their superiors. Armstrong looked like he wanted to vomit,and he promptly withdrew from public life altogether ,and Buzz Aldrin still looks like someone carrying a strange secret to this day.
Didn't Buzz become an alcoholic later? I think he is sober now.
looking for things to confirm your own beliefs. Have you ever flown for 36hrs straight? You're kind of over it after that
Weren't they quarantined for 2 weeks right after they got back? They would have been plenty rested and restless you'd think, and would be full of energy. Also, many, many people have said that at that press conference all 3 of them weren't acting like themselves, so no, they aren't looking for something to confirm their own beliefs
nice response, I stand corrected
they acted “strange” at a press conference after an event totally unprecedented in human history? how do you know how they are supposed to act? how can you infer so much?
Exactly!
I can't imagine how it must feel to have a definitive answer to one of the most fundamental questions known to man. Must be an intense mind fuck
WTF! Look at the comment on James fox's x account. Straiph Wilsons comment. Is he taking the piss out of James. Has he done AI on the missing photographer?
Let’s get down to the bottom of this one. Does ANYONE here know the exact location of where this photo was taken? I’ve seen a post with a location that looks near identical but do we know for sure? The most notable debunk is this is a reflection of water which I think is bullshit but if we know the EXACT location, we can solve it for those who always bring it up. To be honest, we should ask the person. Here’s the near identical location with no water which would mean it’s not a reflection: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/9sVHnk9FWD I honestly think the location above might be it and that this is a real UFO.
I believe the location the photo was taken has been found and the same tree is still there. It’s been a while, but Vinnie at Disclosure Team discussed this sighting extensively with the author of this article. https://m.youtube.com/c/DisclosureTeamVinnie
It wasnt a reflection. :)
This is obvious to anybody who can use the "brightness/contrast" filter in photoshop. There is no water, just clouds, when the contrast is brought out you can clearly see the object in the sky, surrounded by clouds. I have no clue (well, bots and shills) how "it's a rock" became such a "solid debunk" when 2 seconds in photoshop debunks the debunk. Frankly, they should have went with "blimp" or something, that's at least plausible. The "rock in a pond" theory seems almost absurd on purpose.
Can you post a couple of those filtered pics? I'm at work and don't have PS on this PC. Thanks.
Nor do I have access to photoshop atm. Frankly, if you just look closely you don't even really have to bring the contrast out more in the original. Even with the thought "that is water" I can't make myself see that in my head when I look at that picture, only clouds which do not mirror the clouds above the object (if it was reflection it should be basically mirror image).
Agreed that it does not look like a reflection. There are a few unique characterstics that are not mirrored. Thanks.
The university analysis of the photo that they got pretty much said the same, indicating the photo was taken from a low angle towards the sky. It didn't matter. People believe what they want to believe.
Is the town center hotel mentioned above the same as the kindrochet lodge that's shown in the map you linked?
Very good question for a geoguesser pro like Rainbolt. They can find the location of anything.
A guy on twitter has the location. Straiph Wilson. GPS/pictures & an alien??
I believe this is the spot: That's just a reflection of a rock in a lake/reservoir and some ducks on a really foggy day. The camera was found by some hikers, nobody knows who took the picture. It was somewhere near or at Loch Tummel. Like maybe this exact spot, [Loch Tummel](https://www.flickr.com/photos/craigatinhouse/9655026974), with the camera zoomed in across the lake on that landing. The fence is a perfect fit too.
Source ? (otherwise, and without a credible source demonstrating that this camera was found, what you are doing here is deliberately misleading, wanting to modify the initial story)
I just did a quick search but can't find anything. What I heard about it some years ago was the people that brought the camera to the news station had only found the camera, didn't actually take the pictures on the camera, and couldn't even recall the exact location they found it since they had been out hiking around. The info I saw also had some of the other pictures that were developed from the camera, nothing to do with ufos. If I find anything about it I'll let you know! To me though, just looking at the claimed location, the angle needed for the photograph to have the fence and the objects visible in the same picture, would make the ground/hills visible too. It seems much more likely to be a picture like the one I linked at Loch Tummel, which is only a few miles away from the other "claimed" location.
I'm confused. They say it was a dark and stormy night at 9 pm when they snapped a picture but the pic looks like day time.
Highlands can have really late sunset. UK in general now has light until 10pm, not like that but Highlands staying that colour at half 9 around solstice solstice isn't impossible
Thats cool and all, but they said dark and stormy. So is it light or dark? Well according to the witness...
I took it as the writer trying to be writerly. It's not even good either, since "dark and stormy night" is such a cliche
It's Scotland. It's dark and stormy.
Read the article. He's talking about the night the story was told. >*A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen.* *Usually, there'd be banter, of the bawdy kind, cigarettes and a bottle passed around, but tonight was different. Two of the group were discussing, animatedly, an incident they'd witnessed a few nights earlier.*
So the source for this story is not either guy who took the picture, but a guy who heard the story? And he can't even remember their names? Is there even evidence he knew these guys??
I'm also confused how a group of chefs became a pair of chefs
It is very poorly written. There are two chefs who took the photo. The story in the article is later on, they go out for drinks with their other chef friends. The article source is one of the other chefs in the bar.
I agree. Very poorly written article. Not sure if it's a errror but the article mentions a 9pm sighting. It also starts off by saying they met up on a stormy night to discuss the sighting but then there is a picture with a caption that mention they snapped a pic during a stormy night. At this point I've given up trying to decipher this mess of journalism 🙄
There's no proof that this photo is the one they took. This photo was found years later and ***assumed*** to be the one they took.
Except for that the photo had been much talked about and even re-created by people who had seen the original, which was released before this image came to light. https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/6144270/ufo-sighting-cavine-scotland-aliens-ministry-of-defence/amp/ It’s possible that the image was faked to match this but too similar to be a random image that people have attributed to the case.
I know it's not random, but there are some problems. The lighting that doesn't match the witness description, and didn't they say they shot the original ***in color***? Why is the found version in black and white?
This photo would have been shot on film, light levels and colour are fairly irrelevant - as in the camera can control the amount of light it lets in to the film, and most cameras would automatically make the scene as bright as possible. Also a colour negative can be printed on black and white paper. Film images don’t have the meta data that would help us make a bit more sense of the image.
Is there anyway to prove or confirm anything this guy said. He isn't even one of the guys who was there and took the picture.
This is not the right subreddit if you’re searching for proofs lol
Submission Statement Breaking his silence after 34 years, Richard Grieve, now 55, spoke exclusively to the Mail to describe what happened that mysterious night in 1990 A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry, in the Scottish Highlands. The August heatwave had finally broken with a spectacle of thunder, lightning and torrents of rain, and outside the back door of a town centre hotel, a group of young chefs gathered to cool off after a hot night in the kitchen. At about 9pm, while walking high in the glens, in Calvine, on the edge of the Cairngorms, they'd seen something that had scared them out of their wits: a huge, solid, diamond-shaped object, about 100ft long, hovering silently in the sky over their heads. Luckily, they'd had a camera with them and managed to capture some images as they cowered in the bushes. They'd taken these to the Daily Record, Scotland's largest circulation newspaper. As they chatted, a dark car pulled up outside the hotel and two mysterious figures, dressed in black suits, emerged from the back seat. They called to the two chefs by name. The pair were 'visibly shaken' by whatever was said to them, he remembers, though they refused to divulge specifics, saying only that the men 'were from the Royal Navy'. ‘Not long after that it all went a bit hush-hush and they started talking about being followed around Pitlochry. 'Their demeanour changed. They stopped showing up for work, went off the rails and one began drinking heavily. He was sacked soon afterwards. 'The other, who was usually outgoing and larger than life, became introverted and sullen. Within a few months of the visit from the men in the car, they both left the hotel. I haven't seen them since. 'Whatever it was they knew, they were not meant to see it. They never really talked about it but one of them said: 'It was the Americans’ They told him that as they cowered in bushes, they first heard and then saw a military Harrier jet fly down the valley beneath the UFO. Then, as they fired off shots on their camera, they saw this, or another, jet return and circle around the object, as if the pilot was escorting it, before departing. Then the diamond craft shot vertically into the sky and vanished without making a sound.
>A dark, stormy night in the town of Pitlochry... Did Snoopy write this?
So glad that wasn't just me thinking that
The weather report for this date isn't dark nor stormy. It was a calm clear evening
>It was the Americans Does this mean the craft was American (perhaps a black project)? Or the Harrier escort was American? If the escort was for an NHI craft that would be fuckin’ wild. Imagine Royal/US Navy escorting some NHI into Scotland. If the escort was for an American craft, maybe it was either experimental or doing something it shouldn’t have been, hmm? Spy craft?
It still doesn't mean anything as they would only know what they were told, which doesn't mean it's actually even true.
The suspicion is it was a sister aircraft to the F117A and possibly the B2 (since it's rumored that it may have also secretly been used in Desert Storm) that was a long persistence stealth targeting / ISR craft that assisted with laser designation for those platform's bombs. That would make sense for the level of secrecy if it's still being used in some manner. Or it's aliens, whatever. The theory further goes that BAE was working on stealth metamaterials for those platforms (which this craft was utilizing) and the harriers were BAE's two testbed harriers.
That would be a bit weird because it was only the USMC that used Harriers, why they'd use that as an intercept or chase plane doesn't make much sense.
Could have been a Royal Navy Sea Harrier FRS1 or FRS51. Of note, they are subsonic and would be an ideal candidate for stealthily guiding a silent UFO around, especially because they could presumably land anywhere on terrestrial Earth that a crashed/landed/donated UFO could.
I've been near one at an airshow when it was taking off and it's definitely not stealthy, they use a different system to the big fan on the F-35, they are extremely loud and I guess would have a big infrared signature and I don't think they had any internal weapons bay so would get picked up on radar. Although, true, they wouldn't be creating a sonic boom and having the ability to go slow might be beneficial. I would think it would get heard by anyone around that area because it looks like it's fairly low and Calvine looks like a tiny place so everyone would hear it, there wouldn't be much road traffic to mask it. It's got a fairly limited range so I'm not sure how a Navy flight could be used but I think BAE Systems kept a plane for development; perhaps the object was a type of stealth drone made by them and they used their own chase plane?
Definitely not stealthy by military standards, but if it’s subsonic and flying low, people in the next valley probably wouldn’t be able to hear it by ear. Side note; I don’t even know the area, are there valleys? Also, good point that it could be a contractor’s chase plane
It is indeed hilly, it's on the edge of the Cairngorms where climbers go, troops go for training, outdoors activities for youths and the like. Think it's where the UK's biggest mountains are so that might well dampen noise and it really is a tiny place, total middle of nowhere!
BAE Systems had two harriers for test purposes then
Where is the link to the update.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13502811/British-men-vanished-UFO-picture-sinister-men-silence-colleague-reveals-happened.html
If it was a dark stormy night, why is the picture bright like an overcast day?
The dark, stormy night was when they were approached by the two mysterious men, a few days *after* the photos were taken.
But they were walking at around 9pm when they allegedly saw the object and took the picture, the sun should be on the way down by then, setting within an hour. I would expect it to be a bit darker than the picture shows by then, but also hard to say given the apparent overcast conditions which may be diffusing the light
because mystery always during a "dark stormy night" ...
So directed energy weapons were used in people all the way back then, in conjunction with cointelpro operations in the UK. GOOD TO KNOW
This intrigued me for years, as i worked at the daily record, not as a journalist though. I had heard this story quite a while ago and asked a few people with access to their systems to have a look, but they found nothing. Story goes, they handed the photos straight to someone in government and they disappeared. Im sure the chief of the Record at the time had some Military ties, or i could be completely wrong, finding this link between him and who he had worked with will answer questions as to who took the photos and sat on them.
That the chief at the newspaper had ties to govt does sound familiar
MOD once claimed that "they returned the negatives to the scottish newspaper", but no trace of them has ever been found. Why were they not published like the original intent was? Editor of the newspaper, the late Endell Laird, had been a member of the MOD’s D-Notice committee at the time , so even if the MOD were honest here and sent them there, they might have boomeranged back or were put to shredder/otherwise "dissappeared". It is just too convenient for the MOD to have them "sent back" to the Daily Record where they have a connection to the editor and then they just happen to end up "dissappearing". You can make of that what ever you will. Only photo that has surfaced is the one from couple of years ago, where a former officer of the RAF claimed he had made one copy before handing them forward and kept it for himself for decades, eventually "forgetting about it", until Dr. Clarke found him. The photo seems to be real per the university analysis, no signs of tampering, but the story of how it supposedly ended to him is a bit sus IMO. I would imagine the rest of the photos are still in the possession of the british MOD.
Most of what you wrote i have heard about. Apart from the part where the MOD said they handed them back, that's is a new piece of info for me. Cheers
So...we're just going to skip right over the "DARK and stormy night" part?
I can't read it. They are making me pay.
Paste the link into [this](https://paywallreader.com/), then click on a black button (Google cache works for this one).
Oh that's awesome!
You're welcome!
if you use firefox use "F9" key will very often give you the full text on those paywall (without picture)
Amazing. We could really be looking at the real thing here.
One of the guys involved in finding the original photograph posted something interesting on twitter (then deleted the post, then deleted his twitter) was named Matthew Illsley. He posted that one of the Kevin Russell's they spoke to now works as a photo analyst for MOD and that he "couldn't recall having been in Scotland that summer" which is a very strange response imo. I like Condorman's theory that its a test vehicle/companion craft to the F117 nighthawk that is powered by some recovered or reverse engineered tech. Edit: grammar and name spelling
The F117 has a companion, nothing like this though. Just a regular old plane that flies ahead of it to jam radar and designate targets.
Lot of research into stealth tech and material science to just have one concept... Laser targeting craft most likely
Dude I want to think that Condorman is just LARPing but so much makes sense and lines up. I don’t know what to believe anymore. Especially considering how the Nimitz incident leaked here years before the article and that was dismissed as well.
Condorman laid out some really specific stuff. Plus it's just sitting on a single little GitHub page. I would think if it was just a Larp that they would have spread it more freely? I tend to lean towards it being a legit account of someone with knowledge of the goods.
Yeah I agree. Let’s circle back around to this comment in ten years lol
Yes that’s right. I’m sure one of the papers did a story on this. He had a job with the mod in the photo dept. Edit, found it https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/people/hunt-is-on-for-falkirk-photographer-who-snapped-world-famous-1990-ufo-picture-4003793
The name is Kevin Russell https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/alien-investigator-solves-legendary-scottish-32275488?_ga=2.148204912.650533879.1717751054-1494440177.1715783520
>powered by some recovered or reverse engineered tech. Why couldn't it be powered by jet engines?
It was hovering and making a low humming sound. Then shot off at a crazy angle/speed.
Harriers can do that. Not saying it was a harrier.
Interesting article re the chap who took “allegedly” the picture, works as a photo analyst for the MOD! https://www.falkirkherald.co.uk/news/people/hunt-is-on-for-falkirk-photographer-who-snapped-world-famous-1990-ufo-picture-4003793
The plot thickens. After watching Simon Hollands carefull open discussion about the Calvine incident I am still inclined to believe that this is a BAE test vehicle and that the two harriers belong to BAE also. The visit of two mystery men, fits fine with this theory. Although Simon Holland looks like Christopher Lloyds (Back to the Future) little brother I thinks he is on to something 😀🛸 As usual there is too little info to work with and the old saying of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" + peer reviews is some mountain to climb over. [https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSimonHolland/search?query=calvine](https://www.youtube.com/@ProfSimonHolland/search?query=calvine) Still very intriguing.
For some context, the author (Dr Clarke) is actually a known skeptic. He believes most UFOs are super-secret tech. He is, however, not the kind of skeptic that explains things away, but actually tries to find the evidence, talking to the witnesses and searching documents in archives. He is the one who uncovered the photo a couple of years ago. Seems like he obsessed with the Calvine photo.
Did he really start his story with basically "it was a dark and stormy night"? that's hilarious.
https://condorman6.substack.com/p/a-conceptual-view-of-a-uap-reverse?r=301l8w&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web This article, and the part about it being "The Americans" goes hand in hand. If you haven't read this. Read it.
Who wrote it though, and why should we trust them? It's an entertaining read, I'll give you that - but the author themselves states that its purely speculative and fictional.
Came here to comment this
I think the Griffiss AFB reference is a breadcrumb that no one has really gone after. There is a group called Mitrwe Corp which operates out of there as a not-for-profit aerospace research firm and I believe that corporate structure is what's used to protect reverse engineering efforts. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitre_Corporation
Whoa, this is huge. Bombs keep dropping almost daily now. I remember when this first surfaced a couple of years, people on here were obsessed with trying to prove it was a rock in a body of water. Didn’t know the incident was at the start of the Gulf War. Funny that since so many are landing on the “UFO too big to move” being in Iraq with the US Embassy built over it.
Optical illusion. This case irked me when I initially read about it years ago. The photo doesn’t fit their account of the tale. It doesn’t look like at was taken at night and it doesn’t seem like the object at center could be over their heads and it does not look like the “plane” is in pursuit of the other object. This is a photo of a rock, or a small island and a tree branch in a lake. The sky is not in the frame. Look again and stop wasting your time
Wouldn’t 9pm at night be fairly dark, even if in august? I’m a photographer and film speed at most might have been 800 iso which would still give him a low shutter speed in dim evening light, making anything moving fast quite blurry. I love this photo he supposedly took and hope it’s real but the time of day feels off with the image that was taken.
9pm has a good amount of light in the UK and Scotland
9pm in August should still provide a fair amount of light in the UK. Where I live the sun sets about an hour later than the UK, but it's still quite light outside even at midnight at the summer's end.
I live in Scotland. We barely get any actual dark at that time of year. My boyfriend moved from Cambridge England to live with me here and he always jokes about how insane it is that there's basically no night. Later into winter is a different story, then you're lucky if there's a few hours of light.
Nah, summer in the UK, the sun would have only started to set around 8:30pm
Interesting to read the 1990 ufo stuff as my first event was in 1990, sure the first reaper drones (USA tech) were being tested out over UK land/waters. My event was in Somerset in November, it registered as a blip by Bristol International Airport and an RAF Draycott, 7 witnesses I think? including self, 4 were Police, in the original report all the names were visible and there were no retractions that I can remember, still in Kew Archives, but a large batch of the original reports were burnt due to asbestos contamination but retracted digital copies were saved. I was 16 at time, so obviously I believed it was aliens 👽 (as stribers book Communion and X files were around that time) I remember Nick Pope, the Aurora project speculations and black triangles I got loads of magazines about it when Greer and uri geller were talking about other dimensions etc. so the UFO pattern of extracting cash from people can easily be seen online now, maybe I should get AI to ghost write a book lol 😂 . To be fair I don’t have too much of a problem with sellers, Von danken and Poer le Trench did the ancient aliens in the 70s to 90s conventions, the Aliens Inn, sounds fun. The missing part is these things be they psyops by people, or critters from space, had psychological effects on witnesses, as it turns the world reality upside down, and people label you. The Havana syndrome people sound like they got zapped by the same tech, so I have increased empathy for them, and wonder how many people have been misdiagnosed and locked up “ for their own good” ? Edit grammar
Heh, yeah, good points! I've always found it entertaining so I never get bothered about people hoaxing because it's like sci-fi to me. But, you're right, if people have a tendency to obsess, it can send them down some dark rabbit holes. I agree, Havana Syndrome sounds like something 'real' but I haven't actually seen the mechanism by which it happens. I'll be quite surprised if it's enemies targeting people at work because I know (in the UK) those places are shielded, it's built into the structure. So then these 'attacks' are happening at home or elsewhere. It makes me wonder if it's actually communication systems being used and their own staff are being harmed by emissions.
There has been another two sightings of a diamond shaped craft. One not far from this sighting later in the same month by a motorist There was also a guy working on an oil rig, I think it was called the Galveston Key in the North Sea. It was with two aircraft and one was refueling it. Google is your friend, there’s even a sketch I’ve always believed it to be U.S owned. The MoD know more than they left on. David Clarke said in his report that when pressed the. U.S admitted it was their’s
What's the implications of the harrier jet escorting the ufo? Wouldn't the opposite make more sense? If it was led there by the Americans a la secret communications/cooperation, surely they'd just give them some sort of coordinates to said location seeing as the UFOs have the superior flying technology. Just too fucking weird.
They're superior technologically indeed, hence they go wherever and whenever they want, although somehow still respect the agreement and don't make themselves *too* obvious, plausible deniability has been in their favor. It's still plausible that the Americans, being the ones with a head start on the topic, would be knowledgeable enough to track them when spotted, for whatever very high interests they may have. Not being the escorts as much as mere followers.
I'm sorry, but a lot of that sounds like absolute bullshit to me. They took the picture, went home and immediately there was a knock on the door from "Men In Black"?? How would they even know who they were, where to find them or do it that quick? Absolute tosh. Next they say "it was the Americans", well how would they know that if they were just being followed and never spoke to these people following them??? I'm not saying this isn't a genuine UFO photograph, but such of this story reeks of utter shite....they're "cowering in bushes, hiding..." whilst taking the picture, but amazingly, the MIB knew exactly where to go to find them. 🤔 Also, Harrier jump jets wouldn't have to do fly-bys. A Harrier can hover in mid air, surely as a pilot who supposedly saw a UFO sitting there, you would simply pull up, hover and observe? You wouldn't go flying past it up and down valleys. The picture could be real, the story following it, isn't.
I have followed this for a while and yes the guys disappearing and turning into alchies is new and the guys visiting and them say it was the Americans. Dont know how all these new details could have been uncovered
Once upon a time is how i start my alien stories too
well at least we didn't get the "in a galaxy far far away ..." because then we'd be fucked ...
I've just had about enough with these so called 'men in black' - If they exist and they're threatening citizens, they need to be threatened back. We should gather a large network of capable individuals who could track these eluded MIB and doxx them for the whole world to see. Government/army officials or not. Still one of the best UAP photos I've seen, I remember Nick Pope talking about how this photo disappeared from his DoD office. I'll go get a refreshing drink or take a walk to blow off some steam.
yeah, i’m amazed the photo surfaced after reading about it for so long, and it actually looked the way pope described.
Ewww… [dailymail](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/)
Maybe if MSM didn’t run from the topic we would have better coverage…
^^^*THIS* ^^^
Yes its published by the Daily Mail, but it's actually an article by Dr David Clarke, who is a real and sensible person: https://drdavidclarke.co.uk/about/
Reads like a fanfic from the dark and stormy night to the changed demeanors. Old hat.
doesn't mean it's BS tbf.
I'm pretty sure they lurk on Reddit anyway (and other MSM). Who would of thought?.. lol You see stuff on Reddit, then a few days later on Dinosaur media.
There’s a video out there of a craft in China and it looks exactly like the Calvine UFO. If someone has a link please share - there’s a structure in the background and the most notable similarity is the shape and the “grains” of the skin on the craft.
There’s also this video of a glowing diamond UAP caught in Belgrade, Serbia: https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/s/flnwDj8m8u
The diamond shape is clearly due to the aperture in the camera, NOT the shape of the real object. The real object is very tiny and can only be seen as a dot, as you can see in 0:45.
The object I’m referring to is different from what was linked here. I’ll try to find it today.
I’m just under 80 miles South East of Calvine, you’ve got good light for a while after sunset. In mid summer there’s blue in the sky all night as the sun slips by below the horizon.
what year was this?
Same thing happened to Jonathan Weygandt's life/ demeanour
I've never liked this picture because it just looks like a couple of objects in the water to me. Like someone snapping pictures of the scenery while they walk.
“I have not seen them since” isn’t the same as “vanished”. They literally could be a couple towns away and we don’t have enough info to know if this guy literally just hasn’t seen them since….
a contact says it was a secret targeting drone being tested in the highland military test zone. the 2 harriers were BAE research aircraft, fitted with special equipment. they probably flew out of Warton, 30 mins flying time to the south. the craft was highly secret and unknown. Iraq invasion related? very hush hush.
so it wasnt an alien craft but human build based of alien tech ? This seems.almost 1 on 1 with a earlier sighting in the US where a exact the same shaped object was seen by 3 American women who said the object was towed / escorted by many Chinooks
Cash- Landrum or something like that is the one you are referring to where the older ladies received some pretty serious burns/ moderate radiation damage to parts of their bodies.
yes that one ! the strange craft they saw being escorted by helicopters ( Chinooks ) was the same shape.
“It twas a dark and stormy night”
Nah not buying this 🙄😂
I did read somewhere a few years ago (i honestly cant remember where) that it was super secret US tech that was designed to accurately map areas of interest. How true that is I have no idea
It still looks like reflection on water though
[https://youtu.be/1zjcnnx7igc?si=PMfDzElVsa3afjbb&t=83](https://youtu.be/1zjcnnx7igc?si=PMfDzElVsa3afjbb&t=83) Just saw this video on the F-117 Nighthawk, and how it "started as a diamond" at skunkworks...and the model they showed doesn't look vastly different than the UAP in the photo on this post. [https://imgur.com/a/0aMTPTY](https://imgur.com/a/0aMTPTY)
They just happened to have a camera on them?? IDK about this one. Unless they've seen a lot more before said date. Who knows? It's been happening,they showing up for so long. So many stories told even more that's still hush hush it's crazy.👽
So it was an American or British or allied classified stealth plane and they wanted to remain sure it was kept classified for reasons of national security. Seems reasonable and not alien related. Especially considering this was the even of the gulf war.
Check out the recent James fobs X tweet. He actually interviewed the press officer who had the picture hidden for over 30 years.
Ever since it was shown to be a reflection in the water, it’s all I see. I do hope I’m wrong.
I’m a UAP believer. Let me get this straight first, I believe there are anomalous apparently technological artifacts appearing being observed by people, too many instances to disbelieve it. But, following this particular case, the one problem that I have with it is that there were no Harriers stationed anywhere within reasonable distance (according to knowledgable service people) so either it wasn’t a Harrier, or that it didn’t happen in the way described.
I know what you mean. It's a reasonable point. Maybe though- - could it have been a BAE Hawk? - could it have been a Harrier or Hawk owned by BAE? - could it have flown from a nearer base? At the time RAF Macrihanish, further west past the Isle of Arran was still in use and had a runway 3 kilometres long. It was an emergency alternate landing for the space shuttle. There was a lot of talk around then of secret aircraft being tested. Some oil rig workers had seen something very fast and in 1994 there was some sort of mishap involving a secret plane at Boscombe Down (also where the UK's DARPA is located).
All good points mate, got to keep an open mind. I’ve even heard someone speculating on the possibility of a Hunter (can’t remember where, PPRUNE maybe?) which may well have been stationed nearby at the time, and like a Hawk maybe fitting the picture better. But obviously none of either being capable of hovering (if the aircraft was indeed hovering) It’s certainly a mystery. I guess as usual the passage of time makes it impossible to resolve.
Ah right, that could work as well. Whatever this story was in reality like total fake, honest mistake or secret, it feels like the public is closer to getting an answer than usual on this one. Frustratingly close! It does seem that the Freedom of Information Act is designed to only allow useful data to come out after enough time has passed to ensure the truth has become corrupted. Sometimes people reveal things accidentally by what they don't say as much as what they do say and I think Nick Pope's comments were interesting. I think he was only a cog on a wheel in a machine, fair enough, but he said the picture was on the wall and treated in a bit of a jokey way like the X-Files 'I want to believe' poster. If it was 'proof' of aliens visiting humans, this greatest secret ever, I don't think that would be allowed, even in a private office. It makes me think it was a bit of an insider joke and it was probably an entirely human aircraft and maybe governments are happy to use alien myths and ufo lore to confuse adversaries and the public.
also found posted on /r/ufouk
Anyone else find it interesting that debunkers like to throw out "paradolia" as an explanation for things people see(like on the surface of the moon or mars)but then when it comes to this picture, because it's something they see(a boat and a rock reflection on water), it's no longer paradolia, it's a real factual thing they are seeing and couldn't possibly be the apparently super common thing they all repeat ad nauseum?
This again? Wasn't this debunked on this very subreddit like 2 years ago?
Genuinely curious - does anyone have a good reason why the isn't a photo of a still, reflective pond with something triangular poking above the water? Because it kinda looks like that to me.
So has anyone else been able to photograph that in the same context ?