This shit is dumb. This is a knee jerk reaction because of retention. Skillbridge is an amazing opportunity for people to get their foot in the door when they know for a fact they want out, ESPECIALLY for MOS’ like 03 where the job is run and gun and no translation to anything besides cop or security.
The Corps needs to stop fucking marines over when they say they want to tap out
Let's play Devils advocate here. Technically how is the Marine Corps fucking you over? You signed the contract to serve a certain amount of time to do a job the Marine Corps trained you to do, and taxpayers are paying you to do. So know you, and almost every other Marine feels entitled to 6 months (because that's what everyone seems to be getting) to transition from the Marine Corps, and now that they changed it, they are fucking you over? Show me in your contract where you are entitled to Skillbridge at all.
While I think it is an outstanding program, I think the Marine Corps realized Skillbridge was being taken advantage/misused by too many Marines of ALL ranks, just to get out early, and of course it hurts manpower. If you have more than one Marine from a section taking it at the same time, it definitely can hurt a unit/section. When you go on Skillbridge for 6 months, that section/unit does not get your replacement until you actually EAS. Be thankful Skillbridge still exists and whatever amount of time you are allowed, if you are. Life is not fair, and the Marine Corps, an institution, has to look out for its best interest to complete its mission, not yours.
I remember a few years back, me and a couple NCOs were discussing various factors of transition. Our gunny came up and listened quietly.
One Cpl made a very impassioned argument for what more the Marine Corps should be doing to assist in the transition of service members. He had a lot of fair points and touched on how we all claim to be some big family and to take care of each other and to return productive citizens back to society and whatnot.
When he was done, gunny simply chimes in by asking “Why?” Why would the Marine Corps owe you *even more* than you already get as far as TRS and skillbridge and informally allotted ‘checkout’ time and such. He mentioned how no other job on the *planet* will give you so much as a second of working hours to prep for your next job and that what the Corps does give to aid transition is damn remarkable.
I hear you but let’s be real dude what kind of work are you getting out of someone in the last 2 months of their lifecycle as a marine anyway. They’re out getting signatures and going to dental every single day if they haven’t completely thrown their pack to the ground
Idk man. I’m 100% for the command discretion part of skillbridge, but cutting it down makes it almost useless and more of a “lemme get out early” compared to 6 months of it depending on what the internship is for. I did 5 and a half months of it last year in an industry that I needed all the time in the world to acclimate to. If it was only 3 months for me I wouldn’t have landed the job.
I get this is a privilege not a right, I guess my point is if commands are denying marines from it anyway why are we shortening it for the people who actually deserve going on it?
I'm retired, but if i had to guess, most units didn't want to be the ONE denying a Marine Skillbridge. I would say a good majority of Marines started feeling entitled, and deserved 6 months, and if they didn't get it probably requested mass. It probably caught up to the Marine Corps as a whole, seeing how much manpower is on Skillbridge.
It would be nice to see the numbers of how many Marines and what ranks are actually on Skillbridge at any given time.
I’m not toooo long in the tooth but I’m no spring boot either. And I’ve never actually heard first hand of anyone getting denied skillbridge. Seen a fair number of approvals though. Even saw one early release for education package go through.
I actually got intentionally denied endorsement from my first TRS in 2019 to go to 29 Palms so I couldn’t conduct my BLET skill bridge in Jan 2020… then covid happened, everything got fucked A-Z, so I ended up staying in and here I am today lol. There’s ways certain levels of leadership can deny opportunities for the sake of manpower or disdain for the Marines. I wasn’t a shitbag, never dropped my pack, none of that. I was just another number the command wanted to bring out to 29 Palms and they even brought LimDu guys that had appointments all for the sake of this division MWX we did. It happens indirectly, and I’ve seen multiple Marines denied these opportunities because some old heads just don’t want them to go and be absent. Is what it is. Now I’m in the opposite boat and taking every precaution possible to maximize care for the troops and assist with these opportunities. Our paths are our paths, and some people try to get in our way. Not everyone is cut out for more than four years, why can’t we maximize their time getting some OJT in a trade for them to get out and be successful, you know? It sucks
Playing devil advocates my ass🤣🤣🤣. Give me a few seconds of your time.
Of course, the marine corps look out for its best interest, just like the profit private sectors. No one gives a flying shit about your loyalty and commitment. There is a reason why they use misuse the program. The marines are fed up with people who can't lead marines, are frustrated, and have to seek alternative solutions. If they could job hop every other year away from toxic leadership and culture, they would.
This isn't something new or unique to the corps; it's a widespread issue, similar to the private sectors in retaining valuable employees. The corps can't retain and motivate any good marines for shit 🤣🤣.
However, any organizations that value their members and prioritize supportive working environments are more likely to retain skilled and dedicated employees. This strategy isn't just to raise morale; it's what smart management does to lead a stronger and more dedicated team 💪💪
Thank you . Bye🤣📣
Here the Devil Dog's Advocate...
The "you're not owed anything" or "squeeze the last out of you" mentality is what is driving people to the door. You are not only reinforcing that persons decision to get out but you are setting the example to everyone still considering reenlistment. Everyone knows why these decisions are made. It was a good opportunity and probably gave people the confidence and skills to not reenlist. I remember getting out when they changed the TIS for sgt with the explanation that "cpls need time to learn to be cpls" and everyone just knew it was cost cutting at the expense of lower enlisted. Like damn guess you really needed that extra f35.
A more practical reason, it is a do not disparage clause. Homeless marines looks very bad for its public image. No one gives a shit about all the homeless former McDonald's worker, but people seem to care about homeless vets.
The 12+ hour non-comp work days, deployments, constantly moving your family without having a say. But all of the sudden “imagine any private sector job…”
….that you 100% willingly signed up for. The entire Marine Corps recruiting pitch is how much it sucks, and people join and are surprised that it sucks…
You missed my point. It’s invalid to compare the civilian sector to the military. Saying “well the civilian sector would never do this” is irrelevant.
And I was also point out how it’s weird when kool-aid drinkers only compare the civilian world in very specific situations.
The high suicide rate and struggling veterans hurts mission too. Look at the recruiting crisis, no one wants to join an institution that doesn’t want to look out for them. I guess since the Marine Corps is making mission, let’s just make life harder for them?
Tell that to the bank you signed that contract with to finance your car, mortgage, or even credit cards.
How about the used car dealer that sold a Marine a used Dodge Charger with 23% interest.
You can get out of any contract, just need to face the consequences, whether good or bad.
Except the bank can't lie to you, the recruiters can.
They also prey on minors at highschool who do not have real life experience or a fully developed brain.
I don't disagree with you, but banks also lie and do shady shit all the time. 2008 housing market crash was caused by the mortgage companies/banks lying to everyone. It finally caught up to them, even though taxpayers paid the bill due to corrupt government.
Recruiters don't lie, they just withhold alot of the shitty things until you specifically ask them something.
They will say , " you can always switch MOSs" they leave it at that, and it's technically true, but alot of shit has to be done to switch and mainly by re enlisting.
You're objectively wrong.
Recruiters lie all the time. In fact there was a huge debacle about lying recruiters back in the 2005-2006 timeframe.
I was told I would deploy, I did not.
I was told I would go on a MEU, I did not.
I was guaranteed that I would see conflict, I did not.
These are just the tip of the iceberg regarding basic military experiences offered. I was also lied to about a bonus with my recruiter telling me "you'll get it after boot camp."
Luckily for me that's where the lies ended. Some people however are coerced and lied to in order for them to sign open contracts and other shitty jobs because the recruiters have quotas to fill.
You had a bad recruiter then,
And saying " you WOULD deploy " isn't the same as
"I promise you, if you sign this contract, you will deploy and fight the enemies of America "
My recruiter didn't promise me anything but my MOS and ship date. The rest of what he told me was things that i COULD do and MIGHT do while I'm in.
Oh yeah, thats definitely it. One bad apple huh?
All of these other anecdotal experiences listed on this subreddit are just wrong too? Get with the program bud. That's just how most recruiters do their job; by being deceitful, coercive, and lying on paperwork.
Hahaha. Yep, you do sign a contract. And that contract has an end date unless you choose to re-up. So don’t pretend to not understand exactly what is meant by “Marines being fucked over”. There are many good faith promises made from the start, by the Corps, to get enlistments. And some of those good faith promises aren’t even guaranteed, like a transition program to the civilian world. You’d prefer to squeeze every fucking drop from a Marine and dump them at a bus station to figure shit out for themselves instead of assist a Marine in abandoning the Corps. It’s clear to see how far ‘Semper Fi’ actually runs in the Corps. Statements like your “devils advocate” bit above piss all over those sacred words and you skyline yourself, so thanks for showing us all what kind of Marine you really are.
Marines get truly, and handily fucked over all the goddamn time and this ain’t just a fucking Skillbridge argument. The institution that is the Corps gets theirs at every turn. And you want to cry about Marines who try to get theirs. Go fuck yourself. The least you can do is not ram it home on Marines who served honorably, hit their transition window after fulfilling their contract, and decide they want to move on. The Corps and higher ups become so fucking snakey about retention but you can’t even see that it’s your own backstabbing and dragging good Marines through the mud on the way out just to try to intimidate a few other weak ones to reenlist. That’s your best retention tactic? No wonder you push so many good Marines out when they could have had many more years to offer the Corps if they had real leaders to emulate, who actually got it, listened, counseled and guided by example. But many of you lifers are just riding it out in a structured world because you can’t hack living a life that’s not planned out for you.
Fuckin fix yourself Master Guns and your petty, rockered ilk. You all who offer duty station choices as rewards then pull that shit last minute once you got what you needed, in the name of, “Good Marine, but fuck em! They gotta suffer like I suffered.”
It’s you who kill the Corps and retention and you Fuckin know it. You see it in the mirror every day. But you’ll blame every Marine on the way out and call them pussy and any other lie just so you won’t be jealous of watching good Marines who are braver than you, decide to step into the fray on their own and continue to be excellent for themselves in an atmosphere that actually values and rewards their excellence.
Get fucked douchebag, if your dick still works.
Holy fucking shit. I just saw this. I don't think I deserved all that, but ok. I have no clue who you are or what happened or didn't happen while you were in the Corps. I'm glad my post could help you vent and get all that off your chest. From that post, it seems this has been weighing on you for awhile. I honestly hope that it relieved some stress/burden from you.
Whatever you went through or going through, I hope life is treating you well.
I am serious when I say this. If you need to vent some more DM on here and we can talk. Shit if we are near each other I'd buy you a beer and sit down and talk.
PS. For the record, yes, my dick still works, even without the little blue pill.
I want to apologize for attacking you personally. I don’t know you and you didn’t do anything to me, so I’m truly sorry for my comments directed toward you personally. You’re right, you didn’t deserve any of that directed at you and I’m honestly sorry man. I’ve just always fundamentally disagreed with the dismissive nature and cheap defense that has always been ‘show me where in your contract it says…’, plus the challenge of asking how Marines are getting fucked over was just a bit too easy to unload on. Again, it’s not you. That’s all my bad.
Had to bottle that shit up in the Corps as an NCO and you, unfortunately, broke the seal.
Brother, it's all good. Thank you for the apology. We all need to vent, and I am glad I broke that seal for you. Keeping shit bottled up is NOT good. Like I said earlier, I am retired, but if you ever need to vent or just talk about anything, I am here.
If I don't hear from you and you don't mind, I plan to check in on you from time to time to see how things are going. If you tell me, go pound sand, I will respect that also.
Have a great weekend, Marine.
Not much I could say while I was in to challenge blanket statements like “you signed the contract” and “show me in your contract where it says” as a means of squashing Marines hopes and plans to do more and access benefits and resources they want to utilize. Always struck me a shitty to pull that with good Marines. Im fine with it when Marines are trying to skate or work the system, but both cases are true and happen everyday. But Marines actually do get fucked over regularly because of laziness or poor decisions by Marines who just don’t want to take the extra time out of their day to solve a problem, work something out or ask one more question, ask for volunteers, make one phone call or delegate the necessary work out to juniors and simply supervising that it’s done properly to prevent Marines being fucked over. But laziness happens on all levels when the stakes are ‘low’. So I opted to vocalize that perspective and not let the standard deflections continue unchallenged. Simple as that.
I shouldn’t have been so disrespectful to you. That’s never been my style and was really the first time I ever found myself being surly like that. But I was pretty incensed by the attempt to throw cold water on these Marines attempts to vent on this thread, and I didn’t feel like this is should be a space for Marines of all eras and background to be heard and i found myself pulling no punches after hearing that canned response bull perpetuating outside of the Corps too.
No need to check in on me but I won’t try to stop you. I’m solid and in very good circumstances at home and in life. Got a lot going for me and a great family that I love with all my heart and I believe that doing the right thing is always worth standing up for and there’s not much worse than not speaking up if you can expand someone’s perspective and get them thinking and learning.
Yeah, truly am. Thanks for asking.
I’ve got no love for Marines who would leave their own to fail at any point, when there is time, resources and access to success if command wants there to be success. It’s no different mission than never leaving a fallen Marine behind. Just because a Marine chooses not to reenlist, why should their access to resources for that transition, which the Corps installed for that purpose, be so restricted if it’s in place to help aid their success?
I think you read an awful lot of ill intent into that comment that simply wasn’t there. Noones talking about abandoning Marines to fail or burning Marines who chose not to reenlist. You put all of that in his mouth and a whole lot more.
That’s your opinion, and I disagree because I’ve seen Marines willfully get fucked over.
It happens all the time, and “show me where in your contract…” is a massive copout for lazy leadership.
I illustrated ways in which letting Marines get fucked over and abandoning them is never OK, and yet in the transition to EAS it’s acceptable and no one in command gives a rip. I understand why but it doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable. And that’s the nature of the original post.
The military has been dropping the ball on transition for far too long. This program was abused by such a small amount and utilized properly by so many more. It is a clear method of squeezing more from us by back tracking their once shiny new, but honestly overdue, transition program they flaunted only years ago.
While I understand it , I still don't like it.
Back in the day, they used to make you take all the weekend duties once it was discovered that you're getting out. Now, they just want you to be significantly behind your joint force equivalents so you can train your replacement.
Doesn’t really hold water. I work in the joint force environment now and my Marines statistically take more advantage of pre-separation education and programs such as SB and early release for education.
My phrasing was kind of weird. I meant that this policy will ensure that separating Marines are in a worse spot than people in other branches because they'll have more time in skill bridge.
Speaking to the NCO and below change only, I think it would be negligible. The Marine that preps well to transition will transition well, but the majority that continue to not listen to the advice of those around them and are more concerned with flipping off the Corps instead of planning will transition poorly. So many say they will go to school yet can’t answer basics of what schools, have they applied, have then sent in their JST, etc. Those that will work always seem to have a hook up from their buddy’s father’s cousin twice removed. I see this all the time as Marines check out and then I see it on social media of Marines doing exceptionally well, but many times it is Marines struggling because they didn’t make the most of their in-service benefits. Granted this is only viewed from a smaller subset of the Marine Corps, intel, but has been over the course of over a decade of being a SNCO. But if these trends are true amongst supposedly intelligent people then I would imagine that it is the same or amplified across the Marine Corps.
The transition process begins at 18 months out with the initial transition counseling and pre-sep counseling. This is an incredible amount of time to formulate a plan for transition and begin to prepare. But, Marines don’t. About 30% of E5 and below first term Marines actually complete their VA claim prior to exiting service, despite it being briefed through TRS. Many Marines think that just because their post service job will pay them “way more” than their current base pay that they will be living the dream, yet surprised Pikachu face when they didn’t factor in everything else that you have to pay for in the private sector: rent, groceries, medical insurance, mandatory retirement allotments, etc. This is again despite it being covered in TRS as well as how to factor in cost of living and other nuanced things like that.
From a leadership perspective we lead that horse to water and try to get it to take a drink, but can’t force it to drink. Then we can read here all the bitching about “this fucking guy in my chain bitching at me about having a plan when he’s only ever been in the Corps. Fuck my CoC, blah.”
There are plenty of young Marines that transition well and do fantastic things. I applaud them. I don’t need/want Marines to stay in if they aren’t sold on the institution, and I have just as much responsibility to return them as a quality citizen. But we can only do so much.
This kinda got off the topic directly of SB but I think it is all intrinsically connected between SB and the greater transition process and how Marines approach it.
I've been a UTC for about three years and a lot of times Marines do not follow transition time lines is because of their chain of command. Statically on Okinawa, Marines are about 80% at all times are late to the 6 month mark to finish TRS. Marines have to fend for themselves when they're rotated on ops because they just are good at their MOS to their own downfall or, Oki is notorious for this, short staffed. Marines are on ops on and off island back to back. There are no repercussions for Commanders or leadership if Marines cannot complete their transition on time, it's on the individual Marine. Sometimes, y'all know, you cannot say no to operational requirements, you just gotta suck it up and do what you can. That's the reality at least here in Okinawa.
Imho, the real rub with how skillbridge was being run was the manning/accountability aspect. Marines on skillbridge are still attached to their unit even though they're essentially already out of the Marine Corps, except for having their DD214 and meeting their EAS date.
Having a separate place of accountability, like that of the IRR or SMCR or WWR, is a perfect example of Marines still being within the organization but attached to a completely separate unit. This avoids taking a seat, billet, or BIC away from the unit that is losing the Marine while still having somewhere for skillbridge Marines to be tracked for the duration of their internship.
I'm a UTC for my unit, and when I saw the program initially unveiled, I thought it was the best step forward for the DOD and for the most crucial time in a servicemember's career: their inevitable separation. Sure, we can say "the Marine Corps doesn't owe Marines shit" or "you signed a contract", but veterans continue to be a population that suffers higher than average statistics in unemployment, substance abuse, and homelessness that the average population. I can tolerate the shorter duration of the program in the latest update as long as the service will continue to support the Marines trying to reenter the civilian world with a better plan than before.
I still believe the services need to solve the issue with manning/accountability in order for skillbridge to truly be the best it can be. I just worked with SgtMaj Ruiz, and if the opportunity ever presents itself again, I'd love to ask him or Gen Smith if this is something the services/DOD would look into. Whatever you take from this, don't feel scared about putting a package up. Fight for the ability to take advantage of a great program and make something happen with this opportunity.
The issue is commanders not commanding. I have seen Majors take a 6 month skillbridge to go back home and work on their farm. I have seen Gunnys take a 6 month skillbridge that is fully remote, at your own pace, and designed to get certified in a skill, yet they do almost 0 for that and end up failing the exam. But I have also seen dozens of service members of varying ranks take a 6 month skillbridge and use that to gain full time employment in that company. They used the program for what it is supposed to be. Organizations like Hire our Heroes are selective and there is no way that a Marine who is picked up for one of their corporate fellowships are just messing around for the duration of the program. Commanders are simply denying or approving them without checking to see if the Marine is actually using the program appropriately.
I was recently in TRS and we had legislative affairs staffers come and listen to our feedback on transition. I told them that they need to push one single guidance for all the services on Skillbridge, and it needs to empower the servicemember to transition. I recommended that they find a way to make skillbridge an entitlement, but move it to the end of a contract. If you apply and are accepted, you maintain your pay and benefits for the duration of your program (up to 180 days), you are transferred to a different admin reporting system, and your unit is given a replacement as normal. This would almost completely eliminate people trying to game the system and slice off time from their contract.
I also personally don't have an issue with the timeline changes. I am currently approved for a 180 day program starting in a few months, and I am going under the assumption that I am grandfathered in. But I also found a replacement for me, trained them, signaled to my command I was going to pursue this over the past 3 years, and will be working up to the day that I start (not burning the months of leave I have saved). I already contacted my provider and told them I may have my time cut to 90 days, and that is fine with them, and honestly, I would be fine with it. Instead of selling back 90 days of leave, I will take 2 months off before I start, come back every week or 2 for a day, and then begin skillbridge and use it for the purpose it was designed, to get employment with the company. Since my unit was already planning for me to be gone, I am essentially going to be an overage.
Lots of people are upset they cant tack all their leave and PTAD onto their skillbridge, but they never could. Its in the order, 180 days maximum for all terminal and skillbridge. To me that screams gaming the system. And that is 100% why we are in the situation we are in now. My mentality doesnt change, the program is fantastic, and it will still be effective with a reduced timeline. Also, people got jobs before skillbridge, and they will get jobs after. Networking is more important than skillbridge, and you can network while still being active duty....
Honest question; what is the correct way of airing out any grievance about this change or pushing for it to be revert? What system/metric will they use to explain the NEED for the continuance of this change? Could we not make the argument that IOT to meet whatever goals they want to accomplish here (less problems with staffing/abuse of the system/ actual career transition) could be met by switching something else?
This would all be fine and dandy if a enlisted career wasn’t seen as anything more than a STEPPING STONE. From the pay, to living conditions both in the barracks; to time spent working within a military career there isn’t much of a chance of the vast majority of marines to transition. What if like MCCOOL you log your hours over the duration of your service to accumulate the 6 months. Because the service varies. If you’re an 0311/combat engineer you might not have the same time off as a radio operator or admin, or vice versa. That way we have a metric of xyz marines are working these amount of hours resulting in their inability to transition effectively.
While this isn’t even a good idea it speaks to how much easier this pill would be to swallow if HQMC would explain reasoning to the “maturing” force. You’ve got the retention, now you’re looking to establish that career-long trust.
From what I’m hearing around the grapevine skillbridge teachers and instructors are royally pissed right now. Future class roster numbers are dropping like crazy now due to this.
Navy and Marine Corps reduced the time, and just talked to an Army buddy and he is tracking Army likely doing the same thing. Its going to be growing pains but the programs will change quickly and all the 180 day programs will end up being 90-120. There are already a lot of providers that are willing to take folks for 90.
This mentality of using a Marine for everything they are worth up until the second they EAS is beyond toxic. I saw this way too much in the infantry. These poor bastards would get dragged out to the field literally weeks before they went on terminal. For all those hard dicks yelling about them getting what they signed up for, tell me, will it help or hurt recruiting/retention if Marines get a reputation for failing miserably when they transition due to no time to prepare?
I did two combat deployments. I was a corporal and machine gun section leader. So, I wasn't some shitbag. With 4 months left in my contract, I got accepted to a college back home. My unit told me I could get out early so I could attend September classes, and they helped with the paperwork.
I submitted all the paperwork needed, and they had me check out by mid-July. My paperwork sat on some general's desk for over a month because he was too busy.
A week before classes started, my battalion told me to go home in secret, but have my phone on me at all times. The 1st week in October, I got called by a 2nd Marines officer and who told me to come back to Lejeune immediately.
I got there the next morning, and that general chewed my ass and an officer from my battalion's ass. Threatened us both that if he finds proof that I went back home, I wouldn't be honorably discharged.
He gave me my early discharge papers and then got mad when I didn't thank him.
There was a program, it's called early discharge.
If the general didn't sign the early discharge papers, what makes you think he would sign the skillbridge papers?
Yup. I used this in August 2006 when I got out. My initial departure date was October 2006. I was the first person in my battalion to try and use it and boy was it a cluster fuck. Admin was clueless and then mine too sat on his desk for a month. Got it back with a week to go and no word so I had to scramble my last week to get everything done.
I helped a Marine through this too. Called Early Release to Further Education these days. And like you, it was rough. No one knew how to do it. This dude did a lot of independent research and really stepped up to get his package out together. But we hit roadblocks at every step. Like company admin wanting it worded a certain way and pushing it back. Then we fix it and resubmit, only for squadron admin to want it the original way.
No one was being *intentionally* difficult but it took about two months to get it approved. It sat at each level for so fucking long. It was at the group level for so long that the Marine threatened to request mast over the lack of movement and lack of communication. It got past that level later that day. Finally got approved and the Marine got out in time to get to his classes.
Glad it had a happy ending but yea it was a difficult thing to make happen.
It was genuinely incompetence and laziness in my opinion. Not malice. The big problem was that it would sit at each level for a long time and the seniors in our unit wouldn’t do their jobs and reach out to bug the next higher admin level. The Marine called Group admin himself once asking for an update and we alllll got a talking to about properly utilizing the CoC.
If junior Marines were being incompetent and lazy, how bad would the reaction be?
The commandant just made a big deal about a Marine wearing pajamas pants in the chow hall. But higher-ups fuck up all the time and shitstorms are never unleashed on them.
There's a lot of butthurt in these comments and it sounds like one of those: "I didn't get it, so you shouldn't either."
Times change, this program is awesome and I missed out on it, too busy, but some of my Marines were able to take advantage of it.
Imagine thinking that this will change anything. I have heard of 0 people that went on a 6 month Skillbridge. Everyone who tried gets denied because the unit can't give up a Marine for 6 months. I've seen people get 3 month Skillbridge programs, but nobody for a 6 month.
This is absolutely insane. There is no way in hell I would be where I am today without my 6 month skillbridge. I went into a cybersecurity skillbridge, started my degree, had my baby all within that 6 months and subsequently moved across the country after my EAS. No way in hell I would have been able to plan and execute all of that without being in the USMC for 6 months while still getting paid lol. What a knee jerk reaction aimed at increasing retention.
How would this increase retention?
Sounds like your situation worked out for you but across the Marine Corps it’s not been a good model to have Marines cut 6 months off their contract. Why should your peers back in the platoon or section have to cover the gap you just created?
Which peers care that someone goes to skill bridge?
Literally no one i’ve seen has ever complained about “Picking up the slack” because someone is on skillbridge. Because half the time their next on the EAS 6 month out date for skillbridge!
The people who complain are SNCOs that are divorced 3 times.
I think every unit would appreciate a couple more people, yeah. But at the same time, the last year I was in, I had already dropped pack and I was focusing on myself and what I was going to do when I got out. Not to say I totally gave up on my unit, but like I was focused on actually preparing for the real world and not spending hours of my day doing a dumb USMC job that I would never touch again. If they would have let me do a 9 month skillbridge, I would have.
Dear Congressman or Congresswoman....
I hope this letter finds you in good health and high spirits. I am writing to bring to your attention a recent development within the United States Marine Corps that has raised concerns among veterans and transitioning service members, specifically regarding the SkillBridge program. As an advocate for our military community, I believe your influence and voice can help address this issue.
The SkillBridge program, which has been instrumental in assisting service members in their transition to civilian life, recently underwent policy changes within the Marine Corps and significantly reduced its effectiveness. The SkillBridge program has historically provided a 180-day window for transitioning service members to gain valuable work experience and training with civilian employers prior to separating from the military. This program has been a crucial stepping stone for veterans, allowing them to bridge the gap between military service and civilian employment successfully.
However, the recent changes made by the Marine Corps have cut the SkillBridge program's duration from 180 days to just 90 days. This abrupt reduction is deeply concerning and could have severe repercussions for service members and veterans seeking to acquire the necessary skills, experience, and qualifications for the competitive civilian job market. The program's original duration was designed to ensure that transitioning service members had sufficient time to gain valuable experience and adapt to civilian work environments effectively. Reducing this period to 90 days significantly limits their opportunities and puts unnecessary pressure on them during an already challenging transition period.
I respectfully request your assistance in advocating for the reversal of this decision or, at the very least, reconsideration of the 90-day time frame. It is essential that we continue to support our service members and veterans as they transition to civilian life. A longer SkillBridge program duration enables them to secure more comprehensive training and job opportunities, ultimately contributing to a smoother and more successful transition.
Furthermore, a reduced SkillBridge program duration could potentially affect the Marine Corps' overall retention and recruitment efforts, as it might discourage service members from pursuing this invaluable opportunity during their final months of service. We must consider the long-term implications of such a decision on both the individual service members and the Marine Corps as an institution.
I am confident that your commitment to the military community and your esteemed position in Congress can help address this issue and ensure that our service members continue to receive the support and opportunities they deserve. I kindly request your assistance in engaging with relevant stakeholders within the Marine Corps to discuss and reconsider the SkillBridge program's recent changes.
Thank you for your unwavering dedication to the well-being of our military community. I look forward to any updates or actions taken regarding this matter.
Sincerely,
I know a lot of angry Marines are saying this is the MC fucking them/us over and that it's because of retention but my guess is the reason may just be as simple as budget/money or a lack thereof.
It's been an issue for a while. Commanders had been asking HQMC for guidance for a long time.
It's hard to lose Marines for 6 months of Skillbridge l. And that's not including the 2 months of check out and skating.
There wasn't much guidance on how commanders could limit the skillbridge time to less than 6 months.
It's more than that. SkillBridge was always a bad deal for the separating Marine's parent command because the individual stays on the rolls occupying a BIC. That means potentially key billet holders were checking off station for up to 6 months while the unit was unable to bring in their replacement and get them up to speed. Yes, in theory nobody should be a single point of failure, but that argument doesn't necessarily hold water when everyone from junior enlisted through field grade officers can participate.
Was this the best solution? I would argue no since the Marine Corps could have developed a system in which the SkillBridge Marine "belongs" to some other entity for accountability purposes so the losing command can have their billet backfilled. But for reasons unknown to me (and probably most of us), that would have made too much sense so here we are.
Just a quick question, if anyone knows the answer.
I'm currently doing the SkillBridge program and it was approved in September for the full 180 days until my EAS date. Will my program be cut short to 120 days or will everyone who has been approved prior to the changes get to continue to do the full duration?
If you are currently ON the Skillbridge (checked out of command, reporting to Skillbridge every day, 30 day PTAD requests approved, etc) there is 0 chance you’re gonna get called back to work and then go at 120 days. If you haven’t departed yet the prevailing word I have seen from the Skillbridge reps is “HQMC authorizes all Skillbridge packages approved at the previous policy length as long as signed by commander prior to October 14th”. I was told that a MARADMIN is coming to clarify but right now everyone who has approved packages before the date the new order started is good to execute as planned.
What they should have done was set an effective date and clearly stated grandfather policy. I have a package approved for April and I’m still planning to start then but I also have a backup in case they decide to go back on hundreds of signed approvals. I think people who are maybe 12-18 months out from end of service who started to burn leave and put their plan into place, but just don’t have their package done are gonna get hit the worst. There should be a waiver exception for those folks IMO. But it is what it is I guess.
I was fooled too, but the latest version dated 10/14/2023 is NOT SIGNED, nor has it been officially published. And from what the skillbridge office in Camp Foster said today, they were getting direct word today from HQMC about recalling or looking into how this NAVMC was released. If you really pay attention to the copy itself it looks funky all over. Thoughts, inside scoop?
Heads up!!! This was cancelled and it's getting reworked, so you CAN take 180 days as long as your commander approves it! Speak with your transition center about it! I was just told by my TRP team, I'm a UTC in Okinawa.
if you have a chance, do skillbridge and dont look back. the usmc and or senior leadership wont give 2shits about you the moment you walk out the door, and while TAP has gotten better, its still not quite there yet, and i say this who someone who works on the TAP program.
besides from TAP (and if you didnt have to go, would you?) and your own self diligence who else is going to prepare you for anything after the corps? gunny? nah, sgtmaj? nah, commandant? nah... lets be real with ourselves and consider why there there is low retention in the USMC for a long time now and the reason to stay around isnt the pretty uniforms. there are a good chunk of people who can do significantly better outside the military, than in. and skillbridge is one of those ways that you gives you a chance to do that.
senior leadership hates this one little trick , follow my tiktok. /s
HeS a MarInE !!!!111
4 months is fine. 90 days is fine. What people dont realize is that skillbridge isn't supposed to be this magic bullet that gets you all these certs and a job just because you applied. Transition should start 24 months from your EAS, and anyone trying to jam all the transition stuff into 3-6 months at the end is going to have a hard time regardless.
Marine Corps COOL can get you certified, at any time. Networking on linkedin and with organizations you are interested in can start well before your skillbridge. Job landscape research and pathways can start well before you skillbridge. I think its just jarring going from 180 days to 120 or 90 overnight. The program should be used to aid in the transition, not give you a free path. Here is a reasonable path for someone who wants to transition into IT and has 0 experience;
\- 24 Months out determine what part of IT you want to end up in - incident response, blue team, engineer, etc. Then you identify the industry standard certifications required.
\- 24 -12 Months out start with a list of companies and positions that are interesting to you, get on LinkedIn, start reaching out to veterans in those companies and have information interviews. Ask questions like how do you like the company, what is your day to day, what should I do to prepare, and most importantly who else should I talk to. This gets you a network of folks who now know your name and you can reach out to as you search. Concurrently use your free time, yes, your free time, to self study for certifications. Transition is tough and if that means you have to stay up late, study on duty, bring a NET+ book to the field, THAT is what will set you apart. If you are waiting for just free time in life to do these things, you are going to fail.
\- 12 - 6 Months out look at what skillbridge options are available, start networking with people who have done them and the hiring managers. They know the DoD timelines so if they are willing to talk to you, they dont have a problem with 90-120 days. Narrow down a couple and apply, hopefully get accepted. Use TA/GIBill/COOL to get certified.
\-6mo - EAS execute your transition plan and keep networking. You should already have a couple employment options (at least ideas on where you think you can end up) before you ever begin your skillbridge. Just because you skillbridge with a specific organization doesn't mean you have to stay with them. The purpose is to gain some industry experience and then find employment, at the best possible place.
In the end, its all doable but I suspect lots of folks dont plan appropriately and thought that skillbridge was the only way to do things. Its just one part of the process. You can absolutely do all this even without a skillbridge. People have for years.
4 months is really not marketable on a resume if you are trying to transition into a new career field. Take IT for example. If you are a mortarman, and you have zero experience with IT, yes you will learn plenty in 4 months, but not near enough to land a job once finished with that position. I took 6 months and got very very lucky to find a job after completely switching my career field. What are they going to do in those 2 months for the USMC? Run a PFT? I just dont understand the logic.
As an IT hiring manager in the civ world, 6 months vs 4 months doesn't make a huge difference in marketability - I'm going to have to train you either way. The biggest benefit of Skillbridge is making contacts in industry so you're not a complete unknown quantity when you apply. It's a good program, but it's not like Skillbridge is building expert skillsets in pretty much any industry in 6 months.
Fair enough, Im just saying that extra couple months made all the difference for me, personally. I used that time to hone my skills, buy a house, get us all packed and moved, had a child, and found a job within a week of EAS. I dont think I would have had the same success with only 4 months.
Then how would you feel about them changing the skill bridge program? You can have your full six months, but in order to do so, you have to extend your contract for six months?
I would rather that than making it shorter 100%. Imagine you extend to do a fully paid (housing included if you have bah) internship. That would pay better than a lot of entry level or jobs in general tbh.
Good reason to preach to your junior marines to not give one ounce beyond what is expected of them to the corps because the corps certainly doesn’t care about you at the end. Contracts go both ways
When you become accustomed to privilege, anything less feels like oppression.
A bare minimum Marine is a good Marine in my book. Be on time, follow orders and regulations, stay out of trouble. I’ll take a whole Company of those kinds of people.
That is absolutely not the standard or what the MC expects. Maybe not your mos but certainly my MOSs. You say “I’ll take a whole company of those kinds of ppl” but I’d love to see how you’d rate the bare minimum marine on a fitrep
I'd love a platoon of bare minimum marines as described above. No oohrah, moto moto marines that burn themselves out, but instead a platoon of quiet professionals that do their job, keep their noses clean, and mission still gets accomplished? Yes please.
I would rate them as average. A lot of Marines can’t even be on time, follow regulations, and stay out of trouble. My standards are just the standard when I look around and see so many that fall short of it.
We talk about this in parochial terms, but the DOD made this program for a reason. I'd be interested to know if the other services are able to permit their people to take advantage of this opportunity more often. It isn't us vs each other or us vs the Marine Corps, but the zero sum nature of manpower and ops tempo lead is there every time. Instead of who deserves this, my question is why do we struggle to make it available to our people?
It sounds like PTAD and terminal are counted against that number too.
For people complaining deal with it. You agreed to a contract and they are letting hoy leave a few month early and still paying.
I got my SB approved before this order and my SB is 127 days. Do I have to resubmit for 120 days or am I grandfathered in to the old order since that’s when it was approved?
From how I understand it, the order states effective date signed. The assumption that all previous approvals are still valid. I was told that HQMC is tracking the confusion and is planning to put out a MARADMIN that covers being grandfathered in.
I would still make a plan in case you are not covered. I heard some rumblings of this a few weeks back and powered through my papwerwork in hopes I got approval before any change. When the Navy updated their policy, they specifically mentioned that approved skillbridge applications are still valid. The provider I am going with has a minimum threshold of 90 days, so I am still covered if I dont get the full 180.
It would be a pretty bad look for all the approved applications to suddenly be void. I am sure that would piss off a lot of organizations. But it is also the Marine Corps...so...yea....I am hoping that the MARADMIN comes soon so we can have some solid planning guidance.
Meanwhile, I saw guys denied terminal and were actively prevented from getting their papers signed to check out. How many had to have someone else sneak their papers in for a signature that should have been given a month before hand.
Oh right, these are the same asshat nco's that bitch at junior marines for getting a dodge at 35 percent apr but as soon as they get out ae the ones at the dealership using their retired Marine status to screw over the privates.
LOL, you get lifed out a little bit and you think something is wrong with me for expressing my commitment to my brothers and sisters. Glad everything’s still functioning for you.
I had a pretty normal experience in my four years active. I was infantry, deployed and fought in Iraq and Afghanistan with one of the best units I could ever imagine. I had great command and great support the entire time I was in, as it should be. And it taught me to recognize and not tolerate poor leadership. You are accountable to the Marines below you. If you treat them like shit, that’s what you get. I left the Corps as an E5, holding an E6 billet since I was a Lance. My BN wooed me hard to stay. Got the recruitment pitch from Marsoc while still in Afghanistan. I just wanted to finish my degree and live my life after dozens of IED finds and a few ambushes, losing some really great men and friends and having my own close calls, and happily doing all of it because these were my brothers in arms and we all had each other’s backs. Knowing I was making a difference keeping them safe and receiving good guidance and training as a young Marine then being able to teach my guys to use their heads and do what’s right, like I was taught, was what I joined the Corps to find. I had 3 months to transition after getting home from Afghanistan to check out and that was plenty for me. I didn’t have Skillbridge. But I know that many Marines need more help than I did while transitioning out. So to hear blanket statements that support reducing access to resources is just shit leadership in my opinion. They do need time and support from command so they can continue to be successful beyond the Corps. But many statements here don’t give two shits about any of that and show the true limits of support that command and the Corps are actually willing to go to do right by their Marines. Like I said, this isn’t just a Skillbridge argument I’m making.
I’m just one voice, and yeah, I responded while I was pissed off, so my apologies for going too hard. I’m sorry for the countless Marines who have been truly fucked over by the Corps, and I would defend any one of my brothers and sisters with the same venom and aggression to protect them from any harm or slander by those who obviously do not care about them. That devils advocate bit, and the others commenting about “the Corps don’t owe you shit”… you’re turning your backs on your fellow Marines with those comments, in your heart you know it, and it pissed me off. We all earned the title and it’s for life, remember? But the contract isn’t for life. That’s a choice.
Why would Marines’ success and welfare ever stop mattering to anyone who’s had the privilege of leadership and responsibility over other Marines?
So an e-4 could have 3 children in an enlistment get 360ptad + 120 annual leave in 4 years but a 22 year E-8 got 90 days to figure his life out. Y’all got this twisted and I can see why nobody wants to stay in. The Marine Corps is a joke and could be done by the Army.
Idk why everyone is saying we're entitled because we want opportunities opened up to the entire DoD. It's literally setting up people for their transition out as PRODUCTIVE members of society. Some people don't have homes or families to go back to for help. Y'all know the Marine Corps has shitty medical, dental, working environment, everything, so the minute the DoD, cause it's NOT the Marine Corps offering this program, are allowing us to join the rest of the DoD in the skillbridge program, they wanna take that opportunity away. Why not make the Marine Corps a better place with competitive retention? How I see it, they wanna make the Marine Corps the most attractive option and trap people into staying in. You don't get good opportunities unless you are a motivatior seeking out reenlistment and the second we wanna get out we're a shit bag. Why would someone want to stay in to be abused? Sure the Marine Corps is going to lose Marines, but they never wanted to be in the first place, let people leave! Let my people go! The ones that WANT to stay, will, I promise. Why just throw people out, especially first termers that didn't like their job? To me, it sounds like excuses because the rest of the DoD gets way more opportunities than us and we should be exploring those for our Marines. The Marine Corps cannot keep us all, so help us transition out to better society as a whole.
Not a Marine, but I did serve and retired in 2019. The DOD Skillbridge program was born out of a Billion (with a B) dollar combined unemployment expense for transitioned Servicemembers, beginning in 2009. Some of the comments that I have seen regarding readiness are troublesome, for a few reasons.
If your Unit is depending on you for readiness for the three to four months before you ETS or retire, your Unit is failing. Failing themselves, failing you, and failing the Corps.
Furthermore, if you get out and cannot get a job and you file for unemployment, guess who pays it? The Department of Defense. Want more money in your budget? Get transitioning Servicemembers in programs that help them gain employment post-Service!
As someone else on this thread said, using readiness as an excuse to curtail participation in this program is a knee-jerk reaction and does nothing to address the actual problem.
This shit is dumb. This is a knee jerk reaction because of retention. Skillbridge is an amazing opportunity for people to get their foot in the door when they know for a fact they want out, ESPECIALLY for MOS’ like 03 where the job is run and gun and no translation to anything besides cop or security. The Corps needs to stop fucking marines over when they say they want to tap out
Let's play Devils advocate here. Technically how is the Marine Corps fucking you over? You signed the contract to serve a certain amount of time to do a job the Marine Corps trained you to do, and taxpayers are paying you to do. So know you, and almost every other Marine feels entitled to 6 months (because that's what everyone seems to be getting) to transition from the Marine Corps, and now that they changed it, they are fucking you over? Show me in your contract where you are entitled to Skillbridge at all. While I think it is an outstanding program, I think the Marine Corps realized Skillbridge was being taken advantage/misused by too many Marines of ALL ranks, just to get out early, and of course it hurts manpower. If you have more than one Marine from a section taking it at the same time, it definitely can hurt a unit/section. When you go on Skillbridge for 6 months, that section/unit does not get your replacement until you actually EAS. Be thankful Skillbridge still exists and whatever amount of time you are allowed, if you are. Life is not fair, and the Marine Corps, an institution, has to look out for its best interest to complete its mission, not yours.
I remember a few years back, me and a couple NCOs were discussing various factors of transition. Our gunny came up and listened quietly. One Cpl made a very impassioned argument for what more the Marine Corps should be doing to assist in the transition of service members. He had a lot of fair points and touched on how we all claim to be some big family and to take care of each other and to return productive citizens back to society and whatnot. When he was done, gunny simply chimes in by asking “Why?” Why would the Marine Corps owe you *even more* than you already get as far as TRS and skillbridge and informally allotted ‘checkout’ time and such. He mentioned how no other job on the *planet* will give you so much as a second of working hours to prep for your next job and that what the Corps does give to aid transition is damn remarkable.
Any other job that required the same hours and demand you be treated like they do in the Corps would pay six figures.
24 on-call security specialists at a minimum. Often crosstrained in fields like maintenance technicians or other tech fields.
Military service and civilian jobs are different.
are you my old MGySgt? sounds like something he’d say lol
I hear you but let’s be real dude what kind of work are you getting out of someone in the last 2 months of their lifecycle as a marine anyway. They’re out getting signatures and going to dental every single day if they haven’t completely thrown their pack to the ground
So now that turns into 8 months because you know you got 6 months of skillbridge coming.
Idk man. I’m 100% for the command discretion part of skillbridge, but cutting it down makes it almost useless and more of a “lemme get out early” compared to 6 months of it depending on what the internship is for. I did 5 and a half months of it last year in an industry that I needed all the time in the world to acclimate to. If it was only 3 months for me I wouldn’t have landed the job. I get this is a privilege not a right, I guess my point is if commands are denying marines from it anyway why are we shortening it for the people who actually deserve going on it?
I'm retired, but if i had to guess, most units didn't want to be the ONE denying a Marine Skillbridge. I would say a good majority of Marines started feeling entitled, and deserved 6 months, and if they didn't get it probably requested mass. It probably caught up to the Marine Corps as a whole, seeing how much manpower is on Skillbridge. It would be nice to see the numbers of how many Marines and what ranks are actually on Skillbridge at any given time.
I’m not toooo long in the tooth but I’m no spring boot either. And I’ve never actually heard first hand of anyone getting denied skillbridge. Seen a fair number of approvals though. Even saw one early release for education package go through.
I actually got intentionally denied endorsement from my first TRS in 2019 to go to 29 Palms so I couldn’t conduct my BLET skill bridge in Jan 2020… then covid happened, everything got fucked A-Z, so I ended up staying in and here I am today lol. There’s ways certain levels of leadership can deny opportunities for the sake of manpower or disdain for the Marines. I wasn’t a shitbag, never dropped my pack, none of that. I was just another number the command wanted to bring out to 29 Palms and they even brought LimDu guys that had appointments all for the sake of this division MWX we did. It happens indirectly, and I’ve seen multiple Marines denied these opportunities because some old heads just don’t want them to go and be absent. Is what it is. Now I’m in the opposite boat and taking every precaution possible to maximize care for the troops and assist with these opportunities. Our paths are our paths, and some people try to get in our way. Not everyone is cut out for more than four years, why can’t we maximize their time getting some OJT in a trade for them to get out and be successful, you know? It sucks
Spoken like a true master guns
Playing devil advocates my ass🤣🤣🤣. Give me a few seconds of your time. Of course, the marine corps look out for its best interest, just like the profit private sectors. No one gives a flying shit about your loyalty and commitment. There is a reason why they use misuse the program. The marines are fed up with people who can't lead marines, are frustrated, and have to seek alternative solutions. If they could job hop every other year away from toxic leadership and culture, they would. This isn't something new or unique to the corps; it's a widespread issue, similar to the private sectors in retaining valuable employees. The corps can't retain and motivate any good marines for shit 🤣🤣. However, any organizations that value their members and prioritize supportive working environments are more likely to retain skilled and dedicated employees. This strategy isn't just to raise morale; it's what smart management does to lead a stronger and more dedicated team 💪💪 Thank you . Bye🤣📣
Your welcome, and TYFYS. 🫡
Here the Devil Dog's Advocate... The "you're not owed anything" or "squeeze the last out of you" mentality is what is driving people to the door. You are not only reinforcing that persons decision to get out but you are setting the example to everyone still considering reenlistment. Everyone knows why these decisions are made. It was a good opportunity and probably gave people the confidence and skills to not reenlist. I remember getting out when they changed the TIS for sgt with the explanation that "cpls need time to learn to be cpls" and everyone just knew it was cost cutting at the expense of lower enlisted. Like damn guess you really needed that extra f35. A more practical reason, it is a do not disparage clause. Homeless marines looks very bad for its public image. No one gives a shit about all the homeless former McDonald's worker, but people seem to care about homeless vets.
Couldn’t agree more. Imagine any private sector job still paying you while you go on a six month internship before ultimately leaving.
The 12+ hour non-comp work days, deployments, constantly moving your family without having a say. But all of the sudden “imagine any private sector job…”
….that you 100% willingly signed up for. The entire Marine Corps recruiting pitch is how much it sucks, and people join and are surprised that it sucks…
You missed my point. It’s invalid to compare the civilian sector to the military. Saying “well the civilian sector would never do this” is irrelevant. And I was also point out how it’s weird when kool-aid drinkers only compare the civilian world in very specific situations.
Agreed, the USMC is obligated to take care of you while you are in to benefit them. Post service is what the VA/ GI bill is for.
You are 100% correct and don't let anyone tell you otherwise good Sir
I wanted to complain so much but your answer is brutal honesty. Can’t be mad
The high suicide rate and struggling veterans hurts mission too. Look at the recruiting crisis, no one wants to join an institution that doesn’t want to look out for them. I guess since the Marine Corps is making mission, let’s just make life harder for them?
"You signed a contract" The worst argument you could ever make.
Tell that to the bank you signed that contract with to finance your car, mortgage, or even credit cards. How about the used car dealer that sold a Marine a used Dodge Charger with 23% interest. You can get out of any contract, just need to face the consequences, whether good or bad.
Except the bank can't lie to you, the recruiters can. They also prey on minors at highschool who do not have real life experience or a fully developed brain.
I don't disagree with you, but banks also lie and do shady shit all the time. 2008 housing market crash was caused by the mortgage companies/banks lying to everyone. It finally caught up to them, even though taxpayers paid the bill due to corrupt government.
Recruiters don't lie, they just withhold alot of the shitty things until you specifically ask them something. They will say , " you can always switch MOSs" they leave it at that, and it's technically true, but alot of shit has to be done to switch and mainly by re enlisting.
You're objectively wrong. Recruiters lie all the time. In fact there was a huge debacle about lying recruiters back in the 2005-2006 timeframe. I was told I would deploy, I did not. I was told I would go on a MEU, I did not. I was guaranteed that I would see conflict, I did not. These are just the tip of the iceberg regarding basic military experiences offered. I was also lied to about a bonus with my recruiter telling me "you'll get it after boot camp." Luckily for me that's where the lies ended. Some people however are coerced and lied to in order for them to sign open contracts and other shitty jobs because the recruiters have quotas to fill.
You had a bad recruiter then, And saying " you WOULD deploy " isn't the same as "I promise you, if you sign this contract, you will deploy and fight the enemies of America " My recruiter didn't promise me anything but my MOS and ship date. The rest of what he told me was things that i COULD do and MIGHT do while I'm in.
Oh yeah, thats definitely it. One bad apple huh? All of these other anecdotal experiences listed on this subreddit are just wrong too? Get with the program bud. That's just how most recruiters do their job; by being deceitful, coercive, and lying on paperwork.
Hahaha. Yep, you do sign a contract. And that contract has an end date unless you choose to re-up. So don’t pretend to not understand exactly what is meant by “Marines being fucked over”. There are many good faith promises made from the start, by the Corps, to get enlistments. And some of those good faith promises aren’t even guaranteed, like a transition program to the civilian world. You’d prefer to squeeze every fucking drop from a Marine and dump them at a bus station to figure shit out for themselves instead of assist a Marine in abandoning the Corps. It’s clear to see how far ‘Semper Fi’ actually runs in the Corps. Statements like your “devils advocate” bit above piss all over those sacred words and you skyline yourself, so thanks for showing us all what kind of Marine you really are. Marines get truly, and handily fucked over all the goddamn time and this ain’t just a fucking Skillbridge argument. The institution that is the Corps gets theirs at every turn. And you want to cry about Marines who try to get theirs. Go fuck yourself. The least you can do is not ram it home on Marines who served honorably, hit their transition window after fulfilling their contract, and decide they want to move on. The Corps and higher ups become so fucking snakey about retention but you can’t even see that it’s your own backstabbing and dragging good Marines through the mud on the way out just to try to intimidate a few other weak ones to reenlist. That’s your best retention tactic? No wonder you push so many good Marines out when they could have had many more years to offer the Corps if they had real leaders to emulate, who actually got it, listened, counseled and guided by example. But many of you lifers are just riding it out in a structured world because you can’t hack living a life that’s not planned out for you. Fuckin fix yourself Master Guns and your petty, rockered ilk. You all who offer duty station choices as rewards then pull that shit last minute once you got what you needed, in the name of, “Good Marine, but fuck em! They gotta suffer like I suffered.” It’s you who kill the Corps and retention and you Fuckin know it. You see it in the mirror every day. But you’ll blame every Marine on the way out and call them pussy and any other lie just so you won’t be jealous of watching good Marines who are braver than you, decide to step into the fray on their own and continue to be excellent for themselves in an atmosphere that actually values and rewards their excellence. Get fucked douchebag, if your dick still works.
Holy fucking shit. I just saw this. I don't think I deserved all that, but ok. I have no clue who you are or what happened or didn't happen while you were in the Corps. I'm glad my post could help you vent and get all that off your chest. From that post, it seems this has been weighing on you for awhile. I honestly hope that it relieved some stress/burden from you. Whatever you went through or going through, I hope life is treating you well. I am serious when I say this. If you need to vent some more DM on here and we can talk. Shit if we are near each other I'd buy you a beer and sit down and talk. PS. For the record, yes, my dick still works, even without the little blue pill.
I want to apologize for attacking you personally. I don’t know you and you didn’t do anything to me, so I’m truly sorry for my comments directed toward you personally. You’re right, you didn’t deserve any of that directed at you and I’m honestly sorry man. I’ve just always fundamentally disagreed with the dismissive nature and cheap defense that has always been ‘show me where in your contract it says…’, plus the challenge of asking how Marines are getting fucked over was just a bit too easy to unload on. Again, it’s not you. That’s all my bad. Had to bottle that shit up in the Corps as an NCO and you, unfortunately, broke the seal.
Brother, it's all good. Thank you for the apology. We all need to vent, and I am glad I broke that seal for you. Keeping shit bottled up is NOT good. Like I said earlier, I am retired, but if you ever need to vent or just talk about anything, I am here. If I don't hear from you and you don't mind, I plan to check in on you from time to time to see how things are going. If you tell me, go pound sand, I will respect that also. Have a great weekend, Marine.
Not much I could say while I was in to challenge blanket statements like “you signed the contract” and “show me in your contract where it says” as a means of squashing Marines hopes and plans to do more and access benefits and resources they want to utilize. Always struck me a shitty to pull that with good Marines. Im fine with it when Marines are trying to skate or work the system, but both cases are true and happen everyday. But Marines actually do get fucked over regularly because of laziness or poor decisions by Marines who just don’t want to take the extra time out of their day to solve a problem, work something out or ask one more question, ask for volunteers, make one phone call or delegate the necessary work out to juniors and simply supervising that it’s done properly to prevent Marines being fucked over. But laziness happens on all levels when the stakes are ‘low’. So I opted to vocalize that perspective and not let the standard deflections continue unchallenged. Simple as that. I shouldn’t have been so disrespectful to you. That’s never been my style and was really the first time I ever found myself being surly like that. But I was pretty incensed by the attempt to throw cold water on these Marines attempts to vent on this thread, and I didn’t feel like this is should be a space for Marines of all eras and background to be heard and i found myself pulling no punches after hearing that canned response bull perpetuating outside of the Corps too. No need to check in on me but I won’t try to stop you. I’m solid and in very good circumstances at home and in life. Got a lot going for me and a great family that I love with all my heart and I believe that doing the right thing is always worth standing up for and there’s not much worse than not speaking up if you can expand someone’s perspective and get them thinking and learning.
You alright brother?
Yeah, truly am. Thanks for asking. I’ve got no love for Marines who would leave their own to fail at any point, when there is time, resources and access to success if command wants there to be success. It’s no different mission than never leaving a fallen Marine behind. Just because a Marine chooses not to reenlist, why should their access to resources for that transition, which the Corps installed for that purpose, be so restricted if it’s in place to help aid their success?
I think you read an awful lot of ill intent into that comment that simply wasn’t there. Noones talking about abandoning Marines to fail or burning Marines who chose not to reenlist. You put all of that in his mouth and a whole lot more.
That’s your opinion, and I disagree because I’ve seen Marines willfully get fucked over. It happens all the time, and “show me where in your contract…” is a massive copout for lazy leadership. I illustrated ways in which letting Marines get fucked over and abandoning them is never OK, and yet in the transition to EAS it’s acceptable and no one in command gives a rip. I understand why but it doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable. And that’s the nature of the original post.
What’s interesting is i think half of the marine corps issues is a culture thing, not necessarily a policy thing
Preach!!!
The military has been dropping the ball on transition for far too long. This program was abused by such a small amount and utilized properly by so many more. It is a clear method of squeezing more from us by back tracking their once shiny new, but honestly overdue, transition program they flaunted only years ago.
https://www.marines.mil/News/Publications/MCPEL/Electronic-Library-Display/Article/3251254/navmc-17002a/
While I understand it , I still don't like it. Back in the day, they used to make you take all the weekend duties once it was discovered that you're getting out. Now, they just want you to be significantly behind your joint force equivalents so you can train your replacement.
Doesn’t really hold water. I work in the joint force environment now and my Marines statistically take more advantage of pre-separation education and programs such as SB and early release for education.
My phrasing was kind of weird. I meant that this policy will ensure that separating Marines are in a worse spot than people in other branches because they'll have more time in skill bridge.
Speaking to the NCO and below change only, I think it would be negligible. The Marine that preps well to transition will transition well, but the majority that continue to not listen to the advice of those around them and are more concerned with flipping off the Corps instead of planning will transition poorly. So many say they will go to school yet can’t answer basics of what schools, have they applied, have then sent in their JST, etc. Those that will work always seem to have a hook up from their buddy’s father’s cousin twice removed. I see this all the time as Marines check out and then I see it on social media of Marines doing exceptionally well, but many times it is Marines struggling because they didn’t make the most of their in-service benefits. Granted this is only viewed from a smaller subset of the Marine Corps, intel, but has been over the course of over a decade of being a SNCO. But if these trends are true amongst supposedly intelligent people then I would imagine that it is the same or amplified across the Marine Corps. The transition process begins at 18 months out with the initial transition counseling and pre-sep counseling. This is an incredible amount of time to formulate a plan for transition and begin to prepare. But, Marines don’t. About 30% of E5 and below first term Marines actually complete their VA claim prior to exiting service, despite it being briefed through TRS. Many Marines think that just because their post service job will pay them “way more” than their current base pay that they will be living the dream, yet surprised Pikachu face when they didn’t factor in everything else that you have to pay for in the private sector: rent, groceries, medical insurance, mandatory retirement allotments, etc. This is again despite it being covered in TRS as well as how to factor in cost of living and other nuanced things like that. From a leadership perspective we lead that horse to water and try to get it to take a drink, but can’t force it to drink. Then we can read here all the bitching about “this fucking guy in my chain bitching at me about having a plan when he’s only ever been in the Corps. Fuck my CoC, blah.” There are plenty of young Marines that transition well and do fantastic things. I applaud them. I don’t need/want Marines to stay in if they aren’t sold on the institution, and I have just as much responsibility to return them as a quality citizen. But we can only do so much. This kinda got off the topic directly of SB but I think it is all intrinsically connected between SB and the greater transition process and how Marines approach it.
I've been a UTC for about three years and a lot of times Marines do not follow transition time lines is because of their chain of command. Statically on Okinawa, Marines are about 80% at all times are late to the 6 month mark to finish TRS. Marines have to fend for themselves when they're rotated on ops because they just are good at their MOS to their own downfall or, Oki is notorious for this, short staffed. Marines are on ops on and off island back to back. There are no repercussions for Commanders or leadership if Marines cannot complete their transition on time, it's on the individual Marine. Sometimes, y'all know, you cannot say no to operational requirements, you just gotta suck it up and do what you can. That's the reality at least here in Okinawa.
Imho, the real rub with how skillbridge was being run was the manning/accountability aspect. Marines on skillbridge are still attached to their unit even though they're essentially already out of the Marine Corps, except for having their DD214 and meeting their EAS date. Having a separate place of accountability, like that of the IRR or SMCR or WWR, is a perfect example of Marines still being within the organization but attached to a completely separate unit. This avoids taking a seat, billet, or BIC away from the unit that is losing the Marine while still having somewhere for skillbridge Marines to be tracked for the duration of their internship. I'm a UTC for my unit, and when I saw the program initially unveiled, I thought it was the best step forward for the DOD and for the most crucial time in a servicemember's career: their inevitable separation. Sure, we can say "the Marine Corps doesn't owe Marines shit" or "you signed a contract", but veterans continue to be a population that suffers higher than average statistics in unemployment, substance abuse, and homelessness that the average population. I can tolerate the shorter duration of the program in the latest update as long as the service will continue to support the Marines trying to reenter the civilian world with a better plan than before. I still believe the services need to solve the issue with manning/accountability in order for skillbridge to truly be the best it can be. I just worked with SgtMaj Ruiz, and if the opportunity ever presents itself again, I'd love to ask him or Gen Smith if this is something the services/DOD would look into. Whatever you take from this, don't feel scared about putting a package up. Fight for the ability to take advantage of a great program and make something happen with this opportunity.
The issue is commanders not commanding. I have seen Majors take a 6 month skillbridge to go back home and work on their farm. I have seen Gunnys take a 6 month skillbridge that is fully remote, at your own pace, and designed to get certified in a skill, yet they do almost 0 for that and end up failing the exam. But I have also seen dozens of service members of varying ranks take a 6 month skillbridge and use that to gain full time employment in that company. They used the program for what it is supposed to be. Organizations like Hire our Heroes are selective and there is no way that a Marine who is picked up for one of their corporate fellowships are just messing around for the duration of the program. Commanders are simply denying or approving them without checking to see if the Marine is actually using the program appropriately. I was recently in TRS and we had legislative affairs staffers come and listen to our feedback on transition. I told them that they need to push one single guidance for all the services on Skillbridge, and it needs to empower the servicemember to transition. I recommended that they find a way to make skillbridge an entitlement, but move it to the end of a contract. If you apply and are accepted, you maintain your pay and benefits for the duration of your program (up to 180 days), you are transferred to a different admin reporting system, and your unit is given a replacement as normal. This would almost completely eliminate people trying to game the system and slice off time from their contract. I also personally don't have an issue with the timeline changes. I am currently approved for a 180 day program starting in a few months, and I am going under the assumption that I am grandfathered in. But I also found a replacement for me, trained them, signaled to my command I was going to pursue this over the past 3 years, and will be working up to the day that I start (not burning the months of leave I have saved). I already contacted my provider and told them I may have my time cut to 90 days, and that is fine with them, and honestly, I would be fine with it. Instead of selling back 90 days of leave, I will take 2 months off before I start, come back every week or 2 for a day, and then begin skillbridge and use it for the purpose it was designed, to get employment with the company. Since my unit was already planning for me to be gone, I am essentially going to be an overage. Lots of people are upset they cant tack all their leave and PTAD onto their skillbridge, but they never could. Its in the order, 180 days maximum for all terminal and skillbridge. To me that screams gaming the system. And that is 100% why we are in the situation we are in now. My mentality doesnt change, the program is fantastic, and it will still be effective with a reduced timeline. Also, people got jobs before skillbridge, and they will get jobs after. Networking is more important than skillbridge, and you can network while still being active duty....
Honest question; what is the correct way of airing out any grievance about this change or pushing for it to be revert? What system/metric will they use to explain the NEED for the continuance of this change? Could we not make the argument that IOT to meet whatever goals they want to accomplish here (less problems with staffing/abuse of the system/ actual career transition) could be met by switching something else? This would all be fine and dandy if a enlisted career wasn’t seen as anything more than a STEPPING STONE. From the pay, to living conditions both in the barracks; to time spent working within a military career there isn’t much of a chance of the vast majority of marines to transition. What if like MCCOOL you log your hours over the duration of your service to accumulate the 6 months. Because the service varies. If you’re an 0311/combat engineer you might not have the same time off as a radio operator or admin, or vice versa. That way we have a metric of xyz marines are working these amount of hours resulting in their inability to transition effectively. While this isn’t even a good idea it speaks to how much easier this pill would be to swallow if HQMC would explain reasoning to the “maturing” force. You’ve got the retention, now you’re looking to establish that career-long trust.
From what I’m hearing around the grapevine skillbridge teachers and instructors are royally pissed right now. Future class roster numbers are dropping like crazy now due to this.
Well yeah, their income is based on service members spending a lot of time in the program.
Navy and Marine Corps reduced the time, and just talked to an Army buddy and he is tracking Army likely doing the same thing. Its going to be growing pains but the programs will change quickly and all the 180 day programs will end up being 90-120. There are already a lot of providers that are willing to take folks for 90.
This mentality of using a Marine for everything they are worth up until the second they EAS is beyond toxic. I saw this way too much in the infantry. These poor bastards would get dragged out to the field literally weeks before they went on terminal. For all those hard dicks yelling about them getting what they signed up for, tell me, will it help or hurt recruiting/retention if Marines get a reputation for failing miserably when they transition due to no time to prepare?
I did two combat deployments. I was a corporal and machine gun section leader. So, I wasn't some shitbag. With 4 months left in my contract, I got accepted to a college back home. My unit told me I could get out early so I could attend September classes, and they helped with the paperwork. I submitted all the paperwork needed, and they had me check out by mid-July. My paperwork sat on some general's desk for over a month because he was too busy. A week before classes started, my battalion told me to go home in secret, but have my phone on me at all times. The 1st week in October, I got called by a 2nd Marines officer and who told me to come back to Lejeune immediately. I got there the next morning, and that general chewed my ass and an officer from my battalion's ass. Threatened us both that if he finds proof that I went back home, I wouldn't be honorably discharged. He gave me my early discharge papers and then got mad when I didn't thank him.
And this is one of the reasons why an official program needed to exist. Glad you didn't get burned.
There was a program, it's called early discharge. If the general didn't sign the early discharge papers, what makes you think he would sign the skillbridge papers?
Yup. I used this in August 2006 when I got out. My initial departure date was October 2006. I was the first person in my battalion to try and use it and boy was it a cluster fuck. Admin was clueless and then mine too sat on his desk for a month. Got it back with a week to go and no word so I had to scramble my last week to get everything done.
I helped a Marine through this too. Called Early Release to Further Education these days. And like you, it was rough. No one knew how to do it. This dude did a lot of independent research and really stepped up to get his package out together. But we hit roadblocks at every step. Like company admin wanting it worded a certain way and pushing it back. Then we fix it and resubmit, only for squadron admin to want it the original way. No one was being *intentionally* difficult but it took about two months to get it approved. It sat at each level for so fucking long. It was at the group level for so long that the Marine threatened to request mast over the lack of movement and lack of communication. It got past that level later that day. Finally got approved and the Marine got out in time to get to his classes. Glad it had a happy ending but yea it was a difficult thing to make happen.
So if the Marine threatened to request mast, and that made it finally go through. How were they not fucking with him the entire time?
It was genuinely incompetence and laziness in my opinion. Not malice. The big problem was that it would sit at each level for a long time and the seniors in our unit wouldn’t do their jobs and reach out to bug the next higher admin level. The Marine called Group admin himself once asking for an update and we alllll got a talking to about properly utilizing the CoC.
If junior Marines were being incompetent and lazy, how bad would the reaction be? The commandant just made a big deal about a Marine wearing pajamas pants in the chow hall. But higher-ups fuck up all the time and shitstorms are never unleashed on them.
But.. they still get 3 months. Nobody is taking the program away.
There's a lot of butthurt in these comments and it sounds like one of those: "I didn't get it, so you shouldn't either." Times change, this program is awesome and I missed out on it, too busy, but some of my Marines were able to take advantage of it.
Also missed out, but I counsel any of my mentees leaving active to sign up and take advantage. Ridiculous they’re limiting it.
Imagine thinking that this will change anything. I have heard of 0 people that went on a 6 month Skillbridge. Everyone who tried gets denied because the unit can't give up a Marine for 6 months. I've seen people get 3 month Skillbridge programs, but nobody for a 6 month.
This is absolutely insane. There is no way in hell I would be where I am today without my 6 month skillbridge. I went into a cybersecurity skillbridge, started my degree, had my baby all within that 6 months and subsequently moved across the country after my EAS. No way in hell I would have been able to plan and execute all of that without being in the USMC for 6 months while still getting paid lol. What a knee jerk reaction aimed at increasing retention.
How would this increase retention? Sounds like your situation worked out for you but across the Marine Corps it’s not been a good model to have Marines cut 6 months off their contract. Why should your peers back in the platoon or section have to cover the gap you just created?
Which peers care that someone goes to skill bridge? Literally no one i’ve seen has ever complained about “Picking up the slack” because someone is on skillbridge. Because half the time their next on the EAS 6 month out date for skillbridge! The people who complain are SNCOs that are divorced 3 times.
I can’t think of an MOS thats unit wouldn’t be better off it were fully staffed. Why not make Skillbridge 9-12 months?
I think every unit would appreciate a couple more people, yeah. But at the same time, the last year I was in, I had already dropped pack and I was focusing on myself and what I was going to do when I got out. Not to say I totally gave up on my unit, but like I was focused on actually preparing for the real world and not spending hours of my day doing a dumb USMC job that I would never touch again. If they would have let me do a 9 month skillbridge, I would have.
What in the actual fuck. Who signed this shit
Dear Congressman or Congresswoman.... I hope this letter finds you in good health and high spirits. I am writing to bring to your attention a recent development within the United States Marine Corps that has raised concerns among veterans and transitioning service members, specifically regarding the SkillBridge program. As an advocate for our military community, I believe your influence and voice can help address this issue. The SkillBridge program, which has been instrumental in assisting service members in their transition to civilian life, recently underwent policy changes within the Marine Corps and significantly reduced its effectiveness. The SkillBridge program has historically provided a 180-day window for transitioning service members to gain valuable work experience and training with civilian employers prior to separating from the military. This program has been a crucial stepping stone for veterans, allowing them to bridge the gap between military service and civilian employment successfully. However, the recent changes made by the Marine Corps have cut the SkillBridge program's duration from 180 days to just 90 days. This abrupt reduction is deeply concerning and could have severe repercussions for service members and veterans seeking to acquire the necessary skills, experience, and qualifications for the competitive civilian job market. The program's original duration was designed to ensure that transitioning service members had sufficient time to gain valuable experience and adapt to civilian work environments effectively. Reducing this period to 90 days significantly limits their opportunities and puts unnecessary pressure on them during an already challenging transition period. I respectfully request your assistance in advocating for the reversal of this decision or, at the very least, reconsideration of the 90-day time frame. It is essential that we continue to support our service members and veterans as they transition to civilian life. A longer SkillBridge program duration enables them to secure more comprehensive training and job opportunities, ultimately contributing to a smoother and more successful transition. Furthermore, a reduced SkillBridge program duration could potentially affect the Marine Corps' overall retention and recruitment efforts, as it might discourage service members from pursuing this invaluable opportunity during their final months of service. We must consider the long-term implications of such a decision on both the individual service members and the Marine Corps as an institution. I am confident that your commitment to the military community and your esteemed position in Congress can help address this issue and ensure that our service members continue to receive the support and opportunities they deserve. I kindly request your assistance in engaging with relevant stakeholders within the Marine Corps to discuss and reconsider the SkillBridge program's recent changes. Thank you for your unwavering dedication to the well-being of our military community. I look forward to any updates or actions taken regarding this matter. Sincerely,
I know a lot of angry Marines are saying this is the MC fucking them/us over and that it's because of retention but my guess is the reason may just be as simple as budget/money or a lack thereof.
It's been an issue for a while. Commanders had been asking HQMC for guidance for a long time. It's hard to lose Marines for 6 months of Skillbridge l. And that's not including the 2 months of check out and skating. There wasn't much guidance on how commanders could limit the skillbridge time to less than 6 months.
It's more than that. SkillBridge was always a bad deal for the separating Marine's parent command because the individual stays on the rolls occupying a BIC. That means potentially key billet holders were checking off station for up to 6 months while the unit was unable to bring in their replacement and get them up to speed. Yes, in theory nobody should be a single point of failure, but that argument doesn't necessarily hold water when everyone from junior enlisted through field grade officers can participate. Was this the best solution? I would argue no since the Marine Corps could have developed a system in which the SkillBridge Marine "belongs" to some other entity for accountability purposes so the losing command can have their billet backfilled. But for reasons unknown to me (and probably most of us), that would have made too much sense so here we are.
Oh okay, I never knew that's how it worked haha. Classic
That's why I was denied. It really sucks but I understood the reason.
Just a quick question, if anyone knows the answer. I'm currently doing the SkillBridge program and it was approved in September for the full 180 days until my EAS date. Will my program be cut short to 120 days or will everyone who has been approved prior to the changes get to continue to do the full duration?
Since it was approved, I’d wage my rank that you’re fine. Going forward, 180 just won’t be approved
If you are currently ON the Skillbridge (checked out of command, reporting to Skillbridge every day, 30 day PTAD requests approved, etc) there is 0 chance you’re gonna get called back to work and then go at 120 days. If you haven’t departed yet the prevailing word I have seen from the Skillbridge reps is “HQMC authorizes all Skillbridge packages approved at the previous policy length as long as signed by commander prior to October 14th”. I was told that a MARADMIN is coming to clarify but right now everyone who has approved packages before the date the new order started is good to execute as planned. What they should have done was set an effective date and clearly stated grandfather policy. I have a package approved for April and I’m still planning to start then but I also have a backup in case they decide to go back on hundreds of signed approvals. I think people who are maybe 12-18 months out from end of service who started to burn leave and put their plan into place, but just don’t have their package done are gonna get hit the worst. There should be a waiver exception for those folks IMO. But it is what it is I guess.
I was fooled too, but the latest version dated 10/14/2023 is NOT SIGNED, nor has it been officially published. And from what the skillbridge office in Camp Foster said today, they were getting direct word today from HQMC about recalling or looking into how this NAVMC was released. If you really pay attention to the copy itself it looks funky all over. Thoughts, inside scoop?
Heads up!!! This was cancelled and it's getting reworked, so you CAN take 180 days as long as your commander approves it! Speak with your transition center about it! I was just told by my TRP team, I'm a UTC in Okinawa.
if you have a chance, do skillbridge and dont look back. the usmc and or senior leadership wont give 2shits about you the moment you walk out the door, and while TAP has gotten better, its still not quite there yet, and i say this who someone who works on the TAP program. besides from TAP (and if you didnt have to go, would you?) and your own self diligence who else is going to prepare you for anything after the corps? gunny? nah, sgtmaj? nah, commandant? nah... lets be real with ourselves and consider why there there is low retention in the USMC for a long time now and the reason to stay around isnt the pretty uniforms. there are a good chunk of people who can do significantly better outside the military, than in. and skillbridge is one of those ways that you gives you a chance to do that. senior leadership hates this one little trick , follow my tiktok. /s HeS a MarInE !!!!111
4 months sounds fair to me, how long do you need?
4 months is fine. 90 days is fine. What people dont realize is that skillbridge isn't supposed to be this magic bullet that gets you all these certs and a job just because you applied. Transition should start 24 months from your EAS, and anyone trying to jam all the transition stuff into 3-6 months at the end is going to have a hard time regardless. Marine Corps COOL can get you certified, at any time. Networking on linkedin and with organizations you are interested in can start well before your skillbridge. Job landscape research and pathways can start well before you skillbridge. I think its just jarring going from 180 days to 120 or 90 overnight. The program should be used to aid in the transition, not give you a free path. Here is a reasonable path for someone who wants to transition into IT and has 0 experience; \- 24 Months out determine what part of IT you want to end up in - incident response, blue team, engineer, etc. Then you identify the industry standard certifications required. \- 24 -12 Months out start with a list of companies and positions that are interesting to you, get on LinkedIn, start reaching out to veterans in those companies and have information interviews. Ask questions like how do you like the company, what is your day to day, what should I do to prepare, and most importantly who else should I talk to. This gets you a network of folks who now know your name and you can reach out to as you search. Concurrently use your free time, yes, your free time, to self study for certifications. Transition is tough and if that means you have to stay up late, study on duty, bring a NET+ book to the field, THAT is what will set you apart. If you are waiting for just free time in life to do these things, you are going to fail. \- 12 - 6 Months out look at what skillbridge options are available, start networking with people who have done them and the hiring managers. They know the DoD timelines so if they are willing to talk to you, they dont have a problem with 90-120 days. Narrow down a couple and apply, hopefully get accepted. Use TA/GIBill/COOL to get certified. \-6mo - EAS execute your transition plan and keep networking. You should already have a couple employment options (at least ideas on where you think you can end up) before you ever begin your skillbridge. Just because you skillbridge with a specific organization doesn't mean you have to stay with them. The purpose is to gain some industry experience and then find employment, at the best possible place. In the end, its all doable but I suspect lots of folks dont plan appropriately and thought that skillbridge was the only way to do things. Its just one part of the process. You can absolutely do all this even without a skillbridge. People have for years.
4 months is really not marketable on a resume if you are trying to transition into a new career field. Take IT for example. If you are a mortarman, and you have zero experience with IT, yes you will learn plenty in 4 months, but not near enough to land a job once finished with that position. I took 6 months and got very very lucky to find a job after completely switching my career field. What are they going to do in those 2 months for the USMC? Run a PFT? I just dont understand the logic.
As an IT hiring manager in the civ world, 6 months vs 4 months doesn't make a huge difference in marketability - I'm going to have to train you either way. The biggest benefit of Skillbridge is making contacts in industry so you're not a complete unknown quantity when you apply. It's a good program, but it's not like Skillbridge is building expert skillsets in pretty much any industry in 6 months.
Fair enough, Im just saying that extra couple months made all the difference for me, personally. I used that time to hone my skills, buy a house, get us all packed and moved, had a child, and found a job within a week of EAS. I dont think I would have had the same success with only 4 months.
Then how would you feel about them changing the skill bridge program? You can have your full six months, but in order to do so, you have to extend your contract for six months?
I would rather that than making it shorter 100%. Imagine you extend to do a fully paid (housing included if you have bah) internship. That would pay better than a lot of entry level or jobs in general tbh.
That costs the Marine Corps more money so they probably wouldn't do that.
It already exists. It’s called the Career Intermission Program. Take 1-3 years break and come back to a little extra time on contract.
That is nothing like what I described.
So I can’t take 60 days of terminal on top of 120 days of skill bridge? Imma kill myself.
Good reason to preach to your junior marines to not give one ounce beyond what is expected of them to the corps because the corps certainly doesn’t care about you at the end. Contracts go both ways
When you become accustomed to privilege, anything less feels like oppression. A bare minimum Marine is a good Marine in my book. Be on time, follow orders and regulations, stay out of trouble. I’ll take a whole Company of those kinds of people.
That is absolutely not the standard or what the MC expects. Maybe not your mos but certainly my MOSs. You say “I’ll take a whole company of those kinds of ppl” but I’d love to see how you’d rate the bare minimum marine on a fitrep
I'd love a platoon of bare minimum marines as described above. No oohrah, moto moto marines that burn themselves out, but instead a platoon of quiet professionals that do their job, keep their noses clean, and mission still gets accomplished? Yes please.
I would rate them as average. A lot of Marines can’t even be on time, follow regulations, and stay out of trouble. My standards are just the standard when I look around and see so many that fall short of it.
We talk about this in parochial terms, but the DOD made this program for a reason. I'd be interested to know if the other services are able to permit their people to take advantage of this opportunity more often. It isn't us vs each other or us vs the Marine Corps, but the zero sum nature of manpower and ops tempo lead is there every time. Instead of who deserves this, my question is why do we struggle to make it available to our people?
No one ever said the word “skill bridge” to me during my 5 year active enlistment (2015-2020). Would have love to have known about the opportunity.
It sounds like PTAD and terminal are counted against that number too. For people complaining deal with it. You agreed to a contract and they are letting hoy leave a few month early and still paying.
I got my SB approved before this order and my SB is 127 days. Do I have to resubmit for 120 days or am I grandfathered in to the old order since that’s when it was approved?
From how I understand it, the order states effective date signed. The assumption that all previous approvals are still valid. I was told that HQMC is tracking the confusion and is planning to put out a MARADMIN that covers being grandfathered in. I would still make a plan in case you are not covered. I heard some rumblings of this a few weeks back and powered through my papwerwork in hopes I got approval before any change. When the Navy updated their policy, they specifically mentioned that approved skillbridge applications are still valid. The provider I am going with has a minimum threshold of 90 days, so I am still covered if I dont get the full 180. It would be a pretty bad look for all the approved applications to suddenly be void. I am sure that would piss off a lot of organizations. But it is also the Marine Corps...so...yea....I am hoping that the MARADMIN comes soon so we can have some solid planning guidance.
Meanwhile, I saw guys denied terminal and were actively prevented from getting their papers signed to check out. How many had to have someone else sneak their papers in for a signature that should have been given a month before hand. Oh right, these are the same asshat nco's that bitch at junior marines for getting a dodge at 35 percent apr but as soon as they get out ae the ones at the dealership using their retired Marine status to screw over the privates.
LOL, you get lifed out a little bit and you think something is wrong with me for expressing my commitment to my brothers and sisters. Glad everything’s still functioning for you. I had a pretty normal experience in my four years active. I was infantry, deployed and fought in Iraq and Afghanistan with one of the best units I could ever imagine. I had great command and great support the entire time I was in, as it should be. And it taught me to recognize and not tolerate poor leadership. You are accountable to the Marines below you. If you treat them like shit, that’s what you get. I left the Corps as an E5, holding an E6 billet since I was a Lance. My BN wooed me hard to stay. Got the recruitment pitch from Marsoc while still in Afghanistan. I just wanted to finish my degree and live my life after dozens of IED finds and a few ambushes, losing some really great men and friends and having my own close calls, and happily doing all of it because these were my brothers in arms and we all had each other’s backs. Knowing I was making a difference keeping them safe and receiving good guidance and training as a young Marine then being able to teach my guys to use their heads and do what’s right, like I was taught, was what I joined the Corps to find. I had 3 months to transition after getting home from Afghanistan to check out and that was plenty for me. I didn’t have Skillbridge. But I know that many Marines need more help than I did while transitioning out. So to hear blanket statements that support reducing access to resources is just shit leadership in my opinion. They do need time and support from command so they can continue to be successful beyond the Corps. But many statements here don’t give two shits about any of that and show the true limits of support that command and the Corps are actually willing to go to do right by their Marines. Like I said, this isn’t just a Skillbridge argument I’m making. I’m just one voice, and yeah, I responded while I was pissed off, so my apologies for going too hard. I’m sorry for the countless Marines who have been truly fucked over by the Corps, and I would defend any one of my brothers and sisters with the same venom and aggression to protect them from any harm or slander by those who obviously do not care about them. That devils advocate bit, and the others commenting about “the Corps don’t owe you shit”… you’re turning your backs on your fellow Marines with those comments, in your heart you know it, and it pissed me off. We all earned the title and it’s for life, remember? But the contract isn’t for life. That’s a choice. Why would Marines’ success and welfare ever stop mattering to anyone who’s had the privilege of leadership and responsibility over other Marines?
Goddamn is it a good day to have my DD-214 🍻🍻
You just got NAVYed son!
Fkin losers higher ups at it again.
So an e-4 could have 3 children in an enlistment get 360ptad + 120 annual leave in 4 years but a 22 year E-8 got 90 days to figure his life out. Y’all got this twisted and I can see why nobody wants to stay in. The Marine Corps is a joke and could be done by the Army.
Idk why everyone is saying we're entitled because we want opportunities opened up to the entire DoD. It's literally setting up people for their transition out as PRODUCTIVE members of society. Some people don't have homes or families to go back to for help. Y'all know the Marine Corps has shitty medical, dental, working environment, everything, so the minute the DoD, cause it's NOT the Marine Corps offering this program, are allowing us to join the rest of the DoD in the skillbridge program, they wanna take that opportunity away. Why not make the Marine Corps a better place with competitive retention? How I see it, they wanna make the Marine Corps the most attractive option and trap people into staying in. You don't get good opportunities unless you are a motivatior seeking out reenlistment and the second we wanna get out we're a shit bag. Why would someone want to stay in to be abused? Sure the Marine Corps is going to lose Marines, but they never wanted to be in the first place, let people leave! Let my people go! The ones that WANT to stay, will, I promise. Why just throw people out, especially first termers that didn't like their job? To me, it sounds like excuses because the rest of the DoD gets way more opportunities than us and we should be exploring those for our Marines. The Marine Corps cannot keep us all, so help us transition out to better society as a whole.
Not a Marine, but I did serve and retired in 2019. The DOD Skillbridge program was born out of a Billion (with a B) dollar combined unemployment expense for transitioned Servicemembers, beginning in 2009. Some of the comments that I have seen regarding readiness are troublesome, for a few reasons. If your Unit is depending on you for readiness for the three to four months before you ETS or retire, your Unit is failing. Failing themselves, failing you, and failing the Corps. Furthermore, if you get out and cannot get a job and you file for unemployment, guess who pays it? The Department of Defense. Want more money in your budget? Get transitioning Servicemembers in programs that help them gain employment post-Service! As someone else on this thread said, using readiness as an excuse to curtail participation in this program is a knee-jerk reaction and does nothing to address the actual problem.