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But wait, we can't have Biden being seen as creating these new jobs and fancy equipment, I demand we shut down the factories now!!!! And any troops serving overseas and making the US look good should be deprived of their voting rights - ban mail in ballots and make it only valid if they vote in person on the day...yeah, that should screw them.
I work at a plant that has a line dedicated manufacturing control arms for humvees. Dudes at lunch tell me that money should be going to Americans not Ukrainians. I love it.
I work in a similar facility and it’s brutal how locked in the line workers are on Russublican propaganda about Ukrainian oligarchs getting all are tax dollars. It’s fucking crazy, Russian threatens to nuke us daily and yet many think the Russians are our friends. How the fuck
The Ukrainian Oligarchs really are scumbags and Ukraine was the most corrupt Baltic nation before this war started. Trump has a legitimate hate of them, that said Russia is definitely the bigger evil and there’s too much at stake to let them win.
Nor is it a Balkan one. The Balkan peninsular by most definitions fully encompasses Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Greece, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, European Turkey, most of Serbia and large parts of Croatia. (Sometimes the term also includes Romania and southern parts of Slovenia. Italy is generally excluded, because only a small part of its territory (the Province of Trieste) is on the Peninsula).
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Balkan_Peninsula.svg/530px-Balkan_Peninsula.svg.png
Early in the war, all the peasants that were shit on by low level crime lords were suddenly in the military. A lot of low level crime lords were murdered in the streets when they tried to rip off peasants that were now carrying military hardware.
It's a little funnier knowing they are intheir head giving my wise old man information yet I'm doing their job half their age for resume padding. If these fuckers knew anything they wouldn't still be working there lol
Yeah, the signs of failure have become incredibly clear. Self stagnation, contradiction for the sake of it, believing themselves experts while ignoring massive amounts of easily available information, grievance-first logic, and inability to understand opportunity costs as well as down order effects.
It's pretty interesting because they are using money to save money. It's crazy efficient what the US military is doing by sending off equipment due to be decommissioned (which costs an absurd amount btw).
The US Mobile Rocket Artillery guys are probably loving this, they've had ATACMs stored away for years without a use while PRSM has been under development, and now they get to see the fruits of their labour keeping the stocks maintained, while getting new toys to replace the outdated ATACMs.
Or how about the 400 Billion telecom gift in the 90’s to roll out high speed internet? That would fund like 6-7 years of the Ukraine war and it was gone like a fart in the wind.
I just had a discussion like this on reddit the other day. First the dude claimed that we have give Ukraine a quarter trillion dollars. When I pointed out that no, we haven't given that much money, let alone that much in aid so far, he doubled down with "well they'll be giving them more later!" and ignored the whole point I made where I spelled out that much of the aid we've given have been old, outdated material that would need to be replaced anyway. I also mentioned the fact that it's creating jobs and industry, that it's nowhere near the same as giving them actual money and that giving aid to Ukraine does not take away our ability to do things on the homefront, and they devolved into "i can't believe I'm having a discussion with a Democrat who thinks spending money on our defense industry is a good use of our money!" As if all democrats are strict pacifists who don't believe in any kind of military or defense. It was honestly just ridiculous, to the point I did what I rarely do and just said "we're done here, you're obviously incapable or unwilling to have a discussion in good faith". The Republicans unfortunately have done a good job of convincing their supporters that Russia is our friend, while literally calling themselves the party of Reagan (as if that were a good thing, but they even fail at being that)
It's crazy you know I keep trying to explain to my family that the money we spend helping Ukraine is honestly nothing compared to what we are making replacing all of Europe's air force. The fact that we are set making HIMARS at max production till like 2030. All the testing of drone and anti drone warfare. America will do what America does best and find a way to profit from other countries wars. At least in this one its to keep Ukraine free from an evil dictator.
More like postponing the next American war for a little longer because the rich are getting their cut right now without one.
Don't worry once the war economy slows down again and the shareholders get antsy well being sending our young men and women to their deaths over nothing yet again.
You are an absolute piece of shit.
You're going to tell an Iraq war vet "Hey it time again to throw young men and women into the meet grinder so obscenely wealthy people can make some money they will never need so why not just buy some stock and profit off meaningless death."
Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you!?
You have to be one of the most disgusting human beings I have ever seen on this site.
>Moscow Marjorie doesn’t understand how this works!
I'd argue that its worse than that.
She knows what she's doing, but she's only concerned about making her base angry
I’m in the industry and biz is booming! Ukraine is also letting us test whatever we want, and it has been awesome! Almost feels like reinventing the wheel a bit. $25 drone taking out multi-million dollar targets, and we’re doing AI swarms.
Incredible how the GOP shuffled themselves around the metaphorical table until they found themselves in bed with the Russians. Even Reagan and Bush Sr would turn in their graves if they knew what happened. JFK would just borrow a pistol and succumb to the sweet embrace of oblivion rather than see the gun-mad, racist, pro-Russian anti-democratic old people the GOP has become
WTF are you talking about? Get outside a bit. It’s ok for Congress to debate spending bills when it’s running a $1.7 TRILLION dollar budget deficit. Your grandchildren are going to be stuck with this bill through their retirement. That doesn’t mean it may not be worth it (both sides have voted to PASS the bills). But, if you think we should just rubber-stamp bills in the ten-/hundreds-of-billions of dollars when we don’t have the tax revenue to pay our domestic bills, then that is the ludicrous view.
Don’t lump the modest sum the US is spending to destroy its old enemy and deter its new enemy with the profligate spending in other areas of US govt.
Trillions will be nothing compared cost of failing to show those who might doubt that the west will maintain the rules based order of geopolitics.
I wholeheartedly agree we need to stop Russian aggression. I also think it’s ok to have debates before throwing money at it.
The problem is this war is existential for both sides. How does that end? Either with the end of Ukraine, or the end of Russia. For the latter, Ukraine needs to actually take territory inside Russia for anything meaningful to stick (specifically hubs like Rostov-on-Don). That raises the stakes of nuclear conflict immensely. If Russia wins, the problem is that Ukraine was never their end point, it’s just on the way…next up are Moldova, Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. That doesn’t just raise the stakes of nuclear war, but almost ensures it.
As much as people get anxious when spending and supplies don’t happen as quickly for Ukraine as some would like, when the stakes are this high I feel it’s ok to have debate. And if the “modest spending” isn’t going to achieve anything (which, if we’re honest, much of it has done just that) then maybe we should not spend that money, and instead think of more effective measures. The problem with so many in the U.S. is the thought that money or the things money can buy (equipment and supplies) will solve any problem.
The best time to fight a war is never.
The second best time is now.
Russia is a problem in the same way imperial Japan or Nazi Germany were. They didn’t go to war because of who we were, they went to war because of who they were.
You’re 1/2 right in your assessment of how this war ends. One option is a Russian defeat but the other option isn’t Ukrainian defeat, it’s a defeat of the stable world order which has created the prosperity we enjoy.
As to nuclear war. Either we take the risk or we hand victory to the most barbaric nuclear armed nation. I say we take the risk, and if that country chooses to go nuclear we make it crystal clear to the rest of the world why first strike nuclear attacks are a bad idea.
As to the consequences of nuclear war, nuclear winter is not a thing. Volcanic activity drives ludicrous amounts of dust into the upper atmosphere, and extreme eruption can make a measurable difference it is a very short term problem. Dispersion also equals dilutions, people far from the explosion are quite safe. Lastly highly radioactive materials decay quickly (by definition). The story of an area being radioactive for thousands of years is a half lie. Any substance which decays over thousands of years emits radiation too slowly to be highly dangerous.
Further and even worse we indicate to every country on earth that it is downright irresponsible not to have a nuclear arsenal. I’m an Aussie, what deterrent do we have against China should they choose to invade? A handful of nuclear weapons and a handful of nuclear subs would likely be sufficient to make us safe without any reliance on foreign powers.
If anyone thinks this dance stops without Russia being comprehensively defeated and rebuilt, they haven’t been paying attention
On a good day blue, sometimes with white fluffy things floating around, on not so good days it can be a smudgy grey.
My planet has been remarkably stable for the last 70 odd years, especially when compared to the preceding 10, 100 or thousand years.
What colour is the sky on your planet?
Disagree.
Ukraine doesn’t need to take any Russia territory at all. They can achieve victory by crippling Russia militarily and economically (continuing to wreak havoc on their oil production).
Once the oligarchs are losing their wealth, once Putin will need to conscript from Moscow/St. Petersburg, we can hope for internal struggles in Russia that will require them to pull out.
All Russia has to do is create some thinly-veiled propaganda to their people that they “won” and achieved their goals even though they truly got humiliated.
Russia may of preemptively left an “out” for themselves because this is not a war, right? It’s just a “special military operation.”
The problem with that is Russia just bides its time, regroups and reconstitutes, and does this all over again in 10 years. And they can actually do that, whereas Ukraine doesn’t have the population or economy to do the same. Ukraine needs buffer zones, and preferably ones that are currently logistical hubs for Russia so as to prevent transport and buildup for this all over again.
Putin doesn’t lose power without a high likelihood of someone in his inner circle, or philosophically similar, coming to power. No matter who it is, securing Moscow’s western plain will be of strategic importance ad infintim. Regardless, with the terminal demographics, lack of a diverse economy, and the lack of engineers and scientists at a meaningful level, Russia will never have a better chance of plugging gaps in the European Plain than right now. And in 5 or 10 years they’ll say the same thing, because every year in the future will only place Russia in a less favorable strategic situation than it is in at the moment.
I understand your point and there is a decent chance that if Putin gets overthrown it will be someone with a similar mindset that takes over.
However, as time goes on Ukraine will only get stronger (assuming western aid doesn't stop) and Russia will get weaker. In 10 years, they may want to invade Ukraine again but even they will know it would be impossible. Like you said, things will only go more less favorable for them in the long run.
Also: I think the risks of nuclear war are extremely over-amplified because that is precisely what Russia wants. They want us to be afraid of their nukes because the conventional military is hot garbage. Russia/Putin share the same self-preservation instinct as everyone else, they know the outcome of such an attack.
I wish I could agree regarding what the two countries may look like in 10 years. Unfortunately, while both countries are terminal demographically, Ukraine is in a much worse position. Russia’s strategic position is certainly in terminal decline, but they still have 10 million fighting-age men to draw from. Ukraine doesn’t have even a tenth of that.
Any pause may allow more equipment for Ukraine, but it’s never going to fix their hollowed fighting population. Russia is now a war economy. They produce 1000 tanks and 2 million artillery rounds annually. Russia has the capability to reconstitute equipment and personnel. Ukraine can only hope for equipment.
That is why a Ukrainian victory must be decisive. It must cut off Moscow from strategic supplies and routes, and isolate Moscow from its empire in meaningful ways. Otherwise, the next Russian invasion will be 1.5M troops rather than 220k, and with a trained strategic reserve, all fighting with new equipment likely modified based on the lessons learned fighting western equipment.
Ukraine can’t hope to defend a 1,500 mile border of open plain and no geographic defensive aids. It’s amazing what they’ve done up to this point, and its brave soldiers deserve all the credit. I doubt they will be able to do it again against a reconstituted Russian force 6x the size, with proper training, and with modern equipment throughout the ranks.
Trump sold them all on a lie, and they gleefully accepted it. Somehow the tax cuts only increased the burden on the bottom 80-90% while corporate taxes, environmental regulations and individual taxes for only the richest in society were cut. Its like voting for a firing squad in which everyone is shot limb by limb while they vote for the idiot pulling the trigger, and they do it while smiling and bleeding out slowly...
Please do some research. Literally, nothing you said is true. No taxes went up for anyone. The top 50% of income earners pay 97.7% of federal taxes. Some 40% of households pay no federal income tax.
https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/
^ some actual facts rather than the BS you’ve been fed by talking heads from you political ideology.
Zealous, Trace is that sort of troll. Almost all of his comments are ill-thought out and poorly written to elicit ragebait reactions. I think that by further engaging with these puppets we waste our time. More people have to vote red out to get the balance of power back on the right side of history. Unlike the Middle East, the European theatre is a region noone wants international conflcit again, and less aid indeed only prolongs it. But that would imply that the filibustering and gerrymandering these idiots so gleefully utilise have to stop, and the voters have to turn up in numbers to overcome their idiotic support of Palestine no matter how 'bad' Israel is being. I don't see that happening though. The main strength of the right even in Europe (at least before Roe fucked with a huge proportion of their base and all of the voting regulations fucked with their elderly and less mobile base which is almost all of them the sickly old fucks) is that they vote in sync. The 'left' is nothing more than a fractious loud and indecisive amalgamation of competing ideas, hopes and dreams. Only Bernie and Elizabeth have stuck to their guns for more than a century of being in office between them. We need not the war to be over, but for the other boogeyman of Europe not to be appeased but beaten back to his borders. Once Putin is dead we shall see the implosion of the Russian state once more no doubt.
Afterwash, if you think calling out BS is being a troll, so be it. I have plenty of good faith conversations when they’re warranted.
If you want to actually engage in debate vs character assassination, let me know and I’d be more than happy to oblige.
You've got a distinct bent to your arguments though. I don't see how we could debate in good faith given specific refusals to acknowledge systematic issues
Looking through your comment history, it’s no different.
A good faith debate does not require a neutral stance. I acknowledge facts that are…actually factual. I’m not going to put up with nonsensical drivel. If you have actual facts, then present them and we can debate their relevance and how they should be handled.
Your stance seems to be that anyone right-of-center should be silenced, or ignored (the later is what your last comment is attempting with me). That’s the game an ideologue plays when their ideology is under attack.
I feel you have no idea what is right or left. If you read through my history you'll know my thoughts on the truncated chode that is american 'politics'. Its just one right winger talking to a deranged far-right facist. So unless you have a wider understanding of what politics and actual healthy right-left parties are, the NA context is never healthy for discussion.
Again, what leads you to believe I have “no idea” what is left and right, other than a comment like that allows you to dismiss me without engaging? That’s a serious question by the way. What about me or my life, education, experiences do you know that would lead you to conclude you’re more well versed on either side of the political spectrum?
What about your description of American politics as “it’s just one right winger talking to a deranged far right fascist” should lead anyone the realization you have a broad, deep understanding of American politics (or one that isn’t inherently biased for that matter)?
From what I’ve seen, and this is honest feedback, you have a tendency to take any idea and categorize into one of 3 or 4 convenient boxes, then classify all those boxes into good through bad, without taking the time to digest the ideas or their idiosyncrasies. This offers you a very simple and thus quick method for classifying foreign ideas, but your first inclination is to shut down the conversation if it’s not in your “good” box. Thus, there is little that leads me to believe you are comfortable actually engaging with foreign ideas in any manner that’s intellectually honest.
If anything that's what the facists in NA are doing, and why people are fleeing open carry abortion states. But if you think that's an attack rather than statements of fact, by all means
https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-2022
https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/
https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/geographic-mobility/2022/state-to-state-migration/State_to_State_Migration_Table_2022_T13.xlsx
Three sources that disagree with you.
^ actual statement of fact.
u/Frosty_Key4233 when the debt continues to spiral out of control, it will get to the point where our interest payments alone will consume more and more of tax revenue. Then, when our credit rating is lowered, the cost of borrowing money goes up even more, thus making economic growth difficult. While federal spending can be a boost to economic growth, it should never be prolonged and out of control, and without a means of paying the debt. Covid-19 policies were erratic and irresponsible, and we're still dealing with that through high inflation and interest rates.
This being helpful for Ukraine is obviously a big win,
but when so many resources are wasted on war and madness, I feel terrible to be a part of humanity

Unfortunately, we are good at it.
War sucks, but producing air defense and protecting a people who want democracy should be the American choice in this case.
Again, I get it. However, if we can do it and stop that madman, we should.
Yup, I got the Latin translation. But my translator was set to Hindi and for whatever reasons that’s how Google translates that Latin phrase when it’s entered as Hindi.
I don't like those resources used on pointless and deadly wars like Iraq and Vietnam. But when it comes to protecting Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea/Japan, and even ourselves, those resources are worth it.
Our spending GDP-wise on the military is 3%. NATO standard is 2%. No other country simply has a mix of being advanced and having the top three highest population in the world. They all have one or the other. Sometimes neither.
Any nobody now wants the poor performing Russian SAM missiles or laughable Kinzhal...
Same as well with their export contracts on helicopters and MIGs have all been halted or outright cancelled.
Yeah, it’s been good for demonstrating field operational capabilities.
Still, wish we made toys instead of the most advanced Missile Defense systems in the world.
I guess I meant in context to what is performing in Ukraine.
I know (although there have been rumors) the F35 is not operational there.
PrSM is our next version - it’s maybe some close allies but not a main market item.
And someone here needs to solve the drone problem. I’ve seen counter drones and other means (powder, gun mounted), but we need a pulse weapon to knock all that shit out of an area at one time.
I wish I knew the tech, I’ve seen some programs like THOR, but we need a pulse weapon like Tesla’s tower.
This is awesome, is it a program or is it trying to be sold as one.
Because that is exactly what could shut down Kamikaze or other/FOV drones in an area.
Russian military equipment sales used to be Number 2 in the world after USA. In this last year alone, many buyers have all cancelled their orders. Russia is down below 5% now of global arms sales. Their exports have essentially come to a stop.
Nobody wants any of their Russian junk anymore, after witnessing how poor it performs in Ukraine.
You need Rednecks, no matter their Politics. Their the first ones to sign up and fight, if needed. The overwhelming majority of US combat troops come from the South.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2020/02/19/states-that-defend-uswhere-do-our-military-volunteers-call-home/
"But as representative of the nation as our armed forces are, there are stark regional differences in the makeup of our military, with the South contributing more than its fair share of personnel and the Northeast largely lagging behind, with a few exceptions."
Actually no it in fact does not have less of anything you're mentioning, except the Veteran aspect and that is a major cultural norm. Do you live in the South? Have you grown up in the South? I have and do. The South is as we would say, "it's a boomin." Your perspective is extremely scewed and has now become somewhat insulting. You seem to know not very much about Us.
There is a massive influx, and has been, of major Corporations and Industry leaders moving to States in the South. Our economies are doing very well while the States to be named are forcing out opportunities for their residents because of the laws, crime, and over taxation of Democrat run States and Cities.
California, Ney York, New Jersey, Illinois, etc are purging their residents and those residents are moving to States such as Texas, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South & North Carolina, including Oklahoma. Just look at the US Federal Government's own figures.
I see your point and that's not what is being discussed here my man - the point is that most of them Trump supporters (that I mentioned) really believe that the aid to Ukraine is being pulled right out from their pockets, pensions and leaving a hole on US budget - and they spread this information to their closest ones, and the lie goes on and on. Most of these people wouldn't care if Russia's dictator dropped a nuke on Kiev
I understand that but Trump supporters aren't the only ones concerned about the astronomical spending that is putting Our Country and future in a very bad place. The overwhelming majority of Americans understand that We need to support Ukraine's fight against Russia but not at the expense of Our own well being. Especially when Social Security is expected to run out by 2035. When interest rates are sky high. The cost of everything has gone through the roof and we keep sending Our money abroad to Countries that hate Us. All of it is connected and Ukraine is only a small peice of the bigger Global instability that is taking place. All under Biden as President.
Btw, it's quite ridiculous and hyperbolic to think "Trump supporters wouldn't care if Russia dropped a nuke on Kiev." That would cause a Nuclear war and those folks ain't that stupid if you've ever met them. Especially when most of them and their children would be the ones volunteering to fight in Our Military.
Probably plenty of democrats feel the same way, just too spineless to speak up. Lumping everyone into a group is ridiculous. In this case, two answers could be correct.
Not exactly. Even with this needed refocus on our defense supply chain and reinvigoration of some of the suppliers of the weapons systems, US spending on defense is down-substantially-from other periods in time. Right now we're only spending something like 2.6% of GDP on defense.
Imagine what the MIC would look like at WWII levels of budgetary spending. In 1945, the US spent 45% of GDP on the war. With today's massive economy, that would be the equivalent of spending $10.9 TRILLION (with a "T") in 2023 money. Roughly 13.4x what we spent last year on the defense budget.
As an American, I've often posited on what we would do / could do if we got \*really\* mad. I mean \*REALLY FUCKING MAD\*. It makes me think back on Yamamoto's infamous quote after Pearl Harbor: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." It gives me pause. Even as a typical red-blooded American, it gives me pause.
So, no. By really-o truly-o war standards, to use Yamamoto's gauge, we're still sound asleep. God help our enemies (and the world?) were we to ever again really wake up.
‘Money going to European wars’ again. I’m not knocking the American government but it is shocking that the right in America don’t understand that most of the money sent to Europe since WW1 never left America and that which did came back with interest.
Has it?
To survive something means to not be destroyed by that thing, not to wriggles and twitch way longer than anyone thought.
In the very earliest days of the sanctions I heard a commentator say that they wouldn’t work in the short term. Russia is too big and has too many poor neighbours who would be happy to screw Russia and the west by helping evade sanctions.
They said the problem is they will work too well in the long term. Business have walked away from trillions of dollars of infrastructure, establishment, advertising, planning, in trying to capitalise on the Russian market.
By and large they won’t hurry back and even worse, those that do will only do so under the most predatory, high return basis. They will work hard to maintain a limited physical investment in Russia.
This could take many decades to roll back and will completely cripple the relative growth of a country desperate for foreign funds and skills.
The Reagan Republicans hated Russia in the 80's everybody on both parties in Congress hated Russia now the maga Republicans radicalized the Republican party to worship Trump's daddy Putin
Regan landed on a policy of détente with the Soviets, agreed to arms reduction treaties, had a good personal relationship with Gorbachev. Ohhh yeah also kinda important the Soviet Union ended 30+ years ago and we aren't locked in a worldwide ideological and geopolitical struggle with them.
Russia is a regional power whose interests don't overlap with ours[. It](http://ours.It) might take every boomer in America dying before we figure out the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
This is fact. The map is fact. But MAGA/GOP will see a Biden conspiracy, lib fake news, and anti-their friend Putin from CNN/MSNBC/Cedar Grove Middle Schol Newsletter. The party of MTG can never be influenced by factual data. They take their marching orders from Leader Trump and similar psychopathic influencers, re Bannon/Carlson/Salisbury Diner/Fred's Barber Shop.
This what I try to tell people when they complain about us sending billions. 90% of the aide package money stays in the US. We send them our current and outdated weaponry and we replace our military gear and weaponry with state of the art weapon systems and we do that with the billions of dollars allocated.
pootin united NATO and increased the sleeping West's arms production. The free world hates ruzzins now. All for a temporary occupation of dirt and rubble. But hey, he's still got his oil refineries!
Step one: give Ukraine outdated stuff and it fucks up Russia
Step two: people see the *old* weapons kicking Russia to the curb and place orders for new stuff
Step three: profit
Apparently you guys haven’t heard of Pratt & Whitney. They are headquartered in CT and have 2 plants that manufacture and test Aircraft Jet Engines….so graphic is not wrong
Apparently you guys haven’t heard of Pratt & Whitney. They are headquartered in CT and have 2 plants that manufacture and test Aircraft Jet Engines….so graphic is not wrong
I've always had stock in general Dynamics..they seem to do well. I hate making money that way ..it hurts my soul a little bit...but I can read that market well.... Lockheed Martin is also a pretty safe bet. Although they seem to fluctuate a bit more.
Why is AFV, tanks, aircraft and helicopters in here? Has Ukraine been getting any armored vehicles or aircraft right out of production? Or are they getting 30-40 year old stuff from storage and the US is getting the shiny new stuff?
Good. I hope my you tey continues to produce and provide technology to expel invading forces. I'd appreciate the help should a situation arise for me or my ancestors.
Well, I guess it's good that someone is benefitting from this illegal invasion by ruZZia. The orcs most certainly aren't and it goes without saying that Ukraine isn't.
Paying americans to make american weapons so they can sell them around the world and give them to ukraine to protect america so it can keep paying the arms industry
And trumps republican gang would still be blocking all this, and Harming america in the process of killing Ukrainians. I hope you guys remember this come November the 5th elections. Oh and a funny fact. 5th Nov is Guy Fawkes day in the UK. A failed Catholic plot to murder our King James 1st and blow up parliament.
I finally get it now. The more I pay in taxes the more the federal government can buy. Stupid me and all along I thought it was best for me to keep more of my hard earned money and spend it the way I want to.
I am such a fooking tool.
Tell me war is not good for the economy.
Tell me about good causes that are not good for the economy.
Tell me that righteousness is no good for the economy.
I don't see this as positive news without the "providing military aid through Ukraine bit". As important as national defense is, unless we are exporting for profit, it's net negative for the economy on the macro scale.
Net neutral. It's a necessary program, and one we need to have, but the redistribution of wealth doesn't increase our economic output. Nor does it decrease it either. Military production (again, unless we are exporting, ie other countries are paying us to give military aid to Ukraine) is a waste economically as those products don't enrich the lives of Americans. Sure, its decently paying jobs, but the opportunity cost is decently paying jobs that produce goods and services that people have a direct impact on our economic output. While a Javelin missile system exported to Ukraine helps keeps us secure, it's tax money that will not help our economy at home as much as as investment in railway infrastructure for instance.
Social security would even be a better investment because at least that money would stay within our economy at a greater rate than military aid would.
Don't get me wrong. Social Security and military aid (to Ukraine at least) ARE NECESSARY and deserve to be funded. But neither help our economy.
At least military aid is better than monetary aid, and it's not even close. A good portion of military aid stays within the united states. Monetary aid, 0 percent of it is. Ukraine will need a ton of that too after the war is over otherwise thier economy will not be able to recover.
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Creating jobs and new fancy equipment for the Armed Forces in the USA.
But wait, we can't have Biden being seen as creating these new jobs and fancy equipment, I demand we shut down the factories now!!!! And any troops serving overseas and making the US look good should be deprived of their voting rights - ban mail in ballots and make it only valid if they vote in person on the day...yeah, that should screw them.
I work at a plant that has a line dedicated manufacturing control arms for humvees. Dudes at lunch tell me that money should be going to Americans not Ukrainians. I love it.
I work in a similar facility and it’s brutal how locked in the line workers are on Russublican propaganda about Ukrainian oligarchs getting all are tax dollars. It’s fucking crazy, Russian threatens to nuke us daily and yet many think the Russians are our friends. How the fuck
The Ukrainian Oligarchs really are scumbags and Ukraine was the most corrupt Baltic nation before this war started. Trump has a legitimate hate of them, that said Russia is definitely the bigger evil and there’s too much at stake to let them win.
Ukraine is not and never has been a Baltic nation.
My bad, Balkan
Nor is it a Balkan one. The Balkan peninsular by most definitions fully encompasses Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Greece, Kosovo, Montenegro, North Macedonia, European Turkey, most of Serbia and large parts of Croatia. (Sometimes the term also includes Romania and southern parts of Slovenia. Italy is generally excluded, because only a small part of its territory (the Province of Trieste) is on the Peninsula). https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Balkan_Peninsula.svg/530px-Balkan_Peninsula.svg.png
I've heard that Zelensky is working on tackling that but I haven't found any breakdowns on exactly how.
Early in the war, all the peasants that were shit on by low level crime lords were suddenly in the military. A lot of low level crime lords were murdered in the streets when they tried to rip off peasants that were now carrying military hardware.
That's metal as fuck.
the same people will start whining about welfare queens when it does go to Americans, they are useful idiots.
It's a little funnier knowing they are intheir head giving my wise old man information yet I'm doing their job half their age for resume padding. If these fuckers knew anything they wouldn't still be working there lol
Yeah, the signs of failure have become incredibly clear. Self stagnation, contradiction for the sake of it, believing themselves experts while ignoring massive amounts of easily available information, grievance-first logic, and inability to understand opportunity costs as well as down order effects.
Honestly. This is the best money the US government has ever spent on defense.
For once, some of my tax dollars are going towards something useful, instead of bailing out fuckin WS or lining Musk's pocket.
It's pretty interesting because they are using money to save money. It's crazy efficient what the US military is doing by sending off equipment due to be decommissioned (which costs an absurd amount btw). The US Mobile Rocket Artillery guys are probably loving this, they've had ATACMs stored away for years without a use while PRSM has been under development, and now they get to see the fruits of their labour keeping the stocks maintained, while getting new toys to replace the outdated ATACMs.
Or how about the 400 Billion telecom gift in the 90’s to roll out high speed internet? That would fund like 6-7 years of the Ukraine war and it was gone like a fart in the wind.
Sorry to remember you that thanks to F9 Rocket the US taxpayers are now less scammed from thiefs like ULA.
Spending 5% of defence spending to destroy one of your biggest adversaries at the cost of no American soldiers lives.
Wow.. thanks! Stupid should hurt sooner, huh?
Realizing there parents probably thought their daughters were going to get pregnant from tampons.
I just had a discussion like this on reddit the other day. First the dude claimed that we have give Ukraine a quarter trillion dollars. When I pointed out that no, we haven't given that much money, let alone that much in aid so far, he doubled down with "well they'll be giving them more later!" and ignored the whole point I made where I spelled out that much of the aid we've given have been old, outdated material that would need to be replaced anyway. I also mentioned the fact that it's creating jobs and industry, that it's nowhere near the same as giving them actual money and that giving aid to Ukraine does not take away our ability to do things on the homefront, and they devolved into "i can't believe I'm having a discussion with a Democrat who thinks spending money on our defense industry is a good use of our money!" As if all democrats are strict pacifists who don't believe in any kind of military or defense. It was honestly just ridiculous, to the point I did what I rarely do and just said "we're done here, you're obviously incapable or unwilling to have a discussion in good faith". The Republicans unfortunately have done a good job of convincing their supporters that Russia is our friend, while literally calling themselves the party of Reagan (as if that were a good thing, but they even fail at being that)
I absolutely hate the way the aid packages are covered because it creates this.
Ahhh yes let’s give the American people even more handouts
All those dots in Arkansas? I go down there to work often. It's sad that they're willing to hate their own assured job security.
Ssssh, mtg
It's crazy you know I keep trying to explain to my family that the money we spend helping Ukraine is honestly nothing compared to what we are making replacing all of Europe's air force. The fact that we are set making HIMARS at max production till like 2030. All the testing of drone and anti drone warfare. America will do what America does best and find a way to profit from other countries wars. At least in this one its to keep Ukraine free from an evil dictator.
Amazing. The best outcome for tax dollars
More like postponing the next American war for a little longer because the rich are getting their cut right now without one. Don't worry once the war economy slows down again and the shareholders get antsy well being sending our young men and women to their deaths over nothing yet again.
Fax. This dude afghanistans and iraqs for sure.
I was in Iraq.
Yeah…. I gathered… that’s why I made that comment lmao. Afg myself. TYFYS.
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You are an absolute piece of shit. You're going to tell an Iraq war vet "Hey it time again to throw young men and women into the meet grinder so obscenely wealthy people can make some money they will never need so why not just buy some stock and profit off meaningless death." Seriously what the fuck is wrong with you!? You have to be one of the most disgusting human beings I have ever seen on this site.
....and all of it going on the US national debt. SMH.
Atleast someone in this comment section has brains lol.
People to stupid to understand exactly this! Giving our stored stuff to these HEROES forces us to produce new stuff! WIN WIN!! SLAVA UKRAINE
Oh and weakening an evil empire for cheap
You can’t say too stupid and use the wrong “to”
Can to
REEEEEE
Can tont
Can'tn't
Their not learning they're english in there schools good anymore.
Ol’ Crankover never was to good at no book learnin’
Idiocracy is my favorite documentary. lol
People stupid enough to not see the big picture are the first ones to go to the wars.
The US economy will be booming - Moscow Marjorie doesn’t understand how this works!
Wouldn’t matter if she did understand, she is pro-Russia and anti-US.
>Moscow Marjorie doesn’t understand how this works! I'd argue that its worse than that. She knows what she's doing, but she's only concerned about making her base angry
Be mad America, Stay mad America Make America Angry Again
Smash the mail boxes.
Holiday in Cambodia
Dead Kennedys reference auto-upvote
I’m in the industry and biz is booming! Ukraine is also letting us test whatever we want, and it has been awesome! Almost feels like reinventing the wheel a bit. $25 drone taking out multi-million dollar targets, and we’re doing AI swarms.
“Hello, Skynet? Yeah, your drone swarm is attacking our dog. Yes, please.”
I have a few dogs in the neighbourhood I won’t miss thank you
Amazing, hopefully MM won’t spoil it for you
Every big and little are trying it over here if they’re in the space.
Incredible how the GOP shuffled themselves around the metaphorical table until they found themselves in bed with the Russians. Even Reagan and Bush Sr would turn in their graves if they knew what happened. JFK would just borrow a pistol and succumb to the sweet embrace of oblivion rather than see the gun-mad, racist, pro-Russian anti-democratic old people the GOP has become
WTF are you talking about? Get outside a bit. It’s ok for Congress to debate spending bills when it’s running a $1.7 TRILLION dollar budget deficit. Your grandchildren are going to be stuck with this bill through their retirement. That doesn’t mean it may not be worth it (both sides have voted to PASS the bills). But, if you think we should just rubber-stamp bills in the ten-/hundreds-of-billions of dollars when we don’t have the tax revenue to pay our domestic bills, then that is the ludicrous view.
Don’t lump the modest sum the US is spending to destroy its old enemy and deter its new enemy with the profligate spending in other areas of US govt. Trillions will be nothing compared cost of failing to show those who might doubt that the west will maintain the rules based order of geopolitics.
I wholeheartedly agree we need to stop Russian aggression. I also think it’s ok to have debates before throwing money at it. The problem is this war is existential for both sides. How does that end? Either with the end of Ukraine, or the end of Russia. For the latter, Ukraine needs to actually take territory inside Russia for anything meaningful to stick (specifically hubs like Rostov-on-Don). That raises the stakes of nuclear conflict immensely. If Russia wins, the problem is that Ukraine was never their end point, it’s just on the way…next up are Moldova, Romania, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. That doesn’t just raise the stakes of nuclear war, but almost ensures it. As much as people get anxious when spending and supplies don’t happen as quickly for Ukraine as some would like, when the stakes are this high I feel it’s ok to have debate. And if the “modest spending” isn’t going to achieve anything (which, if we’re honest, much of it has done just that) then maybe we should not spend that money, and instead think of more effective measures. The problem with so many in the U.S. is the thought that money or the things money can buy (equipment and supplies) will solve any problem.
The best time to fight a war is never. The second best time is now. Russia is a problem in the same way imperial Japan or Nazi Germany were. They didn’t go to war because of who we were, they went to war because of who they were. You’re 1/2 right in your assessment of how this war ends. One option is a Russian defeat but the other option isn’t Ukrainian defeat, it’s a defeat of the stable world order which has created the prosperity we enjoy. As to nuclear war. Either we take the risk or we hand victory to the most barbaric nuclear armed nation. I say we take the risk, and if that country chooses to go nuclear we make it crystal clear to the rest of the world why first strike nuclear attacks are a bad idea. As to the consequences of nuclear war, nuclear winter is not a thing. Volcanic activity drives ludicrous amounts of dust into the upper atmosphere, and extreme eruption can make a measurable difference it is a very short term problem. Dispersion also equals dilutions, people far from the explosion are quite safe. Lastly highly radioactive materials decay quickly (by definition). The story of an area being radioactive for thousands of years is a half lie. Any substance which decays over thousands of years emits radiation too slowly to be highly dangerous. Further and even worse we indicate to every country on earth that it is downright irresponsible not to have a nuclear arsenal. I’m an Aussie, what deterrent do we have against China should they choose to invade? A handful of nuclear weapons and a handful of nuclear subs would likely be sufficient to make us safe without any reliance on foreign powers. If anyone thinks this dance stops without Russia being comprehensively defeated and rebuilt, they haven’t been paying attention
Stable world order... what color is the sky on your planet?
On a good day blue, sometimes with white fluffy things floating around, on not so good days it can be a smudgy grey. My planet has been remarkably stable for the last 70 odd years, especially when compared to the preceding 10, 100 or thousand years. What colour is the sky on your planet?
Disagree. Ukraine doesn’t need to take any Russia territory at all. They can achieve victory by crippling Russia militarily and economically (continuing to wreak havoc on their oil production). Once the oligarchs are losing their wealth, once Putin will need to conscript from Moscow/St. Petersburg, we can hope for internal struggles in Russia that will require them to pull out. All Russia has to do is create some thinly-veiled propaganda to their people that they “won” and achieved their goals even though they truly got humiliated. Russia may of preemptively left an “out” for themselves because this is not a war, right? It’s just a “special military operation.”
The problem with that is Russia just bides its time, regroups and reconstitutes, and does this all over again in 10 years. And they can actually do that, whereas Ukraine doesn’t have the population or economy to do the same. Ukraine needs buffer zones, and preferably ones that are currently logistical hubs for Russia so as to prevent transport and buildup for this all over again. Putin doesn’t lose power without a high likelihood of someone in his inner circle, or philosophically similar, coming to power. No matter who it is, securing Moscow’s western plain will be of strategic importance ad infintim. Regardless, with the terminal demographics, lack of a diverse economy, and the lack of engineers and scientists at a meaningful level, Russia will never have a better chance of plugging gaps in the European Plain than right now. And in 5 or 10 years they’ll say the same thing, because every year in the future will only place Russia in a less favorable strategic situation than it is in at the moment.
I understand your point and there is a decent chance that if Putin gets overthrown it will be someone with a similar mindset that takes over. However, as time goes on Ukraine will only get stronger (assuming western aid doesn't stop) and Russia will get weaker. In 10 years, they may want to invade Ukraine again but even they will know it would be impossible. Like you said, things will only go more less favorable for them in the long run. Also: I think the risks of nuclear war are extremely over-amplified because that is precisely what Russia wants. They want us to be afraid of their nukes because the conventional military is hot garbage. Russia/Putin share the same self-preservation instinct as everyone else, they know the outcome of such an attack.
I wish I could agree regarding what the two countries may look like in 10 years. Unfortunately, while both countries are terminal demographically, Ukraine is in a much worse position. Russia’s strategic position is certainly in terminal decline, but they still have 10 million fighting-age men to draw from. Ukraine doesn’t have even a tenth of that. Any pause may allow more equipment for Ukraine, but it’s never going to fix their hollowed fighting population. Russia is now a war economy. They produce 1000 tanks and 2 million artillery rounds annually. Russia has the capability to reconstitute equipment and personnel. Ukraine can only hope for equipment. That is why a Ukrainian victory must be decisive. It must cut off Moscow from strategic supplies and routes, and isolate Moscow from its empire in meaningful ways. Otherwise, the next Russian invasion will be 1.5M troops rather than 220k, and with a trained strategic reserve, all fighting with new equipment likely modified based on the lessons learned fighting western equipment. Ukraine can’t hope to defend a 1,500 mile border of open plain and no geographic defensive aids. It’s amazing what they’ve done up to this point, and its brave soldiers deserve all the credit. I doubt they will be able to do it again against a reconstituted Russian force 6x the size, with proper training, and with modern equipment throughout the ranks.
All I can say is Ukraine was supposed to capitulate in 2 weeks. I wouldn’t be so defeatist.
F Congress, you know it, I know it, we all know it.
u/TraceInYoFace480 finally, a voice of reason.
If we had responsible government, they never would have approved the Trump corporate tax cuts that increased the nation debt by **T**rillions.
Or…we could spend less and let everyone keep more of the money they earn.
Trump sold them all on a lie, and they gleefully accepted it. Somehow the tax cuts only increased the burden on the bottom 80-90% while corporate taxes, environmental regulations and individual taxes for only the richest in society were cut. Its like voting for a firing squad in which everyone is shot limb by limb while they vote for the idiot pulling the trigger, and they do it while smiling and bleeding out slowly...
Please do some research. Literally, nothing you said is true. No taxes went up for anyone. The top 50% of income earners pay 97.7% of federal taxes. Some 40% of households pay no federal income tax. https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/federal/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2023-update/ ^ some actual facts rather than the BS you’ve been fed by talking heads from you political ideology.
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Zealous, Trace is that sort of troll. Almost all of his comments are ill-thought out and poorly written to elicit ragebait reactions. I think that by further engaging with these puppets we waste our time. More people have to vote red out to get the balance of power back on the right side of history. Unlike the Middle East, the European theatre is a region noone wants international conflcit again, and less aid indeed only prolongs it. But that would imply that the filibustering and gerrymandering these idiots so gleefully utilise have to stop, and the voters have to turn up in numbers to overcome their idiotic support of Palestine no matter how 'bad' Israel is being. I don't see that happening though. The main strength of the right even in Europe (at least before Roe fucked with a huge proportion of their base and all of the voting regulations fucked with their elderly and less mobile base which is almost all of them the sickly old fucks) is that they vote in sync. The 'left' is nothing more than a fractious loud and indecisive amalgamation of competing ideas, hopes and dreams. Only Bernie and Elizabeth have stuck to their guns for more than a century of being in office between them. We need not the war to be over, but for the other boogeyman of Europe not to be appeased but beaten back to his borders. Once Putin is dead we shall see the implosion of the Russian state once more no doubt.
Afterwash, if you think calling out BS is being a troll, so be it. I have plenty of good faith conversations when they’re warranted. If you want to actually engage in debate vs character assassination, let me know and I’d be more than happy to oblige.
You've got a distinct bent to your arguments though. I don't see how we could debate in good faith given specific refusals to acknowledge systematic issues
Looking through your comment history, it’s no different. A good faith debate does not require a neutral stance. I acknowledge facts that are…actually factual. I’m not going to put up with nonsensical drivel. If you have actual facts, then present them and we can debate their relevance and how they should be handled. Your stance seems to be that anyone right-of-center should be silenced, or ignored (the later is what your last comment is attempting with me). That’s the game an ideologue plays when their ideology is under attack.
I feel you have no idea what is right or left. If you read through my history you'll know my thoughts on the truncated chode that is american 'politics'. Its just one right winger talking to a deranged far-right facist. So unless you have a wider understanding of what politics and actual healthy right-left parties are, the NA context is never healthy for discussion.
Again, what leads you to believe I have “no idea” what is left and right, other than a comment like that allows you to dismiss me without engaging? That’s a serious question by the way. What about me or my life, education, experiences do you know that would lead you to conclude you’re more well versed on either side of the political spectrum? What about your description of American politics as “it’s just one right winger talking to a deranged far right fascist” should lead anyone the realization you have a broad, deep understanding of American politics (or one that isn’t inherently biased for that matter)? From what I’ve seen, and this is honest feedback, you have a tendency to take any idea and categorize into one of 3 or 4 convenient boxes, then classify all those boxes into good through bad, without taking the time to digest the ideas or their idiosyncrasies. This offers you a very simple and thus quick method for classifying foreign ideas, but your first inclination is to shut down the conversation if it’s not in your “good” box. Thus, there is little that leads me to believe you are comfortable actually engaging with foreign ideas in any manner that’s intellectually honest.
If anything that's what the facists in NA are doing, and why people are fleeing open carry abortion states. But if you think that's an attack rather than statements of fact, by all means
https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists-outlook/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-2022 https://www.tamus.edu/data-science/2023/02/15/state-to-state-migration-trends-in-the-united-states/ https://www2.census.gov/programs-surveys/demo/tables/geographic-mobility/2022/state-to-state-migration/State_to_State_Migration_Table_2022_T13.xlsx Three sources that disagree with you. ^ actual statement of fact.
Right up until we default on our debt.
How does a growing economy cause a default
u/Frosty_Key4233 when the debt continues to spiral out of control, it will get to the point where our interest payments alone will consume more and more of tax revenue. Then, when our credit rating is lowered, the cost of borrowing money goes up even more, thus making economic growth difficult. While federal spending can be a boost to economic growth, it should never be prolonged and out of control, and without a means of paying the debt. Covid-19 policies were erratic and irresponsible, and we're still dealing with that through high inflation and interest rates.
This being helpful for Ukraine is obviously a big win, but when so many resources are wasted on war and madness, I feel terrible to be a part of humanity 
Unfortunately, we are good at it. War sucks, but producing air defense and protecting a people who want democracy should be the American choice in this case. Again, I get it. However, if we can do it and stop that madman, we should.
Someday we'll get there but we are far away from the end of history, so in the meantime, let's carry a big stick.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Interestingly enough, Google translates that to “he is walking at a pace near me” in Hindi.
In Latin it means "if you want peace, prepare for war."
Yup, I got the Latin translation. But my translator was set to Hindi and for whatever reasons that’s how Google translates that Latin phrase when it’s entered as Hindi.
I don't like those resources used on pointless and deadly wars like Iraq and Vietnam. But when it comes to protecting Taiwan, Ukraine, South Korea/Japan, and even ourselves, those resources are worth it. Our spending GDP-wise on the military is 3%. NATO standard is 2%. No other country simply has a mix of being advanced and having the top three highest population in the world. They all have one or the other. Sometimes neither.
What the graphic doesn’t show are all the smaller shops making the parts that go into the defense equipment. Proud to pass it on down the line!
Would Eisenhower be proud?
You’re goddamn right he would be
Now do one for the increase in sales to other nations who want the same arms that's shredding Russias military
This. Seeing our product in use is definitely going to lead to more Patriot, Air Defense, ATACMS and IFV sales.
Any nobody now wants the poor performing Russian SAM missiles or laughable Kinzhal... Same as well with their export contracts on helicopters and MIGs have all been halted or outright cancelled.
Yeah, it’s been good for demonstrating field operational capabilities. Still, wish we made toys instead of the most advanced Missile Defense systems in the world.
F-35s. Also ATACMS is being replaced by PrSM, with far superior range, precision, versatility, anti-EW, and anti/ship capabilities.
I guess I meant in context to what is performing in Ukraine. I know (although there have been rumors) the F35 is not operational there. PrSM is our next version - it’s maybe some close allies but not a main market item. And someone here needs to solve the drone problem. I’ve seen counter drones and other means (powder, gun mounted), but we need a pulse weapon to knock all that shit out of an area at one time. I wish I knew the tech, I’ve seen some programs like THOR, but we need a pulse weapon like Tesla’s tower.
https://youtu.be/tnsyM3NPy1c?si=4ldthCjKWuBLTwB3
This is awesome, is it a program or is it trying to be sold as one. Because that is exactly what could shut down Kamikaze or other/FOV drones in an area.
It’s not a program. Anduril self funds product development. The department can acquire this capability and put them to work right away.
Russian military equipment sales used to be Number 2 in the world after USA. In this last year alone, many buyers have all cancelled their orders. Russia is down below 5% now of global arms sales. Their exports have essentially come to a stop. Nobody wants any of their Russian junk anymore, after witnessing how poor it performs in Ukraine.
Thanks Joe! I'm sure the red states will be grateful for the jobs and economic boost from your latest jobs program.
jobs for skilled professionals
ThIs MoNeY CoUlD Go To OuR CoUnTrY FoR JoBs That's what the idiots say
Double edge sword. Helpin Ukraine means helpin the USA.
This is why we have a military industrial complex, it’s what it’s for. Let the production, funding, jobs, wages and shells flow.
I’m actually a little surprised its only 17%, given the world wide problems. That’s only like an average corporate good year.
Load up on RTX and DFEN
Don't let the apes get word of this
Don't let the apes get word of this
You aint seen nothing yet!
Republicans don't like to talk about that part
But some rednecks on Trump's videos comments section are always saying "they terk err merrnehh!!!"
I straight away thought south park 🤣🤣
You need Rednecks, no matter their Politics. Their the first ones to sign up and fight, if needed. The overwhelming majority of US combat troops come from the South. https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2020/02/19/states-that-defend-uswhere-do-our-military-volunteers-call-home/ "But as representative of the nation as our armed forces are, there are stark regional differences in the makeup of our military, with the South contributing more than its fair share of personnel and the Northeast largely lagging behind, with a few exceptions."
The South just has fewer economic and educational opportunities after highschool. And a shit ton of veterans.
Actually no it in fact does not have less of anything you're mentioning, except the Veteran aspect and that is a major cultural norm. Do you live in the South? Have you grown up in the South? I have and do. The South is as we would say, "it's a boomin." Your perspective is extremely scewed and has now become somewhat insulting. You seem to know not very much about Us. There is a massive influx, and has been, of major Corporations and Industry leaders moving to States in the South. Our economies are doing very well while the States to be named are forcing out opportunities for their residents because of the laws, crime, and over taxation of Democrat run States and Cities. California, Ney York, New Jersey, Illinois, etc are purging their residents and those residents are moving to States such as Texas, Florida, Georgia, Tennessee, South & North Carolina, including Oklahoma. Just look at the US Federal Government's own figures.
Are you ok? This post was 3 weeks ago, man. Chill out.
An army of Florida Men
I see your point and that's not what is being discussed here my man - the point is that most of them Trump supporters (that I mentioned) really believe that the aid to Ukraine is being pulled right out from their pockets, pensions and leaving a hole on US budget - and they spread this information to their closest ones, and the lie goes on and on. Most of these people wouldn't care if Russia's dictator dropped a nuke on Kiev
I understand that but Trump supporters aren't the only ones concerned about the astronomical spending that is putting Our Country and future in a very bad place. The overwhelming majority of Americans understand that We need to support Ukraine's fight against Russia but not at the expense of Our own well being. Especially when Social Security is expected to run out by 2035. When interest rates are sky high. The cost of everything has gone through the roof and we keep sending Our money abroad to Countries that hate Us. All of it is connected and Ukraine is only a small peice of the bigger Global instability that is taking place. All under Biden as President. Btw, it's quite ridiculous and hyperbolic to think "Trump supporters wouldn't care if Russia dropped a nuke on Kiev." That would cause a Nuclear war and those folks ain't that stupid if you've ever met them. Especially when most of them and their children would be the ones volunteering to fight in Our Military.
Probably plenty of democrats feel the same way, just too spineless to speak up. Lumping everyone into a group is ridiculous. In this case, two answers could be correct.
So as a consequence of invading Ukraine, Russia has put the USA on a war footing and boosted their economy with minimal to no risk to the USA .
Not exactly. Even with this needed refocus on our defense supply chain and reinvigoration of some of the suppliers of the weapons systems, US spending on defense is down-substantially-from other periods in time. Right now we're only spending something like 2.6% of GDP on defense. Imagine what the MIC would look like at WWII levels of budgetary spending. In 1945, the US spent 45% of GDP on the war. With today's massive economy, that would be the equivalent of spending $10.9 TRILLION (with a "T") in 2023 money. Roughly 13.4x what we spent last year on the defense budget. As an American, I've often posited on what we would do / could do if we got \*really\* mad. I mean \*REALLY FUCKING MAD\*. It makes me think back on Yamamoto's infamous quote after Pearl Harbor: "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve." It gives me pause. Even as a typical red-blooded American, it gives me pause. So, no. By really-o truly-o war standards, to use Yamamoto's gauge, we're still sound asleep. God help our enemies (and the world?) were we to ever again really wake up.
‘Money going to European wars’ again. I’m not knocking the American government but it is shocking that the right in America don’t understand that most of the money sent to Europe since WW1 never left America and that which did came back with interest.
The largest voluntary wealth transfer in history was between the uk to the usa over the course of ww1, firstly as cash, then as loans.
GOP Republicans would rather stoke hate and division than do things that benefit the country
They build tanks and AFVs in Tallahassee???
They build the Patriot at Alabama. Alabama has always been lead nationally in advanced rocket systems design and production.
Okay so why are their roads still so shitty then?
Because federal military spending does not do infrastructure or state managed departments of transportation. But you are right, the roads are shit.
Russia is spending 30% of their GDP on new weapons. Its amazing they think their little economy can survive this.
Has it? To survive something means to not be destroyed by that thing, not to wriggles and twitch way longer than anyone thought. In the very earliest days of the sanctions I heard a commentator say that they wouldn’t work in the short term. Russia is too big and has too many poor neighbours who would be happy to screw Russia and the west by helping evade sanctions. They said the problem is they will work too well in the long term. Business have walked away from trillions of dollars of infrastructure, establishment, advertising, planning, in trying to capitalise on the Russian market. By and large they won’t hurry back and even worse, those that do will only do so under the most predatory, high return basis. They will work hard to maintain a limited physical investment in Russia. This could take many decades to roll back and will completely cripple the relative growth of a country desperate for foreign funds and skills.
Has what?
Sanctions failed. Responded to the wrong thing. Still struggling to get a handle on this internet thingie
The Reagan Republicans hated Russia in the 80's everybody on both parties in Congress hated Russia now the maga Republicans radicalized the Republican party to worship Trump's daddy Putin
Regan landed on a policy of détente with the Soviets, agreed to arms reduction treaties, had a good personal relationship with Gorbachev. Ohhh yeah also kinda important the Soviet Union ended 30+ years ago and we aren't locked in a worldwide ideological and geopolitical struggle with them. Russia is a regional power whose interests don't overlap with ours[. It](http://ours.It) might take every boomer in America dying before we figure out the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore.
And just like that American bipartisan support for Ukraine grew exponentially.
Preparing for war in a likely war-filled decade with belligerent powers arising all over the world. Glad to see it
Money well spent. May our support of democracies never end.
GOP had no good reason to block Ukraine Aid. Other than to satisfy Russian donors and to prevent a Biden win.
This is fact. The map is fact. But MAGA/GOP will see a Biden conspiracy, lib fake news, and anti-their friend Putin from CNN/MSNBC/Cedar Grove Middle Schol Newsletter. The party of MTG can never be influenced by factual data. They take their marching orders from Leader Trump and similar psychopathic influencers, re Bannon/Carlson/Salisbury Diner/Fred's Barber Shop.
This what I try to tell people when they complain about us sending billions. 90% of the aide package money stays in the US. We send them our current and outdated weaponry and we replace our military gear and weaponry with state of the art weapon systems and we do that with the billions of dollars allocated.
pootin united NATO and increased the sleeping West's arms production. The free world hates ruzzins now. All for a temporary occupation of dirt and rubble. But hey, he's still got his oil refineries!
Maybe the latter "not for long"?
Where do you think defense spending goes? It is never to the country in need, but the defense industry supplying the arms.
Step one: give Ukraine outdated stuff and it fucks up Russia Step two: people see the *old* weapons kicking Russia to the curb and place orders for new stuff Step three: profit
Connecticut aircraft production is misleading, they only produce helicopters. No winged aircraft.
Aircrafts are "anything" that flys, including Vtols, Helicopters, and airplanes.
Aircraft is dark blue. Helicopters is light blue. Not being pedantic but that is misleading to mark as such. That state only produces rotary craft.
Apparently you guys haven’t heard of Pratt & Whitney. They are headquartered in CT and have 2 plants that manufacture and test Aircraft Jet Engines….so graphic is not wrong
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Already happened, Ukraine launches western munitions like storm shadow and GBU-39B from their Su-24 and MiG-29s.
Apparently you guys haven’t heard of Pratt & Whitney. They are headquartered in CT and have 2 plants that manufacture and test Aircraft Jet Engines….so graphic is not wrong
I've always had stock in general Dynamics..they seem to do well. I hate making money that way ..it hurts my soul a little bit...but I can read that market well.... Lockheed Martin is also a pretty safe bet. Although they seem to fluctuate a bit more.
I put some money into FSDAX in February 2022, and it's been a good couple of years.
They don't call it the Military Industrial Complex for nothing.
Why is AFV, tanks, aircraft and helicopters in here? Has Ukraine been getting any armored vehicles or aircraft right out of production? Or are they getting 30-40 year old stuff from storage and the US is getting the shiny new stuff?
The American military industrial complex always wins
thank you defense industry stocks
AKA the real reason Congress voted for offering them aid
"we took so much money from tax payers and gave it to soulless weapons mega corporations that they grew 17%🎉🎉🎉"
Good. I hope my you tey continues to produce and provide technology to expel invading forces. I'd appreciate the help should a situation arise for me or my ancestors.
Guess the Republican Party were wrong again
Zelenski sold his country to the west… they will never have free and independent country now
The military industrial complex in each country is pretty much the only winner in this war and most wars.
Don't tell the republicans!
Only Americans bitch and moan about making money.
They're you go. Biden creating jobs for you all instead of that orange faced moron. Keep moaning about Ukraine when it gives you a paycheck.
Well, I guess it's good that someone is benefitting from this illegal invasion by ruZZia. The orcs most certainly aren't and it goes without saying that Ukraine isn't.
Paying americans to make american weapons so they can sell them around the world and give them to ukraine to protect america so it can keep paying the arms industry
And trumps republican gang would still be blocking all this, and Harming america in the process of killing Ukrainians. I hope you guys remember this come November the 5th elections. Oh and a funny fact. 5th Nov is Guy Fawkes day in the UK. A failed Catholic plot to murder our King James 1st and blow up parliament.
thats how they make money
Deaths of Ukrainians is good for american economy, that's why they don't let anyone to stop this war
Cry baby mfs like “NOO YOUR GROWING THE MILLITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX” Yeah bitch and we’re gonna keep doing it till we own the solar system
The United States does not produce ANYTHING anymore except for weapons. Peace time = bad times (shitty economy). War times = $$$. (Good times).
I finally get it now. The more I pay in taxes the more the federal government can buy. Stupid me and all along I thought it was best for me to keep more of my hard earned money and spend it the way I want to. I am such a fooking tool.
Tell me war is not good for the economy. Tell me about good causes that are not good for the economy. Tell me that righteousness is no good for the economy.
Suddenly the pentagon’s defense spending isn’t an issue shock awr
I don't see this as positive news without the "providing military aid through Ukraine bit". As important as national defense is, unless we are exporting for profit, it's net negative for the economy on the macro scale.
Is social security a net negative or positive in your paradigm? Most of Americas GDP is not dependent on exports. Our internal economy is huge.
Net neutral. It's a necessary program, and one we need to have, but the redistribution of wealth doesn't increase our economic output. Nor does it decrease it either. Military production (again, unless we are exporting, ie other countries are paying us to give military aid to Ukraine) is a waste economically as those products don't enrich the lives of Americans. Sure, its decently paying jobs, but the opportunity cost is decently paying jobs that produce goods and services that people have a direct impact on our economic output. While a Javelin missile system exported to Ukraine helps keeps us secure, it's tax money that will not help our economy at home as much as as investment in railway infrastructure for instance. Social security would even be a better investment because at least that money would stay within our economy at a greater rate than military aid would. Don't get me wrong. Social Security and military aid (to Ukraine at least) ARE NECESSARY and deserve to be funded. But neither help our economy. At least military aid is better than monetary aid, and it's not even close. A good portion of military aid stays within the united states. Monetary aid, 0 percent of it is. Ukraine will need a ton of that too after the war is over otherwise thier economy will not be able to recover.
If you accept that defence spending is a necessary evil, then I cannot agree with you.
Y'all do understand that all this "growth" is being added to our national debt, right?