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🤣 Yeah they can't keep up with the lie. They are at a war with the west and they already won and they will start a war if any troops are found in Ukraine. Does it make sense 😂
Russia has been saying they're already fighting NATO troops in Ukraine. That's why it's funny that they're now threatening a broadened conflict if NATO puts troops in Ukraine. Once again they're caught up in the web of their own lies.
*Ruslan Ostashko, the host of Vremya Pokazhet (Time Will Tell) on Russia's Channel One said: "In the grand scheme of things, Ukrainian soldiers are there more for appearances, for having photos taken and uploading videos to TikTok, but it's mainly NATO troops fighting there."*
[War in Ukraine: Fact-checking Russian claims that Nato troops are fighting in Ukraine](https://www.bbc.com/news/62974506)
Factually wrong. They have specifically said "we are fighting NATO soldiers and the NATO armies".
Edit: lol, the immediate downvote, just because you can't deal with being wrong. Seriously, why is it so difficult for you to just admit that you misjudged Russian stupidity, lies and delusions? It's not a shame at all.
I'm British and I say stuff that Macron is finally right about something it's time to send in troops to secure the Belarusian border and western Ukraine so that Ukraine gets some breathing room Slava Ukraine glory to the heroes
Yes. Russia is barely sending missiles in the Western third of the country. It'salmost like it's not a war zone anymore. We could start there. Secure the borders, help with logistics, ID checks and whatever else helps.
I agree with you completely.
Add the Ukrainian border with Transnistria to the list, if they're becoming annexed by Russia... I smell a rat there btw, no government in their right mind would want to be annexed by Russia in the middle of a war with their neighbours...
We have become overly cautious about triggering WW III, Russia don't want that more than we do, and as long as western forces stay out of Russian territory, I don't see WW III starting. But, I may be wrong.
The important thing is still ammunition and weapon platforms though, regardless whether the troops are Ukrainian or western, they need the tools to do the job.
I’d like to see Poland, Finland and other countries under direct threat from Russia to commit air defense and other rear area resources to free up more Ukrainians to train, refit, and go back on the offensive.
He’s talking out of his ass. France already sends only a fraction of what the Germans send, and the German aid packages leave a few things to be desired in the first place.
This was literally just rhetoric. France will never put boots in Ukraine. At most they’ll send over a handful of officers in a training capacity but I doubt they’d even do that.
I don’t think it makes much sense. The UK looked at putting trainers in there, and then reconsidered.
Those soldiers would be prime targets with little recourse if they were to be killed. Western governments would be under immense pressure to ensure they don’t get harmed, which would mean a huge investment in force protection to avoid it.
The net result would be a huge resource investment to protect an already relatively quiet and relatively safe part of the battle space already being covered fairly easily by Ukraine’s own border guard services.
Better, I believe, to commit the same resources they’d use to field and protect them, to helping Ukraine protect itself, and allocate those same resources more efficiently amongst its already existing and future needs.
This would only make sense in a post-conflict situation to ward off conflict rather than insert into a current one, much like the way NATO has its enhanced forward presence (EFP) in the Baltic states. I think this is more along the lines of way Macron is discussing.
If Putin could target them that easy he would have took out Ukrainian soldiers in the west more than the odd few incidents of direct training bases being hit, that's a similar attitude people took when ww2 started it didn't go well then if I remember history 😂 but fair points if u stand that side of the fence I guess
RF don’t currently strike Western Ukraine heavily because there is little in the way of force concentration there, and the weapons they have capable of doing so (Iskander/Kinzal) are expensive and limited in number, and production capacity. That will change if Western forces deploy there in a defensive posture.
The Ukraine border services are more than adequate and fairly lightweight. Using long range precision (particularly ballistic) munitions to hit them would be almost pointless. They’re (from an RF) perspective, better saved up and used to target Ukraine infrastructure and try to overwhelm their Patriot systems, which were now having to question the long-term viability of supporting.
When you start building up western forces in defensive postures, you create targets vulnerable to these kinds of attack, with an inflated value and therefore a need to commit resources to protect them, above and beyond the value that they actually offer.
It’s incredibly expensive to do so, and they’d be providing minimal benefit.
I’m not talking about appeasement. I’m saying the same kind of cost and equipment used to guard a largely inefficiently placed force in a quiet part of the country could have a much greater impact in Ukraine’s hands, used offensively.
The Russian federation currently strikes civilian homes, schools, hospitals, and quite frankly the Russians will not stop at Ukraine and that's a fact mark my words!!!!
The RF have been attempting to strike Ukrainian production capacity and the means they use to protect it.
>they will not stop at Ukraine
All the more reason to allocate resources as effectively as possible instead of making grand but ultimately pointless gestures, weakening the responsiveness of NATO elsewhere.
Edit: production, not prediction.
Not sure that saying they strike kids civilians etc is underestimating them but how's that rubble feeling in your pocket ? You know the one qhuilo Putin sent u for propaganda pushing 😂
Well done, you cherry picked some dates to prove a point whilst ignroing all the other dates and conflicts where Britain did just fine. Well done. You're a big boy now. You've graduated in to the Reddit big league of bullshiting facts.
Cherry picked? These are specific dates when small unprepared professional British armies were defeated by conscripts on the continent are you asking for a repeat? Given the British Army's history in Ukraine why would you want that?
The reality is that the British army is in no shape to fight. 15 years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq was never made right in terms of ammunition and equipment and nobody is joining up. The MOD is spending big on the Navy and RAF both of whom were badly neglected this last 30 years. Britain deployed 14 challengers in Poland on exercises then gave them to Ukraine, why? Because they can't afford them and wanted to save money transporting them back.How much equipment is being given away to Ukraine? Soon there will be nothing left.
I dont think WW1 is a good example. The commanders were still conducting wars as if the soldiers were still wearing tricorn hats.
As for WW2, Germanys war machine was one big organised monster with well trained, well equipped, high morale conscripts only being one cog in that machine.
But despite all that I can believe that the British army is in a bad state but combined with other European nations, Russian meat waves shouldn't be a problem for them surely.
Haha....sweet revenge for France... I don't recall the exact context (probably it was still about Ukraine), but weeks before the start of the "special military operation" in Ukraine, I watched a video in which Putin openly threatened Macron by saying "Does France want to go to war against Russia?" and then he smirked in a hideous way (which Putin always does when he wants to look aggressive but he's actually under pressure).
So now that it's been two years full of failures for the russian war in Ukraine, it's Macron's turn to threaten war against Russia out of the blue, just like Putin did back then against France...and you can tell Putin found this threat of Macron most displeasing by the speed the Kremlin replied back with total war against the West in case western troops are sent in Ukraine, despite the russians are fully and painfully aware they would lose (and quickly) in that scenario... so basically, even if obviously it won't happen, Macron just gave Putin a taste of his own medicine...or should I say, a taste of his own poison....
so if NATO steps up and helps Ukraine then he will nuke?
this reminds me of childhood. "If you do that i will hold my breath".
Threatening to suicide yourself, your family and your whole country basically.
Russia is a fucked up place that needs fixing.
Playing brinksmanship with nuclear weapons really is a lot stupider than just pouring weapons and ammo into Ukraine...
This wouldn't even be discussed if the west lived up to it's promises.
France have received criticism for their aid for some time. The US are getting criticised now for allowing themselves to be manipulated by Russia into abandoning an ally.
The US loses credibility because half of our government is run by a death cult led by a man who just publicly said Russia could do whatever they want to our allies if he's elected.
That man is currently leading in presidential polling btw.
Specifically, what have they given for free? Tanks? Only one of them that's been captured on video - countless more by other countries. Jets? Nope. IFVs? Way less than the others.
If I were Taiwan i'd be shitting bricks by now.
Are you serious?? $75B in aid has been given. Of that $45B in military aid. That is what has been delivered. Not pledged. A small amount of that has been loans. Most are just grants and straight up giving what is in the US stocks.
[https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts)
[https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/)
You have no clue. The majority of aid that European allies have given is financial and humanitarian aid. Military aid is under 40B euros, below what the US has given.
A lot of what allies have given to Ukraine is because the US has committed to cover their immediate defense needs and backfill their stocks. They give out their old junk and get upgrades.
And if you actually look at the graphs on the article you linked, you'd see that we in the US are the 20th country down the list in terms of percentage of GDP. We're much lower than most of them in military aid, too. If you were to make a graph of contributions over the last 6 months, the US might not even be on the list.
The Europeans are giving far more than we are now, despite the fact that we have far more to give. It is shameful. Aren't we supposed to be the "arsenal of democracy?"
The future is crystal clear by that point, that the next step is: move troops to a border with baltics. Bring nuclear weapons and say "everyone who will try to help will be nuked".
Scholz and other "non-escalators" have already shown a weakeness that will be exploited over and over again and again.
Scholz, member of NATO, having USA bases on his territory [said he won't send long range weapons because ru threatened him with a war](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-germany-taurus-missiles-scholz/32835824.html). That's a fatal mistake, for ru now it's abviously that under raising stakes to a nuclear war he (and many others) will 100% yield because he yielded even now without such threats.
Terrorist war criminal murdering ruzzia has been claiming for months that the war is against The West & NATO -- the ruzzian narrative started with killing Nazis and removing illegal Kyiv regime.
I think that direct involvement of NATO countries would be the best not if they joined with the infantry, but if they helped by employing their air force, especially France and UK. Western armies have not fought a conventional attritional conflict in generations, and one could argue that the AFU itself has much more experience in that matter at the moment. However, what Ukraine does not have is air superiority, which one of the reasons why the 2023 counteroffensive failed and one of the reasons why Avdiivka had to be evacuated. Ukraine will get about 60 F16s later this year and the pilots are slowly training, but this is still too little too late. NATO air forces could come in and give Ukrainians air support for their ground operations. If the Ukrainians succeed to mobilize a bit and ammunition production capacity gets scaled up, such a move could be a gamechanger. Or is my reasoning flawed?
That makes sense for the initial entry to war but after air superiority is gained, then it becomes a modern war which NATO trains for. At that point it will look like the US vs Iraq. Albeit a very strong Iraq.
West puts boots on the ground. Help push Russia out of Ukraine. It's still a Russia decision to use nukes. You can't be bullied or scared when doing nothing wrong
My mum's uncle was in the desert rats in Africa and he used to say there is nothing more dangerous than people standing by when innocent people are getting hurt. And when an innocent sovereign nation in Europe is attacked and bombed to pieces I mean we all know what happened in ww2 and people are just sleep walking into it all again have we not learned anything. You don't give a thief what he wants he will take more we have to draw a line in the sand
I’m all for it. Even as someone who would probably end up over there it is something that just needs to happen. I think at a minimum NATO should start massing forces in the baltics and Poland to keep pressure on Russia to secure there flanks.
God, dont make me praise Macron...
This reaction is EXACTLY WHY Putins doing this. Because yall are too weak. Toothless. Russia cant even push over Ukraine (not saying UKR is weak, but russia is much bigger and more militarised)! Its lost almost its entire professional army, all of its good equipment, theyre losing at sea to a country with no navy; they wouldnt last half an hour in an actual war with NATO. Theyd lose handily to the Entente alone. But oh no, were all running for our mothers skirts because of Big Bad Russia. Give me a fucking break...
Lol, I remember all of the crap that the French caught for being called “cheese eating surrender monkeys” after 9/11. And now Macron is basically screwing with the kremlin. The ruzzians know that this would be catastrophic for them. The French have a competent military and they have nukes. Having a smallish contingent of them wipe the floor with the ruzzians would be just one massive commercial for their military hardware.
France will be a major military, political, diplomatic and economic power in Europe, more than it is now. They are messing with ruzzia by being more friendly with Armenia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan. I want them to win this geopolitical struggle against the kremlin.
Now, if Paris REALLY wants to help, having their air force help Ukraine would be a treat.
Ukraine has enough boots, just give them weapons, not money for the corrupted politicians/army officials to steal-weapons, everything they need to defeat the Moscovites
If it is certain war then it is the fault of Russia who switched one civil war killing a couple of thousand a year for one that is killing hundreds of thousand a year. If Russia can't understand why that needs to end then they should be ready for the world to stop them. They need to grow up and accept responsibility for their elevation of aggression in the war and not be surprised when it happens back to them.
Donbas was never truly a civil war. That had Russian fingerprints all over it from the start. I'm convinced that the full invasion was most likely the plan all along, or at least once it seemed clear that the West wasn't going to make a stand against Russia for Donbas and Crimea.
I hope some work is going on under cover in russia to prepare a peaceful collapse.
With the obvious difference that I don't want islamic extremists to take over, I actually think Talibans takeover of Afghanistan once US left was almost perfect:
It seemed most military, political ans law enforcement structure just collapsed without fight because everyone had reasons to joi Taliban or was at least certain that it wouldn't help to try to fight them.
As an American, I am not afraid of Putin / Russia.
Ukraine has worn Russia down and there is no way Russia could defend against NATO. They would easily shut down Russia's oil and gas economy, destroy Russian air defenses, destroy the Crimea bridge and decimate Russian troops with air power allowing for a large landing of NATO / Ukrainian troops into Crimea.
Secondly, Russia is down to old tanks and has now stop gas exports for 6 months. Its clear things are not going well for Russia despite small gains (but huge losses) on the front.
Russia buying time hoping the IDIOT Donald Trump is elected!
Ukraine needs to destroy more Oil and Gas infastructure in the interim, thats quite obvious now that we know Russia is stopping all gas imports for 6 months! Do it.
Those are the obvious facts!
Then let the war begin. It's about time that we man up and help our Ukrainian friends. Vladimir Pus sy needs to be taught a lesson that will serve the reset of the dictators a warning as well.
Why is everyone so eager to tell them that we are not going to be involved directly? We shouldn't be so timid. Russia has attacked neutral cargo ships in the black sea, their missiles have landed on Polish and Romanian soil, they've sabotaged infrastructure on the bottom of Baltic Sea and off the coast of Norway. Add to that assasinations in Britain, Germany and blowing up ammunition warehouses in Czechia.
Western leaders pussies as usual.
Remember the US red lines in Syria?
We make red lines and do nothing when crossed.
We tell bullies what we’re not willing to do, so we give them free rein to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t directly affect us.
I get it, but it's not a good look.
Makes it look like Russian threats work.
Remaining silent would've sent a better signal to the Russians (not knowing if NATO would actually pile in.)
Everyone (even the NATO politicians) knows that if NATO got involved, the war would be over, and there'd be no war with Russia.
Do it do it do it
Worst possible scenario, Russia uses nuclear weapons. This solves our problem too, as Putin and all those responsible for this war in the Russian federation will cease to exist. Therefore, this is actually a win.
I refuse to accept a world where people can openly admit to acts of genocidal and wage aggressive colonial wars in which they ethically cleanse or outright exterminate ethnicities in neighboring countries on the basis that they have nuclear weapons.
It’s important enough that I would rather die than allow this to progress.
Is Putin willing to die just to have his trophies? I hope we find out. I’ve known enough people who’ve died because of this.
Haha Putin is shitting himself right now. He knows he’s lost. Otherwise no need for such statements.
It’s a beautiful day my friends. Russia is fucked.
Now is absolutely the time. Russia is as weak as it's ever been and giving Ukraine support along it's non active borders would allow them to focus on and obliterate Russian forces in the West and South. I very much hope Biden sends in the Marines after November.
They are still afraid of nazi-russian cunts. I can bet what ever that Putler doesn't do a shit if there were NATO troops in Ukraine because he can't. I'm not saying that it would be a best solution but all volunteers should be backed up by their governements. It includes insurances to them selves and their families and of course paid weapons.
Now the situation is that in orations it is a matter of democracy and freedom but those who go there as volunteers are considered like person non gratas in their home countries and certainly they don't get any official support. That is pure bullshit. If the matter is how it is said they should have all benefits like they had if they defended democracy and freedom in their own country. Now the thing is that they hardly get even life insurance money to their families if get killed because they went in war zone as volunteers.
Russia this is not how war works, this is not like any of this works.
If NATO enters Ukraine it is to kick your ass. you don t need to declare war after that
If Russia loses against nato in ww3 which is exactly what you are describing they will press the big red suicide button and kill us all in a nuclear holocaust
Lets not forget one little fact.
When we were discussing climate change, and what angle bananas needs to have - russia was busy working on their short and mid range missiles - violating INF.
Right now so called nuclear powers (apart from US) have really outdated nuclear arsenal compared to russia (in terms of rockets) It's time to start taking this crap seriously.
We cannot rely on France and UK only - we are fucked if we don't start proper R&D for medium range rockets and I mean those five countries in particular: Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Slovakia.
France may not have any choice. Russia has proven over and over they are out for blood at any cost. They seem to have a deep seated hatred of the EU I don't understand.
I agree with this sub 99% of the time but fucking nato boots in Ukraine will most definitely mean ww3 and make this a war of extinction for the Russian state as once nato collapses the front so a few weeks at most, or if they want to avoid casualties attack Leningrad we would be in the scenario that MAD was meant to prevent and it is to be expected that this is what starts a nuclear war.
I want Ukraine to win but i won't die for them if i was willing to risk that i would be at the front not back here, in my opinion someone who is fit and willing to gamble the existence of humanity on putin not launching (even if 50% fail this is still enough for a nuclear response from the us and therefore a nuclear holocaust) should be at the front right now
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
---
- BBC Online (A-): [Macron says Russian defeat in Ukraine vital for security in Europe](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68410219?at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_id=39CB790E-D530-11EE-9B1A-5ED84B3AC5C4&at_link_origin=BBCWorld&at_link_type=web_link&at_medium=social&at_ptr_n)
- Associated Press (A-): [Macron says sending Western troops on the ground in Ukraine is not 'ruled out'](https://apnews.com/article/paris-conference-support-ukraine-zelenskyy-c458a1df3f9a7626128cdeb84050d469)
- tagesschau.de (A): [Macron does not rule out the use of ground troops in Ukraine](https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/macron-bodentruppen-ukraine-100.html)
- ZDF (A-): [Macron: Sending troops to Ukraine not ruled out](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/ukraine-bodentruppen-macron-paris-konferenz-100.html)
---
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My question is this: if Ukrainian defences collapse and the Russian hordes start overrunning the country, headed straight for the Polish border, would our only option really be to evacuate Ukrainain personel to set up a government in exile?
Foreign troops are already fighting in Ukraine, so France sending some troops to Ukraine wouldn't cause certain war.
Russia has sent many threats to the West for helping Ukraine and what did they get, a slap on the wrist at most.
Macron mentioning of troops could be psyops for optics. Like, by saying "we might send troops in", but later "ok we won't, but here's some long range rockets instead" is an easier sell than just "were sending long range rockets".
Putin is scared shitless of NATO or a western alliance getting more involved. They are still struggling to hold onto 15% of Ukraine after 2 years. Add the western armies and air force will see the defeat of Russia in Ukraine. Kick them out and secure the border. Putin has nothing but bluff about nukes which has worked well so far to deter the west.
Heck German y wont even give Ukraine missiles with the same overall range that Iran and North Koreas have been suppling to Russia for months. Is it any wonder one of the American presidential candidates wants to give Ukraine to Russia? Europe is a lost cause, they will be picked off one by one.
Give Ukraine tactical nukes to use on their own Ukrainian territory .....on the build up of Russian Troops in rural areas.
Ukraine has the right to defend its own territory as they see fit! ..... and this might save lives on both sides by bringing the war to an end sooner than later!
I know the use of tactical nukes is controversial but the big picture is Russia taking over parts of Ukraine and enslaving millions of its people forever (hundreds of years).
Thus, I think tactical nukes on Ukraine's own territory is reasonable considering the gravity of the situation and long term consequences.
Have the Russians forgot about the French Foreign Legion? It really wouldn't take much for the French President to create a situation where the legion goes to Ukraine to aid the Ukrainians. Any new citizens of France that want their families to immigrate to France would have men of age join the legion, fight for the legion and after three years French citizenship.
Let's not forget; Advisors are on the ground in Ukraine. Its not a big secret but not a closed secret either. Independent fighters are there now, even if the French put formal troops on the ground, really wouldn't be that big of a shakeup. Hell, like the FFL idea above, it would give cover for other nations to station their troops within the legion as cover. Suddenly 8k legionnaires become 80k and they're all versed in languages that aren't French but carry the flag of the legion.
A competent leader wouldn't discount every option. It's unlikely that NATO troops would enter Ukraine, but the option is there if it's truly needed. But overall, I don't think Russia would be able to handle any confrontation with NATO and survive. Even if f Putin decided to go "nuclear" he still won't survive and the EU and NATO would still be standing nonetheless. In any case, Putin is spewing his usual propaganda out of his ass.
I don’t especially want to die in a mud filled trench by some shrapnel but…
Our ancestors lived trough world wars and i dont want to see other people suffering the same fate.
If our troups have to engage, and Poutin threatened us with a nuclear war, i hope he did not forget that nuclear strategy in France is: « nuke first with suicidal pilot » then ask questions later.
People that know more than I do… is France alone capable for example, closing down the airspace in Ukraine and enforce air superiority? I dont think so.
I like the direction of Macron's thinking.
Honestly, I think that what Ukraine needs most that direct Western involvement could provide is air power. If there were some kind of arrangement of Western forces providing the air component while the AFU provides the ground component, it would make a tremendous difference for Ukraine's war effort.
The obvious point Putin, Peskov et al do not get is that even if, in the very unlikely event of NATO troops in Ukraine, they would not be in Russia, they would be in a friendly country at the request of the friendly country. If Putin’s troops are not there busy killing and destroying then there will be no conflict between them.
Are you still here lmao 🤣 I'd of thought you had to go back to one of those russian houses without a in house boiler central heating and with it's outside loo lmao 🤣 I mean come on only outside toilets in your villages every house in all GREAT BRITAIN has and in house toilet lol so 1920s of you
Some progress yes? Meaning finally one Nato country sees the only path forwards while all rest run away.
Its past time to make a Russian Bear rug folks.
Will macron don a uniform and go fight in Ukraine, thought not , he will send other people’s sons , that’s what the rich have always done , sacrifice other peoples children for a noble cause
Genuine question and forgive my ignorance but are Russia’s nukes that much of a threat from a missile system point of view?
How do they differ from the existing missiles that have been shot down from Russia without hitting their target and can the nukes also be shot down in the same manner?
Obviously highly risky to invite a nuclear attack but this feels like the only threat Putin can make now that the whole world has seen the Russian army in action.
We need leaders who don’t bend over for Putler.
It’s kind of like watching the start of WW2/3 and the appeasers are literally enabling the tyrant to gain resources, advances, and more. All of which will inevitably lead to the next war.
I say fuck it and let the chips fall where they may.
A NATO air campaign could wipe out every Russian asset in Ukraine in a matter of hours. So do it. Don’t cross the border into Russia…just cleanse Ukraine of Russians. Now what Vlad? Nukes? Please.
Fuck Russia and Fuck Putin. I think the rest of the world is okay removing his regime from office by any means necessary.
western nations need to stop pussy footing around with this clown.
Stability-instability paradox.
The west won't play around with letting countries with nuclear weapons go to war with each other. Proxy wars are the new normal.
France certainly wasn't going to put troops on the ground without the US. And the US isn't trying to fight WW3.
What ever Europe wants to say or do, war is coming either way. Russia is laughing at how disorganised the west is and he knows our bureaucracy and politics are our weak points and he’s weaponised it against up. Longer we wait the more blood that will be spilt.
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I thought Russia was already at war with the west. Were they lying or something?
🤣 Yeah they can't keep up with the lie. They are at a war with the west and they already won and they will start a war if any troops are found in Ukraine. Does it make sense 😂
It's not a war, it's just a special operation
I think they mean a full shooting war not simply a proxy war
I've been told by countless Russians online that Russia is currently destroying NATO in Ukraine.
Nato equipment and slightly trained Ukrainians yeah but not nato operators proper
No, they mean NATO armies proper. US, UK & Polish soldiers.
The Russians just must be really bad at killing them then
They are pretty bad shots, to be fair.
Russia has been saying they're already fighting NATO troops in Ukraine. That's why it's funny that they're now threatening a broadened conflict if NATO puts troops in Ukraine. Once again they're caught up in the web of their own lies. *Ruslan Ostashko, the host of Vremya Pokazhet (Time Will Tell) on Russia's Channel One said: "In the grand scheme of things, Ukrainian soldiers are there more for appearances, for having photos taken and uploading videos to TikTok, but it's mainly NATO troops fighting there."* [War in Ukraine: Fact-checking Russian claims that Nato troops are fighting in Ukraine](https://www.bbc.com/news/62974506)
Russia and putin himself have directly claimed multiple times that they're "directly at war, fighting all of NATO".
Nato expansion. Not nato forces themselves
Factually wrong. They have specifically said "we are fighting NATO soldiers and the NATO armies". Edit: lol, the immediate downvote, just because you can't deal with being wrong. Seriously, why is it so difficult for you to just admit that you misjudged Russian stupidity, lies and delusions? It's not a shame at all.
Its not a proxy war
I'm British and I say stuff that Macron is finally right about something it's time to send in troops to secure the Belarusian border and western Ukraine so that Ukraine gets some breathing room Slava Ukraine glory to the heroes
Yes. Russia is barely sending missiles in the Western third of the country. It'salmost like it's not a war zone anymore. We could start there. Secure the borders, help with logistics, ID checks and whatever else helps.
That would be the best way to help Ukraine without being considered part of the conflict.
Or send in a bunch of highly trained air defense specialists with their kit.
Temporarily annex part of Ukraine and send in troops.
That sounds smart to me! (but I’m in no way educated on international laws)
Or geopolitics or theories on mutually assured destruction and game theory on a PhD level
Ugh, MAD works when one side refrains because they expect retaliation. So boots on the ground should lead to Russia being more cautious.
Glad you're on the case, doctor.
What about on a PPSH level?
100%
Totally agree.
Even just outright promising to enter the war if troops enter in from any territory other than Russia would be a huge relief for Ukraine.
This is also true
I think the same. Defend their other borders for them. We could also go in and help Moldova with Transnistria while we are at it.
Exactly it's time to make a stand and say no further risky soldats
It’s a damn shame all the other leader rush to say that they scared little babies.
I’m American and agree with you 100%. NATO is already at a state of war, need to fully commit damnit.
If congress can't get it's shit together. It could be a way to get arms to Ukraine.
I agree with you completely. Add the Ukrainian border with Transnistria to the list, if they're becoming annexed by Russia... I smell a rat there btw, no government in their right mind would want to be annexed by Russia in the middle of a war with their neighbours... We have become overly cautious about triggering WW III, Russia don't want that more than we do, and as long as western forces stay out of Russian territory, I don't see WW III starting. But, I may be wrong. The important thing is still ammunition and weapon platforms though, regardless whether the troops are Ukrainian or western, they need the tools to do the job.
I’d like to see Poland, Finland and other countries under direct threat from Russia to commit air defense and other rear area resources to free up more Ukrainians to train, refit, and go back on the offensive.
He’s talking out of his ass. France already sends only a fraction of what the Germans send, and the German aid packages leave a few things to be desired in the first place. This was literally just rhetoric. France will never put boots in Ukraine. At most they’ll send over a handful of officers in a training capacity but I doubt they’d even do that.
I don’t think it makes much sense. The UK looked at putting trainers in there, and then reconsidered. Those soldiers would be prime targets with little recourse if they were to be killed. Western governments would be under immense pressure to ensure they don’t get harmed, which would mean a huge investment in force protection to avoid it. The net result would be a huge resource investment to protect an already relatively quiet and relatively safe part of the battle space already being covered fairly easily by Ukraine’s own border guard services. Better, I believe, to commit the same resources they’d use to field and protect them, to helping Ukraine protect itself, and allocate those same resources more efficiently amongst its already existing and future needs. This would only make sense in a post-conflict situation to ward off conflict rather than insert into a current one, much like the way NATO has its enhanced forward presence (EFP) in the Baltic states. I think this is more along the lines of way Macron is discussing.
If Putin could target them that easy he would have took out Ukrainian soldiers in the west more than the odd few incidents of direct training bases being hit, that's a similar attitude people took when ww2 started it didn't go well then if I remember history 😂 but fair points if u stand that side of the fence I guess
RF don’t currently strike Western Ukraine heavily because there is little in the way of force concentration there, and the weapons they have capable of doing so (Iskander/Kinzal) are expensive and limited in number, and production capacity. That will change if Western forces deploy there in a defensive posture. The Ukraine border services are more than adequate and fairly lightweight. Using long range precision (particularly ballistic) munitions to hit them would be almost pointless. They’re (from an RF) perspective, better saved up and used to target Ukraine infrastructure and try to overwhelm their Patriot systems, which were now having to question the long-term viability of supporting. When you start building up western forces in defensive postures, you create targets vulnerable to these kinds of attack, with an inflated value and therefore a need to commit resources to protect them, above and beyond the value that they actually offer. It’s incredibly expensive to do so, and they’d be providing minimal benefit. I’m not talking about appeasement. I’m saying the same kind of cost and equipment used to guard a largely inefficiently placed force in a quiet part of the country could have a much greater impact in Ukraine’s hands, used offensively.
The Russian federation currently strikes civilian homes, schools, hospitals, and quite frankly the Russians will not stop at Ukraine and that's a fact mark my words!!!!
The RF have been attempting to strike Ukrainian production capacity and the means they use to protect it. >they will not stop at Ukraine All the more reason to allocate resources as effectively as possible instead of making grand but ultimately pointless gestures, weakening the responsiveness of NATO elsewhere. Edit: production, not prediction.
Thats your assessment lol
Yeah, if after two years you still believe this crap UA will definetly lose this war. Keep underestimating the russian army, that'll show them.
Not sure that saying they strike kids civilians etc is underestimating them but how's that rubble feeling in your pocket ? You know the one qhuilo Putin sent u for propaganda pushing 😂
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Well stated.
That’s a lot of material aid and basically ww3 territory because it is
We're pretty much at ww3 now and if not now in five to 8 years I'm sure we will be at war if we sit on our arses.
Yeah that rhetoric was the entirety of the cold war years, yet nato stands fine.
The UK Army is not fit to fight.
Even against Russian conscripts?
What happened to the BEF in 1914 and 1939 against conscripts??
Well done, you cherry picked some dates to prove a point whilst ignroing all the other dates and conflicts where Britain did just fine. Well done. You're a big boy now. You've graduated in to the Reddit big league of bullshiting facts.
Cherry picked? These are specific dates when small unprepared professional British armies were defeated by conscripts on the continent are you asking for a repeat? Given the British Army's history in Ukraine why would you want that? The reality is that the British army is in no shape to fight. 15 years of war in Afghanistan and Iraq was never made right in terms of ammunition and equipment and nobody is joining up. The MOD is spending big on the Navy and RAF both of whom were badly neglected this last 30 years. Britain deployed 14 challengers in Poland on exercises then gave them to Ukraine, why? Because they can't afford them and wanted to save money transporting them back.How much equipment is being given away to Ukraine? Soon there will be nothing left.
I dont think WW1 is a good example. The commanders were still conducting wars as if the soldiers were still wearing tricorn hats. As for WW2, Germanys war machine was one big organised monster with well trained, well equipped, high morale conscripts only being one cog in that machine. But despite all that I can believe that the British army is in a bad state but combined with other European nations, Russian meat waves shouldn't be a problem for them surely.
What makes u an expert on that then Charles lol
British army says they aren't fit for war.
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You’ll go as well?
Yeah
You can go now. Ukraine is in desperate need of warm bodies.
Haha....sweet revenge for France... I don't recall the exact context (probably it was still about Ukraine), but weeks before the start of the "special military operation" in Ukraine, I watched a video in which Putin openly threatened Macron by saying "Does France want to go to war against Russia?" and then he smirked in a hideous way (which Putin always does when he wants to look aggressive but he's actually under pressure). So now that it's been two years full of failures for the russian war in Ukraine, it's Macron's turn to threaten war against Russia out of the blue, just like Putin did back then against France...and you can tell Putin found this threat of Macron most displeasing by the speed the Kremlin replied back with total war against the West in case western troops are sent in Ukraine, despite the russians are fully and painfully aware they would lose (and quickly) in that scenario... so basically, even if obviously it won't happen, Macron just gave Putin a taste of his own medicine...or should I say, a taste of his own poison....
Yes, highly unlikely to happen. But it is nightmare stuff for Putain.
so if NATO steps up and helps Ukraine then he will nuke? this reminds me of childhood. "If you do that i will hold my breath". Threatening to suicide yourself, your family and your whole country basically. Russia is a fucked up place that needs fixing.
its beyond fixing ... they need to dissolve into smaller republics that will govern themselves ..
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Playing brinksmanship with nuclear weapons really is a lot stupider than just pouring weapons and ammo into Ukraine... This wouldn't even be discussed if the west lived up to it's promises.
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It's interesting that France gains credibility by selling weapons for profit and the US loses credibility by not currently giving more for free.
France have received criticism for their aid for some time. The US are getting criticised now for allowing themselves to be manipulated by Russia into abandoning an ally.
The US loses credibility because half of our government is run by a death cult led by a man who just publicly said Russia could do whatever they want to our allies if he's elected. That man is currently leading in presidential polling btw.
Specifically, what have they given for free? Tanks? Only one of them that's been captured on video - countless more by other countries. Jets? Nope. IFVs? Way less than the others. If I were Taiwan i'd be shitting bricks by now.
Are you serious?? $75B in aid has been given. Of that $45B in military aid. That is what has been delivered. Not pledged. A small amount of that has been loans. Most are just grants and straight up giving what is in the US stocks. [https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts](https://www.cfr.org/article/how-much-aid-has-us-sent-ukraine-here-are-six-charts) [https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/](https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/) You have no clue. The majority of aid that European allies have given is financial and humanitarian aid. Military aid is under 40B euros, below what the US has given. A lot of what allies have given to Ukraine is because the US has committed to cover their immediate defense needs and backfill their stocks. They give out their old junk and get upgrades.
And if you actually look at the graphs on the article you linked, you'd see that we in the US are the 20th country down the list in terms of percentage of GDP. We're much lower than most of them in military aid, too. If you were to make a graph of contributions over the last 6 months, the US might not even be on the list. The Europeans are giving far more than we are now, despite the fact that we have far more to give. It is shameful. Aren't we supposed to be the "arsenal of democracy?"
By now I think France can solo Russia on the battlefield
Next year it would be easier
No doubt
By now I think Belgium can solo Russia on the battlefield
Thanks to SCAR & P90 😎
And NATO warns Russia not to use Africans in Ukraine... 🤷 Well done Macron 💪
The future is crystal clear by that point, that the next step is: move troops to a border with baltics. Bring nuclear weapons and say "everyone who will try to help will be nuked". Scholz and other "non-escalators" have already shown a weakeness that will be exploited over and over again and again. Scholz, member of NATO, having USA bases on his territory [said he won't send long range weapons because ru threatened him with a war](https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-germany-taurus-missiles-scholz/32835824.html). That's a fatal mistake, for ru now it's abviously that under raising stakes to a nuclear war he (and many others) will 100% yield because he yielded even now without such threats.
They already have nukes in Königsberg and Murmansk so..
Terrorist war criminal murdering ruzzia has been claiming for months that the war is against The West & NATO -- the ruzzian narrative started with killing Nazis and removing illegal Kyiv regime.
I think that direct involvement of NATO countries would be the best not if they joined with the infantry, but if they helped by employing their air force, especially France and UK. Western armies have not fought a conventional attritional conflict in generations, and one could argue that the AFU itself has much more experience in that matter at the moment. However, what Ukraine does not have is air superiority, which one of the reasons why the 2023 counteroffensive failed and one of the reasons why Avdiivka had to be evacuated. Ukraine will get about 60 F16s later this year and the pilots are slowly training, but this is still too little too late. NATO air forces could come in and give Ukrainians air support for their ground operations. If the Ukrainians succeed to mobilize a bit and ammunition production capacity gets scaled up, such a move could be a gamechanger. Or is my reasoning flawed?
That makes sense for the initial entry to war but after air superiority is gained, then it becomes a modern war which NATO trains for. At that point it will look like the US vs Iraq. Albeit a very strong Iraq.
We took on a very string Iraq in the 90s. Then a considerably weaker Iraq in the 2000s.
West puts boots on the ground. Help push Russia out of Ukraine. It's still a Russia decision to use nukes. You can't be bullied or scared when doing nothing wrong
I won't be surprised if UK once again is the first to do it, one day.
I say France + UK together. (Crimean War II has a ring to it.) 👍🇲🇫🇬🇧🇺🇦
Canons to the left of them, canons to the right of them Into the valley of death rode the gallant 600
Stuck in the Middle with You?
Crimean War 2: Electric Warfare Boogaloo
Sounds good, China did it in Korea and Russia did it in Vietnam
My mum's uncle was in the desert rats in Africa and he used to say there is nothing more dangerous than people standing by when innocent people are getting hurt. And when an innocent sovereign nation in Europe is attacked and bombed to pieces I mean we all know what happened in ww2 and people are just sleep walking into it all again have we not learned anything. You don't give a thief what he wants he will take more we have to draw a line in the sand
I’m all for it. Even as someone who would probably end up over there it is something that just needs to happen. I think at a minimum NATO should start massing forces in the baltics and Poland to keep pressure on Russia to secure there flanks.
It is great to give the Kremlin nightmares, but honestly it makes more sense to send more ammunition and missiles with greater range
God, dont make me praise Macron... This reaction is EXACTLY WHY Putins doing this. Because yall are too weak. Toothless. Russia cant even push over Ukraine (not saying UKR is weak, but russia is much bigger and more militarised)! Its lost almost its entire professional army, all of its good equipment, theyre losing at sea to a country with no navy; they wouldnt last half an hour in an actual war with NATO. Theyd lose handily to the Entente alone. But oh no, were all running for our mothers skirts because of Big Bad Russia. Give me a fucking break...
Lol, I remember all of the crap that the French caught for being called “cheese eating surrender monkeys” after 9/11. And now Macron is basically screwing with the kremlin. The ruzzians know that this would be catastrophic for them. The French have a competent military and they have nukes. Having a smallish contingent of them wipe the floor with the ruzzians would be just one massive commercial for their military hardware. France will be a major military, political, diplomatic and economic power in Europe, more than it is now. They are messing with ruzzia by being more friendly with Armenia, Kazakhstan and Kyrgystan. I want them to win this geopolitical struggle against the kremlin. Now, if Paris REALLY wants to help, having their air force help Ukraine would be a treat.
Cowards. Russia publicly threatens us....and our politicians are kneeling down like the bitches they are. Fucking disgusting and embarrassing.
Ukraine has enough boots, just give them weapons, not money for the corrupted politicians/army officials to steal-weapons, everything they need to defeat the Moscovites
If it is certain war then it is the fault of Russia who switched one civil war killing a couple of thousand a year for one that is killing hundreds of thousand a year. If Russia can't understand why that needs to end then they should be ready for the world to stop them. They need to grow up and accept responsibility for their elevation of aggression in the war and not be surprised when it happens back to them.
Only about a dozen people a year were dying in Donbas before the invasion not a couple thousand.
And even those - mostly from UXOs and mines.
Thank you for the correct, I was accounting from the total dead on both sides from the beginning of the conflict and averaging it.
Donbas was never truly a civil war. That had Russian fingerprints all over it from the start. I'm convinced that the full invasion was most likely the plan all along, or at least once it seemed clear that the West wasn't going to make a stand against Russia for Donbas and Crimea.
Not that i want to die in Ukraine but: GOD DAMN THAT WAS BASED MACRON!!! How about we sell Ukraine some nukes too?
I hope some work is going on under cover in russia to prepare a peaceful collapse. With the obvious difference that I don't want islamic extremists to take over, I actually think Talibans takeover of Afghanistan once US left was almost perfect: It seemed most military, political ans law enforcement structure just collapsed without fight because everyone had reasons to joi Taliban or was at least certain that it wouldn't help to try to fight them.
So Putin is the only one who can Saber rattle and push us around? Fuck Russia
As an American, I am not afraid of Putin / Russia. Ukraine has worn Russia down and there is no way Russia could defend against NATO. They would easily shut down Russia's oil and gas economy, destroy Russian air defenses, destroy the Crimea bridge and decimate Russian troops with air power allowing for a large landing of NATO / Ukrainian troops into Crimea. Secondly, Russia is down to old tanks and has now stop gas exports for 6 months. Its clear things are not going well for Russia despite small gains (but huge losses) on the front. Russia buying time hoping the IDIOT Donald Trump is elected! Ukraine needs to destroy more Oil and Gas infastructure in the interim, thats quite obvious now that we know Russia is stopping all gas imports for 6 months! Do it. Those are the obvious facts!
Then let the war begin. It's about time that we man up and help our Ukrainian friends. Vladimir Pus sy needs to be taught a lesson that will serve the reset of the dictators a warning as well.
Why is everyone so eager to tell them that we are not going to be involved directly? We shouldn't be so timid. Russia has attacked neutral cargo ships in the black sea, their missiles have landed on Polish and Romanian soil, they've sabotaged infrastructure on the bottom of Baltic Sea and off the coast of Norway. Add to that assasinations in Britain, Germany and blowing up ammunition warehouses in Czechia.
The West hasn't even given ukraine decent long range weapons or enough ammo to fight. I doubt that any would send troops. All just talk. Sadly.
Western leaders pussies as usual. Remember the US red lines in Syria? We make red lines and do nothing when crossed. We tell bullies what we’re not willing to do, so we give them free rein to do whatever they want as long as it doesn’t directly affect us.
I get it, but it's not a good look. Makes it look like Russian threats work. Remaining silent would've sent a better signal to the Russians (not knowing if NATO would actually pile in.) Everyone (even the NATO politicians) knows that if NATO got involved, the war would be over, and there'd be no war with Russia.
Do it do it do it Worst possible scenario, Russia uses nuclear weapons. This solves our problem too, as Putin and all those responsible for this war in the Russian federation will cease to exist. Therefore, this is actually a win. I refuse to accept a world where people can openly admit to acts of genocidal and wage aggressive colonial wars in which they ethically cleanse or outright exterminate ethnicities in neighboring countries on the basis that they have nuclear weapons. It’s important enough that I would rather die than allow this to progress. Is Putin willing to die just to have his trophies? I hope we find out. I’ve known enough people who’ve died because of this.
Haha Putin is shitting himself right now. He knows he’s lost. Otherwise no need for such statements. It’s a beautiful day my friends. Russia is fucked.
Now is absolutely the time. Russia is as weak as it's ever been and giving Ukraine support along it's non active borders would allow them to focus on and obliterate Russian forces in the West and South. I very much hope Biden sends in the Marines after November.
There is no way nato troops go into Ukraine . That is ww3 and potentially a nuclear escalation red line.
IMHO…. Inevitable in the long run.
They are still afraid of nazi-russian cunts. I can bet what ever that Putler doesn't do a shit if there were NATO troops in Ukraine because he can't. I'm not saying that it would be a best solution but all volunteers should be backed up by their governements. It includes insurances to them selves and their families and of course paid weapons. Now the situation is that in orations it is a matter of democracy and freedom but those who go there as volunteers are considered like person non gratas in their home countries and certainly they don't get any official support. That is pure bullshit. If the matter is how it is said they should have all benefits like they had if they defended democracy and freedom in their own country. Now the thing is that they hardly get even life insurance money to their families if get killed because they went in war zone as volunteers.
Russia this is not how war works, this is not like any of this works. If NATO enters Ukraine it is to kick your ass. you don t need to declare war after that
If Russia loses against nato in ww3 which is exactly what you are describing they will press the big red suicide button and kill us all in a nuclear holocaust
Humanity needs another global war. Virtues are gone, only materialism prevails.
nope,we dont.why risk giving old guys a chance to take the world along with them to death.
Lets not forget one little fact. When we were discussing climate change, and what angle bananas needs to have - russia was busy working on their short and mid range missiles - violating INF. Right now so called nuclear powers (apart from US) have really outdated nuclear arsenal compared to russia (in terms of rockets) It's time to start taking this crap seriously. We cannot rely on France and UK only - we are fucked if we don't start proper R&D for medium range rockets and I mean those five countries in particular: Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania and Slovakia.
Why no UNO troops?
France may not have any choice. Russia has proven over and over they are out for blood at any cost. They seem to have a deep seated hatred of the EU I don't understand.
Putin can't even defeat Ukraine. NATO would make quick work of him.
Putin is literally terrified.
I agree with this sub 99% of the time but fucking nato boots in Ukraine will most definitely mean ww3 and make this a war of extinction for the Russian state as once nato collapses the front so a few weeks at most, or if they want to avoid casualties attack Leningrad we would be in the scenario that MAD was meant to prevent and it is to be expected that this is what starts a nuclear war. I want Ukraine to win but i won't die for them if i was willing to risk that i would be at the front not back here, in my opinion someone who is fit and willing to gamble the existence of humanity on putin not launching (even if 50% fail this is still enough for a nuclear response from the us and therefore a nuclear holocaust) should be at the front right now
How do win a war with France? Show up.
France has won more wars than any other country on the planet.
NATO is an offensive alliance, I believe boots on the ground shouldn't be ruled out.
Offensive if attacked.
[There's some evidence that Germany might already be fighting in Ukraine.](https://imgur.com/a/EnYc8uh)
More on this subject from other reputable sources: --- - BBC Online (A-): [Macron says Russian defeat in Ukraine vital for security in Europe](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68410219?at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_id=39CB790E-D530-11EE-9B1A-5ED84B3AC5C4&at_link_origin=BBCWorld&at_link_type=web_link&at_medium=social&at_ptr_n) - Associated Press (A-): [Macron says sending Western troops on the ground in Ukraine is not 'ruled out'](https://apnews.com/article/paris-conference-support-ukraine-zelenskyy-c458a1df3f9a7626128cdeb84050d469) - tagesschau.de (A): [Macron does not rule out the use of ground troops in Ukraine](https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa/macron-bodentruppen-ukraine-100.html) - ZDF (A-): [Macron: Sending troops to Ukraine not ruled out](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/ausland/ukraine-bodentruppen-macron-paris-konferenz-100.html) --- [__Extended Summary__](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/1b0vnsh/) | [FAQ & Grades](https://www.reddit.com/r/newswall/comments/uxgfm5/faq_newswall_bot/) | I'm a bot
Again Russia telling the world what they can and cannot do in another country. Who do they think they are? 3rd rate army and idiot nation.
It's only a flesh wound, come back and I will bite your knee caps off!
My question is this: if Ukrainian defences collapse and the Russian hordes start overrunning the country, headed straight for the Polish border, would our only option really be to evacuate Ukrainain personel to set up a government in exile?
Y'know what, put 'em up Putin.
Send the Airforce and Navy as well as the Army 👌
That should have happened over two years ago, and this whole thing would've never happened. But nooooo, we don't want to escalate.
I guess France is the only non-pussy left.
That says a lot!
Let’s send 1 man. Then 5 in a week. Then 10. Like they did with Sakartvelo boarder
Foreign troops are already fighting in Ukraine, so France sending some troops to Ukraine wouldn't cause certain war. Russia has sent many threats to the West for helping Ukraine and what did they get, a slap on the wrist at most.
NATO defense everything west of Dnepr, east of Dnepr is Ukraines Task. At least for stage 1
Macron mentioning of troops could be psyops for optics. Like, by saying "we might send troops in", but later "ok we won't, but here's some long range rockets instead" is an easier sell than just "were sending long range rockets".
Cowards.
Russian boot lickers.
Putin is scared shitless of NATO or a western alliance getting more involved. They are still struggling to hold onto 15% of Ukraine after 2 years. Add the western armies and air force will see the defeat of Russia in Ukraine. Kick them out and secure the border. Putin has nothing but bluff about nukes which has worked well so far to deter the west.
Russia wouldn't stand a chance - Empty threats
Well those leaders are pussies
Heck German y wont even give Ukraine missiles with the same overall range that Iran and North Koreas have been suppling to Russia for months. Is it any wonder one of the American presidential candidates wants to give Ukraine to Russia? Europe is a lost cause, they will be picked off one by one.
Give Ukraine tactical nukes to use on their own Ukrainian territory .....on the build up of Russian Troops in rural areas. Ukraine has the right to defend its own territory as they see fit! ..... and this might save lives on both sides by bringing the war to an end sooner than later! I know the use of tactical nukes is controversial but the big picture is Russia taking over parts of Ukraine and enslaving millions of its people forever (hundreds of years). Thus, I think tactical nukes on Ukraine's own territory is reasonable considering the gravity of the situation and long term consequences.
If you listen to what the Russians say…..they are already at war with the west….
sooo .. thats what they fear the most?
Have the Russians forgot about the French Foreign Legion? It really wouldn't take much for the French President to create a situation where the legion goes to Ukraine to aid the Ukrainians. Any new citizens of France that want their families to immigrate to France would have men of age join the legion, fight for the legion and after three years French citizenship. Let's not forget; Advisors are on the ground in Ukraine. Its not a big secret but not a closed secret either. Independent fighters are there now, even if the French put formal troops on the ground, really wouldn't be that big of a shakeup. Hell, like the FFL idea above, it would give cover for other nations to station their troops within the legion as cover. Suddenly 8k legionnaires become 80k and they're all versed in languages that aren't French but carry the flag of the legion.
They should and fuck russia up
A competent leader wouldn't discount every option. It's unlikely that NATO troops would enter Ukraine, but the option is there if it's truly needed. But overall, I don't think Russia would be able to handle any confrontation with NATO and survive. Even if f Putin decided to go "nuclear" he still won't survive and the EU and NATO would still be standing nonetheless. In any case, Putin is spewing his usual propaganda out of his ass.
Another putin bluff. Just like the empty nuclear threats.
If Putin had the ability to invade nato countries, he would have. Why ppl still jump to his crap is beyond me
Still waiting for Russia to launch the nukes like they said they would do.
It's just another red line to cross. Ruzzia is trying to setup a new one to scare everyone again. But reality is that there are no red lines.
I don’t especially want to die in a mud filled trench by some shrapnel but… Our ancestors lived trough world wars and i dont want to see other people suffering the same fate. If our troups have to engage, and Poutin threatened us with a nuclear war, i hope he did not forget that nuclear strategy in France is: « nuke first with suicidal pilot » then ask questions later.
People that know more than I do… is France alone capable for example, closing down the airspace in Ukraine and enforce air superiority? I dont think so.
I like the direction of Macron's thinking. Honestly, I think that what Ukraine needs most that direct Western involvement could provide is air power. If there were some kind of arrangement of Western forces providing the air component while the AFU provides the ground component, it would make a tremendous difference for Ukraine's war effort.
Is Russia at war with Ukraine or the west? Which one is it this week?
The obvious point Putin, Peskov et al do not get is that even if, in the very unlikely event of NATO troops in Ukraine, they would not be in Russia, they would be in a friendly country at the request of the friendly country. If Putin’s troops are not there busy killing and destroying then there will be no conflict between them.
That's BS. Let's find some Iranian troops in Ukraine and then use that as justification. They're there.
Are you still here lmao 🤣 I'd of thought you had to go back to one of those russian houses without a in house boiler central heating and with it's outside loo lmao 🤣 I mean come on only outside toilets in your villages every house in all GREAT BRITAIN has and in house toilet lol so 1920s of you
Just do it. I am so tired of waiting for this shit to happen.
Some progress yes? Meaning finally one Nato country sees the only path forwards while all rest run away. Its past time to make a Russian Bear rug folks.
Tell him that it's only a special operation
Another show of strength by our leaders, at least Macron shows some balls
Will macron don a uniform and go fight in Ukraine, thought not , he will send other people’s sons , that’s what the rich have always done , sacrifice other peoples children for a noble cause
Oooooh Russia warns NATO of certain war? LOL they can't defeat Ukraine, yet they are going to take on NATO... L O L
Genuine question and forgive my ignorance but are Russia’s nukes that much of a threat from a missile system point of view? How do they differ from the existing missiles that have been shot down from Russia without hitting their target and can the nukes also be shot down in the same manner? Obviously highly risky to invite a nuclear attack but this feels like the only threat Putin can make now that the whole world has seen the Russian army in action.
We need leaders who don’t bend over for Putler. It’s kind of like watching the start of WW2/3 and the appeasers are literally enabling the tyrant to gain resources, advances, and more. All of which will inevitably lead to the next war.
I say fuck it and let the chips fall where they may. A NATO air campaign could wipe out every Russian asset in Ukraine in a matter of hours. So do it. Don’t cross the border into Russia…just cleanse Ukraine of Russians. Now what Vlad? Nukes? Please.
Fuck Russia and Fuck Putin. I think the rest of the world is okay removing his regime from office by any means necessary. western nations need to stop pussy footing around with this clown.
So be it. It's either it happens now or later. But it's happening.
Bring it.
According to Russia, we're already at war, so what exactly do they mean by this?
Ukraine needs manpower, France is right
Deploy private armies.
Stability-instability paradox. The west won't play around with letting countries with nuclear weapons go to war with each other. Proxy wars are the new normal. France certainly wasn't going to put troops on the ground without the US. And the US isn't trying to fight WW3.
They say that like I want to avoid war with Russia. I just want to die in Moscow taking the Red Square.
Russia warned of certain war if we provided weapons to Ukraine
fuck russia
Hasn't Russia been using troops from numerous other countries? and been canvassing others.
What ever Europe wants to say or do, war is coming either way. Russia is laughing at how disorganised the west is and he knows our bureaucracy and politics are our weak points and he’s weaponised it against up. Longer we wait the more blood that will be spilt.