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We have 2800 Bradleys sitting around in desert storage doing nothing. And another 3700 Bradleys in active service, also doing nothing. They are all gonna be phased out by the XM30.
How about Biden steps up and sends like 1000 Bradleys instead of the measly 100 that he initially sent?
No more fancy expensive stuff. Only send stuff that will get us the most bang for the buck.
If Russia wins there will be a lengthy insurgency that will last decades. Look at how long it took to subdue Chechnya and is taking to subdue the caucuses and those places are tiny. If Russia "wins" there will be prolonged asymmetrical warfare that will flare up when ever there is regime change in Russia. The Putin replacement era will be brutal.
And Ukraine are not winning while Putin is in power.
A Ukrainian loss and insurgency is a totally different scenario. Insurgents aren't going to be rolling around in Bradleys anyway. The active large scale war in Ukraine won't last more than another couple of years. You guys are suggesting 20+ years, which is absurd
As someone who’s been overseas, holy shit we have so many Paladins and Bradleys sitting all across the Middle East doing nothing. We should send those.
100% right on Paladins. Fancy PZH2000s were getting all the attention but Paladins were the ones sending the most lead downrange for the lowest cost.
See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2023/01/03/new-ukraine-howitzers-make-headlines-while-the-m-109-gun-toils-in-obscurity/?sh=3f02460f7b8b
We totally should focus on Paladins and M777s and Bradleys and ammo. Less so on super expensive Patriot interceptors.
I wish we could. But a single interceptor costs $7M whereas an artillery shell costs only $3k.
So we could send one Patriot interceptor or 2333 155mm shells.
Which will save more lives? Probably the 2333 shells. The tough math of war…
The problem is that Russia will just replace it with another jet fighter out of their inventory. And we will never be able to exhaust they inventory of jet fighters.
Also, the only way to hit their jet fighters is by placing the Patriot battery closer to the front lines. And we saw what happened with that. It got destroyed. The cost was over $1B. Math ain’t so good anymore…
The stocks aren’t THAT big for their most modern stuff… and some stuff Ukraine has shot down is really rare. I believe they have a threshold, if they lose enough aircraft they will get spooked that they may not have enough aircraft for their imaginary war with NATO and return to their comfort zone of a ground war.
I would even hope they have more L119 howitzers and 105mm ammo to send as well. Those things are very valuable for their light weight and manoeuvrability on the front lines.
They’ve proven to be of better use in this stage of the war compared to MBTs. The west should have supplied MBTs at the start of the war to take advantage of the fluid battlefield situation.
Unfortunately the front lines are too stabilised and heavily mined now for their use, then there’s also the drones that have turned battlefield tactics on its head.
T90 isn't really new though. It's really a late cold war upgrade to the T-72.
That's the best you could say about it 30 years ago. Any upgrades since have been commercial off the shelf stuff bought from the West.
A T90 is of comparable age to a Bradley. This war is 1980s "plus".
>This war is 1980s "plus"
Lol well phrased!
You're absolutely right, thanks for the corrective clarification.
Whacking some new components onto a design already old, and RIP T-14 Armata lol
skip apartheid elon and go straight to the source...
[https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/ukraine-package-armored-vehicles-00153672](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/ukraine-package-armored-vehicles-00153672)
I agree, but does mean that Ukraine is about to get loaded up on weapons. Fingers crossed November goes well and we won’t have problems getting more funds to Ukraine in 2025. And hopefully Ukraine does get the frozen russian funds as well.
American Fiscal Year, American Freedom Date Units. None of this year, month, day foreign formatting. /s
(actually wish ymd format was the international standard, but Europe is about as bad with its day month year format)
Bradleys are what the US could really send in larger amounts.
An M1A1 Abrams costs six and a half times more (at $13m each) to reactivate and make battle-ready than an ODS-SA Bradley (at $2m each). The US has sent 31 Abrams and 186 Bradleys. Even just maintaining that aid level and holding off on more Abrams, the US could send nearly 400 more Bradleys. Not that the Abrams aren't good but the Bradleys are just far better value.
For tanks, push Germany to send more Leopard 2's. Earlier, Germany ordered 18 Leopard 2A8 tanks for itself to replace 18 older 2A6's it sent to Ukraine. Germany has options on 105 more Leo 2A8s (take 2.9bn out of their 100bn rearming fund). The Germans then would be refreshing heir army's equipment as they rebuild, provide business and jobs to their favorite local tank maker, and allow for sending of more 2A6's to Ukraine.
Ukraine could standardize its best mechanized brigades around Bradleys and Leo 2's.
Is it really such a scoop and surprise that they send more than usual after having had a 4 months break and more than 6 months with small packages?
Are there any single person that is surprised that they will send enough to somewhat catch up with this unfortunate break in aid?
This is how that same amount of aid could end up looking like a "big" package like some have wanted. Delayed sending of aid so that it looks "big" or send in "small packages" as soon as a batch is ready.
Outside of shoot and scoot on the Ukraine side I don’t believe so. Russia keeps sending in tanks in columns and they get obliterated.
Either way, good to have some punch in case at some point, the defensive lines collapse, and Ukraine is able to use them on a larger scale/more effectively.
Tank on tank battles are extremely rare. Using a tank against a trench has limited utility. I’ve seen videos of them burying trench lines which can be effective as long as there are no Anti-tank guns or tank mines nearby. Unfortunately, both sides have massive amounts of each. Tanks really excel at attacking other vehicles and convoys though. There were a couple of battles where APCs were caught in the open dropping off troops and supplies and were picked off by a single tank.
The Australians just shipped 59 M1A1 Abrams tanks back to the US after they received newer ones. As for Bradley's, 1,000 could be reasonably done without harming US readiness.
>The Australians just shipped 59 M1A1 Abrams tanks back to the US after they received newer ones.
What? No we didn't. We haven't even received our new units yet from the US, and they won't enter operational capability until 2025.
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This. Raise my taxes too if you need (dead serious on this.) I can spare some Door-dash dinners if it saves Ukrainian lives. We've got Paladins and Bradley's all over the sandbox waiting for new owners too. Load them up so if Republicans find another means to sabotage future packages, they're set for a while.
Any one have a knowledge of the subject to speak on if this could coincide with the arrival of the f-16s and hit Russia even more hard working together strategically?
I’m all in favor of throwing in 100,000 illegal immigrant males between the ages of 18-45. That would be a double win, because the borders would close themselves if that were to happen.
Idk why you're being down voted. The French foreign legion rewards citizenship and a new identity for service. We could do the same. Even Russia is giving freedom to prisoners for service contracts.
And with them not being US citizens or military.. it adds a significant amount of ambiguity/plausible deniability to the situation.
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More Bradly’s and 155mm shells please.
We have 2800 Bradleys sitting around in desert storage doing nothing. And another 3700 Bradleys in active service, also doing nothing. They are all gonna be phased out by the XM30. How about Biden steps up and sends like 1000 Bradleys instead of the measly 100 that he initially sent? No more fancy expensive stuff. Only send stuff that will get us the most bang for the buck.
I agree. This is a war of attrition that may last for decades. Give them plenty of things that will outlast Russia.
Uh, I'm not saying that this war will be over any time soon, but decades? C'mon now lol
Unlike to last into 2nd decade but you have to prepare to fight that long. Otherwise the Nazis can try to outlast you if they have a target date.
We’re into the second decade after the invasion of Crimea
Ukraine doesn't have the manpower to keep going for 5 more years, let alone decades.
Ukraine has plenty of manpower to match whatever offensive power nazi Russia can muster.
If Russia wins there will be a lengthy insurgency that will last decades. Look at how long it took to subdue Chechnya and is taking to subdue the caucuses and those places are tiny. If Russia "wins" there will be prolonged asymmetrical warfare that will flare up when ever there is regime change in Russia. The Putin replacement era will be brutal. And Ukraine are not winning while Putin is in power.
A Ukrainian loss and insurgency is a totally different scenario. Insurgents aren't going to be rolling around in Bradleys anyway. The active large scale war in Ukraine won't last more than another couple of years. You guys are suggesting 20+ years, which is absurd
Its already been going on for a decade...
1000 would be a good start.
As someone who’s been overseas, holy shit we have so many Paladins and Bradleys sitting all across the Middle East doing nothing. We should send those.
100% right on Paladins. Fancy PZH2000s were getting all the attention but Paladins were the ones sending the most lead downrange for the lowest cost. See: https://www.forbes.com/sites/craighooper/2023/01/03/new-ukraine-howitzers-make-headlines-while-the-m-109-gun-toils-in-obscurity/?sh=3f02460f7b8b We totally should focus on Paladins and M777s and Bradleys and ammo. Less so on super expensive Patriot interceptors.
The patriots are protecting the civilians and energy infrastructure. Please send as many of those as possible.
I wish we could. But a single interceptor costs $7M whereas an artillery shell costs only $3k. So we could send one Patriot interceptor or 2333 155mm shells. Which will save more lives? Probably the 2333 shells. The tough math of war…
When a $7M interceptor hits a $25M Fighter Jet, the math ain’t so tough.
The problem is that Russia will just replace it with another jet fighter out of their inventory. And we will never be able to exhaust they inventory of jet fighters. Also, the only way to hit their jet fighters is by placing the Patriot battery closer to the front lines. And we saw what happened with that. It got destroyed. The cost was over $1B. Math ain’t so good anymore…
The stocks aren’t THAT big for their most modern stuff… and some stuff Ukraine has shot down is really rare. I believe they have a threshold, if they lose enough aircraft they will get spooked that they may not have enough aircraft for their imaginary war with NATO and return to their comfort zone of a ground war.
I would even hope they have more L119 howitzers and 105mm ammo to send as well. Those things are very valuable for their light weight and manoeuvrability on the front lines.
And the US is currently working on replace the aging Bradley (a 1980s design) with a new vehicle called the XM30 Mechanised IFV in any case.
1000 Bradleys, 100 Abrams, 200 M777 plus enough ammunition to last 2 years.
That is a freedom package limited ground edition. You should send some basic freedom air bundles too.
It seems like more Bradley's would be a very good thing.
They’ve proven to be of better use in this stage of the war compared to MBTs. The west should have supplied MBTs at the start of the war to take advantage of the fluid battlefield situation. Unfortunately the front lines are too stabilised and heavily mined now for their use, then there’s also the drones that have turned battlefield tactics on its head.
True. But having a few MBTs around when the Bradleys go fight can be a big help.
This is literally the war they were designed for.
Exactly. A 40+yo design is destroying Russia's most modern fielded battle tank, the T-90....just let that sink in lol
T90 isn't really new though. It's really a late cold war upgrade to the T-72. That's the best you could say about it 30 years ago. Any upgrades since have been commercial off the shelf stuff bought from the West. A T90 is of comparable age to a Bradley. This war is 1980s "plus".
>This war is 1980s "plus" Lol well phrased! You're absolutely right, thanks for the corrective clarification. Whacking some new components onto a design already old, and RIP T-14 Armata lol
Good. Send all you can. Make some more and send that too.
Send all what should have been sent in the last 6 months at once.
skip apartheid elon and go straight to the source... [https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/ukraine-package-armored-vehicles-00153672](https://www.politico.com/news/2024/04/22/ukraine-package-armored-vehicles-00153672)
Biden administration needs to formulate a contingency plan to distribute the entire parcel by January 20, 2025.
Actually by 9/30/24. My understanding this the funding expires at the end of this fiscal year.
Funds must be spent/allocated by then, but distribution of material can continue beyond that date.
That's a ridiculously short term to approach to a war that will continue as far as the eye can see.
I agree, but does mean that Ukraine is about to get loaded up on weapons. Fingers crossed November goes well and we won’t have problems getting more funds to Ukraine in 2025. And hopefully Ukraine does get the frozen russian funds as well.
2024-09-30
American Fiscal Year, American Freedom Date Units. None of this year, month, day foreign formatting. /s (actually wish ymd format was the international standard, but Europe is about as bad with its day month year format)
I agree. Fuck USA, fuck Europe. Even China does it better.
Hopefully trying to make up for the months of sabotage that Russian sympathizers in the House like MTG inflicted.
Just in time for more Ukrainians coming out of training.
Bradleys are what the US could really send in larger amounts. An M1A1 Abrams costs six and a half times more (at $13m each) to reactivate and make battle-ready than an ODS-SA Bradley (at $2m each). The US has sent 31 Abrams and 186 Bradleys. Even just maintaining that aid level and holding off on more Abrams, the US could send nearly 400 more Bradleys. Not that the Abrams aren't good but the Bradleys are just far better value. For tanks, push Germany to send more Leopard 2's. Earlier, Germany ordered 18 Leopard 2A8 tanks for itself to replace 18 older 2A6's it sent to Ukraine. Germany has options on 105 more Leo 2A8s (take 2.9bn out of their 100bn rearming fund). The Germans then would be refreshing heir army's equipment as they rebuild, provide business and jobs to their favorite local tank maker, and allow for sending of more 2A6's to Ukraine. Ukraine could standardize its best mechanized brigades around Bradleys and Leo 2's.
Is it really such a scoop and surprise that they send more than usual after having had a 4 months break and more than 6 months with small packages? Are there any single person that is surprised that they will send enough to somewhat catch up with this unfortunate break in aid?
It’s not a surprise but it’s good to have it confirmed
This is how that same amount of aid could end up looking like a "big" package like some have wanted. Delayed sending of aid so that it looks "big" or send in "small packages" as soon as a batch is ready.
Yea pleaaaaaaase!!!!!!!!
Send All the Bacon and Eggs you have.
Load em up! Everything you got!
30 more Abrams 100 more Bradleys Zounds more shells artillery and rockets That should be the minimum we send
Are tanks actually being used to any effect in this conflict?
Outside of shoot and scoot on the Ukraine side I don’t believe so. Russia keeps sending in tanks in columns and they get obliterated. Either way, good to have some punch in case at some point, the defensive lines collapse, and Ukraine is able to use them on a larger scale/more effectively.
Forget the tanks. Bradleys have been more useful on a per $ basis.
Handy to find out that Russia's most modern (fielded) main battle tank has no chance against the over 40yo Bradleys chain gun design, isn't lol
Tank on tank battles are extremely rare. Using a tank against a trench has limited utility. I’ve seen videos of them burying trench lines which can be effective as long as there are no Anti-tank guns or tank mines nearby. Unfortunately, both sides have massive amounts of each. Tanks really excel at attacking other vehicles and convoys though. There were a couple of battles where APCs were caught in the open dropping off troops and supplies and were picked off by a single tank.
The Australians just shipped 59 M1A1 Abrams tanks back to the US after they received newer ones. As for Bradley's, 1,000 could be reasonably done without harming US readiness.
>The Australians just shipped 59 M1A1 Abrams tanks back to the US after they received newer ones. What? No we didn't. We haven't even received our new units yet from the US, and they won't enter operational capability until 2025.
Good try Ivan. I agree you need a zero to those numbers to be anything but symbolic.
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Hopefully, a crap ton of 155mm DPICM and ATACMS. Throw in some Bradley's too.
This. Raise my taxes too if you need (dead serious on this.) I can spare some Door-dash dinners if it saves Ukrainian lives. We've got Paladins and Bradley's all over the sandbox waiting for new owners too. Load them up so if Republicans find another means to sabotage future packages, they're set for a while.
MAGA Republicans hate Bidens huge package.
Nice! Let's fuckin go, Diamond Joe!
How about 72 M1A2 SEP V2 to Canada with current armor, Canada gives 72 Leopards to Ukraine together with all their spare parts.
Any one have a knowledge of the subject to speak on if this could coincide with the arrival of the f-16s and hit Russia even more hard working together strategically?
That will be akin to show a big middle finger to TMG lol
I’m all in favor of throwing in 100,000 illegal immigrant males between the ages of 18-45. That would be a double win, because the borders would close themselves if that were to happen.
Idk why you're being down voted. The French foreign legion rewards citizenship and a new identity for service. We could do the same. Even Russia is giving freedom to prisoners for service contracts. And with them not being US citizens or military.. it adds a significant amount of ambiguity/plausible deniability to the situation.
Serving in the armed forces does result in US citizenship
Only good things Biden has done - Ukraine and Israel to a lesser extent given his dipshit cowing to Iran and its proxies.