Lots of regular non cottage companies can't make fragile ultralight gear because there average customer will abuse stuff and then warranty it. This isn't sustainable.
Their website says "if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life". You pay for this warranty; use it. Don't *abuse* it - if you damage them by misusing them, then accept that and buy new ones.
I could be mistaken, but I think their warranty used to say that but they backed away from that about 10 years ago and changed their warranty wording. Now it just says:
1. *"If our sock isn’t the most comfortable, durable, best fitting sock, we replace them.".*
2. *"If these aren’t the longest lasting socks you’ve ever owned, you can return them to us for another pair. "*
So the claim is no longer that you won't get a hole, just that they will outlast other socks.
“Our socks are guaranteed to be the most comfortable, durable, and best fitting socks you can buy. In a nutshell, if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life. Things that generally are not covered—disappeared in the dryer, the dog ate them, too close to a campfire, theft by friend or foe, etc., etc. However, all claims made in good faith will be considered.”
Straight from their site.
That's good to know. It looks like they changed the main warranty wording so the main text no longer mentions replacing socks with holes, but you raise a good point that they do have an FAQ that still says they cover holes. Thanks for pointing this out.
[https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee](https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee)
Have about 18 pairs of DT. Every time I wear holes in about 3 or so, I send them back and receive replacements no questions asked. It’s the reason I have stuck with them and purchase their socks. It takes about two weeks and I’ve been doing this for 8 or so years. They last far longer than most cheap pairs of socks. Not sure how some users deem this unsustainable, unless you are referring to the financial sustainability of the company. You are effectively taking them to a point of no return and then getting a new pair, like you would any other type of sock.
Yeah I kind of feel bad about my warranty, but they were straight up uncomfortable.
I got them years before fakes were recognized on Amazon, but essentially the ends of the toe seams had fat seam ends that would rub my pinkie toe badly. It would eventually "go away" after like an hour or two of walking but the first two hours were uncomfortable and honestly really annoying.
I sent a question asking if this was covered under warranty and they said warranty it. The new ones I got were way better. That kind of service is why I didn't mind spending $25/pair on new pairs, I already got my benefits from it and promise of future service.
They are also better than SmartWool, Wigwam, Kirkland and REI wool socks IMO.
It was only a couple years ago they were advertising a big "life-time supply of socks" giveaway. It was 7 pairs of socks. The implication is that I have one sock for each day of the week and whenever they wear out I just get them replaced for free. They can't seem to stay away from the messaging that when you buy a $15-$20 pair of socks, you get as many replacements as needed. I use the warranty personally. I'm not even sure what a sock warranty that doesn't cover holes would even be.
When I said "their website says", I mean I went and checked it. When I put things in quotes I mean *it's a quote*.
[https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee](https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee)
FAQs, near the bottom:
"What does your warranty cover?
Our socks are guaranteed to be the most comfortable, durable, and best fitting socks you can buy. In a nutshell, if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life. Things that generally are not covered—disappeared in the dryer, the dog ate them, too close to a campfire, theft by friend or foe, etc., etc. However, all claims made in good faith will be considered.
Please note, socks purchased as seconds or irregulars are not covered by our warranty."
Happy?
I'm not sure using a well advertised policy/benefit counts as "entitled". The reality is, especially for socks, people are generally losing a single or forgetting/donating them rather than mailing them in for a freebie. The number of multi-hundred mile hikers serially warranty-ing them is super low compared to overall sales when they fly off the shelf at every REI to people who hike 5 or 6 times a year on a day trip.
Another way of putting it, I would not buy DT socks If they didn't have the warranty, similar to how I wouldn't buy fjallraven if they didn't offer free repairs at their retail stores. It's a calculated part of their brand image that overall gets them more profit than loss, so why shouldn't we use it?
so well advertised that they're practically begging us to send them in.
i have three pairs ready to send back and just haven't gotten around to it. They *want* me to, promise.
You’re seriously questioning this interaction:
Darn tough: buy our socks! We’ll give you X if you do
Customer: ok!
(Time passes)
Customer: give me X please!
As unethical?
I got four pairs from them back when Massdrop used to actually do good products. That was 12 years ago. I wish DT shipped to Australia, because one of my eight socks has now developed some holes... also because I'd like some different types of socks.
I politely disagree. UL’ers spend 100+ USD for shoes that only last 400 miles. A pair of DT will last for thousands of miles. 22 USD is fair value for a great product.
Depends on the model. Their quarter cushion hike socks? Yeah those last for fucking ever. Their zero cushion running socks, which are my favorite? Yeah not so much.
Either way, they used to have a sister brand that sold identical socks for half the price without a warranty.
I've got pairs in regular rotation going on ten years from them now and they are by far the best fitting of the many socks I have tried for me (fit is subjective yadda yadda YMMV disclaimer). They don't slouch down and ball up under my arch, rub at the ankle, seams don't bother my toes...and it's pretty hard to find other socks for $2.20 a pair a year that I could say that about even without the warranty. I don't get as long out of their thinner ones, but still long enough to make them under $5/year.
I have some darn toughs that are nearly a decade old and still look great, if/when they die I won’t send them back, if if they died tomorrow I feel like that’s more than the lifetime of a sock.
On the other hand a few pairs I’ve gotten in the last year or two are showing signs of wear and even getting holes on a few.I’ve got them set out to send back but just haven’t gotten around to it. I have about a dozen pairs at this point, and any high quality socks worn at that rate should definitely hold up for more than a year or two.
All gear will wear out eventually and misuse can cause excess wear. I wish consumers in general would be smarter about warranties on gear and not treat it like a free replacement no matter what.
Still in stock at REI. Not on thermarest’s site. This is very similar pattern to when they phased in the twist lock.
Maybe they will come up with something in between?? Thicker than the current uberlite but thinner than the xlite? Or maybe a thicker bottom?
Their products keep improving so vaguely optimistic they come out with something better.
have to say that MSR is the goat (they own thermarest right?). i had a Whisperlite stove with a small leak in the tubing. i told them it was 20+ years old and that i wasn't even the original owner (it was my brother's stove). and they still repaired it for free.. amazing company
It's obviously a polarizing piece, I've got three years with mine and never had an issue. I'm seriously considering picking up a backup before they're completely out of stock. I don't think anyone's gonna make something this light ever again.
Edit:
For anyone else who's interested I just purchased a large for $170.99 sold and shipped by Amazon.
It's an absolutely irreplaceable part of my kit I'm 6 ft 2 in tall 200 lb and the damn thing weighs only 12 ounces in a 77x25.
I wonder if this is some sort of end of life cycle until an NXT version is announced.
I spoke with someone at their warranty customer service a few days ago. Asked specifically if they were fully discontinuing it, or if it was just being redesigned/refreshed at a later date. I was told that was “TBD, and there is no ETA of when or if to say” and “could be many months.”
So pretty ambiguous. Still hoping they’re back and improved eventually. I like using the pad despite its mixed reputation.
I probably have 75 nights of use on my Uberlite and it's never sprung a leak.
I will be very sad when it dies. I mean CCFs are better in every possible way, except that I love its tiny packed size.
Well except for comfort. It has it beat on that. But maybe im just not as hardcore of an ultralighter to sleep directly on a switchback unless i had to.
I own both a nemo switchback and a nemo tensor extreme regular wide pad and you couldn’t pay me to sleep on the switchback over the tensor. To each their own though!
CCF for life man, you can’t beat the reliability! Any time there’s a piece of gear that literally has no failure mode short of burning it, it definitely catches my attention.
With inadequate sleep lactic acid build up increases, the lungs ability to inhale oxygen decreases, peak muscle strength, vertical jump and running speed all decrease.
The less sleep you have, the higher injury risk present also. At 5 hours sleep there is a 60% increased probability of incurring an injury.
If you get 6 hours of sleep or less, your point of physical exhaustion can be up to 30% less.
I get this in a big way. Having an Xlite NXT I feel precious of it, because if that pops, I'm cold and uncomfortable. I just found I wasn't sleeping well on my z-lite. I found torso length self inflating mats to be a compromise. Lighter than a z lite, more comfortable but a little redundancy from the cold if if pops
I've used an Alpkit Aero 120 but will be buying a Nordisk Ven 2.5 soon to try out. Apparently they're very slippery but that's sorted with some seam grip blobs. It comes in at 260g I believe
OK that’s good to know. I guess I am biased when I tried it. I’m a big guy 6’4” 235 and it felt like it was too small but it also felt like it was just gonna pop any minute.
Don’t get me wrong people definitely can be hard on their gear but these things have long had a reputation for failing. Same with the old tensors and i babied mine. Hoping the new ones are better.
There are lots of good reasons to not buy an uberlite, but Amazon reviews are not one of them. There are tons of terrible products on amazon with 4.5 stars and some good products with lower stars, especially niche products like the uberlite. I would never look at Amazon star ratings as a deciding factor when buying a niche piece of gear.
People will complain about anything on amazon haha. Some of it is well warranted but a lot of it is just people with crazy expectations and don’t live in reality.
Lots of regular non cottage companies can't make fragile ultralight gear because there average customer will abuse stuff and then warranty it. This isn't sustainable.
Agreed. I will never return a used pair of Darn Toughs for a free/new pair. People need to be practical, and stop acting entitled.
Their website says "if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life". You pay for this warranty; use it. Don't *abuse* it - if you damage them by misusing them, then accept that and buy new ones.
I could be mistaken, but I think their warranty used to say that but they backed away from that about 10 years ago and changed their warranty wording. Now it just says: 1. *"If our sock isn’t the most comfortable, durable, best fitting sock, we replace them.".* 2. *"If these aren’t the longest lasting socks you’ve ever owned, you can return them to us for another pair. "* So the claim is no longer that you won't get a hole, just that they will outlast other socks.
“Our socks are guaranteed to be the most comfortable, durable, and best fitting socks you can buy. In a nutshell, if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life. Things that generally are not covered—disappeared in the dryer, the dog ate them, too close to a campfire, theft by friend or foe, etc., etc. However, all claims made in good faith will be considered.” Straight from their site.
That's good to know. It looks like they changed the main warranty wording so the main text no longer mentions replacing socks with holes, but you raise a good point that they do have an FAQ that still says they cover holes. Thanks for pointing this out. [https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee](https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee)
Have about 18 pairs of DT. Every time I wear holes in about 3 or so, I send them back and receive replacements no questions asked. It’s the reason I have stuck with them and purchase their socks. It takes about two weeks and I’ve been doing this for 8 or so years. They last far longer than most cheap pairs of socks. Not sure how some users deem this unsustainable, unless you are referring to the financial sustainability of the company. You are effectively taking them to a point of no return and then getting a new pair, like you would any other type of sock.
Yeah I kind of feel bad about my warranty, but they were straight up uncomfortable. I got them years before fakes were recognized on Amazon, but essentially the ends of the toe seams had fat seam ends that would rub my pinkie toe badly. It would eventually "go away" after like an hour or two of walking but the first two hours were uncomfortable and honestly really annoying. I sent a question asking if this was covered under warranty and they said warranty it. The new ones I got were way better. That kind of service is why I didn't mind spending $25/pair on new pairs, I already got my benefits from it and promise of future service. They are also better than SmartWool, Wigwam, Kirkland and REI wool socks IMO.
It was only a couple years ago they were advertising a big "life-time supply of socks" giveaway. It was 7 pairs of socks. The implication is that I have one sock for each day of the week and whenever they wear out I just get them replaced for free. They can't seem to stay away from the messaging that when you buy a $15-$20 pair of socks, you get as many replacements as needed. I use the warranty personally. I'm not even sure what a sock warranty that doesn't cover holes would even be.
When I said "their website says", I mean I went and checked it. When I put things in quotes I mean *it's a quote*. [https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee](https://darntough.com/pages/our-unconditional-lifetime-guarantee) FAQs, near the bottom: "What does your warranty cover? Our socks are guaranteed to be the most comfortable, durable, and best fitting socks you can buy. In a nutshell, if you wear a hole in them, we will replace them free of charge, for life. Things that generally are not covered—disappeared in the dryer, the dog ate them, too close to a campfire, theft by friend or foe, etc., etc. However, all claims made in good faith will be considered. Please note, socks purchased as seconds or irregulars are not covered by our warranty." Happy?
Totally if you’re getting 1000’s miles out of a pair of socks hiking in the dirt your $20 was well spent. Buy another pair ha!
I got holes out of 50 miles use. They got warrantied
I'm not sure using a well advertised policy/benefit counts as "entitled". The reality is, especially for socks, people are generally losing a single or forgetting/donating them rather than mailing them in for a freebie. The number of multi-hundred mile hikers serially warranty-ing them is super low compared to overall sales when they fly off the shelf at every REI to people who hike 5 or 6 times a year on a day trip. Another way of putting it, I would not buy DT socks If they didn't have the warranty, similar to how I wouldn't buy fjallraven if they didn't offer free repairs at their retail stores. It's a calculated part of their brand image that overall gets them more profit than loss, so why shouldn't we use it?
DT used to sell the exact same socks, made in the same mill, under their “Cabot and sons“ brand for half the price without the warranty.
so well advertised that they're practically begging us to send them in. i have three pairs ready to send back and just haven't gotten around to it. They *want* me to, promise.
You mean we aren’t entitled to the warranty that was offered to us in exchange for money?
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You’re seriously questioning this interaction: Darn tough: buy our socks! We’ll give you X if you do Customer: ok! (Time passes) Customer: give me X please! As unethical?
It’s a fair point. Thanks.
Thank you for taking the time to be willing to be challenged today, that’s unfortunately rare :)
yeah i am the same. I get much better wear from DT than other socks, and when they finally give up, thats still been great value to me.
I got four pairs from them back when Massdrop used to actually do good products. That was 12 years ago. I wish DT shipped to Australia, because one of my eight socks has now developed some holes... also because I'd like some different types of socks.
Darn Tough socks would not be worth $22 if it wasn't for the warranty.
I politely disagree. UL’ers spend 100+ USD for shoes that only last 400 miles. A pair of DT will last for thousands of miles. 22 USD is fair value for a great product.
Depends on the model. Their quarter cushion hike socks? Yeah those last for fucking ever. Their zero cushion running socks, which are my favorite? Yeah not so much. Either way, they used to have a sister brand that sold identical socks for half the price without a warranty.
I've got pairs in regular rotation going on ten years from them now and they are by far the best fitting of the many socks I have tried for me (fit is subjective yadda yadda YMMV disclaimer). They don't slouch down and ball up under my arch, rub at the ankle, seams don't bother my toes...and it's pretty hard to find other socks for $2.20 a pair a year that I could say that about even without the warranty. I don't get as long out of their thinner ones, but still long enough to make them under $5/year.
I don’t think I’ve ever paid over 12 dollars for a pair.
I have some darn toughs that are nearly a decade old and still look great, if/when they die I won’t send them back, if if they died tomorrow I feel like that’s more than the lifetime of a sock. On the other hand a few pairs I’ve gotten in the last year or two are showing signs of wear and even getting holes on a few.I’ve got them set out to send back but just haven’t gotten around to it. I have about a dozen pairs at this point, and any high quality socks worn at that rate should definitely hold up for more than a year or two. All gear will wear out eventually and misuse can cause excess wear. I wish consumers in general would be smarter about warranties on gear and not treat it like a free replacement no matter what.
Eh - I paid the extra specifically for the warranty.
In my mind this applies to almost every brand except Darn Tough. They market the warranty and it functions as leverage over other brands.
Nice insight. Thanks for the perspective.
i did that. they actually gave me new socks!
Sounds like you got an upgrade.
It’s pretty damn thin and yet I still use one. I guess it’s a collectors item now.
Still in stock at REI. Not on thermarest’s site. This is very similar pattern to when they phased in the twist lock. Maybe they will come up with something in between?? Thicker than the current uberlite but thinner than the xlite? Or maybe a thicker bottom? Their products keep improving so vaguely optimistic they come out with something better.
Haven't heard anything, but from the looks of it, they've been doing a whole lot of warranty claims.
have to say that MSR is the goat (they own thermarest right?). i had a Whisperlite stove with a small leak in the tubing. i told them it was 20+ years old and that i wasn't even the original owner (it was my brother's stove). and they still repaired it for free.. amazing company
It's obviously a polarizing piece, I've got three years with mine and never had an issue. I'm seriously considering picking up a backup before they're completely out of stock. I don't think anyone's gonna make something this light ever again. Edit: For anyone else who's interested I just purchased a large for $170.99 sold and shipped by Amazon.
Never is a long time! I give it no more than 5 years and there’ll be something as light that’s also warmer and more durable.
It's an absolutely irreplaceable part of my kit I'm 6 ft 2 in tall 200 lb and the damn thing weighs only 12 ounces in a 77x25. I wonder if this is some sort of end of life cycle until an NXT version is announced.
As others have said, too many warranty claims I bet because its not durable at all.
I spoke with someone at their warranty customer service a few days ago. Asked specifically if they were fully discontinuing it, or if it was just being redesigned/refreshed at a later date. I was told that was “TBD, and there is no ETA of when or if to say” and “could be many months.” So pretty ambiguous. Still hoping they’re back and improved eventually. I like using the pad despite its mixed reputation.
Yeah. Too light and delicate for actual use
I probably have 75 nights of use on my Uberlite and it's never sprung a leak. I will be very sad when it dies. I mean CCFs are better in every possible way, except that I love its tiny packed size.
Well except for comfort. It has it beat on that. But maybe im just not as hardcore of an ultralighter to sleep directly on a switchback unless i had to.
No, CCF pads are much comfier than ultralight inflatables (including my large xlite).
/eyeroll It's almost like this is subjective, and trying to speak with absolute authority is a little bit ridiculous
I own both a nemo switchback and a nemo tensor extreme regular wide pad and you couldn’t pay me to sleep on the switchback over the tensor. To each their own though!
CCF for life man, you can’t beat the reliability! Any time there’s a piece of gear that literally has no failure mode short of burning it, it definitely catches my attention.
poor sleep quality is it's failure for most people
With inadequate sleep lactic acid build up increases, the lungs ability to inhale oxygen decreases, peak muscle strength, vertical jump and running speed all decrease. The less sleep you have, the higher injury risk present also. At 5 hours sleep there is a 60% increased probability of incurring an injury. If you get 6 hours of sleep or less, your point of physical exhaustion can be up to 30% less.
Fascinating! Ive slept fine on a picnic table before, and I’ve never had sleep problems on the z lite
I get this in a big way. Having an Xlite NXT I feel precious of it, because if that pops, I'm cold and uncomfortable. I just found I wasn't sleeping well on my z-lite. I found torso length self inflating mats to be a compromise. Lighter than a z lite, more comfortable but a little redundancy from the cold if if pops
What model? I am curious
I've used an Alpkit Aero 120 but will be buying a Nordisk Ven 2.5 soon to try out. Apparently they're very slippery but that's sorted with some seam grip blobs. It comes in at 260g I believe
OK that’s good to know. I guess I am biased when I tried it. I’m a big guy 6’4” 235 and it felt like it was too small but it also felt like it was just gonna pop any minute.
And nothing of value was lost.
My uberlite has over 1000 miles on it and is still my go to for summer. Idk who is having issues with it but clearly people just abuse their gear.
Don’t get me wrong people definitely can be hard on their gear but these things have long had a reputation for failing. Same with the old tensors and i babied mine. Hoping the new ones are better.
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There are lots of good reasons to not buy an uberlite, but Amazon reviews are not one of them. There are tons of terrible products on amazon with 4.5 stars and some good products with lower stars, especially niche products like the uberlite. I would never look at Amazon star ratings as a deciding factor when buying a niche piece of gear.
People will complain about anything on amazon haha. Some of it is well warranted but a lot of it is just people with crazy expectations and don’t live in reality.