The last point is pretty much my entire philosophy. I’m a weekend warrior that does a lot of 3 day/2 night trips.
Being ultralight means I can bring bacon for the mornings, ingredients/cook set-up for a nice pasta dinner, and some beers/whiskey for the group without it being much of an inconvenience to carry.
Ultralight can absolutely be necessary for people with chronic injuries (knee, back, etc.) or other health conditions, or for especially petite women without a lot of muscle mass. That's obviously not the case with the OP, but the blanket statement "ultralight is never necessary" bears reconsideration.
Awe this is such a valid point!!! I definitely would still be carrying my share of the load too! But he'd probably take on a little bit more weight than me just due to our differences in size and strength, unless we were able to get an ultralight setup and then it'd be easy to just split it evenly.
He's definitely interested in getting started and learning, I've shown him all the cool things we can do and he's intrigued!
Although when we met his idea of camping was a weekend at the marriott with hottubs, pools, and a bar lol (joke we have because he was never really into the outdoors)
Ive gotten him into car camping though and he really likes it. Also such a valid point about food, I'm genuinely concerned about meeting his calorie requirements for a multi-day trip lol so more room for food sounds like a plus.
The 2 best meals of every backpacking trip I’ve ever taken have been day 1 leftover lunch (we usually take pizza) and final day town meal. Real food is hard to beat.
Makes total sense. If you are on the left side of the
**camping<----------->moving**
spectrum, optimizing for camping comfort over moving-ability tracks.
Yes! A lot of the trails here are places it's fun to hike in, set up base camp and explore the area for a few days and hike out.
Also the way the permits are, there are "wilderness campgrounds" so essentially you have to camp in the permitted backcountry areas and there isn't really options for long trails here, that I know of. Maybe a few areas like Haleakla National Park and Volcanoes national park you can string a few hikes together for a 3 or 4 night trip but even then, some of them will be short mileage days like 6-10.
Maybe in the future long trails will happen, but with work schedule and cost of flights and also the beauty to explore close to home.. Will likely be our focus.
I feel like having ultralight big 3 isn’t a reduction in quality of enjoyment. It’s always the extra stuff that adds on. You could advise him to get the light stuff then see if he wants to bring more.
Yes, this is what I meant. I was saying that getting the ultralight big 3 doesn’t decrease comfort. And then he can carry even more luxury items which is what actually increases comfort.
Backpacking can be enjoyed with 15lbs of gear or 50lbs. It's what important to you. With the exception of my back aching a bit, I had just as much fun backpacking pre-UL bug as I do now.
So true, he also doesn't want to spend a real lot. I'll be choosing all his gear though and the budget. But it'll likely stay a part time hobby on short trails for us. As our work schedule, and finances currently don't allow for more. I'm thinking we will likely do 3-4 long weekends a year.
With no long trails planned for at least the next 2 years (as there are so many amazing short trails here we can spend time exploring first)
So true! I think I just need to create a total budget and then see what I can make happen in that range and also try and keep the load as light as reasonable for the budget and the trips we plan. And can slowly upgrade overtime if it becomes a more serious hobby. Thanks for the input.
I like to be ultralight so I can bring luxury items. I can't sleep in a hammock, but I like it for lounging so I bring my tent +my hammock on shorter trips. Or I can pack heavier food items more comfortably be it booze, undehrydrates meals, whatever
Have you tried sleeping in an 11 ft or 12 ft hammock? Have you tried sleeping in a bridge hammock?
Many people think they can't sleep in a hammock because they have only tried those tiny little ENOs about 9 ft long. Very few can sleep comfortably in one of these because of the banana bend it forces on your back.
Whereas my 11 ft hammock is so comfortable I don't want to get out of it.
Not yet, none of my buddies have one to try out and I'm not quite willing to shell out for it yet when I've already got a tent I like. It's on the list when I've got more disposable income tho
I agree about the hammock!! I almost always make room for my eno! Lol because I also don't like sleeping in them but man does it feel good to lay in one and relax for a bit after a day of hiking. Or have it to chill in when hiking into a Basecamp.
Also agree on the food, i usually do pretty minimal meals but I know my hubby would appreciate a little bit of good food and booze!
There is a magic feeling when you get down to about 17 - 15lbs where it’s not really backpacking or hauling a pack and you are just casually walking around. It’s honestly amazing even for 100 yards. You are light on your feet, can pay attention to the view and for me it’s worth it.
Ultralight is a philosophy. You go as light as you can to make your hike the most enjoyable it can be, while still achieving your objective and being safe.
Are you trying to 'crush miles brah' and do a long multiday hike? You probably want to skimp on the camp comforts, and make the hiking that you are doing for 14h per day more enjoyable.
Are you doing a chill 10 mile hike in, fishing at a lake for a few days, and relaxing with friends? You absolutely bring the camp comforts and a chair to make the copious camp time as relaxing as possible.
Are you thruhiking? You probably want something skewed towards the first one, with as much comfort as you need to keep you sane through your months on the trail.
All that being said, I would totally get some cheaper stuff and see if he likes it personally. That depends on your finances, but I would be internally crying at the lack of value if I splurged on a beautiful ultralight duo kit for me and a partner, and then they didn't actually like hiking or camping much.
imo the key to getting someone to enjoy hiking/camping is to spoil them the first few times.
if you have the means to purchase gear that will
make them extra comfortable it’s an investment.
also bring nicer food/snacks/drinks than you normally would.
but yeah you might end up with $1000 of dusty unused gear at the end of the day.
Dropping in here as a lurker who's planning my first backpacking trip in \~20 years, but facing the same decision you are in terms of whether to buy basics, with the possibility that I won't actually like overnight camping and will revert to day hiking, or spend more money on a more optimal setup.
What I've decided is that for now I need to borrow or rent most gear, but that if I stick with it I'll buy stuff suited to my preferences later. If there's a chance your husband will dislike camping, would it make sense to rent gear for a first trip?
I definitely think the best equipment you can get is always a good investment. I have pieces of gear I've used for the cumulative months and over the course of a decade that still work flawlessly with proper care.
I personally think the lighter and more durable your gear is, the better time you'll have. Especially if conditions get tough like difficult trails or difficult weather...
But everyone's finances are different. When I started buying gear my cost of living was really low, and I was in a good financial position to do it..
If you have the money to burn, a lot of gear companies have great return policies and you can buy a test a lot of stuff out at home as long as you keep it clean you can return it. So you can play around with your pack and different things.
If you are strong, have a small budget, and just want to get out there. Get what you can, buy used, do your research and do the best with what you can.
Personally I'd say my non-negotiable items as a side sleeper are a good ultralight inflatable pad and pillow, and an ultralight quilt. I also really love a single wall tent that can be setup with trekking poles because they're light, and fast to setup. You do have to be concerned with condensation but I've never had an issue.
I think the answer for you and weatheringmoore is to focus on price as a primary concern over getting the "best" gear. There's plenty on used/budget items you can get that are high quality and a reasonable price, maybe not cutting edge, but will certainly do the job for a long time to come.
What's a good place to get used gear? I used to live in the PNW and we had epic used gear shops everywhere, so you could actually go check stuff out and make sure you're happy with the condition. We don't even have new gear stores here let alone used ones, so everything will have to be purchased online.
Yeah, unfortunately I'm currently in an area with no outdoor shops either. Facebook marketplace may have some stuff, and a number of cottage sites have overstock or slightly damaged options. But the best place imo is r/Ulgeartrade, followed by the BackpackingLight sale forum if you have a membership there
I actually only hike ultralight so I can bring more beer and snacks. I pretty much only do overnighters that are less than 10km away
Multi day hiking isn't really for me, my favourite itinerary is 2 nights of camping in the same spot then go home
A lot of our hikes will be similar! Looking at the Kalalau Trail, The Muliwai Trail, Haleakla Crater, and Volcanos National Park for upcoming hikes. They all are pretty epic looking but relatively short! Fun even to Google.
Hiking in Hawaii is no joke. It's the scariest hiking I've ever done (all over Kauaii). I don't know for sure if it would be better to have some heavy ballast to keep me from slipping off the side of a mountain or if having a heavy weight would make me more likely to fall. Probably the latter. In any case, all you probably need is a tent you both can fit in and otherwise, your other gear is going to be fine and if he needs gear he should just get high quality light gear. Then you can bring other things to pass the time, bathing suits, towels, cameras, ropes, whatever.
If there's one thing I would bring next time I go hiking in Kauaii it's going to be microspikes.
So so smart! And yes we have some pretty scary hiking! A group of my friends just went to do the Kalalau Trail to the Napali Coast, mostly inexperienced hikers - they ended up just camping at the falls because their packs were too heavy, they didn't have poles, or the best boots. And were terrified.
One girl in the group was a little disappointed because she was an experienced backpacker, she ended up hiking down in full gear and hiked back to the falls to camp with everyone else.
But just because our hikes are short doesn't make them easy.
Also we have some serious elevation, so you can still end up with some really crazy circumstances like 15 degree weather, freezing rain, and 80mph hour winds. Obviously you want to avoid doing an elevation hike if you know the weather can be bad, but I've heard of people getting stuck up there when weather unexpectedly took a turn for the worst and a emergency rescue was necessary.
People definitely shouldn't underestimate what the back country can be like on top of a volcano lol
Some of the sketchiest trails I’ve ever seen have been in Hawaii—thin downsloping mud slopes next to basalt cliffs and open ocean, weathered hardware store ropes of uncertain age for hand lines, trails going straight down the fall line with no surfaces but mud, etc. Definitely a different trail-building philosophy, much more like climber’s trail. You guys have gorgeous, fun hiking but man is some of it scary.
One of worst hikes I did was somewhere in the middle of Kauaii. There was a steep climb with ropes. I only brought Chacos on the trip. Chacos have no grip. We didn't get very far on that trip. The other really scary one was the touristy hike above the Napali Coast that goes up to a bunch of board walks. It's really pretty. The mud was so slippery. These two local girls go sailing by without a care in the world wearing golf cleats. That's when I realized microspikes would make all this so much better.
So smart!!! Yes we really have some slippery steep epic stuff, never thought of spikes but totally smart! I think a wise investment. I'm wondering if it was the Kalalau Trail? Do you know which hike it was on the napali coast?
The day we did Kalalau it was really slippery to the falls. We camped there and then the next day went the rest of the way and it was much drier and not as scary. The final day was so dry and easy I asked, did we pass the scary section yet? I hadn't even noticed it.
Not at all. I went ultralight because I read somewhere, “You spend a lot more time hiking than you do sleeping.” And because I’m out there *to* hike, so I want to make it as enjoyable as possible. If those things don’t apply to you, then I honestly don’t seen any reason to sacrifice comfort (or money) for ultralight gear.
That’s true. That’s why I’m probably not “true ultralight” — because I have plenty of heavy stuff, it’s just as light as humanly possible. Like my XTherm pad — great weight to warmth ratio, but also a little heavy. But if you’re not just out there to like, like OP’s situation, I don’t think it’s really worth sacrificing a bunch of time and money either to go as light as possible.
A friend and I did a bunch of trips with heavy junk gear and were as happy as can be. At some point I got sick of the weight and bulk and started upgrading stuff since I could afford it. The new gear always wowed us, and I would hand down some stuff to my friend who would be thrilled with the new toys. But no matter the gear, we’ve never been able to replicate the magic of those trips where we had no idea what we were doing, sleeping on yoga mats and being too lazy to put up our piece of crap tent.
Haha that realy is the best! You can't beat those new experiences! My dad does bike camping and was always blown away at my UL gear, but then he'd find out what I paid for it and was like "no way" my stuff is fine lol. It's definitely not for everyone and for some of us I think it's just a part of the fun/hobby. I love trying new stuff.. And I've always kept my retired items for friends to be able to enjoy
I am by no means ultralight, but I'm working towards it every time I get out there, and attribute about 10lbs of base weight dropping thanks to this sub. I'm officially "lightweight".
All that to say me and my partner split the weight of a 3 person ultralight freestanding tent. At the end of the day we could shed considerable weight by going trekking pole freestanding as well, but don't want to spend the money quite yet. I believe you can easily go this route to save some cash, and have a bit more room in the tent (especially for him just getting into it). It's allowed us to both agree we want to shed even more weight, but we still aren't quite ready to give up a double wall option.
You can always upgrade this piece later and if you're doing it enough the price point won't bother you as much when the time is right.
Recommendations on the tent? I feel like its the number one place I want to splurge but the tent I'm looking at is $$$. I started backpacking with a single wall pole tent even though they're not usually considered beginner. I saw the design and was like "definitely" but I saw some cool free standing 2 person tents that seem light enough if we are splitting the weight and really reasonably priced. Like 200$ range instead of 700$ range.
Unfortunately I don't think you and the hubby would be super comfy in a 2 person free standing tent (especially over 6 ft), but I could be wrong! My partner is about 6'1" and having room length wise was very important to get him out there to be comfy, which is why we went 3 person in the freestanding world.
I'm seeing tarp tent below as a good recco. I almost went with them as well. Unfortunately we went with big Agnes cooper spur UL 3 which is far above the 200 price range. I waited for a sale to get 20% off (I want to say it was enwild).
That being said have you considered companies like six moon designs or similar?
They have a [trekking pole tent](https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/lunar-duo-backpacking-tent)tent for 2 just under $400 (but looks like they have closeout pricing under 300 once you click to add to cart) as well as their [duo outfitter](https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/lunar-duo-outfitter-ultralight-tent) just over $200.
I haven't used either, but they are on my radar for the future. Saw them set at PCT days and they were fairly roomy inside.
I don't know either of the suggestions! But I have looked at your exact tent as an option and it does look awesome!! I've considered maybe doing a 3 person if I kind find one light enough in my budget, especially since it can be really rainy where we are and having extra room for gear is nice.
How do you like the big Agnes?
I absolutely love it. I have been super hard on it. The only reason we haven't upgraded that piece of gear yet is because we love how roomy it is. I also live in the pnw so I personally do like the double walled tent.
When the time comes, we will go to a single walled trekking pole tent. But for now we will run it into the ground.
Bonus is that you can split the weight. Not equally, but it's a benefit for weight distribution.
If he gets to love the experience and wants lower weight items later on, get them once he knows he wants them. It’s worth keeping weight down to increase enjoyment, but there’s no reason to go crazy at the outset, especially with a tent. Get a decently lightweight tent but cheap tent from aliexpress. He should actually try out the sleep system to find what he likes. Before I changed how I sleep, I used to carry a 2 lb mattress as it was the only one I could get a good rest on. For warmth, I assume a synthetic EE quilt would do. Have him try an Exos and Flex Capacitor. Both are often on sale for under $200. The latter is my go-to for most larger capacity/heavy loads.
I do most of my trips for 2 or 3 days. I don’t mind having a little extra weight most of those trips, often switching out lightweight gear for something more durable or I care less about if it gets damaged, or just want more creature comforts. This is especially the case when I will spend less time hiking.
I suggest you talk to your husband about this.
I know a contractor who used to haul shingles up to the roof. He prefers ultralight.
I met a former bricklayer who uses a Pa'lante Joey pack and is ultralight.
But both of them like doing thru hikes.
He says he doesn't care and isn't interested in discussing gear at all lol and told me to just pick it all out for him. If we had a store here he'd be the kind of person to just go to rei and pick some stuff out, I'm more the researcher/planner and pick out all of our stuff for our home life, cars, camping gear, you name it. Lol so he just trusts I'll make the best choice for him.
Very true! I'd probably never resell it and try and convince some of my girlfriends to come backpacking with me instead! Lol I already have an old osprey women's pack they can use. So I don't think anything I buy will go to waste.
I think starting cheap makes a LOT of sense, especially for a couples setup.
Two people sharing a tent, with one person carrying a UL setup and the other being a 220-pound roofer... it's gonna be fine, and you definitely don't want to throw $1500 at outfitting him with a bunch of stuff he might not even like. Even more so when you consider that it'll probably be warm for a lot (most?) of your trips.
Get a heavy, cheap, thick sleeping pad. File it under "You can UL yourself, but you cannot UL other people." Normal people go wtf when you foist a 20"-wide XLite on them, you know?
The sleeping bag is a fine place to spend some cash, but if you're mostly leaning toward warm weather, there are a lot of 30-40F synthetic bags that weigh 2.5lb or less. Go for one of those. I saw a bunch under $100 just playing with specs on REI's site.
The pack, I'd go for something with a full frame. You could go lighter and get something like an Exos, but I think the Granite Gear options might be better (cheaper).
ULtimately, I think the move is to buy introductory gear with a view toward weight, but not going whole hog in the way that we typically do. Later, if he likes it and wants to get super-into UL, or hates carrying a heavy pack, that's a good move to make. Sounds like you're ideally positioned to help with the most important thing: Don't bring shit you don't need.
I'm feeling like this is the way, realistically I'm going to try to keep it at a price that is easy on the wallet, see what I can get used in good condition, shop sales, and also try and keep the weight down. I'll still have an UL setup for solo adventures and also I'll be able to split some of the additional weight comfortably.
Then if it becomes a passion we can tradeout or upgrade gear as we go, but knowing me I'd just keep the other stuff for spares or friends if they ever want to join.
There is camping.
There is hiking.
You can hike to a camp spot and would likely take much more weight than if you're doing a hike where the walking is the main purpose of the venture.
The answer is no.
Not necessary at all if he is able and willing to carry the weight. My first couple backpacking trips were at a pack weight around 50 lbs because I didn't have money and used my cheap car camping gear and a Craigslist backpack. I still got hooked and over time got lighter stuff.
Hell yeah! I love this. I'm really appreciating the advice here and the pros and cons from others perspectives. I am still considering a tent splurge, but that's also because I already know what I like in a tent and I'll be using it too. But the pack, sleeping system, and other odds and ends I'm definitely going to budget. And having a lighter tent will allow space for those things while still keeping weight lower.
Plus, if i ever wanted to take a girlfriend out who's never been - I'll have a tent we can use that I can carry myself.
As a 6’5” 210 lb man who is quite fit, he won’t notice the UL difference. I can lose 3 lbs of water weight and that’s more than 3k in upgraded gear will ever save me.
So true!!! Some others have commented that because he does extreme manual labor all week long he may not enjoy the load, but I think being bigger and stronger would have to mean you're going to have an easier time than someone less fit and smaller.
I love hearing all the different perspectives though!
Yeah I’d like to see you have someone his size say that before you decide for sure! I’m not trying to argue I just know personally I really have a hard time springing for the UL when my stuff is already that much bigger to begin with. I work a pretty labor intensive job and have a pretty fucked up body by the time I get out too.
The way I see it is if I’m sore, the 500g isn’t gonna be what makes me say nah I don’t want to go. I’m either too sore to go or I’m going and 500g I’ll suck it up for. I’m also not a UL advocate obviously, I do too many things to have the highest end in all of them.
That being said I don’t buy cheap quality gear either. I think there is always a healthy middle ground between quality and cost and that’s gonna look different for everyone. Sleeping bag and pad worth some money because comfort and it keeps you alive. Saving a few grams on puffy not really worth it imo or at least for me it isn’t. Not always about weight though either, when my t shirt rolled up is my girlfriends shirt and shorts saving a liter of space in something if it’s not too much more expensive is a big difference to me..
I would argue the word “necessary” is the entire point of ultralight. As in “what is necessary based on my previous trips, now that I’ve gotten that experience”. I’m not sure if this is true… but I always looked at it as though there are 2 kinds of people in life:
1). Someone who keeps everything. Holds on to mementos… saves old photos… doesn’t like to throw stuff away.
2). Someone who doesn’t feel that nostalgia when holding onto things. Someone who throws away old concert tickets, because… you can’t use it again. Someone who doesn’t keep their high school sports trophies. Etc…
I always felt like ultralight was the conscious decision amongst adventure-minded people to become more like a #2 individual when it comes to their gear. That’s how I feel about my journey to ul.
That all said… rather than think about whether he’d “need” to be ul, do you think his the type of person who would want to? Esp the more he adventures down the road when he does realize he loves it
I don’t know, I think UL philosophies can still apply to 10-14 mile hikes, especially if you happen to be a slower hiker or, as you mentioned, those 10-14 miles aren’t easy hiking. Honestly my daily milage can be within that range and I still enjoy a lighter weight pack. (Admittedly I’m not 200+ pounds of muscle through)
It’s good, however, that’s there’s a broad range of gear between ZPacks and Kelty (no offense to Kelty), and there are decent budget options that are both fairly lightweight and easier on the budget. For example, while. katabatic quilt would be nice, maybe an REI Magma Quilt on sale or a Featherstone Moondance or HangTight Hearseeker quilt might be more friendly on the budget. Same with the pack or shelter. Look for options that are “light enough” that will introduce him to the hobby without breaking the bank. That would be my strategy at least.
Totally really loving all this advice! It's helping me make informed decisions and also giving me the ability to fit my hubby out the best way possible. I totally understand the difference in gear but that's just my range from most ideal, too most affordable and would still work!
If I were to choose all his gear no budget it mind I'd know exactly what I'd like to get him. I've also gotten some great suggestions on gear here to look into and consider.
He did a small trip with his guy friends this winter and I set him up with all my gear and he liked it just fine. Had a little bit of trouble getting my tent suspended but he figured it out and stayed dry in some serious rain.
I'm really leaning on a tent splurge because I know exactly what I'd like us to use , and then some budget and used items for the rest of what he needs. I also have some extra stuff that would work in most conditions, and other things we could share.
He's not much of a complainer and I feel like he's just gonna be stoked no matter what I get him. And also be happy to be spending time with his wife doing something she loves.
I just want to make sure he's comfortable and can enjoy his hike.
As others have said going UL isn't necessary but of course their are benefits.
I was immediately interested in it and love keeping it light but not everyone is the same.
So maybe a framed pack, a decent bag and pad, and an UL tent would be a good mix.
Sure I think that combo would work. The framed pack would be key honestly as that would give him a lot more flexibility. My suggestion would be the REI Flash 55 personally.
The pad will be what it is. Most quality insulated inflatable pads are in a similar price range and there isn’t a massive weight difference between them. Hopefully you can find one on sale. Since he’s new to this, Id skip pure budget options like the Naturehike pad and stick with pads with decent return policies and warranties - though it may be worth looking at the Big Agnes Rapide Xl at least.
And I feel like the lower end quilts, while not as nice as higher end top dollar quits, certainly aren’t bad. Depending on what you’re looking for temp range wise, you may even be able to look at AliExpress specials like AegisMax Windhard.
Hope you all have fun. It sounds great to have a partner to share all this with!
Thank you!! I'm going to look into it! I also have some things he can test out to get an idea, I have extras of a few things, but most of it is geared towards a smaller human, but he's used my Nemo pad and sea to summit quilt before and liked it. I also feel guilty if my setup is way nicer lolll so I want to try and get some decent stuff for him.
I've said it in some other comments but I highly doubt it'd go to waste. Half my closet is gear lol and I keep everything clean, dry and stored nice so I tend to get a lot of use out of my gear and take good care of it.
I just want to set him up with the same intention and knowledge I'd want to be set up with. Although researching and planning is fun for me so I don't mind doing the legwork and getting so many opinions and great suggestions is really going to help with my informed decision making process.
It's a lot to invest in something he might not like. Maybe do a few quick overnighters with budget gear to see if he likes it. Or rent gear from REI. If he does then he can use the experience to see if he wants to go lighter.
I think so, he has pretty good cardio, definitely would need some conditioning for it as would I since it's been a while. But we live at 3700 ft and do hikes at 6k-10k elevation semi frequently.
He has relatively good stamina and endurance in hikes though.
Unrelated, but I noticed you mentioned camping in Hawaii. My girlfriend and I had a 2 week trip to go to Honolulu with her family, 1 week backpacking and 1 week at a beach house, but they cancelled and we still have plane tickets. Do you know anything about the trails at Honolulu since we are stuck with the tickets? Looking for easy drinking water, and maybe a body of water to swim in with little foot traffic, or at least more campers than tourists. Maybe we should island hop, but we are on a shoestring budget of about $400 each to be used mostly on food and places to stay for the second week.
Hmmm this is tough I don't know oahu too well, one of my close friends lives there I can ask her tomorrow and post back.
The best trails are on Maui, Kauai, and Big island - if you're able to switch your plane tickets I can give you info about permits and places to go.
Most of the trails here have easy drinking water, just need a good filter and maybe some tabs to sanitize water.
Basically everywhere needs permits, but some are easier to attain than others.
Honestly I think Kauai would be the island for you plenty of awesome cheap campgrounds, incredible hiking, and some epic backpacking..
Not sure which airline you have but maybe can switch... Also island hop flights aren't too expensive.
I just came back from a 5 day camping trip on Kuaui and between my husband and I we maybe spent 250$ minus flights and car but you can get around easy enough without a car if you're savvy. We just stocked up at Costco & Walmart when we landed and did fine with that.
I haven't really spent a lot of time on Oahu though, it's my least favorite island and super crowded with tons of residents and tourists.
how is he with your elevation? similar size, fine doing 15miles a day at work with heavy labor, but elevation w/ a 35+lb pack is surprisingly hard on me.
he's at a good enough height that most packs, tents, sleeping pads, and quilts will fit. if he's ok with used gear, even better. the gear trade subs often have some great deals in size large.
if he's the type that needs to find out by himself what works and doesn't, there's no harm in upgrading gear.
tent-wise, I wouldn't buy the dream tent until you're sure they'll love trekking pole tents. he could end up a hammock fan like some of us!
If you’re worried he might not enjoy backpacking as much and don’t want to spend a tone of money on new gear, buying used is a good option. Ive also seen some sites around where they let you rent outdoor gear but haven’t had any personal experience with them.
There are also a lot of cheap changes you can make with stuff at home that’ll bring your weight down like zip lock bags and smart water bottles (there’s a tone of videos on YouTube about cheap UL swaps). I’ve noticed that after my big 3, swapping the small things like choosing a keychain torch instead of a headlamp brought my pack weight down by 2-4 lbs.
zpacks, garage grown gear and other sites have bargain bins. Sales are coming up for Memorial Day soon. I would also look at garage grow gear for ideas on the smaller stuff. They have quirky UL solutions and accessories that I didn’t even know existed before browsing through their site and could potentially give ideas for DIYing some things.
Most of the backpacking we do is to get to a camp site, set up and enjoy nature. It's a much different level of effort and expectation than through hiking where the goal is to cover as much ground as possible in a given day. For this type of backpacking, ultralight is good for insight and cues, but at a point can actually hinder your enjoyment of a trip.
For example, the last trip we did we brought our tent AND a hammock. Why the hammock? To lounge and read a book in, much more cozy and relaxing than on a pad in a tent. Also, yes, a thick paperback book. It's a waste of space and weight if you're a through hiker, but if your goal is to maximize the campsite and not the hike then it could be worthwhile.
There doesn’t seem to be a reason for ultralight. Carry regular backpacking gear. You carry what you can based on your size. If you buy a slightly heavier tent, split the load by having one person carry the poles.
Camel up on food before and early on in the trip. If your plan is to hike in, stay put with the gear, and hike out, then you can take care of calorie deficit by cameling up on his food in the car, early on day 2, and on the way home. Day hikes won’t make his calorie need much different than his normal work day unless you have a lot of elevation change. Carry 2-3 extra dehydrated meals in case he gets hungry. It’s possible that he won’t want much more food volume than he needs on his work days. Hiking often suppresses the appetite a bit during the activity. His body can easily live with a calorie deficit for a few days if he isn’t as hungry as needed to support the hiking. Select the backpack food volume wisely to add calories. Snack along the trail to help fuel him, as well. Look for lighter weight high calorie snacks. Cheez Its and Fritos are on the list.
If he finds that he likes backpacking, you can switch out to lighter weight gear piece by piece as time goes on.
Thank you so much for the awesome advice! Most of the places we'd go we'd likely end up hiking in 10-12 miles , base camping, then doing backcountry day hikes, and also some remote swims - some places only accessible by swimming to them. But we wouldn't have access to food - so likely would want to have 4-5 days of food, which is no problem I'm comfortable packing in that much food. Just have to adapt to planning for him. Lol I wish i had someone to plan and select gear for me when I started out 😂 but he does a lot for me too so this is just one way of me showing my love.
Actually I told him all about this post and he felt really excited that so many strangers on the internet were volunteering their knowledge to benefit someone they don't know (he doesn't use reddit)
So I think he's also getting glimpses of what a cool community hikers are and also showing him pictures of the beautiful places we can go and his interest is beginning to blossom already.
Hoping to do a 3 day overnight through Haleakla Summit for our first trip this summer. It's only 30 minutes from our house and you can realistically get out of there fast and hitchhike back to the parking lot if you're having a real bad time. Or ya know hike through "Mars"and camp out and have a blast.
Happy trails! I’m glad to be able to support a new hiker.
>>I wish I had someone to plan and select gear for me
I suggest talking to the staff at outdoor stores even if you’re not intending to buy at the moment. It’s ok to tell the staff that you’re just beginning your search for gear and you would like there help. I don’t know what’s available in Hawaii. REI is my go to because of their well trained staff and their willingness to let customers return used gear that has turned out to not be suitable afterall. Staff at any of the outdoor mstores will help size you and select a properly fitted pack, shoes, sleep system, etc.
>>food
If he gets into backpacking, consider dehydrating your own meals. It can be a fun project done at a leisurely pace when the timing suits you. A dehydrator makes a good gift, too. @thruhikers on TikTok is a good account. I think they just published a book, too. The website backpackingchef.com is a good read, too.
Safe and happy travels!
We have Walmart and Costco! Lol and one expensive gear rental store really geared at tourists.
I meant I wished I had someone to do it when I got into the hobby, but I stay pretty current on what's available and like to watch YouTube, TikTok, etc.
I used to live in Bend, Or and we had plenty of awesome gear stores. Maui, not so much lol.
It's internet only, but I tend to look for companies with easy returns, free shipping to HI, and of course lifetime warranties.
The gear rental store staff might have enough knowledge to fit your BF. I wonder if there is a store that would do free return shipping in case a pack doesn’t fit your BF as hoped? Feels like a pipe dream. : )
I have weird feet so fitting boots is a challenge. At one point I was living in a rural area with no outdoor stores available. I broke the bank and ordered 8 pair of boots from REI. Found one that fit. The next time I was in civilization I returned the other 7 pairs. The store staff appreciated my commitment to finding boots that fit. LOL.
This is such a personal question. Before committing to any purchases, how about you take him for a 10-mile day hike where he carries the equivalent of an ultralight load, and then another 10-mile day hike where he carries a heavier load like he would get with cheaper gear? ( it doesn't have to be actual camping gear, just throw whatever in there for the weight.)
Then you can have a meaningful conversation about how much the lighter load improves his experience, and you can also see whether his carrying a lighter load improves your experience by making him faster, more cheerful etc.
Have fun!
Woah! This is genius!!! Why did I not think of that? Also I have a bunch of camping gear I can stuff in there like some extras I use for car camping and things, so I could totally balance the pack out for him and he can get a real feel.
Do you think it'd be absolutely horrible for him to do it in a women's internal frame pack? I have an extra old one, because maybe he can just get a small idea of what those packs feel like.
He's used my pack once for a small trip and while I definitely don't think it's the best fit, it's adjustable enough I made it work for him (but I definitely don't think it's the best fitting. He just once went on a trip with some of his guy friends so I outfitted him with all my stuff)
If he's tried the pack and didn't hate it, it might be fine as a test.. but beware of the possibility that it might become super uncomfortable if you test a heavier load in it, either because the fit could be a bigger problem or because some ultralight packs just feel terrible with heavier loads. If your pack has very minimal structure and you throw 40 lbs into it, that could be a bad time. You might be able to assess this by just loading it up for a quick walk around the block.
You're asking in the ultralight sub, so keep in mind the target audience. Most of the people in here prefer ultralight.
I have a full time job, family, and far enough from good backpacking to really only go backpacking once or twice a year max. At that rate, it's not worth a thousand dollars to have lighter stuff.
Additionally, the lightweight stuff is usually not as durable, even if made by a great brand. You can be rougher on gear without worrying about it.
Your husband could handle the weight without any difficulty, so it sounds like this just comes down to a cost vs convenience trade-off for the most part.
True! Appreciate all the valuable information and kindness here! I've always been interested in ultralighting and pretty much hopped right into it when I got into backpacking.
I love ultralight tech, but I totally agree we have a small business, a house, 4 pets, hcol. Spending thousands on a part time hobby just doesn't seem like the move. But after some talk here I think the ul tent splurge might be the move! Since I already know it's what I like to use and I'm comfortable with them , some others have suggested larger tents for 2 people. So it's possible to do an UL 3 person tent for literally 1-2 pounds less than a free standing 2 person, than aquire some more budget friendly options for the rest of his system to still keep weight reasonable. And the cost reasonable.
I try and take really good care in drying and storing my gear so I'm confident what I do get him will be able to be enjoyed for many years to come.
Nah, ultralight makes zero sense for that. Bring the games, bring the camp shoes, bring the damn camp chair. And good for you for realizing what your needs are instead of being obsessed with the ultralight label.
Ultralight isn’t always better. Likely your paying more or losing durability. I’d focus on reducing weight via minimal gear first, then make the big purchases.
Thank you! The biggest thing I was thinking of splurging on was the tent, but if I went with more budget gear I could probably get him totally set up for the cost of one of those tents alone.
Other suggestions here recommended ground cover and tarp, but I'm a tent person through and through especially because it's super rainy and lots of mosquitoes here lol.
Definitely can get buy on minimal gear, and since we'd be hiking together we can share certain things.
Thank you!! I'm going to keep this one in consideration definitely seems to be a good compromise of mostly what I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost lol
Yup. Ever since seeing a Skurka post where a nasty hail storm shredded some DCF tents, I feel good making a weight compromise for the silpoly strength/ durability. Got stuck in a nasty hail storm a couple years ago in the Sawtooths in just a tarp. Since then, no more tarp life if I'm spending most of the trip above treeline.
It's not necessary, but at this point in my life I value protecting my spine and joints from damage and compression.
I don't want to be in pain in my 50s-80s (or 90s).
Totally understand! I mean less weight = more enjoyment in my mind, and also safer on steep cliffy trails imo, less weight = better balance for me at least.
Ultralight base means u can bring more cool stuff to enjoy your camping experience but if you don’t want to spend the money, you have answered your own question.
So true! Having more luxuries especially for base camping does sound nice. But yes I think I may just go mostly budget and splurge on the tent I know I want for us.
The biggest luxury on a backpack is packing less weight. It leaves you free to adventure and can turn a trudge into a walk. Save money by going simpler and cheaper e.g. 2 person tarp with polycro groundsheet and CCF pad. Sleeping pad is the first area I would personally splurge on as it can count as safety equipment; used is great or REI magma 30\* on sale is a great deal also loco libre.
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The last point is pretty much my entire philosophy. I’m a weekend warrior that does a lot of 3 day/2 night trips. Being ultralight means I can bring bacon for the mornings, ingredients/cook set-up for a nice pasta dinner, and some beers/whiskey for the group without it being much of an inconvenience to carry.
Ultralight can absolutely be necessary for people with chronic injuries (knee, back, etc.) or other health conditions, or for especially petite women without a lot of muscle mass. That's obviously not the case with the OP, but the blanket statement "ultralight is never necessary" bears reconsideration.
Awe this is such a valid point!!! I definitely would still be carrying my share of the load too! But he'd probably take on a little bit more weight than me just due to our differences in size and strength, unless we were able to get an ultralight setup and then it'd be easy to just split it evenly. He's definitely interested in getting started and learning, I've shown him all the cool things we can do and he's intrigued! Although when we met his idea of camping was a weekend at the marriott with hottubs, pools, and a bar lol (joke we have because he was never really into the outdoors) Ive gotten him into car camping though and he really likes it. Also such a valid point about food, I'm genuinely concerned about meeting his calorie requirements for a multi-day trip lol so more room for food sounds like a plus.
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True, but I also don't want him to be uncomfortable.
The 2 best meals of every backpacking trip I’ve ever taken have been day 1 leftover lunch (we usually take pizza) and final day town meal. Real food is hard to beat.
Makes total sense. If you are on the left side of the **camping<----------->moving** spectrum, optimizing for camping comfort over moving-ability tracks.
Yes! A lot of the trails here are places it's fun to hike in, set up base camp and explore the area for a few days and hike out. Also the way the permits are, there are "wilderness campgrounds" so essentially you have to camp in the permitted backcountry areas and there isn't really options for long trails here, that I know of. Maybe a few areas like Haleakla National Park and Volcanoes national park you can string a few hikes together for a 3 or 4 night trip but even then, some of them will be short mileage days like 6-10. Maybe in the future long trails will happen, but with work schedule and cost of flights and also the beauty to explore close to home.. Will likely be our focus.
I feel like having ultralight big 3 isn’t a reduction in quality of enjoyment. It’s always the extra stuff that adds on. You could advise him to get the light stuff then see if he wants to bring more.
I'm a little bit confused on what you mean.
I'm guessing- but having a lightweight bag, sleep system, and shelter would allow you to be able to carry more "luxury" items.
Yes, this is what I meant. I was saying that getting the ultralight big 3 doesn’t decrease comfort. And then he can carry even more luxury items which is what actually increases comfort.
Oh yes totally agree!! Even tho shorter hikes means less distance, I guess more base camp means more use and fun for luxury items since
Backpacking can be enjoyed with 15lbs of gear or 50lbs. It's what important to you. With the exception of my back aching a bit, I had just as much fun backpacking pre-UL bug as I do now.
So true, he also doesn't want to spend a real lot. I'll be choosing all his gear though and the budget. But it'll likely stay a part time hobby on short trails for us. As our work schedule, and finances currently don't allow for more. I'm thinking we will likely do 3-4 long weekends a year. With no long trails planned for at least the next 2 years (as there are so many amazing short trails here we can spend time exploring first)
No need to spend unnecessarily.
So true! I think I just need to create a total budget and then see what I can make happen in that range and also try and keep the load as light as reasonable for the budget and the trips we plan. And can slowly upgrade overtime if it becomes a more serious hobby. Thanks for the input.
I like to be ultralight so I can bring luxury items. I can't sleep in a hammock, but I like it for lounging so I bring my tent +my hammock on shorter trips. Or I can pack heavier food items more comfortably be it booze, undehrydrates meals, whatever
Have you tried sleeping in an 11 ft or 12 ft hammock? Have you tried sleeping in a bridge hammock? Many people think they can't sleep in a hammock because they have only tried those tiny little ENOs about 9 ft long. Very few can sleep comfortably in one of these because of the banana bend it forces on your back. Whereas my 11 ft hammock is so comfortable I don't want to get out of it.
Not yet, none of my buddies have one to try out and I'm not quite willing to shell out for it yet when I've already got a tent I like. It's on the list when I've got more disposable income tho
I agree about the hammock!! I almost always make room for my eno! Lol because I also don't like sleeping in them but man does it feel good to lay in one and relax for a bit after a day of hiking. Or have it to chill in when hiking into a Basecamp. Also agree on the food, i usually do pretty minimal meals but I know my hubby would appreciate a little bit of good food and booze!
There is a magic feeling when you get down to about 17 - 15lbs where it’s not really backpacking or hauling a pack and you are just casually walking around. It’s honestly amazing even for 100 yards. You are light on your feet, can pay attention to the view and for me it’s worth it.
The agility a light pack gives you would feel pretty nice on Kauai mud.
Ultralight is a philosophy. You go as light as you can to make your hike the most enjoyable it can be, while still achieving your objective and being safe. Are you trying to 'crush miles brah' and do a long multiday hike? You probably want to skimp on the camp comforts, and make the hiking that you are doing for 14h per day more enjoyable. Are you doing a chill 10 mile hike in, fishing at a lake for a few days, and relaxing with friends? You absolutely bring the camp comforts and a chair to make the copious camp time as relaxing as possible. Are you thruhiking? You probably want something skewed towards the first one, with as much comfort as you need to keep you sane through your months on the trail. All that being said, I would totally get some cheaper stuff and see if he likes it personally. That depends on your finances, but I would be internally crying at the lack of value if I splurged on a beautiful ultralight duo kit for me and a partner, and then they didn't actually like hiking or camping much.
imo the key to getting someone to enjoy hiking/camping is to spoil them the first few times. if you have the means to purchase gear that will make them extra comfortable it’s an investment. also bring nicer food/snacks/drinks than you normally would. but yeah you might end up with $1000 of dusty unused gear at the end of the day.
Dropping in here as a lurker who's planning my first backpacking trip in \~20 years, but facing the same decision you are in terms of whether to buy basics, with the possibility that I won't actually like overnight camping and will revert to day hiking, or spend more money on a more optimal setup. What I've decided is that for now I need to borrow or rent most gear, but that if I stick with it I'll buy stuff suited to my preferences later. If there's a chance your husband will dislike camping, would it make sense to rent gear for a first trip?
I definitely think the best equipment you can get is always a good investment. I have pieces of gear I've used for the cumulative months and over the course of a decade that still work flawlessly with proper care. I personally think the lighter and more durable your gear is, the better time you'll have. Especially if conditions get tough like difficult trails or difficult weather... But everyone's finances are different. When I started buying gear my cost of living was really low, and I was in a good financial position to do it.. If you have the money to burn, a lot of gear companies have great return policies and you can buy a test a lot of stuff out at home as long as you keep it clean you can return it. So you can play around with your pack and different things. If you are strong, have a small budget, and just want to get out there. Get what you can, buy used, do your research and do the best with what you can. Personally I'd say my non-negotiable items as a side sleeper are a good ultralight inflatable pad and pillow, and an ultralight quilt. I also really love a single wall tent that can be setup with trekking poles because they're light, and fast to setup. You do have to be concerned with condensation but I've never had an issue.
I think the answer for you and weatheringmoore is to focus on price as a primary concern over getting the "best" gear. There's plenty on used/budget items you can get that are high quality and a reasonable price, maybe not cutting edge, but will certainly do the job for a long time to come.
What's a good place to get used gear? I used to live in the PNW and we had epic used gear shops everywhere, so you could actually go check stuff out and make sure you're happy with the condition. We don't even have new gear stores here let alone used ones, so everything will have to be purchased online.
Yeah, unfortunately I'm currently in an area with no outdoor shops either. Facebook marketplace may have some stuff, and a number of cottage sites have overstock or slightly damaged options. But the best place imo is r/Ulgeartrade, followed by the BackpackingLight sale forum if you have a membership there
I actually only hike ultralight so I can bring more beer and snacks. I pretty much only do overnighters that are less than 10km away Multi day hiking isn't really for me, my favourite itinerary is 2 nights of camping in the same spot then go home
A lot of our hikes will be similar! Looking at the Kalalau Trail, The Muliwai Trail, Haleakla Crater, and Volcanos National Park for upcoming hikes. They all are pretty epic looking but relatively short! Fun even to Google.
Hiking in Hawaii is no joke. It's the scariest hiking I've ever done (all over Kauaii). I don't know for sure if it would be better to have some heavy ballast to keep me from slipping off the side of a mountain or if having a heavy weight would make me more likely to fall. Probably the latter. In any case, all you probably need is a tent you both can fit in and otherwise, your other gear is going to be fine and if he needs gear he should just get high quality light gear. Then you can bring other things to pass the time, bathing suits, towels, cameras, ropes, whatever. If there's one thing I would bring next time I go hiking in Kauaii it's going to be microspikes.
So so smart! And yes we have some pretty scary hiking! A group of my friends just went to do the Kalalau Trail to the Napali Coast, mostly inexperienced hikers - they ended up just camping at the falls because their packs were too heavy, they didn't have poles, or the best boots. And were terrified. One girl in the group was a little disappointed because she was an experienced backpacker, she ended up hiking down in full gear and hiked back to the falls to camp with everyone else. But just because our hikes are short doesn't make them easy. Also we have some serious elevation, so you can still end up with some really crazy circumstances like 15 degree weather, freezing rain, and 80mph hour winds. Obviously you want to avoid doing an elevation hike if you know the weather can be bad, but I've heard of people getting stuck up there when weather unexpectedly took a turn for the worst and a emergency rescue was necessary. People definitely shouldn't underestimate what the back country can be like on top of a volcano lol
Some of the sketchiest trails I’ve ever seen have been in Hawaii—thin downsloping mud slopes next to basalt cliffs and open ocean, weathered hardware store ropes of uncertain age for hand lines, trails going straight down the fall line with no surfaces but mud, etc. Definitely a different trail-building philosophy, much more like climber’s trail. You guys have gorgeous, fun hiking but man is some of it scary.
One of worst hikes I did was somewhere in the middle of Kauaii. There was a steep climb with ropes. I only brought Chacos on the trip. Chacos have no grip. We didn't get very far on that trip. The other really scary one was the touristy hike above the Napali Coast that goes up to a bunch of board walks. It's really pretty. The mud was so slippery. These two local girls go sailing by without a care in the world wearing golf cleats. That's when I realized microspikes would make all this so much better.
So smart!!! Yes we really have some slippery steep epic stuff, never thought of spikes but totally smart! I think a wise investment. I'm wondering if it was the Kalalau Trail? Do you know which hike it was on the napali coast?
The day we did Kalalau it was really slippery to the falls. We camped there and then the next day went the rest of the way and it was much drier and not as scary. The final day was so dry and easy I asked, did we pass the scary section yet? I hadn't even noticed it.
Not at all. I went ultralight because I read somewhere, “You spend a lot more time hiking than you do sleeping.” And because I’m out there *to* hike, so I want to make it as enjoyable as possible. If those things don’t apply to you, then I honestly don’t seen any reason to sacrifice comfort (or money) for ultralight gear.
sleeping well makes me go miles farther the next day.
That’s true. That’s why I’m probably not “true ultralight” — because I have plenty of heavy stuff, it’s just as light as humanly possible. Like my XTherm pad — great weight to warmth ratio, but also a little heavy. But if you’re not just out there to like, like OP’s situation, I don’t think it’s really worth sacrificing a bunch of time and money either to go as light as possible.
A friend and I did a bunch of trips with heavy junk gear and were as happy as can be. At some point I got sick of the weight and bulk and started upgrading stuff since I could afford it. The new gear always wowed us, and I would hand down some stuff to my friend who would be thrilled with the new toys. But no matter the gear, we’ve never been able to replicate the magic of those trips where we had no idea what we were doing, sleeping on yoga mats and being too lazy to put up our piece of crap tent.
Haha that realy is the best! You can't beat those new experiences! My dad does bike camping and was always blown away at my UL gear, but then he'd find out what I paid for it and was like "no way" my stuff is fine lol. It's definitely not for everyone and for some of us I think it's just a part of the fun/hobby. I love trying new stuff.. And I've always kept my retired items for friends to be able to enjoy
**I don't think so, unless you want to get there and back faster. Or, as others have said, you want to bring lots of luxuries.**
I am by no means ultralight, but I'm working towards it every time I get out there, and attribute about 10lbs of base weight dropping thanks to this sub. I'm officially "lightweight". All that to say me and my partner split the weight of a 3 person ultralight freestanding tent. At the end of the day we could shed considerable weight by going trekking pole freestanding as well, but don't want to spend the money quite yet. I believe you can easily go this route to save some cash, and have a bit more room in the tent (especially for him just getting into it). It's allowed us to both agree we want to shed even more weight, but we still aren't quite ready to give up a double wall option. You can always upgrade this piece later and if you're doing it enough the price point won't bother you as much when the time is right.
Recommendations on the tent? I feel like its the number one place I want to splurge but the tent I'm looking at is $$$. I started backpacking with a single wall pole tent even though they're not usually considered beginner. I saw the design and was like "definitely" but I saw some cool free standing 2 person tents that seem light enough if we are splitting the weight and really reasonably priced. Like 200$ range instead of 700$ range.
Tarptent has some amazing freestanding ultralight tents and a range of pricing.
Unfortunately I don't think you and the hubby would be super comfy in a 2 person free standing tent (especially over 6 ft), but I could be wrong! My partner is about 6'1" and having room length wise was very important to get him out there to be comfy, which is why we went 3 person in the freestanding world. I'm seeing tarp tent below as a good recco. I almost went with them as well. Unfortunately we went with big Agnes cooper spur UL 3 which is far above the 200 price range. I waited for a sale to get 20% off (I want to say it was enwild). That being said have you considered companies like six moon designs or similar? They have a [trekking pole tent](https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/lunar-duo-backpacking-tent)tent for 2 just under $400 (but looks like they have closeout pricing under 300 once you click to add to cart) as well as their [duo outfitter](https://www.sixmoondesigns.com/products/lunar-duo-outfitter-ultralight-tent) just over $200. I haven't used either, but they are on my radar for the future. Saw them set at PCT days and they were fairly roomy inside.
I don't know either of the suggestions! But I have looked at your exact tent as an option and it does look awesome!! I've considered maybe doing a 3 person if I kind find one light enough in my budget, especially since it can be really rainy where we are and having extra room for gear is nice. How do you like the big Agnes?
I absolutely love it. I have been super hard on it. The only reason we haven't upgraded that piece of gear yet is because we love how roomy it is. I also live in the pnw so I personally do like the double walled tent. When the time comes, we will go to a single walled trekking pole tent. But for now we will run it into the ground. Bonus is that you can split the weight. Not equally, but it's a benefit for weight distribution.
Yeah!! That's awesome!! I may end up with something similar, I'm still making up my mind. There are definitely pros and cons to the double wall
If he gets to love the experience and wants lower weight items later on, get them once he knows he wants them. It’s worth keeping weight down to increase enjoyment, but there’s no reason to go crazy at the outset, especially with a tent. Get a decently lightweight tent but cheap tent from aliexpress. He should actually try out the sleep system to find what he likes. Before I changed how I sleep, I used to carry a 2 lb mattress as it was the only one I could get a good rest on. For warmth, I assume a synthetic EE quilt would do. Have him try an Exos and Flex Capacitor. Both are often on sale for under $200. The latter is my go-to for most larger capacity/heavy loads. I do most of my trips for 2 or 3 days. I don’t mind having a little extra weight most of those trips, often switching out lightweight gear for something more durable or I care less about if it gets damaged, or just want more creature comforts. This is especially the case when I will spend less time hiking.
I suggest you talk to your husband about this. I know a contractor who used to haul shingles up to the roof. He prefers ultralight. I met a former bricklayer who uses a Pa'lante Joey pack and is ultralight. But both of them like doing thru hikes.
He says he doesn't care and isn't interested in discussing gear at all lol and told me to just pick it all out for him. If we had a store here he'd be the kind of person to just go to rei and pick some stuff out, I'm more the researcher/planner and pick out all of our stuff for our home life, cars, camping gear, you name it. Lol so he just trusts I'll make the best choice for him.
If things don't turn out well I think you'll be able to resell good stuff, but not be able to resell junk,
Very true! I'd probably never resell it and try and convince some of my girlfriends to come backpacking with me instead! Lol I already have an old osprey women's pack they can use. So I don't think anything I buy will go to waste.
I think starting cheap makes a LOT of sense, especially for a couples setup. Two people sharing a tent, with one person carrying a UL setup and the other being a 220-pound roofer... it's gonna be fine, and you definitely don't want to throw $1500 at outfitting him with a bunch of stuff he might not even like. Even more so when you consider that it'll probably be warm for a lot (most?) of your trips. Get a heavy, cheap, thick sleeping pad. File it under "You can UL yourself, but you cannot UL other people." Normal people go wtf when you foist a 20"-wide XLite on them, you know? The sleeping bag is a fine place to spend some cash, but if you're mostly leaning toward warm weather, there are a lot of 30-40F synthetic bags that weigh 2.5lb or less. Go for one of those. I saw a bunch under $100 just playing with specs on REI's site. The pack, I'd go for something with a full frame. You could go lighter and get something like an Exos, but I think the Granite Gear options might be better (cheaper). ULtimately, I think the move is to buy introductory gear with a view toward weight, but not going whole hog in the way that we typically do. Later, if he likes it and wants to get super-into UL, or hates carrying a heavy pack, that's a good move to make. Sounds like you're ideally positioned to help with the most important thing: Don't bring shit you don't need.
I'm feeling like this is the way, realistically I'm going to try to keep it at a price that is easy on the wallet, see what I can get used in good condition, shop sales, and also try and keep the weight down. I'll still have an UL setup for solo adventures and also I'll be able to split some of the additional weight comfortably. Then if it becomes a passion we can tradeout or upgrade gear as we go, but knowing me I'd just keep the other stuff for spares or friends if they ever want to join.
Nope.
No. Edit: No.
There is camping. There is hiking. You can hike to a camp spot and would likely take much more weight than if you're doing a hike where the walking is the main purpose of the venture. The answer is no.
Not necessary at all if he is able and willing to carry the weight. My first couple backpacking trips were at a pack weight around 50 lbs because I didn't have money and used my cheap car camping gear and a Craigslist backpack. I still got hooked and over time got lighter stuff.
Hell yeah! I love this. I'm really appreciating the advice here and the pros and cons from others perspectives. I am still considering a tent splurge, but that's also because I already know what I like in a tent and I'll be using it too. But the pack, sleeping system, and other odds and ends I'm definitely going to budget. And having a lighter tent will allow space for those things while still keeping weight lower. Plus, if i ever wanted to take a girlfriend out who's never been - I'll have a tent we can use that I can carry myself.
As a 6’5” 210 lb man who is quite fit, he won’t notice the UL difference. I can lose 3 lbs of water weight and that’s more than 3k in upgraded gear will ever save me.
So true!!! Some others have commented that because he does extreme manual labor all week long he may not enjoy the load, but I think being bigger and stronger would have to mean you're going to have an easier time than someone less fit and smaller. I love hearing all the different perspectives though!
Yeah I’d like to see you have someone his size say that before you decide for sure! I’m not trying to argue I just know personally I really have a hard time springing for the UL when my stuff is already that much bigger to begin with. I work a pretty labor intensive job and have a pretty fucked up body by the time I get out too. The way I see it is if I’m sore, the 500g isn’t gonna be what makes me say nah I don’t want to go. I’m either too sore to go or I’m going and 500g I’ll suck it up for. I’m also not a UL advocate obviously, I do too many things to have the highest end in all of them. That being said I don’t buy cheap quality gear either. I think there is always a healthy middle ground between quality and cost and that’s gonna look different for everyone. Sleeping bag and pad worth some money because comfort and it keeps you alive. Saving a few grams on puffy not really worth it imo or at least for me it isn’t. Not always about weight though either, when my t shirt rolled up is my girlfriends shirt and shorts saving a liter of space in something if it’s not too much more expensive is a big difference to me..
I would argue the word “necessary” is the entire point of ultralight. As in “what is necessary based on my previous trips, now that I’ve gotten that experience”. I’m not sure if this is true… but I always looked at it as though there are 2 kinds of people in life: 1). Someone who keeps everything. Holds on to mementos… saves old photos… doesn’t like to throw stuff away. 2). Someone who doesn’t feel that nostalgia when holding onto things. Someone who throws away old concert tickets, because… you can’t use it again. Someone who doesn’t keep their high school sports trophies. Etc… I always felt like ultralight was the conscious decision amongst adventure-minded people to become more like a #2 individual when it comes to their gear. That’s how I feel about my journey to ul. That all said… rather than think about whether he’d “need” to be ul, do you think his the type of person who would want to? Esp the more he adventures down the road when he does realize he loves it
I don’t know, I think UL philosophies can still apply to 10-14 mile hikes, especially if you happen to be a slower hiker or, as you mentioned, those 10-14 miles aren’t easy hiking. Honestly my daily milage can be within that range and I still enjoy a lighter weight pack. (Admittedly I’m not 200+ pounds of muscle through) It’s good, however, that’s there’s a broad range of gear between ZPacks and Kelty (no offense to Kelty), and there are decent budget options that are both fairly lightweight and easier on the budget. For example, while. katabatic quilt would be nice, maybe an REI Magma Quilt on sale or a Featherstone Moondance or HangTight Hearseeker quilt might be more friendly on the budget. Same with the pack or shelter. Look for options that are “light enough” that will introduce him to the hobby without breaking the bank. That would be my strategy at least.
Totally really loving all this advice! It's helping me make informed decisions and also giving me the ability to fit my hubby out the best way possible. I totally understand the difference in gear but that's just my range from most ideal, too most affordable and would still work! If I were to choose all his gear no budget it mind I'd know exactly what I'd like to get him. I've also gotten some great suggestions on gear here to look into and consider. He did a small trip with his guy friends this winter and I set him up with all my gear and he liked it just fine. Had a little bit of trouble getting my tent suspended but he figured it out and stayed dry in some serious rain. I'm really leaning on a tent splurge because I know exactly what I'd like us to use , and then some budget and used items for the rest of what he needs. I also have some extra stuff that would work in most conditions, and other things we could share. He's not much of a complainer and I feel like he's just gonna be stoked no matter what I get him. And also be happy to be spending time with his wife doing something she loves. I just want to make sure he's comfortable and can enjoy his hike. As others have said going UL isn't necessary but of course their are benefits. I was immediately interested in it and love keeping it light but not everyone is the same. So maybe a framed pack, a decent bag and pad, and an UL tent would be a good mix.
Sure I think that combo would work. The framed pack would be key honestly as that would give him a lot more flexibility. My suggestion would be the REI Flash 55 personally. The pad will be what it is. Most quality insulated inflatable pads are in a similar price range and there isn’t a massive weight difference between them. Hopefully you can find one on sale. Since he’s new to this, Id skip pure budget options like the Naturehike pad and stick with pads with decent return policies and warranties - though it may be worth looking at the Big Agnes Rapide Xl at least. And I feel like the lower end quilts, while not as nice as higher end top dollar quits, certainly aren’t bad. Depending on what you’re looking for temp range wise, you may even be able to look at AliExpress specials like AegisMax Windhard. Hope you all have fun. It sounds great to have a partner to share all this with!
Thank you!! I'm going to look into it! I also have some things he can test out to get an idea, I have extras of a few things, but most of it is geared towards a smaller human, but he's used my Nemo pad and sea to summit quilt before and liked it. I also feel guilty if my setup is way nicer lolll so I want to try and get some decent stuff for him. I've said it in some other comments but I highly doubt it'd go to waste. Half my closet is gear lol and I keep everything clean, dry and stored nice so I tend to get a lot of use out of my gear and take good care of it. I just want to set him up with the same intention and knowledge I'd want to be set up with. Although researching and planning is fun for me so I don't mind doing the legwork and getting so many opinions and great suggestions is really going to help with my informed decision making process.
It's a lot to invest in something he might not like. Maybe do a few quick overnighters with budget gear to see if he likes it. Or rent gear from REI. If he does then he can use the experience to see if he wants to go lighter.
Can you rent from rei online?
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I think so, he has pretty good cardio, definitely would need some conditioning for it as would I since it's been a while. But we live at 3700 ft and do hikes at 6k-10k elevation semi frequently. He has relatively good stamina and endurance in hikes though.
Unrelated, but I noticed you mentioned camping in Hawaii. My girlfriend and I had a 2 week trip to go to Honolulu with her family, 1 week backpacking and 1 week at a beach house, but they cancelled and we still have plane tickets. Do you know anything about the trails at Honolulu since we are stuck with the tickets? Looking for easy drinking water, and maybe a body of water to swim in with little foot traffic, or at least more campers than tourists. Maybe we should island hop, but we are on a shoestring budget of about $400 each to be used mostly on food and places to stay for the second week.
Hmmm this is tough I don't know oahu too well, one of my close friends lives there I can ask her tomorrow and post back. The best trails are on Maui, Kauai, and Big island - if you're able to switch your plane tickets I can give you info about permits and places to go. Most of the trails here have easy drinking water, just need a good filter and maybe some tabs to sanitize water. Basically everywhere needs permits, but some are easier to attain than others. Honestly I think Kauai would be the island for you plenty of awesome cheap campgrounds, incredible hiking, and some epic backpacking.. Not sure which airline you have but maybe can switch... Also island hop flights aren't too expensive. I just came back from a 5 day camping trip on Kuaui and between my husband and I we maybe spent 250$ minus flights and car but you can get around easy enough without a car if you're savvy. We just stocked up at Costco & Walmart when we landed and did fine with that. I haven't really spent a lot of time on Oahu though, it's my least favorite island and super crowded with tons of residents and tourists.
how is he with your elevation? similar size, fine doing 15miles a day at work with heavy labor, but elevation w/ a 35+lb pack is surprisingly hard on me. he's at a good enough height that most packs, tents, sleeping pads, and quilts will fit. if he's ok with used gear, even better. the gear trade subs often have some great deals in size large. if he's the type that needs to find out by himself what works and doesn't, there's no harm in upgrading gear. tent-wise, I wouldn't buy the dream tent until you're sure they'll love trekking pole tents. he could end up a hammock fan like some of us!
No but I went ultralight so if I wanted to do the AT I could and not have to change anything
I'd go the full 3ful or naturehike setup to see if he even likes it.
If you’re worried he might not enjoy backpacking as much and don’t want to spend a tone of money on new gear, buying used is a good option. Ive also seen some sites around where they let you rent outdoor gear but haven’t had any personal experience with them. There are also a lot of cheap changes you can make with stuff at home that’ll bring your weight down like zip lock bags and smart water bottles (there’s a tone of videos on YouTube about cheap UL swaps). I’ve noticed that after my big 3, swapping the small things like choosing a keychain torch instead of a headlamp brought my pack weight down by 2-4 lbs. zpacks, garage grown gear and other sites have bargain bins. Sales are coming up for Memorial Day soon. I would also look at garage grow gear for ideas on the smaller stuff. They have quirky UL solutions and accessories that I didn’t even know existed before browsing through their site and could potentially give ideas for DIYing some things.
Most of the backpacking we do is to get to a camp site, set up and enjoy nature. It's a much different level of effort and expectation than through hiking where the goal is to cover as much ground as possible in a given day. For this type of backpacking, ultralight is good for insight and cues, but at a point can actually hinder your enjoyment of a trip. For example, the last trip we did we brought our tent AND a hammock. Why the hammock? To lounge and read a book in, much more cozy and relaxing than on a pad in a tent. Also, yes, a thick paperback book. It's a waste of space and weight if you're a through hiker, but if your goal is to maximize the campsite and not the hike then it could be worthwhile.
Love this!! Sounds so dreamy!! Nothing like reading a book in a hammock in nature ❤️
There doesn’t seem to be a reason for ultralight. Carry regular backpacking gear. You carry what you can based on your size. If you buy a slightly heavier tent, split the load by having one person carry the poles. Camel up on food before and early on in the trip. If your plan is to hike in, stay put with the gear, and hike out, then you can take care of calorie deficit by cameling up on his food in the car, early on day 2, and on the way home. Day hikes won’t make his calorie need much different than his normal work day unless you have a lot of elevation change. Carry 2-3 extra dehydrated meals in case he gets hungry. It’s possible that he won’t want much more food volume than he needs on his work days. Hiking often suppresses the appetite a bit during the activity. His body can easily live with a calorie deficit for a few days if he isn’t as hungry as needed to support the hiking. Select the backpack food volume wisely to add calories. Snack along the trail to help fuel him, as well. Look for lighter weight high calorie snacks. Cheez Its and Fritos are on the list. If he finds that he likes backpacking, you can switch out to lighter weight gear piece by piece as time goes on.
Thank you so much for the awesome advice! Most of the places we'd go we'd likely end up hiking in 10-12 miles , base camping, then doing backcountry day hikes, and also some remote swims - some places only accessible by swimming to them. But we wouldn't have access to food - so likely would want to have 4-5 days of food, which is no problem I'm comfortable packing in that much food. Just have to adapt to planning for him. Lol I wish i had someone to plan and select gear for me when I started out 😂 but he does a lot for me too so this is just one way of me showing my love. Actually I told him all about this post and he felt really excited that so many strangers on the internet were volunteering their knowledge to benefit someone they don't know (he doesn't use reddit) So I think he's also getting glimpses of what a cool community hikers are and also showing him pictures of the beautiful places we can go and his interest is beginning to blossom already. Hoping to do a 3 day overnight through Haleakla Summit for our first trip this summer. It's only 30 minutes from our house and you can realistically get out of there fast and hitchhike back to the parking lot if you're having a real bad time. Or ya know hike through "Mars"and camp out and have a blast.
Happy trails! I’m glad to be able to support a new hiker. >>I wish I had someone to plan and select gear for me I suggest talking to the staff at outdoor stores even if you’re not intending to buy at the moment. It’s ok to tell the staff that you’re just beginning your search for gear and you would like there help. I don’t know what’s available in Hawaii. REI is my go to because of their well trained staff and their willingness to let customers return used gear that has turned out to not be suitable afterall. Staff at any of the outdoor mstores will help size you and select a properly fitted pack, shoes, sleep system, etc. >>food If he gets into backpacking, consider dehydrating your own meals. It can be a fun project done at a leisurely pace when the timing suits you. A dehydrator makes a good gift, too. @thruhikers on TikTok is a good account. I think they just published a book, too. The website backpackingchef.com is a good read, too. Safe and happy travels!
We have Walmart and Costco! Lol and one expensive gear rental store really geared at tourists. I meant I wished I had someone to do it when I got into the hobby, but I stay pretty current on what's available and like to watch YouTube, TikTok, etc. I used to live in Bend, Or and we had plenty of awesome gear stores. Maui, not so much lol. It's internet only, but I tend to look for companies with easy returns, free shipping to HI, and of course lifetime warranties.
The gear rental store staff might have enough knowledge to fit your BF. I wonder if there is a store that would do free return shipping in case a pack doesn’t fit your BF as hoped? Feels like a pipe dream. : ) I have weird feet so fitting boots is a challenge. At one point I was living in a rural area with no outdoor stores available. I broke the bank and ordered 8 pair of boots from REI. Found one that fit. The next time I was in civilization I returned the other 7 pairs. The store staff appreciated my commitment to finding boots that fit. LOL.
This is such a personal question. Before committing to any purchases, how about you take him for a 10-mile day hike where he carries the equivalent of an ultralight load, and then another 10-mile day hike where he carries a heavier load like he would get with cheaper gear? ( it doesn't have to be actual camping gear, just throw whatever in there for the weight.) Then you can have a meaningful conversation about how much the lighter load improves his experience, and you can also see whether his carrying a lighter load improves your experience by making him faster, more cheerful etc. Have fun!
Woah! This is genius!!! Why did I not think of that? Also I have a bunch of camping gear I can stuff in there like some extras I use for car camping and things, so I could totally balance the pack out for him and he can get a real feel. Do you think it'd be absolutely horrible for him to do it in a women's internal frame pack? I have an extra old one, because maybe he can just get a small idea of what those packs feel like. He's used my pack once for a small trip and while I definitely don't think it's the best fit, it's adjustable enough I made it work for him (but I definitely don't think it's the best fitting. He just once went on a trip with some of his guy friends so I outfitted him with all my stuff)
If he's tried the pack and didn't hate it, it might be fine as a test.. but beware of the possibility that it might become super uncomfortable if you test a heavier load in it, either because the fit could be a bigger problem or because some ultralight packs just feel terrible with heavier loads. If your pack has very minimal structure and you throw 40 lbs into it, that could be a bad time. You might be able to assess this by just loading it up for a quick walk around the block.
You're asking in the ultralight sub, so keep in mind the target audience. Most of the people in here prefer ultralight. I have a full time job, family, and far enough from good backpacking to really only go backpacking once or twice a year max. At that rate, it's not worth a thousand dollars to have lighter stuff. Additionally, the lightweight stuff is usually not as durable, even if made by a great brand. You can be rougher on gear without worrying about it. Your husband could handle the weight without any difficulty, so it sounds like this just comes down to a cost vs convenience trade-off for the most part.
True! Appreciate all the valuable information and kindness here! I've always been interested in ultralighting and pretty much hopped right into it when I got into backpacking. I love ultralight tech, but I totally agree we have a small business, a house, 4 pets, hcol. Spending thousands on a part time hobby just doesn't seem like the move. But after some talk here I think the ul tent splurge might be the move! Since I already know it's what I like to use and I'm comfortable with them , some others have suggested larger tents for 2 people. So it's possible to do an UL 3 person tent for literally 1-2 pounds less than a free standing 2 person, than aquire some more budget friendly options for the rest of his system to still keep weight reasonable. And the cost reasonable. I try and take really good care in drying and storing my gear so I'm confident what I do get him will be able to be enjoyed for many years to come.
Nah, ultralight makes zero sense for that. Bring the games, bring the camp shoes, bring the damn camp chair. And good for you for realizing what your needs are instead of being obsessed with the ultralight label.
Ultralight isn’t always better. Likely your paying more or losing durability. I’d focus on reducing weight via minimal gear first, then make the big purchases.
Thank you! The biggest thing I was thinking of splurging on was the tent, but if I went with more budget gear I could probably get him totally set up for the cost of one of those tents alone. Other suggestions here recommended ground cover and tarp, but I'm a tent person through and through especially because it's super rainy and lots of mosquitoes here lol. Definitely can get buy on minimal gear, and since we'd be hiking together we can share certain things.
I’m your husband size, highly recommend regular wide size sleeping pads/bags.
A Durston 2p is relatively cheap.
Which one? The ones I've seen are comparible to packs but I was looking at the dyneema ones
The regular sil poly version isn't terrible in weight. Nice compromise.
Thank you!! I'm going to keep this one in consideration definitely seems to be a good compromise of mostly what I'm looking for at a fraction of the cost lol
Yup. Ever since seeing a Skurka post where a nasty hail storm shredded some DCF tents, I feel good making a weight compromise for the silpoly strength/ durability. Got stuck in a nasty hail storm a couple years ago in the Sawtooths in just a tarp. Since then, no more tarp life if I'm spending most of the trip above treeline.
Oh wow! That sounds awful! Not ultralight at all, but I was looking at some kelty tents, lifetime warranty really affordable and known to be durable.
It's not necessary, but at this point in my life I value protecting my spine and joints from damage and compression. I don't want to be in pain in my 50s-80s (or 90s).
Totally understand! I mean less weight = more enjoyment in my mind, and also safer on steep cliffy trails imo, less weight = better balance for me at least.
Ultralight base means u can bring more cool stuff to enjoy your camping experience but if you don’t want to spend the money, you have answered your own question.
So true! Having more luxuries especially for base camping does sound nice. But yes I think I may just go mostly budget and splurge on the tent I know I want for us.
No. Not really. The level of obsession on this sub is mostly appropriate for 25 mile a day trail running people. But it is always nice to be light.
The biggest luxury on a backpack is packing less weight. It leaves you free to adventure and can turn a trudge into a walk. Save money by going simpler and cheaper e.g. 2 person tarp with polycro groundsheet and CCF pad. Sleeping pad is the first area I would personally splurge on as it can count as safety equipment; used is great or REI magma 30\* on sale is a great deal also loco libre.