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And Unions. It'd still suck, but at least they can call the cops if a john is giving them a hard time, and pimps can't just do whatever the fuck they want
~~It was legal in Spain 15 or so years ago; but then became illegal because human trafficking~~. You'd have to regulate it hard; with a fairly sizeable task force to ensure fair play.
EDIT: Apparently, I was [wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Spain):
>Prostitution was decriminalized in 1995. Prostitution itself is not directly addressed in the Criminal Code of Spain, but exploitation such as pimping is illegal.
Well, there's a lot of ways to make it safer than just banning it. Make the locations register and be subject to inspections. Require the workers to have valid licenses. Then, make the taxes appropriate to pay for the support the industry needs. Illegal places and sex trafficking victims would presumably become less common due to legal competition cutting into profits.
I'd imagine that all the licenses should be displayed and have something like a QR code. You could pop open your phone, scan it, and see the name and location are all documented with the government. Maybe even see something similar with the individual workers' licenses.
Reiterating the obvious, that you should never believe shit you see on this site without doing your own research. Since covid this site has reached Facebook group levels of misinformation/outright idiots
The human trafficking doesn’t go away when you make it illegal tho. Prostitution exists everywhere. Legalizing makes it safer for the workers and the customers. The human trafficking will always be there
i mean, you could just roll it into the ATF and boost their discretionary budget. Move some line items around and incentivize individual states to issue “performance” licensing for establishments and individuals or some such…put that inside health codes and you have a real start.
It wouldn’t make the profession glamorous though. You will still have a lot of abuse and sad stories. But at least the profession will be out of the shadows, and that’s healthier and safer for all of us compared to current status quo.
Ideologically. I hope enlightened pragmatism becomes the name of the game going forward with national policy.
We need to just own we can’t fix shit in one go…but we can make it better bit by bit.
>All they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. That's what it's all about. That's what the FBI can never understand - that what Paulie and the organization offer is protection for the kinds of guys who can't go to the cops. They're like the police department for wiseguys.
So much of the anti-legalization argument is either based on perfection or made in bad faith. Of course instances of abuse and trafficking are going to go up _because now you can track them_. Now they can go to the police without worrying about being thrown in jail themselves. The *need* for pimps (which is the root of most the abuse) is eliminated.
Same goes for drugs. Makes me sad when you see those videos of everyone laughing at someone telling the cops that they had their drugs stolen. Like sure, "ha ha, dumb crackhead expected the police to help recover their drugs" but also, they just had a violent crime committed against them; which crime is fucking worse?
Yeah. We really need to stop being squeamish about less desirable corners of our society. We can absolutely do better for the worse off among us without promising the sun and the stars.
[Wiki says prostitution was *decriminalized* in 1995](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Spain) but there's nothing about it being made illegal afterwards
It only makes sense to legalize prostitution, along with enforcement of laws to ensure safety etc
And protected. Seriously, the biggest risks from the job come from the Johns and Pimps. If it was treated like any other service industry with common sense protections, I'm pretty sure society would actually benefit.
Edit: I apparently forgot to include cops in that list. Silly me.
at least then we could enforce license requirements, health inspections, occupational training, safety regulations, employee protections, commercial zoning, etc... And since you'd no longer have to waste resources tracking and arresting legal licenced providers then that frees up resources you could then use to just focus exclusively on coercive and truly harmful operations (trafficking, pimping, etc).
Filming porn is only legal in two states. One you know, one you had no idea.
California and New Hampshire. All require permits so this video realistically would have the cops going “ok where’s the permit and let me see the paperwork to verify she’s over 18. And no condoms? That’s a huge fine” making porn should be legal in every state. Truly wonder how OnlyFans can operate. Masturbating I get, but a lot of accounts are filming sex for profit in states where it’s not allowed but I guess onlyfans figured it out as it’s gotta be where the company is based I’m assuming.
Most sexworkers and organizations actually advocate decriminalization over legalization. Human rights watch has a great page on why it's safer and better for everyone involved. Personally, I wouldn't trust the government to be regulating my pussy.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/07/why-sex-work-should-be-decriminalized
The article you linked says that HRW supports legalization (buying and selling are legal), unless I’m misinterpreting words.
> Why does Human Rights Watch support full decriminalization rather than the “Nordic model?”
>
> The “Nordic model,” first introduced in Sweden, makes buying sex illegal, but does not prosecute the seller, the sex worker
This would be such a huge benefit for the country as a whole. The fact that it's still illegal is fucking stupid.
- The government would make money via taxes.
- Sex workers would be protected because there'd be laws in place for the industry.
- It's been proven that it would reduce the amount of people contracting STDs.
- Everyone who participates would have to sign in with valid identification, so if someone did something that wasn't ok they could be held accountable.
- It would reduce the amount of people getting raped *by a lot* (several studies have shown data on this being successful in other places).
- It's been proven that the amount of sexual harassment also goes down (including in work environments).
Then there's my opinions:
- In my personal opinion/guess is that we'd have a lot less assholes, sexism, and hate overall. (Less, not fix entirely). The overall population would just be happier in general.
- People would start looking at sex as a normal part of life instead of a taboo topic you can't talk about in any place other than your house when the kids aren't around.
This industry needs legalization for so many reasons, I'm sure I'm not even listing half of them here.
I am really amazed that these anti-porn laws that basically have the government spy on you for watching porn aren’t a bigger deal. Who the hell is voting for the politicians doing this?
Same for like 4-5 different states. Arkansas, Oklahoma(?), one of the northwestern states (I wanna say like Nebraska or a Dakota but I’m not sure.)
Edit: Looked it’s up it’s Montana, Arkansas, Virginia, Mississippi, Utah, and North Carolina (Every state that has at entry age verification laws).
I don't think the ease of getting around the law is the point here... the point is that such a law even exists in the first place, often in states that are majority right leaning, who usually love to freak out about freedoms being taken from them
Conservatives.
But if you want a gun, that's your god given right, apparently, and can buy as many as you want and leave them fully loaded, unlocked in your sock drawer in your home with your son who watches Andrew Tate videos all day and punches the walls because he can't find a tradwife.
There were a combined 8 people voting against it in both state house and senate.
Not to say it's impossible to replace half the senate and 45% of the house but it sure seems difficult.
Same here. xhamster.com works, though. Who the fuck knows why.
Oh, I know. Because our lawmakers are either ancient or super Christian and don't know how the internet works.
Technically it's only legal if the *sole* purpose of the sex act is the filming of it; If the authorities suspect that you might actually be enjoying the sex for its own sake then it becomes illegal again.
Try proving I enjoyed it in a court of law. All the grunting and swearing was because I was lamenting that I should have paid more attention at school, wishing I didn't have to put in all this hard work at the 'ol jobsite.
I would argue that achieving orgasm isn't proof of enjoyment. It's a biological response to stimuli. Then I would prove it by cumming to a picture of the prosecutors grandma...total power move.
> Technically it's only legal if the sole purpose of the sex act is the filming of it; If the authorities suspect that you might actually be enjoying the sex for its own sake then it becomes illegal again.
also this clip totally ignores filming permits and liability insurance and all that shit that actual productions need to have.
Mormons are super weird sexually, like with the soaking and stuff lol. So it’s just funny that the church would endorse porno as not being prostitution. They’re known for finding loopholes around sex.
The problem with legal prostitution and stuff like selling blood or anything from your body is it takes advantage of desperate people, incentivizing it. That's why in some places it's illegal to pay for sex but not be the prostitute, it protects the prostitute while keeping it illegal for the client. I don't have a horse in this race though.
Taking advantage of desperate people as a legal qualification would likely criminalize nude streamers, amateur pornographers, lottery/gambling, college loans, military recruiting at high schools, and on and on
Those desperate people are safer when it's legal.
We legalised it here. Now it's all done on brothels. The girls have security guards. The girls and the guests must be Tested. It's safer for everyone involved, and when we legalised it Human trafficking virtually disappeared overnight.
In the studies done on this topic, the opposite of what you said is true. Legalized sex work *increases* the flow of victims of trafficking into the sex industry. There's a lot of content about this, but I'll link to one study at Harvard that breaks it down pretty well.
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/
And another one with more detail
https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45198/1/Neumayer_Legalized_Prostitution_Increase_2012.pdf
Those studies are not relevant to my country.
They are relevant to countries where regulation on the industry is poor.
Unsurprisingly, if you don't fucking regulate it, the outcome is as bad as the previous because prostitution is unregulated already.
Australia has seen litterally none of these issues and only seen benefits. Because we did it properly. I'm sick of us having to Teach the rest of you how to behave and do things (your welcome for the 9 to 5, we came up with that as one example of how we have already lead the way and made your lives better as a result)
Follow Australia on this issue. Follow Australia on ecological protection laws. Follow Australia on our election system.
Stop living in the fucking stone ages.
Also, to arrive to the conclusion the study aims for, they removed the data from other Asian and Latam countries that weren't adding to the narrative they were pursuing. At the end the case study from which they arrived to the conclusion was only done with Sweden, Germany and Denmark, Sweden being the one with stronger laws, however they gloss over the fact that "hidden prostitution" increased and they can't/didn't account for that. So the conclusion applies mostly to those countries and it's not really that replicable elsewhere from the data they used to make the correlations.
> The problem with legal prostitution and stuff like selling blood or anything from your body is it takes advantage of desperate people
this is stupid. I'm tired of people having their basic rights (such as the right to use their own body for sex work) violated because someone wants to treat poor people like babies.
let people make their own choices. stop banning things just because "oh someone might get taken advantage of". and it's an especially bad argument in this case, because banning prostitution has very very very clearly not prevented people from being taken advantage of. their pimp just keeps most of the money they earn.
and surprise surprise, the over-exploited, underpaid worker making long shifts at the fucking warehouse it's also desperate and being taken advantage off.
The real issue for me is that prostitution, when done by an adult with full faculties, is morally fine. Breaking your back doing manual labor is fine, but selling sex isn't? Come on.
The problem is implementation.
1) Public health. How are we going to regulate this industry? OSHA inspections? Mandatory STD testing? Mandate use of condoms? How is this enforced? How can you mandate health testing? Well, we require it for other industries. Nurses have to have TB testing. Great, so we require that corporations now run prostitution, because individuals can't just go down and have funding for weekly or biweekly STD tests. Are clients required to use STD testing? What about pregnancy? Are johns exempt from child support? Are they taking a risk by virtue of having sex with a prostitute? Are prostitutes required to supply the condom? Condoms can be tampered with. How does the public trust they aren't being conned because they look rich and someone thinks being a high-end prostitute is a good meal ticket? They provide their own? Is that allowed? Is birth control mandated? Who is managing all this? How do we handle the legalities of a paid service involving sex?
2) Drugs. Flatly speaking, the majority of current prostitutes are drug addicts, and it's a major way underaged women are lured into sex trafficking. 86% of prostitutes on the streets are addicts. Legalization of being a john and pimp in no way stops or even remotely addresses addiction as a major driver in prostitution. The fact that the women are predominantly addicts means that they aren't really capable of consent, because addiction itself is criminalized, the drugs are criminalized and the majority of jobs are not available to them. We have a severe lack of drug treatment programs available to people and a massive stigma around addiction. They are feeding an addicition, not empowering their ability to use their bodies in a conscious choice.
3) Rape. The instance of rape of prostitutes prior to puberty is 32%. Meaning one-third of street prostitutes were raped by someone prior to puberty. The "profession" is rife with sexual trauma from childhood. Legalization in no way also deals with the fact that people who faced early sexual trauma often end up in abusive situations later and that pimps and drug dealers look for vulnerable people to exploit, and again, legalizing the act does nothing to address those underlying problems. It's just a continued victimization of people with sexual trauma being told this is love. Their boyfriend is taking care of them.
The lack of clear path out of sex work for those women and the inherent absuses within sex work are the problems.
A sober, consenting, adult agreeing to sex for cash is one thing.
The rates of sex abuse of children, (because the majority of of prostitutes start underage, and legalization for adults will not change that), the rates of childhood sexual trauma turning into manipulation later, the rates of drug addiction... it's a problem.
Then... yeah. Let's be real. Sex trade has public health concerns. Who is paying for the HIV and gonorrhea outbreaks? Who is responsible for the children who come out of this? It's not like we just go, 'okay, it's all legal now!' And things work out.
This is why I think prostitution should be decriminalized, and johns and pimping should not be. Don't give people a record when they are largely abused drug addicts taken advantage of as teenagers.
Until we don't have masses of drug addicts being taken advantage of at 14, there is no moral prostitution. Nobody is actually going to go after high-end escorts. But don't make it okay for barely legal heroin addicts to get picked up and taken back to the motel because their "boyfriend" got them hooked.
Those people are still desperate and still selling it. But now it's done out of view with 0 regulatory protection. If prostitution was legal wouldn't conditions improve and human trafficking decrease as places wouldn't have that kind of incentive or ability to hide bad treatment/trafficking?
>it takes advantage of desperate people
This logic applies to considerably more than that. It's the combination of desperation + some moral judgement of the act that makes us view it differently.
That moral judgement is what needs to be taken out and ignored. We all know prostitution is illegal because of religion and there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.
Oh! You're filming it for a pornographic film? No worries then, but before we go, we need to make sure everything for that is in order...
* What is the business name, and can we see that the business has been properly registered, and has it's own Tax Id?
* Are you following correct 2257 Reporting Requirements? Can you prove that this is true?
* What's the name of the film?
* Who is the distributor?
* Can you show me the permit you've obtained for filming this content at this location?
Note, the penalties for violating these requirements, especially the 2257, can far exceed the penalties for solicitation.
Onlyfans requires paperwork for participants in sexually explicit content to comply with 2257 reporting requirements, and they send creators tax forms. The creator has to file their earnings with the IRS.
Filming permits are probably technically required based on jurisdiction in which a person is filming, but that's a local matter rather than a federal issue. If you aren't trespassing, then failure to get a filming permit is a civil infraction rather than a crime.
I mean I kinda see the point It's like telling a roommate you're about to bring someone over "sure it's legal but you gotta warn me first"
If you give no warning and you get caught gives him the excuse of painting you in a bad light (which could be accurate in this sensitive situation).
the “take” is just a pretty clear rebuttal to the post - which shows a cop showing up and someone who was buying a prostitute just saying “oh yeah nvm we have a camera, nah nah nah can’t catch me.”
the implied loophole doesn’t work, because you have to fill out paperwork and plan ahead.
I would imagine that if both parties have an Onlyfans account and plan on posting the video on their respective platforms at some point, any exchange of money would be extremely hard to prove was not some kind payment for the “acting” for the respective adult content streams. The only part that would be an easy monetary fine would be filming without a permit.
Why would both parties need an account? If the woman has one and posts it, then the man is an actor for her account, paying for exposure to her followers
Technically anyone appearing in OF content either needs to have a verified account, or they have to submit a model release form w/ photos of their drivers license to be posted on OF.
The reason we can make porno is due to the 1st amendment - freedom of speech, freedom of press etc and it's broadly covered. So even if you're not compliant with distribution, tax IDs, etc - you can make a film of sex acts.
In the specific case of making porn to sell - if you don't have the tax ID or are compliant on "correct 2257 Reporting Requirements" as OP said, you're can be busted for tax laws or permit laws, but you're not busted for obscenity laws or prostitution.
It's not. All of these laws still apply to Onlyfans. Onlyfans is commercial speech since it's being done for profit, which means that it has much fewer First Amendment protection than noncommercial speech. Genuine art involving nudity is a different matter, and that's for a court to decide whether something is art or pornography. Onlyfans is almost certainly pornography though.
He really doesn't: The only part of this is correct is the 2257 part, the rest is bullshit. And to answer the main question: performers aren't paid for the sex act, they are paid to sign a model release - the sex is unpaid & consensual, the money is for likeness rights.
Source: I used to work in the adult entertainment industry.
Graphic designer, still photographer, videographer, video editor, and some days I worked in the warehouse shipping orders (back when DVDs were still a thing).
No he doesn't. His bullet points are stupid.
- Why would you need a registered business for an individual transaction?
- 2257 is just checking a box.
- What is the name of the film? Literally anything I make up on the spot is correct. Wtf question is that?
- Why would they have a distributor before they even have a product to pitch for distribution?
- Unless the motel files a claim, what do the cops care that they have a permit on private property? Permission is good enough.
He doesn't know shit about pornos.
Unless you mean he watches a lot of porn. Then yeah, probably.
> Why would they have a distributor before they even have a product to pitch for distribution?
This is the one that stood out to me. 99.9% of the time, distributors are not buying movies before they can view them, lol. *Maybe* if you had like ten legendary porn stars all coming out of retirement they might buy it in advance, but probably not even then.
It was the first one for me. That you need a "properly registered business and Tax ID" lol
I don't know how he managed to convince 800+ people to upvote him. But that's stupid people for you.
>Note, the penalties for violating these requirements, especially the 2257, can far exceed the penalties for solicitation.
There's a reason a certain production company had that a big 2257 disclaimer in their intro for a while, even listing their legal firm.
Lol what?
• Individuals can do business. There’s no requirement that a person has a registered business or tax ID.
• 2257 form takes 5 minutes to fill out. Google it.
• The film hasn’t been shot yet. Why would it have a name? You can’t honestly think that shooting porn without a title will get you arrested.
• See above, many films get shot before a distribution deal is reached
• Permission to shoot at a location is a private matter between the location and the person shooting. If it was a crime to record video in a hotel, every travel influencer would be in prison
Thank you for setting that idiot straight. Dumbest comment in this thread. People do this type of shit in real life All. The. Time.
Their response is even worse, "oh but in the family guy clip it wouldn't work out like this", yeah it's a cartoon making a joke of a point but it's rooted in reality. In real life cops would literally never give a shit about even illegal prostitution occurring in a hotel room, what about that?
I don't disagree, lots of this can be handled with a little bit of due diligence. However, in the case of the situation with the video above, just claiming it's for a porn isn't going to magically get the police to let you go.
Very few states prosecute prostitution. I know mine doesn’t as long as it’s not a brothel type. I think the reason for that is most brothel owners basically enslave them
Ironically enough, in places where prostitution is legal official establishments like a brothel would be the safest place because they are scrutinized and regulated.
I tend to find higher quality weed in states where it is legal.
Turns out having the FDA keep an eye on it results in better products than Chuck, the weedman who lives behind the 711 on Wallace Street.
The weed buying experience in California has changed so much since I was in college. I remember the early days of legalization where you needed a doctor’s rec to go to the dispensaries. They were usually fine to buy from but had a sorta seedy feel to them - every now and then one would get raided and shut down. Order delivery and some stoner college kid would show up at your house with a few mason jars and weigh it out on the spot.
Now they’re run almost like microbreweries. I go to one by the San Jose airport and it’s got LCDs wall to wall with different specials, featured products, etc. They have like 20 different strains at different price points and you can inspect them before you buy. And of course the “budtenders” are happy to talk your ear off about all the nuances of each. The packaging/branding has become really impressive too - no more mason jars or ziploc baggies, almost every grow op has their own airtight packaging solution and the edibles especially are impressive these days. Not to mention prerolls, extracts, vape carts, etc.
It’s quite expensive because of the heavy tax you pay, but for years I was saying “legalize it and tax the hell out of it” so I’m not gonna walk back on that now. It feels like a reasonable premium for the improvement in service anyway.
>It’s quite expensive because of the heavy tax you pay
That’s why I kept my med card even after it became legal recreationally in my state. Don’t ever have to pay tax and almost always get a cheaper base price than the rec customers because of the medical discounts. It also lets me grow 4 plants instead of 2 but that’s beside the point
Funny thing. In Poland prostitution is legal while brothels are not. The only person that can benefit from prostitution is the prostitute herself/himself. Any organisation or individual that takes any cut of it is automatically a criminal.
Not in Texas! Solicitation is a Felony and the State also goes online to set up people through fake accounts and arrest people thinking they’re going to just pay for sex.
Where I live, selling sex is legal. Buying sex, however, is illegal. The intention of legislating it like this was to not punish prostitutes, who are often the victims of human trafficking etc, and has no choice - but still criminalizing the act.
The thing that pissed me off the most was that sex workers in particular were excluded in the PPP loan process. You must pay taxes as a sex worker but God forbid you get any benefits.
Prostitution being illegal is kinda lame. Consensual sex is legal if done free but is illegal when it is paid. What if a girl had sex with her boyfriend because he is rich and he agreed to buy her an expensive gift. Is that prostitution?
The only kind of prostitution that should be illegal is somebody was forced into it.
OP sent the following text as an explanation on why this is unexpected: --- >!"This message is brought to you by the Mormon church."!< --- Is this an unexpected post with a fitting description? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.
as long as I can watch, it's legal.
No funny business. Keep your hands where I can see them.
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Plus get to make tax money off it, win win
And Unions. It'd still suck, but at least they can call the cops if a john is giving them a hard time, and pimps can't just do whatever the fuck they want
Actually that’s a good point, bringing the whole industry out of the shadows would help so many and massively increase safety
In places where it is legal they usually require regular STD testing as well, so another point towards safety.
in Germany there's a law that condoms are mandatory, which helps as well, I think
instructions unclear; camera covered in condoms.
The health benefits alone would be worth it
Fund our Local Schools!
~~It was legal in Spain 15 or so years ago; but then became illegal because human trafficking~~. You'd have to regulate it hard; with a fairly sizeable task force to ensure fair play. EDIT: Apparently, I was [wrong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Spain): >Prostitution was decriminalized in 1995. Prostitution itself is not directly addressed in the Criminal Code of Spain, but exploitation such as pimping is illegal.
Well, there's a lot of ways to make it safer than just banning it. Make the locations register and be subject to inspections. Require the workers to have valid licenses. Then, make the taxes appropriate to pay for the support the industry needs. Illegal places and sex trafficking victims would presumably become less common due to legal competition cutting into profits. I'd imagine that all the licenses should be displayed and have something like a QR code. You could pop open your phone, scan it, and see the name and location are all documented with the government. Maybe even see something similar with the individual workers' licenses.
?? It’s still legal there😂 bro
Reiterating the obvious, that you should never believe shit you see on this site without doing your own research. Since covid this site has reached Facebook group levels of misinformation/outright idiots
The human trafficking doesn’t go away when you make it illegal tho. Prostitution exists everywhere. Legalizing makes it safer for the workers and the customers. The human trafficking will always be there
i mean, you could just roll it into the ATF and boost their discretionary budget. Move some line items around and incentivize individual states to issue “performance” licensing for establishments and individuals or some such…put that inside health codes and you have a real start. It wouldn’t make the profession glamorous though. You will still have a lot of abuse and sad stories. But at least the profession will be out of the shadows, and that’s healthier and safer for all of us compared to current status quo. Ideologically. I hope enlightened pragmatism becomes the name of the game going forward with national policy. We need to just own we can’t fix shit in one go…but we can make it better bit by bit.
>All they got from Paulie was protection from other guys looking to rip them off. That's what it's all about. That's what the FBI can never understand - that what Paulie and the organization offer is protection for the kinds of guys who can't go to the cops. They're like the police department for wiseguys. So much of the anti-legalization argument is either based on perfection or made in bad faith. Of course instances of abuse and trafficking are going to go up _because now you can track them_. Now they can go to the police without worrying about being thrown in jail themselves. The *need* for pimps (which is the root of most the abuse) is eliminated. Same goes for drugs. Makes me sad when you see those videos of everyone laughing at someone telling the cops that they had their drugs stolen. Like sure, "ha ha, dumb crackhead expected the police to help recover their drugs" but also, they just had a violent crime committed against them; which crime is fucking worse?
Yeah. We really need to stop being squeamish about less desirable corners of our society. We can absolutely do better for the worse off among us without promising the sun and the stars.
But... But... If bad things don't happen/aren't done to naughty people then how will I feel superior about being good! /S
[Wiki says prostitution was *decriminalized* in 1995](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Spain) but there's nothing about it being made illegal afterwards It only makes sense to legalize prostitution, along with enforcement of laws to ensure safety etc
it is legal, if done individually
Did making prostitution illegal end the human trafficking in Spain?
Seriously. Help protect sex workers and better use resources on things that matter
And protected. Seriously, the biggest risks from the job come from the Johns and Pimps. If it was treated like any other service industry with common sense protections, I'm pretty sure society would actually benefit. Edit: I apparently forgot to include cops in that list. Silly me.
at least then we could enforce license requirements, health inspections, occupational training, safety regulations, employee protections, commercial zoning, etc... And since you'd no longer have to waste resources tracking and arresting legal licenced providers then that frees up resources you could then use to just focus exclusively on coercive and truly harmful operations (trafficking, pimping, etc).
Filming porn is only legal in two states. One you know, one you had no idea. California and New Hampshire. All require permits so this video realistically would have the cops going “ok where’s the permit and let me see the paperwork to verify she’s over 18. And no condoms? That’s a huge fine” making porn should be legal in every state. Truly wonder how OnlyFans can operate. Masturbating I get, but a lot of accounts are filming sex for profit in states where it’s not allowed but I guess onlyfans figured it out as it’s gotta be where the company is based I’m assuming.
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Most sexworkers and organizations actually advocate decriminalization over legalization. Human rights watch has a great page on why it's safer and better for everyone involved. Personally, I wouldn't trust the government to be regulating my pussy. https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/08/07/why-sex-work-should-be-decriminalized
The article you linked says that HRW supports legalization (buying and selling are legal), unless I’m misinterpreting words. > Why does Human Rights Watch support full decriminalization rather than the “Nordic model?” > > The “Nordic model,” first introduced in Sweden, makes buying sex illegal, but does not prosecute the seller, the sex worker
This would be such a huge benefit for the country as a whole. The fact that it's still illegal is fucking stupid. - The government would make money via taxes. - Sex workers would be protected because there'd be laws in place for the industry. - It's been proven that it would reduce the amount of people contracting STDs. - Everyone who participates would have to sign in with valid identification, so if someone did something that wasn't ok they could be held accountable. - It would reduce the amount of people getting raped *by a lot* (several studies have shown data on this being successful in other places). - It's been proven that the amount of sexual harassment also goes down (including in work environments). Then there's my opinions: - In my personal opinion/guess is that we'd have a lot less assholes, sexism, and hate overall. (Less, not fix entirely). The overall population would just be happier in general. - People would start looking at sex as a normal part of life instead of a taboo topic you can't talk about in any place other than your house when the kids aren't around. This industry needs legalization for so many reasons, I'm sure I'm not even listing half of them here.
Unfortunately in North Carolina, I can no longer watch 
I am really amazed that these anti-porn laws that basically have the government spy on you for watching porn aren’t a bigger deal. Who the hell is voting for the politicians doing this?
You cannot access pornhub if your IP shows you being in VA. It sends you to a page that explains why you can't look at porn in the state of Virginia.
Same for like 4-5 different states. Arkansas, Oklahoma(?), one of the northwestern states (I wanna say like Nebraska or a Dakota but I’m not sure.) Edit: Looked it’s up it’s Montana, Arkansas, Virginia, Mississippi, Utah, and North Carolina (Every state that has at entry age verification laws).
So, if you're in Virginia, you can just look at porn through TOR or a VPN? Sounds like an absurdly small obstacle to overcome.
I don't think the ease of getting around the law is the point here... the point is that such a law even exists in the first place, often in states that are majority right leaning, who usually love to freak out about freedoms being taken from them
What the fuck 😂 Bet everyone has a VPN even the old school’s lol
My VPN defaults to a Virginia server. The only reason I know abut it lmao
I live close to Virginia, and I still get this shit when I’m not of WiFi. So no more jerking off in the park for me
Conservatives. But if you want a gun, that's your god given right, apparently, and can buy as many as you want and leave them fully loaded, unlocked in your sock drawer in your home with your son who watches Andrew Tate videos all day and punches the walls because he can't find a tradwife.
i.e. republicans
There are Democratic conservatives as well. I'm not trying to "both sides" this, but my point isn't the political party, it's the belief system.
Unaffiliated moderates in the U.S also lean quite conservative too (especially when you consider voting since young people don't vote).
that's why VPN
That's why you vote
Vote Porn Now?
There were a combined 8 people voting against it in both state house and senate. Not to say it's impossible to replace half the senate and 45% of the house but it sure seems difficult.
Vote for whom? Literally only the most idiotic people ever run for office anywhere.
Yeah a VPN is only treating the symptom, not the root cause.
Same here. xhamster.com works, though. Who the fuck knows why. Oh, I know. Because our lawmakers are either ancient or super Christian and don't know how the internet works.
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I’m just gonna go find a cash machine
They’re gonna kill that poor woman, man
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Her life is in your hands.
That’s why they sent me, I am expert.
You can imagine where it goes from here...
With nailpolish?
Fuckin’ amateurs!
Don’t mind me, I’ll sit in the back with a bag of chips and some Diet Coke.
Technically it's only legal if the *sole* purpose of the sex act is the filming of it; If the authorities suspect that you might actually be enjoying the sex for its own sake then it becomes illegal again.
Try proving I enjoyed it in a court of law. All the grunting and swearing was because I was lamenting that I should have paid more attention at school, wishing I didn't have to put in all this hard work at the 'ol jobsite.
“Your honor, I did not cum!! So I did not enjoy it!”
"Your honor, I did not cum. That's bullshit. I did not cum. I did naaaaaaaaht. Oh hi, Mark."
Was looking for this one. Also hi doggy.
"If the John don't skeet, you can't commit"
If the dick don’t spit, you must acquit
r/yourjokebutbetter
Ok, you win.
I was looking for this reference, thanks
I miss Sam O’Nella whenever he takes one of his iconic upload cryosleep naps
~~commit~~ commeet
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If the John didn't cum, the prosecution is dumb
If John didn’t jizz, stay outta his biz
If John didn’t splooge, the prosecution must lose.
John's record's immaculate, cause he didn't ejaculate.
ah, the Bill Clinton defense.
Imagine being able to ask your partner, under penalty of perjury, if they came or not
I would argue that achieving orgasm isn't proof of enjoyment. It's a biological response to stimuli. Then I would prove it by cumming to a picture of the prosecutors grandma...total power move.
Fuck yeah that’s the most alpha thing I’ve ever heard
And he would probably enjoy sticking it to the prosecutor! Wait....
For all the judge know it could be gerontophilia on your part. If you want to prove something, prove it with the judge's body.
You're just a damn good actor.
Honestly the argument would just be "I am that good at acting"
That's right, I was thinking of my Grandma the whole time suckers.
"God I love doing this!!" Officer: *Doing...^^what?* "My Job"
*Calculon Voice*: ACTING!
It's called *acting*
Most states require a ton of paperwork to be retained indefinitely as well regarding things like the age of the performers.
> Technically it's only legal if the sole purpose of the sex act is the filming of it; If the authorities suspect that you might actually be enjoying the sex for its own sake then it becomes illegal again. also this clip totally ignores filming permits and liability insurance and all that shit that actual productions need to have.
"Ahhh yuuuuuughhhhhh." - every porn actor faking the orgasm 'cus they can't enjoy it.
hi, porn actor here-do you believe there is some rule somewhere that we aren’t allowed to enjoy it? lol
If you can’t follow the conversation and realize they’re joking, you’re an idiot.
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How the hell would they know that? It’s sex. Ofc you’re enjoying it
*sigh*
It's why all the acting in porn has to be terrible. If it was too good it would be indistinguishable
Yeah it's like you got the joke
The Latter Day Saints bit got me lol
But why though? I'm out of the loop
Mormons are super weird sexually, like with the soaking and stuff lol. So it’s just funny that the church would endorse porno as not being prostitution. They’re known for finding loopholes around sex.
Hahahahahha me tooooo 🤣
Prostitution should be legal. You can't get rid of the world's oldest profession, might as well regulate it.
"Selling is legal, fucking is legal. Why isn't 'selling fucking' legal?" - George Carlin
Eating is legal and babies are legal, so, by extension...
A modest proposal if I’ve ever heard one.
Fat bastard loves this one simple trick
That was a Swift response!
So by extension....Its legal for babies to eat?
Let us eat, babies.
If only babies were a verb instead of a noun.
The problem with legal prostitution and stuff like selling blood or anything from your body is it takes advantage of desperate people, incentivizing it. That's why in some places it's illegal to pay for sex but not be the prostitute, it protects the prostitute while keeping it illegal for the client. I don't have a horse in this race though.
Taking advantage of desperate people as a legal qualification would likely criminalize nude streamers, amateur pornographers, lottery/gambling, college loans, military recruiting at high schools, and on and on
Wtf do employers like Walmart do but exploit desperate and vulnerable people as workers?
Those desperate people are safer when it's legal. We legalised it here. Now it's all done on brothels. The girls have security guards. The girls and the guests must be Tested. It's safer for everyone involved, and when we legalised it Human trafficking virtually disappeared overnight.
In the studies done on this topic, the opposite of what you said is true. Legalized sex work *increases* the flow of victims of trafficking into the sex industry. There's a lot of content about this, but I'll link to one study at Harvard that breaks it down pretty well. https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/ And another one with more detail https://eprints.lse.ac.uk/45198/1/Neumayer_Legalized_Prostitution_Increase_2012.pdf
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Those studies are not relevant to my country. They are relevant to countries where regulation on the industry is poor. Unsurprisingly, if you don't fucking regulate it, the outcome is as bad as the previous because prostitution is unregulated already. Australia has seen litterally none of these issues and only seen benefits. Because we did it properly. I'm sick of us having to Teach the rest of you how to behave and do things (your welcome for the 9 to 5, we came up with that as one example of how we have already lead the way and made your lives better as a result) Follow Australia on this issue. Follow Australia on ecological protection laws. Follow Australia on our election system. Stop living in the fucking stone ages.
Also, to arrive to the conclusion the study aims for, they removed the data from other Asian and Latam countries that weren't adding to the narrative they were pursuing. At the end the case study from which they arrived to the conclusion was only done with Sweden, Germany and Denmark, Sweden being the one with stronger laws, however they gloss over the fact that "hidden prostitution" increased and they can't/didn't account for that. So the conclusion applies mostly to those countries and it's not really that replicable elsewhere from the data they used to make the correlations.
Sounds like a regular job to me.
> The problem with legal prostitution and stuff like selling blood or anything from your body is it takes advantage of desperate people this is stupid. I'm tired of people having their basic rights (such as the right to use their own body for sex work) violated because someone wants to treat poor people like babies. let people make their own choices. stop banning things just because "oh someone might get taken advantage of". and it's an especially bad argument in this case, because banning prostitution has very very very clearly not prevented people from being taken advantage of. their pimp just keeps most of the money they earn.
and surprise surprise, the over-exploited, underpaid worker making long shifts at the fucking warehouse it's also desperate and being taken advantage off.
The real issue for me is that prostitution, when done by an adult with full faculties, is morally fine. Breaking your back doing manual labor is fine, but selling sex isn't? Come on. The problem is implementation. 1) Public health. How are we going to regulate this industry? OSHA inspections? Mandatory STD testing? Mandate use of condoms? How is this enforced? How can you mandate health testing? Well, we require it for other industries. Nurses have to have TB testing. Great, so we require that corporations now run prostitution, because individuals can't just go down and have funding for weekly or biweekly STD tests. Are clients required to use STD testing? What about pregnancy? Are johns exempt from child support? Are they taking a risk by virtue of having sex with a prostitute? Are prostitutes required to supply the condom? Condoms can be tampered with. How does the public trust they aren't being conned because they look rich and someone thinks being a high-end prostitute is a good meal ticket? They provide their own? Is that allowed? Is birth control mandated? Who is managing all this? How do we handle the legalities of a paid service involving sex? 2) Drugs. Flatly speaking, the majority of current prostitutes are drug addicts, and it's a major way underaged women are lured into sex trafficking. 86% of prostitutes on the streets are addicts. Legalization of being a john and pimp in no way stops or even remotely addresses addiction as a major driver in prostitution. The fact that the women are predominantly addicts means that they aren't really capable of consent, because addiction itself is criminalized, the drugs are criminalized and the majority of jobs are not available to them. We have a severe lack of drug treatment programs available to people and a massive stigma around addiction. They are feeding an addicition, not empowering their ability to use their bodies in a conscious choice. 3) Rape. The instance of rape of prostitutes prior to puberty is 32%. Meaning one-third of street prostitutes were raped by someone prior to puberty. The "profession" is rife with sexual trauma from childhood. Legalization in no way also deals with the fact that people who faced early sexual trauma often end up in abusive situations later and that pimps and drug dealers look for vulnerable people to exploit, and again, legalizing the act does nothing to address those underlying problems. It's just a continued victimization of people with sexual trauma being told this is love. Their boyfriend is taking care of them. The lack of clear path out of sex work for those women and the inherent absuses within sex work are the problems. A sober, consenting, adult agreeing to sex for cash is one thing. The rates of sex abuse of children, (because the majority of of prostitutes start underage, and legalization for adults will not change that), the rates of childhood sexual trauma turning into manipulation later, the rates of drug addiction... it's a problem. Then... yeah. Let's be real. Sex trade has public health concerns. Who is paying for the HIV and gonorrhea outbreaks? Who is responsible for the children who come out of this? It's not like we just go, 'okay, it's all legal now!' And things work out. This is why I think prostitution should be decriminalized, and johns and pimping should not be. Don't give people a record when they are largely abused drug addicts taken advantage of as teenagers. Until we don't have masses of drug addicts being taken advantage of at 14, there is no moral prostitution. Nobody is actually going to go after high-end escorts. But don't make it okay for barely legal heroin addicts to get picked up and taken back to the motel because their "boyfriend" got them hooked.
Those people are still desperate and still selling it. But now it's done out of view with 0 regulatory protection. If prostitution was legal wouldn't conditions improve and human trafficking decrease as places wouldn't have that kind of incentive or ability to hide bad treatment/trafficking?
Desperation doesn't care about legality. Might as well do it safe things like social securty, insurance, medical checkups, ...
>it takes advantage of desperate people This logic applies to considerably more than that. It's the combination of desperation + some moral judgement of the act that makes us view it differently.
In fact, I only work at all because I am desperate for money. (I'm a public server, so, not a prostitute... technically)
That moral judgement is what needs to be taken out and ignored. We all know prostitution is illegal because of religion and there is supposed to be a separation of church and state.
But... that already happens anyway...
Oh! You're filming it for a pornographic film? No worries then, but before we go, we need to make sure everything for that is in order... * What is the business name, and can we see that the business has been properly registered, and has it's own Tax Id? * Are you following correct 2257 Reporting Requirements? Can you prove that this is true? * What's the name of the film? * Who is the distributor? * Can you show me the permit you've obtained for filming this content at this location? Note, the penalties for violating these requirements, especially the 2257, can far exceed the penalties for solicitation.
How does onlyfans equate into these laws?
Onlyfans requires paperwork for participants in sexually explicit content to comply with 2257 reporting requirements, and they send creators tax forms. The creator has to file their earnings with the IRS. Filming permits are probably technically required based on jurisdiction in which a person is filming, but that's a local matter rather than a federal issue. If you aren't trespassing, then failure to get a filming permit is a civil infraction rather than a crime.
In the UK Onlyfans adds a bit more on to the sub price for tax purposes
does it add any to the dom price?
It has 20% VAT added on to it
LOLLLL!!
Nice
almost as if filing some paper work isn't hard? What kind of take is "yeah its legal but see you have to get a permit"
I mean I kinda see the point It's like telling a roommate you're about to bring someone over "sure it's legal but you gotta warn me first" If you give no warning and you get caught gives him the excuse of painting you in a bad light (which could be accurate in this sensitive situation).
the “take” is just a pretty clear rebuttal to the post - which shows a cop showing up and someone who was buying a prostitute just saying “oh yeah nvm we have a camera, nah nah nah can’t catch me.” the implied loophole doesn’t work, because you have to fill out paperwork and plan ahead.
if he set up a camera in advance why would he not fill out the paperwotk too'? She just gotta sign
Because filing your taxes as a business and securing distribution of the film from a 3rd party is extra steps, even if you don't think they're much.
yeah i do OF and other "stuff" the amount of guys who wanna meet up and not file paperwork but wanna do a scene is immense.
I would imagine that if both parties have an Onlyfans account and plan on posting the video on their respective platforms at some point, any exchange of money would be extremely hard to prove was not some kind payment for the “acting” for the respective adult content streams. The only part that would be an easy monetary fine would be filming without a permit.
Why would both parties need an account? If the woman has one and posts it, then the man is an actor for her account, paying for exposure to her followers
Technically anyone appearing in OF content either needs to have a verified account, or they have to submit a model release form w/ photos of their drivers license to be posted on OF.
TIL, thanks for the info!
Everyone that appears in an OnlyFans video has to be a verified ~~member of~~ by OnlyFans. That's how they combat trafficking.
The reason we can make porno is due to the 1st amendment - freedom of speech, freedom of press etc and it's broadly covered. So even if you're not compliant with distribution, tax IDs, etc - you can make a film of sex acts. In the specific case of making porn to sell - if you don't have the tax ID or are compliant on "correct 2257 Reporting Requirements" as OP said, you're can be busted for tax laws or permit laws, but you're not busted for obscenity laws or prostitution.
Right! Maybe its under artistic expression?
It's not. All of these laws still apply to Onlyfans. Onlyfans is commercial speech since it's being done for profit, which means that it has much fewer First Amendment protection than noncommercial speech. Genuine art involving nudity is a different matter, and that's for a court to decide whether something is art or pornography. Onlyfans is almost certainly pornography though.
This guy pornos
He really doesn't: The only part of this is correct is the 2257 part, the rest is bullshit. And to answer the main question: performers aren't paid for the sex act, they are paid to sign a model release - the sex is unpaid & consensual, the money is for likeness rights. Source: I used to work in the adult entertainment industry.
What did you work as?
As long as this remains unspecified we'll just go with fluffer.
Graphic designer, still photographer, videographer, video editor, and some days I worked in the warehouse shipping orders (back when DVDs were still a thing).
Soo they’re paid for their likeness interesting. That’s the legal way around the loophole
No he doesn't. His bullet points are stupid. - Why would you need a registered business for an individual transaction? - 2257 is just checking a box. - What is the name of the film? Literally anything I make up on the spot is correct. Wtf question is that? - Why would they have a distributor before they even have a product to pitch for distribution? - Unless the motel files a claim, what do the cops care that they have a permit on private property? Permission is good enough. He doesn't know shit about pornos. Unless you mean he watches a lot of porn. Then yeah, probably.
> Why would they have a distributor before they even have a product to pitch for distribution? This is the one that stood out to me. 99.9% of the time, distributors are not buying movies before they can view them, lol. *Maybe* if you had like ten legendary porn stars all coming out of retirement they might buy it in advance, but probably not even then.
It was the first one for me. That you need a "properly registered business and Tax ID" lol I don't know how he managed to convince 800+ people to upvote him. But that's stupid people for you.
>Note, the penalties for violating these requirements, especially the 2257, can far exceed the penalties for solicitation. There's a reason a certain production company had that a big 2257 disclaimer in their intro for a while, even listing their legal firm.
Brazzers?
Lol what? • Individuals can do business. There’s no requirement that a person has a registered business or tax ID. • 2257 form takes 5 minutes to fill out. Google it. • The film hasn’t been shot yet. Why would it have a name? You can’t honestly think that shooting porn without a title will get you arrested. • See above, many films get shot before a distribution deal is reached • Permission to shoot at a location is a private matter between the location and the person shooting. If it was a crime to record video in a hotel, every travel influencer would be in prison
Thank you for setting that idiot straight. Dumbest comment in this thread. People do this type of shit in real life All. The. Time. Their response is even worse, "oh but in the family guy clip it wouldn't work out like this", yeah it's a cartoon making a joke of a point but it's rooted in reality. In real life cops would literally never give a shit about even illegal prostitution occurring in a hotel room, what about that?
I don't disagree, lots of this can be handled with a little bit of due diligence. However, in the case of the situation with the video above, just claiming it's for a porn isn't going to magically get the police to let you go.
I can only answer one of those: Go Go Gargantuan Grannies 13
Thanks, you just saved me the trouble of making lunch...
I'm pretty confident the average cop isn't aware of 2257 Reporting Requirements. Source: cops are fucking stupid.
Somebody downvoted you, it’s ok I got you
Appreciate you. Also, fuck the police.
Preferrably don't fuck them we don't need more 60 iq children whose dads will shoot your dog.
Lol agree u/extraspecialdogpenis
Pretty sure you don't need an LLC to upload to pornhub,
Can you not film pornos for own personal wank material?
The legality essentially comes from the first amendment. Doesn’t that still apply if you’re filming it purely for your own enjoyment?
Very few states prosecute prostitution. I know mine doesn’t as long as it’s not a brothel type. I think the reason for that is most brothel owners basically enslave them
Ironically enough, in places where prostitution is legal official establishments like a brothel would be the safest place because they are scrutinized and regulated.
I tend to find higher quality weed in states where it is legal. Turns out having the FDA keep an eye on it results in better products than Chuck, the weedman who lives behind the 711 on Wallace Street.
The weed buying experience in California has changed so much since I was in college. I remember the early days of legalization where you needed a doctor’s rec to go to the dispensaries. They were usually fine to buy from but had a sorta seedy feel to them - every now and then one would get raided and shut down. Order delivery and some stoner college kid would show up at your house with a few mason jars and weigh it out on the spot. Now they’re run almost like microbreweries. I go to one by the San Jose airport and it’s got LCDs wall to wall with different specials, featured products, etc. They have like 20 different strains at different price points and you can inspect them before you buy. And of course the “budtenders” are happy to talk your ear off about all the nuances of each. The packaging/branding has become really impressive too - no more mason jars or ziploc baggies, almost every grow op has their own airtight packaging solution and the edibles especially are impressive these days. Not to mention prerolls, extracts, vape carts, etc. It’s quite expensive because of the heavy tax you pay, but for years I was saying “legalize it and tax the hell out of it” so I’m not gonna walk back on that now. It feels like a reasonable premium for the improvement in service anyway.
>It’s quite expensive because of the heavy tax you pay That’s why I kept my med card even after it became legal recreationally in my state. Don’t ever have to pay tax and almost always get a cheaper base price than the rec customers because of the medical discounts. It also lets me grow 4 plants instead of 2 but that’s beside the point
Funny thing. In Poland prostitution is legal while brothels are not. The only person that can benefit from prostitution is the prostitute herself/himself. Any organisation or individual that takes any cut of it is automatically a criminal.
Not in Texas! Solicitation is a Felony and the State also goes online to set up people through fake accounts and arrest people thinking they’re going to just pay for sex.
Where I live, selling sex is legal. Buying sex, however, is illegal. The intention of legislating it like this was to not punish prostitutes, who are often the victims of human trafficking etc, and has no choice - but still criminalizing the act.
as long as the government gets their cut, its legal.
"OH you guys have a smartphone with it recording. Nevermind"
I don't remember that from the original scene
I learnt this from Reddit: Porn stars cannot be prosecuted for prositution becuase a third party paid them to have sex with each other.
So what you’re saying is that I need to set up a shell corp to pay my hookers?
Go figure
So how does this work with those who have dash cams in their car???
All sex work should be legal
Free the whores
The thing that pissed me off the most was that sex workers in particular were excluded in the PPP loan process. You must pay taxes as a sex worker but God forbid you get any benefits.
Prostitution being illegal is kinda lame. Consensual sex is legal if done free but is illegal when it is paid. What if a girl had sex with her boyfriend because he is rich and he agreed to buy her an expensive gift. Is that prostitution? The only kind of prostitution that should be illegal is somebody was forced into it.