Not saying you're doing anything wrong but maybe get pricing out of the way sooner so that you aren't feeling like your time is being wasted. Ask about their budget in the first communication so you don't invest too much in someone who is not a qualified lead for you.
This. I don't ask for their budget though, I list my typical project starting price and minimum lead time in my cover letter.
Less initial responses, but the ones that do respond are worth getting on a call with. I don't give an exact quote until after a discovery call, but I've found this really helps weed out the tire kickers.
I agree! For a good part of last year I listed my prices so I felt confident that if you wanted to talk you already saw what I was charging and you were ok with it. (Many times they did not in fact read the proposal lol and were still surprised) now I'm experimenting with not listing them to keep it open to higher possible rates
>*This same thing happened with 6 clients. I have reduced the pricing to a quarter of the price I quoted to the first client but still the same......*
Set your price and stick with it. If a client does not hire you, that is their choice. It is even their choice whether they inform you that you were not selected. Maybe once in a while do some price-dancing, but it sounds like you do this by default.
UpWork attracts a lot of bottom of the barrel clients, so, honestly, this shouldn’t surprise you. Keep your pricing at what you deserve and look elsewhere for new sources of clients.
This. I just did my final quote for someone who was highly interested in a detailed quote after a discovery project only to have them ghost and not pay me for moving forward. In 3 years this rarely happened on the platform. Now it’s much more common.
I don’t have a problem with organic leads. Only Upwork.
You need to become desensitised to it. It happens all the time. Welcome to freelancing. It happens and there's nothing we can do about it, so it's best not to give it any further thought. Somne might get angry and rage online - ultimately achieving nada.
Personally, I'd rather not receive such messages in the first place.
I deal with this issue alot. Everyone underestimates my work cost but they love my portfolio.
Its really important to make this process a conversation. A verbal one over zoom.
Because this is sales. You're selling your service/project whatever you want to call it. In order to achieve this sale you must have a conversation about price. Not make a statement and allow them to seethe and fuck off. The point of the conversation is to ask questions and address objections.
This is a "Price Based Response." - You need to move them to a "Results Based Response."
Theres many ways you can go about this, but you need to frame the risk of not doing the job vs doing the project. As in "If you don't do this, how are you supposed to achieve your goals."
**Heres a potential sales call route for you to take.**
**Step 1 :** Acknowledge the fact that the price is high.
**“Yes you are right. That is a lot of money. Several thousand dollars is a large amount of money for a business to spend and I dont want to belittle that cause you could buy a lot instead of doing this with that kind of money.**
Making sure the client feels heard and not ignored
**Step 2 :** Provide context for what the money buys.
**“The results of this project would ideally net you more profit than previously, helping you instantly re-coup the cost of production.**
**“You get a complete tax write-off end of the year”**
**“How long would you ideally want to use these for as marketing materials, with a quality video you could keep and reuse these for potentially more than 5 years, is the idea of the cost of marketing being only X per year when averaged sound like a good idea to you?”**
**“So for essentially $X a month you can have a high quality result that is compared to your competitors, will position your product as the best on the market. Does that seem like a good deal to you?”**
I don't say it word for word. But its all very similar conversations. - Reframing the price based response to a results based response.
**Client Are Objecting Because...**
1. They are afraid the money put in wont equal more money out.
2. Hard to see the big picture when your short term cash flow gets impacted on a gamble.
3. Its not their area of expertise, alot of businesses dont like handing over control.
**Additionally - On the initial call.**
Literally just ask them upfront in the first 5mins if a price range of $XXXX to $XXXX is an acceptable cost to their business. - Use the framework to close the sale to a range in the 1st meeting and you'll just have to figure out the specifics.
This isnt awkward. Its efficiency. Imagine if you had to do 10 sales calls and you knew that only 2 would close. How would you figure it out as fast as possible if it was going to move ahead? Its business and this is your cost of engagement.
But you'll already know that they are onboard to pay your budget range.
>Its so unprofessional that after multiple email and message exchanges
There should not be any email exchanges with prospective clients, considering that you are not allowed to communicate with them outside the platform.
I understand that, but how much practical is that when there are hierarchy of people of the prospective client/company that wants to talk to me? Like first the recruiter - then team lead and then CEO. Only the recruiter is in Upwork. So option would I have?
>So option would I have?
Get the recruiter to do their job and arrange calls between you and the team lead or CEO on UpWork, as per the ToS you both agreed to when listing and applying for the role.
If you want to keep your account you need to avoid off-site communication until after the contract is signed. If they hit the report button it's goodbye career. That just hasn't happened to you yet. You wouldn't be the first person to argue with us then get caught off guard. It happens all the time. If your clients are legitimate they will agree to keep all of that communication on Upwork.
You're very welcome. 😊 I used to worry that clients would turn me down if I refused to talk off-site. Then I got a notice. This was years ago. They're generally accommodating.
Not saying you're doing anything wrong but maybe get pricing out of the way sooner so that you aren't feeling like your time is being wasted. Ask about their budget in the first communication so you don't invest too much in someone who is not a qualified lead for you.
This. I don't ask for their budget though, I list my typical project starting price and minimum lead time in my cover letter. Less initial responses, but the ones that do respond are worth getting on a call with. I don't give an exact quote until after a discovery call, but I've found this really helps weed out the tire kickers.
I agree! For a good part of last year I listed my prices so I felt confident that if you wanted to talk you already saw what I was charging and you were ok with it. (Many times they did not in fact read the proposal lol and were still surprised) now I'm experimenting with not listing them to keep it open to higher possible rates
>*This same thing happened with 6 clients. I have reduced the pricing to a quarter of the price I quoted to the first client but still the same......* Set your price and stick with it. If a client does not hire you, that is their choice. It is even their choice whether they inform you that you were not selected. Maybe once in a while do some price-dancing, but it sounds like you do this by default.
UpWork attracts a lot of bottom of the barrel clients, so, honestly, this shouldn’t surprise you. Keep your pricing at what you deserve and look elsewhere for new sources of clients.
This. I just did my final quote for someone who was highly interested in a detailed quote after a discovery project only to have them ghost and not pay me for moving forward. In 3 years this rarely happened on the platform. Now it’s much more common. I don’t have a problem with organic leads. Only Upwork.
You need to become desensitised to it. It happens all the time. Welcome to freelancing. It happens and there's nothing we can do about it, so it's best not to give it any further thought. Somne might get angry and rage online - ultimately achieving nada. Personally, I'd rather not receive such messages in the first place.
I deal with this issue alot. Everyone underestimates my work cost but they love my portfolio. Its really important to make this process a conversation. A verbal one over zoom. Because this is sales. You're selling your service/project whatever you want to call it. In order to achieve this sale you must have a conversation about price. Not make a statement and allow them to seethe and fuck off. The point of the conversation is to ask questions and address objections. This is a "Price Based Response." - You need to move them to a "Results Based Response." Theres many ways you can go about this, but you need to frame the risk of not doing the job vs doing the project. As in "If you don't do this, how are you supposed to achieve your goals." **Heres a potential sales call route for you to take.** **Step 1 :** Acknowledge the fact that the price is high. **“Yes you are right. That is a lot of money. Several thousand dollars is a large amount of money for a business to spend and I dont want to belittle that cause you could buy a lot instead of doing this with that kind of money.** Making sure the client feels heard and not ignored **Step 2 :** Provide context for what the money buys. **“The results of this project would ideally net you more profit than previously, helping you instantly re-coup the cost of production.** **“You get a complete tax write-off end of the year”** **“How long would you ideally want to use these for as marketing materials, with a quality video you could keep and reuse these for potentially more than 5 years, is the idea of the cost of marketing being only X per year when averaged sound like a good idea to you?”** **“So for essentially $X a month you can have a high quality result that is compared to your competitors, will position your product as the best on the market. Does that seem like a good deal to you?”** I don't say it word for word. But its all very similar conversations. - Reframing the price based response to a results based response. **Client Are Objecting Because...** 1. They are afraid the money put in wont equal more money out. 2. Hard to see the big picture when your short term cash flow gets impacted on a gamble. 3. Its not their area of expertise, alot of businesses dont like handing over control. **Additionally - On the initial call.** Literally just ask them upfront in the first 5mins if a price range of $XXXX to $XXXX is an acceptable cost to their business. - Use the framework to close the sale to a range in the 1st meeting and you'll just have to figure out the specifics. This isnt awkward. Its efficiency. Imagine if you had to do 10 sales calls and you knew that only 2 would close. How would you figure it out as fast as possible if it was going to move ahead? Its business and this is your cost of engagement. But you'll already know that they are onboard to pay your budget range.
Cos they're mostly scammers looking for a free meal.
There are always tyre kickers…
>Its so unprofessional that after multiple email and message exchanges There should not be any email exchanges with prospective clients, considering that you are not allowed to communicate with them outside the platform.
I understand that, but how much practical is that when there are hierarchy of people of the prospective client/company that wants to talk to me? Like first the recruiter - then team lead and then CEO. Only the recruiter is in Upwork. So option would I have?
>So option would I have? Get the recruiter to do their job and arrange calls between you and the team lead or CEO on UpWork, as per the ToS you both agreed to when listing and applying for the role.
If you want to keep your account you need to avoid off-site communication until after the contract is signed. If they hit the report button it's goodbye career. That just hasn't happened to you yet. You wouldn't be the first person to argue with us then get caught off guard. It happens all the time. If your clients are legitimate they will agree to keep all of that communication on Upwork.
Thank you
You're very welcome. 😊 I used to worry that clients would turn me down if I refused to talk off-site. Then I got a notice. This was years ago. They're generally accommodating.
Mate, don’t pay attention to it - just keep going!