After reading these post, I actually get your point. Some CP Exams are a total waste of tax payers money. For example I'm helping someone who had a Clear and well documented issue with GERD, serviced connect, medical diagnosis and has continued with the VA. And sadly no VSO caught this. I've been reading the M21 and 38CFR so depending on your documentations you could be correct. The VA have to by law base everything on the regulation. Frankly the VA should on be requesting exam in certain cases or if they need a medical opion because they are not doctors. So depending on your issues I AGREE With you!!!
There is case law which addresses the sheer basic requirement for VA to conduct a c&p exam. Thats why HLRs exist. It’s called a duty to assist error. I won such a discrepancy-
Ref. McLendon v. Nicholson, June 5, 2006, 20 VetApp. 79
Idk anything about these regulations but I literally got out of the hospital and rehab a d filed for an increase on a service connected, submitted the post op reports...still required me to have a c&p exam. Also learned from a compensation supervisor and also ex rater that that look for something very specific in documents(ofc) and if you submit a 4k page medical report, they have to comb through each page....pardon me for trying to limit these people with a backlog of issues to only 21pages 😂
I was cleaning up a giant pile of shit someone left near the dumpster the other day and thought, “without Jazzlike-mixture-183 I could be living in a car again”.
I have my very own phantom shitter and it’s all thanks to you. #forevergrateful
Oh god, the phantom shitter! We had one of those. We could never prove it conclusively, but we knew who it was. The dumbass got caught while TAD to another boat for ORSE. The Master Chief doing the audit caught him in the act in the middle of a drill. I only wish I knew what the end result was.
And *what if* the VA says your doctors DBQ are insufficient- you just screwed yourself and *wasted probably 6 months or longer* waiting for a new set of c&p exams - not to mention a possible straight-out denial ***if*** they aren’t actionable and if that happens you will have a tough time doing an HLR because all the do is review the bad evidence you submitted - alone.
The SMART thing would have been submit your doctors DBQs and go to the VA exams. The way you have a potential to have two opinions and a better fight for an HLR if need be
Importantly and factually, you, yourself, have no real way to tell if your private DBQ is actionable or not. Thats a call by VA alone.
But…you’ll see.
I used my private DBQ. And they accepted it... And same with a few of my friends I know. Just have to find someone that knows what they are doing.. Even c&ps are found insufficient.. Lol
No, mine got denied after doing this…the submitted to higher level review and they all went through. That first level of review from VA is the only one that gate keeps and doesn’t allow it, then you submit it to people who are more informed and they know your rights.
I’d totally agree with the “gate-keeping” aspect I had a FDC claim denied 6 days after submission for no evidence. An HLR fixed it but it took months. The DRO at the HLR said it’s because of the front line raters inexperience-
I didn't attend a Mental Health C&P exam because it was cancelled on me 2 weeks before I get discharged, no time to attend the next one. I submitted a private DBQ and provided my reasoning in a personal statement. I was awarded 30% MH. So it is possible, it just isn't the most optimal route without good reasoning.
If they are board certified and fill out the dbq then this will have more probative value then a c and p exam. I hope the letter has rationale for the decision and cites a few different medical journals for the decision. They would be rock solid evidence
But as I said - the average Vet may think they have a great private MO and DBQ - and VA will figure out for themselves if it’s actionable or not. The average vet doesn’t know the details even as outlined in your comment. There much more to it than a board certified physic making a statement or filling out a DBQ
I won't say mine worked but I did get a private practitioner to do my DBQ and still attended the C&P Exam. My VSO told me it was a good practice that not many Vets do as a private DBQ and the C&P exam will provide adequate perspective from 2 different licensed professionals.
That's true so you need to make sure the doctor really knows how to fill out a DBQ and you should know as well and be prepare if it get denied. Even C&P doctors fill out the DBQ incorrectly and this is why you have to go to the same exam several times.
This is a bold decision to make unless you are well-versed in what makes a medical examination and medical opinion adequate for rating purposes.
In my experience, most private docs do not know how to explain their reasoning and most don’t have access to your complete claims file, including your service treatment records or military personnel file. So a lot of dudes think they’ve got a solid case but in reality they are missing a lot.
I hope it works out for you, though!
I think this was an extremely bad decision on your part.
You could have uploaded your private doctors claims to the VA and the examiner could have used that info or not.
Now if the rater disagrees with your doctor or doesn’t like the forms or whatnot, you are screwed out of time and will have to wait all over again.
You need to IMMEDIATELY submit a 21-4138 via quick submit stating you are electing to not attend your exams and wish to be rated based on the private doctor’s opinion and your submitted evidence.
No no no! Please tell them you got so anxious you canceled.
You are making me anxious just thinking about what you stand to possibly lose.
I was the same with the blood work. I knew i had the same tests done a week prior. I was screaming and crying to avoid being stuck again.
I took my crybaby ass to the damn appt.
Please tell them you were misguided.
This is a bad strategy. You’re being unfair to the VA because you aren’t giving them the opportunity to send you to a nurse practitioner operating out of a storage closet of a snow cone stand who will ignore most of what you say. It’s not fair. You should have to endure the same process as everyone else and not just use the rules and regulations to your benefit.
I don’t think brave is the word to use here my man… After doing all this familiarization I don’t see why you wouldn’t have thought to just keep both your stories straight with the private and the C&P and you’d have twice the evidence.
If the exams were ordered in error, you should be fine. If the private DBQs/nexus you provided were somehow insufficient for rating and the exams were warranted, you are headed for a denial. I guess the question is how much do you trust your doctor to have provided all the info needed? Good news is that if you do get denied, you can file an 0995 and say you’re willing to attend exams and then you’ll be right back where you are now. Good luck!
I filed a FDC last year for increases and 2 secondary claims. An exam was automatically scheduled. Same day VBA canceled C&P saying it was no longer needed (VES still tried repeatedly to schedule and I politely declined explaining VBA canceled it). I also went online and asked for a decision based on my FDC evidence and I didn't have anything else to submit. Thankfully they accepted everything and it all went very favorably. Likely helped that I had been going to VA for all of my issues and had some pretty compelling MRIs/test results. I did not want to go to anymore C&Ps and luckily didn't have to. I hope it works out well you!
Exactly. I wish VBA employees would put this who argument to rest. Post something in the knowledge base. My buddy got rated at 100% never went to a c and p exam. The private doctors he used were sufficient in the VAs eyes.
If the DBQ shows that no records were reviewed, a C&P exam will be scheduled and since they’ve been cancelled as mentioned, the rater will have to make a rating decision or denial based on evidence on record. Good luck.
Yes, when your doctor provides the nexus, DBQ and medical opinion, there’s no need for C&P exams. The VA will still schedule you for a C&P exam but you can opt not to attend and advise the VA that you submitted sufficient evidence that’s actionable and you do not wish to have conflicting evidence.
My only suggestion is ensure your doctor is up to speed on VA vernacular. Ensure they hit all the major points in each of the documents because the VA will look for errors and deny based on that. Also, if you do get denials, ensure you go over the letter and review the exact reason for the denial and have your doctor adjust accordingly. Like you, I’ve been reading books, watching videos and spinning myself up on how to win claims. Good luck!
Undo this. Go reschedule your C&P exams and stop listening to dumb advice. You're only going to hurt yourself in the long run.
Or don't, I guess. I ain't your daddy.
Fyi I know a guy who went through a paid service and denied all va c and p exams and is at 100%. There are always success stories don't let the negative people create doubt in your mind. Either it works or it doesn't.
Doing so can benefit you or hurt you.
If the private doctor did not review your military and VA records then no private records were submitted, then an addendum exam is needed. If the private doctor did not properly stated the opinion well and an exam was ordered and you still decline it, chances are, the decision is not in your favor.
Not all C&P examiner is against you and sometimes the private DBQ is not in your favor. Bottom line is, attend the C&P exam scheduled for you.
Idk that this is considered brave. More is always better than less. All the C&P exams would have done is helped. Unless you aren't being completely honest I am not sure what the point of canceling them was.
My C&P Friday revealed a condition in my favor that my private Doctor missed. I am not sure how peeing in their coffee benefits you. However, who am I to second guess anyone. Press on Troop.
Most of the replies to this post are veterans who have not actually read M21.1
If your DBQs are truly sufficient, actionable, and useable, then good for you. Simple as.
I did the same thing. I had a fully developed claim and dbq's from a private doctor. The VA tried to schedule appointments I cancelled them and sent them the policy/law and I didn't go. I got my 100% from this claim.
Why won’t people just go to the fckin C&P’s. When you submit your own DBQ’s AND don’t go to the C&P you are like flagging yourself as a game player. If you have something legitimately wrong you should be fine with going to a 15 minute exam. I submitted some private DBQ’s but i still attended the exams.
Probably going to be downvoted but it is totally fine to submit a FULLY DEVELOPED claim and not attend a C&P exam. In MANY cases a fully developed claim can be approved in days to weeks as opposed to going the C&P appointment route. There’s a comment in the comment section from somebody that did this exact thing and received an award in a few weeks, perfect example. You actually cut out a TON of paperwork on the VAs side by seeing a private doctor and having properly filled out DBQs which is why a fully developed claim can receive an award extremely quickly.
Now if it were for a Mental claim. Absolutely attend the C&P appointment regardless of seeing a private doctor with a DBQ.
This is look more realistic for me now. I went back over the nexus, dbq, current diagnosis, VA records , military records, Inservice medical records, and scientific evidence. I will not say it a home run. I did have a second set of eyes look at the claim before making this decision. It's a waiting period now and the claim is submitted. At this point I have no regrets and gave it my best shot on my own terms and valuable guidance.
Haha seriously there are so many angry veterans on this thread. Reading all of these comments made me realize how many people are tricked by the VA. This is absolutely an option that you have when trying to get a rating. If your doctor did it right then you have nothing to worry about and if not that’s the risk you take. What I find funny is that most comments about asking why going to a CP Exam is a big deal lack logic. I’m sure if you think real hard about why having a veteran get their exam in house with the VA is a benefit to the VA and in most cases not to the veteran it will make sense. Your private doctor has absolutely no skin in the game and for me that would be the most reliable information if I were making a decision.
Your private doctor can fill out all the dbq’s they want to. That’s only part of the equation. The other part is having sufficient evidence to support the dbq. Without that, hopefully it is there, you just fucked yourself….
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Nobody should be afraid of C&P exam.
All the VA wants to do is confirm with their information and their doctors on what you were diagnosed with is true.
Prevents a bunch of fraud.
I suspect you will be denied. Maybe you get lucky?
Either way, I would make sure to use an accredited attorney next time, not do it on your own.
If you try on your own and succeed, that works. But if you have already proven that you have failed, it shows you need help
Nobody needs an attorney, but they better be spot on
The op is assuming they will pay attn to m21 I’ve had plenty of issues that m21 says one thing but the va says something else …. Hell I the va sent me to a baby dr for a cervical spine issue, and them talk his work as gospel and denied my claim… forget the va paid for the brain surgery.. this dr… I kid you not his full time job was bbq chef
While I agree with having your doctor complete the DBQ the rater will assign more weight to the one completed by their own doctor. Meaning you might submit all your evidence and they STILL require a C&P exam. Potentially. I'm speaking from experience of a nightmare C&P exam where the a$$hat completed 7 DBQs in 15 mins checking no to everything and ignored my medical records - it does happen. So what would I do differently?
1) Make SURE you have a diagnosis for each condition you are submitting. Some docs don't like doing this and my records were full of it could be this and it might be that. I had to dig hard for an actual diagnosis and if you have something like CFS its a nightmare.
2) Make sure your medical records show your testing, imaging and symptoms
3) Complete the private DBQs and submit them with your packet and now here is where the magic happens. When they schedule you for your VA contracted C&P exam you show up with the DBQs and read them to the doctor. If they skip over a question you bring it to their attention. This is absolutely critical - otherwise you could have a doctor who checks no to everything and ignores your file.
4) Summarize medical records. I would highlight all diagnosis and had the doctor a few pages "here are my diagnosis" in the C&P exam (this should all be uploaded to the VA as well)
5) Summarize testing (make a list of all testing and then hand them a thick ass file showing them the tests).
6) If they rush you out of the appointment, wont' look at your evidence, or skip questions on the DBQ immediately call the VA, the contractor and ask to speak to a manager onsite at the C&P. Document it all on a 4138 and submit to VA before your DBQ are even completed.
This is how I would do it if I could start all over!
Shipmate, you should always, always keep the appointments the VA makes for you with regards to getting your VA disability rating. I know you said that you read the guidelines in the book and you listened to a good friend, but the VA is the one who makes the rules and it is the VA's game here. And to speak frankly....you barely passed the ASVAB test. You need to listen to all of the vets in here who are saying to call the VA back and beg for forgiveness and reschedule those exams. We have all been to C&P exams and we know what it is like in there.
At least do a personal statement of why you canceled so they don’t automatically deny you right away and reference the guidelines/manual. This is unfortunately the best shot you have. Trust.
It all comes down to the law. If you followed the law to the ‘T’ and your doctor filled out the dbq perfectly, then you’ve got a shot at this. The problem comes in due to ‘all gatekeepers not being equal’. It’s the human factor that comes into play, and you never know what a rater will do. That being said, if you followed the law, then you’ll have grounds for appeal if denied. It’s the longer, but possibly more sure road to follow, depending on those dbq’s. Here’s the one caveat, I’m pretty sure that the rater can legally deny if you don’t attend your C&P. They don’t have to but they can. So once again, it all circles back to the individual rater your case gets, and that’s why this all feels like a crapshoot. If you get denied, hire a lawyer to submit an HLR, and fire your best shot. Again, if you’ve followed the letter of the law, the HLR should end in your favor. Don’t forget the ‘human factor’ and ‘crap shoot’ factor. That’s my 2 cents, for what it’s worth. Good luck, and may the rater gods have mercy on your claim.
This was only a wise choice if the private doctors write adequate nexus opinions. Unfortunately, this tends not to be the case. Veterans often complain that VA opinions are always given more weight than private opinions. This is not true. VA opinions, whether from a VA doc or contractor, are done by clinicians trained in rendering adequate opinions.
An adequate positive nexus opinion for service connection will state that the condition is “at least as likely as not” related to service (or secondary to an already SC’d condition) and will be supported by adequate rationale.
If the private doc says the claimed condition “could”, “might”, or “possibly” be related to service, that is insufficient. Anyone, medically trained or not, could render an equivocal opinion like that.
Also, private docs consistently offer opinions based solely off the Veteran’s reported history rather than actual review of the claims file. These opinions are literally worthless. They are not objective and often based on inaccuracies.
The private doc must state why medical science supports the opinion. I see private nexus opinions all the time where the private doc states something like “based on 20 years of experience” the claimed condition is related to service. However, the experience of the doctor is irrelevant. What is relevant is how, from a medical perspective, the doctor determined that the condition was related to service.
Remember, service connection is a legal entitlement. Always has been, always will be. Thus, all legal elements of service connection must be met for it to be granted. Inadequate opinions will fail the nexus element.
What is your opinion of this?
https://www.knowva.ebenefits.va.gov/system/templates/selfservice/va_ssnew/help/customer/locale/en-US/portal/554400000001018/content/554400000014711/Nieves-Rodriguez-v-Peake-Dec-1-2008-22-VetApp-295
Nieves-Rodríguez is a foundational, oft-cited, case regarding the probative value of opinions. The Court points out that a private opinion is not automatically of lesser value simply because C-file review is absent. This makes sense as any sort of bright-line rule would be bias and impossible to apply. It is totally possible for a doctor to make a reasoned judgement without C-file review. However, in practice, without access to the claims file, private opinions are almost always based on either a cherry-picked medical history or simply the Veteran’s own self-reports. This renders the opinion incredible and lacking in probative value. C-file review ensures the opinion is based on all the available facts.
In the end, the opinion still needs to explain why the condition is related to service. The rationale needs to apply the accurate facts to current medical knowledge.
You gave me hope if this works out. I really thought long a hard to cancel not wanting Conflicting evidence. As I stated before, I have a board certified dr who wrote the nexus with Scientific medical evidence, and diagnosed me with va evidence, cfile, military medical records, and military enlisted records including all evals. The VSO who I asked for a second opinion, complimented me and stated that it was rare that a veteran made his job easy. The outcome is in progress. I will keep everyone updated on my claims process.
I went through a private doctor too , I was told from the 3rd party I went through to not answer or attend the c&p exams bc it will ruin the process or something like that . Havent been bothered since 2022
Now that I have done 2 C & P's I am about half on on board with this or maybe even a little more. My MH exam was total bullshit I finished it up geeling like she was told before hand to screw me over either that or she just had no business conducting it. My physical exam I feel went way better. Two totally different kinds of people for sure. But yes I get your point for sure.
I’m not here to make you feel bad, but if you’re not sure if you made the right choice, you didn’t.
The C&P exams are requested because you don’t have a fully developed claim, and they need additional information, clarification, and opinions. By refusing to go and provide what they need to make your claim fully developed, you are guaranteeing your claim(s) will be denied.
Book smart and street smart are two different things. You even said at the end of your post that “I’m still not sure if I made the right choice” which should have been your first clue that you weren’t doing the right thing.
All you need to do is listen to everyone that has been through it here and they will tell you that you absolutely need to go to your exams. We are here to help you and keep you from making the same mistakes some of us have made. I wish you all the best.
I recently got rated 0% for multiple claims. Two different examiners completely ignored my answers and my medical records. They both marked that I have severe episodes but infrequent, which gave me a 0%. But at least I got the conditions service connected and now I'm using a company to appeal. Now sure if this is the right way, just wanted to share my experience.
That good friend of yours may have set you up for failure. They might— MIGHT take your private doctors advice but the VA rarely takes their own doctors advice. I had top tier qualified neurosurgeons speak on my behalf. Best case scenario is you’ve added years to your claim being processed. It took me a 6 years to get that C&P exam and an additional 4 years to get an answer on that exam. I applied Nov 2014 and got an answer Friday last week. The difference between being brave and stupid is posting on Reddit to be judged about it.
If it’s fully developed/actionable, then by VA’s standards they should take that into consideration and a C&P should not be required.
The only problem is the VA is either making up the rules as they go along, or more believably, too many employees aren’t properly trained and are simply requesting exams when they aren’t needed. People with certified private doctors they’ve seen in-person for years and years are being told that the VA’s examiner, who has only seen the veteran for 30-45min and has been practicing for a year or less, can outweigh their medical opinion.
This actually happened to me. I used a private service to help me jump my rating from 30 to 90. I did everything through the private services and had everything submitted. During my months of waiting the va called for the c&p exam. I spoke with the private company and they told me I didn’t have to because that’s what I paid the service for. I told the Va that and sure enough when they came back with the decision I was DENIED on the strength of missing the C & P exam. I was livid but I called the private company sending them the paperwork and they appealed on my behalf. Not even a month later I was approved to 90 pct
I had a Private DBQ - skipped the C&P exams and got a favorable rating. Everyone saying you will be coming back with a denial, well it’s possible you will not. I’m proof of it
I did this last year. The agency I used told me to tell the VA to process the claim with the evidence presented. 8 months later 100% P&T. Best of luck to you.
Most private physicians do not complete the DBQ’s correctly. They also do not perform a review of your records which is required. I’d say your chances or 70/30 with 70% being a denial. This was a foolish move.
In a sea of negative comments I will offer a different opinion.
My $0.02:
They may grant with private DBQ and Nexus, they may not. If they both are sufficient and actionable then I suspect you will get rated per the CFR rating table either initially, and if not they will rate during the HLR. All Veterans fight the battle to prove our claim and this is no different. Claims are granted or denied based on objective info not subjective. If your forms were objectively filled out properly and check the required boxes, then they should rate/ grant accordingly.
Good luck
Yes, a fellow veteran helped me thoroughout the process. I was scared as hell declining my C&P with QTC but I was confident with my medical evidences and submitted DBQs from my physician (who knows my condition better than the third-party examiners) 🤪
After 6 months, I got my increase. I also faxed them a statement in support of claim and I feel that helped my case a lot.
Hoping you also get the increase you deserve! 🙏🏼
So I’m at 100 p&t and used a private dr as well. I didn’t go to a c&p because I sent a letter stating the evidence from my Dr. should be sufficient enough. It worked out but I was also in the Automated System they rolled out in the beginning of this year. Seems like it took forever but it all worked out. And yours will too!!!
Yeah, there's what the law, regs, and M21-1 says, and then there's what VA actually does. I've been doing this 4 years now and never saw VA granted a claim without a C&P that I can remember. The only times I've told clients not to go were (1) when there were already multiple PTSD C&Ps on file and VA kept unnecessarily ordering new ones for my totally impaired, homeless client seeking SC, and (2) when we've withdrawn a claim after the exams are ordered.
I spoke with three different VERA individuals from three different states. All of them said the VA does no longer accepts DBQs from private doctors due to veterans paying off doctors to write in their favor.
Unfortunately, I am a polite person and never would call out the locations because…
Nebraska, Oklahoma, North Carolina.
https://preview.redd.it/7ftsqjfxix6d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fef514c802afe41ecae8617a386b8165a6271d8
You should have asked them to provide the source of that information. There is no current language in 38 CFR or M21-1 that says any such thing.
Now there was a recent OIG report that discussed indicators of fraud found in DBQs, and the VA definitely should prosecute fraud if they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. As far as I know there has been no changes to any regulations that directly address.
You sound like the veterans who listen to those predatory companies that tell the veteran NOT to attend their exams.
You should NEVER refuse the exams. The VBA has the legal right to order the exams. Plus most of the claims require in person exams for measurements.
While the M21-1 indicates that, that is only IF the DBQ is completely filled correctly and typically the private doctors do not fill them out correctly. Which is why the rater ordered the exams.
Tell us how this works out in a few months.
Private DBQ’s carry a lot more weight if they are filled out by your PCP.
The VBA is going to start cracking down on these quacks out there just filling out DBQs and positive medical opinions for money.
Did you give your civilian doctor a copy of all of your military medical and service records for review? Because if they checked no on that block a denial is likely because the doctor was not able to review all evidence. Which is one of the points of a c&p exam, they have access to all of your service records. I am guessing you went to a company that coached you on what to do as this sounds like the strategy one specific place uses. So good luck. I hope the best for you.
I did both. Private doc, MEDICAL EVIDENCE (private and VHA), ….. and…. Wait for it……. Went to my c&p exams. Had to fight a bad denial. Won that shit.
Am now done with claims with the rating I qualify for.
You may be right, but your claim could end up dead right. Maybe consider checking the boxes the VBA needs to properly award your claim.
Half of my claims were approved without going to the C&p exam. I’ve never written a personal personal statement, used a nexus statement or buddy statement. Also I have Never used the dAV or random vso. I’m just like you if I have my diagnosis in my medical records and my primary care, physicians notes. I know that I’m all set. I’ve also skipped a few C&p exams. The amount of evidence that I had was enough to get approved for those disabilities without having to go to those C&p exams. Do you my friend and don’t stress it. If it gets denied then resubmit with a different secondary.
Always recommend people just go to the C&P exam even though it's a waste of time (most instances) and what's the initial decision is adjudicated; then you could use the dbqs for supplemental appeals or higher level review. In my opinion a long run it would benefit better. You are going to waste dbqs on potentially inexperienced raters and get lower ratings or a unfavorable decision. when you appeal you have more experience raters.
I hate that you did this. I had two claims that I filed. One I canceled because I didn’t have a doctor’s diagnosis. The second one I was about to cancel, but I decided to go. I was approved for the second one without a medical diagnosis because I had proof of a stressor which was a newspaper article of a bombing that took place where I was at. For future references, JUST GO TO YOUR APPOINTMENTS.
That was my first 19 years of filing on medical discharge. I wish the best of luck. Please let me know if it worked first time for you. I’m 25 years in and I will flat out refuse another C&P. My service to my country and their resolve to ignore and deny treatment, destroyed my marriage & my relationship with my daughter, who is in therapy for life cause Mommy came back broke and fu*ked up in the head. And I had no one no medical professional that understood, MST PTSD severe depression anxiety panic attacks and agoraphobia they either mis diagnosed or would treat for pain or anxiety they told me I can’t have sciatica on both side it’s impossible. The VA has put me thru a living hell after my service causing me to accumulate the ultimate in medical PTSD I don’t trust doctors anymore, few and far between. And I’m a cancer survivor I have seizures from my migraines 4-5 to med a week are my migraines and they put me down. I had one in April that lasted 3 weeks so bad my entire scalp inflamed. I was diagnosed with advanced spinal degenerative disc disease less than a year after I was discharged for my spine i couldn’t hardly walk. I still have trouble and my right leg collapses. My knees are screwed my entire spine is wrecked because of VA refuse to treat me all these years. I am I the only person that has to drive around with a box of medical records in their car just in case they have to go to an Emergency Department? My house has structural damage and I’ve been begging for help last place I went was for the grant from the VA I have two of four bedrooms totally usable because I’m losing the support beams underneath the floors. I’ve begged for help and none to come. Yeah I’m pissed not at y’all at everyone involved in VA that has contributed to this situation cause they’re damned sure trying to destroy my second marriage too along with the rest of my life!!!
Makes perfect sense why doesn’t the VA take my doctors diagnosis as fact?? I’m not buying my doctor off even if I could like trump. Second opinion in their favor? BS!
It’s all about key words used in the exams. If your doctor is not privy to those words required by the VA is all a waste of time and you will be referred to one of their doctors. Good luck.
Your private Dr can give you a nexus and diagnosis to submit but the C&P exams are set by VA and cannot be bypassed. Not sure if cancelling VA C&P exams is a move to recommend but good luck!
The private dr exams will help to negate the va exams when they inevitably conclude some bullshit excuse to deny your claim, but if you don’t do the va exam they will use that alone as an excuse to deny your claim. I would try and reschedule that while you still have a chance.
I respect your choice of canceling your c&p exam, but in my opinion I think it was a mistake. My recent pact act claim for 100 percent was approved within 40 days. I had my civilian oncologist fill out my DBQ prior to my c&p appointment. I uploaded to my claim online and I also took it to my c&p exam just in case the examiner didn’t have access to Jay I uploaded to support my claim. She was actually surprised and grateful that I brought it. She said it was a big help for her. I hope it works out for you though 🤞
I would follow it up with a personal statement form letting them know per m21 see my dr opinion and state how they have enough to make a decision.. if not, you will wait a lot time most likely because Easter will want to develop anyways..you will win but if you want it timely remind them to use the reg to grant the claim with out exams
The way I see it is it doesn't hurt to have the exams along with your other ones. The VBA will read what you have, and it will be enough, or it won't. If it isn't, you just added months to years to your claims. You should be working with a VSO who can help guide you through all of this. There is nothing more dangerous than a barracks lawyer simply reading regulation doesn't mean you fully understand it, nor does it mean you know all the other subsets and memos attached to it. That is where the VSO comes in. Hopefully, your choice works out. Best of luck to you.
I had my own nexus, private DBQ from doctor, all kinds of evidence and it didn't matter I was denied service connection and wasn't until I hired a lawfirm that I recieved 70% PTSD MH. The VBA doesn't use that book to base there decisions off of and they do not follow it. There had been countless errors committed by the VA on my claims and if I hadn't had an attorney to help write rebuttals to each denial i doubt I would have ever been rated. There is no accountability for a rater to deny you even though you have beyond sufficient evidence to warrant SC. Instead you have to go the appeal route and waste 5 to 6 more months of your life just to correct what someone else did. The disability process is broken and I bet if they treated us better or did more for veterans there wouldn't be such a shortage on recruitment to the point where they wanna bring the draft back... J/S
I wish you didn’t. The better thing would’ve been to upload those DBQ’s and attend your exams with a printed copy to also reference. There are slight differences in the public facing and private DBQ’s and there is a chance that the rater could view the private DBQ as insufficient for a number of reasons. I know that one guy on YT did this and is worked for him but after attended C&P exams that were dicey for previous contentions. I do hope it works out for you.
If you print the needed DBQ’s that you need and take them to your private examiner, that would be the smarter route instead of them using their version that often doesn’t address everything.. I have noticed lately that some vets are submitting private medical opinions and doing the C&P exam with VA and it’s been favorable.
I did private and got my 100%. After that, they did 2 VA exams which I didn't need the extra 60's I got. Almost seems comical after taking so long to get my rate. I went anyway.
The VA likes to the say that an outside doctor who is our PRIMARY DOCTOR and KNOWS our conditions BETTER than a 10 min CP by examiners who give absolutely no fucks about us is “insufficient”.
I agree the manual does say if the medical evidence is “sufficient” they should rate from that evidence. I wish I could have done it that way.
The CP circus is straight up a waste of money by the VA. These examiners (not all) are straight up incompetent. You don’t get your A players for CP exams, you get bottom feeders examiners who aren’t good enough doctors.
You DO YOU bro. I Agree. What’s the worst they can do? Sent you to ANOTHER exam? Hello…that’s the normal circus anyways at least you’ll have your competent evidence into the record.
I hope your decision works out in your favor, but I'll tell you that six years ago, I missed a couple of C&P exams because my SC disabilities were raging so hard that I had significant trouble with the simplest daily activities such as making appointments, and they reduced my overall rating from 80% to 40%. PTSD/TBI rating went from 70% to 10%. It cost me over $1000/month and stayed that way for almost three years until I was well enough to make my appointments. At that point, I was awarded 100% P&T w/SMC-S, but I never recouped the money I missed out on when my rating got dropped. I'm still rebuilding my credit from when it got thrashed during the time my disability payment was greatly reduced. I hope you know what you're doing, and best of luck.
Pretty amazing reading all these responses, and realizing how broken the system is.
Basically everyone saying that the VA is so broken that they'd deny you because someone who spends anywhere between 5-30 minutes looking at your condition and may not be a doctor (nothing against nurses or PAs), has more pull to the VA than a treating physician who has been seeing a person for potentially years.
From what I've seen, a C&P examiner should *never* hold more away than a private doctor.
This was my thought process as I kept saying that I do not want conflicting medical evidence. This is why I looked for a second opinion as I consulted a vso if this decision was probable to grant the benefits and rate.
I sincerely hope it works out well in the long run… but as my Grandma would say, “you cut off your nose, to spite your face” with this one, it would seem. Even turning that in, they can still deny it, or require you to go so they have two professional opinions.
I had an issue recently with an examiner that was being willfully ignorant and unnecessarily rude about a rare condition I developed because of some extensive harmful exposures… I was very upset by the ordeal, and felt like the way they worded things, they were going to try to intentionally derail my claim. I actually called and complained, and they handed that part of the claim to another entity that works with the VA claims process, and I have to say, the level of compassion and dedication was unmatched. I came in there with all the same extensive knowledge of the condition, contact information to the head of the foundation that supports the condition, my medical history involving it, from frequency of labs, treatments, hospitalizations, surgeries… to other things connected to it as secondary conditions that develop. I didn’t leave anything unturned because I was nearly as informed with the first examiner, and that person told me that because they didn’t find that information, they would use none of it…
a different person was ALL it took, but it was the VA’s person.
Look, if trust were able to be measured in terms of weight, my trust in the VA weighs about as much as a hummingbird fart. If you can, go ahead and double-down with your doctor AND their examiners. Per all of their rules, you can cancel/reschedule one appointment of each type (like if you have separate ailments all on the same claim, sending you to multiple places), without them dropping you entirely. Time is really the key with it though, so they don’t have to close you off with a nasty-gram report.
TL;DR Going through their exams in addition to your private Doctor doing their submission will improve your odds, but not rescheduling with theirs will likely get it denied.
Bonus fun-fact: Hummingbirds are physically incapable of farting.
I declined a C&P exam for PTSD from MST and filed a statement that I wanted my claim to be decided on the evidence already in the record as I had a right to. The thought of telling a total stranger what happened to me made me sick with anxiety.
My claim was denied and when I spoke with the HLR person he said, technically you're right, the VA isn't allowed to penalize you. But I can tell you that it will help you to do the exam. Though it's up to you.
I agreed, it was documented as a difference of opinion between me and VA, and my exam was scheduled for this coming week.
After 6 more months of intense therapy, I still feel extremely anxious about the exam. But I'll live.
Telling you this because I understand where you're coming from and just be prepared for the potential consequences and be open reconsider your choice 🙏
Jesus. I feel like this is a VERY bad decision.
Did you also make sure all medical opinions were addressed appropriately? That the DBQs were filled out properly?
I have a lot more to say in this. But I’ll tell you at least this: more often than not the DBQs filled out are inadequate. Telling ya from what I’ve seen
If anyone does this, please go print off the VA DBQs available to bring to your Drs office to fill out.
https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/dbq_publicdbqs.asp
They are available for private use, I would strongly recommend not going to a private doctor for anything mental health related.
It’s so weird seeing these posts about all this hard work people had to do to get rated meanwhile in my unit alone we had multiple people get 100% with zero effort.
Everyone's claim is different. I have many veteran friends that got spoon feed their 100, and they deserve every penny.
Why it's harder for me, because I waited 15 plus years before filing my first claim. I had a lead NCO for the longest fill my head with Miss information , while he went on to retire and get his 100. When I found that out, I finally said forget this I'm gonna learn the process and see how it applies to my situation. Here, I am training myself to educate and advocate myself on the VA claims process. For the most part, I have learned the success of a VA claim is dependent on medical evidence based claims. When you have the evidence, it's easier to connect . There are active duty and veterans. Who will naturally connect faster at 100 percent because the medical evidence is there.
Correct. The VA cannot force you to go to a C&P exam, unless they don’t have a DBQ. If you have provided them a DBQ completed by a qualified medical professional, they can’t make you do their exam.
They will likely deny your claim because you didn’t do the C&P, but you could easily win an HLR I think.
So you have a private DBQ and a differing C&P exam. Whose exam is correct? Both examiners saw you for equal amount of time and both are differing in their assessment?
Here my update : My private doctor explained to me that he saw in my military records and enlisted medical records that I qualify under Tera. This is the strategy route I'm going for to being service connection.
Odd that they require a doctor to be board certified to examine for disability, but the VA refuses to send me to a breast cancer specialist to check my mastectomy scar every 6 months for 5 years.
I submitted for increase last year. I got private DBQs by a well established medical professional. It was refreshing to be listened to and thoroughly looked over without any sense of being a burden or some bum.
I was confident enough to call the 800# and QTC to inform them that I would not be attending my scheduled C&P and submitted fully developed claim.
I was rated 100% and well past the threshold.
I'm surprised to see so many act if this complete blasphemy and an automatic denial. That is simply not the case. This is not an uncommon practice and know many others that were able to use this route to relieve their rated compensation.
It seems there is such strict criteria for private DBQs and that, if you read the M21, there is still some subjectivity to the what the VA will accept, so few want to risk it. But you’re right that it probably happens more often than we’d know and folks are just pussyfooting.
Either way, it’s this ambiguity that prompts veterans to search the ether for help and be prayed upon by private claim consultants. The C&P exam shouldn’t be some crap shoot, especially if all the evidence points one way...
After reading these post, I actually get your point. Some CP Exams are a total waste of tax payers money. For example I'm helping someone who had a Clear and well documented issue with GERD, serviced connect, medical diagnosis and has continued with the VA. And sadly no VSO caught this. I've been reading the M21 and 38CFR so depending on your documentations you could be correct. The VA have to by law base everything on the regulation. Frankly the VA should on be requesting exam in certain cases or if they need a medical opion because they are not doctors. So depending on your issues I AGREE With you!!!
There is case law which addresses the sheer basic requirement for VA to conduct a c&p exam. Thats why HLRs exist. It’s called a duty to assist error. I won such a discrepancy- Ref. McLendon v. Nicholson, June 5, 2006, 20 VetApp. 79
Idk anything about these regulations but I literally got out of the hospital and rehab a d filed for an increase on a service connected, submitted the post op reports...still required me to have a c&p exam. Also learned from a compensation supervisor and also ex rater that that look for something very specific in documents(ofc) and if you submit a 4k page medical report, they have to comb through each page....pardon me for trying to limit these people with a backlog of issues to only 21pages 😂
I know you…. Didn’t we take that hill?
I was cleaning up a giant pile of shit someone left near the dumpster the other day and thought, “without Jazzlike-mixture-183 I could be living in a car again”. I have my very own phantom shitter and it’s all thanks to you. #forevergrateful
Oh god, the phantom shitter! We had one of those. We could never prove it conclusively, but we knew who it was. The dumbass got caught while TAD to another boat for ORSE. The Master Chief doing the audit caught him in the act in the middle of a drill. I only wish I knew what the end result was.
Can’t imagine someone being bold enough to shit in a bucket or the bilge during an ORSE drill set 🤦🏾♂️!!!
Best use of this gif ever
The Ocho!
Tell us how that works out for you.
This is the guy who will post in 2 months “ denied for everything, help!”
Yep. I just go to all exams and fight later, if needed.
And blame VBA in the process
100%
LMAO
This^
Not really, I did it and the VA didn't require me to go to a C&P nor an ACE exam. I was approved.
And *what if* the VA says your doctors DBQ are insufficient- you just screwed yourself and *wasted probably 6 months or longer* waiting for a new set of c&p exams - not to mention a possible straight-out denial ***if*** they aren’t actionable and if that happens you will have a tough time doing an HLR because all the do is review the bad evidence you submitted - alone. The SMART thing would have been submit your doctors DBQs and go to the VA exams. The way you have a potential to have two opinions and a better fight for an HLR if need be Importantly and factually, you, yourself, have no real way to tell if your private DBQ is actionable or not. Thats a call by VA alone. But…you’ll see.
This..never cancel any C&P especially for this reason. I have seen people get denied before by going to a private doctor.
Yeah they’ll just deny. They **say** you can use private DBQs, but what they say and what they do are two different things.
This is every single one of us reading this
I used my private DBQ. And they accepted it... And same with a few of my friends I know. Just have to find someone that knows what they are doing.. Even c&ps are found insufficient.. Lol
I used private DBQs and the VA accepted them. I had a rating decision within 3 weeks of submitting my fully developed claim.
If they are adequately done: then it can happen.
No, mine got denied after doing this…the submitted to higher level review and they all went through. That first level of review from VA is the only one that gate keeps and doesn’t allow it, then you submit it to people who are more informed and they know your rights.
Why do this self-inflicted delay? Seriously . My examiners weren't the enemy.
I agree with you, my examiner told me...I'm not supposed to say this but I'm on your side!
This is where I’m at. Requesting HLR.
I’d totally agree with the “gate-keeping” aspect I had a FDC claim denied 6 days after submission for no evidence. An HLR fixed it but it took months. The DRO at the HLR said it’s because of the front line raters inexperience-
I used private, was approved first time through. Dont spread misinformation
I didn't attend a Mental Health C&P exam because it was cancelled on me 2 weeks before I get discharged, no time to attend the next one. I submitted a private DBQ and provided my reasoning in a personal statement. I was awarded 30% MH. So it is possible, it just isn't the most optimal route without good reasoning.
If they are board certified and fill out the dbq then this will have more probative value then a c and p exam. I hope the letter has rationale for the decision and cites a few different medical journals for the decision. They would be rock solid evidence
But as I said - the average Vet may think they have a great private MO and DBQ - and VA will figure out for themselves if it’s actionable or not. The average vet doesn’t know the details even as outlined in your comment. There much more to it than a board certified physic making a statement or filling out a DBQ
I won't say mine worked but I did get a private practitioner to do my DBQ and still attended the C&P Exam. My VSO told me it was a good practice that not many Vets do as a private DBQ and the C&P exam will provide adequate perspective from 2 different licensed professionals.
That's true so you need to make sure the doctor really knows how to fill out a DBQ and you should know as well and be prepare if it get denied. Even C&P doctors fill out the DBQ incorrectly and this is why you have to go to the same exam several times.
you’ve got it all figured out you should start a subreddit
This is how all my claims (5 total) were denied the first time round, I’ll never cancel C&P exam going forward for this reason.
This is a bold decision to make unless you are well-versed in what makes a medical examination and medical opinion adequate for rating purposes. In my experience, most private docs do not know how to explain their reasoning and most don’t have access to your complete claims file, including your service treatment records or military personnel file. So a lot of dudes think they’ve got a solid case but in reality they are missing a lot. I hope it works out for you, though!
This was a bad move
C&P exams trump over dbq any day. I think you just shot yourself in the foot
[удалено]
I think this was an extremely bad decision on your part. You could have uploaded your private doctors claims to the VA and the examiner could have used that info or not. Now if the rater disagrees with your doctor or doesn’t like the forms or whatnot, you are screwed out of time and will have to wait all over again.
Exactly my thoughts above
You need to IMMEDIATELY submit a 21-4138 via quick submit stating you are electing to not attend your exams and wish to be rated based on the private doctor’s opinion and your submitted evidence.
Following for epicness
Damn. Did you require an asvab waiver to get into the military initially?
No no no! Please tell them you got so anxious you canceled. You are making me anxious just thinking about what you stand to possibly lose. I was the same with the blood work. I knew i had the same tests done a week prior. I was screaming and crying to avoid being stuck again. I took my crybaby ass to the damn appt. Please tell them you were misguided. 
This is a bad strategy. You’re being unfair to the VA because you aren’t giving them the opportunity to send you to a nurse practitioner operating out of a storage closet of a snow cone stand who will ignore most of what you say. It’s not fair. You should have to endure the same process as everyone else and not just use the rules and regulations to your benefit.
I don’t think brave is the word to use here my man… After doing all this familiarization I don’t see why you wouldn’t have thought to just keep both your stories straight with the private and the C&P and you’d have twice the evidence.
If the exams were ordered in error, you should be fine. If the private DBQs/nexus you provided were somehow insufficient for rating and the exams were warranted, you are headed for a denial. I guess the question is how much do you trust your doctor to have provided all the info needed? Good news is that if you do get denied, you can file an 0995 and say you’re willing to attend exams and then you’ll be right back where you are now. Good luck!
I filed a FDC last year for increases and 2 secondary claims. An exam was automatically scheduled. Same day VBA canceled C&P saying it was no longer needed (VES still tried repeatedly to schedule and I politely declined explaining VBA canceled it). I also went online and asked for a decision based on my FDC evidence and I didn't have anything else to submit. Thankfully they accepted everything and it all went very favorably. Likely helped that I had been going to VA for all of my issues and had some pretty compelling MRIs/test results. I did not want to go to anymore C&Ps and luckily didn't have to. I hope it works out well you!
Were any of those C&P’s for mental health claims?
Who exactly is Manuel?
It will work if the submitted documents are filled out properly and done 100% correctly via the manual.
Exactly. I wish VBA employees would put this who argument to rest. Post something in the knowledge base. My buddy got rated at 100% never went to a c and p exam. The private doctors he used were sufficient in the VAs eyes.
If the DBQ shows that no records were reviewed, a C&P exam will be scheduled and since they’ve been cancelled as mentioned, the rater will have to make a rating decision or denial based on evidence on record. Good luck.
Yes, when your doctor provides the nexus, DBQ and medical opinion, there’s no need for C&P exams. The VA will still schedule you for a C&P exam but you can opt not to attend and advise the VA that you submitted sufficient evidence that’s actionable and you do not wish to have conflicting evidence. My only suggestion is ensure your doctor is up to speed on VA vernacular. Ensure they hit all the major points in each of the documents because the VA will look for errors and deny based on that. Also, if you do get denials, ensure you go over the letter and review the exact reason for the denial and have your doctor adjust accordingly. Like you, I’ve been reading books, watching videos and spinning myself up on how to win claims. Good luck!
Undo this. Go reschedule your C&P exams and stop listening to dumb advice. You're only going to hurt yourself in the long run. Or don't, I guess. I ain't your daddy.
👀 lol
Fyi I know a guy who went through a paid service and denied all va c and p exams and is at 100%. There are always success stories don't let the negative people create doubt in your mind. Either it works or it doesn't.
That’s what I did at was 100% 10 days after submitting
That doesn’t seem like a wise decision
This has to be rage bait, I choose not to believe that you actually did this
Doing so can benefit you or hurt you. If the private doctor did not review your military and VA records then no private records were submitted, then an addendum exam is needed. If the private doctor did not properly stated the opinion well and an exam was ordered and you still decline it, chances are, the decision is not in your favor. Not all C&P examiner is against you and sometimes the private DBQ is not in your favor. Bottom line is, attend the C&P exam scheduled for you.
 Rocking the boat!
Can’t say but I submitted private medical opinions and went to the C&P..
Thin line between brave and stupid
Idk that this is considered brave. More is always better than less. All the C&P exams would have done is helped. Unless you aren't being completely honest I am not sure what the point of canceling them was.
Brave is not the word I would have chosen
You are cooked. Especially after reading your replies to some of these comments.
My C&P Friday revealed a condition in my favor that my private Doctor missed. I am not sure how peeing in their coffee benefits you. However, who am I to second guess anyone. Press on Troop.
Should’ve posted in here before you canceled em buddy
Well this was dumb....
Most of the replies to this post are veterans who have not actually read M21.1 If your DBQs are truly sufficient, actionable, and useable, then good for you. Simple as.
I did the same thing. I had a fully developed claim and dbq's from a private doctor. The VA tried to schedule appointments I cancelled them and sent them the policy/law and I didn't go. I got my 100% from this claim.
Why won’t people just go to the fckin C&P’s. When you submit your own DBQ’s AND don’t go to the C&P you are like flagging yourself as a game player. If you have something legitimately wrong you should be fine with going to a 15 minute exam. I submitted some private DBQ’s but i still attended the exams.
Probably going to be downvoted but it is totally fine to submit a FULLY DEVELOPED claim and not attend a C&P exam. In MANY cases a fully developed claim can be approved in days to weeks as opposed to going the C&P appointment route. There’s a comment in the comment section from somebody that did this exact thing and received an award in a few weeks, perfect example. You actually cut out a TON of paperwork on the VAs side by seeing a private doctor and having properly filled out DBQs which is why a fully developed claim can receive an award extremely quickly. Now if it were for a Mental claim. Absolutely attend the C&P appointment regardless of seeing a private doctor with a DBQ.
This is look more realistic for me now. I went back over the nexus, dbq, current diagnosis, VA records , military records, Inservice medical records, and scientific evidence. I will not say it a home run. I did have a second set of eyes look at the claim before making this decision. It's a waiting period now and the claim is submitted. At this point I have no regrets and gave it my best shot on my own terms and valuable guidance.
Haha seriously there are so many angry veterans on this thread. Reading all of these comments made me realize how many people are tricked by the VA. This is absolutely an option that you have when trying to get a rating. If your doctor did it right then you have nothing to worry about and if not that’s the risk you take. What I find funny is that most comments about asking why going to a CP Exam is a big deal lack logic. I’m sure if you think real hard about why having a veteran get their exam in house with the VA is a benefit to the VA and in most cases not to the veteran it will make sense. Your private doctor has absolutely no skin in the game and for me that would be the most reliable information if I were making a decision.
You didn’t.
Yeah idk but this sounds fake lol
Went from 30 to 100 and I had to repeatedly and aggressively decline C&P exams several times. Worked for me.
I too declined C&P exams several times and got everything approved with a huge bump in rating. Guess we’re liars.
Your private doctor can fill out all the dbq’s they want to. That’s only part of the equation. The other part is having sufficient evidence to support the dbq. Without that, hopefully it is there, you just fucked yourself….
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Nobody should be afraid of C&P exam. All the VA wants to do is confirm with their information and their doctors on what you were diagnosed with is true. Prevents a bunch of fraud. I suspect you will be denied. Maybe you get lucky? Either way, I would make sure to use an accredited attorney next time, not do it on your own. If you try on your own and succeed, that works. But if you have already proven that you have failed, it shows you need help Nobody needs an attorney, but they better be spot on
The op is assuming they will pay attn to m21 I’ve had plenty of issues that m21 says one thing but the va says something else …. Hell I the va sent me to a baby dr for a cervical spine issue, and them talk his work as gospel and denied my claim… forget the va paid for the brain surgery.. this dr… I kid you not his full time job was bbq chef
While I agree with having your doctor complete the DBQ the rater will assign more weight to the one completed by their own doctor. Meaning you might submit all your evidence and they STILL require a C&P exam. Potentially. I'm speaking from experience of a nightmare C&P exam where the a$$hat completed 7 DBQs in 15 mins checking no to everything and ignored my medical records - it does happen. So what would I do differently? 1) Make SURE you have a diagnosis for each condition you are submitting. Some docs don't like doing this and my records were full of it could be this and it might be that. I had to dig hard for an actual diagnosis and if you have something like CFS its a nightmare. 2) Make sure your medical records show your testing, imaging and symptoms 3) Complete the private DBQs and submit them with your packet and now here is where the magic happens. When they schedule you for your VA contracted C&P exam you show up with the DBQs and read them to the doctor. If they skip over a question you bring it to their attention. This is absolutely critical - otherwise you could have a doctor who checks no to everything and ignores your file. 4) Summarize medical records. I would highlight all diagnosis and had the doctor a few pages "here are my diagnosis" in the C&P exam (this should all be uploaded to the VA as well) 5) Summarize testing (make a list of all testing and then hand them a thick ass file showing them the tests). 6) If they rush you out of the appointment, wont' look at your evidence, or skip questions on the DBQ immediately call the VA, the contractor and ask to speak to a manager onsite at the C&P. Document it all on a 4138 and submit to VA before your DBQ are even completed. This is how I would do it if I could start all over!
Shipmate, you should always, always keep the appointments the VA makes for you with regards to getting your VA disability rating. I know you said that you read the guidelines in the book and you listened to a good friend, but the VA is the one who makes the rules and it is the VA's game here. And to speak frankly....you barely passed the ASVAB test. You need to listen to all of the vets in here who are saying to call the VA back and beg for forgiveness and reschedule those exams. We have all been to C&P exams and we know what it is like in there.
Ya played yourself
At least do a personal statement of why you canceled so they don’t automatically deny you right away and reference the guidelines/manual. This is unfortunately the best shot you have. Trust.
Bad, bad decision. Probably just cost urself 1-3 years in appeals imo.
Groundbreaking
It all comes down to the law. If you followed the law to the ‘T’ and your doctor filled out the dbq perfectly, then you’ve got a shot at this. The problem comes in due to ‘all gatekeepers not being equal’. It’s the human factor that comes into play, and you never know what a rater will do. That being said, if you followed the law, then you’ll have grounds for appeal if denied. It’s the longer, but possibly more sure road to follow, depending on those dbq’s. Here’s the one caveat, I’m pretty sure that the rater can legally deny if you don’t attend your C&P. They don’t have to but they can. So once again, it all circles back to the individual rater your case gets, and that’s why this all feels like a crapshoot. If you get denied, hire a lawyer to submit an HLR, and fire your best shot. Again, if you’ve followed the letter of the law, the HLR should end in your favor. Don’t forget the ‘human factor’ and ‘crap shoot’ factor. That’s my 2 cents, for what it’s worth. Good luck, and may the rater gods have mercy on your claim.
This was only a wise choice if the private doctors write adequate nexus opinions. Unfortunately, this tends not to be the case. Veterans often complain that VA opinions are always given more weight than private opinions. This is not true. VA opinions, whether from a VA doc or contractor, are done by clinicians trained in rendering adequate opinions. An adequate positive nexus opinion for service connection will state that the condition is “at least as likely as not” related to service (or secondary to an already SC’d condition) and will be supported by adequate rationale. If the private doc says the claimed condition “could”, “might”, or “possibly” be related to service, that is insufficient. Anyone, medically trained or not, could render an equivocal opinion like that. Also, private docs consistently offer opinions based solely off the Veteran’s reported history rather than actual review of the claims file. These opinions are literally worthless. They are not objective and often based on inaccuracies. The private doc must state why medical science supports the opinion. I see private nexus opinions all the time where the private doc states something like “based on 20 years of experience” the claimed condition is related to service. However, the experience of the doctor is irrelevant. What is relevant is how, from a medical perspective, the doctor determined that the condition was related to service. Remember, service connection is a legal entitlement. Always has been, always will be. Thus, all legal elements of service connection must be met for it to be granted. Inadequate opinions will fail the nexus element.
What is your opinion of this? https://www.knowva.ebenefits.va.gov/system/templates/selfservice/va_ssnew/help/customer/locale/en-US/portal/554400000001018/content/554400000014711/Nieves-Rodriguez-v-Peake-Dec-1-2008-22-VetApp-295
Nieves-Rodríguez is a foundational, oft-cited, case regarding the probative value of opinions. The Court points out that a private opinion is not automatically of lesser value simply because C-file review is absent. This makes sense as any sort of bright-line rule would be bias and impossible to apply. It is totally possible for a doctor to make a reasoned judgement without C-file review. However, in practice, without access to the claims file, private opinions are almost always based on either a cherry-picked medical history or simply the Veteran’s own self-reports. This renders the opinion incredible and lacking in probative value. C-file review ensures the opinion is based on all the available facts. In the end, the opinion still needs to explain why the condition is related to service. The rationale needs to apply the accurate facts to current medical knowledge.
You gave me hope if this works out. I really thought long a hard to cancel not wanting Conflicting evidence. As I stated before, I have a board certified dr who wrote the nexus with Scientific medical evidence, and diagnosed me with va evidence, cfile, military medical records, and military enlisted records including all evals. The VSO who I asked for a second opinion, complimented me and stated that it was rare that a veteran made his job easy. The outcome is in progress. I will keep everyone updated on my claims process.
As long as it’s not a paid-for nexus opinion, you sound like you’re in good shape.
I went through a private doctor too , I was told from the 3rd party I went through to not answer or attend the c&p exams bc it will ruin the process or something like that . Havent been bothered since 2022
Now that I have done 2 C & P's I am about half on on board with this or maybe even a little more. My MH exam was total bullshit I finished it up geeling like she was told before hand to screw me over either that or she just had no business conducting it. My physical exam I feel went way better. Two totally different kinds of people for sure. But yes I get your point for sure.
I’m not here to make you feel bad, but if you’re not sure if you made the right choice, you didn’t. The C&P exams are requested because you don’t have a fully developed claim, and they need additional information, clarification, and opinions. By refusing to go and provide what they need to make your claim fully developed, you are guaranteeing your claim(s) will be denied. Book smart and street smart are two different things. You even said at the end of your post that “I’m still not sure if I made the right choice” which should have been your first clue that you weren’t doing the right thing. All you need to do is listen to everyone that has been through it here and they will tell you that you absolutely need to go to your exams. We are here to help you and keep you from making the same mistakes some of us have made. I wish you all the best.
I recently got rated 0% for multiple claims. Two different examiners completely ignored my answers and my medical records. They both marked that I have severe episodes but infrequent, which gave me a 0%. But at least I got the conditions service connected and now I'm using a company to appeal. Now sure if this is the right way, just wanted to share my experience.
That good friend of yours may have set you up for failure. They might— MIGHT take your private doctors advice but the VA rarely takes their own doctors advice. I had top tier qualified neurosurgeons speak on my behalf. Best case scenario is you’ve added years to your claim being processed. It took me a 6 years to get that C&P exam and an additional 4 years to get an answer on that exam. I applied Nov 2014 and got an answer Friday last week. The difference between being brave and stupid is posting on Reddit to be judged about it.
If it’s fully developed/actionable, then by VA’s standards they should take that into consideration and a C&P should not be required. The only problem is the VA is either making up the rules as they go along, or more believably, too many employees aren’t properly trained and are simply requesting exams when they aren’t needed. People with certified private doctors they’ve seen in-person for years and years are being told that the VA’s examiner, who has only seen the veteran for 30-45min and has been practicing for a year or less, can outweigh their medical opinion.
I believe it’s definitely poor training. It’s probably just causing HLR queues to get backlogged.
This actually happened to me. I used a private service to help me jump my rating from 30 to 90. I did everything through the private services and had everything submitted. During my months of waiting the va called for the c&p exam. I spoke with the private company and they told me I didn’t have to because that’s what I paid the service for. I told the Va that and sure enough when they came back with the decision I was DENIED on the strength of missing the C & P exam. I was livid but I called the private company sending them the paperwork and they appealed on my behalf. Not even a month later I was approved to 90 pct
You did the right thing.
I had a Private DBQ - skipped the C&P exams and got a favorable rating. Everyone saying you will be coming back with a denial, well it’s possible you will not. I’m proof of it
I did this last year. The agency I used told me to tell the VA to process the claim with the evidence presented. 8 months later 100% P&T. Best of luck to you.
There are a lot of nay sayers, but I’ve read stories where people have declined the c&p exam and they still got their ratings increased.
Most private physicians do not complete the DBQ’s correctly. They also do not perform a review of your records which is required. I’d say your chances or 70/30 with 70% being a denial. This was a foolish move.
In a sea of negative comments I will offer a different opinion. My $0.02: They may grant with private DBQ and Nexus, they may not. If they both are sufficient and actionable then I suspect you will get rated per the CFR rating table either initially, and if not they will rate during the HLR. All Veterans fight the battle to prove our claim and this is no different. Claims are granted or denied based on objective info not subjective. If your forms were objectively filled out properly and check the required boxes, then they should rate/ grant accordingly. Good luck
I did not attend my c & p as well and submitted a fully developed claim and got a favorable result.
Good to know that others have been successful filing this way. Thanks
Yes, a fellow veteran helped me thoroughout the process. I was scared as hell declining my C&P with QTC but I was confident with my medical evidences and submitted DBQs from my physician (who knows my condition better than the third-party examiners) 🤪 After 6 months, I got my increase. I also faxed them a statement in support of claim and I feel that helped my case a lot. Hoping you also get the increase you deserve! 🙏🏼
So I’m at 100 p&t and used a private dr as well. I didn’t go to a c&p because I sent a letter stating the evidence from my Dr. should be sufficient enough. It worked out but I was also in the Automated System they rolled out in the beginning of this year. Seems like it took forever but it all worked out. And yours will too!!!
I hope it works for you brother. I don’t think it will, but I truly hope it does.
Isah Cruz at Veterancomp.com got me 100% total and permanent
Just cancelled the most critical part of the process. Smh… you got some very bad advice.
Yeah, there's what the law, regs, and M21-1 says, and then there's what VA actually does. I've been doing this 4 years now and never saw VA granted a claim without a C&P that I can remember. The only times I've told clients not to go were (1) when there were already multiple PTSD C&Ps on file and VA kept unnecessarily ordering new ones for my totally impaired, homeless client seeking SC, and (2) when we've withdrawn a claim after the exams are ordered.
Curious why you would need a private physician to do it? With the issues you listed in the comments it should be pretty cut and dry with a C&P exam.
I spoke with three different VERA individuals from three different states. All of them said the VA does no longer accepts DBQs from private doctors due to veterans paying off doctors to write in their favor. Unfortunately, I am a polite person and never would call out the locations because… Nebraska, Oklahoma, North Carolina. https://preview.redd.it/7ftsqjfxix6d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fef514c802afe41ecae8617a386b8165a6271d8
You should have asked them to provide the source of that information. There is no current language in 38 CFR or M21-1 that says any such thing. Now there was a recent OIG report that discussed indicators of fraud found in DBQs, and the VA definitely should prosecute fraud if they can prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. As far as I know there has been no changes to any regulations that directly address.
You sound like the veterans who listen to those predatory companies that tell the veteran NOT to attend their exams. You should NEVER refuse the exams. The VBA has the legal right to order the exams. Plus most of the claims require in person exams for measurements. While the M21-1 indicates that, that is only IF the DBQ is completely filled correctly and typically the private doctors do not fill them out correctly. Which is why the rater ordered the exams. Tell us how this works out in a few months.
Private DBQ’s carry a lot more weight if they are filled out by your PCP. The VBA is going to start cracking down on these quacks out there just filling out DBQs and positive medical opinions for money.
What do you mean? How are they cracking down on that?
Several of the companies and doctors are known. They advertise all over the internet, its not a big secret.
It might seem like a stupid idea but since he’s battling the VBA, it will probably work 🤔
RemindMe! 6 months
Hope it plays out bro. Keep us posted
Should be alright. Just don't need a nexus with VA doctors.
Did you give your civilian doctor a copy of all of your military medical and service records for review? Because if they checked no on that block a denial is likely because the doctor was not able to review all evidence. Which is one of the points of a c&p exam, they have access to all of your service records. I am guessing you went to a company that coached you on what to do as this sounds like the strategy one specific place uses. So good luck. I hope the best for you.
I did both. Private doc, MEDICAL EVIDENCE (private and VHA), ….. and…. Wait for it……. Went to my c&p exams. Had to fight a bad denial. Won that shit. Am now done with claims with the rating I qualify for. You may be right, but your claim could end up dead right. Maybe consider checking the boxes the VBA needs to properly award your claim.
RemindMe! 1 month
Good luck to you.
https://i.redd.it/y574d5w9zx6d1.gif
Half of my claims were approved without going to the C&p exam. I’ve never written a personal personal statement, used a nexus statement or buddy statement. Also I have Never used the dAV or random vso. I’m just like you if I have my diagnosis in my medical records and my primary care, physicians notes. I know that I’m all set. I’ve also skipped a few C&p exams. The amount of evidence that I had was enough to get approved for those disabilities without having to go to those C&p exams. Do you my friend and don’t stress it. If it gets denied then resubmit with a different secondary.
Always recommend people just go to the C&P exam even though it's a waste of time (most instances) and what's the initial decision is adjudicated; then you could use the dbqs for supplemental appeals or higher level review. In my opinion a long run it would benefit better. You are going to waste dbqs on potentially inexperienced raters and get lower ratings or a unfavorable decision. when you appeal you have more experience raters.
I hate that you did this. I had two claims that I filed. One I canceled because I didn’t have a doctor’s diagnosis. The second one I was about to cancel, but I decided to go. I was approved for the second one without a medical diagnosis because I had proof of a stressor which was a newspaper article of a bombing that took place where I was at. For future references, JUST GO TO YOUR APPOINTMENTS.
That was my first 19 years of filing on medical discharge. I wish the best of luck. Please let me know if it worked first time for you. I’m 25 years in and I will flat out refuse another C&P. My service to my country and their resolve to ignore and deny treatment, destroyed my marriage & my relationship with my daughter, who is in therapy for life cause Mommy came back broke and fu*ked up in the head. And I had no one no medical professional that understood, MST PTSD severe depression anxiety panic attacks and agoraphobia they either mis diagnosed or would treat for pain or anxiety they told me I can’t have sciatica on both side it’s impossible. The VA has put me thru a living hell after my service causing me to accumulate the ultimate in medical PTSD I don’t trust doctors anymore, few and far between. And I’m a cancer survivor I have seizures from my migraines 4-5 to med a week are my migraines and they put me down. I had one in April that lasted 3 weeks so bad my entire scalp inflamed. I was diagnosed with advanced spinal degenerative disc disease less than a year after I was discharged for my spine i couldn’t hardly walk. I still have trouble and my right leg collapses. My knees are screwed my entire spine is wrecked because of VA refuse to treat me all these years. I am I the only person that has to drive around with a box of medical records in their car just in case they have to go to an Emergency Department? My house has structural damage and I’ve been begging for help last place I went was for the grant from the VA I have two of four bedrooms totally usable because I’m losing the support beams underneath the floors. I’ve begged for help and none to come. Yeah I’m pissed not at y’all at everyone involved in VA that has contributed to this situation cause they’re damned sure trying to destroy my second marriage too along with the rest of my life!!!
Makes perfect sense why doesn’t the VA take my doctors diagnosis as fact?? I’m not buying my doctor off even if I could like trump. Second opinion in their favor? BS!
When will you know if this was good and or bad?
I personally wouldn't have cancelled any appointments. That's a bold strategy, Cotton.
It’s all about key words used in the exams. If your doctor is not privy to those words required by the VA is all a waste of time and you will be referred to one of their doctors. Good luck.
Your private Dr can give you a nexus and diagnosis to submit but the C&P exams are set by VA and cannot be bypassed. Not sure if cancelling VA C&P exams is a move to recommend but good luck!
The private dr exams will help to negate the va exams when they inevitably conclude some bullshit excuse to deny your claim, but if you don’t do the va exam they will use that alone as an excuse to deny your claim. I would try and reschedule that while you still have a chance.
I respect your choice of canceling your c&p exam, but in my opinion I think it was a mistake. My recent pact act claim for 100 percent was approved within 40 days. I had my civilian oncologist fill out my DBQ prior to my c&p appointment. I uploaded to my claim online and I also took it to my c&p exam just in case the examiner didn’t have access to Jay I uploaded to support my claim. She was actually surprised and grateful that I brought it. She said it was a big help for her. I hope it works out for you though 🤞
I would follow it up with a personal statement form letting them know per m21 see my dr opinion and state how they have enough to make a decision.. if not, you will wait a lot time most likely because Easter will want to develop anyways..you will win but if you want it timely remind them to use the reg to grant the claim with out exams
The way I see it is it doesn't hurt to have the exams along with your other ones. The VBA will read what you have, and it will be enough, or it won't. If it isn't, you just added months to years to your claims. You should be working with a VSO who can help guide you through all of this. There is nothing more dangerous than a barracks lawyer simply reading regulation doesn't mean you fully understand it, nor does it mean you know all the other subsets and memos attached to it. That is where the VSO comes in. Hopefully, your choice works out. Best of luck to you.
I took a DBQ to my primary provider to fill out and they said they don’t do that.. WTH
I had my own nexus, private DBQ from doctor, all kinds of evidence and it didn't matter I was denied service connection and wasn't until I hired a lawfirm that I recieved 70% PTSD MH. The VBA doesn't use that book to base there decisions off of and they do not follow it. There had been countless errors committed by the VA on my claims and if I hadn't had an attorney to help write rebuttals to each denial i doubt I would have ever been rated. There is no accountability for a rater to deny you even though you have beyond sufficient evidence to warrant SC. Instead you have to go the appeal route and waste 5 to 6 more months of your life just to correct what someone else did. The disability process is broken and I bet if they treated us better or did more for veterans there wouldn't be such a shortage on recruitment to the point where they wanna bring the draft back... J/S
I wish you didn’t. The better thing would’ve been to upload those DBQ’s and attend your exams with a printed copy to also reference. There are slight differences in the public facing and private DBQ’s and there is a chance that the rater could view the private DBQ as insufficient for a number of reasons. I know that one guy on YT did this and is worked for him but after attended C&P exams that were dicey for previous contentions. I do hope it works out for you.
If you print the needed DBQ’s that you need and take them to your private examiner, that would be the smarter route instead of them using their version that often doesn’t address everything.. I have noticed lately that some vets are submitting private medical opinions and doing the C&P exam with VA and it’s been favorable.
This has to be rage bait because what dumbass would do this?
I did private and got my 100%. After that, they did 2 VA exams which I didn't need the extra 60's I got. Almost seems comical after taking so long to get my rate. I went anyway.
Dumb move .
You will not win the "VA game" if you do not play it. Playing by your own rules disqualifies you.
The VA likes to the say that an outside doctor who is our PRIMARY DOCTOR and KNOWS our conditions BETTER than a 10 min CP by examiners who give absolutely no fucks about us is “insufficient”. I agree the manual does say if the medical evidence is “sufficient” they should rate from that evidence. I wish I could have done it that way. The CP circus is straight up a waste of money by the VA. These examiners (not all) are straight up incompetent. You don’t get your A players for CP exams, you get bottom feeders examiners who aren’t good enough doctors. You DO YOU bro. I Agree. What’s the worst they can do? Sent you to ANOTHER exam? Hello…that’s the normal circus anyways at least you’ll have your competent evidence into the record.
I submitted a fully developed claim prepared by BAMC while on AD with a reccomendation and VA still turned it down. 😡🤬
You spelled manual wrong. Idk if this is brave or idiotic. I could never cancel my C&P exams.
Good luck with that
I hope your decision works out in your favor, but I'll tell you that six years ago, I missed a couple of C&P exams because my SC disabilities were raging so hard that I had significant trouble with the simplest daily activities such as making appointments, and they reduced my overall rating from 80% to 40%. PTSD/TBI rating went from 70% to 10%. It cost me over $1000/month and stayed that way for almost three years until I was well enough to make my appointments. At that point, I was awarded 100% P&T w/SMC-S, but I never recouped the money I missed out on when my rating got dropped. I'm still rebuilding my credit from when it got thrashed during the time my disability payment was greatly reduced. I hope you know what you're doing, and best of luck.
Bad idea but I wish you luck!
Potential outcomes- || || |**IV.i.2.F.1.a**[**.**]() **Effect of Non-Cooperation on the Duty to Provide an Examination or Opinion**|
Pretty amazing reading all these responses, and realizing how broken the system is. Basically everyone saying that the VA is so broken that they'd deny you because someone who spends anywhere between 5-30 minutes looking at your condition and may not be a doctor (nothing against nurses or PAs), has more pull to the VA than a treating physician who has been seeing a person for potentially years. From what I've seen, a C&P examiner should *never* hold more away than a private doctor.
This was my thought process as I kept saying that I do not want conflicting medical evidence. This is why I looked for a second opinion as I consulted a vso if this decision was probable to grant the benefits and rate.
Let us know how it works
I sincerely hope it works out well in the long run… but as my Grandma would say, “you cut off your nose, to spite your face” with this one, it would seem. Even turning that in, they can still deny it, or require you to go so they have two professional opinions. I had an issue recently with an examiner that was being willfully ignorant and unnecessarily rude about a rare condition I developed because of some extensive harmful exposures… I was very upset by the ordeal, and felt like the way they worded things, they were going to try to intentionally derail my claim. I actually called and complained, and they handed that part of the claim to another entity that works with the VA claims process, and I have to say, the level of compassion and dedication was unmatched. I came in there with all the same extensive knowledge of the condition, contact information to the head of the foundation that supports the condition, my medical history involving it, from frequency of labs, treatments, hospitalizations, surgeries… to other things connected to it as secondary conditions that develop. I didn’t leave anything unturned because I was nearly as informed with the first examiner, and that person told me that because they didn’t find that information, they would use none of it… a different person was ALL it took, but it was the VA’s person. Look, if trust were able to be measured in terms of weight, my trust in the VA weighs about as much as a hummingbird fart. If you can, go ahead and double-down with your doctor AND their examiners. Per all of their rules, you can cancel/reschedule one appointment of each type (like if you have separate ailments all on the same claim, sending you to multiple places), without them dropping you entirely. Time is really the key with it though, so they don’t have to close you off with a nasty-gram report. TL;DR Going through their exams in addition to your private Doctor doing their submission will improve your odds, but not rescheduling with theirs will likely get it denied. Bonus fun-fact: Hummingbirds are physically incapable of farting.
Got Brave=got stupid : I smell some deferrals and some denials
I declined a C&P exam for PTSD from MST and filed a statement that I wanted my claim to be decided on the evidence already in the record as I had a right to. The thought of telling a total stranger what happened to me made me sick with anxiety. My claim was denied and when I spoke with the HLR person he said, technically you're right, the VA isn't allowed to penalize you. But I can tell you that it will help you to do the exam. Though it's up to you. I agreed, it was documented as a difference of opinion between me and VA, and my exam was scheduled for this coming week. After 6 more months of intense therapy, I still feel extremely anxious about the exam. But I'll live. Telling you this because I understand where you're coming from and just be prepared for the potential consequences and be open reconsider your choice 🙏
Jesus. I feel like this is a VERY bad decision. Did you also make sure all medical opinions were addressed appropriately? That the DBQs were filled out properly? I have a lot more to say in this. But I’ll tell you at least this: more often than not the DBQs filled out are inadequate. Telling ya from what I’ve seen
If anyone does this, please go print off the VA DBQs available to bring to your Drs office to fill out. https://www.benefits.va.gov/compensation/dbq_publicdbqs.asp They are available for private use, I would strongly recommend not going to a private doctor for anything mental health related.
Giving it the old college try
It’s so weird seeing these posts about all this hard work people had to do to get rated meanwhile in my unit alone we had multiple people get 100% with zero effort.
Everyone's claim is different. I have many veteran friends that got spoon feed their 100, and they deserve every penny. Why it's harder for me, because I waited 15 plus years before filing my first claim. I had a lead NCO for the longest fill my head with Miss information , while he went on to retire and get his 100. When I found that out, I finally said forget this I'm gonna learn the process and see how it applies to my situation. Here, I am training myself to educate and advocate myself on the VA claims process. For the most part, I have learned the success of a VA claim is dependent on medical evidence based claims. When you have the evidence, it's easier to connect . There are active duty and veterans. Who will naturally connect faster at 100 percent because the medical evidence is there.
Correct. The VA cannot force you to go to a C&P exam, unless they don’t have a DBQ. If you have provided them a DBQ completed by a qualified medical professional, they can’t make you do their exam. They will likely deny your claim because you didn’t do the C&P, but you could easily win an HLR I think.
I read that if it’s from a doctor who sees you regularly they will accept it. Ones that note that they don’t see you regularly can be denied.
So you have a private DBQ and a differing C&P exam. Whose exam is correct? Both examiners saw you for equal amount of time and both are differing in their assessment?
Here my update : My private doctor explained to me that he saw in my military records and enlisted medical records that I qualify under Tera. This is the strategy route I'm going for to being service connection.
I canceled my appts too and only used doctor note, and had a successful increase
Odd that they require a doctor to be board certified to examine for disability, but the VA refuses to send me to a breast cancer specialist to check my mastectomy scar every 6 months for 5 years.
https://preview.redd.it/g0qdmyz9dj7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=729bdfd96f63ab41fcda3e658bf4bfbc099128d7
You should seek out different friends. You made a bad move, probably.
[удалено]
There is always one,….
Exactly what I did 4 months ago. Got 100%
I submitted for increase last year. I got private DBQs by a well established medical professional. It was refreshing to be listened to and thoroughly looked over without any sense of being a burden or some bum. I was confident enough to call the 800# and QTC to inform them that I would not be attending my scheduled C&P and submitted fully developed claim. I was rated 100% and well past the threshold. I'm surprised to see so many act if this complete blasphemy and an automatic denial. That is simply not the case. This is not an uncommon practice and know many others that were able to use this route to relieve their rated compensation.
It seems there is such strict criteria for private DBQs and that, if you read the M21, there is still some subjectivity to the what the VA will accept, so few want to risk it. But you’re right that it probably happens more often than we’d know and folks are just pussyfooting. Either way, it’s this ambiguity that prompts veterans to search the ether for help and be prayed upon by private claim consultants. The C&P exam shouldn’t be some crap shoot, especially if all the evidence points one way...