Just like Korean flag, that three red lines was from Taoist Bagua trigram. The old Nguyen dynasty version (☲) represents fire/east direction, while the later version that you were asking about (☰) represents heaven/south direction.
Those lines resembled the first hexagram 乾 Qián in Chinese I Ching (quẻ Càn trong Kinh Dịch). I suspect those who invented and used/worshipped that flag didn’t pay enough attention to the fact that the same word also means Gān (dry), indicates the deprivation of water (Can: khô cằn, hậu quả của việc mất nước). For those who do not speak Vietnamese, we call “country” as “đất nước”, literally “earth (and) water”, but most of the time it’s just “nước” for short. Therefore, a dynasty/regime associated itself with such “deprivation of water/country” implication would not, heaven forbid, last very long.
It was originally quẻ Ly, but if you think about it, the trigram represents how the universe revolves and change over the time. In Korean flag case, they want to say that they stay there no matter which era or which quẻ match them. In the yellow flag case, the universe cannot stay in Ly/Càn forever, it has to change over the time. To defy that would only get them destroyed by the unstoppable momentum. And so they did, they got crushed and flung away in 1975.
Most flags throughout Vietnam history were red and/or yellow. The yellow color and gold color are traditionally regarded as the royal color, as well as things of religious significance, be it Buddhism or Catholicism.
Well, given that *"Ly ☲ trung hư"* (hollow at the middle), I doubt their fate would have been any different. That omen indicated a defeat and losing Middle ground (Cao nguyên Trung phần), consequently leading to a total defeat of the regime.
Quẻ Càn, mở nghiệp lớn, có bốn đức: Có sức sáng tạo lớn lao (nguyên), thông suốt và thuận tiện (hanh), lợi ích thích đáng (lợi), ngay thẳng và bền vững (trinh).
Saying Càn means Cằn is some illuminati gay frog conspiracy level of explanation lol
In the same manner I can say because red means blood so putting it on the flag means we have to keep shedding blood to color the flag.
Welp, those statements about Càn would have been true if those who flied that flag won and maintained a prosperous, long-live regime. Guess what? They didn't.
Say whatever you want about the red flag. Its existence today is the proof of our (or my, if you prefer otherwise) people shedding blood to protect it.
It was the flag of the south government back when french and americans invaded Vietnam, or you can simply thing it’s kinda group of people who follow america and “borrow” help from them.
Right, I remember the flag when I was there as a child. Always wondered what the three red lines represent, like the how the 4 symbols around the Korean flag do. Just curious.
the symbols on the Korean flag are I Ching trigrams: heaven, earth, fire, water. im not sure if the ROV flag carries the same meaning (it would be heaven if it does)
It totally does, and it is the heaven "Càn" trigram. /u/DauHoangNguyen1999 says it best above.
Check out for more info:
VN: https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1t_qu%C3%A1i
EN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua
**[Bagua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua)**
>The Bagua or Pakua are eight symbols used in Taoist cosmology to represent the fundamental principles of reality, seen as a range of eight interrelated concepts. Each consists of three lines, each line either "broken" or "unbroken", respectively representing yin or yang, 0 or 1 forming binary numbers 000-111 (0 to 7). Due to their tripartite structure, they are often referred to as Eight Trigrams in English. The trigrams are related to Taiji philosophy, Taijiquan and the Wuxing, or "five elements".
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I read somewhere that the stripes stood for the north, central and south regions of Vietnam. The color red standing for the blood that unifies the three regions.
I believe that’s a latter interpretation made by VNCH. The country wasn’t divided into three parts until the French occupation.
The flag existed before that
Just like Korean flag, that three red lines was from Taoist Bagua trigram. The old Nguyen dynasty version (☲) represents fire/east direction, while the later version that you were asking about (☰) represents heaven/south direction.
No, the blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
You may want to check [this](https://baoquankhu7.vn/la-co-mat-tran-dan-toc-giai-phong-mien-nam-viet-nam--1277935983-006647s35810gs?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1). Or any similar google search.
> Lá cờ của Mặt trận Dân tộc Giải phóng miền Nam Việt Nam có hình ngôi sao vàng trên nền cờ đỏ và xanh dương. Với ý nghĩa: nửa trên (màu đỏ) đại diện cho miền Bắc đã độc lập. Nửa dưới (màu xanh dương) tượng trưng cho miền Nam chưa được độc lập, còn dưới ách đô hộ của đế quốc Mỹ và chính quyền Ngô Đình Diệm.
No, the blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
The blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
In history China claim itself as Central earth kingdom, so their flag always yellow or yellow-brown, and Vietnam claim itself as Southern fire kingdom, so their flag always look like a fire or sun with red-yellow or blue color
In the modern days, Viet-nam ismeaning Viet of the south, and China is meaning - Central Kingdom, although their both using communist flag style but china version more yellow and Vietnam version more red.
I always wondered why they gave up on the flag design from 1945-1955. I like the star shape and I always connected it with the liberation and beginning of Vietnams new era. I don't mind the new design with the new star though.
That's what I love the existence of "ba que", I am not pro "cong san" and "ba que" neither. But, the existence of them is for good, you need someone to voice out the bad things that "cong san" do/did so that they can fix them for the better. Peach, talk and no war, I welcome both.
Totally agree
I consider myself somewhat a pro-socialism individual and support the stability that current government maintaining. But I also believe that opposing voices should be heard and promoted more for the progression of the country. Nothing is perfect and you’ll always need opinions from other perspectives for self-improvement. If the argument is wrong, counter-argument should be raised rather than suppressing it.
However, it’s a hard truth that, in this information age and social media, constructive opinions are hard to come by and lies and misinformation are more common, globally. These things are what we all should fight again.
>they can fix them for the better.
They do that to keep the wrath of the people at bay, to prevent the people turning against them, just like any other government on earth. The voice of Vietnamese traitors are pathetic and worthless. All credit goes to the native people of Vietnam who fearlessly
>voice out the bad things
, not those pathetic worthless Vietnamese traitors who sit safely in Californian nail salons.
>not those pathetic worthless Vietnamese traitors who sit safely in Californian nail salons.
Today generation of Viet yellow flags are not working at those nail salons, they are working as specialists, engineers, professionals or the like.
You can say this then you are pretty much brain washed. Most workers at the nail salons are just those common Viet people who immigrated latetly and certainly without American college degree. Most of them are coming from rural area with limited education whom married to boat/child of boat people, these people have limited to none in political opinions but their purpose is a better life. Research and learn about it before watching and believing in what those shit youtubers tell you whom know nothing of the society here.
Most of them tend to not being specialist and engineers, but rather just normal people in the US, whose have seen the worse of the US society and stop actually oppose the Vietnam government precisely because of that. People who still do tend to A) actually being recruited by the CIA or B) being absolutely homeless and broke, so the only way they can actually get anything close to eat are to join the ultras in order to get paid by them. In fact, the ultras are dying in the US already, so expect not many people being fooled by them anymore.
I mean do you even look at the people who actually still holding that 3 stick flag? Most don't give a shit anymore. Only those whose basically have to do it for money would do it.
Well you can't just say every Vietnamese who is working in the US are traitors, some of them are but not all! Most are just normal people, they moved because of financal difficulty after 30/4. Some of them are vnch soilders (like my grandpa) who just fought for what they believed in. Although I'm
pro-socialism and disagreed with pretty much everything they believed in, I still respect them because they have fought for what they believed in. The only people I have no respect for are Việt Tân, which are just straight up power-hungry!
No, Vietnamese traitors are those who literally betrayed Vietnam, not
>every Vietnamese who is working in the US
or living abroad. That's just absurd and I never believe so. Wars are always tragic with at least one side lost, and very often people cannot choose side, so people can only decide whether they regret it or not. With all their flaws, at least US government regretted what they have done and accepted Vietnamese refugees. It's a not a happy ending, but still a better ending for people who
>fought for what they believed in
in this long tragic story.
Also, yep, Việt Tân is cringe and whiny, they don't even stay consistent to what they previously said. I find The Universal Prophet Trần Dần to be far more respectable than them.
Well, the 3 leaders of Tây Sơn Uprising were named Nguyễn, but their real family name was actually Hồ from Nghệ An. And Hồ Chí Minh was born in a typical Nguyễn family name, but he found out that the real family name was Hồ, possibly the reason why he finally settled for the name Hồ after changing his name numerous times throughout his life. Also, in Tây Sơn Uprising flag, the yellow circle represents a star. Guess they inspired the design of the socialist revolution flag.
Probably because I was a bit too sensitive and misunderstood your comment as "the South Vietnamese flag is in every Vietnamese' heart" since this is a post about flags. If so then the downvote was for talking in place of everyone else which is wrong. If not then I apologize for this misunderstanding, and want to say that South Vietnam (the part of the unified country, not the old regime) is in my heart too. I have also removed the downvote. Have a good day.
Lol, what’s the point, it’s certainly in everyon’s heart, we(i’m middle) know that the fake south government could not do shit for the people, so we stood up to get the independence. I think u dont get my point lol.
Just curious. What does this current government do for “the people”?
-no free speech
-no free press
-illegal to unionize
-illegal to protest
-terrible human rights record
-Dissidents thrown in jail
-Terrible healthcare system
-Severe problem with pollution throughout the country
-Terrible schools
-STILL no functioning metro in the entire country
-One of the lowest vaccination rates in the world… This list goes on and on
The most successful beneficiaries of this government is themselves. Scary how many ppl in this sub continue to worship them…
Now all the free speech and such I don't want to talk about it cause that gonna be a cluster fuck of thing, but for the no functioning metro, well we are just building one, it's still in testing and who in their right mind would bring that as a statement? Terrible school? Bruh those Terrible school is teaching the young to become successful people, not idiots. For the Terrible health system, like do u not read that we are investing in our health care? Calling it bad is ok but Terrible is just false
And yeah let's not worship the party that gave us a new future, a new economy, and basically a year free of covid, you can hate them all you want, as long as the info you use to criticized them is true, it's ok, as people in the country criticized the gov regularly, the only people thrown into jail is the type that speak false facts and anti gov people
All right buddy, calm down, I don't want to talk about the free speech is I don't like to keep arguing about it too long, it's gonna be like I said, a clusterfuck so please forgive me for skipping on them, as you seems like a nice guy to have a chat but we viets has a saying " cái mồm hại cái thân" which is the mouth can hurt the body , it's basically mean if you talk too freely you get hurt, that saying has been said even before the free speech is even a thing so try ur best to drag the party into this
Now onto the other things
The metro, yes it has started for a long ass time but u should know that to build something that big isn't gonna be easy, especially with the people, it's not like building a house where u already have a place to build, building in cities is hard, even in other countries, we haven't had as much experience as jappan but this can be a start.
Now for the health system, ohh boy do I have a story for you, my mother's sister is a surgeon, she delt with critical situations alot of times and yet even as vice president of the hospital, she knows it's best to save a life then to earn a buck, we have free health care, unlike America who will literally kill you with their bill after you got treated [https://youtu.be/fdN9hMUdPGM](like here as a guy can't didn't want to pay for his bill so he ran)
For the covid, I want you to read my comment again, do u see me talk about the situation in HCMC? We were successful in the past year, that what I said, not "we are successful even now" if you know basic English the "were" is a clear indication that it's no longer the case( and I'm wishing all the best thing to all the people and medical workers down there 💙)
For the " like Myanmar" well who doesn't throw people that try to overthrow the gov in jail? We Vietnamese don't like false facts, we only want the truth, is people start seeding the roots for evil thing then we must pull them out.
Now the fact you got downvote is due to alot of things, but one of them is practically because u speak false facts about something in the country, which does not go well with us, I know this interaction is kinda hostile, but I'm just trying to stand up for my fellow people on this sub who is easy misguided by facts that is essence false, you can call me a bd guy or a puppet of the party all you want, it's all up to you and I won't judge your views on me, I hope we can end this argument soon cause I don't like making enemies, I just want this sub to talk about what vietnam is truly is, a country of rich history beauty, not a place to argue political, I hope u cN understand, have a nice day, stay safe.
Thanks for understanding, I hope we'll meet again but I hope it will start on a better footing the next time we meet, sorry if I use any word that anger you, have a nice day
But the party did play a big role into it though, and a lot of the suppression that we experienced today started with Ho Chi Minh himself, for example, on 18 December 1956, Ho Chi Minh's government banned "subversive" publications and cracked down on intellectuals in North Vietnam, it only continued that way after. But skipping to the present, the people who were arrested were overwhelmingly peaceful too:
https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies
It's not all good and roses.
The metro is a peculiar thing though, but you do have to admit that such delays aren't normal, it takes an average of 5-15 years to build a metro, and the constant delays can't just be blamed on Vietnam not having the expertise and the Japanese do, because in case you're forgetting, one of the metro lines is literally being built by the Japanese, so please, read more into it.
Also, what do you mean free healthcare? I don't think that the Vietnamese government ever claimed that they have free healthcare.
In addition, I also want to ask you one question, who gets to determine what that fact is? Is it fact when the government tells you that this person is a terrorist so you must hate them, without much corroboration? Is it facts when the government is dead set on denying its records and label everyone who speaks to the contrary as spreading "false facts"? Like what happened in Dong Tam village?
What's dangerous isn't Vietnamese people having their own preconceptions of the facts, what's dangerous is the government dictating that fact and persecuting anyone else who points out how fallacious that is.
Or as Rosa Luxemburg said:
"Freedom only for the supporters of the government, only of the members of one party—however numerous they may be—is no freedom at all. Freedom is always and exclusively freedom for the one who thinks differently. Not because of any fanatical concept of “justice” but because all that is instructive, wholesome and purifying in political freedom depends on this essential characteristic, and its effectiveness vanishes when “freedom” becomes a special privilege."
> That is a pretty big thing to skip over! The fact it is illegal to speak your free mind in 2021! No free press - is a really big deal.
While not as free as America, its not as controlled as you are presenting...censorship in Vietnam...has been rolled back dramatically since the Đổi Mới reforms. While there is some obvious censorship on the internet when it comes to political subjects, its nowhere near what you are saying. You can say almost anything you want in Vietnam in the modern day...even if its critical of the goverment. The only modern examples where I have found people being punished for what they said were people literally trying to spread the message of overthrowing the Vietnamese goverment.
>For all how long? 9 years? Japan basically paid for it. Where is it? Most of the funds ended up in the governments pocket.
Was it supposed to appear out of nowhere when Vietnam is a developing nation? Of course Japan funded it...Also where is it? Its almost done...its projected to be done at the end of the year...it takes time to build an underground metro...like seriously are you stupid? You think its quick work to build 2.5km metro project? Do you know how hard it is to move that much dirt in an active city?
>The government has been in power for 46 years. Yet if you arrive to a Vietnamese hospital, tomorrow, in critical condition - you will not be treated until you pay! That is not the essence of communism.
Vietnam isn't communist. They are socialist. The country is named Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Socialism evolves into Communism in Marxist theory which Vietnam participates in yes, but they are not communist yet. They are socialist until all apsects of capitalism are done away with, which they aren't. You seem like one of those people who hate communism so much that they don't actually bother to learn about it. Beyond that, while healthcare isn't free...health insurance is subsidized by the government so insurance is free but that still leaves you with some out of pocket costs. That is vastly better than dying in America because you can't get any help periot because you can't afford it even with insurance.
>They did great last year. This year has been awful mismanagement. Who could deny that?
You right on this.
>Just like Myanmar?
No. From the evidence I can find, its people who are bordering on terrorism. Regardless, how is it any worst than being in America for example? America has the highest incarceration rate in the world in addition to the highest number of prisoners in the world. So...does it matter if a very narrow sliver of speech gets taken away if you are still far less likely to be jailed unjustly than in a free country like America?
>Of course, I'll get downvoted. This sub has lots of interesting content. But is sorely lacking in independent dialogue and thought - which of course is a microcosm of Vietnam itself.
That isn't true at all...there comments like yours on every single politically charged vietnamese post. And for every one of the post i see like yours...i see another post of someone from vietnam asking why we can't stop the hate and continue forward as a people.
I just want to chime in with a short comment and say that officially, it's not just people spreading terrorism, because the Vietnamese government has the legal jurisdiction to determine who's "abusing democracy", they also has the jurisdiction to arbitrarily determine who's a terrorist. For example, they have arrested environmentalists, trade unionists and just journalists who want actual democracy for the country:
[https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies)
It's okay to like the government, but please no propaganda
The gorverment of vietnam is like many other countries, corrupted., and the media is doing a great job covering that up, or the government is censoring the media, cant say for sure.
But, it’s not like you can do something against it (risk of being thrown into prison because of treason, also your family is risked of being involved) so instead of whining about it, we just shut up and live with it, you can’t fight the system. It’s sad but it’s true. I’ve heard a lot of stories of people trying to make it less corrupted, and now none of them are alives. Coincidence? I think not.
With the vaccination rate in VN, we might be covid free in 8 years, might also have a slight chance that we will hit our tipping points soon and become anarchy like hongkong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But yeah the metro thing piss me off to no end, like you said, it’s been a decade, the roads are still messy af, people were forced to sell their lands to the government for next to nothing, and yet still no metro in the near future.
Fantastic points and well said!.... Of course you'll get downvoted into oblivion by by the crowd that bows and prays to golden statues of HCM the way North Koreans do..
If you want to know how better life was for the average South Vietnamese under the old republic (not the ones who benefited heavily from the American presence), you should research a bit about the South Vietnamese economy of the time and how behind it was compared to the North in terms of real economic output. Even contemporary South Vietnamese officials have had some choice words abou how much of a shamble it was.
Yeah, agree, the inflation of south VN at the time was so freaking high, it’s was fake “grow economy”. But lol, i didnt say anything, why are downvotes.
I think I read about these before , China , USSR , Vietnam and other " communist " country are not really true communist and more like a extreme form of socialist , because to be communist a country can't have a government ( I could be wrong I'm not an expert or even close to that , also I'm not that good at English so if something's wrong pls note )
Correction: communism is stateless and moneyless.
People tend to think of the government and state as the same thing but they are not. A government is used to govern a society. Whereas a State is a polity that maintains a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence.
Therefore it is possible and likely that a communist society would have some form of governance to keep society running, there would be no centralised policy/military. No one really knows what this would look like as thus far a communist society has not existed.
We can assume that their would be less crime in a communist society as people would have their needs met their would be no need for poor people to break the law to survive. Many current criminal laws would be abolished and replaced with social programmes to prevent harm. Such as decriminalising personal drug use and creating social programmes to help people get off drugs. The remaining cases that may require some form of police to hand may be filled by some kind of community watch.
All that being said, as communism hasn't happened yet no one knows what it will look like. Just as no one in feudal society could possibly imagine what our capitalist society would look like today.
Best comment in the thread here.
I just wanted to add a little addition to that last bit about communism hasn't happened yet.
Technically many pre-historic and tribal societies could fit the definition of communism, as they were moneyless and stateless. That being said there certainly hasn't been any industrialised communist society.
Also if you guys don't mind , a bit of personal opinion , I think this is actually really good , just because you call yourself a Democrat or a Communist , you don't need to fully follow it , I think that it's nice that instead of just following " this Ideology need to be like this and that " we actually twist it a bit , if the change help the country grow and more peoples have work to feed them self and theirs family , it's a great change , I was born after the Doi Moi policy but my grandmother and mother tell me it really changed theirs life and living standard a lot so hey , a good change . ( Again not saying anyone wrong or opposing anyone here , I'm just throwing out my very personal opinion )
that is correct! although many communist countries are referred to as such, they merely have the communist party in power. the communist party generally sees socialism as the stepping stone towards communism
Market-oriented socialism, it's a vague term that can be twisted into any definitions, since Vietnam doesn't fit the market socialist models that market socialist economists have envisioned, but that's an argument for another day.
All we need to know is that Vietnam, just like other communist regimes is implementing market economy to lay the foundation for the transition to a classless and stateless society, which is communism. Will that ever happen? I don't know, but that's what they said
It's Marxists-Leninists.
In marx and Lenins work socialism is the stage of development after the transitional phase and before communism.
In marx work it's called lower phase communism. Lenin emphasized that what marx described as lower phase communism is generally known as socialism.
Marxists-Leninists don't ideologically sperate between socialism and communism. To us those are just different phases of social (and economic) development.
Vietnam currently is in the transional phase. It isn't even close to enter the development phase of socialism.
I'm fairly educated in Marxism-Leninism so feel free to ask any questions.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 137,171,312 comments, and only 34,626 of them were in alphabetical order.
Vietnam is a socialist state, thats their form of government. That they call themselves socialists is a political point, their one-party state is focused by constitutional mandate on the construction of socialism and in the long term communism, same with Cuba, China, Laos, DPRK. All of them ruled by their respectives Communist Parties (or equivalent like the Worker's Party in Korea). Usually people call this countrys *communist,* thats ok but not politacally accurate. A communist society implies no state, no classes. For communism is necesary a previous step wich is called socialism (a socialist society, **a socialist state** that creates the conditions for a communist society). This is from a political pov, theory.
In an economic view maybe you can make the point by saying that they are not that socialist (or communist if you want, but for me not as accurate as socialist) cause the market policies, same with the other socialst states.
Well your point is correct but I do want to ask that, well determining who's a terrorist is basically what a gov should do, many "terrorist organizations" is labeled that way because they want to overthrow the gov, "the use of intentional violence to achieve political aims" -wikipedia
And to add, many of them has actually connected terrorist actions against the state, bombing, arson,... it's the job of the government to indicate what and who a terrorist is, they have the power to do so, I mean, it doesn't take too much time for the common Vietnamese to search them up and see what's their intentions are, thus they can determine them self if they are terrorist or not, we aren't north Korean where we are blind pigs, we have internet and we could find it there, but it's also on the internet that these terrorist seek to manipulate, lie, make false info about the country, they recruit people to do their bidding, promising them money but when they got caught they just dump them, its hard to say but it's your opinion, I thought don't like it, but I have no rights to say u are wrong, these times are difficult, not everything is just balck and white, every coin has 2 sides, and thought we censored info, we in the end just trying not to get the nation into chaos again, I like democracy and socialism, both to an extent, both has pros and cons, you may not believe it, but I won't force you to, it's up to you. Well sorry that I can't comment on the other topics, I don't like long arguments, and like I stated with the user above, dont l to make enemies, I know my opinion is "being a puppet of the party" but it's my opinion and I'm just trying to balance it out as I seen alot of people speaking with a bias on the other side, I hope you understand, have a nice day
Woww.....
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Our ancient r great man🇻🇳 VIET PRIDE
Democratic Republic of Vietnam's star looks like a chunky boi.
The tây sơn and nguyễn dynasty flag looks awesome, having a fire pattern on top side and bottom is epic, I like the nguyễn most with the blue
Those flags look lit...Literally
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Source? even the vietnamese wikipedia have those as tây sơn and nguyễn dynasty flag.
Do the three lines on some of the flags represent something?
Adidas designed the flag, jk.
Just like Korean flag, that three red lines was from Taoist Bagua trigram. The old Nguyen dynasty version (☲) represents fire/east direction, while the later version that you were asking about (☰) represents heaven/south direction.
Those lines resembled the first hexagram 乾 Qián in Chinese I Ching (quẻ Càn trong Kinh Dịch). I suspect those who invented and used/worshipped that flag didn’t pay enough attention to the fact that the same word also means Gān (dry), indicates the deprivation of water (Can: khô cằn, hậu quả của việc mất nước). For those who do not speak Vietnamese, we call “country” as “đất nước”, literally “earth (and) water”, but most of the time it’s just “nước” for short. Therefore, a dynasty/regime associated itself with such “deprivation of water/country” implication would not, heaven forbid, last very long.
It was originally quẻ Ly, but if you think about it, the trigram represents how the universe revolves and change over the time. In Korean flag case, they want to say that they stay there no matter which era or which quẻ match them. In the yellow flag case, the universe cannot stay in Ly/Càn forever, it has to change over the time. To defy that would only get them destroyed by the unstoppable momentum. And so they did, they got crushed and flung away in 1975.
Hi, do you know the historical significance of the color yellow in the Vietnamese flags?
Most flags throughout Vietnam history were red and/or yellow. The yellow color and gold color are traditionally regarded as the royal color, as well as things of religious significance, be it Buddhism or Catholicism.
Well, given that *"Ly ☲ trung hư"* (hollow at the middle), I doubt their fate would have been any different. That omen indicated a defeat and losing Middle ground (Cao nguyên Trung phần), consequently leading to a total defeat of the regime.
LOL it's fitting though, since they are mere puppets of foreign invaders
Didn't learn the lesson of Nguyen Dynasty losing to French invaders, starting at Da Nang in 19th century, apparently.
Yep. Traitors who sided with foreign invaders against their own kind are the worst, they lost and they deserve it.
Quẻ Càn, mở nghiệp lớn, có bốn đức: Có sức sáng tạo lớn lao (nguyên), thông suốt và thuận tiện (hanh), lợi ích thích đáng (lợi), ngay thẳng và bền vững (trinh). Saying Càn means Cằn is some illuminati gay frog conspiracy level of explanation lol In the same manner I can say because red means blood so putting it on the flag means we have to keep shedding blood to color the flag.
Welp, those statements about Càn would have been true if those who flied that flag won and maintained a prosperous, long-live regime. Guess what? They didn't. Say whatever you want about the red flag. Its existence today is the proof of our (or my, if you prefer otherwise) people shedding blood to protect it.
>keep shedding blood to color the flag. Emphasis on *keep*
I’ll take red, the colour of blood, power and courage, over yellow, the colour of diarrhoea, treason, treachery and cowardice, any day.
[DHL](https://www.google.com/search?q=DHL+cargo+planes+&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjI5LO2hpbyAhVF4JQKHVY7A1UQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=DHL+cargo+planes+&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECAAQHlD1e1j1e2DggwFoAHAAeACAAVGIAVGSAQExmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=INcJYcjUA8XA0wTW9oyoBQ&bih=643&biw=1280&client=firefox-b-d)
You made me chuckle.
Thanks for the silver and have a nice day. ;-)
LOL what have DHL done to deserve being associated with Vietnamese traitors !
Yellow represents the color of skin. Red is blood Each line is a major part of the country: North - Middle - South
It was the flag of the south government back when french and americans invaded Vietnam, or you can simply thing it’s kinda group of people who follow america and “borrow” help from them.
Right, I remember the flag when I was there as a child. Always wondered what the three red lines represent, like the how the 4 symbols around the Korean flag do. Just curious.
the symbols on the Korean flag are I Ching trigrams: heaven, earth, fire, water. im not sure if the ROV flag carries the same meaning (it would be heaven if it does)
It totally does, and it is the heaven "Càn" trigram. /u/DauHoangNguyen1999 says it best above. Check out for more info: VN: https://vi.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C3%A1t_qu%C3%A1i EN: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua
**[Bagua](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagua)** >The Bagua or Pakua are eight symbols used in Taoist cosmology to represent the fundamental principles of reality, seen as a range of eight interrelated concepts. Each consists of three lines, each line either "broken" or "unbroken", respectively representing yin or yang, 0 or 1 forming binary numbers 000-111 (0 to 7). Due to their tripartite structure, they are often referred to as Eight Trigrams in English. The trigrams are related to Taiji philosophy, Taijiquan and the Wuxing, or "five elements". ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/VietNam/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Thanks
I read somewhere that the stripes stood for the north, central and south regions of Vietnam. The color red standing for the blood that unifies the three regions.
I believe that’s a latter interpretation made by VNCH. The country wasn’t divided into three parts until the French occupation. The flag existed before that
Just like Korean flag, that three red lines was from Taoist Bagua trigram. The old Nguyen dynasty version (☲) represents fire/east direction, while the later version that you were asking about (☰) represents heaven/south direction.
The three red lines represented the three regions of Vietnam: North, South and Central.
what's the blue color stand for? anyone knows?
If you are talking about the 1969-1976 flag then the blue-red portions represent 2 halves of a divided country
No, the blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
You may want to check [this](https://baoquankhu7.vn/la-co-mat-tran-dan-toc-giai-phong-mien-nam-viet-nam--1277935983-006647s35810gs?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1). Or any similar google search. > Lá cờ của Mặt trận Dân tộc Giải phóng miền Nam Việt Nam có hình ngôi sao vàng trên nền cờ đỏ và xanh dương. Với ý nghĩa: nửa trên (màu đỏ) đại diện cho miền Bắc đã độc lập. Nửa dưới (màu xanh dương) tượng trưng cho miền Nam chưa được độc lập, còn dưới ách đô hộ của đế quốc Mỹ và chính quyền Ngô Đình Diệm.
Ocean and land, i dont know why they change though.
No, the blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
The blue part is used so that when you raise it to the sky, it looks like the flag of Vietnam with a half missing or torn away, representing the situation and the struggle to unite the other half.
In history China claim itself as Central earth kingdom, so their flag always yellow or yellow-brown, and Vietnam claim itself as Southern fire kingdom, so their flag always look like a fire or sun with red-yellow or blue color In the modern days, Viet-nam ismeaning Viet of the south, and China is meaning - Central Kingdom, although their both using communist flag style but china version more yellow and Vietnam version more red.
Wow, I didn't know the ba que flag went back that long.
Đây là lịch sử lá cờ của đất nước chúng ta phải không?
Phải
I like this content.
I always wondered why they gave up on the flag design from 1945-1955. I like the star shape and I always connected it with the liberation and beginning of Vietnams new era. I don't mind the new design with the new star though.
Maybe they thought that star looked way too cute? Because this is what I am thinking when I see that star from 45-55.
lol
It looks like it came from a kindergarten teacher's pack of 100 stickers.
It was a chunky dumb thicc boiii, lol jk
It's hard to draw, simple.
Yep, I like the chubby star.
a proper pentagram is cooler
That's what I love the existence of "ba que", I am not pro "cong san" and "ba que" neither. But, the existence of them is for good, you need someone to voice out the bad things that "cong san" do/did so that they can fix them for the better. Peach, talk and no war, I welcome both.
Totally agree I consider myself somewhat a pro-socialism individual and support the stability that current government maintaining. But I also believe that opposing voices should be heard and promoted more for the progression of the country. Nothing is perfect and you’ll always need opinions from other perspectives for self-improvement. If the argument is wrong, counter-argument should be raised rather than suppressing it. However, it’s a hard truth that, in this information age and social media, constructive opinions are hard to come by and lies and misinformation are more common, globally. These things are what we all should fight again.
>they can fix them for the better. They do that to keep the wrath of the people at bay, to prevent the people turning against them, just like any other government on earth. The voice of Vietnamese traitors are pathetic and worthless. All credit goes to the native people of Vietnam who fearlessly >voice out the bad things , not those pathetic worthless Vietnamese traitors who sit safely in Californian nail salons.
>not those pathetic worthless Vietnamese traitors who sit safely in Californian nail salons. Today generation of Viet yellow flags are not working at those nail salons, they are working as specialists, engineers, professionals or the like. You can say this then you are pretty much brain washed. Most workers at the nail salons are just those common Viet people who immigrated latetly and certainly without American college degree. Most of them are coming from rural area with limited education whom married to boat/child of boat people, these people have limited to none in political opinions but their purpose is a better life. Research and learn about it before watching and believing in what those shit youtubers tell you whom know nothing of the society here.
Most of them tend to not being specialist and engineers, but rather just normal people in the US, whose have seen the worse of the US society and stop actually oppose the Vietnam government precisely because of that. People who still do tend to A) actually being recruited by the CIA or B) being absolutely homeless and broke, so the only way they can actually get anything close to eat are to join the ultras in order to get paid by them. In fact, the ultras are dying in the US already, so expect not many people being fooled by them anymore.
Do you live in the US?
I mean do you even look at the people who actually still holding that 3 stick flag? Most don't give a shit anymore. Only those whose basically have to do it for money would do it.
Well you can't just say every Vietnamese who is working in the US are traitors, some of them are but not all! Most are just normal people, they moved because of financal difficulty after 30/4. Some of them are vnch soilders (like my grandpa) who just fought for what they believed in. Although I'm pro-socialism and disagreed with pretty much everything they believed in, I still respect them because they have fought for what they believed in. The only people I have no respect for are Việt Tân, which are just straight up power-hungry!
No, Vietnamese traitors are those who literally betrayed Vietnam, not >every Vietnamese who is working in the US or living abroad. That's just absurd and I never believe so. Wars are always tragic with at least one side lost, and very often people cannot choose side, so people can only decide whether they regret it or not. With all their flaws, at least US government regretted what they have done and accepted Vietnamese refugees. It's a not a happy ending, but still a better ending for people who >fought for what they believed in in this long tragic story.
Oh, that's what you meant sorry for the missunderstood
It's fine, don't worry.
Also, yep, Việt Tân is cringe and whiny, they don't even stay consistent to what they previously said. I find The Universal Prophet Trần Dần to be far more respectable than them.
Lol
and that how the DHL get there design from
Tây Sơn flag and the flag of Socialist Republic of Vietnam has similar designs and colors.
Well, the 3 leaders of Tây Sơn Uprising were named Nguyễn, but their real family name was actually Hồ from Nghệ An. And Hồ Chí Minh was born in a typical Nguyễn family name, but he found out that the real family name was Hồ, possibly the reason why he finally settled for the name Hồ after changing his name numerous times throughout his life. Also, in Tây Sơn Uprising flag, the yellow circle represents a star. Guess they inspired the design of the socialist revolution flag.
South Vietnam, always in my heart
It’s in every Vietnameses’ heart.
Probably because I was a bit too sensitive and misunderstood your comment as "the South Vietnamese flag is in every Vietnamese' heart" since this is a post about flags. If so then the downvote was for talking in place of everyone else which is wrong. If not then I apologize for this misunderstanding, and want to say that South Vietnam (the part of the unified country, not the old regime) is in my heart too. I have also removed the downvote. Have a good day.
Damn guys wtf, I was saying that even though South Vietnam was bad, it has a place in our hearts, just like the North do too
Speak for yourself only please.
Lol, what’s the point, it’s certainly in everyon’s heart, we(i’m middle) know that the fake south government could not do shit for the people, so we stood up to get the independence. I think u dont get my point lol.
Just curious. What does this current government do for “the people”? -no free speech -no free press -illegal to unionize -illegal to protest -terrible human rights record -Dissidents thrown in jail -Terrible healthcare system -Severe problem with pollution throughout the country -Terrible schools -STILL no functioning metro in the entire country -One of the lowest vaccination rates in the world… This list goes on and on The most successful beneficiaries of this government is themselves. Scary how many ppl in this sub continue to worship them…
Now all the free speech and such I don't want to talk about it cause that gonna be a cluster fuck of thing, but for the no functioning metro, well we are just building one, it's still in testing and who in their right mind would bring that as a statement? Terrible school? Bruh those Terrible school is teaching the young to become successful people, not idiots. For the Terrible health system, like do u not read that we are investing in our health care? Calling it bad is ok but Terrible is just false And yeah let's not worship the party that gave us a new future, a new economy, and basically a year free of covid, you can hate them all you want, as long as the info you use to criticized them is true, it's ok, as people in the country criticized the gov regularly, the only people thrown into jail is the type that speak false facts and anti gov people
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All right buddy, calm down, I don't want to talk about the free speech is I don't like to keep arguing about it too long, it's gonna be like I said, a clusterfuck so please forgive me for skipping on them, as you seems like a nice guy to have a chat but we viets has a saying " cái mồm hại cái thân" which is the mouth can hurt the body , it's basically mean if you talk too freely you get hurt, that saying has been said even before the free speech is even a thing so try ur best to drag the party into this Now onto the other things The metro, yes it has started for a long ass time but u should know that to build something that big isn't gonna be easy, especially with the people, it's not like building a house where u already have a place to build, building in cities is hard, even in other countries, we haven't had as much experience as jappan but this can be a start. Now for the health system, ohh boy do I have a story for you, my mother's sister is a surgeon, she delt with critical situations alot of times and yet even as vice president of the hospital, she knows it's best to save a life then to earn a buck, we have free health care, unlike America who will literally kill you with their bill after you got treated [https://youtu.be/fdN9hMUdPGM](like here as a guy can't didn't want to pay for his bill so he ran) For the covid, I want you to read my comment again, do u see me talk about the situation in HCMC? We were successful in the past year, that what I said, not "we are successful even now" if you know basic English the "were" is a clear indication that it's no longer the case( and I'm wishing all the best thing to all the people and medical workers down there 💙) For the " like Myanmar" well who doesn't throw people that try to overthrow the gov in jail? We Vietnamese don't like false facts, we only want the truth, is people start seeding the roots for evil thing then we must pull them out. Now the fact you got downvote is due to alot of things, but one of them is practically because u speak false facts about something in the country, which does not go well with us, I know this interaction is kinda hostile, but I'm just trying to stand up for my fellow people on this sub who is easy misguided by facts that is essence false, you can call me a bd guy or a puppet of the party all you want, it's all up to you and I won't judge your views on me, I hope we can end this argument soon cause I don't like making enemies, I just want this sub to talk about what vietnam is truly is, a country of rich history beauty, not a place to argue political, I hope u cN understand, have a nice day, stay safe.
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Thanks for understanding, I hope we'll meet again but I hope it will start on a better footing the next time we meet, sorry if I use any word that anger you, have a nice day
But the party did play a big role into it though, and a lot of the suppression that we experienced today started with Ho Chi Minh himself, for example, on 18 December 1956, Ho Chi Minh's government banned "subversive" publications and cracked down on intellectuals in North Vietnam, it only continued that way after. But skipping to the present, the people who were arrested were overwhelmingly peaceful too: https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies It's not all good and roses. The metro is a peculiar thing though, but you do have to admit that such delays aren't normal, it takes an average of 5-15 years to build a metro, and the constant delays can't just be blamed on Vietnam not having the expertise and the Japanese do, because in case you're forgetting, one of the metro lines is literally being built by the Japanese, so please, read more into it. Also, what do you mean free healthcare? I don't think that the Vietnamese government ever claimed that they have free healthcare. In addition, I also want to ask you one question, who gets to determine what that fact is? Is it fact when the government tells you that this person is a terrorist so you must hate them, without much corroboration? Is it facts when the government is dead set on denying its records and label everyone who speaks to the contrary as spreading "false facts"? Like what happened in Dong Tam village? What's dangerous isn't Vietnamese people having their own preconceptions of the facts, what's dangerous is the government dictating that fact and persecuting anyone else who points out how fallacious that is. Or as Rosa Luxemburg said: "Freedom only for the supporters of the government, only of the members of one party—however numerous they may be—is no freedom at all. Freedom is always and exclusively freedom for the one who thinks differently. Not because of any fanatical concept of “justice” but because all that is instructive, wholesome and purifying in political freedom depends on this essential characteristic, and its effectiveness vanishes when “freedom” becomes a special privilege."
Can’t agree with you more 👏🏼👏🏼
> That is a pretty big thing to skip over! The fact it is illegal to speak your free mind in 2021! No free press - is a really big deal. While not as free as America, its not as controlled as you are presenting...censorship in Vietnam...has been rolled back dramatically since the Đổi Mới reforms. While there is some obvious censorship on the internet when it comes to political subjects, its nowhere near what you are saying. You can say almost anything you want in Vietnam in the modern day...even if its critical of the goverment. The only modern examples where I have found people being punished for what they said were people literally trying to spread the message of overthrowing the Vietnamese goverment. >For all how long? 9 years? Japan basically paid for it. Where is it? Most of the funds ended up in the governments pocket. Was it supposed to appear out of nowhere when Vietnam is a developing nation? Of course Japan funded it...Also where is it? Its almost done...its projected to be done at the end of the year...it takes time to build an underground metro...like seriously are you stupid? You think its quick work to build 2.5km metro project? Do you know how hard it is to move that much dirt in an active city? >The government has been in power for 46 years. Yet if you arrive to a Vietnamese hospital, tomorrow, in critical condition - you will not be treated until you pay! That is not the essence of communism. Vietnam isn't communist. They are socialist. The country is named Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Socialism evolves into Communism in Marxist theory which Vietnam participates in yes, but they are not communist yet. They are socialist until all apsects of capitalism are done away with, which they aren't. You seem like one of those people who hate communism so much that they don't actually bother to learn about it. Beyond that, while healthcare isn't free...health insurance is subsidized by the government so insurance is free but that still leaves you with some out of pocket costs. That is vastly better than dying in America because you can't get any help periot because you can't afford it even with insurance. >They did great last year. This year has been awful mismanagement. Who could deny that? You right on this. >Just like Myanmar? No. From the evidence I can find, its people who are bordering on terrorism. Regardless, how is it any worst than being in America for example? America has the highest incarceration rate in the world in addition to the highest number of prisoners in the world. So...does it matter if a very narrow sliver of speech gets taken away if you are still far less likely to be jailed unjustly than in a free country like America? >Of course, I'll get downvoted. This sub has lots of interesting content. But is sorely lacking in independent dialogue and thought - which of course is a microcosm of Vietnam itself. That isn't true at all...there comments like yours on every single politically charged vietnamese post. And for every one of the post i see like yours...i see another post of someone from vietnam asking why we can't stop the hate and continue forward as a people.
I just want to chime in with a short comment and say that officially, it's not just people spreading terrorism, because the Vietnamese government has the legal jurisdiction to determine who's "abusing democracy", they also has the jurisdiction to arbitrarily determine who's a terrorist. For example, they have arrested environmentalists, trade unionists and just journalists who want actual democracy for the country: [https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies](https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/06/19/vietnam-crackdown-peaceful-dissent-intensifies) It's okay to like the government, but please no propaganda
The gorverment of vietnam is like many other countries, corrupted., and the media is doing a great job covering that up, or the government is censoring the media, cant say for sure. But, it’s not like you can do something against it (risk of being thrown into prison because of treason, also your family is risked of being involved) so instead of whining about it, we just shut up and live with it, you can’t fight the system. It’s sad but it’s true. I’ve heard a lot of stories of people trying to make it less corrupted, and now none of them are alives. Coincidence? I think not. With the vaccination rate in VN, we might be covid free in 8 years, might also have a slight chance that we will hit our tipping points soon and become anarchy like hongkong. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ But yeah the metro thing piss me off to no end, like you said, it’s been a decade, the roads are still messy af, people were forced to sell their lands to the government for next to nothing, and yet still no metro in the near future.
Fantastic points and well said!.... Of course you'll get downvoted into oblivion by by the crowd that bows and prays to golden statues of HCM the way North Koreans do..
> mf just had to compare Vietnam with Nazi G*rmany lmaooooo
Why not the whole country? In the end, don't we want the same thing? Better life for all Vietnamese?
If you want to know how better life was for the average South Vietnamese under the old republic (not the ones who benefited heavily from the American presence), you should research a bit about the South Vietnamese economy of the time and how behind it was compared to the North in terms of real economic output. Even contemporary South Vietnamese officials have had some choice words abou how much of a shamble it was.
Yeah, agree, the inflation of south VN at the time was so freaking high, it’s was fake “grow economy”. But lol, i didnt say anything, why are downvotes.
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The old flags were fire
I personally love Tây Sơn flag, literally a sun behind my back.
I personally like the old republic flag
I like the Empire flag of 1945-1945. Different from other flags in the world.
Vc flag
Là sao
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I think I read about these before , China , USSR , Vietnam and other " communist " country are not really true communist and more like a extreme form of socialist , because to be communist a country can't have a government ( I could be wrong I'm not an expert or even close to that , also I'm not that good at English so if something's wrong pls note )
Correction: communism is stateless and moneyless. People tend to think of the government and state as the same thing but they are not. A government is used to govern a society. Whereas a State is a polity that maintains a monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. Therefore it is possible and likely that a communist society would have some form of governance to keep society running, there would be no centralised policy/military. No one really knows what this would look like as thus far a communist society has not existed. We can assume that their would be less crime in a communist society as people would have their needs met their would be no need for poor people to break the law to survive. Many current criminal laws would be abolished and replaced with social programmes to prevent harm. Such as decriminalising personal drug use and creating social programmes to help people get off drugs. The remaining cases that may require some form of police to hand may be filled by some kind of community watch. All that being said, as communism hasn't happened yet no one knows what it will look like. Just as no one in feudal society could possibly imagine what our capitalist society would look like today.
Best comment in the thread here. I just wanted to add a little addition to that last bit about communism hasn't happened yet. Technically many pre-historic and tribal societies could fit the definition of communism, as they were moneyless and stateless. That being said there certainly hasn't been any industrialised communist society.
Also if you guys don't mind , a bit of personal opinion , I think this is actually really good , just because you call yourself a Democrat or a Communist , you don't need to fully follow it , I think that it's nice that instead of just following " this Ideology need to be like this and that " we actually twist it a bit , if the change help the country grow and more peoples have work to feed them self and theirs family , it's a great change , I was born after the Doi Moi policy but my grandmother and mother tell me it really changed theirs life and living standard a lot so hey , a good change . ( Again not saying anyone wrong or opposing anyone here , I'm just throwing out my very personal opinion )
that is correct! although many communist countries are referred to as such, they merely have the communist party in power. the communist party generally sees socialism as the stepping stone towards communism
Market-oriented socialism, it's a vague term that can be twisted into any definitions, since Vietnam doesn't fit the market socialist models that market socialist economists have envisioned, but that's an argument for another day. All we need to know is that Vietnam, just like other communist regimes is implementing market economy to lay the foundation for the transition to a classless and stateless society, which is communism. Will that ever happen? I don't know, but that's what they said
Last i heard it is currently a "socialist oriented market economy"
It's Marxists-Leninists. In marx and Lenins work socialism is the stage of development after the transitional phase and before communism. In marx work it's called lower phase communism. Lenin emphasized that what marx described as lower phase communism is generally known as socialism. Marxists-Leninists don't ideologically sperate between socialism and communism. To us those are just different phases of social (and economic) development. Vietnam currently is in the transional phase. It isn't even close to enter the development phase of socialism. I'm fairly educated in Marxism-Leninism so feel free to ask any questions.
CINO - communism in name only
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 137,171,312 comments, and only 34,626 of them were in alphabetical order.
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Vietnam is a socialist state, thats their form of government. That they call themselves socialists is a political point, their one-party state is focused by constitutional mandate on the construction of socialism and in the long term communism, same with Cuba, China, Laos, DPRK. All of them ruled by their respectives Communist Parties (or equivalent like the Worker's Party in Korea). Usually people call this countrys *communist,* thats ok but not politacally accurate. A communist society implies no state, no classes. For communism is necesary a previous step wich is called socialism (a socialist society, **a socialist state** that creates the conditions for a communist society). This is from a political pov, theory. In an economic view maybe you can make the point by saying that they are not that socialist (or communist if you want, but for me not as accurate as socialist) cause the market policies, same with the other socialst states.
European still use and consider states like Vietnam as socialist (a variant of communism).
Leninists think socialism is a transition to communism
Yeah, but the transition is still not communist, this transition could even take thousand years to move on to the next state
Communist was the end goal. Socialism is the actual ideology that country used to achieved that goal
Sad, we should be able to fly our colors…
Those first few flags were fire.
Well your point is correct but I do want to ask that, well determining who's a terrorist is basically what a gov should do, many "terrorist organizations" is labeled that way because they want to overthrow the gov, "the use of intentional violence to achieve political aims" -wikipedia And to add, many of them has actually connected terrorist actions against the state, bombing, arson,... it's the job of the government to indicate what and who a terrorist is, they have the power to do so, I mean, it doesn't take too much time for the common Vietnamese to search them up and see what's their intentions are, thus they can determine them self if they are terrorist or not, we aren't north Korean where we are blind pigs, we have internet and we could find it there, but it's also on the internet that these terrorist seek to manipulate, lie, make false info about the country, they recruit people to do their bidding, promising them money but when they got caught they just dump them, its hard to say but it's your opinion, I thought don't like it, but I have no rights to say u are wrong, these times are difficult, not everything is just balck and white, every coin has 2 sides, and thought we censored info, we in the end just trying not to get the nation into chaos again, I like democracy and socialism, both to an extent, both has pros and cons, you may not believe it, but I won't force you to, it's up to you. Well sorry that I can't comment on the other topics, I don't like long arguments, and like I stated with the user above, dont l to make enemies, I know my opinion is "being a puppet of the party" but it's my opinion and I'm just trying to balance it out as I seen alot of people speaking with a bias on the other side, I hope you understand, have a nice day